the sham legacy of Richard Feynman

[@Eager_Face]

I can’t believe the first physicist to work on the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise would lie like this

[@fools_opinions]

Especially a multi Guinness world record holding physicist.

[@granite8959]

His mom is very proud

[@coldengrey12]

Can't wait for the MTV Cribs episode

[@sandwich2473]

wh... huh? hbomberguy reference?

[@nujuat]

He was chosen by Shiguru Miyamoto to play the bongos in the Metroid Prime OST

[@htilden42]

I was honestly expecting the final twist to be that Richard Feynman never actually existed and was just the result of authors quoting each other.

[@Tysca_]

The real Richard Feynman was the Woozle we made along the way😊

[@ziggystardust4627]

We can all be comforted by the thought that he's not really gone, there's a little Feynman left in all of us, in fact you might say that all of us together made up Feynman.

[@MegaCrazyhand]

"Feynman was super good with the ladies" said Richard Feynman, surely the most trustworthy source on the matter

[@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND]

Without being snarky, those of us who are lucky enough to be successful in that regard can too easily find ourselves bragging about it. I've been guilty of it myself (you could even sort of accuse me of it right now). So... not that he *was* successful--because I wasn't there--but the fact that he said he was successful doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't. See what I mean? Some women are simply attracted to confident men whom they view as "brilliant"... whether he is actually brilliant or not. Women can "smell" confidence on a man... and sometimes, that's all it takes. (Be careful to never confuse "confidence" with "arrogance". They are not the same. And most women detest arrogance.) Feynman was arrogant with men, maybe, but he treated women very differently. That's my 2 cents.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

pretty sure his strip club trips did him in but that's just me.

[@Nicole-J287]

@@USS-SNAKE-ISLANDDarling, you should rethink this comment.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND Being "successful" was in my day, just a case of being able to ask a lot of women out, and not feel bad about getting a lot of rejection - eventually someone will decide to give you a chance - a statistics game, if you will - not one I was ever any good at due to taking said rejection to heart too much.

[@jv-lk7bc]

@@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND "most women detest arrogance" unfortunately isn't really true. Possibly a lot more eventually learn to detest arrogance after about their third marriage...

[@Tom-gp6oy]

Thank God for Richard Feynman. He saved my life as a child. Pulled me out of a river, I just had to solve a brief physics problem first. The other kids couldnt do it though.

[@mykey6375]

That explains it!!!

[@wreaverfizzlefen3234]

Why did I read this in a bad Trump accent?

[@SomeGuyWithAFace9]

my favorite part was when feynman said "oppa physics style!" and everyone on the bus clapped EDIT: I am now significantly further in the video, i must amend my comment; my favorite part was when ralph leighton said that feynman said "oppa physics style!" and everyone on the bus clapped

[@ghostD0C]

Then he said "It's Feynin' Time!" and feyned all over the place.

[@julianbell9161]

It brought tears to my eyes when I read that on his death bed in 1988, he told Ralph to come closer and he whispered his dying words “I may have been a physicist, but all I ever wanted to be was a Fine Man.”

[@penjamin1479]

The lasting social impact of 'oppa homeless style'

[@Formaldehydex]

Could Einstein play the bongos or open a locked safe? How about supervising the women who did much of the calculations for the A bomb? He also single-handedly explained in a simplistic manner why the o-ring failed on the Challenger months after the Morton Thiokol engineers tried to stop the launch for the very same reason. He definitely belonged on The Apprentice. Too bad he didn’t live that long.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

I took a swig every time she said Richard Feynman. Then I checked myself into Hazelden - just down the road from me. Now I'm back and the video is just about ending.

[@joelcroteau9925]

I used to think Richard Feynman was the Socrates of physics. But it turns out he was the Socrates of physics.

[@Mighty_Atheismo]

Its giving "there are two types of people: those who think Elon Musk is like Edison and those who think Elon Musk is like Edison.

[@I_Love_Learning]

This took me a bit to get, so I'll explain for anyone who can't figure it out. At first, they are referring to Socrates as a figure who does a bunch of great stuff and has no faults. The second time, they are referring to Socrates the man who squabbled and made mistakes and such, but who is portrayed as perfection. Feynman is not not the perfect Socrates, he is the squabbly human Socrates.

[@quarkonium3795]

@@joelcroteau9925 This is such a niche joke but absolutely amazing if you understand it

[@Nicoder6884]

@@I_Love_Learning I think the second time is referring to the fact that Socrates never wrote a book.

[@andrewcapra7153]

​​@@I_Love_Learningalso, a large part of the "legend" atound Socrates is from other philosophers writing him into conversations that he wasn't in and may not have ever happened at all, to bolster their own points of view by having them either be said or agreed with by The Socrates, *The Smartest Man In Every Room*, so the authenticity of anything that "Socrates" did/said is questionable at best. In the same way, Feynman's legacy has been distorted so heavily by half-remembered decade-old anecdotes and workshopped to hell Everybody Clapped tall tales that finding Feynman the man instead of the legend is a herculean task

[@jacquiecotillard9699]

“I started out trying to understand this person on a simple level… now I’m here how did I get here?!” - a demonstration of what, in music, we might call “The Tallerico Effect.”

[@v0Xx60]

His mother is very proud.

[@Mighty_Atheismo]

Richard Feynman was the first American theoretical physicist to work on Sonic the Hedgehog -- personally selected by Mr Nintendo himself to design the ring drop collision physics.

[@joelcroteau9925]

I thought it was The Talking Heads Effect.

[@tonoornottono]

@@joelcroteau9925that is funny too but they’re talking about hbomberguy’s famous “Roblox OOF” video which went completely off the rails into fraud and pathological deception.

[@sebastianahrens2385]

Foreshadowing is a literary device...

[@kylehill]

Extremely insightful and eminently listenable. Fun fact Angela: I was actually in the audience for the daughter's speech and the hologram presentation.

[@hardikb15]

I was just about to look up your videos... didn't expect to be greeted by your presence here of all places.

[@SebastianAdamss]

Heya Kyle - as a science educator yourself, what do you think of Feynman's legacy from that perspective? Is it a also a sham?

[@shaan702]

It would be cool to hear your story with a bit of a retrospective in light of everything and a shout out to this video.

[@VitriolicVermillion]

If it isn't the B-team here to bow before the queen! 😛

[@cinderwolf32]

Fun to see you here

[@DanGRV]

“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. - Richard Feynman” - Ralph Leighton

[@yayariru]

lol, underrated comment

[@resurgam44]

Ahahahaha

[@saganandroid4175]

Google Search does not like this one bit.

[@karmeloxen]

He stole dat fum Wayne Gretzky.

[@DESOUSAB]

@@karmeloxen Actually, the original quote comes from Walter Gretzky - Wayne Gretzky's father. Wayne first said it in 1983 to The Hockey New's Bob McKenzie, but later in 1996 attributed the quote to his father.

[@estrelaniawilliams5029]

This video made me remember the time one of my male medical school classmates asked to come over one night and I said no, I’m tired, already in bed. Then he showed up and banged on my door for a long time (he knew I was home alone) and then called me a bitch and other things via text message when he realized I wasn’t going to let him in. I did feel scared and unsafe, but it didn’t feel like something I could report. It never occurred to me that anyone would take it seriously because it wasn’t “bad enough”. I felt like maybe I did something to encourage him like it was my fault. We were friends in school for years. I Am a pretty friendly person and had dated a couple other people in the school. I just ignored him for the rest of my last year of medical school and thankfully nothing happened. I’m pretty sure he’s now a psychiatrist. So that’s weird. I have at least 2 other similar medical school stories involving different men. Thank you for talking about this topic and making me feel less alone.

[@charles3840]

Something similar happened to my girlfriend in sophomore year before I met her. A so called "friend" showed up to her dorm and via text insisted she let him in. This was a bit after he admitted feelings for her and he didn't take it with any maturity. She refused, of course, but was obviously scared. He wasn't near so as violent, but he engaged in some similar harassing and stalking behavior after. The dude had the audacity to follow her and I to her apartment and decided to try to chat with her after I left. I wasn't dating her officially and I hadn't heard the story, but whenever they were in groups he'd do everything he could to wait until they were alone. Even tried to find out what classes she was taking next semester to try and overlap more. I was completely unaware of what he was trying to do until I spoke with her. She talked with me about the event and it only took me a few questions to tell her she was being harassed and stalked (another couple of events with the same guy strongly indicated that). I don't think she was super surprised by my conclusion, but it took someone else's perspective to believe her instincts. She's been talking with the counselors and Title IX office a bit and other campus authorities. She probably will only file a statement (and let the various powers know he's got a history) against him since he's been manageable, especially since we've started dating, but I wouldn't blame her if she had pushed for more consequences. Men: stand up for the women in your life. Be the kind of guy and friend that they'll trust to help them in these situations, not the type they try to avoid. If a woman has never told you about an experience like this, it's likely because you might be the latter.

[@MichaelVonKorff]

In the video, Collier tells a similar story about a fellow physics student that she felt she could not report. In the video, she's suggesting that Feynman might have been this sort of person - that while in his stories, women almost always found him charming even when he treated them rudely, perhaps in reality they were uncomfortable with his behavior but simply didn't feel like they could speak up about it. I assume the comment you're replying to was a direct response to Collier's story.

[@andreweaston1779]

@@planthub9252 Clearly did not watch the video. Didn't even make it 15 minutes in. Why don't you try watching the video then delete your comment.

[@Amethyst_Friend]

@@dustman96Where the hell is your empathy?

[@B0bb217]

The psychiatrist twist took me out☠️

[@Yuuray]

the bongo drum transitions are killing me

[@sizwesokopo281]

They're so good 😂.

[@nerfherder4284]

😂 a little funnier every time 😂

[@ThinkitThrough-kd4fn]

He plays like Andy Kaufman.

