Ace Combat On A Grand Scale

[@diabdia]

The reason I even own an Xbox is to play AC6 and its amazing implementation of the grand scale war they made for it. The ability to call in allied forces to help you out in the middle of operations was so much fun and dynamic. I definitely would love to see it come back in later games. Especially now since the hardware is vastly improved to handle such epic scale missions. Or even just a thought, maybe adding a co-op mechanic with many players, say at least 12, handling a massive mission. That could be fun.

[@ThunderousFolf]

I do agree, it is really neat to be able to call upon other units to help out! The fact that not just fellow pilots, but ground and naval allies would help whenever they could as well is really neat to me. If they wanted to, they could totally bring it back but on an ever larger scale with the improvements in hardware since then, no doubt. Ooohhh, that could be really fun! Are you thinking along the lines of how Infinity's multiplayer went but just on a larger scale with the upgrades in hardware, or something else? I like the idea you've got! My mind turns to facing against some of the iconic Ace Combat superweapons but with increased enemies and battlefield sizes to accommodate for the increased player count. A 12 player assault on a beefed up version of Stonehenge or the Aigaion and her fleet for example could be amazing.

[@diabdia]

@@ThunderousFolf I've always had this fantasy if you will of namco and dice coming together and creating an Ace combat X battlefield game. You have the infantry along with the tanks battling on the ground and then you have the pilots in the sky. It's always been such a fantasy. And I know you can pull it off in battlefield games with the Jets but it's nothing like an Ace combat

[@ThunderousFolf]

@@diabdia Essentially having the aerial combat have more of an Ace Combat feel to it? I know what you mean. Battlefield's aerial combat can be good, but it doesn't scratch that aerial combat itch like how Ace Combat does. I think a Battlefield-Ace Combat hybrid would be neat because if you play as the infantry or ground/naval vehicles, you'd get to see what it's like to witness your country's top ace go to work from that perspective.

[@xavi-kun]

Regarding the Co-op, technically Ace Combat has done it before in Ace Combat X2: Joint Assault for the PSP. Although the game only allows 4 max to coop.

[@pro_154]

i want this for 8, co op

[@Mobius118]

I think you bring up some excellent points. It must be said I greatly appreciate the DMS system, *especially* in those moments where it gets a bit chaotic and you feel like you can’t help everybody. It’s how a real battle goes: sometimes there’s not much you can do, and you have to leave your buddies to succeed or die while you help others. It added a feeling of urgency and camaraderie that games like AC 7 failed to capture for me. While I know it was a sticking point in this video, it’s something I felt should be said.

[@ThunderousFolf]

From a cinematic perspective, I see what you mean. Like you said, sometimes things like that happens in war, and it gives you that much more anxiety if it's happening to a unit that you've taken a particular liking to for one reason or another. It gives a little bit of a horrors of war perspective that sometimes not everyone can be saved. From a gameplay perspective though, I do still think it can be a bit frustrating to sometimes be in a situation where your hands feel like they're tied. But I do think some sort of combination of that cinematic perspective of not being able to save everyone in war with the great core gameplay of this game would be neat. It's just a matter of how to do it. On the one hand, you want to still be able to fairly give the player a chance, but you don't want to make those kinds of moments so staged/scripted it sucks the anxiety out of those moments.

[@guts-141]

They managed to capture the feeling of helplessness in Ace Combat 7 DLC Missions Like I can't reach the furthest plane before it gets destroyed by an enemy Still it's kinda sad that it took a DLC Mission for it to happen

[@Greystar2426]

Never played an ace combat game, I just like the memes and the music, and somehow I got recommended this. Nice work though, needs more views.

[@ThunderousFolf]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed! Ever thought about trying out Ace Combat yourself, out of curiosity?

[@Greystar2426]

@@ThunderousFolf I have AC7 in my wishlist on steam, if I ever stop being lazy and learn how to use emulators I may try AC4.

