Active crossover! Sublime Acoustics unit walk-through request

[@Nihil1st1347]

Great content. Thanks a lot! I was looking for stuff exactly like this. And though I hit the bell notification, up til now I didn't know you made a video about this issue.

[@realworldaudio]

Sadly even the notification bell does not show every new video.. : ( I'm glad you found this one ;

[@garyconway439]

I am going with the balanced connectors, even for a non-commercial system I am concerned about noise, and as a benefit there is no need to upgrade the RCA connectors.

[@EddyTeetree]

Thanks I’ve been considering active xovers v passive for a while. Big help 👍

[@Nihil1st1347]

Pls can You explain that to me. Is the Signal read out of a record symm. or not. I am very glad about my phono pre amp and it s got symmetrical in and outputs. So I read, its circuitry is.

[@realworldaudio]

Cartridge output can be either symmetrical or asymetrical, depending on how we reference it to ground. By nature, it is not symmetrical, we need intervention/alteration to turn it to symmetrical. It would be symmetrical if the coil was center tapped, but it's easier to find a unicorn than a symmetrical cartridge. (6 wires required for the two channels, not 4.)

[@Nihil1st1347]

As we seriously go into money saving, there are active X overs available starting from 89. But my point is Will an active X over balance all imperfections of the chassis in regard of linearity.

[@realworldaudio]

Not at all. Seemingly it will fix things, especially when approaching from a very poor passive crossover, but (for my hearing at least) I found that active XO keeps the sound too mechanical sounding. Usually it will sound right away real good, but on long term listening it feels to me as if someone is raking my back. Very unpleasant. The "long term" for me is beyond 5 min, but I found that people tire of active XO after a year tops. Different systems, different challenges... in may cases active XO can be a huge step up. But only a stage, and from there the next big step is quality passive.

[@scottxfactoraudio8799]

I own three of these. I purchased them when they first came out. "End of 2017". For the money? Amazing! The next level up gear? That is at about ($6000-$8000+). I know some jaws just dropped. But I am NOT kidding. And those have limited connections and adjustment compared to this. I "HAVE" talked to the company until I was blue in the face about improvements. They did make a few. And they sent me "New" upgraded units to replace the orig. model I had purchased. It does work very well. It is just too "Efficiently" designed. Yeah, it fits in that little case. But it "NEEDS" a larger case. (NO FANS)! Room to breath AND cool! "They can get VERY hot!" (And XLR In/Out, Who the hell uses TRS connectors in Home, High Fidelity audio gear anyway?) "NOBODY"! Well, Except (Xkitz/Sublime)! "Yeah, You will need some custom made cabling, (TRS to XLR) in order to use any high end gear, and get the most out of it"! Like I said, "I was BLUE in the face"! AND a separately cased, isolated - "power supply" -Option! And also a few interior "(Audio), Part quality issues" and other details fixed to elevate these to the "Top Tier" of crossovers. Because even as it is? It's pretty damned good! But the addition of maybe ($115) in parts and another hour of labor tops? You would have heard of these in 2017! And they would now have a BIG new building... But again, it is not hard at all to see it's weak points! And mistakes made...that could be corrected at any time...

[@realworldaudio]

Wow, thank you for the detailed report! 👍

[@scottxfactoraudio8799]

After retiring, I figured I'd just take it easy. So I developed a "home" speaker system, that while "ORIGINALLY", it was just meant as a system for my own use. My project seemed to take on a life of it's own as people noticed me building these (4) very large pieces. Which had profiles, pieces and a multitude of parts that puzzled "almost" all who had began watching/following the build. "I had been researching, learning and also inventing many of the methods, pieces and also devices that I planned to use while I was still plotting-out this eventual build. This went on for over (30) years"! Once I was nearing my projects completion, my plans to design/build a "passive crossover network" changed. This happened once I realized that the technologies had finally matured. As computing power exponentially increased. The "noise floor" dropped past the hearing threshold of most. The average systems "very high resolution" now so easily possible, along with very high quality (4th order, Linquitz-Riley crossover points) finally available are just a "few" key points that fueled my decision to change to digital in this realm. Finding the "Sublime Audio" crossover sounded too good to be true at first. And in a few ways it was. But they did slowly make "some" of the needed improvements. And the X-532 did work well for me right out of the box. ONE NOTE; The fact that it uses custom freq. "Chips" instead of an analog, radial-adjusted-pot system, "As in the case in some (Krell) units. OR, using an added "digital type, with a parametric, incrementally-stepped-switching, "like many used in the "Pro-devices", - such as the "DBX x-overs", and many others always utilize. Why? Because BOTH of those, even as diametrically opposed as they are, "in method, hardware, circuit-archetecture and wiring topologies" - and more! And still, both also have heavy drawbacks in many ways, as to their methods of addressing any change in the frequency wanted. And all of that, in a nutshell. IS BAD, noisy, and fast-degradable even over short time periods. Of course, this is NOT just my opinion. My testing. Which is always exhaustive. And at all times in-house testing is completed with up-to-date, and clearly marked & initialled stickers. This, showing them to be current, factory-inspected, tested, calibrated and then tested again! Equipment. Which backed up what I could hear. The "Krell" x-overs had some very good points though! And a very high build quality with full-width, "rack" mountable enclosures used in both pieces. "As the power-supply, with it's large "Toroidal Transformer" and thus large and also weighty footprint, was all alone. "As it should be"! AND, it was separated and isolated, vibration damped. With still enough room for efficiently routed and separated power, ground and control wiring.