[@kydlnw2023]

Feynman playing 😂

[@lolkthnxbai]

I'm deep in girltok and one of the videos that crosses my feed was "never trust a man who's good at the bongo drums", and now I know why. 🫡

[@zooblestyx]

I'm reminded of George Carlin talking about not having anything against Jesus, but loathing his fan club.

[@umurkaragoz]

Good to see someone still remembers George Carlin 🥲

[@dokchampa9324]

Except Jesus is just objectively a better guy than Feynman on all levels, and I say that as an atheist

[@laughingbeast4481]

​@@dokchampa9324Well compare real human to fictional character is not fair though.

[@dokchampa9324]

@@laughingbeast4481 Jesus is a historical figure, his existence has been proven quite a while ago. Obviously there's no proof for all the magical mystical stuff he supposedly did, but he did exist and was a prolific preacher for his time, which is exactly why the 2nd part of the bible is all about him. Though I suppose there's no way to prove that he was exactly the same as the way he is portrayed in the Bible character-wise, especially since that book already tends to exaggerate his accomplishments so there's nothing saying that it wouldn't exaggerate other parts of him, so you do have a point to a degree.

[@dokchampa9324]

@@laughingbeast4481 youtube auto-mod seemingly ate my previous reply but fyi Jesus was a historical figure

[@PeterPanarchy]

"That's a woman who feels like she doesn't have another option." Such a simple but impactful explanation of what that type of behavior does to a person.

[@hisham_hm]

1:39 that "Newton. Einstein. Feynman" list in the book continues with Kaku and Sheldon Cooper, so maybe the point of the list was to plot a curve more like 1/x

[@PinataOblongata]

It was a quote specifically about the fame of theorists vs the relative anonymity of experimentalists, rather than laying a real claim as to who the greatest physicists are.

[@RaptieFeathers]

​@@PinataOblongataYeah came here to say this

[@xBINARYGODx]

ugh, you people... it doesnt matter if that example is not great if the point is clear and not something you can argue against.

[@greggstrasser5791]

I was going to post something about that list. New to this channel & thought 2 hours was an interesting flex. Does anybody on this channel think Einstein is anything that is used by engineers? GPS doesn't count (see Ron Hatch) and i've never heard of a 2nd instance. I want to know how Feynman could bang White undergrads and not get any complaints. Did he bang Jewish chicks? I'm not trolling. I want to develop FTL drive.

[@Wave_Commander]

@@xBINARYGODx ugh, you people... it's okay to point out if one argument or example has a slight issue, that doesn't invalidate everything being said

[@ValStinks]

WAIT RALPH LEIGHTON WAS A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER AT MY MIDDLE SCHOOL IN THE BAY AREA!?!?!?! I ONLY PUT IT TOGETHER BECAUSE HE TALKED ABOUT TUVAN THROAT SINGING ALL THE TIME HE NEVER MENTIONED FEYNMAN ONCE LMFAO

[@XatxiFly]

whoa!!

[@rightcheer5096]

NO COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS goddammit

[@ValStinks]

@@rightcheer5096 you try to contain yourself when you realize your substitute teacher is the feynman oracle

[@thezipcreator]

@@rightcheer5096 ALL COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE "LOWER CASE"!!!

[@JohnMiller-mmuldoor]

@@ValStinks substitute teacher !?!? all this mythmaking , and it wasn’t even that good of a grift

[@anakruger2412]

13:25 This whole part almost made me cry. We just want to exist and learn in a space without weird guys trying to grope us and follow us and demand things from us with no consequences. This video is so important, thank you so much for making it.

[@dieselrouge]

This is, by a wide margin, the best 3-hour analysis of Richard Feynman I have ever seen. Thank you. Have you considered writing a book? There's bound to be a big market for it, especially with Feynman's name on the cover and a big picture of him being good-looking and quirky. Please consider this, the world is starving for more Feynman books.

[@jonathanlink2071]

Isn’t KZbin commentary the new book?

[@hoodedferret]

@@jonathanlink2071 Someone really should, if they haven't already, do word counts on long-form YT commentary like these and compare it to non-fiction books pre-smartphone era. The last non-fiction audiobook I listened to was ~7h30m but I wonder how much of that, assuming it's the average, is just from vocal performance differences.

[@oasntet]

@@hoodedferret According to youtube's vaguely-okay transcription and 'wc', this video is just shy of 29317 words. According to several sources, the average non-fiction book is in the ballpark of 50k words, though some sites claim that recently the word counts of NYT Bestsellers (including non-fiction) are trending shorter. So, yeah, an editor and fleshing out things a bit could easily turn this video's script into a non-fiction takedown, but as you can see in the desc there's already a few like this. (I'd buy one by Angela, anyway, because getting this sort of thing to the top of the bestseller list is a net positive, culture war be damned.)

[@CarrotConsumer]

The Sham Legacy of Richard Feynman, written by Richard Feynman.

[@IntuitivelyCurious]

​@@oasntet trying to make misinformation go viral to demonize a dead great physicist is so pathetic

[@husamismael8926]

As Gell-mann said, "His preoccupation with himself and his own image began to get on my nerves. He was a very good scientist but he spent a great deal of effort generating anecdotes about himself." I'm suprised you didn't include that interview

[@chiphill4856]

@@husamismael8926 He was a goof, for sure.

[@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND]

What, a three-hour long jag on what a bad guy he was wasn't long enough for you? LOL! Damn, dude.

[@lawrencenienart860]

Gell-Mann was not much better.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

I think we've all had workmates like that - super entertaining a lot of time time - then they just go too far and become irritating.

[@manfredking]

@@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND i dont think you watched the whole video

[@suveruzgar]

Lol those "pretending to speak foreign languages and actually fooling the natives" stories reek so much of "how difficult can languages be if they aren't studied in STEM departments?"

[@JoeAuerbach]

It's very Indiana Jones. "To infiltrate a Nazi base, you need not speak any actual German. A German accent will suffice."

[@SavageGreywolf]

@@JoeAuerbach hey hey hey now. Indy didn't ever do that. He faked a _Scottish_ accent.

[@lubricustheslippery5028]

Does the Swedish chef not speak real Swedish? I have never realized

[@internetfox]

college level chinese kicked my ass this is so real

[@coolsenjoyer]

​@@JoeAuerbach Maybe it was just German accent for the audience but he actually did speak German in-universe

[@aegisxor]

Today I learned I've read every book Richard Feynman ever wrote.

[@SomeBunnyThatYouUsedToKnow]

Keeping the Swedish Chef audio rolling over the explanation was such a good editing choice.

[@sixmike]

you just know he would have loved being a regular on Joe Rogan's podcast

[@subularreno]

Oh god, I can just imagine the Rogan fans saying they've been "learning physics"... After listening to a 7 hour Feynman episode about picking up undergrads using a French accent.

[@puffball4484]

Oh my god yes. He definitely would have been in that "intellectual dark web" crowd. He loved talking and hearing himself talk.

[@ccsmooth560]

He would go on JRE as one of the top 250 comedians. ( Surely, l'm joking).

[@quarkonium3795]

Hey Angela, I just wanted to say that your assessment of Anthony Zee based on the introduction to QED is 100% spot-on. I went to UC Santa Barbara for my undergraduate degree and he's one of the most hated professors in the entire department. Most students despise him for what he stands for. He's super misogynistic and out of touch and also clearly embodies everything else the "Feynman Bros" represent. He doesn't believe that women should be studying physics and he has been verbally disciplined by the department multiple times for saying so in class, yet no meaningful action has been taken against him to make sure he doesn't teach classes. According to some students I talked to, he would also get into fits of anger and occasionally throw erasers at people in class. Additionally, he would sneer at questions that he deemed "stupid" and wouldn't even try to answer most questions other than just repeating what he just said TLDR you're absolutely right about him, and fuck Tony Zee.

[@XatxiFly]

sounds like a charmer, clearly he's logarithmically more fun than I am

[@charlesspringer4709]

Throwing erasers was classic discipline until quite recently. Like a few decades. Before Snowflakehood was granted to all. And it only worked where students were civil enough to not throw them back.

[@quarkonium3795]

@@charlesspringer4709 Even if you agree with corporal punishment as a discipline tool (which I don't at all), using it on college students for asking questions is totally inappropriate either way. Zee doesn't teach lecture courses with 200 students, half of whom are asleep or not paying attention. He teaches upper-division elective classes with at most 40 students, all of whom are paying attention because they're interested in the subject (these are physics majors who chose to take the class). He wasn't throwing erasers as a disciplinary tool. He was throwing them because he's a jerk with anger issues

[@tyscam]

​@@charlesspringer4709It only worked when there were few women around. If the price to pay to have more female physicists is a less toxic classroom, I'll take it.

[@nico-wj1mh]

@@charlesspringer4709 "snowflakehood?"

[@veritasetcaritas]

This is the kind of high quality long form production which is sadly almost never rewarded by the algorithm. It's sensational work, and deserves hundreds of thousands of views. I am glad to see it has already broken 100k in the first 24 hours.

[@MideoKuze]

The fact that you felt the need to overexplain why creeps and belligerent men made the experience of studying unreasonably unpleasant for you expecting to be dismissed is galling in itself

[@xBINARYGODx]

And even worse, those sorts of "men" are in the comments doing just what you think they would do.

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

Stop being a simp. It won't help you get noticed by her. If you've been watching her videos, then you know she hates men.

[@z0uLess]

@@xBINARYGODx Im a man. Lets talk about it instead of thinking about some abstract entity of "men", of whom you allready have figured out what are going to say.

[@jakobwachter5181]

@@z0uLess Case in point! Please re-read the comments above until you get it.

[@z0uLess]

@@jakobwachter5181 Feels good to label someone as stupid and then dismiss their point of view because of it, dont it? This must mean that you are intelligent, right?

