I Asked Massad Ayoob About Modified Triggers

[@eravelo]

Been reading Massad's articles for forty years. He is the standard.

[@davidschaadt5929]

Yes I remember reading his articles from back in the early eighties.he gives excellent real world, practical advice.

[@oldcop18]

Agree. I met him in the Fall of 2016 when he interviewed me for an article he was writing for American Handgunner.

[@J_Braz_]

He really is. He's the guy Hickok45 listens to when he wants to learn something.

[@gmcjetpilot]

He is pretty consistent...

[@alphaomega5721]

Agreed.

[@possiblepilotdeviation5791]

Massad's voice sounds like he should be singing for the Oak Ridge Boys.

[@CIRCLEDARK]

He probably smells like an ashtray.

[@fasnuf]

NASCAR

[@travistucker7317]

Daddy sang bass...

[@brandonmccormick1571]

🤣

[@patrichardmvp]

Years of chain-smoking will do that to you.

[@mcmiller233]

Even Chuck Norris recommends listening to Mas.

[@SullyCortez]

Dude.... best.... video.... YET! No John I’m being serious, this video just changed my ENTIRE outlook on triggers. I’m making sure all my triggers break at 4lbs AT LEAST from now on. Never once has it been how “smooth” the trigger was... it’s always been how “light” the trigger was.... words of wisdom. PLEASE John, more videos like this with legal experts! Keep killin’ it!! Mas is amazing!

[@knndyskful]

This is the first time I’ve heard Mr Ayoob raise his voice

[@AusyG]

I feel like if he were to raise his voice in anger I'd feel very scared

[@sb859]

Thank you John for this great data and knowledge. His actual court room experience is good as gold.

[@BoHumphries]

"Most of you listening to this [have probably been lulled into a deep sleep]" joking aside, a lot of good info. Massad is a real deal OG.

[@ASPextra]

His voice is so deep!

[@BuddhaKat1]

Good info John, thank you both for the interview.

[@johncollins5021]

One of your best one yet.

[@tedgoebel5907]

I know every time I see/hear Massad, I will learn something important about firearms. Thanks for the class time John!

[@82lowe36id]

Love hearing from Massad. Thank you for making this video.

[@thomaswhite2802]

This is incredibly helpful, Masaad obviously studied laws and it’s incredibly helpful to know. Well done

[@tv92taylor]

Honestly, the idea that a prosecution is going to argue a shooting was accidental/negligent while the defendant argues the shooting was intentional, but justified, is a bit ridiculous. If you intended to pull the trigger, it doesn’t matter how light it is, and it doesn’t matter who modified it. Cosmetic modifications can be a different story.

[@user-pv9pv4xf9c]

Yeah my buddies and I have had long conversations about this back and forth. I was originally the "never modify the trigger!" kinda guy, until I realized just how much more accurate I can be by changing just one or two things on my Glock. It really does seem like you'd basically be hitting the unlucky powerball lottery to actually have a case where you lose because you modified a trigger a little bit. One of my main concerns when conceal carrying is mass shooter defense. That's why I always carry at my church, and I'm being trained by the head of security there. One could argue that you'd never need to make a 40-50 yard shot, until someone with an AR takes a shot at you or someone else down a long hallway or out in a parking lot at that distance.

[@rosebarnes9625]

tv92taylor. I'm thinking the same thing.... If I felt my life was in danger and I shot the perp, how can someone else possibly say I'm guilty for a negligent discharge? But then again, pretty much everything else in the world is completely insane right now, so kinda fits in...

[@BooyaCS]

I think he meant that the prosecution would argue you don't know where or what you are going to hit. If your trigger is so light you may have got away with hitting the intended target but what about an errand shot? What do i mean? If you are in a defensive shooting and the person you shot had 3 bullet wounds but you only have 6 rounds left in your magazine. Where did the rest go? They could argue negligence that you put others in danger because of the modification to the gun (not that you were a bad shot and missed).

[@mahituna1]

It will come up big in the civil lawsuit, as he explained the lawyers will paint you as negligent since it's a wrongful death lawsuit

[@user-pv9pv4xf9c]

@@mahituna1 I guess the bottom line is we're really at a point with our criminal and civil justice system that we can't really defend ourselves. You can furlough the actually physical assault to your body, but then basically the state will just steal everything from you afterwards from a financial sense, all because you had the audacity to not be a helpless lamb that is completely and utterly dependent upon the strong arm of the government.

