Adding POE Oil for and R407c Retrofit

[@nocompeterefrigerationserv7501]

Greg- Great video! I have done many retro refrigerant replacements. I use a male to male for the hose to control the oil/contamination. I also use a refrigerant cap for the oil pump and put it in a plastic bag. I hope this helps. Have a great day 🤘🤘

[@the_townleys]

Hey,we had a noisey compressor. Thanks for showing us this. We bought the exact pump and oil ,home depot had brass adapters from 3/8 to 1/4 and granger had the r22 hose .pumped the oil in and Now the unit is much quieter. Thank you for taking the time and sharing this with us Las vegas

[@orlandotech]

To keep the oil from becoming a mess after pumping oil use two of the add-on type ball valve ends for your hose. Keep them both closed after using oil pump. Remove hose from pump only and connect that end to unit liquid line (preferably a hot gas line but residential units don’t have pressure taps on that line normally). Fully open hose valve at suction line and slowly crack open valve on liquid line (never full open!) and let the liquid refrigerant purge out the oil from hose. It will clean it right out in less than a a minute. No danger of system damage IF hose valve at liquid line is only cracked open to create a good enough flow to wash the oil out. The 5 or 6 foot of hose length is enough to not worry about liquid spraying into suction line since it will flash into vapor before it gets back into it. Once done close hose valve on liquid line, then hose valve on suction line. Last step is to open a hose valve to release any pressure, remove hose valves and hang up hose in case any trace oil remains.

[@lopaka79]

Use low loss fittings for your oil hose. You can also use a 1/4" male male adapter to bleed the low loss fittings for priming. Much cleaner than a dripping hose. Thanks for the Video! Edit: Also forgot to mention priming back into the oil container instead of the ground. Many a machine room would be sad with an oily floor

[@b-riair9114]

Double handing the contractor that’s a great path through your heart it only takes once for that to happen to ya

[@Djflatbush]

Ooof I was thinking the same thing haha

[@chrometrey57]

You made my day brother.. really taught me about adding Poe oil… I was scared lol

[@peterd6592]

Is there any risk of compressor damage by pumping oil (fluid) into the suction line?

[@simeonsond4given75]

Exactly my thoughts as well. I would rather add a little squirt at a time while the system is running. Four ounces seem slightly heavy for the compressor to suck since oils are not compressible.

[@jeffk5725]

Informative! Touching that contactor with your bare fingers on an obviously wet day doesn’t set a good example for a lot of the newbies. Use an insulated screwdriver next time if you have the camera rolling.

[@foxfamilyhvac]

I know, it's hard to direct my guys sometimes. Thanks for watching.

[@aquaholicmcgraw7133]

I 2nd that comment.. I work with extrusion chillers, that have 3 phase 480 v coming into the contactor... I teach my guys to never disrespect electricity..

[@heavydiesel]

Something I've found is next time you use the pump it needs a couple of pumps into a waste oil container to clear any oil that's soaked up moisture. Nice job! (apart from the fingers on the contactor, get that guy an insulated screwdriver!!)

[@HVACShopTalk]

heavydiesel I learned that the hard way

[@dudefixesstuff2153]

Great info

[@polishtheturdmickelson5473]

Or a Sharpie marker.

[@throttlebottle5906]

bzzzzttt, it only hurts a little ;)

[@foxfamilyhvac]

I know!

[@anthonygange2550]

So the old oil doesn’t need too be removed before the POE oil is added ?

[@privateaccount4964]

So when you add the poe oil do you just add it even if the old oil is in the compressor? Or do you take out the old oil?

[@markspc1]

norman you ask hard questions and for that you don't get an answer, he-he ! Only time you get a reply is if you say: Greg- Great video and are ready to kiss their asses !

[@privateaccount4964]

markspc1 that was a serious question. I’m gonna pretend you guys are not dismissing a serious question about your business. I thought this was an informative video so I have a legit question about the process

[@hvacrcole]

Honeywell wrote the procedure for adding POE oil to Mineral oil and Alkabenzine oil back about 5 or 6 years ago. I personally been doing it longer and yet to lose a compressor from oil issues. So mixing POE oil with Mineral or Alkabenzine is no big deal. I don't know where that information you can't add POE oil to a system that has Mineral oil or Alkabenzine oil in it is a myth.