[@dianasalles0]

Wow I just realized I believed the story about his lecturing to the University in Brazil about how there is no physics being taught in there or anywhere in the backward country, insulting everyone in the audience. My grandfather was a nuclear physicist trained in Brazil, and Brazil collaborated with the US Manhattan Project, and has done critical research since the 30's. I never even realized the cognitive dissonance I was having but now that's cleared up thank you

[@RaptorSeer]

You're not complaining too much, you're saying what we're all thinking. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for addressing the Feynman issue.

[@GypsumGeneration]

I wasn't thinking this I was thinking about hot dogs is this how you all live??

[@IMS-4]

@@GypsumGenerationjump bro

[@nerdycatgamer]

I don't know if this is any consolation, but the 'asking inane questions during lectures to try and show off how smart they are' is not a personality unique to physics. there are lots of people like that ive encountered in computer science and (afaik) we don't have a feynmann-like figure to model that behaviour for them.

[@schmutzie]

A contextual note about Feynman's reported domestic abuse: Married partners couldn't divorce without proof of domestic violence or infidelity, and so spouses who otherwise respected each other would conspire to convince a judge of one or the other so they could part ways. In the 3 years that my mother worked in a hospital lab, 2 of her friends there saved up money to hire private investigators with their husbands to "discover" their husbands with sex workers posing as lovers. Seeing this in the paper likely wouldn't set off too many alarm bells due it being a known divorce tactic.

[@disasterarea9341]

i wonder if that's a part of why so many people don't believe women's sexual assault etc. claims in the modern day.

[@BobJones-rs1sd]

Yes, and also note that the legal standard at the time was often "EXTREME cruelty." Yes, legally at the time you could be "normally cruel" to your wife, but for a judge to sign off on a fault divorce, it generally required an allegation of extreme cruelty. Temper tantrums wouldn't be enough. In cases where some sort of other grounds couldn't be proven (like infidelity or abandonment), assertions of domestic violence were common. None of this is to say it couldn't have happened with Feynman, but when it's the outlier allegation for the "real Feynman" Angela uncovers amidst his other apparently kind and loving behavior toward his wives, children, and other women in his life, it should at least be given some pause before accepted uncritically as "proof," especially given divorce standards of the time.

[@JS19190]

@@BobJones-rs1sd Agreed, this is such an extreme outlier that "divorce tactic" sounds more plausible.

[@TheProgressiveMichigander]

Yes. I knew this about divorce law and was sure the story was heading towards him having lied about something to help her get the divorce (I figured lying to get a divorce was something the FBI was investigating to pin on him along with talking to the Soviets). But I guess we'll never know if it was a true act by a violently abusive man or a lie to enable a mutually desired divorce.

[@robanderson4539]

@@TheProgressiveMichigander

[@ShuRugal]

"Always the smartest guy in the room" I don't remember who said it, but "if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room" is solid life advice.

[@angrymeowngi]

As someone who has been in a couple of rooms where I just happen to be "the smartest guy", I think anyone who enjoys that and wants to consistently be in that situation just wants attention. It has nothing to do with contributing or making a difference. If everyone is just talking, nothing is getting done. And even less than nothing is getting done if "the smartest guy in the room" thinks and believes he is the smartest guy in that room and gets satisfaction from that realization. For me, I was really more of the "least stupid guy in the room" and when I tell you those rooms are filled with politicians and lobbyist, you'll also reach that conclusion if you ever find yourself in that kind of room.

[@PinataOblongata]

@@angrymeowngi What have you got against classrooms? Teachers are all just egomaniacs, now? 😉 But seriously, I'm guessing you were an engineer or some sort of subject matter expert for the aforementioned political class? I don't envy anyone in that position.

[@PinataOblongata]

Reminds me of the saying, "If you're the strongest guy in your gym, find another gym." Basically the same idea about only being able to progress with people who can push and inspire you and who may have more for you to learn from. Of course, no matter the room, there is always going to be SOMEONE who is the smartest or strongest or most capable or skilled or whatever, so in those cases you really want that person to embrace sharing their knowledge for the betterment of others, not just leave the room in their own selfish quest for betterment.

[@musictomyshears]

I mean, that creates a paradox - if people sought to be in rooms where they weren't the smartest, then why would smarter people want to be in a room with you? Maybe because you're nice and they enjoy your company - there's more to life than comparing IQ scores.

[@cat-le1hf]

@@PinataOblongata In classrooms, unfortunately the teacher is often not the smartest person in the room.

[@mcolville]

There are some great quotes from Gell-Mann about how Feynman is famous because Feynman wanted to be famous.

Gellman just copied Cartan, Feynmann created new and decisive points of view

[@terrycole472]

On the other hand, Cartan was worth copying. On the gripping hand, so was Feynman.

[@gravitydust6092]

Matt...Matt Colville???? I feel like I shouldn't be surprised to see you in the comments, but also I was not expecting to see one of the DnD youtubers I follow randomly comment on a 2+ hour physics video.

[@Wolfboy607]

"it's aged poorly.... I guess,.." Jesus fucking christ that killed me. Thanks for this, I needed this. My best friend is a recovering feynman bro. We were neighbors, but he went to a private boys school while I went to my public school, so I never saw him interact in larger contexts like that, but he sure did talk a lot about feynman. And he went into physics, and couldn't hack it. He's now out of the field, got into data analysis. The next big thing. Har har har.

[@puffball4484]

Lmao data analysis was the next big thing a decade ago. Now in five to ten years all of those jobs will be almost completely AI.

[@Wolfboy607]

@@puffball4484 That's why I said "har har har", I know that things aren't looking great for that industry, but tbh, things aren't looking much better for mine.

[@nobat00]

Almost 3 hours long? the jenny nicholsonfication of physics videos has been completed. we are eating good today.

[@dreamofsprings]

Jenny what?

[@DanielShepard-t5f]

All Dr. Angela needs is a cute hat & themed plushy. I'm here for it.

[@mellowmanta8975]

we'd better eat good, it's Thanksgiving

[@jaytaffer9641]

@@dreamofsprings A different channel but not about physics.

[@simonburger7194]

The costumes are still under development, but they'll be here...

[@PapaBenjaminW]

Dr. Angela's war stories are absolutely terrifying. Brutal.

[@byungmooncho7546]

Absolutely NOT.

[@derickarel7146]

In undergrad physics programs, nobody shuts up about Feynman. Including the professors. Then you find that one black and white vid of young Feynman talking about guessing and checking against experiment, and it's pretty charming. And you're a physics undergrad so that's pretty refreshing and your family keeps asking you about the last episode of Big Bang Theory and Michio Kaku and you need better heroes. But then you encounter him talking about the first time he realized "the female mind" can understand calculus because he alleged to overhear some knitting talk analogous to the concept of slope. And you should squirm uncomfortably, and that should be the end. But...I don't really know how to end this. Thank you Angela Collier, great channel.

[@lolmao500]

Kaku is so freaking annoying and full of himself, almost as much as Avi Loeb. lol

[@nathanbruce1992]

Product of his era. You can nitpick using modern moral lenses and you’ll find something to hate every historical figure about. Just like us now, you think we won’t be judged for eating meat when they can make it in a lab in 200 years?

[@michael1]

The thing to realise is the future will look negatively on you too for stuff you've done and said. You only have to see how statements of simple fact are treated as bigotry today to know that however much you imagine you haven't committed any thought crimes, and to consider that, unlikely the past, we all say a lot more that is recorded - we have quotes for everyone now, billions of them every day. In the future you are going to be that bad person who makes people squirm uncomfortably. Everyone is.

[@GSBarlev]

His pedagogical skills are also vastly overrated. I have never heard of a university using the Feynman Lectures as a textbook and, IIRC, the students who took his classes failed at an *extremely high rate.*

[@timdrozinski1653]

In all fairness, Isaac Newton probably also didn't think "the female mind" could understand calculus. People who lived 50+ years ago generally had some really strange ideas compared to today, and in 50 more years people will think we're just as strange.

[@dubtak4976]

My uncle says that he met Feynman once. When he learned my uncle spoke French and lived in France, Feynman started doing the French gibberish thing. My uncle realized shortly that those weren't actually French words, but did marvel that it seemed to be a good imitation of French sounds, just not in the right order. So no, didn't "assume he was speaking a different dialect". Realized it was gibberish and was somewhat amused that it could somewhat pass for the real language assuming that the listener didn't actually speak any French. Feynman would've probably told it as "managing to fool an English professor living in France."

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

If you're trying to hide the fact you can't actually speak French, would you start speaking French to a Frenchman? Does that sound like something a smart person would do? Feynman can be smart & arrogant. But he can't be dumb & arrogant.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

@@user-zu1ix3yq2w No, no, no. SMART people do DUMB things all the time. I assure you. Humans are complicated and hardly employ their logic universally. It's why you can get a genius who believes ludicrous things. .

[@BobAxiom]

If Einstein said that Maxwell should come before him on the list, we should believe Einstein. “… on the shoulders of Maxwell” ✅

[@GSBarlev]

I'm sure it's at least partially a function of the era he worked during, but I also have never heard a single word negative about Maxwell-not that he was abusive towards his spouse or had inappropriate relations with a student or blood relative, not that he was a eugenicist or anti-suffrage, not even that he undermined a rival's career.

[@trolloftime5340]

I misread Einstein as eminem for a sec and I was like “yo what is eminem on about”

[@rbaxter286]

@@GSBarlev I've heard some comments on one channel on 'stealth tech' that outright says Maxwell was not very nice to people not as smart as he was, and he almost always considered himself the smartest person in the room ..., smartest in all objective probability, but not someone with a good sense of humanity ...

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I'm just imagining Einstein and Maxwell in a big trench coat trying to get into the movies.

