0071 Fixing a Commodore 16 with modern parts, a bunch of NOS Apple parts and testing MOS chips

[@SteveDrees]

The Motion Server card is a motor controller card that was used in a development environment for an industrial pick and place machine I worked on. Decvelopment was in Modula-2 running under DOS. The pick and place would do automatic inspection of the underside ball grid arrays before placing the die in either a tape and reel or a waffle pack. I happened across the card when I was boxing up the NOS Apple stuff and threw it in. I really should have added a note explaining that. Loved the episode, glad you were able to find some useful things in the stuff from the attic.

[@Toonrick12]

What's the CPU then? Some sort of AMD 486 or something?

[@SteveDrees]

@@Toonrick12 I have no idea what the CPU is on there. I only ever dealt with using the card, not with programming the firmware of the card.

[@No-mq5lw]

​@@Toonrick12 AMD or UMC 486. Cyrix includes markings on the bottom like Intel does.

[@bitteroldskunk]

I was going to say that card looks like a multi-axis card you would find in a CNC controller.

[@douro20]

Is it even possible to get the software anymore for those Orca 2 FPGAs?

[@johnsonlam]

Electronics master Mr. Carlson's Lab did teach us twist off the surface mount capacitors, it's the right way.

[@octane613]

I thought I was the only one who watched him. Such a talented dude.

[@No-mq5lw]

I've managed to desolder those off a few times. 100% not worth it vs twist and rip.

[@LeoA2600]

How he restores those old radio receivers never ceases to amaze me when I watch one of his videos.

[@johnsonlam]

@@No-mq5lw It's OK for you to be safe, but this method proof many times on video won't rip the copper trace on the board, except the trace itself flaky.

[@jaycee1980]

@@johnsonlam i have had many boards on my bench where people have twisted or cut the capacitors off, and caused trace damage as a result. If you don't know what you're doing, dont do it. The correct way is hot air or hot tweezers. IPC-7711C/7721C says so and that's the international standard approval for board rework.

[@BlueBarnTech]

Always love your honesty! Most people would have edited out the potential damage to the 6526. Everyone makes mistakes and I so appreciate you showing reality.

[@michellelawson4267]

I have to laugh because I wired the power to a couple of TTL chips, on the project I'm working on, completely backwards. They got a bit toasty by the time I made that discovery. But, they worked fine once I swapped the power. Many years ago I had a friend of mine do some testing on an 8K Ithaca Audio memory card for me. That card had two pins for an external battery with ran to two unused S100 bus pins. Turned out my friend used the exact same two pins for low voltage AC to power the power supply on his EPROM burner board. Needless to say. all of the 21L02 memory chips got AC across the power and ground. He said he could see the heat rising off the board. But they all still worked once things got corrected. I used that card for years.

[@oidadesgibtsned]

In my opinion, that's perfectly ok. Boneheaded stuff happens on occasion - we all aren't exempt from doing it. Owning up to the mistake, fixing it or learning from it and moving on is what counts. I like the positive, honest attitude.

[@N9TAX]

Been twisting caps off for 25 years!! Never ripped a trace. Long live the cap twisters lol..

[@TechnicolorMammoth]

I’m so happy you now have the time to not only go through things you haven’t opened, but stuff you have but never had the chance to test out. I support this literally and I’m so happy for you!

[@tankgrrl]

The Motion Server card is a 16-axis CAM control board. Those Orca chips are FPGAs. That's likely essentially a single-purpose PC on a card. Generally all the ones I've ever come across were Motorola-based. And this was once a cheaper way to get ahold of a 68040s [not saying that's an '040, just some back-story].

[@evertonshorts9376]

My first thought was that it was a 68030 because it looks much like the one I had in my Amiga.

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

So for controlling CNCs perhaps?

[@danyoutube7491]

When he got the VGA card out of the same box and thought it couldn't be Apple related, I wonder if it could be used via the Motion Server card if it is indeed a PC on a card, giving an Apple user full DOS compatability.

[@LifeOnHoth]

@@adriansdigitalbasement2 Not gonna claim I know what this specifically is. Just wanted to point out there are many uses for motion control hardware. All kinds of industrial robots and process control. The card probably can run its own show so to speak, but I bet has a protocol droid in there to interface to networks commonly used by the PLC industry. I've never used something like this specifically, but I've worked on a couple of systems that used similar cards to that one as part of a bigger network. That was process control and safety stuff. Just wanted to get your imagination going haha, as I said I don't know what this particular card is meant for.

