Grayguns vs. Lazy Wolf: Side-by-Side VP9 Trigger Comparison

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[@paulcallaway71]

One reason of many that I bought my VP9SK is the awesome factory trigger. And as someone who conceal carries this gun and only goes to the range about once a month, the factory trigger is more than adequate for me. Great video fellas.

[@Yuns]

Rick did the work on my USP back when he was at Gray Guns and did outstanding work at smoothing and lightening the trigger and reducing the reset length. It wasn't cheap but worth every penny.

[@reconhippy8352]

Can you us more detail? Thinking about doing the same. Thanks

[@philipbuckler3861]

Have several H&K's--I'm very fond of them, especially the VP9 and the VP9sk. Great shooters, very reliable and easy to shoot. Excellent guns from an excellent company. Nice video guys--we appreciate you..

[@bullseyetactical]

I like that you really picked one!! It was clear you guys preferred the Lazy Wolf one... 😁

[@veryreasonableguy-sk4yg]

Just ordered my first vp9 after shooting a few times as a rental - I really like the feel and accuracy - but I'll admit I wasn't that big a fan of the trigger (I was spoiled by my p10c but the grip on the vp9 is so much more comfortable for me.) Willing to work with it - but I heard about the lazy wolf flat face (which I like) and their reduced reset work I was super intrigued. (Excited enough that I already reached out to set up getting the work done and ordered a trigger from hk parts.) However after some cursory reddit/google searches seems to indicate that some lazy wolf triggers may break after repeated use (or there was a bad batch and they're fixed now?) Anyone know the status of this?

[@brandonfisher4436]

Love my VP9 but I agree on the reset. I have really been thinking about upgrading the trigger with grayguns but I think I might look closely at lazy wolf also since I like flat triggers.

[@ASPextra]

Both so good.

[@brandonfisher4436]

@@ASPextra :-) I have got a grayguns trigger in my P320 and its sweet. So it's a tough decision.

[@TheDuke-n7o]

I have the Lazy Wolf F3 flat trigger and I think it made my trigger action faster and eliminated the trigger pinch I got with the stock trigger. I haven’t tried the Grayguns trigger so I can’t help you there.

[@thesebiscuits1691]

Thanks for doing what you do John!

[@DeuCeNTX]

Have either of you guys tried out David Villalobos at Lobos Industries VP9 trigger? It uses the stock trigger bar so I wouldn't consider it fully "custom" but a very nice trigger in my opinion. It wasn't super difficult to install, but then again it's not something I would tackle without the 2 or 3 great tear down videos I found on the Tube either.

[@Dutchball]

I’ve the Lobos on my VP40 and love it

[@AGC828]

Was curious about the pull wegihtss..

[@stacks4943]

Apologies for asking but what was the name of the company that did the custom grip work..?

[@ASPextra]

Jerkman Customs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKPVc5mqdp2nbsk

[@stacks4943]

@@ASPextra Thank You

[@warrenvchambers]

Would love to hear all the features of the 2 customized vp9s. Waiting to buy the 2020 vp9, putting on Vortex Venom. Want to hear more on the back straps, what suppressor height sights to use. I prefer speedsights but they don't make suppressor heights sights. Thanks for this one John!

[@ASPextra]

I prefer blacked out BUIS on dot guns.

[@Kattbirb]

Is that take-up after it resets or just letting your finger off of it a bit? Question aside, I'm happy to see all these in depth looks into the VP9. I can respect it, even envy it a little, but I just can't like it. Something in the way it looks and that magazine release, it just doesn't float my ducky.

[@ASPextra]

It has a trigger return spring so it pushes out just a bit as it resets.

[@Kattbirb]

@@ASPextra Interesting. Thank you for the response. Maybe I'll look around for a VP9B to test drive some time.

[@shannonbrady2816]

I have a VP9 and box trigger is ok, but I just don't like a lot of travel so just ordered a Lazy Wolf F2.

[@ASPextra]

Lazy Wolf makes incredible improvements to the VP9 trigger, which is saying a lot!

[@tjjanicke8558]

A lazy wolf f2 trigger with a duty/defensive sear spring and a dpm recoil reduction system will change your life. The duty sear spring will bring your trigger pull weight down to about 4.6 lbs

[@331StrokedGT]

One thing I wanted to see in this video was to see how each compares on paper. Maybe a 1" dot or 3-3-3 circle test? Stock VP9 first then the two modified ones. It was a little hard to see the hits on paper but being that close. I would think no matter which trigger you had, the hits would be relatively close based on ones skill set at that distance . We know your opinion on the feel of each of the triggers, but lets see the proof on paper for confirmation.

[@ASPextra]

The trigger doesn't impact the inherent accuracy of the gun.

