How Atari 8-Bit Computers Work!

[@The8BitGuy]

Sorry, the first version had only been rendered to 720p for some reason, so I had to re-upload it in 1080p.

[@MatthewCenance]

It's okay. Mistakes happen.

[@IamNotaRealAmerican]

So I didn't time travel :(

[@zahaanhasham4426]

Still an amazing video either way!

[@marioaddict3]

I knew I saw an upload, I was wondering where it went! Thanks! :)

[@jeremyfiggins4176]

I was 15 minutes in when playback stopped. Thanks for explaining what happened.

[@ProfMonkeys]

Joe Decuir is my father. It is awesome hearing his name in a shout out on a channel like this. I linked him to the video and hopefully he will come by and comment himself. He would almost certainly love to talk to you at great length on the topic.

[@steveafulton]

Joe Decuir is a hero and a legend.

[@DocMacLovin]

Finally, this channel's content is back at its roots. So good!

[@alexandermirdzveli3200]

Oh yes, good old The 8-Bit Guy vibes all the way!

[@exidy-yt]

Haha, I felt the exact same way! THIS is the kind of content that brought me to this channel in the first place.

[@fr_schmidlin]

Someone had to say it. Thanks!

[@W140M]

Excellent. Next video on 8-Bit Keys?

[@arntfu]

Totally agree

[@corkbulb2895]

I am glad you finally made a video covering the early Atari computers! The Atari home computers back in the late 1970's and early 1980's were an important option available on the market and was extremely popular. You have mostly covered Commodore computers and some Apple. Now Atari gets some love from you!

[@Rodrigo-l9p]

I'm 45 and my first computer here in Chile was a Atari 65XE when I was a child. I loved that machine.

[@jhoughjr1]

They were pretty powerdul easy to use and well documented

[@Wadethewallaby2001]

I'm 23 my First computer was the "BIG" Alienware.

[@microbuilder]

44 here, our first computer was either a i386 or i486...cant quite remember, but my neighbor had an Atari, my other neighbor had a Commodore, and our schools were using Apple IIe's. Good times!!

[@From_Heller]

I'm 44 and my first computer in Chile was an Atari 800XL 🤘

[@jhoughjr1]

@ im the same age. Nothing will repeat the excitement of discovering a new computer to dive into. It was alwats something id ask mew friends anywhere i went. Do u have video games or computers.

[@haraldaichinger9335]

Great video! Here's an interesting fun fact: Jay Miner developed the ANTIC and GTIA chips for the Atari 2600 and 8-bit Atari computers. These custom chips were groundbreaking for their time, providing advanced graphics and video capabilities that set Atari's systems apart from competitors. ANTIC (the Atari New Instruction Controller) handled graphics processing, enabling sophisticated graphics and smooth animation with limited resources. GTIA (Graphics Television Interface Adapter) improved color handling and allowed for more detailed sprites and graphics. Later, Jay Miner founded Hi-Torro, which was renamed into Amiga Inc. The custom chip technology he pioneered for Atari laid the groundwork for the Amiga’s revolutionary architecture. Amiga featured a similar approach with its custom chipset-originally called OCS (Original Chip Set)-which included advanced graphics, sound, and multitasking capabilities, far ahead of its time. When Commodore acquired Amiga, they built on this legacy. So, in a way, the 8-bit Atari computers, with their custom chip technology, can be seen as the predecessors of the first Amiga.

[@R0e0endeR]

8Bit Atari was big in Poland in the late 80's and early 90's, first polish gamedev industry started on it, most new games you presented are also from Poland, so current nostalgia for "small" Atari is very high here. I myself made this year a first new 3d combat flight simulator for it called F-16 Falcon Strike, free for download, there are some vids of it on YT

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

There was a strong Polish demoscene going until around 2005 on this platform. I don't know if it's up anymore but a once extremely popular video with a title like "The best 8-bit song ever" was "Zizibum" by Łukasz Sychowicz (X-Ray).

[@owuzet]

True story. Atari was big in Poland in late 80s and early 90s.

[@Mi_Buch]

I was owning 800XL, 65XE and 1040STE - nowadays, if you want to buy those - prices are sick on allegro (ebay) or local marketplaces - i do not mind prices of rare XL series peripherals - although disk drives are just for nostalgia - CA or LDW or some polish devices TOMS were much better. As "Atarowiec" (Atari fan) i always fought that Atari was equally or more popular than C64 - but now it seems it is unobtanium - 65XE is at least twice the price of C64 (not breadbox) - both if packaged in orginal styro box and cardboard - price is going ballistic - I wonder if trend will continue - as gen Z mostly don't care - it just nostalgia of 40-50's yo guys

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@dycedargselderbrother5353 Polish creators and programmers are the backbone of the platform's homebrew scene, from games, music, demos to hardware upgrades. Atari 8bit retro community is big in Poland right now . They manage to keep the system in the top 3 positions of most vibrant communities just behind Speccy and C64.

[@mina86]

You needed a lot of coal to run it though.

[@creatorgenerator1998]

Great episode. I upgraded my Atari 400 to 64k RAM, added a regular keyboard, inserted a real time clock cartridge, attached a disk drive & ran a basic program to control my furnace. If the power failed it would reboot back to normal running. I also built a circuit to read two thermostats (high/low) and adjust the furnace activity based on time & dates. I could read a table a of weekly program & dates when to go into vacation mode etc. It ran for years. I sold the house in '91.

