A380 Crosswind Landing Goes Wrong

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3 Minutes of Aviation

3 Minutes of Aviation

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 307
@jjmetrejhon1743
@jjmetrejhon1743 Жыл бұрын
Can't decide if it's more or less impressive that he managed to hit so many lights in a row. Certainly had a steady hand!
@NegativeROG
@NegativeROG Жыл бұрын
He probably couldn't do that intentionally, though.
@TH33QUALIZ3R
@TH33QUALIZ3R Жыл бұрын
Very true! 😂
@pstrzel
@pstrzel Жыл бұрын
If you look at his rudder, it appears like he's pushing the wrong way upon touch down.
@ariochiv
@ariochiv Жыл бұрын
He's taking out the lights while taxiing sideways... imagine what would be happening if he was going straight! A trench in the grass, I'm guessing.
@brendenhayes6099
@brendenhayes6099 Жыл бұрын
I reckon it’s the FO in control and the Captain is looking out his window going “Got it!…Got it!…Got another one, let’s go for the record!”
@GetOutsideYourself
@GetOutsideYourself Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate it when the person filming these incidents doesn't ruin it with inane commentary.
@EvieAviation
@EvieAviation 7 ай бұрын
Thank you 🙏🏼✈️
@skydiverclassc2031
@skydiverclassc2031 Жыл бұрын
It never fails to amaze me when I see the size of the flaps on a B-52.
@EazyDuz18
@EazyDuz18 Жыл бұрын
nerd
@sjwilkin
@sjwilkin Жыл бұрын
your mum
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
They're nothing compared to this girl I used to date. She was called Donna, and her nickname was Doner Kebab.
@ShinzouWoSateSateSate
@ShinzouWoSateSateSate Жыл бұрын
(what even are these replies?)
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
@@ShinzouWoSateSateSate your mum.
@CommonSense-ProphetJohn
@CommonSense-ProphetJohn Жыл бұрын
Just my opinion ... love your vids. Short and sweet, nice music, no robot voice, no fake jokes .... Great!💯
@IIISentorIII
@IIISentorIII Жыл бұрын
It's 2023 and you are not allowed to have an opinion!
@mkvv5687
@mkvv5687 Жыл бұрын
@@IIISentorIII Sez teh troll while displaying an opinion.
@andymanaus1077
@andymanaus1077 Жыл бұрын
Despite the destruction, those edge lights would cost less to repair and replace than keeping the B-52 in the air for an hour.
@ozbolli
@ozbolli Жыл бұрын
What are the costs of lights v keeping a B-52 in the air for an hour?
@rollingthunder277
@rollingthunder277 Жыл бұрын
@@ozbolli B-52 burns 3,300 gallons of fuel per hour. At the cost of jet fuel, those light cost about 4-5 minutes of flight time.
@japsie9280
@japsie9280 Жыл бұрын
​@@rollingthunder27710 tons of fuel per minute? Are you sure? I assume you meant per hour?
@ozbolli
@ozbolli Жыл бұрын
@@rollingthunder277 think you might be wrong there.
@bigredc222
@bigredc222 Жыл бұрын
I just looked it up, the B52 cost $88,300 an hour to operate. It's not just the fuel and the crew, for every hour in the air, there are hours and hours of maintenance. For the lights I think they are probably $300 ea. but lets go crazy and say the lights are $1000 each and they take an hour each to replace at $100 an hour in labor for two guys. Call it ten lights, that's $11,000.
@RUBBER_BULLET
@RUBBER_BULLET Жыл бұрын
B-52 Stratofortress taxis sideways whilst demonstrating its ability to destroy multiple runway edge lights.
@Thankz4sharing
@Thankz4sharing Жыл бұрын
Never mind a few runway lights. You should see what a B-52 can mess up when it does what it was designed to do in the first place.
@mrbluesky2050
@mrbluesky2050 Жыл бұрын
. . good answer ! . .
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
These B52 Stratofortress plane drivers really like to show off - and I wish they'd quit it. I live near Brize Norton, and the other day a B52 pilot drove his plane sideways down our street just to prove a point. Okay, it's impressive. But it completely destroyed my hedge.