[@tankgrrl]

@@adriansdigitalbasement2 Yep. CNC, production automation (converyors, pickers, etc), anything with a bunch of servos.

[@andrewhamop6665]

Ive seen similar baffling resilience with an EPROM. I plugged the dang thing in backwards and something inside glowed like a lightbulb! I quickly switched off the power and figured I had definitely killed it, but somehow it was perfectly fine. These old DIP chips can surprise you sometimes that's for sure.

[@danielmantione]

MOS chips have two faces: Their first face is that they fall by the fleet. Their second face is that they are indestructible as tanks.

[@Otakunopodcast]

Several months ago, I was building a Z80 single board computer and wasn't watching what I was doing and hit the wrong memory preset button on my bench power supply. I ended up sending 24V straight into the poor thing. To my surprise, the only chip that blew up was the AS6C4008 SRAM. Everything else -- Z80, CTC, SIO, flash EEPROM, various 74 series logics, UART to RS232 chip, etc. -- survived perfectly intact and fully functional.

[@crazor01]

27:35 Just a heads up: It's not always the greatest idea to replace an electrolytic capacitor with a ceramic one. Some circuits (e.g. old linear regulators) will start oscillating if the ESR is too low, which can be fixed by sticking a .5R or 1R resistor in series with the cap. For bypassing applications, a larger value may be needed than what the original electrolytic had, because the capacitance drops with increasing voltage across the cap. It depends on the dielectric material used, but as a rule of thumb: the largest value MLCC caps that have the same capacity as small-ish electrolytics need as much as 50-70% derating when using them near their nominal voltage. Always check the datasheet of the specific cap you buy!

[@rapiqui]

It was nice to see 264 part. Kudos to Daniël for his contribution to the community by opening his projects. The C16/116/+4 PLA replacement is sweet. I made an SMD version rework, just in case anyone might be interested. In regards of that 6502 clone notes: the Oric Atmos (not Armos) was a British microcomputer from Tangerine, not french, although they had good sale figures there.

[@francoisrevol7926]

ORIC "became" French when they got bought by Eureka, then the Startos got rebranded as Telestrat…

[@splangley]

With regards to capacitor removal and replacement, you do you Adrian. There are so few people with both your level of expertise and exuberance for these devices that simply the fact you are still able and willing to work on them to keep them alive is most welcome. Keep up the good work.

[@HammysHangout]

I approve of the twist removal of caps, i do it all the time when streaming cap repairs.

[@jjock3239]

A really interesting video. I have an eprom burner for a C64, that I purchased in the Netherlands back in the early 1980s To hell with those fantastic Dutch chocolates, it is the Dutch coffee I want. I used to bring several pounda of coffee home regularly, it was the best. I met a fellow over there that became a good friend. Whenever I was over there, I would often stay with his family, and we would go to computer shows. The boards they developed for the C64 back then, were enough to stagger the imagination. I was crushed when the airline I worked for stopped flying there. Good memories.

[@Sayakas_Digital_Attic]

Great video! Really enjoyed watching it and what an intriguing project!

[@danielmantione]

I've seen your latest video. Now you know what to do ;)

[@der.Schtefan]

Faster chips that have faster rise times in their outputs often disturb older chips. The faster a signal goes from 0 to 1, the more higher frequencies are generated. The interference caused might knock out chips down the line. Sometimes those sharp edges also expose hidden flaws and race conditions that were never noticed.

[@kasamialt]

The CIA in the VIC II socket would've gotten 12v on PB3, which in the U1 position would be a keyboard row. It looks like you had a test harness on for the keyboard and that test passed perfectly, so not only did the chip survive but the specific pin seems to have survived too. That's pretty awesome.