[@ivanl8613]

@@markspc1f c k

[@robertStone-hq1by]

Is that BX cable powering the unit not sealtite

[@jimthvac100]

So this pump obviously has a built in check valve. I need to get one.

[@ferminisiordia7444]

Like always, great videos.Just want to clarify, mineral oil was inside already and poe just mixes with it.?I just never done it.Thanks

[@lopaka79]

Still on the fence with these "add a little POE" conversions. Another gentleman on youtube actually removes the compressor and attempts to pour oil out of it before adding an equal amount of POE back into the system.

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Yes right in with the mineral oil. Trust me its fine. Just add about 5 to 10% of the oz of oil that came with the compressor. The data is on the compressor. I usually just add in about five to six ounces of the POE and it suffices.

[@josem.8159]

@@foxfamilyhvac , Senor, no debo retirar el aceite mineral del compressor y si colocar mas 20% de POE junto al mineral? Correcto?

[@wata_laf]

I’ve never added oil the compressor running if I needed to replace oil. Also, I always charge the system after so I can let the oil settle in the crank case.

[@albertomedrano6894]

How did you get the old oil out?

[@Nelos57slp]

Hi love your videos. Question, you don't have to remove the mineral oil from compressor and then add the POE?

[@markspc1]

NELOS you ask hard question and for that you don't get an answer, he-he !

[@ivanl8613]

@@markspc1f c k

[@Gm94.1]

But if mineral oil and poe oil mixing then will problem not happen?

[@WASIMEDOO]

Please help me i want to change from r22 to r407 but i can't get the poe oil because it is hard to get where i am from Guyana will it works or will it caused a problem with the system please let me know thanks

[@user-zi6os4jv6w]

Can u just go over why u did that. If u go from 22 to 407c is that what u have to do? And u said that u would save them some cash by not using 22, so how much did that all (the 407c, the oil and the labor) cost? Ive never done that before so i am very curious...

[@jk685]

Great Video! Did you need to remove any old mineral oil??

[@Andrew-kj1vu]

You can have 10% max residual mineral in POE before it becomes an issue

[@ivancook1247]

Have you used the,super change product

[@philklassner2815]

Isn't that volume of oil entering the compressor the equivalent of a liquid slug of refrigerant? Why no compressor damage?

[@libertyrich555]

No, read my reply above to Ralph's Heating.

[@ilovenythismuchilovenewyor5801]

real question is how do you know when you need to add the refrigerant oil ??

[@foxfamilyhvac]

All new compressors these days come with POE oil, so in that case you don't need to add it. If it's an existing mineral oil compressor (it'll say it on the compressor) just add about 5% of the total amount of oil that came in the compressor (also on the compressor)

[@ilovenythismuchilovenewyor5801]

@@foxfamilyhvac my question is how do you know wgwb you need to add to a system old or new especially after it had a big refrigerant leak

[@TropicBreezeRealty]

@@foxfamilyhvac So, when installing a brand new system with new everything. Do I need to add oil? I'm currently at the stage of pulling a deep vacuum and I'm unsure of what to do next. Do I just open the valves and allow the refrigerant to flow?

[@jimbola77]

Thanks fox 4 sharing love all your work God Bless Brother.

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Awesome man. Thanks as always for watching!

[@johnandree970]

How much oil does the system take 5 ton?

[@jaredj631]

I have been getting mixed info. i thought you had to remove the old oil for a conversion??

[@foxfamilyhvac]

nope

[@magnoliav12]

Why can't you just pull a vacuum on the system and put the new oil in that way? I do that on R134 systems, is there a reason why you can't do it the same way?

[@adbrozonez6068]

The system oil loss? So with Poe oil in t will recovery the loss oil ?, how to know if the oil is loss ?

[@royolao10]

What about on refrigeration systems medium temp Mr. fox family heating and air conditionng ? , nice info by the way!!

[@foxfamilyhvac]

I really dont have a lot experience with those types of coolers. I only work on resi hvac systems.

[@howardferguson1281]

Might want to where gloves when handling refrigerant. Good saftey practice.