[@guts-141]

Man you should get 4, 5, Zero and Project Wingman

[@Mobius118]

Frigging LOVE this game. My second fave after Ace Combat 04: Shattered Skies

[@ThunderousFolf]

That's fair! Even though the top 3 Ace Combat games for me are all 3 games of the holy trinity (surprising, I know 😛), I rank AC6 among the games in the series I really like. Like I said in the video, I owe a considerable bit of what I like about Ace Combat as a whole to this game. One of the big things for me is that the core gameplay of this game is really smooth and enjoyable!

[@Mobius118]

@@ThunderousFolf Great point, my man. Honestly we're so spoiled with all those great games, broski.

[@mrandrossguy9871]

My Third fav after Ace5

[@sargesacker2599]

These battles are the reason why ace combat 6 is my favourite gameplay wise, the multiple mission starts and operations increase replay ability. That and the standard missile tracking and wingmen are so much better than ace combat 7. Another thing I’ve noticed especially with the F-14 is that the weapons in this game act closer to their real world counterparts than in the other ace combat games, like the phoenix missiles being dead for a second before they track or the guided bombs require certain speeds and angles to be effective.

[@ThunderousFolf]

That's one of the reasons why I like this game too (On top of AC6's core gameplay of flying around and fighting being superb). Like you said, the different operations that can be done gives the player more to do and explore. Even though players will have their preferred order of operations to complete, being able to do those multiple operations to figure out those orders in the first place is neat. The missile tracking I think contributes to why the core gameplay is smooth too. Rewarding excellent flying and positioning, waiting for just the right moment to strike. AC6's wingmen AI is better for sure. It helps that you can use allied attack and cover, but your allies absolutely mop the floor with the enemies you target. Funny you mention that. I remember using the F-14 with the XLAAs for the first time and being like "Why do they have that delay? Are they bugged??" I just wasn't paying attention to the description of the weapon lol

[@generalironside8610]

This game needed to be added on PC. I wanted to play so much... :(

[@bepsimig]

Great video. Honestly, thanks to the DMS, I think that Ace Combat 6 is the only AC that managed to make you feel an unstoppable force while also giving this sense of unity with your teammates, despite all its problems. I think the reintroduction of this system would be appreciated by the community as a whole, though it needs some adjustments. Just take AC7 as an example: although it tries to mimic in some way what Fires of Liberation already proved (like during the 2nd Siege of Farbanti you mentioned), it falls victim to the same problems all other main AC games have: the sense of isolation created by putting the protagonist above everyone else. You don't really build a great bond with any of the characters during your first playthrough (with the only exception of Count because he's the only one that follows you until the end despite joining after the start of the game) and the Siege of Farbanti feels like just another mission with you doing all the work and sometimes listening to what the others have to say until the plot kicks in. This is also amplified by phrases like "Stick with Trigger and you'll make it!" and "Trigger's different." Same thing with AC0 with the only teammate worth remembering due to his skill and his dialogues being Pixy and once he's gone, you're just a sole mercenary. AC5...it's a different animal, one which FORCES you to have some kind of connection with the other pilots, via gameplay (which is a good thing) or via story (with...mediocre results at least for me). So, how do I think the DMS should be reimplemented? With a mix of 3 previous games: AC6 (obviously), AC7 and AC4. Why AC4? Because its mission also have this feeling of you being part of a greater force, though the dialogues are very limited but that's because AC4 was a new start for the franchise. If you look at the map during (for example) Invincible Fleet, you'll see your teammates engaging in every area and sometimes even come out on top. If this was the allied AI in AC6, trust me every mission would be a lot easier and the whole multiple operation started at the same time issue would be less annoying. In conclusion: A new DMS with the core structure of AC6, the dialogues of AC6 with a mix of AC7, the skill of AC4 allied AI and maybe a possible customization of strategy for all forces deployed before the mission starts would surely enhance the players' experience. Of course, this is just my opinion and I'm more than open to discuss it

[@spartenkiller456]

I feel like being able to coach co-op would be cool, join up and have a friend fight the ground operations in an attack plane while I keep the skies clear in a fighter would be pretty sweet. Never one to neglect the single player, I think a return of the paid wingman system from Air Combat would be pretty awesome. Hire a hyper competent Ace Mercenary to cover a particular operation so you don't have to worry about it. Maybe have multiple mercenaries companies with the cheaper ones having weaker planes and less experienced pilots and expensive late game companies with Aces to fly with.