@aerodaan
@aerodaan Жыл бұрын
Not to speak of the street lanterns I'm sure
@juan21r16
@juan21r16 Жыл бұрын
Hilarious haha
@FOTAP97
@FOTAP97 Жыл бұрын
The perfect KZbin comment doesn’t exisss….
@donnawoodman6249
@donnawoodman6249 Жыл бұрын
LOL 😂 🤭
@Pouncer9000
@Pouncer9000 Жыл бұрын
My teenage daughter was sunbathing in the front yard and man, B-52's up and down the street like there was a convention. It's embarrassing to say the least, I wish the SAC would tell them about what constitutes appropriate behaviour.
@typhoon2827
@typhoon2827 Жыл бұрын
A380 that "nearly missed the runway" actually touched down on the centreline.
@fabianbuserell8609
@fabianbuserell8609 Жыл бұрын
It's so amazing what these tires of an A 380 can withstand. Sliding sideways at that speed with that much weight behind
@d.r.4453
@d.r.4453 Жыл бұрын
Honestly, the engineers responsible for the A380's landing gear are unsung hero's. If you search on YT for A380 crosswind landings you will see lots of videos where the A380's gear is brutally punished by hard landings and yet never fail. Amazingly strong and durable.
@donnabaardsen5372
@donnabaardsen5372 Жыл бұрын
LOVE this channel ❤️
@aviationin4k258
@aviationin4k258 Жыл бұрын
The first clip was a BA A380 during strong winds we had recently, haven’t seen it from that angle.
@videocritical
@videocritical Жыл бұрын
It’s a well executed baulked landing in difficult conditions
@realhusky
@realhusky Жыл бұрын
You can see they turn the rudder to nose to the left just before landing
@WeeGraeme68
@WeeGraeme68 Жыл бұрын
I still haven't seen anything with that landing that "went wrong". Wind and weather is never constant. The pilots responded appropriately to wind changes.
@Phobic_Nova
@Phobic_Nova Жыл бұрын
babe wake up new 3 minutes of aviation vid dropped
@NLJS_NorskGaming
@NLJS_NorskGaming Жыл бұрын
You right
@xploration1437
@xploration1437 Жыл бұрын
Dumb comment
@Phobic_Nova
@Phobic_Nova Жыл бұрын
​@@xploration1437i'm sorry i made a joke??
@xploration1437
@xploration1437 Жыл бұрын
@@Phobic_Nova I didn’t know you were 12.
@Phobic_Nova
@Phobic_Nova Жыл бұрын
@@xploration1437 dude, you're getting mad for no reason. btw, three years off, i'm fifteen. you coulda just not decided to say dumb comment, and been in a better mood, aye. have a great day, i'm not going to get into a stupid-ass argument.
@zapfanzapfan
@zapfanzapfan Жыл бұрын
Taxing sideways makes it look like a power slide, what an awesome maneuver!
@sweetdrahthaar7951
@sweetdrahthaar7951 Жыл бұрын
I don’t know what it’s like to fly a large aircraft, but in small, single engine planes, you’ve got to respond instantly with your ailerons and never let the wind get under the upwind side. Especially if you’re using backcountry strips with creeks and trees beside them. Some of the strips I’ve used are a one shot deal, you don’t get a go around.
@scarybaldguy
@scarybaldguy Жыл бұрын
Seems to me some of these ATPs need to get their tailwheel endorsement.
@lbowsk
@lbowsk 9 ай бұрын
BINGO. Lots of them do. ATP here sick and tired of watching jets slam into the runway sideways. @@scarybaldguy
@alkh3myst
@alkh3myst Жыл бұрын
"Hello, we have seafood menu specials on this flight. The cockpit crew is having crab."
@RonPiggott
@RonPiggott Жыл бұрын
Thanks for putting this video together.
@djmiller232
@djmiller232 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for EXACTLY three minutes of aviation!!!
@laszlozoltan5021
@laszlozoltan5021 Жыл бұрын
that sideways taxi is pretty cool- never knew about it before, must be useful with hostile deployment
@mkvv5687
@mkvv5687 Жыл бұрын
It's to deal with strong crosswinds.
@johnandrews3568
@johnandrews3568 Жыл бұрын
It's almost like that B-52 pilot was hitting those lights intentionally.