[@JulienMR]

My god, you used a new camera angle and everything looks new to me, a whole new world 😂

[@BasicBitesCA]

32:00 Apparently the MOS 5710 is a cost-reduced CIA for the 128DCR's internal 1571 drive. From the MOS Technology CIA article on Wikipedia: "Commodore embedded reduced (just 4 registers) CIA-like logic for the cost reduced Commodore 1571 inside the C128DCR (See Commodore 128) in a gate array called 5710 which also contains other functions. The 5710 CIA has the serial clock for the fast serial interface hardwired to a CIA6526 equivalent Timer A value of 5, leading to a per-bit time of 5μs on transmission. This is different from what used to be a Timer A value of 6 in the 6526 CIA in the original Commodore 1571. The 5710 CIA does not contain timer or timer control registers. It only contains two port registers and the register to control the serial shifter and its event." -- JC

[@physnoct]

If you have a permanent setup, you can replace Dupont connectors with wire wrap. It's very stable over time.

[@tim1724]

That tiny 64k memory board for the //e is the version that shipped preinstalled in the platinum //e. That must be a service part. It remained a separate part for compatibility, as you expected.

[@bjn714]

The 12V goes into pin 13 on the VIC-II, which on the 6526 is Port B3. Probably lucked out big time, because that should have been the end of port B working properly, but the register was clearly still functional since it passed the diagnostic.

[@jwhite5008]

That is the keyboard + joystick port if I understand correctly. I guess those pins might have some built in protection against static electricity or the like? I'm starting to wonder that this is why there are quite a few CIAs with (partially) dead keyboard port and nothing else.

[@bjn714]

@@jwhite5008 there may be _some_ protection, but given the number of failed CIAs out there, I expect it's not adequate against higher voltage events like what you'd get with direct static discharge. It's probably fine with 12V for a limited time like what happened here, but static discharge can be in the kV range, which is almost certainly a death sentence for these ICs.

[@jwhite5008]

@@bjn714 The protection I'm speaking of is basically zener diodes effectively shorting the high voltage to ground. It is supposed to withstand a few kV at microampere currents. It might hold against 12v for a brief moment before overheating, shorting itself, and then destroying the chip's bonding wires. This kind of protection is common in most modern chips - otherwise those would die instantly from every rogue touch. The technology existed back then but was much less common - probably due to cost and static electricity having almost no effect on TTLs and less damaging to coarser-process CMOS. I have no idea if it was implemented in CIAs.

[@YARC-1981]

6526 in the VIC socket. I do that kind of thing all the time. I thought you were better. Glad to see we're all human.

[@miked4377]

nice job adrian....you always show how it should be done!!hope your enjoying your new life!!

[@jasmijndekkers]

Nice goodies Adrian. Thankx for sharing with us. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands

[@Stefan_Payne]

As for Default Input of the RT5X: Just make a Profile and in the OSD Menu of the RT5X you can set the default profile to load (IIRC Its one at Default).

[@Alexlfm]

The IIe power connector on the IIgs would have been used when the IIgs board was used as an “upgrade” for an original IIe. Apparently Apple offered an upgrade service where they would swap parts of the case and the logic board to turn the IIe into a IIgs. Very rare from what I understand. This upgrade kept the original IIe power supply.

[@shawnj4545]

My heart broke just a little when Adrian said "Commodore 800XL" :(

[@slaapliedje]

The A64 and C800XL... Ha, in all actuality, it should have been the C16/32 and the Atari Amiga.

[@rachelaudrey6241]

Retrotink 5x is one of the best upscalers available. It is, however, not designed to be plugged into and expected to produce perfect results without further tweaking. A simple, properly configured Generic 4:3 profile set as default would alleviate all your issues with the exclusion of certain machines not following video standards correctly because CRTs really don't care much about what you pipe into it, which is not a fault of the upscaler, but the computer itself. The general rule is 5x for consoles and whatever else it handles through trial and error (I'd presume most 8 bit computers work just fine if you take the time to calibrate, since they're glorified consoles with a keyboard attached, anyway), OSSC for the more finnicky, non-standard devices (pretty much just computers).

[@mogwaay]

Really like the new wide cam for unboxing bench 😊

[@mogwaay]

Lol I totally didn't notice it was old footage!

[@lbrentevans]

The iigs motherboard belongs in a performa 575 case, with a 3 1/2 and 5 1/4, drives in place, along with every upgrade that can be shoved in there with it. It could be the evolution of what would have happened if the iigs had won over the Macintosh.

[@root42]

I have both Daniel‘s 8501 replacement as well as the FPGA replacement by… I forgot. Both work equally well and have similar price points. For the 6502 based replacement it is worthy of note that you need a 6502A or a 6502 that is able to run at the 1.6 MHz or whatever that the 264 machines use.