[@wrongplanet1957]

Need to cap your hose n keep it in the hose it drains n pulls in moisture , pump and hose stay attached till you can flush it and clean it , keep it in a big freezer bag zip top , gal bag or bigger maybe

[@bettershooter]

I got an amateur question, how can you avoid oil mix with refrigerant ? May this mix cause the failure of system later ?

[@Mr_Daddy1980]

Oil is supposed to be mixed with the refrigerant....

[@hvac1015]

why do you usa r 407c when you can use mo99 that works with existing mineral oil ?

[@markhoffmann5941]

yes, MO-99 would have worked great.

[@robertspadezhinton]

Do it matter what goes on first...? Do you apply oil first then charge..? Or vice versa

[@foxfamilyhvac]

It really doesn't matter. :)

[@rocker8692]

How bad is it just to stay with the mineral oil?

[@marklennon1580]

There was air introduced into this system as showed due to the fact that when the hose was attached to the condensing coil there was trapped air between the low lose fitting and the low side service valve-granted it was not much air, but a little air in an ac unit is to much air, it should have been purged before opening low loss valve.

[@carlosemmanuelgarciabrito791]

What type oil r404a use ?

[@davidrandolph32]

Hey boss man this is just a question came to my mind just asking. What if you go to a customer house and they don’t won’t to change there unit out right that moment or make the repair right but they wanted to save money to get them through the summer. You still have to go through the same steps pulling all the R22 out right and vacuuming the system before going that route of adding the oil and the 407 right? Because I keep seeing different ways on KZbin

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Yes sir. you said it right.

[@umminkug]

Thanks Greg. Should I use POE 32 or 68? I see people on KZbin using 32. I got local Johnstone telling me 68. Please let me know! Thank you!

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Either is fine. But I would go with 68.

[@umminkug]

@Fox Family Heating and Air Conditioning Thanks for your response. Could you kindly elaborate why you would? And do I still stick with 15-20% mix? Should I do anything different from using poe 32?

[@mcallentxramirez3628]

What was going on with the unit that u had to put oil in it?

[@gene-khvacr]

This yj pump can it be also used to pump oil out of compressor -semi herms, nice vid thanks for sharing 👍👍

[@lopaka79]

I have a tool that connects to the crank case oil plug with a tube and king valve. pressurize the crankcase with nitro and watch the oil come shooting out

[@lopaka79]

@Gene K found something close to what I use to remove oil from semi herms minus the valve. All you do is pump down/recover. Install oil tap onto compressor oil plug. Connect nitro+ref gauges to the crankcase port "normally where your low pressure switch is connected". Then very slightly crack your gauge open (low controlled pressure) and watch the oil egress. www.cdvalve.com/product-categories/tools/cd1808/10-166

[@copkhan007]

Can you mix POE #32 with the oil which is already inside the R22 compressor without removing the compressor oil first??

[@randydixon773]

Would like the answer to that too. Also,when doing a compressor change out, do we just assume the factory put in the correct amount of oil? Any way to verify?

[@handyrepairgeneral2451]

Yellow jacket pump, how can I get this?

[@ificandoityoucandoit6507]

Great video! Question: 15 to 20% of POE oil of the mineral oil removed from compressor?

[@rc51price]

I use a short hose. Less oil

[@utubepro7742]

Awesome retrofit save you big money on 22

[@RalphsHeating]

I think it is better to pump in slow during operation. Pumping that much oil wile off could slug the compressor and cause damage.

[@privateaccount4964]

John Heritage so you add the 407 first? Or have the unit running without any refrigerant while adding the oil then add the 407?

[@libertyrich555]

