A Zelda Dungeon Maker - Would it Work?

[@MonsterMaze]

Have a great weekend everyone! Feel free to share your thoughts, ideas and suggestions about a hypothetical Zelda Dungeon Maker!

[@Tazerboy_10]

Yeah!

[@cycho651]

Well, there kind of is a zelda dungeon maker. you can build your own zelda game with the pixel game maker mv by kadokawa.

[@seanpope1890]

the stairs connected starting with closest first then next closest and so on that was my biggest complaint about that system but also if your looking for the best dungeon maker, minecraft can't be beat

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

A super boss gauntlet with every room containing a random boss from across the franchise.

[@DuelScreen]

Love this! A lot of people have thought about this idea but you went and created a level designer as a concept. I'd love to see your code if you would make that available. I knew about the door problem. The solution I came up with was to make sure the rooms were modular in size so 1x1, 2x1, 3x4, whatever but the doors must always be centered in their block. Doors without connecting doors could be traps like the doors that flatten the player in Luigi's Mansion (I think). Another possibility would be a requirement that if you place a door a new room attached to the other side is automatically spawned. I think there are a few smart ways to make it work intuitively. Spelunky is a good source for how to layer randomness that isn't obvious to the player and creates lots of interesting interactions.

[@michaelkaduck1915]

A game I think could be looked at is Four Swords Adventures. That game's multi-player mechanics and the way that its puzzles are crafted in a 2D space legitimately amazed me. As for styles, I would love to have bosses from the Original Zelda reimagined like Super Mario Maker did with its enemies.

[@devonm042690]

I think Four Swords Adventures is also worth looking at in terms of equipping the player. It'd be much less hassle for everyone if the player could only have one item at a time, with the items being on pedestals and swapping new ones with older ones.

[@ethanh8783]

It'd be great if this hypothetical game brought back my boys Aquamentus and Digdogger.

[@tlk777]

ah yes FSA is so good please. I would play so much of that.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Aquamentus in the Minish Cap or Link Between Worlds style would be awesome

[@devonm042690]

@@wolfetteplays8894 And don't forget, all of the NES Zelda bosses appeared in Oracle of Seasons with different appearances, different attack capabilities, and in most cases more involved strategies to defeat them. Given this precedent, it'd make sense that this would carry into other styles as well. There's also the possible intrigue that anything reimagined in the Minish Cap style could theoretically be expanded from that into Wind Waker style, considering that Minish Cap's graphics were Wind Waker-style graphics turned into a spriteset.

[@CZsWorld]

I didn't think it was possible but you've convinced me.

[@lyrebirb83]

I knew it was possible. I don't think it could be done in a player friendly way. How wrong was I?

[@slayr4170]

One game I like is Fortnite. In It’s creative mode you can do literally anything and it’s super user friendly

[@tumultuousv]

@@slayr4170 uhm

[@Pigeon_loll]

@@tumultuousv ?

[@lightestseed]

Another cool thing that would be implemented in this hypothetical game is that the editor gets to choose how many hearts or items (hookshot, bow, flippers, power glove, etc.) the player has before starting. Another thing is that there could be a series of dungeons like the worlds in Mario maker, and the items you get in a dungeon carry over to the next

[@thegreatmajora5089]

First off, MAD props to the visual stuff put in this video, it's all really clean. As a thing I'd love to see added to a Zelda Dungeon maker, I'd take the way Wallmasters and boss keys were handled in Spirit Tracks. Making you carry the giant key across the dungeon, limiting your options while enemies will beeline for the key to bring it back to where you took it from is a very fun way to shake up the dungeon, and could make it two whole experiences in one.

[@shroobify]

Bring back the SandWand and patrolling Phantoms(all versions) as well.

[@shroobify]

And maybe the Magnetic Gloves, and Rocs Feather.

[@thegreatmajora5089]

@@shroobify DUDE I love Phantoms ! Having a dungeon split between a sneaking section, and then giving you a way to deal with them could be so cathartic

[@bastian3461]

that could even just be a specificity of the style like "oo you get to use the DS zelda games style" and its caracteristic is the key holding and you could probs even bring all of those fun mechanics from the DS games like with the grapplin hook mechanics or the ennemy possession you could even get the special movement though i think some players would avoid the style entirely for that movement and combat

[@thegreatmajora5089]

@@bastian3461 I think that would be the trickiest part, translating the DS games' quirks without forcing it to be touch-controlled, but I'd love things like the whip, the sand rod, the whirlwind, all of those

[@metaltom2003]

If anyone is interested, there is a "Zelda maker" out there that has existed since the early 2000s, called Zelda Classic. It may not be the most user-friendly program to pick up, but once you learn what you can do the possibilities are nearly endless.

[@bagelmaster2]

I was looking to see if anyone else here knew about ZC. I've played with it on-and-off for years and while it's pretty clunky at times, it a lot of the stuff covered in this video is possible in some way through the quest editor's tools. If you just want to play some well-made Zelda 1 styled fan games with better graphics, you can. As a bonus, it's still in development by a small team to this very day, so many of the program's quirks are being streamlined with time.