[@retrozmachine1189]

ICs can be remarkably hard to kill. A dead Star Micronics DMP came in to me for repair. Power on, lights on but no one's home. Check +5v, up over 10V, the regulator had failed short. Replace, and to my surprise all the chips survived, even the bog standard 74LS.

[@InfiniteBrain]

The support we get is pretty staggering, too. Thanks!

[@Psychlist1972]

That's the only reasonable way to get those bad caps off. They are a bear to desolder while the top is still on.

[@codahighland]

Yes, GS/OS will load those routines into RAM if they aren't in ROM. The 03 revision thus had much faster loading times when booting into GS/OS.

[@Duddie82]

In the 1980's my parents ordered the Commodore plus 4. It was never sent to me. My dad contacted the TV station where he sent payment, and they warehouse was empty. Talk about disappointing. My Commodore worked fine, so I just kept programming in Basic from my bedroom.

[@georgedyson9754]

Yay - a maxi mail call! Goodie!

[@boardsort]

10:15 Not all Intel ceramics are marked on the bottom. I believe you are correct however and this is not an Intel as the heat spreader is a bit too small. Instead my guess is that it is an AMD AM486, perhaps even a DX4-100 based on the length of the gold corner tab.

[@greatwhiteretro]

Replacements for the TED chip, 264 PLA, 264 CPU and 264 I/O? If only I had more time learn how to make a new motherboard along the lines of the VIC 2020.

[@GarthBeagle]

For that Apple IIe card, you can get a very inexpensive replacement PCB based adapter for the external cable from Joe (Joe's Computer Museum) called "Why Cable?" The card will work without any modifications in a LC 575 (in a Color Classic) you just need to be running a version of system software that'll allow you to run in 24-bit addressing, so it'd need to be 7.5.x or earlier

[@grabo454]

I have a LCII and an LC 475 you could use to test that card in.

[@tim1724]

Not every IIGS shipped with that memory expansion board. The early ROM 00 machines mostly shipped without it. Sometime early on, though, they realized that the built-in 256 KB (128 KB fast, 128 KB slow) wasn't enough and they started bundling the 256 KB card with it. I don't recall whether that happened before or after the ROM 01 upgrade. The ROM 3 motherboard includes 1 MB of fast RAM (plus the 128 KB of slow RAM) built-in, so those never shipped with a RAM expansion board. (The unreleased Mark Twain board had 2 MB of fast RAM (plus 128 KB of slow RAM) and replaced the RAM expansion slot with SIMM slots.) The ROM 3's ROM contains the System 5 version of the toolbox. When running System 6 some toolsets are replaced entirely with RAM versions (if the changes were very large) but a lot of tools just have a few small changes, so System 6 just patches those individual routines where necessary. (Toolsets are structured such that some routines can be located in RAM while others are in ROM.) For example, when running System 6 the Menu Manager is a RAM-based toolset on ROM 01 machines (loaded from the Tool015 file), but the ROM routines are used on the ROM 3, with just a few routines patched out to fix some bugs (via the TS3 file, which contains the toolbox patches for ROM 3 machines).

[@projectartichoke]

Adrian, don't forget to plug in your condensate pump when you start using your furnace. I noticed that it's unplugged.

[@AndrewJones-tj6et]

It gonna be a great one when you say "It friggin works" @35:51.

[@PerBengtsson]

We all do stupid mistakes like putting chips in the wrong way and sometimes we get lucky. The 12V was connected to pin 13 (PB3) but the chip also received 5V on it's GND pin so the potential on pin 13 was probably around 7V which should be far better than 12V. What I don't know is how that may have affected other pins that must have been exposed to potentials of -5V.

[@CyranoJones509]

I picked up a couple of LCs a few years back, and I think there was one of those Apple II cards in one of them

[@miked4377]

excellent video adrian

[@Dreamshadow1977]

Ginger snaps are awesome!

[@lindoran]

Just repaired a Tek scope from the 90s by twisting the caps off. If they weren't leaking it would be a complete different story. In that case there was a ton of embedded tactile switches and potentiometers printed on the circuit board. Hot air would have been a real bad idea

[@adagioleopard6415]

The caps didn't make me squirm. But I can't say the same for that skew LSI Logic silk on that chip. XD

[@gilleszunino]

Love your videos ! I also like the different shooting angle at about minute 44 ! What are the devices on top of the power supply, on the left of the "DANGER" sign ?