[@Beltfed45]

I have always respected Mas.

[@emptech]

Through many years of going through firearms training, I've heard the same thing that Massad has said. The opposing side is going to say that you intentionally had that firearm modified to make it easier to kill someone. I am proud to say that have also been one of Massad's students, an experience I will never forget. Some say his techniques are "old school," he doesn't follow modern techniques. If you have ever seen the gentleman shoot, there is nothing wrong with what one would call "old school." Jim

[@bobjoned3398]

Never cock a double action revolver Shows intent to shoot.

[@jnick1909]

Attorneys will say anything to make you look bad and bolster their case against. Don't worry about what they might say. Worry about why you did what you did and be able to explain it. They tell you you modified the trigger to kill easier, you say I modified it to shoot more accurately.

[@dennislum4460]

Show us where that's ever been successfully used to get someone convicted.

[@JoRocket77]

Loved this. Very useful information.

[@KenpoBill]

Great information.

[@possumpopper89]

I have 2 hi power pistols and both had the magazine disconnects removed when I got them. I don’t carry them but Intake them to the range a few times per year. They have 4.5-5 pound triggers.

[@hackptui]

I guess this means carrying a Polymer80 "ghost gun" is out of the question...

[@doddgarger6806]

Nah just use a standard trigger parts kit in it

[@Aspen910]

Dodd Garger I disagree with you. As a gun grabber it’s easy to accuse you of having made a homemade gun so that you could kill my client and attempt to never be caught for doing so. A P80 should just be a range gun.

[@newerest1]

@@Aspen910 that should be easily debunked in court when your attorney points out that you called the police to report the shooting and waited for the police to arrive

[@brandonschwertley2723]

Yea, pretty much. If a zealous prosecuting attorney can jab at a lightened trigger, you bet they will jab at a home made firearm. if it is not serialized yet, even more fuel for that fire. That makes you look like a criminal, you didn't want the gun to be traced to you. Besides from a reliability standpoint, do you really trust your workmanship more than a gun made at a factory? With skilled laborers, maintained tooling, quality assurance personnel, and a proven track record. Plus you can practice with these guns for thousands and thousands of rounds, to ensure they are indeed reliable with your carry ammunition. I have personally seen a P80 lower where the rear and front rails for the slide were not level with each other. It actually worked with a glock factory slide, but not the aftermarket slide the owner was trying to install. IMO, a P80 is a range toy or a science project, never something to be seriously carried or used.

[@sfertonoc]

P80 really is for shtf, not something I would go public with.

[@JugglesGrenades]

The trigger pull on my 1911 has been modified. It is one pound HEAVIER than stock. It has 1/32 inch "slack" or take up, then breaks crisply at 5 pounds.

[@ytbenavraham9553]

I had this same discussion with another operator last week. Glad to see the master speak on this subject.

[@adamwaffledivision3282]

@gothael1 vey!

[@jonmeray713]

You operate a microwave

[@eugeneharrelson3933]

Great info and discussion. Thank you

[@WestCoastChicano]

It's common sense. Even Jerry Miculek doesn't carry a 2 pound trigger for self defense. There are no absolutes but carrying a trigger made for speed shooting I'd say there's a high probability that you'll shoot an unintended target in a high stress situation. Gr8 vid. 🔫

[@urbantreesteve2805]

Great video...Slow is smooth and smooth is fast

[@2nd_a_dad4791]

This might be the most relevant video your subscribers ever watch. Thank you, and thank Massad Ayoob.