[@mikegurv1818]

@@ASPextra The accuracy of the gun is in the hands of the shooter. Trigger control is extremely important, as you probably know as well as I do.

[@asdfghjk2933]

I know you touched on it in the video, but as an absolute beginner who purchased a vp9 2 months ago and has yet to actually take it to the range (though I have dry fired thousands of "rounds"), would you recommend that I use the stock vp9 trigger for the foreseeable future and train with it until I'm a proficient shooter, or upgrade to the grayguns/lazy wolf right off the bat? This is probably going to be my only handgun for years and I would love to make it perform as well as possible. I'm just not sure if now is the right time.

[@ASPextra]

Yeah, I would just go with the stock trigger until you're really pretty dang good with the gun. VP9 has a great trigger out of the box.

[@fearnonebutone4977]

Lazy Wolf did my P30 that had the GG flat trigger and it’s sweet. Lazy wolf also did my USP Tactical and my HK45 Compact and both are amazing!

[@ericfrontczak8016]

What did you have done to hk45

[@lrivera18]

I bought the P30L LEM, is it worth it to upgrade the trigger? If so, which one is the best? This is my carry gun.

[@ASPextra]

I think it is. Personally I would send it to Langdon Tactical Technology and have them install a Grayguns short reset system in it. I prefer the extra light spring set, but some folks like the light instead.

[@jesseashmore8426]

The gun shots sounds like the basketball scene in scary movie 2. If only John would break dance.

[@pauljohnson9445]

Great video. When people find out the cost and timeline for getting your gun back, the stock triggers end up looking really good. If you have other things you need to invest your money in, then do them. If money's no issue, then go nuts. Most people might get a reset reduction on their P30, or P2000, or the subcompacts, since that's the only real issue people can have with them, usually. All the rest work fine. Still waiting for Johnny John to experience/review a P7 variant, even though they aren't made anymore.

[@jonathan2282]

Yeah, I was thinking about sending my P30L until I thought about the cost and time. I ended up buying a new VP9 LE for a good price instead.

[@ASPextra]

Dude, a P7 costs like THREE GRAND now. Out of my league!

[@pauljohnson9445]

@@ASPextra Yeah Johnny John, a P7M13 in unfired condition with box and goodies, could be over 3Gs, maybe 4Gs. A P7M8, the single stack version, unfired etc., could be 3Gs now. The euro versions that were LE trade-ins, with the heel mag release, went for $500-$600 around 10 years ago. They're now bringing close to $1500, condition depending. They were black, nickel, and chrome finishes. I knew a guy who had two, a black one and a chrome one. I asked him if he'd ever be willing to sell one...........and he said sure. The hard chrome one sits quietly............waiting for the next call up. It had Trijicon night sights and 2 mags with the box and tools. Sent it to Columbus to be gone over. They checked it all out and changed a bunch of springs then sent it back. The euro heel mag release is unusual for us Americans, but 8+1 should handle most situations. Great to carry, like in a Kramer horsehide OWB, or in some thunderwear, in less permissive environments. It's just draw, present while squeezing, and it's single action low bore axis heaven bruddah. Works when role playing Hans Gruber, or Tommy Lee Jones in Under Siege. I also picked up a light LEM P30 9mm and a Springfield RO 1911 from the same guy. Other than a G19, it's all HK, all the time homie. If I'm ever out in Phoenix again(it's been many, many years), then I'll look you up.

[@vulture8878]

Anyone have a link to this “Jerkman” company? Thanks.

[@ASPextra]

facebook.com/pages/category/Outdoor---Sporting-Goods-Company/Jerkman-Customs-102029291356809/

[@vulture8878]

Active Self Protection Extra Thank you!

[@badassoptic]

If you go even slower, the stock VP9 trigger has two audiable clicks when you reset. Sometimes it false signal the shooter that the gun is ready to fire the next shot.

[@ASPextra]

I would submit that if you are using the audible click to identify if your gun is about to fire, your doing it wrong.

[@geraldochi7945]

Nice video, beautiful guns, honestly the trigger action looks like Walther PPQ triggers out of the box.

[@disco4535]

The PPQ has significantly more travel and breaks much farther back. The reset is similar though

[@asdfghjk2933]

lol not even close. A vp9 with a gg or lazy wolf trigger absolutely blows away a stock PPQ trigger.

[@oscarpuente2029]

They are good shooters both of them. got a vp9 and vp40. they shoot fantastic. also have a styer m9 a1. with a helluva trigger as well.

[@TBG6704]

I have a VP9SK and I keep wondering if I should upgrade the trigger or not. I'm a newer shooter that carries daily.