[@DrRESHES]

This was the last game that i needed to complete in the main series, it took a lot of time to redeem the code for pre order of AC7. Overall the game is god damn amazing, it has it's own personality in story and gameplay which many games can't do.

[@gavador9234]

So from what I can tell the biggest issue was the player being overwhelmed by allies calling for help. The way the systems been set up it's possible to activate two operations at once. I like the thought of the system and would like to see it appear in future games, I never got to play AC6, or any of the games before AC7 for that matter. Perhaps a warning that you're about to enter a new operation could save the player from activating two operations. However overwhelming the player in a mission you're supposed to lose might be interesting.

[@ThunderousFolf]

That's the largest issue in my eyes, yeah. Granted, things like the Battle ID device to highlight specific operations do help, and it seems like the pace at which the battles you're not participating in/haven't activated are slowed down in the form of allies not receiving damage at the same rate as a time buffer of sorts (Though that point is just a gut feeling, I can't say if that's the case for sure or not), but something like what you suggested could work. Even if the player is using the Battle ID device, they could still get a warning from the AWACS in the form of "You're about to enter sector B!" or something like that. If you ever get the chance to play some of the earlier Ace Combat games, you absolutely should! Out of all of the games though, I personally recommend you play the Holy Trinity (AC4, 5, and Zero) if you get the chance. AC6 is a solid game too if you ever get the chance to play that. I hadn't even thought of that before! AC6 kinda had something like that in mission 7 where you have to cover your allies as they retreat at the end, but that part of the mission didn't use the Dynamic Mission System mechanic. Combining that with the different sectors could be neat! A spin on the usual formula, where an operation completion is in the form of your allies having successfully made it out of the combat zone.

[@nellancaster]

So I'm going to try and give my own answer to the questions at the end of this video, both the one asked (improvements on DMS) and the other one (should DMS return in future games). Keep in mind that I have neither played AC or been in the community for long, and I only get to play AC1, a bit of 2, 3, and the PSP titles, so take my words with a grain of salt. For improvements, I'm just going to touch on a few small things. I think what you suggested in the video is already good enough and that other guy's take with operation zones interacting with one another is excellent on its own. I think instead of having the player respond to a yes/no question a la 5, the player would have a dedicated "engaging with this operation" button. So instead of waiting for a confirmation dialogue to finish, then showing the answer prompt, the AWACS/friendly crew would simply go

[@ThunderousFolf]

I like the idea you have concerning the different operations! I like how that would seem to flow more naturally than having to wait for a dialogue option to pop up. It's true, there can be a lot happening that adding on a response mechanic on top of that could be a little hectic in the moment. My suggestion of the yes/no response was centered on making the player an active part of conversations and such, but I hadn't given as much thought to how it would flow looking back on it after reading your idea. Ooohhh, good point! I see where you're coming from. If DMS from AC6 were to be added elsewhere, sure AC6 would stand out as the game that did it first, but it would also make the game stand out a little less in the grand scheme of things since it wouldn't be the only one to do it in this example. There's a difference between mechanics/additions that enhance the Ace Combat series as a whole, and mechanics/additions that make a particular game stand out from the others. Project Aces has done a brilliant job at giving each of its games a distinct reason to stand out, and I'm confident that they'll continue that in the games to come (Makes me excited for what AC8, or whatever the title will be, will have that'll make it stand out!) For someone who says they haven't been around AC for too long, you've got some solid points here!