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
For some reason this reminded me of one summer in the late 70s when my friend and I went on an indoor archery course - aged about 10. The instructor thought we were rubbish as we kept shooting well above the target. There was a safety curtain behind, which above about ten feet became a net. We were trying to put an arrow through the netted part and into an emergency-exit sign on the wall behind 🤣
@EazyDuz18
@EazyDuz18 Жыл бұрын
@@fluchterschoen ok boomer
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
@@EazyDuz18 If this is funny in _your_ head, then I'm absolutely fine with it.
@soccerguy2433
@soccerguy2433 Жыл бұрын
​@@EazyDuz18jerk
@JohnClarke1
@JohnClarke1 Жыл бұрын
@@EazyDuz18 Their anecdote makes them GenX, not boomers (b. 1945-65). Plus your low-effort reply is pointless, so...
@ItsLesurex
@ItsLesurex Жыл бұрын
perfect 3 minutes of aviation good work
@MisterItchy
@MisterItchy Жыл бұрын
Oh my with that A380!
@Meisha-san
@Meisha-san Жыл бұрын
It looked like the nose wheel might've touched the tarmac before it lifted off again. Yeesh!
@johngraves6878
@johngraves6878 Жыл бұрын
That runway light business made me laff hard! Hilarious! If you could only rename your page "3 Minutes of Amusing Aviation".
@only1thatmakessense
@only1thatmakessense Жыл бұрын
When youre a passenger on the plane and you can see straight up the runway!
@davef.2329
@davef.2329 Жыл бұрын
Or you're in the cockpit and you're lined up with the windward edge of the runway looking thru the side/sliding window...
@only1thatmakessense
@only1thatmakessense Жыл бұрын
@@davef.2329 equally as scary.. id guess
@garycarter9859
@garycarter9859 Жыл бұрын
I am glad I was not on that A380. The landing would have been fine if the pilot had not 'kicked' the rudder the wrong way on touchdown at 00:31.
@Qwertyuiop_memes10
@Qwertyuiop_memes10 Жыл бұрын
Good decision of the pilot to go around 👍
@etiennedauphin
@etiennedauphin Жыл бұрын
I was about to call you out on posting click bait titles, but no. As usual you deliver. Good job with your channel.
@TheMrMused
@TheMrMused Жыл бұрын
You'd think someone would have told the pilot they were knocking out runway lighting.
@alexr5557
@alexr5557 Жыл бұрын
B757 - When ALT GEAR EXTEND is used the LDG GEAR DOORS remain down.
@flyingtigerline
@flyingtigerline Жыл бұрын
The Amerijet 757 is beautiful !!!
@andyscherer6936
@andyscherer6936 Жыл бұрын
The A380 pilot mistakenly applied massive left rudder upon touchdown, he should have gone right!
@diegoramirez8674
@diegoramirez8674 Жыл бұрын
I was looking for this comment
@maniakid
@maniakid Жыл бұрын
Dudes, either Aerosucre is behaving like a princess or we are in for a full on Aerosucre special
@gregedwards1087
@gregedwards1087 Жыл бұрын
2:45, this guy also knocks over traffic cones at roadworks sites on the highways, it's his thing. 😂😂🍺🍺
@TheStuport
@TheStuport Жыл бұрын
I've often wondered why some planes decide to go back up into the sky to do another landing when their wheels sometimes touch the landing pad and it seems as though once you are on the ground gravity should do it's thing. I realize some planes, while fighting the turbulence, run out of runway and I can see the need for another go at landing. Was just curious and by no means trying to be a sarcastic idiot! Another great share 3MOA and Cheers From The Clouds In Ohio
@jcmount1305
@jcmount1305 Жыл бұрын
Multitude of factors, how much runway left, is the plane stable, etc... the wheels may be on the ground but the plane is still flying until the speed drops under stall speed.
@the_bottomfragger
@the_bottomfragger Жыл бұрын
I'm not a pilot or a huge expert but if you're talking about the A380 go around, I think the call to go around was made before it was stabilized in any way, probably around 0:34, it always takes some time to get the engines back up to 100%. I also think nowadays you'll get more criticism when you decide to go through with such a landing instead of going around because it's considered the safer option to reassess your situation in the air without stress.