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

You know I'm not sure anymore. That footage was recorded a few years ago and I don't think I have those anymore. I was testing them but IIRC they didn't end up working so I passed them onto someone else.

[@slaapliedje]

Haha, I put in the VDC in my c128 backwards, luckily it did not fry it. Also accidentally used my c128 PSU on my Amiga 500... made a smell, but apparently just caused some weirdness where it wouldn't boot until the chips were removed then replaced... so odd.

[@tim1724]

The //e card for the Mac LC does _not_ use the Mega II chip from the IIGS. This is a common misconception. In fact the card uses a different chip, Gemini, which works very differently (largely due to the need to communicate with the host Mac).

[@mondo8bit]

Wow… the 8501 replacement is veeeery interesting, I didn’t know Daniel did it! And, great gift the //gs brand new board 👍🙂

[@gsestream]

thanks steve, TED machines sound DED, if not full then surrounded by.

[@paulluce2557]

There is a shorts channel I watch, A guy from Maine who catches Lobsters, cant remember the channel name. He demonstrates the whole process of which lobsters caught are graded for keeping , or throwing back into the sea based on size , sex, whether females are 'egging' , condition etc. Many times the lobsters have barnacles on them which can harm the lobsters if they are on a limb joint or near the mouth or eyes etc. His method.. is a pair of pliers and he removes them in exactly the same way as Adrian pulls off leaking surface mount caps...

[@godzil42]

The pravetz 8D was a clone of the Oric 1 / Oric Atmos (not armos) and was not French of origin, but British. I never seen you with one of these computer in your bassement, I was wondering if you would be interested to have one of these?

[@Dee_Just_Dee]

37:50 Argh, center-negative barrel jacks. Such a mean-spirited thing to use. It's like Commodore was just *_hoping_* for people to fry their machines. "Hey, you remember the fine print saying to only use an official Commodore® power supply? We freakin' told ya so!"

[@slaapliedje]

ROM 3 IIGS improved it so I could use the MegaAudio card and the mouse at the same time on Slot 4, so it is definitely a win over ROM 00 and ROM 01!

[@autingo6583]

Viewer from Germany here. A small typo in the letter: It's actually the Oric A"t"mos and from a british company, although often mistaken as french (thought so myself until very recently). :-D

[@IanPtv]

After financial problems it was briefly owned by a French company before going out of business entirely.

[@autingo6583]

​@@IanPtvInteresting, thx!

[@zakm0n]

Hampton VA! I didn't send those, but I'm watching from here. We have Nasa Langley Research Center here, so I imagine we have tons of cool old tech floating around. On an unrelated note, I'm a Type 1 diabetic as well, any chance yoy have any cool old diabetes tech like old insulin pumps?

[@rager1969]

I felt a bit disappointed when you said you would use those ribbon cables in a future project. I guess I was hoping you'd be a good steward for that old piece of tech and keep the card and it's cable together for someone who may really need/want that. Then again, it's pretty niche and likely obsolete.

[@JVHShack]

*Not Sponsored* Joe's Computer Museum sells a part called "Why Cable?" for the Apple IIe card, iirc.

[@TomFynn]

"the worst thing about these card is this connector here. It's kind of a nonstandard thing, you can't buy them" The business model of Apple in a nutshell.

[@vicenary]

The problem with the RetroTink isn't so much with the RetroTink as with the retro computers playing fast and loose with the video standards - early Commodore machines (VIC-20 in particular) take many liberties with the timing and voltages of the signal, so I wouldn't be surprised if the TED is also a bit iffy as far as video is concerned.

[@MagerValp]

But dealing with retro computers that play fast and loose with the video standards is literally the point of the RetroTink.

[@brianv2871]

Yup, most of us bought a retrotink because we had bought the cheaper chinese video converters that didn't work well with our various old systems. I do wish the retrotink was a bit more stable and professionally designed and didn't feel so much like you're buying a modified project board. I had to replace my first retrotink because it didn't come with a case and the usb connection came loose from being pulled on too often. They work well as a single use device but not durable enough to be swapped around. It does look like the newer ones at least come with a case now. :)

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

My older RetroTink actually seemed to work much better -- the RetroTink 5x Pro or whatever I'm using now is the one that so extremely fussy. It surely targets game consoles where it surely works fine--- but with computers, it's constantly acting up so badly. I just need to go back to my previous one so I can stop complaining. The older one is much less flexible (it has no GUI) but it just seems to work. :-)

[@TheJonBrawn]

@@MagerValpnot at all - the retrotink is designed to work with a specific set of old gaming systems, so is a collection of point solutions in one box, and in fact if you ask about using it with a C64 or whatever they’ll tell you that is not the intended use.