[@WideMouth]

Here’s a thought: what if instead of making a Zelda Maker just a non-canon spin-off, you instead use it to explain *why* some of the dungeons exist in the Zelda series. You could play as Sheikah architects and mages constructing and testing dungeons designed to test future incarnations of Link. It would still probably be non-canon, but at least there would be a lore explanation for the game.

[@KryyssTV]

Nintendo didn't object to Tunic which was clearly a non-brand Legend of Zelda since it was recently released on Switch. So it would be easy to do a non-canon dungeon editor for Legends of the Forest with an elf wearing a green tunic. Then have mod support for different tilesets where someone else releases a Zelda tileset mod to turn it back into Legend of Zelda thereby freeing MonsterMaze from any liability of copyrighted material.

[@PNWAffliction]

zelda dungeon architect, now that'd be rad. Curious is the trap-maker's art... his efficacy unwitnessed by his own eyes.

[@userPeterSteves]

Makes no sense

[@haileeraestout5567]

Lol I'd Make A Dungeon Where Zelda's Locked In A Castle Full Of 100 Demon King Demises (Link Would Hate That)🤣

[@desertyoshi_plays]

This is actually super detailed and easy to understand! I would like many of the features you mentioned if a Zelda Maker were to be made, however I think there should still be a node based option similar to Game Builder Garage, for those that can understand it. Just make it an option in some "Advanced Settings" menu. And as for the styles they could choose, I've had many ideas in the past. The Original Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, Minish Cap/Four Swords and A Link Between Worlds. Heck, they could have do Link's Awakening Remake. Are you listening Nintendo?

[@Papierkorb2292]

If there would be a second option for the puzzle logic, there might as well be a third option to directly code in python. The problem with multiple options is, that a voting system would privilege dungeons made with the advanced settings. An example of this is the Portal 2 editor, where most popular levels use parts that weren't originally in the game.

[@coreblaster6809]

@@Papierkorb2292 A good level is a good level, it's just that people who are interested in making good levels are also interested in making their own custom stuff. That is why the most prominent portal maps don't just use ingame stuff as much. But because zelda maker would appeal to more people than the portal maker, which is pretty hard to use in comparison to something like mario maker, I think there would be enough people making good stuff with the base tools, it wouldn't just be how you describe.

[@mywifesboyfriend5558]

Nintendo's lawyers are listening....

[@adithya260]

Wow this is one of if not the highest effort video of yours and that's saying a lot. Also i thought a dungeon maker would be quite straightforward but you bring up good points regarding the challenges.

[@louiseb3146]

Sorry? What about Life as a Bokoblin? In its making of you can see how much of dedication and work he put into it.

[@nojuscat1583]

@@louiseb3146 life as a bokoblin is my favourite Zelda video

[@onewingedmoogle]

When doors are misaligned, the game could ask which room should take priority and auto-correct the door in the other room.

[@MichaelHeide]

With an additional option to split the difference.

[@JamesTDG]

Exactly my thoughts

[@PhantomOfficial07]

Or maybe when the first door is placed a second door gets automatically placed in the room the door leads to

[@JeffACornell]

Or, keeping things simple and visual without text pop-ups, just have the most recently placed room take priority. If you want it the other way around, just pick up the other room for a split second and put it back down again. If you have some complicated arrangement of rooms and can't get the priority the way you want it just by placing them in a certain order, you can always manually tweak one or two doors yourself.

[@fishfuud3]

I could imagine coding and logic being handled in a similar way to the Little Big Planet games,where dragging and dropping connections is simple and intuitive but also offers a few additional options in a submenu. LBP2 added more complex logic tools like AND/OR gates and counters which were done with some clever use and combination of simplier objects in the first game. A system like that would allow simple actions to be made quickly and easily but still leave the door open for more complex contraptions and puzzles for those who want to delve deeper.

[@pacomatic9833]

Definitely.

[@8ternalife]

I was just going to comment that inspiration from LBP should be used! They could use something very similar to the selector tool in the popit where you can connect things such as a button and a door with a "wire".

[@RickRaptor105]

The custom chamber maker of Portal 2 does exactly what you hypothesized for the "connecting puzzles" idea. However, the lines are visible to the player, too, so they'll already know "if I activate this switch, it will spawn this/open this", they just need to figure out HOW to do it.

[@josephjarosch8739]

Fun fact: There are (sort of) two unoficial ones already. One, Zelda Classic, is a meticuloous remake the NES Zelda and Link to the Past with a level edditor that lets you make entire games more-or-less from scratch, and Solarus, which started out as a Link to the Past re-make and has since morphed into an entire ARPG game-engine. Classic in particular still has wholly new games being released for it.

[@Semicolon7645]

I messed with Zelda Classic a ton high school and it's definitely a lot to learn.

[@userPeterSteves]

Those are old games,we can't do twilight princess dungeons or orcseina of time dungeons,more modern games because there is so much going on and each of those dungeons are dufferent

[@mywifesboyfriend5558]

Nintendo's lawyers are already grabbing their briefcases as we speak....

[@disappointedcreeper]

Have you seen Portal 2's level editor? It works similarly to what you are suggesting.

[@MonsterMaze]

I have not, I only played the first Portal. But now I really want to!