[@EricMayers]

@@creatorgenerator1998 you sold the house with the Atari based thermostat?

[@lennyvalentin6485]

Home computers back in the early 1980s always did struggle trying to find a genuine purpose and a need that they could fulfil for everyday people (which on top of their high cost is why they didn't reach widespread popularity) - common lame suggestions was you could do a home budget with the computer, shopping lists, reminders etc. There were (primitive!) music and drawing software packages, etc. Something like what you're describing would have boggled the mind of most people back then. Very advanced and cool stuff, and feels much like an early precursor to the "internet of things" we have today. Except your system couldn't be hacked by cyber-criminals and recruited into a botnet designed to take down the internet of course... :D

[@kd7alt]

I started with an Atari 400 with an aftermarket keyboard kit. I had that until the 800xl was introduced. Bought the 800xl, modem, Gemini 10X printer, and 2 Indus GT disk drives. Had lots of fun with it. I do miss Atari.

[@EmblemParade]

Seeing you hold the option key while powering on the 800XL brought tears to my eyes! I upgraded to it from a VIC-20 and was blown away. It felt like moving from the Iron Age to the Singularity. It turns me into an Atari fan for years. My next one was the XE, and then the ST. Thank you, Atari, for so many good and thoughtful times.

[@kenknight5983]

What happened next? These computers went to Poland! 1989's Robbo basically kick-started Poland's game industry, and a bunch of really great games came out for the platform in the nineties. A side-effect of this is that a lot of these games were then ported to the c64, and Polish developers then developed new c64 games from 1993-96

[@ITGuyinaction]

❤❤❤ Oh yeah! Great Polish games for Atari computer!

[@romerogoon]

Mission: Shark (or Misja in Europe) by Janusz Pelc was perhaps the best game on the system in my entirely subjective opinion. The graphics were great, the soundtrack was a banger, the animations were smooth, and the game was well balanced. Fred was another fantastic game of his. Zeppelin Games in the UK seen his talent and brought his talents to the island. I still remember typing JPELC on the Mission: Shark title screen activated the cheat :)

[@thedude15-sm2zu]

I think they were the first post-Communist country to officially open the gaming market to Westerners.

[@masterkamen371]

@thedude15-sm2zu In Yugoslavia you could briefly order computers from West Germany in the early 80s, then they imposed import restrictions on memory sizes and what not. So the workaround was to simply import computers piece by piece. Seeing how ridiculous the laws were, the government yielded quickly and the market got flooded with C64s and ZX Spectrums so much that by maybe 1987 everyone who wanted one, had one. Though Yugoslavia was quite specific in that trade with the west or the east was never really banned, the issues were mostly about shortages and price.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

These computers are still in Poland, Czech republic, Germany, Slovakia, Hungary.....where creators, coders and electronic wizards constantly feed hardware upgrades and new titles in their software library.

[@FormerFilmGuy]

Wow, great video! I wrote Miner 2049er for the Atari 400/800 but I must have abandoned that world before all those later machines came out because I don't remember anything past the 1200.

[@AndyS-A]

Miner 2049er was the first video game I ever bought! Played it to death.

[@TheNudeBrewer]

I played so much Miner 2049er on the Colecovision. lol One of the few games that actually made practical use of the otherwise totally awkward number pad that was built into the Colecovision controller. :)

[@benjammin1001]

I loved that game!!

[@pasqualz]

This is what the Internet is still good for! I love that people who contributed to other people’s memories can connect and see the impact they made. Kudos to you!

[@eclectictech]

@@FormerFilmGuy that was a really good game! Impressive!

[@horusfalcon]

Atari doesn't get enough love. I'm impressed with Atari BASIC. I wouldn't mind finding something in the ST line. Thanks for uploading this!

[@jhoughjr1]

Yeah ataris basic was maybe the nost advanced i saw oin the day. Idk if QBasic beat it by much

[@ibrachaka8727]

Atari is made from components.

[@horusfalcon]

@@jhoughjr1 I've written enough in QBasic (and QuickBasic) to know that they were pretty close.

[@ITGuyinaction]

💪😁🔥🔥🔥 I fully agree with you. Atari needs much more love! ❤❤❤ I made some... videos showing its possibilities... ❤❤❤

[@horusfalcon]

@ITGuyinaction Thanks. I'll look up your channel.

[@ShawnJefferson-n5u]

Nice to see the Atari 8-bit computers being covered! The 2-color monochrome mode (ANTIC mode 15, or BASIC graphics mode 8) was used pretty extensively, especially for games being ported from the Apple II which also used artifact colors. Another correction, or clarification, the built-in BASIC didn't cause any incompatibilities, but rather the ROM was changed slightly from the 400/800 to the XL line. The ROM vectors were the same, but some naughty game programmers looking to eek out every last cycle would jump directly the the location of routines in the ROM of the older 400/800 OS. Atari made a "Translator" disk for this, which essentially put the 400/800 OS into RAM and allowed these programs to run. We also had great "computer" features as well, including hard drives and a command-line DOS called SpartaDOS that was very powerful. Amazing that these computers were able to hold their own against more capable computers released years later, like the C-64, but ultimately the fractured market (400, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 130XE all with varying capabilities, making most software houses only support the lowest common denominator of the 1979 released 800) really did Atari no favors.