[@DEEZ_N4T]

My opinion in this is that I do agree about the problems of the DMS especially on Moloch desert, and Liberation of Gracemeria. However if you are doing a run in where no operation is failed then completing the campaign in Ace to get the CFA-44 will always be the solution then redoing the campaign. Other option would be to use Multirole aircraft and do a quick strafing run or 1 pass for each objective, but if you are doing a attacker aircraft only run after struggle, then you’ll have to take the phrase “the hardest choices require the strongest wills” to heart. Meaning you’ll have to abandon 1-2 operations to fully TLDR: if you want a good run grind for CFA-44, git gud with 1 specific aircraft, or let the few suffer so the more succeed

[@Zeithri]

Have all operations go from the start but the player don't have to put their all into every operation. Have the RNG of Allied vs Enemy AI resolve battles so not everything is on the player's plate.

[@robertolesiliatotacchini5023]

So in my opinion as i played AC6 last year, currently tring to unlock all Campaign achievements. The dinamic missions mecanic is fun especially because you can actually choose what you want to do in what the mission offer. For esample capture an airport while carring air to ground weapons for then resupply with Air to air weapons for an operation focused on arieal battles. They only "bad" thing that i can think someone could point out would be to focused on ground targets. So If this system would be reimplemented in a future AC well i think that need to have more interaction, an esample something like there are three location to conquer. One of this is fortress protected by silos that lounch burst missiles. And this missiles give actually a support to the other location to try to defend them by you.Taking out that fortress first will give you an advantage over the other other operations. While doing the other operations will made enemy forces withdraw and regroup at the fortress making it more difficult to assault it later on. So the thing that i think will improve this system is an interactions between the various objective or maybe also a system that detect your tactisc so if you are using many air to ground weapons the enemy will notice that and will scramble more aircrafts on the opposite they will place more Sams and AA guns to defend a position. Zero systems of enemy aircraft retreating. The aircraft in base at where they will be dameged will leave the airspace or land fix their planes and then take off again. Being very effective against the enemy forces will made them call the support of Aces or Ace Squadrons. So an actual recation of the enemy of what are you doing not just

[@ThunderousFolf]

I think with the upgrades in hardware over the years, something like what you haver in mind could be accomplished! I like where this is going, making the battlefield as a whole more dynamic with a wider range of responses and tactics from both you and the enemy. I particularly like the idea of the different zones supporting one another. Like with the burst missile launcher example you gave, I like how you gave the idea of eliminating them first so that the other two zones are easier to handle. In another operation, perhaps taking over an airbase early in the mission would prevent any damaged enemy aircraft from being able to land back at that airbase to repair themselves. And the idea of the enemies reacting to your presence could be a good way to implement enemy ace squadrons in the campaign, the enemy ordering their ace squadron into the air as soon as it's confirmed you're in the battle.

[@robertolesiliatotacchini5023]

@@ThunderousFolf yes thats exactly what i tried to say. I came out with other ideas of interaction between objectives. You have to operation an Air Base, some ground forces in the middle and a large squadron scrambled form that base on the other side of the map. Lets say you equipped your Air to Air SP weapon and go for the squadron first, as you inflict heavy casualties and dameged aircraft will reatreat to the air base. The air base infromed of the situation will send in the sky renforcements to compesate the squadron casualties. When you wipe out the squadron compleatly the air base will be on high allert as they dont have more aircrafts in the sky. Taking the idea of them noticing your tactics, now they know two things: you are coming and you have Air to Air weapons. The IA could tend you a trap and when you start the attack on the base the enemy will increase AA guns and Sams as well as you jammers to make thier assets more difficult to hit knowing that you dont have the right SP weapon. You choose differently. you attack the air base first they will be taken by surprise and have no time to react against you, so no more reinforcements and damaged aircrafts being able to repair and you have a forward base for resupply. You choose to attack the squadron now and inflict heavy casualties to it. Now the IA is loosing. To gain an advantage the enemy ground forces could launch a counter attack to take back the air base and try to take time. While waiting for thier ace squadron arrive that they supposedly called. And this could go along with radio conversation as well to have some awearness of what they are planning. Also the more advanced aircraft or weapons you destroy the less they have, forcing them to relied on outdated ones. Old jets, old flak guns. I dont know, have a church tower used for an improvised AA fire position and so on.

