About Becoming a Philosophy Professor | Reconsidering Matters 10 Years Later

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This is a video in which I reconsider some of the topics that I had approached and addressed 10 years ago in a video, requested by some of my viewers, called "Some Advice About Becoming a Philosophy Professor," which you can watch here - • Some Advice About Beco...
I will be producing further videos on some of the other matters discussed in that earlier video. In this one, I zero in on what is generally required in order to qualify for being a philosophy professor, the job market that ha been difficult for several generations, the arbitrariness of the hiring process, and the likelihood of teaching as an adjunct or fixed term instructor rather than getting a tenure-track position. I think it is important to be brutally realistic, neither pessimistic nor optimistic, about the prospects in the present and likely future.
Some of the information sources mentioned in the video:
"Get Lucky" | A Conversation on Twitter about Academics, Hiring, Luck, and Privilege - • "Get Lucky" | A Conver...
Charles Lassiter - 2022-23 Philosophy Job Market Report Daily Nous) dailynous.com/2023/01/19/2022...
Jeremy Davis - My Five Years on the Philosophy Job Market - jeremydavis.substack.com/p/my...
American Philosophical Association Guidance for Philosophy Job Seekers - www.apaonline.org/page/guidan...
Alexandra Bradner - The Cruelty of the Adjunct System (APA Blog) - blog.apaonline.org/2022/04/13...
Paul Schofield - Twitter Thread - / 1608851022415552512
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#philosophy #jobs #academia #advice #preparation #study #education #market #rejection #choice

[@chasedooley6237]

I thought about becoming a professor when I was in college. I was quite ambitious and thought I could do the work. Fortunately, I left school early because I couldn't afford tuition anymore. Being out of school gave me some time to think about what I wanted to do. And I discovered some new information about academia, some horror stories of academic and departmental politics, and the extreme competition for jobs. All that convinced me that while philosophy is engaging and rewarding on its own, academic philosophy or just a career in academia was not something I wanted to do. It's enough for me to study philosophy on my own.

[@GregoryBSadler]

That is certainly a possibility. Hopefully you were able to use what you did get in college to help you study on your own

[@rewschreijewschreier]

same. got my ba in it but the competition was insane, and not only for that but, living in a midwest state at the time where schools are consolidating at rate of every day on the calender it seems i was like. oooooo. maybe i shouldnt go into education. the stories across the nation of how new teachers are booted around and let go if they are too valuable. rough system currently.

[@dstrats]

I appreciate your thoughts shared. And I concur with your feels, sadly. Me, undergrad Psychology major, Philosophy minor. I’m going for my AA, then BA and the whole route. This passed month, being in school at 45, since 2020, I really feel like letting it go and studying Philosophy on my own and continue reading Psychology. I truly wanted to be a therapist, but not quite sure if it’s worth the money and investment. Again thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@chasedooley6237]

@@dstrats And thanks to you for sharing your experience. It's great that you're attempting a degree at 45, and I especially appreciate that you want to be a therapist. I had a similar aim when I was in college (that wasn't long ago - I'm only 26!). I decided after a lot of consideration that I can fulfil my need to help others through thoughtful donations to effective charities. It's enough for me to support the work, rather than be the one doing the work of helping others directly (being the therapist, doctor, etc.). Good luck with your studies!

[@caesaraugustus9148]

Here in Australia there is a push for (and current policy designed to) reducing the amount of liberal arts students and a focus on pumping out more and more science and engineering students. I was one of the lucky ones to major in philosophy in my undergraduate before they closed down the departments....

[@GregoryBSadler]

Similar priorities in many countries

[@mmxviii8921]

Nice touch wearing the same outfit as in the previous video haha

[@GregoryBSadler]

Different flannel

[@ericschantz4275]

Hi, Dr. Sadler! Thanks so much for the great video here. I'm somewhat offbeat in that I'm 56 years old, and have two master's degrees in biblical studies and pastoral counseling. I'm a mental health counselor in Rochester, N.Y. I am currently underway in a third master's program in Catholic Philosophy. If I can manage the tuition, I hope to graduate, go on to a Ph.D program, and...find work in the philosophy field (!!) This was a very sobering presentation, but one that I need to hear. If I graduate from a doctoral program in 4-5 years after my master's (hopefully graduating from THAT in another 18 months,) What are the chances of my finding anything upon graduation? As I type these words, the answer becomes obvious, but I'd still like any input from you regarding e.g., age discrimination, years of experience and wisdom, the ability to teach, publish, etc. Again, Thanks very much. -Eric Schantz