[@werpu12]

Yes basically some Apple II ports used those modes because they basically gave the same (lousy) result as on the Apple II, afair out of the box, all Ultimas used it but also for instance Conan as far as I can remember and other games which I cannot really remember! The fun thing is that when those computers came out, they were far ahead of any arcade system being around at that time, they easily could have made it into arcades between lets say 1979 and 1981 but they never did!

[@mmille10]

I don't remember Graphics mode 8 being used much by commercial software. It was, of course, used for the graphic adventures, but most games used the lower modes, because they had more colors. When I've tried to find documentation on how to use mode 8, for example, for display lists, it's been pretty hard finding much of anything. Usually, the documentation will talk about the text modes, and graphics modes up to 7.

[@MartinHenne]

your documentaries are the best produced and most interesting retro videos on the internet. Thank you!

[@kelviskelvis7140]

I second that statement.

[@SuperHammaren]

@@kelviskelvis7140 Third one right here!!

[@BikeArea]

I second the second statement. ​@@kelviskelvis7140

[@BikeArea]

I second the second statement. ​@@kelviskelvis7140

[@BikeArea]

I second that second statement a second time.

[@tancar2004]

I had the XEGS when I was about 13 years old. Star Raiders was awesome! I eventually got the XF551 disk drive and that got me started on computer games particularly Microprose and Origin games. It was my stepping stone into getting an IBM PC when I was 18.

[@jhoughjr1]

U ever play bad blood by origin?

[@luisremigiotorresacevedo4620]

Congratulations 8-Bit Guy, you're back to Basic.

[@MWegal]

Finally back to the roots!!! Glad you're making this kind of content again.💪👍

[@lordwiadro83]

This and restoration videos. I can watch them all day!

[@wackyworldofwindios3476]

Thank you for taking the time to cover the ATARI 8-bit line of computer's . I had several models of the 8-bit line. They were a great computer and game console as well. GO ATARI!

[@kingtom]

Love the 600XL. When you pair it with an aftermarket slimline ram expander and FujiNet, it makes for a hell of an 80s microcomputer experience with a small footprint and a bunch of modern features.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Great video for the A8 family. Some small details that weren't quite right or were left out. -Atari 8bit sprites are similar to Amiga's sprites (both their height match the full vertical size of the screen). -The 5pin video connector provides S-video output (not just composite). -Most 400/800 systems came with the GTIA chip. In fact the GTIA was in production during the release of the system but Atari wanted their computers on the shelves before Christmas.

[@jhoughjr1]

From what i recal reading in old magazines there were a significant amount out there without it at some point.

[@RobinDale50]

Yes, the CTIA chip came first, then was revised into the GTIA chip across the entire line somewhere around 12-18 months after the first machines came out, and for all subsequent machines.

[@nickpalance3622]

Early on I can see the number of CTIA machines being “significant” given the sales numbers. But that quickly changed and by the way the 800XL sold and the number of software titles that wanted 64KB (sorry 800) that put the CTIA into the insignificant realm by 83-84. In fact if your software required 64KB then that meant an XL (800XL or expanded 600XL).

[@glynnetolar4423]

SVideo? From memory that standard didn't come out till SVHS came out. I could be wrong. But then again they may have done it before the spec so it may need some adapting to make work anyway. Interesting though.

[@sunspot42]

@@glynnetolar4423 It wasn't called S-Video back then, but it was separate chroma/luma video and compatible with the later S-Video standard if you could find or hack a cable to convert from Atari's 5-pin DIN to S-Video's 4-pin min-DIN connector. There were very few monitors that supported it at the time - Tekinka made one briefly in the mid-'80s. Ironically, the most common monitor that had it came from Commodore, since the 64 also output separate chroma and luma. I wonder where they got that idea from? (Also ironically, the Atari 1200XL did away with the separate chroma and luma outputs and generally featured inferior composite video quality to the 800, right at the time the C64 came out. Dumb move. The cheaper 800XL restored the two separate lines and improved video quality overall.)

[@JimmerofOz]

Interesting fact, some believe the Commodore Amiga's ancestor was the Commodore 64, it was infact the Atari 400/800, the key Amiga chip designers most notibly Jay Miner was the guy who designed the graphics chips for the Atari 400 and 800 was also the guy who led the design on the graphics chips on the Amiga, so features like changing graphics mode mid screen was a feature the Amiga had, you could have a HAM screen mode sitting behind a Medium res Workbench, stuff that gave the Amiga a productivity edge.

[@werpu12]

Yes there is a clear ancestrial line between the 2600/Atari 8 bit/Amiga each basically building upon another with Jay Miner behing the key graphics and sound person behind the three systems (you might add the Lynx as fourth system on top which basically was an amiga in handheld format)

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

You can change video modes mid screen on C64 and plus4

[@exidy-yt]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt really? A nitpick so minor and barely related to the topic is all you could come up with? Why even bother?

[@saganandroid4175]

You're overlooking that Jay Miner learned a lot from looking at the C64. The more you know about the Amiga the more you realize the tall sprites and the copperlist (sort of) were the only things that really smelled like Atari. And the C64 could change gfx modes mid screen. The Atari 800 was easier in that regard.