[@disappointedcreeper]

@@MonsterMaze Portal 2's level editor is really intuitive, especially with the connections and the object variations

[@joejoemojo]

its just crazy how much work you put into these videos. like the fact that you coded your own level editor, and those amazing animations at 12:04. looks like a lot of work and clean animation for just a small visual detail, like wow big respect. no clue how you do it so consistently but keep it up man

[@Rubyduby1057]

Loved that Xenoblade 3 part. Definitely caught me off guard, but the amount of times I heard that playing through the game- 😂

[@Josh-Man]

I know, that was so funny! 🤣 I for sure have been enjoying Xenoblade chronicles 3! 🥰

[@kuks0453]

HEAR THAT NOAH

[@clementp.5187]

I remember trying to make my own Zelda on RPG Maker when I younger, with some ALTTP assets that were available at the time ! I’ve been hoping for an official Zelda Maker ever since. I just remembered a mobile game called Badland that provided a good editor to make your own levels. You could set triggers, change the background and foreground, ect… Stuff I wished Mario Maker had !

[@MonsterMaze]

Yes! I tried it too. The engine wasn't all that suitable for it (at least not the version I used way back when). You had to jump through a lot of hoops, especially to get the combat somewhat functional. I don't know about current day versions, but the older ones were clearly designed for turn-based combat. Not real time. But it still worked okay. I had lots of fun with it and tought me the basics of game design ^^

[@Nastara]

Search Zelda Classic. That think is a bonkers Zelda 1 engine!

[@TJDious]

It'd have to be limited to the original Zelda style and LttP. The trick would be allowing simplicity and complexity on a sliding scale.

[@Tazerboy_10]

True

[@Navar4477]

OG Zelda, LttP, and Minish Cap 100%. Could even have PH, ST, or ALBW styles thrown in too

[@dracquiteur.4730]

@@Navar4477 and the chunky GameBoy pixelart of LA/OoS/OoA too!

[@Navar4477]

@@dracquiteur.4730 damn, and I love the oracle games too! How did I forget those lol

[@CaptainDoge1]

Absolutely loved this video. Pretty much all the ideas I’ve had for a Zelda Dungeon Maker were mentioned and expanded upon. The coding stuff and how it would fundamentally work as well had me really interested.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

Wizard101's Castle magic and certain objects you can place in your castles have a very intuitive interface. The pet crumbs that control pet behavior when you place them in a room are a pretty good example of how to tackle a Zelda Maker type of deal.

[@MMDelta9]

I've wanted a Zelda Dungeon Maker ever since Mario Maker dropped.

[@nolabratteig988]

they did that in links awakening remake

[@tumultuousv]

@@nolabratteig988 yeah but it's not very complex and not a full game/ shareable

[@pirateraider1708]

I've wanted one ever since I started thinking up LOZ style games that I wanted to make. (And that was long before Mario Maker.)

[@nolabratteig988]

@@tumultuousv yeah but it's a great starting place.

[@DoomRater]

Zelda Classic is a thing that has existed for a long, long time

[@BrüllHeuler3248]

There’s a game on steam called „super dungeon maker“ and I think it perfectly shows how a dungeon maker should work.

[@MartKart8]

I've noticed a lot of the time, when Nintendo puts hints into their games, a lot of people choose to ignore them and complain about being stuck, like if a room had 2 blocks, the player tends to go somewhere else, and doesn't try to see if either block can be pushed. I've noticed similar things when Zelda tubers do lets plays of Zelda games.

[@Logicalleaping]

Zelda and Doom have trained me to push/interact every object in a room if it has a locked door. I will not proceed without my answers.

[@MonsterMaze]

During let's plays I do at least understand it, since they are essentially multitasking. Playing, talking, trying to entertain the audience etc. But yeah, some details are more easily overlooked than others ^^

[@caslin2018]

Mega man maker has a REALLY good design philosophy when it comes to conjoined rooms, basically theres a button on the edge of each screen that either separates or conjoins rooms, this could also be applied to zelda maker by making the rooms not created with a map menu (which would be kinda tedious) but allowed to instantly create rooms by placing tiles next to another room Levels can just simply be switched with a small menu

[@SparksOpus]

5:51 ONE OF US! :D Fantastic Video, as always tbh. Love how much effort you put into the videos. I really respect that :) I'd love if Nintendo somehow finds a way to do a working Zelda Maker. I'd like to imagine that a game like that sells well too.

[@MonsterMaze]

MVP Lanz approves!

[@ganondork]

I think Link's Awakening's dungeon building system proves something like this could work, but it would definitely need a lot of tweaking to make as creative and fun as Super Mario Maker. If, for example, the game only gave you options to create within a set dungeon layout, it would completely ruin the concept. It's like if Super Mario Maker gave you levels which you could only add enemies to. If Nintendo wanted a 'Zelda Dungeon Maker' to cultivate a vast community who makes different genres of levels like they do in Super Mario Maker, then the game would probably have to be more like a sandbox.

[@blacklynx2526]

I’d love a Zelda dungeon maker. We have seen it work with Mariomaker, I’m sure they can make it work with Zelda. As all ways, I love the video.

[@spencerlay3318]

Your video is SO freakin Beautifully done!! I’ve never played it myself but there’s a game on steam called “Super Dungeon Maker” that seems to do a pretty good job of being the same kind of thing you’re talking about here. Maybe worth looking at!