[@rachelaudrey6241]

@@brianv2871 I don't know what device you're talking about, because the Retrotink 5x always came with a case, and is based around profiles, not single use plug and play.

[@RGSneaker]

I'm guessing it's a cnc board - motion server - 2 axis (or for a printer/plotter)

[@brianlhughes]

I thought it would be kind of fun to make a PC emulator for a honeywell gcos mainframe, I programmed in assembly & cobol on one back in the 80s.

[@uni-byte]

You're not likely to see this, but there are two kinds of 65C05. The older one from Rockwell should be 100% pin compatible with the 6502 A/B/C and will replace it without issue as long as the software is not taking advantage of some of the undocumented stuff (bugs) in the original CPU. The modern W65C02 can be made pin compatible fairly easily, the only issue might be voltage levels as it has specifications not in line with standard TTL. However, I have never had a case where it did not work. There a some real advantages to using a CMOS CPU and not the least is the very low power consumption allowing your system to run cooler.

[@danielmantione]

The problem is not the pinout, but the undocumented opcodes. Games and demos heaviliy use the undocumented opcodes, therefore you don't want a 65C02 inside a C16 or C64, even though technically it can be made to work (might even work, but I didn't try). In other situations, use of undocumented opcodes might be rare and then it is quite simple to replace an NMOS 6502 by a CMOS 6502.

[@uni-byte]

@@danielmantione In that case the 65C02 is a no go for sure.

[@porklaser]

Twist method is the best 😈 I've heard, though, that apple PCBs generally high quality and the method works well on them. Sega game consoles, for example, are much less so..

[@slaapliedje]

I think the IIGS tops out at 14mb of addressable memory, much like the Atari Falcon.

[@weepingscorpion8739]

I'm not the biggest Apple fan but I would LOVE to get my hands on an Apple IIe card and an LC or Color Classic to put it in. Would be a perfect compact way to enjoy Apple II and Mac stuff. Oh, and the Mega II chip in the IIgs is called the GEMINI on the IIe card. :) "French Oric Armos"? I think he meant the Oric Atmos but it's not French, it's a British micro and it does use a 6502 CPU.

[@FrostekFerenczy]

> 50,000 in France Perhaps he means that's where this particular model came from? They did sell highly in France back then.

[@weepingscorpion8739]

@@FrostekFerenczy It's very possible it was bought in France because as you say it sold well there. But it's still a British micro. :)

[@Fifury161]

I'll not tell you that I threw out a large chunk of my LC collection recently as I needed the space (They all had Ethertalk cards installed along with DAVE to enable hard drive sharing - custom cable looms to allow 7GB per machine. I should have documented it all)

[@twocvbloke]

Sometimes luck is on your side when it comes to instlaling chips in the wrong sockets or upside down, cos they seem to, for the most part, survive such mishaps, with the exception of some ROM chips that just go pop the moment power is applied to the wrong pins... :P

[@simonpaul9795]

I don’t like the new Patreon app. But I still love your videos

[@dank1837]

Joes Computer Museum has the apple iie card adapter at a reasonable price.

[@evensgrey]

There should be at least two current manufacturers of 6502's: Western Design Center (I understand they were founded by some people from MOSTek/Commodore Semiconductor), and NTE Electronics, which does a sideline in a bunch of 8-bit parts for the hobby and obsolete repair markets (6502/6800/8080 and selection of their support chips).

[@danielmantione]

The 65C02 is not a good replacement becauseit does not support undocumented upcodes. I recommend buying NMOS 6502 from IC traders, there is more supply than there are Commodore TED computers to be repaired, so availability will never be a problem.

[@Peter_S_]

That Apple //e card is worth hundreds on the eBay market these days.

[@Toonrick12]

Eh, Ebay is overinflated. The real value is $200 or so.

[@trusconi81]

So the processes on the motion server board. Looks a lot a Motorola 68040 to me

[@IDPhotoMan]

You can probably count on one hand how many videos you've made where that Retrotink works correctly lol.