[@dnwheeler]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt The Atari let you set up a "display list" defining where to switch modes, then the Antic chip would handle all the switching for you without the need for interrupt routines or scanline counting. The Antic was essentially a simple co-processor would drive the CTIA/GTIA chip directly based on its "display list program". This is unlike the Atari 2600, where the software running on the CPU had to update all the TIA registers in real-time as the screen was being drawn (and consuming a lot of CPU time).

[@MaggieKeizai]

I was 100% all in on the 800 as a kid. We had the apple II at school, and friends had the Commodore 64 at home, but in the 80s, the OG Atari 800 was the one. Star raiders, dude. Star raiders. In 1990 we got an Amiga.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

Star Raiders wasnt bad, but the Mercenary was the pinnacle of 8bit gaming leaving Star Raiders in dust.

[@BertrandLeRoy]

One very important feature that is not mentioned in the video is hardware smooth scrolling. Because the Antic was able to change the base address for the video data on each scan line, and because it had hardware registers for pixel-precise scrolling even on character modes, Ataris were capable of buttery smooth vertical and horizontal scrolling. Also a minor comment that the inverse key on XL and XE models is not a graphical mode choice key, it’s just the Atari/Fuji key with a different glyph.

[@sunspot42]

And that smooth scrolling wasn't just useful for games. The AtariWriter word processor used it to do a WYSIWYG preview of printed documents. While the screen wasn't high enough resolution to display all of a printed page at once, the program allowed you to smoothly scroll around a preview of the printed pages to see how'd they look. Pretty amazing for an 8-bit computer designed in 1978.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

How does the sequencer work? I imagine without smooth scrolling you could try and reload a shift register between two pixels? Surely this leads to artifacts, but a data flip flop clears this up. Now for smooth scrolling, do you change the memory access? Does it have 7 MHz granularity? Or have two shift registers and more leeway in loading?

[@eekee6034]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt The ANTIC reads a _display list_ which tells it the mode and start address of each line. The lines don't need to follow each other in RAM. To scroll, you just update the display list.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

@ C64 devs just updated the characters, while spectrum devs have to copy the bit patterns. I kinda like how TI and CBM try to hide the asymmetry between X and Y. Inflexible height infected all Japanese hardware. I guess that tilemaps were just the best way to compress artwork in a way that it could be read directly from cartridge. Now we have UV maps into a texture Atlas. How many games do actually share patterns between sprites and background? And why not let the devs decide? Looking at the whole VIC or GTIA, wider sprite patterns would not cost much. So have a width property to only load some bytes to fit all loads into the side borders! So generally pixel precise sprite extent would be the correct way. Like, superfluous bits (byte alignment, or word on Amiga) would lead to multicolor pixels centred on the sprite.

[@GregsGameRoom]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Been waiting for this for about 10 years!

[@ericbuxton]

The GTIA was introduced on later Atari 800 computers as well. Mine, purchased in 1982 has it. Programming books mentioned the difference. I remember reading about the difference and eagerly going home to see if my computer had the additional graphics modes and was happy to see that it did.

[@williamhoodtn]

Thanks to Jay Miner (i.e., Father of the Amiga graphics chip) for developing those great video modes/sprites for these early Atari 8-bit computers. Great video sir!

[@bjbell52]

Atari paid for Jay's work on the Amiga. When Jack bought Atari he wasn't interested in the Amiga and Commodore ended up buying the Amiga. Just one of the many dumb moves by Jack.

[@coyote_den]

The Agnus/Denise/Paula chips were just bigger, faster, 16-bit versions of ANTIC/GTIA/POKEY. They have lot more features, of course, but the general architecture is the same including display lists (Amiga's Copper unit)

[@fnunez]

@@bjbell52 Tramiel's main business strategy was to compete on low price and high volume. He realized that the Amiga was way ahead of its time (that's why he tried to block Commodore from buying the design), but had no interest in selling high end machines. The Atari ST was designed to be the Volkswagen to Amiga's Porsche, and in that sense it did very well indeed.

[@bjbell52]

@@fnunez My Atari ST got me through 3 years of college.

[@bitcortex1991]

Finally, the 8-Bit Guy video I've been waiting for! The Atari 800 is my favorite computer model of all time. I couldn't afford one as a teenager, so I got a 400, which could in fact be upgraded to 48K via an official kit that required professional installation. By the time I sold my 400, it had 48K and a full-stroke keyboard. I learned more on that machine than any other. I wish I still had it. I'm glad you mentioned Atari's considerable lead during the 400/800 production run. Oddly, I don't think they planned it that way. They were working on the 5200, but then home computing took off, so they delayed the 5200 and released the 400/800 instead. By designing a new game machine, they raised the bar for computers. There's just so much to say about the Atari 8-bitters. They weren't as successful as the Apple or Commodore machines, but they still had thousands of software titles available in many languages and were a joy to learn and play on. I just can't believe how badly Atari mishandled their own technology. The XEGS, seriously? In 1987?

[@gregholloway2656]

I had a 400 as a kid, that we upgraded the ram on to 48k and the proper keyboard. Still have it, with the 1050 disk drive. Did a ton of programming on that thing, including a C compiler. Also got into BBS using a 300 baud modem. Good memories.