I doubt it. Take the time and cut open a bad tin can compressor and you will see it would take about a gallon of oil or more to slug one of those units since the suction intake inside is near the top of the shell but the oil level in the tin cans is about four inches or less. Now, on commercial semi hermetic's such as the ERF2 compressors, the suction line goes directly into the suction head, with small openings/holes that 'drain' into the crank. Those style compressors will slug. The refrigerants that frack tell you to liquid charge, and they don't slug. The slugging warning came from the 50's up to the 80's due to the semi hermetics. We had and still do have service valves without schraders so there were no restrictions and the gas would go in so fast and directly into the suction valves, causing a flooding. The warning continued when tin cans became dominant in residential in the 60's with GE. I remember the old Chrysler r-500's, the compressor looked like R2D2 and the suction was on the top, easy to slug those units. BTW, before scroll's, the piston hermetic units internal discharge tubing dropped inside and circled the base to heat the oil and cause the refrigerant to boil out, preventing foaming of the refrigerant if a unit lost a fan, belt or the evap coil was plugged. In 1977 , The News publication had an article on "RSC", Reserve Storage Capacity. This is important with residential compressors. If you ever worked on the older refrigerators you'd remember how big the compressors were. That was for two reasons, the motors used more material back then, and they designed the compressors to hole the entire refrigerant charge due to migration, knowing that the refrigerator would most likely sit around for possibly months before it was bought. Then when they took it home and plugged it in the gas would boil off but the design of holding the complete charge prevented slugging when it started and the damage from the foaming was also prevented. Disagree if you wish, but those infusers to charge with liquid were for commercial units, not AC or residential refrigeration, and on commercial where the suction went into the head we just throttled the valves or screwed a Schrader into the 1/4" brass fitting which atomized the refrigerant. I've NEVER slugged a compressor in 50 yrs.

[@jonotoole7109]

I'm very new to this. I'm understanding that putting 15% of oil into the system on top of what's in there already. Any chance of too much oil in the system

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Not really. Read how many ounces of mineral oil are in the compressor and add 15% of that amount of POE oil into the system.

[@nategadow4482]

once you open a can of poe and use it on a system, do you dispose of the rest of the can?

[@foxfamilyhvac]

we dont, no. Because of the moisture? Is that why your asking?

[@nategadow4482]

+Fox Family Heating and Air Conditioning. Yes the moisture

[@joeygeorge2628]

@@nategadow4482 i shoot a bit of nitrogen in the can to purge and close it

[@justdissin7340]

Does r401a has the same oil?im replacing a condenser that has 1lb of r410a refrigerant from factory, can i recover that r410a & replace with r407c refrigerant? Original split system is r22

[@rodneythornhill9526]

I like to use 422b as a retrofit no oil change required. Nice video Greg keep up the good work.

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Thanks for the good info man. You keep it up too out there.

[@10rninjariderzx]

407c has less capacity loss than nu22

[@troyclaus9258]

I'm using 422b and losing compressors. I'm thinking of adding a little (about 12oz ) POE oil.

[@lifeloveandroadvlogs744]

Great video ,you maite flush you hose with nitrogen for cleaning the oily issue. Thank for the video

[@kennybaker16]

Someone tell me if I'm at least in the right track. I ve only ever added 407 on a compressor changeout. So fox is saying since he recovered to do the evap change that all he needs to do now is add 407 and 15% Poe and he's good?

[@jimbanville]

A tech recently installed a new coil to my old r22 system and swapped over to 407c. Can you give me the specifics on the Schrader valve replacement? Its a 5 yr old goodman condenser with Bristol compressor. Thx!

[@kodieivie]

Thanks guys!

[@RobertNiez]

Did you just leave the old mineral oil and add few ounces of POE?

[@foxfamilyhvac]

yes sir

[@Bryan-Hensley]

@@foxfamilyhvac I've just recently had a long conversation with Copeland and Dupont. They say the wax will harden in the mineral oil after 6 months to a year if left in the system..

[@yoyohooyo]

my condensing unit is a 2 1/2 ton Goodman CKJ-24-1, How much oil does it have in it?? Where can I find that information?

[@foxfamilyhvac]

right on the compressor is the the oz. of oil and type

[@aircooledtx]

Good oil change jiffy Fox..

[@محمداسماعيل-ق3ي3ح]

Can I use Amkarate RL68 as a substitute for suniso sl 32 oil ?? & thank you very much

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Not sure about that one. Never looked into doing that.

[@fastlife866]

Question, im replacing an old 5 ton condenser r22 to a 5 ton r407c condenser. Keeping the old lineset n evaporator coil. Do i need to flush the system or add any oil. The new condenser is pre charged. Old condenser is still running so no burn out. Im going to do an acid test incase. I just wasn't sure if the poe will mix if the old system has mineral oil in it.

[@foxfamilyhvac]

no it won't hurt anything. hook the new unit right up to the old lines.