@lsdzheeusi
@lsdzheeusi Жыл бұрын
The @74gear channel has covered this in far better detail but basically, inertia takes place and large engines take seconds to spool back up to full power. The decision to Go Around can be made as the aircraft is seconds from touching down, power is selected, and it's inevitable that the wheels will touch as the power comes back on. The issue with letting "gravity do its thing" is that you want a stable approach at a certain point and it's easy to float or bounce and at those speeds, the aircraft can quickly run out of room to stop and/or get into an unsafe situation. Basically, if things are unstable, unpredictable winds etc., it's best to make the decision to simply go around, and that may include briefly touching down. Check out that channel, it's quite informative and you'd likely enjoy it. Cheers.
@TheStuport
@TheStuport Жыл бұрын
@@lsdzheeusi Appreciate your explanations and heads up on the 74gear channel! The more I can learn the less time i have to wear my Dunce Cap!🤣 Cheers!
@anasmaaz5731
@anasmaaz5731 Жыл бұрын
It is true that close to ground, if you perform a go around in a heavy jet, it can momentarily touch down in the go around maneuver. However, in this case it is clear that they decided to go around after the touch down. How do I know that? The spoilers came up when it touched the ground. If go around power was applied before the contact, the spoilers would not have extended. The pilot for some reason applied rudder into the wind (left) when in an it should have been the opposite rudder to align the body of the aircraft with the runway center line (crosswind). The wrong rudder application nearly knocked it off the runway. If the runway was wet, this could have been a lot worse.
@bugbuddy1771
@bugbuddy1771 Жыл бұрын
That was the most amazing crab walk. I have ever seen.
@richardjoyce1
@richardjoyce1 Жыл бұрын
I don't think I laughed too hard at the B-52, and I laughed quite hard.
@Wuzzup129
@Wuzzup129 Жыл бұрын
The size of the B52 never ceases to amaze me.
@shane9142
@shane9142 Жыл бұрын
Am waiting for Kelsey to review this
@airplanewhat5316
@airplanewhat5316 Жыл бұрын
I can't understand why the A380 pilot made a left rudder input just before touch down, when instead a right one was required as he did a few seconds later
@stephenholland5930
@stephenholland5930 Жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@Proparkourgamer
@Proparkourgamer Жыл бұрын
did KZbin just give you the Verified badge or was it there like from a long time. anyways i might be late for it but congrats
@Jin-Ro
@Jin-Ro Жыл бұрын
B-52 "Well sorry but destroying shit is just what I do, man!"
@cdimmm
@cdimmm Жыл бұрын
thats what terrorists do.
@doug1863
@doug1863 Жыл бұрын
To mess that 380 up , that had to have been some seriously strong cross winds😮
@realhusky
@realhusky Жыл бұрын
They kicked the rudder hard left just before touchdown
@pvkoinch
@pvkoinch Жыл бұрын
Liked the first clip not for landing but for greatest decision!
@peter2346
@peter2346 Жыл бұрын
Was on Air Tatoo (Sunday) and there was Me262 for the 1st time on an airshow in the UK.
@morgan79347
@morgan79347 Жыл бұрын
Must have been one hell of a crosswind.
@eubo2861
@eubo2861 Жыл бұрын
It was, I was in the area on the day and my dad had to keep correcting the car from being blown sideways
@breadbot999
@breadbot999 Жыл бұрын
BUFF knocking down the lights like bowling pins
@fluchterschoen
@fluchterschoen Жыл бұрын
At first I thought it was the engine exhaust destroying the lights, but now I see the little wheel near the wing tip. Are those ordinarily deployed with the main landing gear, or only when the plane-driver is showing off?
@charlesball6519
@charlesball6519 Жыл бұрын
​@@fluchterschoenThose are always down when the main landing gear are down. Don't want the wings dragging on the ground.
@nhytg376tgyuu765gjmg
@nhytg376tgyuu765gjmg Жыл бұрын
Strike! Strike! Strike...
@CRTLALTBACKSPACE
@CRTLALTBACKSPACE Жыл бұрын
STRIKER!!! YOU’RE COMING IN TOO HOT!