[@bk04ft]

Probably all great physicists would give similar credit to previous work they built on. Except Euler. "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

[@crochambeau]

As a U.S. citizen I have been musing recently on how absolutely detrimental cult of personality can be. This video looks like it's going to be a somewhat painful watch (I enjoy the surface level Feynman mythos), but I have a feeling I'll be in a better place on the other side of it. I give you thanks!

[@eqwerewrqwerqre]

I agree, i just think his books and things are fun. It didn't take very many chapters for it to become obvious that many stories are heartily extended for gaffs, goofs, and the occasional philosophy. I think it would be crazy to believe everything he ever wrote lmao. But apart from the personality i do still idolize his contributions to theoretical physics. The path integral, quantum electrodynamics, even just down to the integral trick he popularized. I remember him centrally for his ability to communicate physics very very well, his intelligence and contributions to the field, and his warm personality. But we all must know the tragedies of the world these days, so i will proceed to watch this video and hope it's at least unbiased. I trust Angela though

[@ghostD0C]

Her most painful videos tend to be the most insightful.

[@AlanCanon2222]

Same. It stings but it's the whole truth. Or at least more of it.

[@piotrd.4850]

Noble prize winner, participant of Manhattan Project, Challanger accident investigatior. And you compare him to living definiton of fraud and hype?

[@pingukutepro]

Most of people are subject to cult of personality no matter where they are. North Korea had 1 cult of personality but in the U.S you have multiple

[@MarcusKovesi]

The Ghost Writing bombshell is AMAZING. I have a friend who’s a ghostwriter, and the people who commission her genuinely think of themselves as having written the book. They think of her as a keyboard that they are typing on. It’s like those insufferable people who call AI image generators a tool, and that they are the real genius artist for coming up with the prompt. It’s astounding.

[@KlausJLinke]

"Ghost writing"? The contents of "Surely you're joking, Mr. Fineman" are transcripts of audio recordings. If you believe Professors don't "write" their speeches, lectures, commencement addresses..., and can't tell the difference between an "editor" (Leighton) and an "author" (Feynman), you never worked in academia, or you are Angela Collier.

[@GH-oi2jf]

What's the bombshell? I don't want to listen to this whole thing to get it. "Surely You're Joking" contains anecdotes told to Ralph Leighton, and turned into print by him. The Feynman Lectures are lectures actually given by Feynman, recorded, and put into print form by somebody (Leighton and Sands, I suppose). Is that all? Doesn't everybody know that? Is that supposed to be scandalous?

[@scottwatrous]

I've not ghost written but I've been close-ish to someone who was going through the process of documenting their memoirs and having someone help write it all out. I wouldn't say that he wasn't 'directing' or 'authoring' that effort, but it certainly wouldn't be him doing the writing and I would hope he's not listed as the sole author.

[@maxw565]

Im not saying being an "ai" artist is like bejng actual master painter, but, even that is leagues ahead of being someone that confuses having a ghost writer with being the author themselves

[@KlausJLinke]

@@maxw565 The videos and audio recordings that were transcribed for the book are publicly available. Somehow, one year of reseach was not enough for Angela Collier to provide any examples where the editor Ralph Leighton changed the text significantly, or at all. Three hours was not enough to tell us which passages she re-tells (instead of shows/reads) were removed by the authors' [sic] request before she was born? Or to show us any of the countless misogynistic and sexist passages that allegedly remained in the book, on screen?

[@WallebyDamned]

I feel smarter knowing I've read every book written by Richard Feynman

[@evelynminer8568]

i don't think i've ever seen anyone as genuinely baffled as angela saying "YOU CAN JUST GO TO A STRIP CLUB" lol

[@TCMcBiscuits]

For a while I thought you couldn't, but I think I was just confusing strip clubs with Mordor.

[@mrIceblink]

well she doesn't even get the "how do you exit from vi?" joke, so maybe some limitations in wit there

[@XatxiFly]

man: hehe I liek hot ladies the field of physics: OMG HE'S SO QUIRKY 😆 HE'S SO WACKY 😆 HE'S SO MUCH NOBODY'S EVER BEEN THIS MUCH OMGGG THIS MAN IS THE WILDEST CRAZIEST CHARACTER ONLY A GENIUS COULD BE THIS WILD 😆 LOOK AT HIM HE'S KILLIN ME 😆😆😆

[@ahuman8657]

I watched 15 minutes of this video and thought "what could you possibly talk about for 2.5 more hours?" And now I'm almost 2 hours in can't stop watching lol. Your perspective is so valuable to the world right now.

[@brogansmith1342]

Oh boy, we've arrived at the moment when the videos become very ambitious and the FOV gets wider

[@djason338]

I hope that doesn't mean Angela starts uploading once every 11 months

[@langerjunge]

In her hbomberguy era

[@WillYouVid]

@@djason338 she just skipped one week, chill mate ^^ I'm really liking this video and I need to pace it cause there's just so much perspective to gain on topics that don't seem to be on the radar of many people

[@drbuckley1]

This is Academy Award quality. Long-form KZbin category. I watched the entire thing, in one setting, and remained captivated. Really great.

[@Amethyst_Friend]

Go check out her video on sexual harassment in academia. It's about the second one she ever made

[@Philiqification]

We have a version of these guys in philosophy too. Usually they've read one book from one of the "edgy" philosophers like Nietzsche, not understood it, but still retained the confidence that they are the smartest person in the entire faculty and will prattle on during lectures, while the lecturers try to give them not so subtle hints that they're talking out of their ass. Usually they drop out after 1 or 2 semesters, but some of them graduate and never grow out of it.

[@anabasis3144]

8:55 Outstanding Angela, you’ve nailed it again. I’m 54 years old, I knew about Richard Feynman from being a precocious teen who read Scientific American instead of magazines about wrestling or sports cars, and it wasn’t acceptable then. We all knew that. It’s just that people were able to get away with boorish behavior as long as they were interesting and quirky in a way that could be lauded at dinner parties.

[@richtomlinson7090]

Yup, it's the New York City storyteller accent and other things. Sometimes, they come off as being an unfiltered stovepipe, talking fast and loud, whatever comes to mind.

[@hariseldon-d2p]

Sadly I think people like this can still get away with it...

[@justmoritz]

@@hariseldon-d2paway with it? They become the most powerful people in the world. This is the bad place.

[@poppers7317]

Schrödinger was way worse.

[@uchimatador]

the twitter account larping as Feynman is an incredible piece of foreshadowing

[@magic8ball237]

foreshadowing is indeed a literary device

[@tesseraph]

42:28 "you know of Richard Feynman the famous physicist, but do you know Murray Gell-Mann" sounds like a physics version of Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer

[@scotts5636]

"Sounds like a physics version of Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer." - If only you knew how on the nose this is.

[@arcuscotangens]

This weirdly reminds me of when I realized that all the 'cool' stories my dad used to tell were just about him being a dick.

[@emilybaker9703]

"A Swede came up to me, big strong guy, tears in eyes, and said 'Sir, your accent is so beautiful, but I must not know your dialect.'" -Richard P. Feynman

[@DahVoozel]

His accent was the best, the most beautiful accent. People often complement him on that accent, people who know a lot about accents. They're all talking about it.

[@cosmiccabbage4458]

That Swede's name? Alfred Nobel.

[@Alex-fv2nt]

omg this reads like a trump quote

[@tommylakindasorta3068]

@@cosmiccabbage4458 I assumed it was Frank Stallone.

[@GSBarlev]

I'd like to think that Feynman relayed that story with a winking sarcasm or that Leighton recorded it with dramatic irony, but nothing in what we know of either man suggests they possessed any degree of self-awareness.

[@cmdrconger9240]

It'll never not baffle me how underappreciated Maxwell's work appears to be in the public's eye. And sometimes when there is a list of the "most important physicists" and the name does come up, it's near the end.

[@qbishop1]

Touché!

[@jamesleishman8025]

I'd put Gibbs in that list too

[@maksimyasko2092]

I'd put Boltzmann

[@solconcordia4315]

​@@maksimyasko2092 Yes, indeed. Boltzmann was seminal in making the concept of atoms central to physics in the 20th century (which was the century of quantum theory, atomic and nuclear science, radars, transistors, lasers, optical fibers, information age).

[@solconcordia4315]

​@@jamesleishman8025 The triumph of vector algebra over quaternion algebra, Grassmannian algebra (and Clifford algebra) led to Physics' fragmentation into numerous mathematical fiefdoms ruled by the various flavors of higher mathematics with their disparate notations instead of the universal geometric algebra originally envisioned by Leibniz. Higher Mathematics became the stumbling block for most people to be able to understand and do physics and hindered the unification of Physics for at least one century. No, Gibbs shouldn't be honored because of his being a culprit in the travesty.

[@DeathMetalHippee]

14:45 As an autistic person I can say you have touched on a real problem within the autistic community. Some genuinely treat their autism like an excuse to be inconsiderate to others.

[@marocat4749]

Yep, is ther edeserved leeway, yes, but its more social phopars, not about trying to be respectful, thewr is no excuse to not trying to be respectful to people, at least generally ,

[@squelchedotter]

I find this is far more often applied by allistic people to excuse our behavior than by people who actually understand what autism is.