[@ThunderousFolf]

@@robertolesiliatotacchini5023 I gotta say, this is oozing with potential! If an Ace Combat game were to make its missions as dynamic as how you're describing them here, I feel like those missions would be standouts in the campaign. I also like how this format can serve well for both the campaign and multiplayer. For the campaign, all of these different scenarios could add lots of replay value for players to explore different aircraft and SP weapon choices along with dealing with the objectives in different orders. For multiplayer, this could serve excellently for some sort of co-op mode where a large number of players fight together with these dynamically changing objectives and tactics. It could even serve as a good blueprint for a PvP mode, where players fight over control points on the map that grant bonuses and helpful abilities for each point controlled.

[@robertolesiliatotacchini5023]

@@ThunderousFolf you probably heard the news, they are officially developing a new Ace Combat. Also I just came up with an idea while playing anchorhead raid. Were you can shoot down enemy commanders. Adding them to the ideas discussed before. Taking down the commander (as hidden targets maybe with variable spawns, almost like an Ace for ground or naval forces, with an assault record separet for them) will made the enemy react slowly at your presence and less coordinating counter offensives. As you "chop off" their chain in command.

[@DpNemo]

always good to see more AC content. speakinf of, AC3 when?

[@ThunderousFolf]

Thanks! It felt good to make another Ace Combat video. As for AC3, that's still on the backburner. Still waiting on getting some hardware upgrades which may take a few months to be able to acquire so that the gameplay isn't laggy and jittery in the final video lol.

[@mrandrossguy9871]

I love Ace6 for the Breathtaking Visuals and Smooth flight control ! I think the Landing in the middle of Fighting after Conquering a Section should return same as Return Line in All Levels maybe except for last level, But the Flight models of Ace3/Ace04/AceX/Ace6 should ALL Return as a Flight Model Option ! That's one of my biggest gripes with this franchise, the Feel of Flying while shooting stuff Really affects the Experience - like it or not it's closer to how planes Really fly at least in an arcade Jump-in way for heaven sake ! So if this series abandons that Experience would be Utter failure of opportunity to real in More of a player base

[@mrandrossguy9871]

Also the Questions mechanic from 5 was pretty Fun and engaging even if you ignore but seeing how PA has done things lately gives me little hope for any improvement from the "Trinity" and other greats like This one you reviewed

[@raihanrusli2720]

I've played ac7, but I still wish I can play AC6 in the future. Its just that I dont have xbox360 though. And I hope more large scale battles can come back to future ace combat

[@ThunderousFolf]

Do you have an Xbox One or a Series X or S? Ace Combat 6 is backwards compatible with all of those. Large scale battles have lots of potential to them as the technology for gaming has progressed, so I also hope they're kept in the next title. I enjoyed how games like AC7 did it as a score attack mission, providing the large scale battle feel while not making the player feel too overwhelmed. Large scale battles have some big potential for multiplayer in particular in my eyes. Imagine Ace Combat Infinity's multiplayer but with missions that are twice as large and twice as action packed.

[@raihanrusli2720]

@@ThunderousFolf no, my country is not so popular with xbox series. And yeah I couldnt ask my parents since I already have PS2 Yes I also hope they will make more of it next game, and espescially return of co op multiplayer like ac infinity

[@TheGamingKiller242]