@josesantizo4432
@josesantizo4432 Жыл бұрын
Imagine how scared the passengers were inside that British airways Airbus A380 were
@sheek1982
@sheek1982 Жыл бұрын
Looks like that Amerijet footage was taken in St. Kitts. One of the best destinations in the Caribbean. 👌
@ryanfrisby7389
@ryanfrisby7389 Жыл бұрын
Great video!😸
@michaelocyoung
@michaelocyoung Жыл бұрын
That B52 sequence reminds me of a snake eating fireflies.
@lilacfrogs7970
@lilacfrogs7970 Жыл бұрын
Yo man everyone in the discord server goes mad every time you release a new vid they all love you there you’re like a celebrity you should really join
@bertblue9683
@bertblue9683 Жыл бұрын
Makes me appreciate the 18 hour drive
@stacky512a
@stacky512a Жыл бұрын
i am amazed that a cross wind can have that kind of influence on a giant plane such as the A380
@jayb2617
@jayb2617 Жыл бұрын
did that 757 take off with no TE flaps?
@rusty41251
@rusty41251 Жыл бұрын
No, he just used a minimal flap setting. If you have the runway available it allows a better climb due to less drag, less wear and tear on the flaps system, and better fuel economy.
@DerekKerton
@DerekKerton Жыл бұрын
Didn't the A380 pilot ask for that sideways landing by having hard port rudder right at touchdown?
@monkeyboy8424
@monkeyboy8424 Жыл бұрын
Oh Nigel, what are you doing boy - good job you have friends at the CAA.
@Old_B52H_Gunner
@Old_B52H_Gunner Жыл бұрын
My B52 crew and myself did an air show at Fairford in the 80s.
@cris_261
@cris_261 Жыл бұрын
BA A380: drift the plane, smoke the tires, and go around for another try.
@swanee327
@swanee327 Жыл бұрын
B_52 "i'm rollin'... They hatin'" sorry, i had too.
@BrandonAvaitor303
@BrandonAvaitor303 Жыл бұрын
Homie owes us 10 second of aviation
@kirkchapman80
@kirkchapman80 Жыл бұрын
Right hand drive over there mate.
@joydasgupta9445
@joydasgupta9445 Жыл бұрын
How's the B 52 moving?
@robertgriffin662
@robertgriffin662 Жыл бұрын
B-52 can "crab" there main landing gear. That's how they move the ground and landing and taking off in crosswinds. I'm guessing they bring the thrust up to taxi and crap the gear and go!
@DUKEisALIVE
@DUKEisALIVE Жыл бұрын
Dont act like he wasnt dared to take out as many lights as he could hahahaha
@Epicaviation47
@Epicaviation47 Жыл бұрын
Awesome thanks for the reshared
@BROKEN-PILOT
@BROKEN-PILOT Жыл бұрын
Captain screams, RIGHT RUDDER!
@itox85
@itox85 Жыл бұрын
which one is worse, crosswind or tailwind?
@Ronin4614
@Ronin4614 Жыл бұрын
Ya gotta love the BUFF. 😁👍
@sebastianfoster
@sebastianfoster Жыл бұрын
I was at RIAT 2023 and saw the B-52 on the Sunday as it didn’t take off in the Saturday but I wonder if they will have any more videos from there. I have a few myself but it would be could to see a few more.
@LiftPizzas
@LiftPizzas Жыл бұрын
You have a few B-52's? I wish I could even afford one!
@sebastianfoster
@sebastianfoster Жыл бұрын
@@LiftPizzas 😂
@velox__
@velox__ Жыл бұрын
"unusually fast takeoff" thats a 757 for ya. goes like a bat outta hell!
@777pusher
@777pusher Жыл бұрын
I watch UPS and Fed-Ex 757’s climb at crazy pitches all the time. What is it with those pilots??
@hamentaschen
@hamentaschen Жыл бұрын
2:12 I counted 13 light-strikes! Awesome!!
@rcnfo1197
@rcnfo1197 Жыл бұрын
How did the B52 crew not know the impact of their demo? No pre-flight planning? Wasn't Tower watching? It's funny to see, until we (taxpayers) get the bill.
@nedretrop2173
@nedretrop2173 Жыл бұрын
I noticed Slats are down and Flaps are at zero on that Amerijet 757.
@leftblank131
@leftblank131 Жыл бұрын
"Any landing you can walk away from is not a Launchpad McQuack landing...."