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

Seriously -- guess what, it screwed up again in the one I was recording last night. I had to power cycle it as it "appeared" the computer had no video output.

[@docnele]

I do remember one thing for Atari 6502C "Sally" and that it runs on 2Mhz. Question is, can all 6502 run on 2MHz (like ones from VIC20), or do they have speed class like Z80's?

[@danielmantione]

There are 1MHz and 2MHz versions of the 6502, but I believe they are not different chips, because in the data sheets many timings are equal. What has changed are the worst-case timings. Likely, the 2MHz versions are a portion of the production that has been certified for 2MHz operation. Depending on how this certification was done (whether 1MHz were confirmed unsuitable or just not tested at all), 1MHz parts may work or not work. In my experience, 1MHz chips run fine on 2MHz, I see no instabiltities or excessive heat production for the tests that I have done.

[@docnele]

@@danielmantione So, basically, most will run at 2MHz. That's fair. I just remembered that my best friend, who is no longer with us, and I used various arguments for which is better, his Atari 800XL or my C64. His was usually CPU speed and my trump card was intro music from Yie Ar Kung-Fu :)

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

i put my sid is backswords and it survived but it was flaky all ready so i need to get a replacement some day..

[@dougnemeth5249]

Extra card looks like an early SCSI’s card?

[@MarvinWestmaas]

38seconds ago, 600 views... must have premiered for members earlier lol

[@Shadow-RAM]

Yup I'm viewer 603 😮

[@brianv2871]

Yup, all his videos get released eary for patreon members. Good for them to get early access and good for Adrian to catch any blatant issues before it gets released to the public (whether he'll fix them or not, who knows.. haha)

[@terryraymond7984]

funny question: you put that chip on the Aluminum deal would that zap a MOS chip?

[@camelid]

Obviously who is “boss” matters to *them* :)

[@williefleete]

I can smell this video. Leaking caps suck, I work at a place that gets a lot of 1KZ engine ECU’s and the juice corrodes open traces on them.

[@dottedrhino]

Your channel rocks!

[@nasko8605]

54:25 I'm glad to see CM630 in your clips - this is the proud of my country in that old times (1980s) Тhe clone of 6502 - BULGARIAN version ;) The "original" chip for the PRAVETZ 8 PC , based on Apple 2 :) CM siers chips are clones of corse, but very reliable, must say.

[@danielmantione]

Do you know if we should read it as Latin or Cyrillic (it can be both)? Would SM630R when backtransliterated to Latin.

[@nickwallette6201]

In general, I wouldn't replace an electrolytic cap with a ceramic. They have very different characteristics -- which might not matter at all. But that's the thing -- you don't know, unless you reverse-engineer the schematics and find out what it's doing. Probably bulk capacitance on the V+ rail, given the size, which isn't going to be critical. But, remember that 1) the capacitance of a ceramic cap varies with voltage, so 22u might not be 22u at 12V, etc., and 2) ceramic caps have much, much lower ESR, which might be fine, might be great, and might send a local regulator into oscillation if it's expecting some impedance in the feedback loop. Just as a rule of thumb, replace like with like, because unless you're willing to discover why the engineer selected the components they did, you're making some blind assumptions that may not always pan out.

[@danielmantione]

It is very easy to see that these capacitors are between VCC and GND and therefore, ceramic capacitors are a better choice than electrolytic ones.

[@nickwallette6201]

@@danielmantione I wouldn't say they're better, for the reasons above. They're probably not reaching their full capacitance at load voltage, and whether there is any need for higher impedance (for stability, etc.) having a mix of ceramic caps (which it already will, on a per-IC basis) and "slower" electrolytic caps will more effectively damp noise across a broad band of frequencies. They still make electrolytic caps for a reason. :-) They're not THAT much cheaper, and the size and convenience might well have made up for it anyway in board space / assembly cost.

[@danielmantione]

@@nickwallette6201 You misunderstood me, I am not saying that ceramic capacitors are better, I am well aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the various types. What I am saying is that ceramic capacitors are preferred for decoupling. As these clearly were decoupling capacitors...