[@Magnymbus]

One suggestion for accessibility vs versatility: beginner friendly prefabs, with the option to customize things further with advanced components. It might also be fun to have the connections and logic be done with the wires you showed, and some kind of logic gates, similar to Little Big Planet's editor. They could be represented on top of the map with a toggleable layer. It would be useful to show adjacent rooms while in the editor. You could grey them out and turn the cursor into 👁️ or ✏️ when the cursor is over the room to indicate quickly switching to that room. It would also solve the problem of door placement, as you would easily be able to see where the doors are in another room, maybe even have a transparent red overlay with ⚠️🚪 on the UI layer where there are doors that don't connect. Change the cursor to 🔧 when you hover over it, and when you select opens a small menu with something like 🪄 autofix 🛠️ manual 📤 move 🗑️ delete I enjoy UI design, even if I have a hard time with the tools available in most engines.

[@MonsterMaze]

Great insights!

[@davidn2612]

This is hands down the coolest Zelda idea I’ve ever heard

[@RoninCatholic]

"More locks than there are keys to open them" is actually potentially useful for good (if unforgiving) puzzles. There should be a reminder if you try to compile a level and there are fewer keys than there are locks or vice-versa. It should also be possible to have chests that are locked by keys, to have the Boss Key/Big Key required for certain doors or chests, or to have the Magic Key from the first game hidden somewhere in a dungeon.

[@andrewsprojectsinnovations6352]

14:39 I have a couple of ideas: (Edit: Monster Maze went on to basically describe #1, just explained better) 1. Since it would be top-down anyway, maybe users could be given a tool to "wire" interactive elements together, and the editor UI would render those "wires" as lines, maybe aligned with the grid to improve readability. Even if elements can only interact if they're on the same floor, that wouldn't be an unfair restriction IMO to keep it simple and understandable. 2. Users could assign interactive elements to separate "channels," maybe indicated by numbers or memorable symbols from the series (sort of like Mario Maker's doors with the card suits, just player-assignable). Elements on the same "channel" would be able to interact. This is closer to how I see the system working "under the hood." Either way I can completely see the interactions being pre-programmed. For the 2D Zelda games they seem pretty clearly defined: switches (of all kinds), pressure plates, and enemies are intuitively "triggers" while barred doors, traps, chests, and valuables make more sense as "reactions." All players need to do is link them together as desired. Sure this would be a bit more complicated than Mario Maker, but not too much; it's still far simpler than some other popular creative games out there (cough redstone cough) and fans are still eager to learn their systems. Besides, I think the fans calling for a Zelda Dungeon Maker would have no problem with the slight bump in complexity. It's hard to be a Zelda fan without a love of puzzle solving! Alongside that, you still have good old fashioned locks and keys for those who don't want to mess with the systems described above. Enemies could carry items like in Mario Maker, including small/boss keys able to open their respective door types. In fact I'm pretty sure Mario Maker already had locks and keys, though only of one type.

[@dragonmaster1500]

I really like how you've layed out the idea for a Zelda Dungeon maker concept. 10:18 What about a feature that automatically snaps the exits of two rooms together in the map editor, with the option to turn snapping on or off in the UI? That would let you do custom room designs, and if you have door snapping on it would automatically make sure that the rooms would connect properly. 11:58 Whit regards to puzzle Scenarios, what about an option which gives the dungeon creator the ability to give Link access to certain key items (Boomerang, Bombs, etc), at the start. This way, they can customize how complex they want each stage of the dungeon to be. How many, and which, key items for puzzle solving will the player have at the start? How many will they find in the dungeon? These are ideas that can really affect how complex the dungeon can be. Maybe, for an easy dungeon you only need one or two items, but for a really hard dungeon the player needs to find eight or nine key items throughout, leading them to zigzag across the structure as they open up locks and keys. Make it so they can get items 'out of order' and that can turn the dungeon into a macro level puzzle box beyond just the room sized challenges. ...Yes I do watch GMTK, can you tell?

[@MonsterMaze]

I can tell by your suggestions ^^

[@pinto5012]

Awesome visual explanations! Not sure if this was already mentioned in the comments, but there is a game out there called Super Dungeon Maker that is the closest thing to your concepts.

[@Zerolink30]

Since the LoZ: LA Remake dungeon maker was introduced, i literally thought Nintendo was going to straight up start working on the idea. But whether they did and gave up on it or didn't bother at all we'll never know unless we are told off it. But i always figured their train off thought was "Man, Mario Maker is getting a really good reception, the fans love it! Should we do Zelda next?" Like you mentioned, a Zelda Maker could end up being extremely complex depending on how much freedom we are given and the reception of LA's dungeon maker told Nintendo "this was too simplistic for our tastes", but Nintendo are wizards when it comes to this things and Mario Maker proves that, so i know they can give us the perfect Zelda Maker with enough time.

[@Kowzorz]

Maybe it's such a good idea they're saving it for the best moment to drop it. One can only hope.