[@orterves]

I imagine if it was possible to "cure" Autism, those people would still be assholes

[@thecynicalone7655]

It promotes ableism by infantilizing people with autism, or neurodivergent people more generally

[@voidify3]

I’m autistic (not a man, genderqueer AFAB) and I struggle with seeing this discourse sometimes because autism DOES make it more likely to be rude by accident. But after some thinking I see the difference- I’ve been accidentally inconsiderate to people in the past, but the difference is I feel embarrassed about it in retrospect even though it was an accident and try to be alert about it going forward. Now there’s also nuance to be had about the culture of shame and self-hatred and hypervigilance among people like me and how it gets unhealthy sometimes (I have many clear memories of being laughed at for an innocuous faux pas and it caused severe social anxiety for years)- the "it's not an excuse" discourse can SOMETIMES verge on the ableist authority figure logic of "there's no such thing as being rude on accident, if you behave rudely to someone it always means you hate them and are doing it on purpose to hurt them", and we've got to be careful to stay out of there But it IS definitely true that autism does NOT excuse these guys’ behaviour, even though autism makes it more likely to be rude by accident, because the thing with these guys is they aren’t even trying to consider in retrospect how their actions have affected others. (There's an interesting conversation on this topic about how our society doesn't push boys to develop emotional awareness but this comment is already long enough)

[@samuelagboola]

Angela - you should come to the UK. I studied Physics here and never encountered the Feynman bro thing. I think it's because we all are violently culturally suspicious of all and any forms of self-agrandisement. Feynman reads to the average Brit as, to use a local phrase, a "wanker". Luckily of us Newton was pre-social media and we just ignore the alchemy.

[@kc5402]

Richard Feynman was a very notable physicist. You have no right to try to represent an entire UK physics community with your ill-informed comments. That is a form of arrogance and self-aggrandisement. (Note the correct spelling please.)

[@andrewwhitehead2002]

​@@kc5402It's a stereotype but there's a lot of truth in what Samuel writes. I'm from the UK too and I've never met a Feynman fan boy either. We do however not have anything like enough women coming into physics.

[@sensorer]

Do you also ignore the fact that Newton died a virgin?

[@JuanSmithers]

@@sensorer and that's relevant because...?

[@naedanger123]

@@sensorerWho cares lmao

[@CptSoundBeard]

I have to say, the "Richard Feynman didn't write any books" revelation kind of just piqued my interest for some reason, but hearing that the layout of the first book mistakenly gave people the impression that it was an autobiography made my jaw literally drop and I have no idea why it hit so hard lol

[@kc5402]

Some people just don't seem to bother to read the introduction to books. That's their problem.

[@GH-oi2jf]

Anybody who thought "Surely ..." was an autobiography just doesn't know what an autobiography is. It is just a collection of anecdotes, but they are Feynnan's anecdotes. The fact that he spoke them instead of wrote them is of no importance.

[@ronh4658]

I would have thought refusing to read a play about a man making a deal with the devil only to make the world a worse place and lose connection to people he loves, then going on to work on the Manhattan Project, was an artistic flourish. But now in context, I’m thinking this entirely slipped by him.

[@KlausJLinke]

In the story, Feynman says he actually read the play, but could not make head or tails of it, so he was unwilling to do the assignment and write an essay on the morals of the story. He wrote an essay about a topic he actually understood, and put in a few sentences at the end that related it to what is in the play. The moral seemed to be that you should not force children to make up BS on something they don't understand... But "Feynman was a science bro who was dismissive of the arts" fits better into this video essay.

[@ronh4658]

@@KlausJLinke Hey, thanks for the extra detail! That at least has a perspective I can understand in an era before wikipedia, clif notes, or other more accessible resources.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

@@KlausJLinke You know, his IQ was purportedly "only" 120. Which, in the context of this story, actually makes sense. He was nowhere near the polyglot others like Einstein, Poincare and Von Neuman were. His language/verbal intelligence left a lot to be desired (perhaps because he didn't read a lot of books as a child). You'd think a genius like Feynman could understand Faust. I mean, like, really? If children should not be forced to make up BS on something they don't understand, can't that same logic be applied to children who don't understand, say trigonometry, but are forced to complete homework assignments on it? I get that Feynman bros love the guy but, for a genius, he had several intellectual weak spots and wasn't nearly as diverse in his thinking as I assumed he would be.

[@KlausJLinke]

@@feynmanschwingere_mc2270 Congrats I guess if you fully understood the ethics of Faust as a child, simply by reading it. I would not force a child to write about trigonometry, if it had not been taught about trigonometry, and "Faust" isn't an introductory course to Ethics 101. I think the story does show that young Feynman thought about ethics more than children that just followed the assignment.

[@vivian.taylor]

I do like "Feynman bro," but I'd like to suggest "Feyn-boy" because I think it's funny that the portmanteau kinda sounds like "fanboy" already.

[@Lufernaal]

thank God for @vivian.taylor

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

what about the Feynwomen?

[@DamienPalmer]

@ what about the ROUSes?

[@notmyname687]

Bonus: it replaces "man" with "boy".

[@-biki-]

feynboiii

[@s13rr4buf3]

I'm a 51 yo, relatively smart female, and I've always loved Richard Feynman. I first learned of him in a Physics Today magazine that I saw sitting in the science room in my high school. He had just passed away. But I have always felt uncomfortable with his interactions with women. Unfortunately, you're not going to find many heroes in the past without giving them a waiver for chauvinism. It does make me very sad. If you're asking what he's admired for, I thought it was pretty understood that he was admired for being able to explain physics to the layman. That's what he's famous for. Six Easy Pieces. His lectures are very funny and entertaining. "We used to believe that the planets were moved by angels pushing them from behind, flapping their wings. As you will see, this theory has now been modified..." He also gave some pretty solid social insights, such as stop bowing to men who wear fancy hats, like the Pope. I'm sure you can appreciate how rare it was to find outspoken atheist back in the day. Vanishingly rare.

[@nathanaels4195]

Being an atheist is cringe

[@discursion]

I realized that one of the things about your video that bring me joy is the fact that you've found an eager and sizeable audience through casually discussing these topics. It's quite hopeful and nice.

[@Rockyzach88]

I feel like we're on the verge of a deep analysis of our culture through the past 100 years or more. There's a lot of good culture analysis media popping up. Also, science history and culture is very important for future students IMO. We are connected to our history more than we think and we can not just learn a lot about our culture, but it will help us learn about scientific concepts and why specifically they popped up in the first place. I think this adds a dimension to learning that is very helpful and one we've overlooked.

[@glowerworm]

Highly recommend Jenny Nicholson if you like this content. She's got a way with formulating thoughts, great charisma. Also ProbablyJacob if you like video games or oftentimes insane alien/cryptid theories. He's got a lovable snark I always found similar to Angela and Jenny. His video most similar to this format is "is cryptozoology just American shinto?"

[@nnhhkk867]

@@glowerworm Big fan of both Jenny and Angela, think I've seen 1 (one) ProbablyJacob vid in the past and it didn't jive w me that much. 'Is cryptozoology just American shinto?' made my ears perk up like a dog hearing it's time for walkies, yesss! An intersection of my interests!!! Will be checking him out, thanks for the rec. (And sorry for the exclamation marks lol.)

[@FDL_1401]

A few minutes in and i learn that Feynman was a misogynist and Schroedinger was a WHAT DID YOU SAY

[@grepora]

Horndog.

[@abstract5249]

A cat. Schrodinger was a cat.

[@misslayer999]

Right? I didn't know that before either. I googled it and yeah, unfortunately he was.

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

If it makes you feel better, right up until you learned that he both was and wasn't.

[@zihaofang-kl3yq]

Schroedinger’s age of consent.

[@orthochronicity6428]

Coming from theoretical particle physics, I'm continuously surprised how little of Feynman's physics is actually relevant. The part of Feynman's work that he did that I've ever used is QED and Feynman variables. Feynman variables are an integration technique, sort of like u-substitutions but more complicated. QED would be quite significant, but he's extremely lucky to have gotten credit for that. Frank CLose in "The Infinity Puzzle" discusses a lot of this history, but Schwinger had completely finished QED and presented it over two days at a conference. Feynman was almost completely forgotten at that conference, and the most notable thing about his presentation was how bad it was. All he had were a bunch of Stueckelberg diagrams (they had yet to be renamed after Feynman), couldn't explain any of the math, had no conceptual explanations of anything he was talking about, and no concrete results from his work to indicate that he had really done something. Dirac asked him a question which may not have been adequately answered (hard to tell with Dirac -- he simply moved back to the wall he had been standing at). Bohr got so annoyed with Feynman being unable to answer his question, that he went up to the stage, took the chalk out of Feynman's hand, and began lecturing Feynman on basic quantum mechanics. Feynman, in interviews and probably his dictated 'writings', is quite upfront with trying to create a facade for himself and a mythos around him and was happy to play politics to that end... which is exactly what you need to do with the Nobel committee in order to win the prize. Partons? Bjorken, who recently died this past year, worked out the quart model based on Gell-Mann's Eightfold Way (Gell-Mann actually never thought quarks were real and, being an asshole himself, had no problem yelling at people for being morons for thinking quarks existed... right up until they were discovered). The parton model was a competing model that didn't explain the data while Bjorken did, was used to explain the data, and was the theoretical model that SLAC was trying to validate and the only reason anyone thought it was worth searching for quarks. Even with the Challenger disaster, it wasn't just the General that Sally Ride had talked to. Multiple people had figured it out (possibly only because of Sally Ride's initial tip, it's not clear on how many groups may have been involved behind the scenes) but for various political reasons, didn't want to be the person to present the information and wanted the independent scientist to be the person. So, Feynman had multiple people asking him questions about the weather, and material properties, and o-rings. And it wasn't until one of the other committee members had him over for dinner, and then, after dinner, brought him into his garage and showed him an o-ring and a glass of ice water. It was only then did he put it all together. In retrospect he realized that he was only there to be the guy to present what everyone already knew and that everyone was leading him by the nose while he thought he was being some trailblazing, iconoclastic, maverick doing whatever he wanted. He's talked about this explicitly, and I don't understand how people listen to this and think he was the trailblazing, iconoclastic, maverick. Female Feynman Bros do exist (I usually refer them to Feynman cultists, and the Bros may be a subset of that). Probably the first time I realized something was wrong with the mythology was a conversation I had with two grads during my undergrad. One of them had gone to a university down in Southern California for his undergrad (not Caltech, one of the UCs though I don't remember which one) and one of the professors there was an emeritus professor who professor who apparently spent her time just hanging out around the department (now that she was emeritus) and saying things like, "Feynman gave me all the physics that I could swallow". The other grad worked with my advisor and she said absolutely nothing during either that exchange or as I tried to explain to the first grad how disturbing and inappropriate all of this was. I think about this exchange a lot... The second time I realized things were rotten with the cult (that there was a cult) was when I finally looked up whole 'bongo drums caused his second wife to divorce him'. I'm really glad that got included in this video (I had written out the explanation about an hour before). The legend always sat weird with me because how do you marry someone like Feynman and not know, at least, that he would be thinking about math a lot of the time and also hate him for doing math? Finally looking up the divorce papers (thanks FBI surveillance and FOIA?) and seeing the actual reason -- violent rages -- that gets let out of the legend was eye opening. She wasn't some fun-hating idiot who couldn't appreciate math, but rightfully fearful for her life and needed to escape a psycho. The cult of Feynman needs to die.

