Adding an AUTOMATIC Electric Brake to a Treadmill Motor For the Lathe

[@JohnDoe-ls2ww]

This right here is the best upgrade for, any shop machines we use. Well done!!

[@dazecars]

thanks

[@duaneglover9283]

Hi Daze, I see a lot of confusion in the comments, as am I, an overall scematic of all the components in all your videso would help a lot, I hope your not too busy for this. It help us all. Really do apriciate you work on all this. Thanks a lot

[@dazecars]

It is in the works. I have already shot some video for it but need to edit and draw up the schematics. It will be at least a couple weeks before it uploads.

[@duaneglover9283]

Thankyou so much, I'm looking forward

[@dazecars]

@@duaneglover9283 requested video drops tomorrow

[@garsonprice3441]

Thanks for all your help, Daze. I've converted two wood lathes to variable speed with all your knowledge here on KZbin. I'm looking for more free treadmills for other power tools in the shop. Drill press is next, then the band saw. Appreciate all your help. Thanks from New Brunswick, Canada. 👍👍

[@dazecars]

Fantastic, glad I could help!

[@jameshisself9324]

Great video and solution Daze. This looks like it solves all of my concerns to have braking integrated into the operation of the lathe that we discussed last year. Thank you for your great work.

[@dazecars]

No, thank you! It was your information and comments that started me down the path to adding braking.

[@m3chanist]

A diode in series with the braking resistor and connected in reverse bias (backward/opposed to normal current flow) across the DC lines would achieve the same ends with no moving parts. A VISHAY VS-60APU04-N3 is rated to 400V at 60A for instance. You could even just use another bridge rectifier using only the DC connections, cheap. This is simply because when the motor is braking, it is producing current in the opposite direction to when it is running, the back emf is reverse polarity, the positive motor input becomes the negative motor output and likewise for the other pole. So in normal operation no current flows through the brake because the brake diode stops it, but when you cut the power the reverse direction generated power from the motor will flow through the braking diode, and so to the brake resistor that is in series with it. All of this only applies to motors run in one direction only of course.

[@dazecars]

I could be mistaken but I believe that a free spinning motor produces DC current in the same direction, not reversed current. (It would be easy enough to test) When the field in a coil collapses the current goes the opposite direction but a generating motor produces power because of the free spinning shaft and because its going in the same direction it produces power in the same direction. As an example there is a flyback diode on the MC2100, basically wired exactly as you have said without the resistors in series and when the MC2100 is powered off the flyback diode would act as a brake if power was reversed but it does not and the motor slowly spins down, but if you add the relay and resistors it brakes when the MC2100 is powered off.

[@daxgilmore4374]

Very nice.. My Rotary Switch wasn't rated. So used two relays.😉 Good choice on the Blade Connectors. I forgot they existed.. Now I'll be replacing mine with the same.😆 Cheers.

[@dazecars]

My problem has been finding the correct replacement rotery switch. (mine still works but is a little worn out) There is no part number on the one that came in my machine and I am not finding double throw rotary switches. There are lots of single throw switches but not double.

[@TradeWorks_Construction]

LOVE it! Exactly what was called for to incorporate it into the existing tried and true rotary switches found on lathes. From personal experience I know trying to utilize existing elements as much as possible (either for reduced modification effort or expense) can increase the work through difficulty level to the point of abandonment. Even if the solution ends up being elegantly simple … that will only ever be the case after you’ve found it. Everything before hand (the trial and error the time drawing out schematics the effort spent thinking it all through) are rarely given their due recognition when a person didn’t have to experience it themselves. Well done🫡

[@dazecars]

Glad you liked it!! There has definitely been some trail and error on this project. The challenge I am currently having now is finding a replacement rotary switch. The original switch was double throw and that is why I was able to use it as a direction switch and as a kill switch of the relay but all the rotary switches I am finding are single throw. My original switch has a lot of hours on it and the contacts only connect about 99% of the time.

[@BobBlarneystone]

Thanks for the information! >>> Here's a CAUTION for woodturners who install a treadmill motor as I have done

[@dazecars]

thanks for the PSA

[@davidk1501]

Great video, but Where can I find the full schematic for this?

[@dazecars]

here you go, I have a video for that kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2jIlYuspqmAftk

[@andyb7754]

Nicely explained and good information.

[@dazecars]

Glad you liked it

[@SRG216]

Do you get arcing on the relay contacts? If so, I suppose you could add an RC snubber.