[@DarknessGuard]

1. While I generally don't like reliance on HD remakes/remasters I'm fine with it if it's a major upgrade to the original like Links Awakening Remake but I would appreciate a remake for the Oracle Titles. Maybe with extra selling points like the cut content from back then brought it. 2. A "Zelda Maker" does sound enticing enough but for those who don't want to wait for Nintendo to bring one, which likely won't happen anytime soon, I would recommend googling for Zelda Classic. It's a nice 8 or 16 bit, whatever you prefer engine to create Zelda quests and already has a nice community working with it. It''s not as easily learned as Mario Maker for those who are interested in but it isn't that hard to learn either. You can quickly make a basic quest after some time. There is even a tutorial on yt by TeamUDF, though it's from a older much less friendly to learn version of it. Even I learned it and put out a (bad) quest but grew too ambitious to do my second quest but I generally have trouble motivating myself to finish things, even if I love them so no worries of it because it was complicated but you DO have to put a lot of work into preparations for grander quest with more than the standard tiles. 3. If you want to sample some of the higher tier Zelda games made with Zelda Classic, you could check out the channel of ElectrometerPrime . He did a couple of them. They show what can be possible with the engine but most of the videos are a couple of years old.

[@chrisshorten4406]

Never thought I'd meet someone else who'd played Time Splitters 2. I remember I once created an insane challenge room where you were given a 12-gauge and some ammo and you had to kill all the hybrids that constantly spawned. I never beat it. 😬

[@MonsterMaze]

TS2 has brought me so many great memories. I loved creating levels for my friends to play. Especially stealth Missions were a personal favourite of mine!

[@chrisshorten4406]

@@MonsterMaze those were always so tricky for my teenage self.

[@KingCobrAIJFS]

Quest Maker on Steam drops at the end of the month. The demo is available and its a genuine ALTTP Maker with Minish Cap elements.

[@GameEssays]

Amazing video! You're absolutely the best Zelda content creator on KZbin. The amount of insight and effort you put into each video is unreal. While I would prefer more 2D Zelda games by Nintendo than having a Zelda Dungeon Maker, it would be a great tool and fun game to have if we are mostly only getting 3D Zelda games now.

[@Logicalleaping]

Especially if we have to wait 6 years between new entries now.

[@SoulsOfWisdom]

Hey! Seeing as you seem to be interested in online Zelda maker tools. You should check Zelda Classic one day. :) Great tool, but I'll admit the editor itself is far too archaic for most people since it was originally built itself up from the Zelda 1 engine. It has over the years evolved into something far ahead of its modest origins.

[@DoubleBassX2]

Back in 2010 I played around with something called "Open Zelda" - it's rather obscure but it was pretty friggin cool for setting up your own dungeons in ALTTP style. It might still be worth checking out.

[@Grandwigg]

I'd buy this game in a heartbeat.

[@sespider]

A simple "Onion Skin" feature would help with connecting rooms. Meaning other rooms and floors are represented as a transparent overlay that can be toggled on or off. Doors can then have a rooms assigned to them. Meaning their position is less important as room boarders don't have to align, just their doors. Think of it as the two way teleportor system in Halo. This would open up potential for door based puzzles and mazes.

[@Zenith8896]

I have been waiting for this one Monster Maze my guy. This is a genius idea. I got my popcorn ready to watch this man.🍿

[@tattertot8259]

Only if this let's us save Marin from being trapped as a seagull forever !

[@BrandonBlume]

Doom 2016's SnapMap is also highly customizable (I'd argue even more customizable than Timesplitters 2's Map Editor).

[@loupandsnoop]

Zelda dungeon maker would need a totally new set of items coded for it. Maker games need items that interact with each other so that each thing can be versatile. This lets you make a large variety of levels with a small pool of items. Most Zelda enemies/items only have a couple of interactions, so enemies/items would need to be made with a whole new design philosophy.

[@buddyroach]

I made a project in unity where you can connect different objects together like doors and switches and logic gates. They all share a core value allowing this to be possible. All I gotta do now is make it to where the player can change this in game.

[@eBuddy89]

Bruh. In addition to making a well covered topic, your visuals are amazing as well. Demonstrates and emphasizes the importance of visuals for the hypothetical Maker-tool.

[@brutusmagnuson315]

I also think a Wolfenstein 3D (or Maybe even Doom) style level shaping could work. Just have rooms determined by doors attached to walls.

[@markermage]

People have already tried making "zelda maker" games. Super Dungeon Maker seems to have been completed and is available for purchase. There's also Legend Maker, which I think is still in development. Sure, these games are legally distinct from Zelda for copyright reasons, but they show a bit of what can be done. Still though, I think it'd be nice to see what it'd be like if Nintendo did it and had the different styles available. I imagine that there would be a LoZ style with simple gameplay and 8-bit graphics and an item that causes things to act like the 8-bit Breath of the Wild demo, a Link to the Past style that mimics the SNES title, a Link's Awakening style based on the gameboy game and a bit of the Oracle games where you're able to have two items equipped at a time, and a Four Swords style where you can only hold one item at a time and picking up another causes you to drop the one you're holding. That should be enough variation for the first title. Priorities will probably be focused on making sure all of the stuff from the LoZ style works in each of the other styles. This would include the bosses, which don't really need that much of a unique arena. Then features, enemies, and items from the other styles could be implemented across style modes., starting with switches from LttP. At some point, there would have to be a brand new thing introduced, possibly a brand new tool for Link to use. Despite this, I think that Nintendo might be more willing to try the idea with Kirby next. It'd be simpler to try the formula with another platformer. They could get a good variety of significantly different styles with Kirby's Dream Land having no copy abilities, Kirby's Adventure having simple copy abilities, and Kirby Super Star having abilities include multiple attacks. They can probably get players excited by introducing variations of enemies that have alternate abilities, like Bonkers wielding a parasol.