[@hwertz10]

I had no idea you could replace the keyboard on the 400! We had a 400, and later on (I think after the local Atari club shifted to emphasis on the Atari ST and my dad could get some hardware inxpensively...) an 800XL and a 130XE. Fine machines!

[@chrisfreemesser]

80s Atari 8-big nerd here...two small corrections to your excellent video. First, the switch from CTIA to GTIA happened with the 800....early 800s had CTIA, the rest had GTIA. Also, the 1050 disk drive wasn't dual-density, it was "enhanced" density, writing something like 115K per disk side (as opposed to the 88K of the 810). There were 3rd party floppy drives from companies like Rana and Indus that were true double-density, and you could upgrade a 1050 to double density with 3rd party products. I miss those days....the Atari 8-bit was an exceptionally capable machine...

[@Rybagz]

1050 can do 26 sectors/track where 810 is limited to 18 only. So slightly under a 50% improvement although generally the last 16 sectors aren't used due to 10-bit sector links used in Dos.

[@danaeckel5523]

I was going to comment on that as well. Also I think later Atari 400's came with 16k of ram.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@danaeckel5523 thats how I remember it, it was planed with 8KB but since the chip prices went down the final version had 16KB already, same as 800 got 48KB from earlier planned 16KB.

[@steveyork4173]

It was also possible to upgrade the early 800's (and maybe 400's) to the GTIA. I remember doing mine.

[@soloflo]

It’s crazy how I still remember the model numbers for the peripherals after so many decades. 810. 410. 835. Haha you guys have a 835? Or even a 830? With the “AC” (we will let the younger guys figure out what AC means😂). I actually had a 1030. 300 baud baby!!

[@nickbensema3045]

miraculously my family acquired a 130XE on clearance somewhere in 1986. while I didn't find many programs use the extra ram directly, DOS 2.5 came with a RAMdisk that came in handy; I could download files without waiting for it to write to disk. lots of BBS sysops also found it useful for similar reasons.

[@ballyastrocade5672]

The low capacity of the Atari 810 disk drive was because it was still based on the Western Digital WD1771 controller chip, which was a single-density design that used FM encoding -- the same chip, coincidentally enough, that was used on the TRS-80 Model I, which had a capacity of about 85K per side. Commodore and Apple used a different encoding scheme called GCR (Group Coded Recording) that increased the bit density, and then Commodore went one step further by having a variable bit rate that could pack more data on the outer tracks than on the inner ones. Unfortunately for Atari, by the time the 810 came out, everyone else was either using GCR, or they were using the newer FD1791 chip that used MFM (Modified Frequency Modulation) encoding that effectively doubled the amount of data that could be recorded on a track, and Atari didn't update the design to keep up.

[@Mrshoujo]

They updated with the 1050 & then 3rd party companies made upgrades like ICD's US Doubler which enabled high speed 180K from the 1050. Even the XF551 could be upgraded with a 3.5 inch mech & do 720k usable by SpartaDOS.

[@ballyastrocade5672]

@@Mrshoujo Sorry, what I meant was, Atari didn't update the 810's design during its development, to keep up with where the rest of their competitors were in 1980 when the 810 was released. By 1980, the TRS-80 Model III had already come out using the 1791 double-density controller, which gave it storage comparable to the Commodore and Apple machines, so Atari was lagging a bit behind the curve still using the 1771 chip by then.

[@RobinDale50]

@@ballyastrocade5672 True until about 1982/83 when the 1050 drives came out and could do 130k per side, and then 85/86 with the XF551 that had true DD 180k per side, but by then many others had that and DOS's like Sparta Dos were out. I had an Indus GT which was a Cadillac drive with DD and higher speed throughput.

[@nickpalance3622]

No the Indus GT was the Knight Industries Two Thousand (KITT) 😂 I had one too. Tell me it didn’t look like it belonged in KITT (or KARR!)

[@RobinDale50]

@@nickpalance3622 It was totally KITT, right down to the red LED.

[@patrickworsham6300]

Awesome episode! I've been an 8-bit guy fan for years and a long time Atari 800XL fan as it's the first computer I had as a kid. Thanks for putting this together, as well as all your other great content!

[@WinterInTheForest]

It's always a pleasure to relive the exciting days of early computing/gaming since nothing was yet standardized and it seemed like a whole new world.

[@nickpalance3622]

Yes! Yes! I am so unexcited about computers these days. What lake did Intel name their chips after now? M4, M4 Pro , Max , and Ultra (c’mon “max” should be the definitive top of the line!). Snooze fest. 😴 💤 AMD has something new? Ditto. After Alpha (in the 90s) failed to gain traction I lost hope. Sparc and UltraSparc… hard to give a hoot. What I’ve worked with for the past decade has moved from Power/PowerPC and AIX or some sorta Sparc and Solaris to x86-64 and Linux. Making sure those transitions go smoothly is the name of the game but it’s a different vibe than the exciting 80s.

[@lolpl0000]

@@nickpalance3622I agree with you and disagree at the same time. There’s incredible things happening in the tech space and VR tech is something I get amazed by every single time I put on my VR headset. Every time, without fail. I think you’re just old bud.