[@zacharyclifford8339]

I would say that you’d be better off taking a couple training classes first.

[@GAMEKILLR3]

I've been shooting for years and imo you should train with a stock frigger for awhile just for shooting in general but upgrading your trigger is always a good decision. I carry a vp9 with a rmr and trying to decide between the v2 and v3 from lazy wolf.

[@Turambar117]

If you can afford an upgraded trigger and classes without having to put off classes, do both. If not, prioritize training.

[@asdfghjk2933]

@@GAMEKILLR3 Which did you go with? I'm trying to make the same decision, but I'm leaning towards the v2. Looks like it might have a tad less takeup.

[@GAMEKILLR3]

@@asdfghjk2933 I actually decided to stick with the stock trigger and I'm very accurate with it though I did switch to the FN 509C for summer carry and I swapped out the trigger on that.

[@reconhippy8352]

Great vid. Can you do the same one for USP?

[@ASPextra]

I don't own a USP, so that would have to come first. :)

[@CHEECHMUN]

Canik & CZ stock triggers are the best. I just bought the VP9, the trigger needs to be upgraded.

[@thenotoriousvlog5986]

I agree. I shot the CZ P10C and I loved the trigger. I have a 2020 edition optics ready VP9. The trigger could’ve been better. Even the PPQ has an edge over it stock out of the box

[@CHEECHMUN]

@@thenotoriousvlog5986 Yeah I'm disappointed in the VP9 trigger. Do you know of any good reasonably priced triggers for it?

[@thenotoriousvlog5986]

@@CHEECHMUN lazy wolf vp trigger f3, Lobos trigger, MCarbo

[@CHEECHMUN]

@@thenotoriousvlog5986 Appreciated!!!

[@danjarmusik878]

What do you guys think of having a ported barrel?

[@ASPextra]

I think it CAN be a challenge in retention shooting, though it's not evil necessarily.

[@danjarmusik878]

I have a 2020 Vp9 and it came with a ported slide. Do you think it would be beneficial to get one that's not ported as well

[@ASPextra]

Oh you don't mean barrel, you just mean slide? I wouldn't worry about it much. :) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[@danjarmusik878]

Ok. Thanks for writing me back. I was concerned about debris and such getting in there and messing with the guns function. I have lazy wolf trigger on it and l think it runs clean

[@Elvis68spec]

Question, if you love the H&K VP9 so much, why all the work? Why not, just run a stock VP9? Just curious.

[@ASPextra]

Because it makes it more fit to its task.

[@Elvis68spec]

@@ASPextra Ok, interesting.

[@richardfoust2815]

So let me get this straight, you take the best (or tied for the best) out of the box trigger IN EXISTENCE, and then you have two of the best gunsmiths in the United States MAKE THEM BETTER, and somehow they are both great?!? How could that POSSIBLY happen??? 🤣🤣🤣

[@ASPextra]

Lol

[@logicalguy488]

I was thinking of sending mine to Lazy Wolf till I saw the price. You can buy another gun for the cost of the trigger job. WOW

[@ASPextra]

You ain't joking, but holy wow man.

[@ericfrontczak8016]

No you cant

[@TheDuke-n7o]

I have the lazy wolf f3 flat trigger and I love it, especially since I’m not getting the pinching on my finger anymore like i I got with the stock trigger. The flat trigger seems so much faster to me. HK VP9 is in my opinion a great striker fire gun out of the box and the paddle mag release is great. I only did 3 upgrades: red anodized aluminum firing pin sleeve, red anodized rear slide plate, and red anodized Lazy Wolf F3 flat trigger. All upgrades installed by me... the trigger was a 2 person job as I didn’t have a vice. I use the HK P30sk V3 for my EDC and I have no upgraded parts on it... it is perfect the way it is!

[@CH-tg6zq]

Hi John. I'm a doctor. I get it, but only when comparing a Sprague Rappaport stethoscope with a Littmann Cardiology stethoscope. That said, when I am talking (hypothetically) with my attorney after shooting a dirtbag, I do not want to reveal that I have customized my trigger or done anything to my gun beyond what the factory has set for me to defend myself. I take tons of training from special ops folks. For someone like me (who is looking only for self defense), they unanimously say that I should leave my gun untouched. DA's are looking for convictions, and they love pressing charges on those that are "looking for a gunfight." Please educate me if I am wrong.

[@ASPextra]

I have never seen a DA get to make an argument in court or have it stick that a modified gun was salient to the justification for deadly force. Ever. Like ever ever. Even in the Philip Brailsford case his "you're fucked" dustcover was disallowed in court because it was not salient. So do what you want, but unless you negligently shoot someone, or negligently bring the break weight under reasonable specs, and unless your lawyer is too dumb to hire an expert witness that can explain to a jury why a professionally modified trigger is valuable to a defensive shooter to make sure they're as accurate as possible, then I wouldn't worry about that.