[@Painterrap]

Yeah, this is good advice, and it may not be the way it should be but it's the reality of the criminal justice system in America. I actually had a buddy who was carrying a Glock 43 for his everyday carry and he did some upgrading to the pistol which included some TFX sights, stainless steel guide rod, grip enhancement by way of stippling, improved slide cuts by way of custom milling, and he added one of those little streamlight laser/light combos that actually attaches around the trigger guard cause you know there's no rail space on the 43. With all that said he didn't do anything to the internals, no upgraded trigger shoe or trigger bar, nothing. Well I was totally fine with the pistol and thought it was very nice, that was until I saw the one upgrade I just missed until I actually looked it over in person. He had replaced the factory rear slide plate, you know the one you have to remove to take the striker out and such, with a aftermarket aluminum plate that said "Infidel". I gave him a circumstance in which that could be seen or interpreted by a court of law as a very negative or even potentially radical word to have on a firearm, and while the odds are very low as a standard civilian, in terms of you actually ending up in an encounter that results in the discharge of your personal protection weapon, their high enough that millions of people including myself carry on a regular basis. I didn't even get into the what if scenario where the person or persons you end up in a deadly force encounter with would happen to be of a particular religion or decent.

[@jeffainsworth362]

Great information, excellent video!

[@jamesquinn5281]

I've had a Zev Tech in my G19 for about 10 years. Carry it every day, have put about 10k rounds through the gun with no problems (maybe 20 malfunctions). The improvement in my shooting is worth any very low (less than .2% of chance) chance of malfunction.

[@magus1017]

John is like a boy in a candy shop talkin to Ayoob lol

[@w4ame]

Thank you Mas and John.

[@ASPextra]

Our pleasure!

[@garybauer124]

I guess the same could be said about an other accessories for a firearms since they were not original manufactured with them.

[@jackomalley3687]

My X5 legion has the grey guns comp trigger but only using it for range toy.

[@kayakdog121]

Massads's voice makes my dishes rattle in the kitchen.

[@TheWaterman1000]

Here's what I recommend when I taught. Hold at 45% ready if the situation needs that you need to hold someone. Finger out of the trigger area. Hold off the person. Dose not take much time to move on target. Helps to keep home owner discharging when not ready. My two cents.

[@RealHankShill]

In the holster or on target. If you do not have justification to use your gun, it should not be out of the holster. If you have justification to use your gun, there is no reason to present the firearm and handicap yourself against being able to use it

[@nelsondimas8157]

Tons of wisdom here

[@lawman5511]

After carrying SW revolvers on duty for the first twenty years of my career, and then unmodified Glocks, Mas is 100 percent correct about the smoothness of the trigger. I can still shoot a Smith more accurately than the Glock. DA and the pull is 13-15 pounds.

[@jaredfisher5047]

What about changing the trigger to take out travel? I changed out the trigger sa/da striker fired (had restrike capability) to a trigger making it SA and taking out 30% of the pull. The safety blade on the firearm would also get stuck someone's during holster draw drills and I would pull the shot or even during dry fire drills. The trigger took out the safety blade but it still has the manual safety. I did this because the pull was so far when the break happened it was basically touching the frame and even after at least 300-400 rounds I can get decent groups but that's only with focusing on trigger pull, not under a draw from holster. No other issues with other firearms. This did not change trigger pull weight and increased my accuracy.

[@ASPextra]

As long as it's not below "duty" weight you should be fine. I would have a gunsmith sign off on it, though.

[@jaredfisher5047]

@@ASPextra I'll have to see if my local shop has one in house. This was literally just the trigger ($35), it was not a trigger assembly if that makes a difference. I rather be safer than sorry, I don't ever want to have to draw or be in that situation let alone do the right thing protecting my family and have someone tell me that yes your modification made you a better shot but.......... We're using this against you.

[@bradkeeney5236]

Thanks!

[@doddgarger6806]

My 3.5lb Glock 17 drop in makes me more accurate and less likely to miss, I'd rather be alive and sued since I don't have squat besides a bunch of guns anyway

[@Snubrevolver]

3.5 pounds is highly unnecessary. Don't underestimate the justice system. It could destroy your entire life and render you penniless.

[@gvi341984]

You will not be sued only -prison time -possible death penalty depending on date -media attention -prison rape

[@doddgarger6806]

@@Snubrevolver the single action trigger on my g2c is about 3.5 from the factory... So is the g3...

[@davidklingston5633]

If your life is being threatened and you admit that you deliberately fired to stop the attack, what difference does it make if the trigger pull is lighter than production?

[@ASPextra]

It usually only comes up in cases of negligence.