[@wubanizer]

Can I get a source for the dirac anecdote and the fbi files? Id like to dig into those

[@orthochronicity6428]

@@wubanizer The Dirac anecdote comes from "The Infinity Puzzle" by Frank Close, and he includes citations in the book. The FBI files are searchable -- Angela showed the relevant ones on screen; it's been well over a decade since I looked them up, and don't remember how off hand, so your googling would be quicker than waiting for me to do it. I don't have a source off hand for the surveillance specifically but it's fairly well known that everyone involved in the Manhattan program was being tracked by the FBI following the war. This was especially true for anyone with communist sympathies, which the FBI kinda of assumed out of hand regardless, but they were suspicious of Feynman (iirc his second wife told them she thought he was a socialist, but they decided, if he was, he wasn't much of a threat).

[@wubanizer]

@@orthochronicity6428 I'm reading David Bohms biography right now and he got caught in that socialist hunting too. Actually he ended up exiled in Brazil for a time. Thanks for your thoughtful response, I appreciate it.

[@dercoder015]

Very insightful, thanks for the write-up

[@ic7481]

Using your personality and fame to take advantage of impressionable university students is messed up (evil in fact), especially if you are in a position authority. Such a person should not be lauded and held up as a hero, because this then tells young men that this sort of behaviour is acceptable...

[@wormedw]

I was gifted 'surely you're joking' as part of some reward program my school had. This book was also recommended to me by both my physics and math teacher. And like, at that point in my life I already started becoming aware of how harmful this kind of ultra masculine media was and what it did to me so I didn't get hooked, but I can so easily see an alternate timeline where I'm given this book as a young boy and things don't go well for me

[@arkamukhopadhyay9111]

@@wormedw are you, by any chance, in the process of transitioning? ⁷

[@polly7017]

"I'm sure that female Feynman bros exist" Oh my God, at least one does. I dated an incredibly toxic female physics grad student obsessed with Richard Feynman and this video explains so much. Angela, I wish I had seen this video first and known what a red flag that was.

[@H._sapiens]

I was a female Feynman fan in STEM who already hated his misogyny and assholeness. But I never met the Feynman Bro criteria. Many of the stories in Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman are about Feynman tricking people into thinking he's something he's not, especially making him look smarter, which calls into question everything he says. For example, IIRC, he tried to solemnly troll a colleague into thinking he could do a large calculation in his head summing terms through pure brain power, when he actually had found a mathematical shortcut. Multiple stories like this should clue the reader into realizing he's an unreliable narrator. This is in addition to what Angela already discussed about his unbelievable interactions with women, and faking speaking a language to a native speaker. She explained why these are fake better than I ever could. It was deeply cathartic. After watching this, I am no longer a Feynman fan and feel embarrassed, but like before, there are some useful lessons to learn from him (and most male scientists and authors) that are unrelated to their misogyny. For example, he showed it's possible to simplify scientific explanations so it's more accessible.

[@bricaaron3978]

@@H._sapiens *"misogyny"* What evidence do you have that Mr. Feynman hated women?

[@-tera-3345]

@@bricaaron3978 Why are you commenting on a video you haven't watched?

[@govindnair3064]

@@bricaaron3978watch the video before making ridiculous comments

[@belaknworb3548]

@@bricaaron3978 EYOOOOOOOOO WE GOT A DEBRATE BRO IN THE HOUSE Y'ALL SQUARE UP, THEY'RE COMING AT US WITH TATTOOS ON THEIR KNUCKLES ONE READS "FACTS" THE OTHER READS "LOGIC"

[@joseapar]

Angela, what an absolute tour de force! I want to thank you and acknowledge all the hard work you put into this, way more than many others would have done, but i have to be honest, the thing that struck me the most and the thing that not only shows your intelligence but care about the subject is the the note on physical abuse, and proving resources. Again, not that you need to hear it from me or anyone, but i just want to thank you and acknowledge the work that went into this video essay.

[@mstaehely]

I feel like the point about him speaking gibberish can't be overstated. Like- there's no WAY they thought he was speaking a dialect they didn't understand. They were soothing the ego of the Great Man, because embarrassing him in public would have been far, far worse for them. It's honestly disgusting.

[@nnhhkk867]

Thank you, I agree 100%. That anecdote in particular really ticked me off as an immigrant who's had people be casually xenophobic to me. With the misogyny it's like 'disappointed, but not surprised,' unfortunately. There's plenty of precedent for nerdbro misogyny, but I can't say I've ever heard of something like that. It's almost cruel and unusual. Angela had way more restraint than me in using a Swedish person, my mind immediately went to 'Oh God, he's definitely done this to people from Asia or Africa.' Or just any country not as respected in science as Sweden, the social disparity there is clear. Genuinely shocking he (or those posthumously speaking for him) thinks so little of people that this would work or that this is a charming anecdote to tell people. Imagine a leading figure in your field, probably a personal hero, publicly humiliating and otherising you like that. (TMI but after nervously laughing it off I think I would excuse myself to the bathroom to have a little cry.) Insane lack of awareness. Respect the guy's contributions to physics, but even assuming the majority of the stuff around him is stuff he made up out of insecurity, it just belies such an unpleasant world view I can't think of him as a cool guy on a personal level.

[@desudesudesu5326]

Are we sure Richard Feynman even existed? Maybe it was Ralph Leighton all along.

[@DrVickyHarris]

Thank you so much for this. Always felt uncomfortable about Feynman and his flirting with students. As a woman PhD in physics 30 years ago I’ve always felt he got off on being a show off not contributing to physics. Thank you. ❤

[@terrycole472]

(*Sigh*) Just upvoted your post. And yet, I actually met Feynman (at the Robb lectures) towards the end of his life. Still think he was a great human being, whatever his deficiencies as a man.

[@hellaradusername]

The tip in the water cup thing is a great example of how you can judge people based on how they treat service industry workers.

[@DioJeans]

I’ve ghosted people after a date because they tipped poorly/treated the server like trash.

[@greggstrasser5791]

@@DioJeans Date a lot of Jews, do you?

[@brandonthesteele]

I kinda floated through "Surely You're Joking!" when I read it 10 years ago and was overall charmed by it. That one stuck out as him just being a, well, dick.

[@vlpvlp5841]

On the other hand it's funny how smart and quirky mr Feynman doesn't realise a serious risk of getting spit in his coffe the next time.

[@CF565]

​@@DioJeans I have too, bc this is both a) good red-flag identification and self-preservation; and b) the morally correct reaction. There is no truer indicator of capacity-for-empathy than treatment of menial service workers.

[@BenignIndividual]

Contranarian - A person who pronounces words how they want despite being clearly wrong.

[@SquashFactor]

That was perfect, thank you. 😂

[@erenoz2910]

I was one of those kids who got Feynman's books shoved into his face as a teenager. But to me there was another aspect to this myth. Since I was in a third world country across the world from California, it was to me a distant land of legends with physics titans who invented the portable sun. So in that way it was much harder for me to break free of the legend.

[@Heulerado]

Angela never fails to change my mind about stuff I've kept in my brain for far too long

[@aarongittelman2508]

My grandfather was a physicist and met Feynman a couple times. He said he was insufferable.

[@terrycole472]

Yes. He was. Being an enfant terrible was part of his value.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

@@terrycole472 "value" or part of his contrived schtick?

[@meandyouagainstthealgorith5787]

Angela Collier. Famous for dissing Richard Feynman for three hours. On Thanksgiving Day. Okay. I'll watch.

[@askii2004]

@@Blox117 what an asshole you are, begone

[@MenacingBanjo]

@@Blox117 I thought it was pretty good storytelling overall. Which part in particular felt like betching to you?

[@nikoscosmos]

Who's Angela Collier?

[@NyelaKearney]

A lot of my nano-engineering profs quote Feynmans talk "There's plenty of room at the bottom" as the kickoff for quantum engineering.

[@LiteralmenteFadul]

Just in case Angela reads this, I'll have her know I'm dumb as a bag of bricks in regards to physics and still always am fully engaged by her videos.

[@TheMightyFlea-0]

Me too, I'm as thick as dog poo. How scientists' brains work fascinates me, though.

[@terrycole472]

@@TheMightyFlea-0 : I got as far as my honours year before I ran out of money and had to fall back on being an engineer. If it's any consolation, a lot of people fairly good at physics will still admit it makes their heads hurt; me included.

[@terrycole472]

@@Blox117 : She does a nice 'coffee and a problem'. Good enough for me.

[@jessehammer123]

@@Blox117 I’m sorry you don’t find empathy hot. Oh wait, no I’m not.

[@LiteralmenteFadul]

​​@@Blox117the amount of whiny right-wing nonsense in every fucking video on the planet is extremely off puting and egregious. Like seriously get a life.