@klausvonshnytke
@klausvonshnytke Жыл бұрын
#2 Am I seeing correctly that only slats but no flaps extended for the tak-off? Not sure if this is how it's supposed to be.
@MeppyMan
@MeppyMan Жыл бұрын
Likely fairly empty and they wanted a higher climb rate. The 757 has powerful engines.
@rusty41251
@rusty41251 Жыл бұрын
He just has a minimal flap setting. It is legal and normal operation.
@scbruinsma
@scbruinsma Жыл бұрын
Flaps on the Amerijet 757?
@rickbarnard-uj8hs
@rickbarnard-uj8hs Жыл бұрын
Wow excellent pilot 1st plane!
@wwaynemcg
@wwaynemcg Жыл бұрын
When you have the pilot, and crew, out repairing each and every edge light...this kind of hotdoggin' will stop pretty quick.
@pauloceneviva
@pauloceneviva Жыл бұрын
NO FLAPS on the Amerijet -- that is really unsusual.
@deanc.5984
@deanc.5984 Жыл бұрын
Thumbs up for no talking, just show the planes please 👍
@bobwerner6967
@bobwerner6967 Жыл бұрын
B-52: I meant to do that.
@mathiasfischbach4843
@mathiasfischbach4843 Жыл бұрын
It certainly looks like he meant to do that.:D
@JohnSmythe-od4gk
@JohnSmythe-od4gk Жыл бұрын
The B-52 clip should have Deja-Vu music on top of it
@jimgemmell2831
@jimgemmell2831 Жыл бұрын
That first clip, the BA A380 footage, belongs to Evie Aviation.
@Windrider6
@Windrider6 Жыл бұрын
"Gravity gear extension system" seems like, "disconnect the hydraulics from the landing gear, then fly upwards as quickly as possible to give it as many negative Gs as we can, hoping it will pop out". Or maybe, "slam the plane down as hard as we dare to try to get the landing gear to go down."
@rusty41251
@rusty41251 Жыл бұрын
Gravity alone can extend the gear without any funny maneuvers. Yes, the hydraulic system is biased out hence the gear doors remaining open. The system works very well.
@kirstieburroughs858
@kirstieburroughs858 Жыл бұрын
Ahhh you can practically see the A380 undercarriage bend!!!😮
@idkidk8278
@idkidk8278 Жыл бұрын
That plane has done it before. It took out 15 or 16 lights taking off one time.... So weird I just saw that yesterday. Pretty sure it wasn't A new video either. I'm guessing this plane does that a lot
@itsxlmxn
@itsxlmxn Жыл бұрын
TBH every a380 crosswind landings amaze me its just impressive for me and i think british airways a380 didnt do to bad.
@rhuttrho88
@rhuttrho88 Жыл бұрын
Effff your lights!🤨🫨
@DerekKerton
@DerekKerton Жыл бұрын
Looked like Sonic grabbing coins.
@iconicshrubbery
@iconicshrubbery Жыл бұрын
1 The B52's wingtip wheel(?) takes out those lights,one by one;I couldn't see it at first 😮 2 The A380 needs that crabbing gear, for those crosswindy landings!
@larryboatcrew
@larryboatcrew Жыл бұрын
Do these commercial pilots get any sort of report or alerts about poor performance on takeoffs and landings?
@Robert-p7c1k
@Robert-p7c1k Жыл бұрын
Go round or touch and go?
@robertbandusky9565
@robertbandusky9565 Жыл бұрын
3 degrees per second gentlemen 👨‍✈️
@edjo3430
@edjo3430 Жыл бұрын
This has to be the most difficult job at times.
@TeddyFaceFiver
@TeddyFaceFiver Жыл бұрын
That Amerijet pilots been playing too much GTA V
@FayeP-s3w
@FayeP-s3w Жыл бұрын
👍
@johnhand3754
@johnhand3754 Жыл бұрын
The B-52 pilot was showing off!
@6x.justin
@6x.justin Жыл бұрын
whats a380 max wind
@shorton6707
@shorton6707 Жыл бұрын
The b-52 pilot held it straight.
@Mesh_potato
@Mesh_potato Жыл бұрын
The A380 is like a giant elephant, when it lands., it struggles to t stand up
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