[@dazecars]

No I am not seeing any arcing

[@milanp5697]

Great video, too bad I am not electrician. Would it be possible to make on whole unit for me? I am trying to replace my motor on drill press to have the option of forward/ reverse, break and rpm control. Milan

[@dazecars]

I am happy to share the information but I am not interested in putting together units for people.

[@duaneglover9283]

Thanks for this, any chance you could put up a scematic of all the parts in this latest system

[@dazecars]

There is a schmatic at 1:50 What else are you needing?

[@duaneglover9283]

Thanks for your reply, I follow that scematic, I'm trying to tie it to your previous scematics of all the other components of the motor and chokes and switches and so on

[@paulmanhart4481]

That’s what I was thinking. How does this connect with all the other stuff he’s shown? I copied his variable SCR speed controller with the same rotary switch for F/R, but I’m wondering how this new stuff figures in. I need to watch the brake video.

[@duaneglover9283]

Hi Paul, did you figure it out?

[@duaneglover9283]

​@@paulmanhart4481 hi Paul, did you figure it out

[@lukemccormack1880]

Great video, just curious, does your resistor heat up when the motor is in normal use, being that it looks like it's in parallel with the motor in your drawing? Would it be better to run the resistor/breaking circuit through a normally closed contact on the relay to take the resistor out of the circuit when the motor is running?

[@dazecars]

The NC part of the relay is exactly how I have it wired. It is only parallel with the motor when there is no power to the relay. When power is applied to the relay the connection to the resister is broken and the motor connects to the power supply.

[@zacwaltz2854]

Do you have a combined wiring diagram with the SCR, potentiometers, relays and switch? I’m starting to buy all the parts now.

[@dazecars]

Here you go Schematics for Adding an AUTOMATIC Electric Brake to a Treadmill Motor For a Lathe SCR, MC60, MC2100 kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2jIlYuspqmAftk

[@kylereynolds4239]

I was going to ask if there was a way to incorporate a big red emergency stop into all this but you covered it. I'll be adding all this to my little lathe very soon because right now there is ALLOT of inertia still with the big fly wheel trying to turn it off and it scares the shit out of me. I really appreciate all you're doing here so thank you.

[@dazecars]

Glad I could help, make sure you watch all 3 of my videos on the subject, to get all the info needed.

[@timcovey7280]

Any reason not to use a 4 position rotary switch with #1 left #2 brake #3 right. I see no need for a relay. It won't see current spikes anymore than the motor starting or less. A LW26-63Amp should do it.

[@dazecars]

I used the relay because I wanted the brake to trigger if the direction switch was actuated, BUT ALSO if the master power switch was cut or the e-stop switch was hit. Your simplified version only covers 1 out of 3 of those situations and the e-stop you are leaving out is the most important place to have the brake.

[@Richard-gh1gv]

As usual Daze great video and now I will have some thinking to do. I used the original switch to do the polarity reversal on my treadmill motor. The idea is great, just have to decide if the wiring nightmare (for me to keep neat and clean) is worth it. Actually, Well yes, I know it is, lol.

[@dazecars]

Go for it! It will be worth it 😁

[@TylerPayne-n2b]

Can an optically coupled solid state relay be used? I have one left over from an earlier project.

[@dazecars]

Depends on the relay's specs. If it is DPDT, has an AC trigger, AND has high enough amps for the DC side of things (AC amp ratings and DC amp ratings are not directly interchangeable) Than it should work. I would be willing to bet it falls short in several categories unless it was an extremely expensive relay.

[@rayg436]

did I not say in your last video to use a relay ? good setup but could be made much easier.

[@dazecars]

You did but I had already solved the problem. I had this video put together when the previous video dropped. That is why I was able to preview it at the end of the previous video. How would you make the setup easier? Any simpler and it would not automatically function at all functions.

[@nedudki]

Wanted to join the "3 in 1 mill lathe combo machines" on FB, but I cant find it. Do you have a direct link? Thank you!

[@dazecars]

facebook.com/groups/168134035160655

[@aguycalledlucas]

What size resistor were you using on your bench test set up? I couldn’t locate the resistor?

[@dazecars]

Thats because I did not use one for the bench test. 😁😁 I was running it at slow enough speeds that I went with the direct short as it was lower energy discharge. It's also kind of a crapy motor so I don't mind being a little harder on it. I was originally going to run the two 4Ω 1000W resisters I have (video 1) in parallel but after the results (video 2) I will go with 4 or 5 4Ω 100W resistors in parallel. I hope to get to the final install in the next month or so.