[@Turambar117]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4THm51jYtZpfsU Tl;dr don't put stupid stuff on your gun like a Punisher back plate that does nothing to increase your performance. Don't disable the safeties, potentially causing a negligent discharge. Be able to articulate why you decided to modify any part of your firearm and why that gave you a mechanical advantage and how that means there was actually less liability since you improved the performance of your gun and by extension, yourself

[@laurencenarcisi4370]

​@@ASPextra Agreed. But I've only spent 38 years in criminal courtrooms. The SO guys are the best at what they do. They don't do it in a courtroom.

[@Elvis68spec]

Interesting video. I prefer stock H&K Guns or, stock Guns, in general. I'm not a gimmicky, kinda Guy.

[@etherdetroit1977]

I just bought a VP9. I'm in love with it. I love the ergonomics, accuracy, look and trigger. Now you got me wanting to tinker with it. 🤣

[@ASPextra]

Good choice!

[@Quantiples]

I’m sending one to both because I can’t decide.

[@noreastsportsman6499]

When you showed the up close trigger pulls at around 6 minutes in.. it was easy to read your body language that you were surprised by how long the reset was on the Grey guns trigger, so much so that you at one point thought the trigger didn’t reset. But you didn’t call it out. I understand not wanting to hurt Bruce’s feelings especially if the work was done for free, but this wasn’t all that honest of a review due to that brief few seconds and unfortunately that lack of willingness to critique something so visibly obvious took away the credibility of this review. You didn’t have to bash the Grey guns trigger, but you should’ve addressed what you were thinking rather than being polite. Made this feel more like a commercial than a review.

[@timothyyates6130]

I thought by the end of this video both of you would have a woody by the way you all were reacting.

[@ASPextra]

I mean, they’re both pretty cool…

[@bilzill1]

Stay with the stock set up, it's not worth the money trust me been their done that

[@ASPextra]

@Devin Breedlove welp sir, let's see your uncut video on the internet of you shooting. Find any of the drills on the channel and no cuts, no second takes. I would recommend starting with Dot Torture.

[@RobertKinne-lh8wn]

Who discovered fire first. Uuummmm fire good

[@ASPextra]

Fire good!

[@garyandtricia1]

It would be nice if you separated the gear and gun vids from the ASP vids. Enjoy the ASP stuff, the other stuff is meh. Too many others out there who specialize in the stuff.

[@ASPextra]

Did you notice that this is an entirely separate channel?

[@garyandtricia1]

@@ASPextra I did, but you have the great legal discussions on here as well. It's just my opinion, but the legal and incident analysis are on point and worth watching, and as I said the other stuff is dwarfed by the numerous channels that specialize in that stuff.

[@thesebiscuits1691]

Hey im actually first for once

[@bigro4444]

Those ears are annoying me for some reason.

[@ASPextra]

Good. They're an indicator that maybe you need to relax a little. :)

[@faadilcajee3640]

Just buy a CZ P10C & there wouldn't be any need for putting a aftermarket trigger.

[@ASPextra]

The stock VP9 trigger is better than the P10c trigger.

[@faadilcajee3640]

@@ASPextra You're entitled to your opinion, John. Nevertheless, I'm a fan of yours & the work that you do on ASP. Keep it up 👍

[@GAMEKILLR3]

They're both pretty good but HK is the 🐐.

[@cakeeee4]

CZ P10c sucks, VP9 all the way

[@jbstuff]

Armory Craft > both

[@Xemantic]

How's that relevant when they don't make triggers for the VP9?

[@Philly1958]

I wouldn’t have trigger work done to a self defense gun. Stock only

[@ASPextra]

I disagree.

[@62dobie]

Some stock triggers suck. Upgrading a trigger may not be needed, but can help your performance.

[@cirodinardi3154]

There still safe, your not looking at 2lb triggers after the upgrade there still around 4lbs

[@rhodycars6058]

Laughs in Glock

[@ChanceUrtaking]

California bullshit

[@jessegpresley]

When you make these gear-centric videos you perpetuate the idea that little differences in triggers actually matter. This material is beneath you.

[@ASPextra]

When you're good with a handgun, these little differences actually matter.

[@jessegpresley]

@@ASPextra when you're a B class shooter, you're not really that great.

[@Turambar117]

Imagine advocating against mechanical advantage

[@asdfghjk2933]

A lighter trigger with better ergonomics, less overtravel, and a shorter reset, will make pretty much anyone more accurate.

[@mrjon75]

Triggers matter.