[@Hadeks_Marow]

There is a much easier way to deal with the door conundrum. You are forgetting the idea of "videogame logic". Remember how doors work in Mario Maker? You go in 1 and you enter out the other where the screen goes black for a second where you teleport to the other doorway. The problem is you are thinking of this in a real world setting where the rooms actually have to be connected. This is not the case as you do not need to show a proper transition between rooms. (Think of it like shrines in BotW, shrines aren't ACTUALLY under the map. They are in their own little loading zone bubbled off from eachother.) The biggest issue is keys. For instance, you have 1 key and 2 locked doors. Behind 1 door is a key (that is meant to be used for the second door) and an item needed for the room behind the other door. If you go in the second door first, you spend your keys in the wrong order and have no way to get that item now and are thus soft-locked. A dungeon maker would need to be able to automatically detect and prevent such puzzle-based softlocks (because a player wouldn't be able to identify if they are soft-locked or just simply can't figure out the puzzle). The problem then becomes. . . there is no way to actually do that. This is why the dungeon maker is as limited as it was. The 2 options for the keys is do an "A-STAR pathfinding"-like system (Node-based GPS to find all possible routes to a destination) and then either A: require the map maker to make sure all possible routes are possible or B: notify the player when they softlocked themselves and have them restart. Neither one of these options are fun, optimal, nor even practical.

[@petaltothemetal8293]

This was a very well made video. However, you failed to talk about the most important thing when it comes to Zelda games, that is also the primary reason why I don't think something like this could ever "truly" work. and that thing is ITEMS. Zelda dungeons are often heavily based around a specific item that's found within the dungeon. Part of what makes Zelda fun is the discovery of new items that can help you on your quest. But in something like a Zelda dungeon maker, you don't get the progression of collecting new cool items. You would either have to start the dungeon with a pre-set arsenal of items, or you would have to place all of the necessary items within the dungeon for the player to find. either way, that already cuts a chunk of the fun out of dungeons. The only way this could work imo, is nintendo would have to supply creators with a huge arsenal of items to place. I'm talking like, 25+ unique items that do different things. and they'd also have to create multiple objects that interact uniquely with those 25+ items. That would help replicate the "wow" factor because you will be significantly less likely to have used each item, and even less likely to have encountered one of those unique objects. making puzzles feel a bit more... well, unique. But that seems like a LOT of work, and I don't think Nintendo is willing to go through that.

[@lethauntic]

13:44 You're right, they don't make them like they used to; they're better now. Though maybe you weren't saying that games are worse these days, because anyone who actually plays games would know that makes little sense. And I get the pessimism, but I don't think that what were once seen as 'basic' features (not that map-editors were basic) are all sold as separate DLC. It's like saying that Diablo Immortal is a direct representation of the gaming industry as a whole AAA and Indie-- not mobile games, specific companies, but the entirety of gaming all on the same level as Immortal's monetization. I don't know, I like older classic games as much as the next guy, but there's so much trash that released back then that it's really not that different than today. Well, it's different, that's for sure, but not in the sense that people like to act like every release 20 years ago was stainless-- Ever play the first 3 Driver games? Don't, it's not worth it. I know I'm inflating a tiny part of the video, but I hear the typically disingenuous "nowadays" line so much that It takes me out of the video in question, even if it may not have been meant that way. It's like when people talk about games becoming vastly more expensive through the years even though it's the opposite, even with the 10$ increase.

[@Umipumi]

There's always things like Zelda Classic if you want to make your own zeldagame, even though the zc-leveleditor could be more userfriendly. The pc-version of Zelda 2 with upgraded graphics and new items etc that was released last week is really amazing btw.

[@elijahingram6477]

I think the best example of what a "Zelda maker" would look like was done with "Lego Indiana Jones 2"'s custom level / game builder. You should look into it sometime. I messed around with it a lot as a kid, and yeah it really did feel like making a custom Zelda game (just with the Lego Indiana Jones theming). It gives you a surprising amount of options and it's all done visually.

[@whatdoahknow3173]

Scrap mechanic is a great example. You literally draw a link between to objects to make a connection. This link is visible so you can see what objects are connected to switches and so on.

[@in2webelieve997]

To solve the door problem Have two semi separate building modes. Room builder and Dungeon builder (if you've ever wrote music in a DAW this will sound familiar). Once you've built a room you can drop it in the dungeon builder. Door placement is decided in the dungeon builder not the room builder. That way it's easy to line them up

[@0cellusDS]

One question is how to handle the dungeon item. Is it part of the creation process to choose a starting equipment for link? Alternatively, you could handle the items like in the Four Swords series where you can only carry one item, but they would be placed on pedestals where you could simply switch them with your active item. This can be also used for puzzle design because you can create conundrums where you need to find an alternate path to bring an item A to where you need it because the main path requires item B and you cannot carry item A and B at the same time.