[@brock2k1]

I just want to quote the part of SYJMF about the waitress and the tip, to show you that Ms. Collier is not exaggerating: 'The next day I came back, and I had a new waitress. My regular waitress wouldn’t have anything to do with me. “Sue’s very angry at you,” my new waitress said. “After she picked up the first glass and water went all over the place, she called the boss out. They studied it a little bit, but they couldn’t spend all day figuring out what to do, so they finally picked up the other one, and water went out _again_, all over the floor. It was a terrible mess; Sue slipped later in the water. They’re _all_ mad at you.” I laughed.' He laughed, because the poor waitress may have been injured, and certainly had to waste her time cleaning up his mess. What an asshole.

[@sapientsatellite]

Omg. Injured by a glass of water. Are you afraid of the shower?

[@orbatos]

I admit, I found the passage funny, when I was 8 to 10. I haven't re-read it since, and this video reinforces my inclination to continue the trend. Given the revelation it's not even an autobiography I realise it's almost written *for* children (despite some of the content) like the Scholastic publications.

[@misslayer999]

Ugh. So fucked up. That alone is enough to make me dislike him.

[@brock2k1]

@@sapientsatellite I'm not afraid of it, but I have a non-slip mat in my tub. Have you ever slipped on water or ice and fallen? Do you think it's funny when someone else does?

[@innovationsanonymous8841]

Sounds like the sort of customer that I run a rogue AP with DNS poison for when waiting tables

[@imacds]

My favorite part was at 2:26:53 - as a survivor of DV (thankfully circumstance/other people forced me to escape a few years ago) I found this call to leave particularly moving. Even now as I write this comment I struggle to not downplay or excuse the abuse I received - there is a sort of Challenger-disaster-style of safety creep of acceptable danger in the received violence that happens when you're psychologically trapped in an abusive relationship. The specific mention of "non-fatal strangulation" is what really gets through to me. It was a thing I've experienced and was especially terrifying, but I downplayed it using bs reasons. What specifically gets through to me is the fact that this term is already downplayed to "non-fatal" - this makes it really sink into me how much I didn't realize or care how much danger I was actually in. I cannot know for sure if this would have been a set of words that would have changed my mind and led me to leave earlier/on my own volition, but I think it is one of the best candidates I've found so far for a set of words that could have. Thank you!!! (apology for the exclamation marks)

[@Zeshan-u9t]

I'm so proud of you and happy that you were able to escape such a horrid situation. You deserve decency, and nothing that happened to you in that situation was your fault. I can only hope that more people are able to get out of such awful and dangerous situations and that their abusers are punished.

[@domenicobarillari2046]

Fabulous, fabulous fabulous - thank you Angela! This has been the long-awaited and well explained takedown that I have been waiting for SINCE 1985! As a physicist, experienced with the occasional brush with folks at a cocktail party or other evening event over this, I now have a place on KZbin to which to send the latest Feynmen acolyte I encounter!! best regards, DKB

[@Pepino_Leonardo]

as someone who's neurodivergent, yes it can result in not picking up social cues or not studying for exams, neither of which are a reason to be an asshole i'm pretty sure

[@eingyi2500]

It's definitely a "reason", but it doesn't exuse it. I've been rude to people before but I let them know I didn't mean anything by it and that I will do better next time, because it's still my responsibility despite being an aspie

[@-tera-3345]

@@eingyi2500 Well, I'd say there's a big difference between being a dick to someone on accident without realizing, then maybe if you do realize later feeling embarrassed about it afterward, and repeatedly telling people stories solely to brag about how much of an asshole you were that one time. Like, if you're truly neurodivergent and don't realize you're doing it, it's probably not going to leave enough of an impression on you to brag about it. At most you'd likely just remember it as a bit of an awkward interaction, not much different from many others you've had.

[@Gabby-o8g]

A Zee was a professor at my undergrad university! Everyone was warned not to take the class he took because he was mean and sexist. He published a paper about the symmetry of womens breasts. A feynman bro through and through

[@Anna-Thea7173]

oh my god i was wondering about how many cans of worms could that guy be worth because ughh

[@greenfloatingtoad]

Gross

[@drbuckley1]

At my undergrad university, lecture halls came with ashtrays built into the seats so that students could smoke in class.

[@zihaofang-kl3yq]

He is too based for you. You don’t deserve to have his children.

[@quarkonium3795]

I wrote a comment about Zee as well but I completely forgot about the paper about breasts! I read about half a page of it before I gave up in horror

[@cr6458]

The worst thing is when you realize that Feynmann bros are endemic to every major. I saw them in psych, philosophy, english, and in my education classes. It's horrible

[@jordonharris9098]

Yep. It’s just narcissistic people

[@nnhhkk867]

@@jordonharris9098 Can we stop calling all assholes narcissists? I'm convinced people don't even know what it means anymore, like sociopath or whatever it was a couple years ago. You can just say 'people are douchey and awful sometimes' without dressing it up in fancier language (thereby making that language useless for the purposes it was originally intended for). Yeah, this is a pet peeve of mine.

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

@@nnhhkk867 Seems like they're projecting. They might be the real narcissist here.

[@nnhhkk867]

@@user-zu1ix3yq2w You're doing it too. ToT You can just say they're using trendy meaningless (originally not so) language a bit thoughtlessly without jumping to wackadoodle conclusions about how they're a bad dude, so THEY must be the bad word of the minute. Everyone does this to some extent IMO (as in dressing up people being crappy in overwrought political/psych language). I'd just prefer we think about it a bit more and perhaps go, 'Maybe I shouldn't do that, actually.' I'm not tryna Uno reverse card anyone lol. Maybe my original comment came off angrier IDK.

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

@@nnhhkk867 I called it. You're one of the dumber autists. You know, being an autist doesn't make you smart. The reality is cr & jordan are both assholes. They're both engaging in classic narcistic behavior. They might not have NPD - perhaps just your normal standard of selfishness. You know what I wrote? I said they MIGHT be the real narcissist here. Too bad you don't know how to read.

[@sideways5153]

It says a lot about our society that Dr Collier spent an hour more speaking about Star Trek than she did about the only physicist who thought outside the box Thank god for long videos. Love these they’re so good

[@EvilCoffeeInc]

It's funny how your description of Feynman Bros lines up perfectly with computer science students, except it's like 90% of compsci students and they aren't even trying to emulate one guy in particular, just the general vibe of smarter-than-you grifty weirdos

[@kiesta0740]

This is the personality of at least half the men in my compsci classes. It is absolutely insane how accurate you are but also incredibly unfortunate

[@pedrob3953]

Steve Jobs or Elon Musk is their Feynman. Hell, pick any famous tech CEO.

[@innovationsanonymous8841]

Almost hits close to home. I refused to buy or read text books or cram for tests. But then again, I minimized the amount of time I spent outside the lab or sleeping. I ended up reading (and taking extensive notes on) precisely two computer science textbooks because they were gifted by professors for extracurricular studies. Also, it's not good practice to write code without opening the docs... for each line that is written.

[@ianbaram3043]

writing this at 1:21:00 so idk if angela gets into this, but re: him worrying about not seeming manly, there's a very popular stereotype of jewish men being nebbishy and unmanly and effeminate. as someone who grew up in new york he was definitely dealing with these sorts of stereotypes

[@Nicoder6884]

Good old antisemitism...

[@xBINARYGODx]

your post sounds like damage control - many people faced those stereotypes and most of them were not sexists assholes about it. Probably you are not damage control on purpose, but whatever - its youtube in 2024... the higher chance belongs to the outcome where you are actually a sexist and also anti-human AI.

[@SundayMeal]

12:25 i consider the experience of realizing you are not the smartest person in the room very valuable for my development as a person and a scientist that everybody trying to do science should have. It motivated me to work harder. Sad to hear it discourages some people.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

Dear Angela, You've committed the very sin you're chastising in this video. For future notice, if you're going to cite great, famous basketball players: Kobe Bryant > Lebron James (same as Maxwell > Feynman). Being famous doesn't make you great. LeBron is the Hans Bethe of basketball players but with much better propaganda. Kobe won 5 rings, two without another Elite teammate that averaged over 20ppg. LeBron has never won a ring without an Elite teammate averaging LESS than 20+ ppg. LeBron has been credibly accused of taking PEDs - and has never denied the accusations. He's played for 22+ years, with more All Star teammates, ALL-NBA teammates, and Olympians than any player in NBA history, only to go 4 - 6 in the NBA Finals, despite stacking the deck in his favor. He's stacked ESPN with pro-LeBron sycophants who ignore any negative storyline while over-aggrandizing every little good thing he does. Ironically, many "real" basketball nerds think LeBron is criminally overrated. It's a delicious irony when one commits the very offense they purport to be debunking. Feynman is famous; LeBron is famous. But why? LeBron has 4 rings, same as Steph Curry (but Bron has far more turnovers and finals losses). Feynman is similarly famous, but for reasons that don't necessarily have much to do with his actual performance as a physicist. LeBron = Feynman (except Feynman was a much better physicist than LeBron is as a basketball player). This is the fundamental danger with using analogies. There's an entire industry of independent KZbin content creators solely devoted to debunking pro-LeBron propaganda, that's how loathed he is. He was booed at the 2021 Super Bowl (in Los Angeles). Charles Barkley, and several other legendary basketball players, don't even have him in their top 5 players all time. LeBron's greatest achievement is carefully curating an image so CASUAL FANS - like yourself - think he's much better than he is due to his own media agency, Klutch Sports, filling the upper management of ESPN and Fox Sports with LeBron sycophants who white-wash away any and all negative storylines about him while he continues to erode the competitive integrity of NBA basketball. Look it up, TV Ratings for the NBA are way down with LeBron as the face of the league while other sports like the NHL and MLB and NFL continue to see a RISE in Nielson Ratings (because live sports are still a great boon for sponsors in a decentralized media market). Please, never compare LeBron James to Einstein, Newton, or even, dare I say, Richard Feynman. You are unwittingly insulting these great thinkers. I agree with this video by the way, Feynman is overrated. Julian Schwinger was just as great and just as important as Feynman, but far lesser known. The three greatest physicists of all time are easy: Einstein, Newton, Maxwell. Easy. After that, the debate starts. The two greatest basketball players of all time are Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. After that, the debate starts. Sincerely, A Basketball Nerd