[@nickpalance3622]

@ I agree. I’m old. AARP is starting to pester me to join. I’m old enough to remember the Nintendo Virtual Boy. Someone I knew had one. I remember early clunky 3D graphics. I lived through 4096 colors being a lot. It is amazing that now we have HDR and instant rendering of 3D textures and photo realism. Just seems like what we have now is more and better of what we had before. I’m hesitant to call anything a game changer. Don’t want to be “been there, done that” but … Here’s the odd thing. I like the less realistic olde skool better. I want to escape reality. Trying to be realistic is the opposite of what I want! 🤣 I guess I’m old enough to have had enough reality. That reminds me, I need to hook up my 5200 and Colecovision and play some great games. None of this NES. Mario Bros. No “Super”. Un-super thank you very much! 🤣

[@eekee6034]

It was a whole new world. :D You know, looking back, I think could call these Ataris the first gaming PCs. Ridiculously powerful graphics for 1979 or even the next 3 years, and a ridiculously powerful OS for an 8-bit. It was too powerful, it left a little bit too little space for BASIC.

[@przemekkobel4874]

I'm glad there are so many people pointing at small inaccuracies in this video. Obviously, lots of fans with lots of knowledge. But I'm even more happy that the author actually made it, not only bringing back good memories, but also creating another "8-bit event" in a series that keeps hitting me for some time now. Seems like The Universe keeps sending me some hints...

[@MatthewKleczewski]

As someone who came up in the Timex Sinclair, Commodore, and Apple II world I never took much attention to Atari so this was much appreciated as always!

[@jhoughjr1]

I had all those as a kid being a sperg son of a hoarder who worked on PCs. The atari was maybe the best overall feel to me. I wasnt impressed with the timex sinclair but messed with it some just out of curiosity. Well i take that back the IIgs was maybe the best feel of what i saw in the 80s.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@jhoughjr1 IIgs is not 8bit computer.

[@jhoughjr1]

@ true but it was around at the same time and was compatible with the old 8bit instruction set

[@jeffthibodeau650]

I LOVE when I hop on KZbin and see a new 8Bit video. Love the content, sir. I wanted to let you know how you re-sparked my interest in electronics several years ago!

[@perinoid]

Good material. Yet, 3 minor corrections: 1. 1050 was NOT a DD drive, it was an Extended (or Medium) Density drive (130KB/side). 2. A PAL version of 600XL had a monitor port by default with Composite output. 3. A GTIA chip replaced CTIA much earlier than at 800XL time - it was introduced during production of 400/800 series.

[@johnnylongfeather3086]

Thanks for sharing this after the video was completed and uploaded.

[@luiszuniga2859]

30:25 Atari made larger cartridges with bank switching for the XEGS. The XE carts

[@fragalot]

it was called "enhanced density" for about 135k.

[@hyzenthlay7151]

Can confirm the PAL 600XL has composite out, and S-Video with a little modding too I think

[@DoomWarriorX]

more things: 4. the 400/800 had alot of game features because the engineers (around Jay Miner and Joseph Decuir) were working on an follow up for the VCS. The new boss of Atari Ray Kassar demanded a competitor for the Apple II - so they redesigned the prototype system to be a full blown computer. 5. There were bank switching games for the Atari XE. But most of them only rereleases of previous disc releases

[@marshallhenderson1906]

Great overview. Two thoughts: the amazing GTIA shipped very quickly and was in most 400's and 800's except for the very early ones. i.e. it wasn't just an XL thing. Also, the 800's monitor port wasn't just composite, it had separate luma/chroma as well, right out of the box so you only need the right cable for the 800 to have super sharp video on a good s-video or chroma/luma separated monitor.

[@IcyTorment]

One of the best things that happened with the XE GS release was that Atari licensed a lot of disk games and re-released them as bankswitched cartridges. For example, I had Hardball!, Ace of Aces and Flight Simulator II on cartridge.

[@jhoughjr1]

I wanted an xe for a while speciffically the 130XE

[@JRthepyroguy]

Yeah!! A new video from the 8-bit guy. Happy holidays to you and your family. God bless.

[@romanval69]

One interesting thing is that the custom video chips for the Atari 8-bit, 2600, and Commodore Amiga were all designed by Jay Miner.

[@fragalot]

RIP Jay Miner

[@jhoughjr1]

I thought there would be a team doing that.

[@jeanlesueur6936]

Yep, and it already has a lot of the advanced hardware feature of the Amiga and similar achitecture. In addition, it provided a premise of what became the USB standard. The link is a guy called Joe Decuir who designed the Atari SIO and then worked on USB. Unfortunately, the Amiga didn't keep the concept of an "universal bus" like SIO or USB and rather used one connector for each device at the standard of the time.

[@kilianhekhuis]

​@@jhoughjr1in those days a single person could design a chip. Times have changed!

[@ITGuyinaction]

❤ One expert changing IT world so much...

[@ngtflyer]

Great content! My first computer was an Atari 800. I got one of the later ones, 48K from the factory and the newer GTIA chip. I still have that machine and an 800XL, which I plan to start using again soon for gaming! I eventually had a 130XE and ran a BBS on it for four years. I loaded all of the menus into RAMdisk which made it one of the quickest Atari boards there was. The platform really was way ahead of its time and I really enjoyed using them.