[@StayedBoot7207]

Like what I feel like is that you want to more complicated level Maker because if you look up Mario maker two, there’s a lot of bad levels same with portal 2 but if you have a more complex engine you to filter out a lot of the terrible creations and I’m doing so making the overall game a lot better as well for the people who aren’t skilled enough to use it. We still have plenty of way more fun things to do.

[@tkc1129]

There are existing Zelda game makers that are pretty good that I think it was a shame to ignore. Zelda Classic has been around for 25 years, and I know there is another, more flexible Zelda Maker that is about as old, but requires scripting to use.

[@nachoolo]

There's actually a game called "Super Dungeon Maker" released early this year that allows you to build your own Zelda-like dungeons. Haven't play it myself. But it looks similar to what you were talking about.

[@MonsterMaze]

I was indeed made aware. It looks awesome and I am excited to give it a try

[@juice1884]

it's not that great sadly

[@heroofgames170]

There is a game called legend maker which is pretty good as a Zelda dungeons builder, but you can also build an overworld with it, you could even make an entire adventure. Its being worked on, but there is a patron where you can get early builds. I recommend it and every month new stuff is added.

[@_Coraa]

I really like all the ideas but i think the logic from timesplitters could be even easier if when in edit mode you could draw out colored wires to show what should trigger what; but the UI obviously disappears when playing for example a yellow line could signify that the switch makes the hidden chest on said tile appear and the blue line shows that the eye switch opens the door. I feel like this would make it easier than having to go through menus for making events.

[@chaostheory1k198]

Hey, i think you might like Super dungeon maker. its similar to what you ask for in this video. Its still in early access but its quite fun already and you can build a lot of puzzles

[@sillypookmonster]

Dream Mix has been working on a 2D Zelda maker called Legend Maker for years now. They sadly failed their Kickstarter, but that doesn't seem to have stopped them working on it. They often do live streams on their YT channel. Maybe it will get finished eventually.

[@Will_Forge]

When I first saw the Shrines shown off for Breath of the Wild, I was convinced that they at least planned a shrine maker. I figure if they did then it was simply shelved before launch, and I hoped for a DLC in the future. Unfortunately not so much. Maybe Tears of the Kingdom!

[@mywifesboyfriend5558]

As long as there's an overworked as well, I'm in. A feature where you can play other people's Zelda maps like Mario Maker would be awesome.

[@SD-wp4bp]

Shame you didn't mention "Super Dungeon Maker". It's basically this (or at least, shaping up to be).

[@OverflowingWithIdeas]

I think the easiest way to solve your door conundrum is: when you make the room next to the one you made, have the entrance be locked in that position. That way, there is still creative freedom, but none of the door hazard issues.

[@cloud99337]

I think you could still do a whole world builder for Zelda but allow player to change dungeons to random or the world can also be a collection. Just have flags that need to match up which has been done in randomizers for awhile

[@rogerstephenroth8073]

Nintendo and Sega can hire the rom hackers and custom game designers to make the new Legend of Zelda maker game. The idea of making custom games, like with Mario Paint did with art and design is a highly creative and innovative idea.

[@Wolffman109]

I would like to see more Zelda spinoffs, not necessarily related to the Warriors franchise. It seems like that's pretty lacking right now.

[@UninspiredUsername40]

I think that much like how SMB and Zelda 1 were designed with a lot of opposing design philosophies (linear action vs. nonlinear exploration, score-based vs. no score, etc.), for a Zelda Maker to be truly great it would also have to have opposing design philosophies to Mario Maker: sacrificing some accessibility for versatility and focusing less on short, quick levels and more on longform experiences. Zelda isn't just dungeons and I don't think dungeons alone would be enough for a Zelda maker. And to make playing long adventure and exploration focused experiences made by randos worth it, a Zelda maker would have to offer much more customization options. Possibly to the point of including custom graphics and light scripting like Game Builder Garage or Wario Ware DIY has. Something like that would be pretty tough to design while maintaining accessibility. There are some fanmade Zelda maker type things out there like Zelda Classic, but they tend to be really obtuse and difficult to use.

[@kilthrall]

Take a look at levelhead's logic system and super dungeon maker's editor. Much of what you mentioned has already been implemented in really nice and intuitive ways

[@PureKnickers]

Yes! Super Dungeon Maker has the template for laying out a dungeon quite well. Levelhead's 'switch' logic tool has allowed for so much creativity.

[@TimConceivable]

i'm keeping my fingers crossed that Butterscotch Shenanigans will make a nice editor for Crashlands 2, but... not holding my breath.

[@gatorloki548]

Here is a pitch for a gohma boss fight You enter the room and you are on a platform. On another platform sits Gohma who moves around and shoots lasers. You can’t hit gohma or you will fall into a pit that divides the 2 platform. However there is a eye switch behind you, but you can’t reach it. So you have to make Gohma hit the switch with his lasers so you could summon a chest with a bow and arrow. Then you can kill Gohma

[@x-manthegreat7294]

Got a good idea for doors, if you have a room right next to another room. Place a door, and then it automatically places a door on the other side. In other words, what Dream Mix Games does.