[@mxcollin95]

This is the first I’ve heard this info. Great info! 👍

[@scottfulps2065]

Excellent video, John!

[@ASPextra]

Glad you think so!

[@dookfields2362]

Damn even John was silent and absorbing Massad the GOAT

[@katweirdman9817]

Can we have a link to the Arizona case in reference? Or atleast a written title i couldnt quite catch the defendants name

[@Timboykee]

google: arizona vs officer brailsford

[@valravn126]

@@Timboykee Only thing I can find is a officer who shot and killed a drunk man, has nothing to due with his points of not using stupid ammo/guns/decals.

[@scottrhodig2244]

@@valravn126 Brailsford had "F you" inscribed on the dust cover of his AR

[@truecrimson1]

​@@valravn126 "An internal investigation report revealed that Brailsford had violated department weapon policy by engraving his patrol rifle with the phrases "You're fucked" and "Molon labe" (a Greek expression meaning "come and take them").[28]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

[@jayzenitram9621]

Well, using that case as a reference actually contradicts the point of this video since the cop that murdered Daniel Shaver got off.

[@KMondy]

That is a pot of GOLD for information! Thank you!

[@anthonyblood2439]

What about modifying the length of the trigger pull?

[@Aonghuis]

Heck Mas could host Coast to Coast, even Art Bell would listen from beyond the grave. Talk about a voice made for radio.

[@MobiusUSAH]

Yesterday, I saw this and thought, those are some good points. Then I read the news that Officer Toni McBride is being sued by the family of the man she shot because she trained for competition shooting and that means she has "reckless, violent and homicidal propensities". I supposed you can do everything to make these people happy and it won't matter. Unless you choose to let the violent criminal kill you, they will believe you're the problem.

[@melvinhowell5469]

Way to go, John...get the straight truth from the best...

[@andyp30]

How does making it harder to hit your target improve safety?

[@peterresetz1960]

The one subject not brought up was if all one has is a target pistol used in a home invasion defense by the home owner. Is that home owner becomes vilified because that is the only gun they owned ?

[@ASPextra]

I don't see how that would vilify them.

[@davidapoland]

"If my client shot the attacker by accident, how do you explain two shots next to each other in the A box?"

[@shaneobrien5454]

I live in mass and carry a mossberg mc1 but the mass trigger while smooth is way too heavy for a sub compact so i left the stock trigger but put a mcarbo spring kit and dropped the pull weight to about 5.5 lbs wich is close to non compliant models

[@ronaround2897]

Beautiful worship center!!!!!!

[@adamnichols476]

If there is any man on earth I would trust 100% for his gun and legal expertise, its this man. Hes been in more trials than I have been in clothing lol.

[@paulboegel8009]

And with that said, don't play with your self defense gun trigger.

[@GreggRoberts]

Bruce Gray make good trigger kits.

[@ASPextra]

Excellent!

[@RandomSpaceMonkeys]

Knowledge.

[@matthewspry4217]

Only in America can you have a cup of coffee and a conversation about your favourite trigger pull , god damn 😅

[@LoveLikeaHurricane]

will adding a red dot be a case against shooter then?

[@ASPextra]

No

Does this mean that I should forget about that Apex trigger I wanted?

[@robertkwiatkoski1292]

sir. on your carry, is it da/sa with a decocker or is it something else. thank you very much. As a neophyte i think i would be more comfortable with the longer( intentional) heavier 1st tigger pull. I understand the arguement that it's not the same as subsequent shots. My reasoning is revolvers are recomended to have a dbl sction for self defence. That is not frowned upon? I see the problem as more in the need for traing to lower the hammer when holstering. thank you sir.

[@ASPextra]

I carry a P30 LEM. The primary need is for safe firearms handling and not pointing a gun at yourself.

[@gregpruitt1647]

Arizona v Railsberg? Brailsburg? Does anyone know the correct spelling of the name in the Arizona v case mentioned here?

[@ASPextra]

Brailsford.

[@michaeldanielsonbass8905]

Did you record this at your church?