[@nickwallette6201]

@@danielmantione I understood you, I just disagree. As an example, I've been working on design just the last couple of weeks where the datasheet specifically recommends a combination of local ceramic capacitance in the nF range, a close ceramic or tantalum capacitor in the 1-4.7uF range, and larger bulk capacitance with higher-ESR components. To be sure, it doesn't always matter that much. Or it matters, but there's enough margin that you could get away with removing the bulk capacitance entirely and it would still "work." Which is this? I don't know. More than likely it'll be "fine." But, as I said, the best thing you can do is replace like-for-like, because then there's no guesswork, there's no gamble. If it wasn't teetering on the edge of stability before, it'll be absolutely fine with whatever minor difference there is between parts. But if you go changing components for wildly different ones, all bets are off, and you're counting on the design to be stable under very different conditions. (And it probably is.)

[@danielmantione]

@@nickwallette6201 Sounds like ripple/noise filtering, not simple decoupling. The hardware is easy to understand, back then the component situation was different. Using your brain never is a bad thing. In the 80s you did use electrolytic for a 10us decoupling capacitor, nowadays you have the luxurty that you can use ceramic in this capacity.

[@klocugh12]

Super Mega Mail Call

[@ayan.debnath]

When Big KZbinrs mess something huge, nothing happens..... Example - here, and also Linus videos....

[@RichardFraser-y9t]

Hello from the cheep seats

[@bryan-nz]

🐦

[@Stefan_Payne]

Adrian, have you updated the RT5X to the new 3.71 Firmware? That should work a bit better.

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

I'll need to check it out -- I'm still on 3.0. The device has been so thoroughly displeasing to use -- at least with 3.0 firmware. It's honestly unfit for purpose IMHO. (As I've owned three generations of RetroTink this is by far the most finicky and annoying .... even if it's the most "capable.") I'll try the new firmware but at this point I cannot recommend anyone get one, at least if they pair it to retro computers. (I can't speak to how it works with game consoles.)

[@Stefan_Payne]

@@adriansdigitalbasement2 You might be surprised at the Updates. One of the things that was added was S-Video via Cinch (IIRC Red and Blue) in one of the latest updates, so you can connect an S-Video style Commodore Cable directly to the TINK without adaptors. Some Issues with other devices were found and fixed as well. I really hope that Firmware 3.71 does what you want the device to do and fixes most of the issues you experienced.

[@jussikuusela7345]

I think I recently watched a video of a pretty Italian girl testing a C16 or something like that with a breadboard rigged C64 processor. She didn't modify the kernels but probably didn't expect it to fully work, just check that the rest of the machine is workable and it isn't pointless to hunt down a CPU. Or maybe I was daydreaming.

[@danielmantione]

If you use a 6510 without replacing the KERNAL, the computer is able to get to the start screen, but floppy disk and tape will not work. They will start working as soon as you install the custom KERNAL. Games will fail, because fastloaders are a necessity with Commodore's slow-by-default floppy drives, so games have to talk to the floppy directly, bypassing the KERNAL. A 6502 replacement implements the CPU port in a compatible way and is compatible with the standard KERNAL and all games and demos.

[@e1gr3co]

Is the 7501 is better than 8501 for TED computers?

[@danielmantione]

No, it's even less reliable.

[@terryraymond7984]

Oh is the V stand for "Version"

[@terryraymond7984]

That Gal V8 what does the *V8* stand for, please explain!

[@danielmantione]

16 indicates the amount of inputs into the AND array, V indicates that the device has the simple, complex and registered modes and 8 is the number of macrocells.

[@terryraymond7984]

Hey does Daniel make the 8500 for the C64C

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

You can use a 6510 in place of those -- and I think there are some boards to allow you to use a 6502 in place of them. Oh yeah here: monotech.fwscart.com/product/mos-cpu-replacer-(6510-8501)

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

MOS is actually CMOS architecture and can handle 5-12V

[@Tomasu82]

I think the correct oppinion about your smd cap removal method is that twisting the cap off has a higher risk of damaging the pads than doing it properly, but if youre wiling to take the risk and have good luck its usually fine. I still squirm when seeing it done though. Lol.

[@pancreasenthusiast]

Is there a single ADB video where Adrian doesn't say "IT FREAKING WORKS!!!" at least once?

[@fu1r4]

Do you know the value of the caps now when you throw them in the trash can?

[@adriansdigitalbasement2]

Nah, so common stuff like this, it's easy to look up a photo of the board if you hadn't noted the value first.