There's a couple problems I have with the Operation system myself that are more hidden. You talked about being stressed over things like other units across the map struggling without your help. In most circumstances, that wouldn't be an issue, but in AC6, whichever unit you choose to start next to in the loading screen, they are automatically weaker than others. They can't take as much damage, and they can't deal as much. You can't deal some damage to enemy forces, and then let them take care of the rest if you need to leave. Allies are simply too reliant on your presence in some battles, particularly The Liberation of Gracemeria. That mission in particular is really dumb from a tactical perspective. This is an intense urban battle, the Estovakians last stronghold, and you're just going to throw all your forces in at the same time? The other issue I take with the system is that battles feel incomplete when you can't finish all the operations. San Loma and Anea Landing being the worst offenders in my opinion, bit Bartolomeo, Ragno, and pretty much every DMS mission suffers from this. There are entire sections of a battle unfinished, yet the mission ends. You can leave the fleet out to dry on Anea Landing, and yet the mission still ends and you technically have sea superiority. In San Loma, you support the bombers and the fleet meaning you have no ground forces to actually take the city, yet it's still liberated regardless. In TLOG, you can completely ignore Dragon Busters and Warlock and somehow still win the battle (despite this being Estovakia's last stand). You have an entire entrenched downtown area in which you can lose your ground force, but it doesn't matter if you gain air and sea superiority? This is Estovakia's last stand before their homeland gets invaded (as far as they're concerned) they should be fighting to the death.

[@janberg3232]

I realy wished the DMS had been in AC/. Not only would have your allies been useful sof something, a missions like likeThe Battle for Farbanti could have been something realy special, not just another score attack.

[@Furebel]

What's the first game on screen, with that artilery commanding and stuff?

[@ThunderousFolf]

Tom Clancy's Endwar! One of my favorite RTS games

[@Furebel]

@@ThunderousFolf Thank you!

[@user-fn1cq4df3g]

Does anyone know where to get the PC ROM files for this game on Xenia?

[@newdawnsets7076]

What game are you playing in the beginning of the video? Because at around 0:26 there's just straight up HL2 assets in that animated screen there.

[@ThunderousFolf]

That game is Tom Clancy's Endwar. I'm assuming when you say HL2 you mean Half-Life 2? I've never played HL2, believe it or not lol. Which assets are being used there, out of curiosity?

[@newdawnsets7076]

@@ThunderousFolf Yeah, the computer screens in that are using computer screens seen in Half-Life 2. Unless Tom Clancy's Endwar is on the Source Engine, they just stole assets from HL2.

[@newdawnsets7076]

And I just looked it up, it's running on the Unreal Engine. They stole HL2 assets for no reason.

[@garudaos]

how do you only have 353 subs ??

[@ThunderousFolf]

I am super late in replying to this, I'm terribly sorry 😅 But I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video by the sound of it!

[@KMACKTIME]

Yo buddy, you still alive? - Solo Wing Pixy

[@vincentthendean7713]

How about keep the current mechanic but a retreat is not an auto game over. Just a reduction in score. This way players can feel like there are casualties to war due to failure but the hardcore players can feel even more like a badass because they managed to save everyone.

[@cameronfarrell9076]

I really don't like the operations system. no matter how good you are at the game or how quickly you complete each operation you can't complete all the operations in a single playthrough of the mission, this is done for replay value since when you play through the campaign a second time you can do the operations that you didn't do the first time. But it just comes across as artificial busy work to complete the game. The result of this is that ac6 has a relatively small mission count, which limits everything else that makes an ace combat game great, there's less overall mission/map variety which definitely limits/harms the pacing of the story/missions, there's less opportunity for character/story development and also will result in a smaller soundtrack. I think the score attack missions in ac 7 achieved the goals of the operations system much better, if you master the game you can completely wipe the map, conversely if you bring the wrong plane to the mission you will struggle to complete it at all, which makes the game overall more satisfying to play and master. My favorite ace combat game is ac 5, as far as I'm aware ac5 has the largest mission count of over 30 missions, and imo it has the best pacing, mission variety, character development and story of any ace combat game. I think the scope of the mission count contributes heavily to why project aces were able to achieve this. These elements are also what I believe is lacking in ac6 and why it is one of my least liked ac games.

[@mrandrossguy9871]

I love ace5 for the same reason though I hear Ace3 Japanese FULL VERSION had around 50 missions !