[@Kyfow]

I don't know why but that was a very satisfying read

[@landinggreenmedia565]

I am also a basketball nerd and you are very wrong. Lebron James is quite a lot better than kobe was and ranks as number 2 for me and a lot of people, probably most people. Also, your argument sounds ridiculous when you think about it. You said "Kobe won 3 championships with a 20+ ppg scorer and 2 without while lebron won all his championships with 20ppg scorers." What the hell is that argument. Are we forgetting that Kobe didnt just play with a 20ppg scorer, he played with Shaquille O'neal. He literally averaged 30ppg on the lakers and lead the team with Kobe being the number 2. To act like that is remotely comparable to Lebron playing with someone like Kyrie irving is ridiculous. Also, why is th 4-10 finals record used againat him so much. I find it way more impressive to have deeper playoff runs then to not have a playoff run at all. Think about it, is it more impressive to make the finals or to not even make the playoffs. The steriods thing is dumb as well. If you are going to believe that lebron is taking steriods (which there is a decebt chance he is), then wouldnt you think that most the league including Kobe Bryant were also taking steroids.

[@TheAnonymousMrGreen]

It's 7am the day after thanksgiving, I was watching this video cozy in bed in my old room at my dad's house, i wasn't even considering getting up for another hour. But smug-ass Richard Feynman telling me to be a tooth brush skeptic made me get up and brush my teeth out of spite, so thank you

[@foobarbazbaa5598]

Deeply offended. Ghostbusters is absolutely one of the greatest movies of all time.

[@showlowitsqueentlee2737]

Thanks. Agree.

[@bubblewrapmonster8801]

KFC is the greatest food of all time! Drake is the greatest singer/songwriter of all time!

[@Tamacat388]

Yea I was thinking a lot of people would unironically put Ghostbusters up there. Idk why. But they do it and do so loudly

[@sergiosarmiento4371]

I agree, I think a better examples would've been Endgame or Avatar.

[@andrewz4718]

Ghostbusters was a real unique movie that resonated with people in a similar way the first two do so not the best choice. I agree something like Endgame or Jurassic Park would have been a better fit.

[@mtslybot78]

I'm a guy in my mid-40's. I found that Feynman book in the bookstore in my early 20's. Not a physicist, but math and physics were always my main jam in school. At that age I read it, I liked it well enough, and some part of me wanted to emulate an interesting character. But the older I got, when I would reflect on the book, I would think, "was that really a good book? was there any substance? wasn't he kind of egotistical and immature?' I definitely was never a "Feynman bro', but my underdeveloped brain did romanticized his character. When I started watching your videos, you subtly validated my 'reFeynd' opinion with your light jabs at his legacy ... also I forgot about the exclamation points! Back then I gaslit myself believing I just wasn't fluent enough in 'literature' to comprehend how to interpret them!

[@bendafyddgillard]

I feel like I got a much more layered and realistic impression of Richard Feynman from this video, thank you. It makes sense that a certain amount of his reputation for misogyny would come from exaggerated stories his fragile masculinity told.

[@ConductiveFoam]

"this is not a redemption video" you're right, it's so much more interesting and valuable!

[@beakermadness1]

This feels like "Rich dad, poor dad: physics edition". I am sorry you had to read all this, but it was fascinating.

[@XatxiFly]

Poor Dad always said to keep my head down and deescalate a urinal fight. Rich Dad taught me you can cut a piss hole through your enemies, all for under minimum wage.

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

@@XatxiFly LMAOOOOOOOOO

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

Most self-help books are garbage.

[@voidify3]

49:17 VERY funny that "RPF" is his initials, because in my circles that stands for "real person fanfic"... which is an accurate description of Surely You're Joking

[@emmad8531]

For me it stands for Ruelle Perron Frobenius

[@PixelPumpkin]

@@emmad8531 The Replica Prop Forum

[@ashleyw3326]

What we’ve learned today is that daddy issues are one hell of a drug. This video is something I didn’t know I needed. 10/10 will be recommending.

[@unvergebeneid]

0:56 Did you purposefully omit Michio Kaku so you didn't have to go on an entirely different rage-filled tangent?

[@iguananaut]

Came here to say this

[@MattHudsonAtx]

She is sticking to scientists

[@diamondthree]

Isn't Michio Kaku just a hype man anyway? Like Bill Nye?

[@fract6511]

OMG, to think that all Feynman stories are told by a 50 yo professor to a young gullible 20 yo makes so much sense now, his popularity, the fandom, it's all so clear... He was the Elon Musk of his time

[@NancyTiddles]

Lmao in a lot of ways it feels like the Socratic problem, where the stories of how he always got the better of everyone, can partly be explained by the fact that our sources are all from the kids he taught who idolized him. I don't think that by itself makes Plato or the Ralph Leighton books less interesting though, just that the historical reading becomes more complicated

[@peterkerj7357]

@@NancyTiddles aristophanes erasure

[@fract6511]

@@NancyTiddles This is so necessary. In case of Plato, we are removed enough from the time to see it objectively while in the modern world of social media you can't hide things from getting out long enough. This legacy of Feynman lies in the sweet spot. This has been such an eye opener( even though I had only passing recognition of Feynman and his "books")

[@NancyTiddles]

@@peterkerj7357 guilty as charged 😂

[@NancyTiddles]

@@fract6511 I'm a little skeptical how objective we can be about something so temporally and culturally removed. Especially me because I'm not a classicist. Then again, these are humanities not sciences, so I also question a little bit centering analysis on objectivity 🤷. I think there's room for a lot of different kinds of readings of any text

[@glswain]

i just heard the sound of Aaron Sorkin feverishly adapting Feynman’s book into a biopic.

[@a_8764]

lmao

[@marocat4749]

Dont, he might come up with that in that idea XD

[@Roger-m1k]

I can verify that in the 80s and 90s the math/physics grad students that I knew considered Feynman to be a self-promoting narcissist and sexist. I think the physics department at Caltech was kind of helpless to reign him in, what with his Nobel Prize (also he wasn't the unique egotist there). His expressed ethos in the book was already considered abhorrent; many people thought of him as an object lesson in how not to behave. The guy was born in 1918, so yeah, different times, but I think that students in the 80s, 90s, and 00s were per-capita in many ways more considerate of woman than young men are today. Too many young men these days have been sucked into incel mindsets through online media and gaming communities. These entitled pricks lack real-world experience, but think they know everything "because internet". They probably love Feynman's book. I'm sad to hear about your experiences at university, but at the undergraduate level in a physics program, it sadly doesn't surprise me in slightest.

[@GSBarlev]

Hollywood, listen up: Angela has teed up a *goldmine* of a film-an adaptation of _Surely You're Joking,_ *leaning in all the way* into the dramatic irony angle. Feyman spends the whole film going around doing incredibly cringey things thinking he's awesome while everyone around him is just so incredibly embarrassed on his behalf. Also: the thing about Bob and Ralph Leighton reminds me of when F1 driver Carlos Sainz Jr. was asked who his idol was, he answered Fernano Alonzo and not, you know, legendary racecar driver Carlos Sainz Sr.

[@EmaAlvarado_iku]

Main issue is that, given the current landscape of media comprehension, a bunch of feyman bros would watch it and end up feeling that the movie is about how awesome feyman was and how awesome they are by extension, no matter how hard you try to make it clear that they are being criticized in text. it's fucked

[@feynmanschwingere_mc2270]

@@EmaAlvarado_iku We are totally screwed. See: election We live in a post-truth world unfortunately. Sad times. Sad, sad, times.

[@MrAcuriteOf1337]

I've heard that, regarding John Bardeen - *double* Physics Nobel Laureate - his neighbors didn't even know that he was a Nobel Laureate. They just thought that he was a really good grillmaster whenever he invited them over.

[@BrightBlueJim]

His boss, William Shockley, also named on the first Nobel, turned out to be a eugenicist and racist. No idea how good a backyard cook he was.

[@starry_lis]

Now, that's the Master we could all learn from

[@Kebabrulle4869]

That's a worthy legacy to strive towards!

[@L1ama]

@@BrightBlueJim If you're going to mention Shockley and how much of an asshole he was, you should also mention that Bardeen left Bell labs pretty shortly after the invention of the transistor largely because he came to hate Shockley.

[@BrightBlueJim]

I really didn't remember that much of the story.

[@danhass6194]

I have been fortunate enough to be in "rooms" that contain a **lot** of smart people. Not once have I heard the actual smartest person in the room assert that he/she is the smartest person in the room. They haven't needed to because it was obvious to the other smart people. If you feel like you need to assert "I am the smartest person in the room", you are **doing it wrong**.

[@GSBarlev]

The smartest person in a room is generally not the person who speaks first, it's the one who doesn't speak until asked their opinion.

[@jaybleu6169]

If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

[@markevans8206]

Yeah. The smartest people I know, know they are smart. They don’t need to “prove” it to anyone. They are also some of the kindest people. Clearly my sample set is too small to mean anything, but it makes me go - hmmmmm.

[@pedrob3953]

You gotta let other people say: "he/she's the smartest person in the room".

[@petrfedor1851]

To paraphrase famous silly hat collector: "Anyone who has to say I'm the smartest person in a room Is no true smartest person in a room"

[@sirspate]

The world needs a Feynman movie that hangs a lantern on the fact that he was an unreliable narrator.