[@KAPTKipper]

3:53 The 800 also has Chroma/Luma AND Composite on that video port. Beating Commodore to providing S-video compatible video out. Used to sell a lot of Commodore 1702 monitors to Atari users for this feature. A feature that was removed in later Atari XL models. Though it can be added back by some simple soldering.

[@NozomuYume]

Truly a fantastic feature for the time, and it's really strange that Atari never highlighted it.

[@jhoughjr1]

I think i used the 1702 with mine but cant remember. That would be a great combo

[@jhoughjr1]

@@NozomuYumethere were many other features they highlighted. Computers were so new noone knew how best to market them in my estumation

[@Infrared73]

I remember visiting someone as a kid who had a 1200XL. I remember the metallic shiny buttons above the keyboard. I didn't realize how short lived they were and I assume relatively rare as well.

[@JesterEric]

There were discussions between Atari and IBM initiated by Bill Lowe about using the Atari 800 computer as the basis for the future IBM PC. The problem with the plan was the proprietary nature of the Atari system, 6502 processor and the lack of a 80 column mode

[@exidy-yt]

Now THIS is the kind of video that got me hooked on and subscribed to the 8-bit guy so many years ago! Great to see you back in form, Dave! I also want to thank you for featuring Alternate Reality, the greatest CRPG series to be completely forgotten. Everything from the environmental mechanics like hunger, thirst, rain, hot, cold etc being factored to the advanced ray-tracing engine that fueled the 3-d movement was WAY ahead of it's time and while The City was more tech demo sandbox then real rpg, The Dungeon was an absolutely fantastic CRPG with a great storyline, full of alignment based secrets not only directing what guilds you could join but stuff like intelligent artifact weapons that would burn you or even summon demons on you if you were the wrong alignment and tried to use them (alignment based on your actions) okay I need to stop going off, but it's a game that any fan of classic CRPGs should play. The C64 has an excellent port of The Dungeon as well. You can just skip The City.

[@LogicalVue]

Thrilled to see an Atari video! Some minor notes: The 1050 drive did not have double the storage of the 810's 90K. It was some weird thing that Atari called "enhanced density" and could store up to about 128K per disk. Later model 400/800 computers did ship with the GTIA chip, although the XL/XE still had additional graphics modes.

[@fragalot]

it was 1.5x more storage, though maybe the dredded DOS 3.0 days allowed it to have more (DOS 3 was terrible) but when Atari DOS went to 2.5 it allowed 135k disks.

[@anatolbaskak]

also the xe series matching tape drive was the xc11. xc12 wasn't matching a thing

[@SyntheToonz]

The Atari 400/800 with GTIA and the XL/XEs can display the same graphics because they are using the same graphics chips. The difference is support from the OS. There are a few modes that cannot be set up by the Atari 400/800 operating system. But, any program generating its own Antic display list should work fine on all models.

[@RobinDale50]

@@fragalot 133,120 bytes actually. 1040 sectors, each 128 bytes. DOS 2.5 only accessed 1010 sectors though.

[@nickpalance3622]

Ah yes. DOS 2.0S can only see upto sector 999 iirc. If not that then whatever the 810 could do. As an aside, anyone ever get to use DOS 2.0D that came with the 815 drive?

[@paulhanson001]

I started with the Atari VCS, moved on to the Atari 800 and finished with an Atari 520ST. Great explanation of the 8-bit line, brings back happy memories and I learned a few new things as well!

[@pablo_p_art]

Bless you! I always wanted to see video about Atari. Somehow competitor of C64, but not strong enough. Seems like most companies made the same mistake: two or three similar, compatible systems, but one inferior (130XE and 65XE and Commodore 16 and 116 and Plus/4), so developers were targeting inferior machines, as it will be compatible for superior as well (as David explained in video about Commodore 16, 116 and Plus/4). Now waiting for Atari ST!

[@selfdo]

The programmers had to work with the "lowest common denominator" and also go by units sold. That's why games had to be written for the Atari 400 and not necessarily take advantage of the 800's greater capabilities. Also, does anyone realize what $1,000 in 1979 bought THEN? Try $4000 to $5000 TODAY! Ponying up for an 800 with a disk drive, printer, and monitor, and you were looking at $2,500, which could get you a decent used car or a living room full of furniture back then. You had to really make a case or have quite the disposable income to justify that expensive a TOY.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@selfdo used car? You kidding, for 2000 you could get a basic family car brand new in 1979.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Actually the Atari 8bit was stronger in many aspects. Huge color palette, faster architecture, faster 3d and pseudo 3d graphics, PCM sound chip, faster disk drive out of the box, easy and cheap memory upgrade, Svideo output and a ....reset key. The C64, as a more modern system had better color and memory management.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 ...and better sprites (C64)....

[@jrherita]

5:35 - The other reason for 2 slots is the designers (esp Joe Decuir) really wanted expansion slots for the 8bit line. The FCC's requirements (which Apple ignored) made this to expensive, so they snuck in the SIO and the second cartridge slot to "get around" this limitation.

[@BravoCharleses]

@@jrherita Please explain more. What limitation were they getting around and how did the second cartridge slot help do that?