[@ASPextra]

At a friends' church where we hosted MAG DFI

[@andybunn6096]

I can find the case cited, I heard Arizona v Ralesburg? Or Salzburg maybe? But no year or citation? Could you put the case link in the show notes. Very interesting talk. Of course, on balance the civil liabilities and criminal liabilities are weighed but us against loss of life, harms, insurance costs and assets. It's unfortunate the State has interests and politics of burdening individuals and usually the least criminal people via self defense unfriendliness.

[@moustachio334]

Every Glock buyer needs to see this video following their purchase. Let Glock fix their triggers.

[@wastelandwanderer7685]

Massad Ayoob, inventer of gangsta grip...

[@adviceman5211]

Great video, John !!! Could I replace the trigger on my S&W SD9VE (min. spec. factory 7 lbs.) with an Apex trigger WITH THE SAME 7 LB. (OR HEAVIER) SPEC. ?

[@RAZ0RGAM1NG]

I like how just because "thats the way its always been for 1911s, etc..." is the reasoning for this whole trigger thing, lmfao, ya we also used to not have hollowpoints either for a while so should we not use those either? Obviously a 2.5 trigger pull is way too light but i dont see any issue with having 3.5-4 pound trigger pull, which is what ive come to find is the most common trigger pull weight for custom triggers. Also with the rittenhouse case, theyve prooven that theyll go after you for anything, he used fmj bullets which they considered to be "military rounds" and then in other cases they say hollowpoints are evil because theyre intended to expand and do more damage. I just say that dont have any "youre going to hell" type engravings or decals on your pistol and ur good haha

[@rsilvers129]

When you mentioned that the NY trigger was bad, Mas didn't reply, but he thinks the NY trigger is just fine, and he is probably correct.

[@ASPextra]

Legally it's fine. From a shooting perspective it's terrible. Why do you think he carries a LTT Elite Beretta 92?

[@rsilvers129]

Active Self Protection He would have no trouble scoring 100% on any police qual with it. I would also say that there are some advantages to having a more positive reset. Not that a stock Glock trigger doesn’t have a fantastic reset, but a friend just put an aftermarket match trigger upgrade in his VP9SKs and basically ruined the reset. So by going lighter on the trigger, he made it shoot worse, not better. As for Beretta - probably a combination of large hands and being into guns at a time when the 92 was king. I really wanted one when I was an early teenager, and now I have a few M9s, but never took them out of the box. Huge guns.

[@ironhorce]

Arizona vs. Brailiesburg... I can't find the case, can anyone help?

[@ASPextra]

Brailsford. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

[@natestain7103]

Basically if you defend yourself with a Gucci Glock prepare to pay up for an attorney

[@KCnoSurrender]

Ordered LTT Elite for concealed carry and I was delighted to here that Ernest Langdon’s trigger is still within spec. However, Massad mentioned to never remove the safety from a carry pistol (paraphrasing). The LTT Elite is a 92G that features the decocker only and no safety. Is this considered safety removed or an “acceptable factory model?”

[@KCnoSurrender]

Also, very informative...subbed.

[@jameschanin876]

i have a 45 ACP spring in my Beretta 92 FS 9mm,

[@customhaines2510]

At 14:30 It sounds like Mr. Ayoob is saying Arizona vs Brailsburg, but when I search the only result I get is Az. vs Brailsford. As far as I have yet read, there is nothing in that case regarding stickers or emblems on the firearm. Anyone know what I'm missing?

[@ASPextra]

Brailsford. There was a TON on the AR dust cover he had, but it didn't make it into evidence.

[@mhlittleton6493]

Mas is the man!

[@garykirkham]

At 14:30, Arizona versus who? I couldn't make it out.

[@ASPextra]

Brailsford.

[@garykirkham]

@@ASPextra Thanks. I had forgotten about that one. Makes me mad every time I read about it.

[@LeroyJenkins13]

Next time make this video 12 hours long. I could listen to him for days.....

[@Braindoner101]

I believe Sean Havoc carries a P7.

[@howardharaway2259]

He needs to be President of the United States 🇺🇸 This man is the REAL DEAL !

[@tonyb3848]

Smooth > Light

[@alphaomega5721]

For the same reasons never carry reloads for SD purposes. Factory ammo only. You don't want some jumped up defense attorney implying that you specifically reload to kill....