[@Nihil1st1347]

Due to my experience I believe, that an active crossover will contribute to a system way more than a refined power station. At least from the latter I know, it unfortunately does not improove my system according to the price. But big thanks, a hughe shout out to the company who lent their unit to me! Though, as you are so deep into tubes, how you think about active tube crossovers? I read, they were the key to hi fi heaven. What do you think about them?

[@realworldaudio]

That's amazing, they are such nice folks! I think the usefulness of the tube crossovers is very much dependant on how well they are implemented, so can be either a success or a let-down.

[@giorgiovaloti4129]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the whole active vs passive topic. I think I understand it at a high level, what is unclear to me at the moment is the behavior of _passive_ speakers with a double set set of binding posts. It looks like you can bi-amp them and, in doing so, you “disable” the internal cross over? Which doesn’t make sense to me, because I don’t think this is what happens when you simply bi-wire them. Or do you have to remove the internal cross over altogether? Confused. PS I have other questions about the amp choice with an active crossover, but maybe you talk about it in the other episodes.

[@realworldaudio]

When bi-amping with passive x-over, there are 2 choices: 1. leaving the crossover elements in the speaker, and driving the high pass for the tweeter with one amp, and low pass for woofer with another. Or, removing the crossover elements from the speaker, and moving them between the amp and the preamp (of course, with very different values). This has been done long time ago at the professional level, so I suspected that it could be a better choice than leaving the crossover elements at the speaker. But Lou has reported that moving the crossover element to in front of the amp makes a worse sound than leaving it at the speakers - that is because when we touch the signal at a lower level, we do harm to it. Apparently that harm is greater at low signal level than the harm the crossover does between amplifier and loudspeaker. I hope that makes it clearer. ;

[@giorgiovaloti4129]

@@realworldaudio If you go with option 1 you would then have two crossovers? The original, passive one(s) inside the speakers and the active one between the pre and the amps?

[@realworldaudio]

@@giorgiovaloti4129 You need only one, between the pre and the amp. In that case you are connecting the speaker driver directly to the amp, no crossover elements there.

[@IDontExist14]

I've been studing different kinds of orders of crossover, I liked 4th order but hv not used any high quality parts, looking at audio note crossover I was intersted in making a simple crossover, can u do a video on how to calculate a simple 1st over order and what brand to buy capacitors, resisters etc , thanks a lot, I know I comment a lot but it's just my passion, thanks 🙏🌹 I hope one day may we get the chance to open a ultra high end company

[@realworldaudio]

We will get into that! No worries, it is very good that you ask so many questions. I am going to answer them all, but be prepared that it will take time ; ). Actually, many years to cover most of it. Just a reminder: it took me about 10,000 hours to learn what I know, there's no way to condense it down without leaving out essentials left and right.

[@IDontExist14]

@@realworldaudio bro u very knowledgeable, we all think it's not possible for us to compete with big companies and they have super smart people doing some next level science like we are brain washed into thinking, they are just like us, and many of them consider it a job, and it takes an artist to make a very good speaker and that's what most engineers are lacking in

[@realworldaudio]

@@IDontExist14 Thank you ; Excellent observations! Indeed, it takes both skills and inspiration to create.

[@craigcharlestone]

Prefect summary.

[@Thiago_S..]

Hi RWA, I love how all your videos have loads of tips! So one should watch them all, even if the main video topic is maybe not something you are directly interested in ;) Does your remarks about how noisy Nichicon are apply to all their series/models or just the basic one? I have seen many people treat their KG/ gold Tune as "premium", so this made me very curious. Thank you

[@realworldaudio]

Hi Thiago, my videos all have tons of tips. The topic, and an occasional product is just a focus, but the advice almost always applies to a broad spectrum of applications. Unfortunately Nichicon premium series while better, but are still below the standard series of Panasonic and other companies. Even their Muse and Muse bipolar series are well below the Elnas.

[@Thiago_S..]

@@realworldaudio yes I really like that actually and am learning a lot. Thank you! And also thanks for sharing your honest opinion as you always do, these tips are priceless :-)

[@realworldaudio]

@@Thiago_S.. You are welcome Thiago! Thank you for joining the channel at the start and I'm glad I can contribute.

[@veintiunico5326]

is it good or not??

[@realworldaudio]

Depending on your system it can be an upgrade. There's no generic formula....

[@michaelwright1602]

veiled and muddy

[@johnsweda2999]

I don't think that's going to be as good as the linkwitz active crossover, what you can get from Nelson pass for about $130 Probably the ultimate crossover is by BSS supported by JBL Panasonic FM capacitors would fit in there the audible grade Clarityaudio make a excellent electrolytic replacement capacitors that is a polymer film capacitor

[@realworldaudio]

Thank you John for the parts recommendations! Indeed, Nelson Pass gets a thumbs up ; ) Pana FM and Clarity caps are very good choices.

[@MrBolopanos]

Capacitor crapology again....