[@jamesrichards2646]

Super Dungeon Designer on Steam/Switch is coming out. It has a cool linking system to trigger events without any code!

[@guilhermebarbieri3030]

I still dream about Minish Cap remaster/remake or a GBA library that includes it with Nintendo Online

[@MartKart8]

The first time I began to use Unreal Engine 4 some years ago, one of the things I learned about was doors, and I learnt how to connect a switch to a door, when I had multiple same doors, I could either use an eye dropped to pick a door with the same code or dropdown list and choose the door from the list. I use Unreal Engine 4's Blueprints.

[@MonsterMaze]

UE is so great. I am currently messing around with it. I once made all the basics for a horror game in Unity. But I never got around to finishing it unfortunately :(

[@MartKart8]

@@MonsterMaze I think you should try to make a game, I once learnt how to make a spider bot in Blender, then I imported it into Unreal Engine, I was able to code it, so it chases the player, and fires balls with a calamity malice design, and teleports at them. When destroyed it blows up using a toon bomb explosion, from The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. I learned a lot from tutorials.

[@apureo5720]

I dont think misaligned doors are much of an issue. A good level creator will keep track of that stuff anyways

[@gamezx]

Been saying this for years ever since mario maker first came out. No idea why nintendo hasnt made it yet, this would be pretty easy to make and be a huge hit

[@marche800]

I think in order to keep the ability to shape rooms however you like, they should make it so that if a room is next to another room with a door that the wall it should connect to us marked with where the door is in that other room is. I.e say you build the first room with a door on the left wall, three blocks from the top. If you build a second room the the left of the first one you see that door from the first door marked on the right wall of the screen, three blocks from the top and you would have to place a door there before you're able to save the project. I think having Mario Makers limitation where you need to complete your dungeon before you can upload it would also relieve that problem.

[@kuks0453]

5:50 When he said a lot meatier I was like "YOU WOULDN'T-" And then he did it

[@Artofjoe]

There actually is one in development right now, it's called Legend Maker. It's being made by dream mix games.

[@melo-7904]

Can’t wait until zelda1 dungeon 1 remakes appear basically everywhere

[@jackjones2454]

On the topic of correcting door misalignments, maybe it could be that when you place a door connecting two rooms, they automatically go to the right spot, and if you move a door in one room, the corresponding door will move in it’s room to match it.

[@Wesmin2]

I used to have alot of notes on this, I had an overworld system down too, I forgot what I pitched exactly, I'll see if I can dig it up

[@Nastara]

I am instantly reminded of Zelda Classic, the Zelda 1 style game make engine.

[@UltimatePerfection]

Not so hypothetical anymore, is it? Super Dungeon Maker, amirite?

[@Yllonnoc]

theres a game called super dungeon maker that i have played on steam its pretty cool

[@GoodBloodGames]

Nicely done!

[@NateIsLame]

I really don’t think a Zelda dungeon designer would work on a game console simply by principle. Mario Maker allows you to make bite-size levels that are dependent on platforming game design, which is a lot easier to work with than puzzles which require some semblance of wit and out of the box thinking. Dungeons are a larger time commitment. They’re not generally bite sized like Mario levels and require a lot more mental bandwidth. The visceral appeal simply isn’t there. Asking gamers to create a level that challenges other players with original puzzle designs while also asking other folks to sink lots of time into playing these dungeons with no guarantee that it isn’t mindless drivel made by a 7 year old is a lot on both ends. A bad Mario level can still be fun because Mario is fun to control, full stop. The enjoyment is simple and incompetent levels can still be enjoyable to some degree, paired with their brevity. A bad Zelda dungeon that lives and dies by its game design? That sounds awful, and it’s silly to assume the Zelda Dungeon Builder community wouldn’t be 99% garbage in the first place. I think I’d trust PC gamers to take this a bit more seriously than Switch owners. There are a lot of good ideas in this video and they do make me interested in what a concept like this could be like with a different audience though.

[@anikun]

Regarding the "custom textures" and nintendo not having faith in designs, just remember they allow it for Animal Crossing, i dont see why they wouldnt allow it for another IP

[@MonsterMaze]

Fair point. Maybe it is doable. I know Gamebuilder Garage has the option to draw your own graphics as well. The only worry I still have is whether or not the Switch's touch screen is suitable. But I can't say for sure, since I've never used the touchscreen for that purpose myself. Maybe it's not too bad ^^

[@Erlisch1337]

"Zelda Classic" kinda proves that it would work

[@Pedro_Marangon]

Now I want to make myself a zelda dungeon maker based on this video

[@MonsterMaze]

Go for it. Just don't tell Nintendo, or they will shut you down xD

[@Pedro_Marangon]

@@MonsterMaze I'll just won't put any Zelda-specific things and Nintendo can't do anything kkkkkk

[@Whatthetrash]

Fantastic video! Very cool! :D

[@bdhuffman42]

They could program an "auto door alignment" feature

[@toonieluvgaming8939]

Hear me out a legend of zelda binding of Issac clone

[@JadeJuno]

An idea for the door situation would be to leave the door placement on the layout editor. As for the "connecting actions to triggers", you can take Portal 2's approach of having visual connections in the map editor (while removing the connections in-game, to make it more mysterious)