[@mpac418]

Yeah but I don't know any after market trigger let's say for a Glock or M&P that would be consider a hair trigger.

[@ASPextra]

I have seen a few. Mainly those are for competition and are marketed as such.

[@mpac418]

@@ASPextra yeah your right. I was thinking like Apex tactical, Agency arms, when I made that comment. lol

[@frederickwise5238]

I have trouble with the 25lb pull on a P64, no way my wife can make it. But now Im uncertain if I should have the Wolff 18lb spring installed??????

[@johnc5874]

If i can push or pull off target with a stiff trigger during a relaxing day at the range...i definately don't want to be doing that if some sob is shooting at me. Have no need for a trigger over 3lbs.

[@lm1174]

You need to learn to shoot (trained) if you need that light of a pull.

[@meiam1130]

I would like to hear Mas’ opinion on changing just the trigger shoe while leaving all the internal parts factory stock ? ..........JMHO

[@scottlamp3097]

Can you have Massad Ayoob back on every week?

[@fproszek]

Insurance dont cover it ? Then why do they cover dui accidents ?

[@Emiajtruk]

What was the AZ case Moss was talking about?

[@shaolyntheabolutenoob]

What about changing a trigger because of a reliability issue..

[@ASPextra]

Well, fix the reliability issue of course.

[@shaolyntheabolutenoob]

@@ASPextra but can that be used against me? Or is it just doing something improper to the trigger for the sake of some perceived improvement??

[@ASPextra]

I think it'll only be a problem in the case of a negligent shooting. If you meant to shoot the guy, then it's likely not to be a huge issue.

[@kkpatino]

I’m going to need to read some of these guys articles because I can’t understand a word hes saying

[@garymccausland1272]

So I'm hoping my M&P compact with a Apex trigger set at 6 pounds should be ok. Factory trigger weight was 6 pounds

[@ASPextra]

Should be fine.

[@SteveHartmanVideos]

what about an extended mag releases for smaller hands?

[@ASPextra]

No worries.

[@Forgotten_Boy]

Thank God I live in Georgia.

[@danielhenry2711]

Why does that matter in regards to trigger pull?

[@almosthuman4457]

Got that mile long, double action pull.

[@ASPextra]

Start pulling the trigger on Tuesday morning, gun goes off about Friday afternoon! ;)

[@almosthuman4457]

And it never goes off without full commitment.

[@FrankPSF]

As far as Arizona versus Brailsford is concerned, the modification of the AR was not an issue as the judge excluded that evidence. But is it really responsible and professional for an Officer of the "Peace" to have his carbine emblazoned with the words "YOUR FUCKED?" I'm certain that if that information had been presented to the jury, that the outcome of the trial would have been different.

[@ASPextra]

So, there's a reason it wasn't. It wasn't an arbitrary ruling by the judge, but according to the established Rules of Evidence. Was it smart? No. It also cost him bunches of money to keep out of court!

[@HighSpeedNoDrag]

Never alter the Geometry of Any weapon unless you have no choice. Was told that long ago by the Unit armorer.

[@tinkertime577]

2:00 When Mossad is teaching, please shut up!

[@G5Hohn]

Summary of video: the Sig P250 is the most underrated pistol if all time. Hahaha

[@zachary813]

I read the Arizona case you cited. Doesn't seem to be relevant to this discussion. How about Underwood Extreme Defender rounds? Too freaky?

[@ASPextra]

Not very effective. Brailsford was VERY relevant.

[@zachary813]

@@ASPextra Please tell me how Brailsford is relevant. I saw great reviews of the Underwood Extreme Defender 90 gr.

[@zachary813]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6nbaKyva5x1kNE

[@zachary813]

@@ASPextra I sincerely don't understand the citation to Arizona v. Brailsford. I believe the Brailsford case was the one in which the police officer shot the guy who was crawling on his knees in the hallway with his hands up and reached behind his back. The officer fired, killing him. Nowhere was it mentioned anything about zombie guns or bullets. So what is the connection? Also, I wondered if the Underwood was a zombie bullet. I believe they are used by the FBI.

[@zachary813]

Okay, I see one possible connection. The cop had "You're fucked" written on his rifle, and he was fired for it. But he was acquitted of the charges by the jury.