[@GregoryBSadler]

There are so many factors at play, and each hiring instance is its own black box, that it’s very difficult to go beyond saying that there’s a lot of candidates for any given job

[@GregoryBSadler]

It’s kinda tough to say about the age discrimination matter. It does definitely occur, but quite often those engaging in it - from what I’ve seen - make sure to cover their tracks. But which departments might engage in it is tough to predict

[@ericschantz4275]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, that sounds right. I was going to originally attend Notre Dame for biblical studies. My doctoral father was going to be Jerome Neyrey. Notre Dame was going to give me 100% tuition reimbursement plus 10-12,000.00 a year in living money so I wouldn't have to waste all my energy working at jobs and then dragging myself home to write a dissertation. I rediscerned my calling however, and pursued a counseling master's instead at Loyola Maryland; this was due in part because of the SAME issue; too many biblical studies doctorates, and (at the time) vanishing biblical studies programs, existing programs getting funding cuts (often so the money could go to sports and STEM programs,) and - ironically? many of the biblical programs getting subsumed into philosophy departments. Such is life in Academe...

[@ltngrk]

Excellent discussion, Dr. Sadler. Another problem, though, is that many departments in second- and third-tier institutions are contracting--and some are even being eliminated--owing to low enrollment. I know of one philosophy department that's down to three faculty members, and that department has survived at all only because it has cross-over courses with Criminology. Two recent retirements will not be replaced. That's the bad news. The 'good' news is that philosophy courses there, such as they are, may eventually be staffed entirely by full-time non-tenured and part-time adjuncts.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yep. Pretty aware of that, as someone who has been in this business post/grad school for over 20 years. Not a new factor by any means

[@malongsserve4735]

I considered becoming a paleontologist or a philosophy professor. I decided for myself that it wasn't worth the risk of wasted tuition and time. Unfortunately all the cool jobs are scarce.

[@Monkey_G5]

10 minutes into the video and decided not to be a philosophy teacher lol was considering it after I retire from the military to have a laid back job where I can help people. This doesn’t seem laid back 😂

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, it's funny you thought it would be easy to even get to the point of getting that job

[@marxunemiku]

i think i took the right path in doing chem in academia and philosophy in my own time. i often even forget this is an actual real world thing and not an internet subculture

[@GregoryBSadler]

@@marxunemiku Yes, a real world thing for a long time. Same problems, by the way in academia with the other humanities, and in the sciences

[@Bewleys_]

This conversation could be had in a STEM context and you wouldn't have to change much. Slightly better odds, but still not great and getting worse.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Indeed. Though STEM from my experience is much less of a unified set of disciplines than lumping them in together suggests. As disciplines, mathematics and the natural sciences often get less resources, prestige, etc. than engineering or "technology"

[@Bewleys_]

@@GregoryBSadler I agree the unity is nebulous at best. I'm in the natural sciences and I barely have a clue what mathematicians do all day aside from the high-level requirements of being an academic. From an academia perspective engineering and technology/computer science are odd ones, there is certainly a prestige and resource gap, and an interaction gap. Where I completed my undergraduate degree there was a separate faculty for engineering and computer science. I'm curious to see how the resource gap develops in the coming considering the current shrinkage in the computer science field at the moment.

[@TyphonTheos]

So you're telling me there's a chance!

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'm not. You're inferring that

[@marxunemiku]

its weird that they let the people with vested interests that could be biased for/against be the arbiter of whether or not you get hired, i wouldve thought it was decided on by a third party

[@GregoryBSadler]

That would be even weirder than how things have worked for centuries

[@arinalikes5911]

Interesting point about not taking advices and following what the earlier generation does. I had this analytical philosopher P Unger as my professor one yr and he was so discouraging actually of ppl perusing philosophy. He thinks it’s obsolete and there’s no meaningful things to be done anymore. Most things are empty ideas to him. Gotta say I never agreed to much of what he says and he comes across a bit racist and old school. But I sometimes sit down and chat with him over coffee cuz he seems to want to talk to ppl just as an old person. But all the time he was bashing philosophy, he is weird but It still made me waver.

[@GregoryBSadler]

There’s nothing “old school” about being a cynical discourager, I’d say.

[@johnbrown4568]

Without even a documented high school education---the union longshoreman and social philosopher Eric Hoffer, achieved more than 80% of philosophers in the last 80 years.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Weird numbers you so confidently throw out there. But then what a weird post you couldn’t resist jumping in with, I suppose