[@chriznick]

You could have just used MO99 instead. Just replace the filter drier & replace the Schrader cores. You would be good to go a very easy retrofit

[@foxfamilyhvac]

We like it 407c because its the closest match to R22in capacity. It's gone somewhat mainstream with York/Guardian making R407c dry units. And a lower discharge temp makes it the best choice for us. But yes, MO99 and Nu22b are other refrigerants I would use. But it just didnt make the cut for us. Thanks as always for the discussion.

[@mwdub02]

chriznick It’s actually a good practice to change the filter drier and the schrader cores whenever you do a retrofit.

[@mbburry4759]

Why the Schrader cores? Why does that need to be replaced?

[@ckpeltier]

@@mbburry4759 The Schrader core rubber seals expand in the presence of R22 but then contract with R407c causing potential leaks.

[@Yodaddynyomama]

Thx for sharing this tip much appreciated 👍

[@user-tf7rw7pk2r]

Nice practice! putting your finger in the contactor wit a wet ground!!! LOL

[@alicepet1994]

What's the best POE for R407C?

[@foxfamilyhvac]

doesn't really matter. I would suggest getting smaller bottles of it if you going to be servicing more than one unit. POE soaks in moisture quickly. Keeping a sealed container is important.

[@palamidi13]

very interesting video! well done!

[@MrGarcon98]

thanks for sharing this first of all ,,,,,QUESTIONING THIS ! because i am retired tech 65 years old , my neighbor was having an issue with his unit and here is a tech working on it so i in troduced myself and mentioned i been watching videos on utube about retrofit of r22 to 407c , and he told me NOT TO DO THIS ? he was telling me that this refrigerant is very tempermental and he had years working with it ? and telling me that if a DROP of only 10 psig will cause the system to do NOTHING AT ALL no cooling because of this drop due to a leak i woud imagine and he says youll be going crazy t rying to figure out what went wrong and where ? and of course the TXV also would need to be changed from the r 22 system and not just do the oil treatment only ,,,,,just mentioning this cause he had me thinking ,, he said he had many years of working with 407 ,,,,,so ,,,,,,we are in august of 2018 ,,,just so we know how long this will be here if long at all ,,,,,be safe everyone

[@foxfamilyhvac]

bug Den honestly we have had no issues at all with 407c. It's the closest match to r22 so actually there is less issues with this refrigerant than the other alternatives. They're even selling 407c units mainstream now to replace the condensers. Check it out! Thanks for watching!

[@MrGarcon98]

thank you ,i will find this guy and try to reason with him so we can all learn ,,,,never too old to learn LOL ,,,,thanks for the reply young man ,,,

[@MrGarcon98]

back in the days we where also told that NU 22 was to be the change out ? what happened to that ,,,,,OH BY THE WAY IN MEXICO THEY ARE USING R22 ALL DAY LONG ,,,just thouth id say that cause we all know this nothing but a dupont or who ever holds pattends on these refregerants ,,,,money making deal all over again ,,,,it will never stop unless we make it stop ,,,,,august 2018 for the record

[@MrGarcon98]

nice that you had no problem with it ? having said that the tech that i met has years and years of working with this 407c and he tells me its because most people have not worked with it long enough to experience what it does ,,,,he told me to tell you to just drop 10 psig to the system and see what its does ? he is a nice person just trying to warn me NOT TO DO IT to my own unit here at my house ,,,,i was thinking about it because of so many videos on it but ! i guess time is the essence here ? ,,,,,hope all goes well just trying to help one another i am retired so ,,,,,

[@ferminisiordia7444]

Have you try 427A Refrirant?

[@deanmartin1966]

I was wondering the same thing. 427A is suppose to be similar to R22. Plus it works with mineral oil. Also no need to replace filter dryer or valve cores.

[@ferminisiordia7444]

deanmartin1966 yes i started using it last year and it seems to work fine.specially if short line set or package unit.

[@dudefixesstuff2153]

So this is a new install?

[@tylerbrewer3163]

Dude Makes Stuff no it is a retro fit

[@foxfamilyhvac]

No not an install at all. This was for an evap coil we changed on an R22 system.

[@bradleymorey]

Thanks for sharing,

[@benjaminkonoplisky9685]

I thought you had to remove oil on a 407C retrofit and weigh in the 15% to the amount you removed as to prevent over oiling, which as I have been tought breaks scroll springs.