[@aguycalledlucas]

@@dazecars ok great I’m happy to see that I’m following your videos closely and that you plan to work on a video with the final configuration. Looking forward to it. Thanks Daze.

[@dazecars]

👍

[@ezramel]

where the large resistor go ?

[@dazecars]

view the entire playlist, one has a schematic

[@eddydogleg]

I'm not buying DazeCars explanation for why the AC / DC de-rating on switches and relay. The higher AC current rating is because at 60Hz voltage goes to zero every 8.33ms stopping arcing. Using rectified AC to simulate DC still means zero volts every 8.33ms. It would be interesting to use an oscilloscope to see what is happening when the relay closes to put the braking resistor across the motor. My guess is you could still use the AC rating because you'd only ever be opening the contacts at zero volts, the motor stopped.

[@dazecars]

I didn't convert from AC to DC. I "de-rated" the DC numbers to DC numbers. I realize it is not as simple as I made it but close enough to be in the ball park. I never claimed to be an electrical engineer, just a guy with enough basic knowledge to get the job done. In this case close enough is good enough because it will not likely be used a max volts. My main concern was to make sure a big enough relay was being used because it could easily be undersized due to the lower DC amp rating of most relays.

[@David-hm9ic]

You don't have to believe him. Just read the ratings on any toggle switch. AC amperage capacity is always higher than DC.

[@eddydogleg]

@@David-hm9ic Rectified AC isn't DC.

[@dazecars]

every DC powered device in your home that plugs into the wall runs on rectified AC so its close enough.

[@zetuskid]

Heavy heavy Daze, but if you say it works then it Will work.

[@dazecars]

not only works, it works well.

[@GoPaintman]

The DC de-rating isn’t exactly correct. When going from 24V to 90V, you’re not stressing the contacts of the relay that much more. You’re more likely to cause them to arc at higher voltages, but that’s not involved any sort of proportional relationship with current.

[@dazecars]

thanks for the info, Im always trying to learn more.

[@paulmanhart4481]

Ok. So this works with the 3PDT rotary switch. But I don’t see your resistors anywhere. Where do they hook in to the wiring diagram? Also, in your other video where you show the resistors, you are using a small toggle switch. So I’m confused as to how this all goes together. I have my on/off ac power. This is connected to the SCR, followed by a toroidal inductor, circuit breaker, bridge rectifier, dc choke and forward/reverse selector switch. Now, to add the brake, I wire in the relay as shown. But where do the resistors go? BTW, if you have break before make on/off buttons, why do you need an emergency stop? You already have an off button for that. P

[@dazecars]

The resistor is labeled on the schematic at 5:20 in the video. The purpose for an emergency stop switch is a quick off that doesn't require any thinking, finding the switch, or flipping it the correct direction. Yes it does the same thing as the master power switch functionally but it is a bigger target to simply hit in an emergency situation.

[@paulmanhart4481]

@@dazecars Yes. I see that. But you are showing the small 3PDT switch, not the forward/reverse switch we are using. I’m confused about how these resistors, and the small toggle switch connect to the variable speed drive in your previous videos. The last thing I have before the motor is the 3PDT rotating selector switch. Where does this new stuff go? See what I mean? It might be obvious to you, but not to me. Thanks DAZE! 😬

[@dazecars]

​@@paulmanhart4481 you are letting the fact that it is a rotary switch compared to a toggle switch confuse you. a 3PDT switch is a 3PDT switch and is hooked up the exact same way regardless of how the switch, switches. Go back to the video I made just for you and you will see I show the toggle in the drawing but the the rotary on the bench. The third pole is on the end of the switch and you will see if you test it with a meter that it is simply on off on and is used to power the relay. The toggle in the first video was just there for the bench test and was replaced by the relay in the automated section.

[@paulmanhart4481]

@@dazecars Um, ok. So, let me rephrase to make sure I understand. The circuit diagram in the video shows a 3PDT rotary switch. This is the one I have. But now I’m using the third pole? With AC? It also shows the relay and resistors, right? If this is correct, then I think I’m good (that’s debatable). But I still need to figure out how to wire the AC in the third pole. Thanks DAZE.

[@paulmanhart4481]

@@dazecars Daze, if resistance in a parallel circuit is the inverse of the sum of the inverse of the ohms ( R = (Sum (1/Ri))^-1 Then if each of the green resistors is 4 Ohms, then I need 4 of them to get 1 Ohm, right? The Watts just add so I have 400 Watts. I would like 1000 Watts at your suggested 1 Ohm. The big expensive one is 1000 Watts, but 4 Ohms.