[@blazebutterkidssportchannel]

Can anyone tell me what normal operating pressures for r407C is without all the "theres alot of factors that come into play" But just for the heck of it lets say its 95 degrees outside 83 degrees inside on a 3 ton split system. Also does the suction line sweating give a good idea of proper charge with r407c because i recently installed a 407c condenser coil and went thru the proper steps of flushing system, replacing filter drier and so forth my indoor temp was at 87 degrees suction pressure at 71, had a 23 delta t put the suction line was not sweating nor was it beer can cold. I should probaly mention that the humidity was higher then normal today. So guys plz, what is an acceptable range for r407c and is beer can cold any indicator of proper charge. Disclaimer: I understand the the beer can cold technique is outdated and ill advised as a way to check for proper charge, i understand in order to properly charge a unit best method is weight it, superheat or subcool, nonetheless we all touch that suction line just get an idea of how well unit is cooling, so im just wanting to know if r407c has properties in which sweating line is no clear indication of cooling. Someone plz advise, any info will be greatly appreciated. Yours truly an Inquiring mind.

[@maynardr6]

The suction line will almost always sweat. If it's not cold, it means your superheat is really high. For example, if the evaporator condensing temperature was 38 degrees, and the suction line wasn't cold, you know you have a superheat of something like 40-45 degrees. And sweating just means the line is colder than the dew point. If the dew point is 38 degrees, well then you're probably not running the ac anyway. That said, it'll sweat when it's overcharged too, like if you had a 38 degree evap, and 0 superheat, the suction line will be nice and cold....and you might slug the compressor and break it. Or if you have a txv metering device on the evap, an overcharge might have a fine superheat, but with high condensing temperatures and wasteful amp draw on the compressor. Anyway, I'd put money your system being undercharged if the suction line isn't cold. If you have a txv, you need to charge to subcool, and just take notice that the superheat is within reason. If you have a piston, charge by the superheat and take notice that subcool is within reason.

[@yoyohooyo]

Thanks for the info

[@HVACRDUDE]

Who the hell runs indoor BX for an outdoor wet location...love it...holy hell

[@HVACRDUDE]

35% is what's recommended not 15% ... And the correct procedure is to remove the compressor and dump it Into a container and put 90% of the new oil in...but hey what do I know

[@HVACRDUDE]

Sounded like you just did this repair for the first time....bc you wouldn't have a brand new pump it would be old and beat up like mine...I've done that repair over 300 times and you will most definitely be back by just adding...good luck

[@HVACRDUDE]

Cap the hose...🤦🏿‍♂️

[@Jamz2k]

Why the hell did he charge it back up with 407c

[@kevinwashington100]

used a finger to push the contact to work, scare me!

[@avm5717]

Model #?

[@Guy4UnderDog]

Are hoses that expensive? Just leave a hose on the pump. Find some kind of cap for the intake and don't worry about moisture getting into the oil ???

[@davidschwartz5127]

Why not dedicate a hose to the pump for just pumping POE oil in the HVAC system? Never drain the oil out of it.

[@theairconditioningguy]

What a mess. Good to know.

[@fredfarley4529]

You should purge the oil through you pump and into a waste collection container and not on the ground. Just saying.

[@robrocco5420]

to get the oil out of the line just blast it out with nitrogen

[@tylerbrewer3163]

You really dont need 15% per say, you can get by with 4 oz. The poe is to help the mineral oil return to the crank case

[@tylerbrewer3163]

Also i hope you changed the schrader valve cores mr fox

[@foxfamilyhvac]

Thank you!

[@rafiekjhaw8594]

You can use. Baking soda that is better

[@avm5717]

👍

[@joshuarice3404]

Never use your finger

[@pedroavila9433]

Wow pushing the contractor with bare fingers and no hand gloves to hook up your refrigerant hose to the system and to handle the oil, I’m sorry for being a bit critical and I can tell you’re a great guy but have your coworker use some hand gloves and a screwdriver to push that contractor next time and again sorry for being critical

[@foxfamilyhvac]

All good. Thx for the input 😊

[@robertromero289]

I’m in Az and I don’t see any techs wear gloves except on installs, 26 years for me and I barehand it too! I’m more curious that there is what appears to be MC cable on the outdoor wiring and not seal tight conduit.