[@MattMcIrvin]

I was an Atari loyalist, and while my first experiences with programming were on my dad's mainframe work account, a lot of my honing of skills happened in Atari BASIC. The Atari 800 was arguably about 90% of the way to being a Commodore 64, and even surpassed it in some ways... but came out three years earlier. I think what kept Atari from really conquering the market was that between the earlier tech they were using and their difficulties with the FCC, they just couldn't bring the MSRP down early enough to get the home consumer market these things were aimed at. They were a bit more expensive than they needed to be. In practice, the reason games used artifact color was usually that they were ports from the Apple II, where, for hires graphics, artifact color was all you got. But since Atari lacked the Apple's weird phase-shift bit for selectively changing the artifact colors, these ports would not be quite as colorful as the originals. It was better to switch to the four-color semi-hi-res mode if you could.

[@jhoughjr1]

The fcc wont let me be me so let me see....

[@GiordanDiodato]

plus losing half a billion dollars in 1984

[@nightbeast8105]

Aye, I remember opening up my cousins old 400 to fix something back in the day and it was practically built like a lead lined tank lol. lots of heavy shielding.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

I think that had it not been for the inevitable (but unforeseeable in 1979) arrival and onslaught of those dirty, grimy, PC compatibles, things might have gone very differently, and been much more interesting. Atari, even with their missteps, may very well have survived to slug it out with Commodore into the early 90's. But by the 90's consumers were dying for some standardization and compatibility, so "someone" would have had to have "won" the PC war eventually. Apple was never in that struggle (and still isn't) because they always had their niche and didn't really have to compete for their seat at the PC table.

[@JH-pe3ro]

@@MattMcIrvin Atari's shortcomings were numerous, but I wouldn't put the hardware first among them. "Star Raiders" did sell a lot of 400/800 systems right out of the gate - the problem was with following through into the early 80's as the market got bigger. During the Warner ownership, Atari corporate was able to finance these computer and console projects, but they also became a conglomerate with warring business divisions and conflicts of interest. What this meant for the computers was that they were late and stingy with development information, because they wanted to sell first-party software. Programmers had to find third party books like "De Re Atari" or "Mapping the Atari" to get the kind of basic information that shipped in the C64 manual. Chris Crawford, who authored "De Re" IIRC, once said that people bought the source of his "Eastern Front" game simply because they wanted to learn how the scrolling map graphics worked. So, on developer mindshare they really ceded the market to everyone else, and everyone knows today the Microsoft manta - Developers, developers, developers, developers. The other part of the story is with how they shepherded the platform going forward, which they did with cost reduction and memory upgrades in the XL series, but not much else: if they had been wholly focused around the computer platform they probably could have tapped Jay Miner's group again and said "we'll pay any price" to refresh the graphics and sound with some new modes when they launched the XL and keep it in that "premium" tier. The Atari that actually was, though, got mired first in trying to make the 5200 work(which really was an expensive architecture for game consoles of the time), and then on countless internal wonder projects like the AMY chip, that got axed after the games crash. The reputation for being behind on graphics relative to the C64 is really down to providing options that were appropriate for a 16k memory budget, but not a 64k one. Likewise, the sound could have easily been given a modest spec bump to have better pitch resolution and an additional oscillator mode, but it never got one. Even the 7800 still used the TIA and POKEY sound chips because the company could not get it together to make *any* real upgrades. Part of what makes the Atari story fascinating is that they could have also given up on the computers and thrown their cards into taking the spot Nintendo had later in the decade, launching a stronger console in the 82-83 time frame, and cutting everything else to survive the crash with a positive balance sheet. The stuff made by Atari Games after the division was split out was good - Peter Packrat, Paperboy, Gauntlet, etc. That group, along with Midway(lots of developer crossover) are the latter-day legacy of Atari as a gaming brand. Atari Corp was spread too thin to be focused on game making, though, even though they kept trying to launch consoles.

[@steffenkieslich4573]

Fantastic video, as always. Thank you! I do feel like you missed the opportunity to go more into the SIO port, which was decades ahead of it's time. It may even be worth it's own video. Keep up the good work and don't forget your roots. I know you are busy with so many different irons in the fire, but I can't be the only one who found and fell in love and stuck with your channel because of the deep dives into retro computing. Thanks again!

[@FamtechVideos]

When the legend was needed most, he came back. Thanks so much David.

[@JMTrains1]

Amazing! Great video, loved it! The Atari 800 was my family’s first experience in computing, and I have so much nostalgia for it and interest! There also does not seem to be as much coverage on the Atari 800 in the community. Please, if you can: more on the Atari 800!!! Thank you for the outstanding video!

[@cbaxter6527]

29:57 Atari cartridges used bank selection in later XE (smooth w/ back support) & XEGS (ridged side grips) grey cartridges that required 64K memory to play games.These were floppy disk ports of pre-existing games years before (eg. Flight Simulator II by Sublogic). The cartridges were 32k, 64k, 128k (16 x 8k). Atari original brown label or grey label cartridge (brown plastic w/ painted aluminum back) were either 8k or 16k (contiguous right $8000-$9FFF & left $A000-$BFFF memory map slots)

[@JesterEric]

They did a few new 64k only cartridge games like Airball and Into the Eagles Nest.

[@cbaxter6527]

@@JesterEric 32 Sku of grey carts + 10 in limbo along with original 8-16k Brown carts & third party (list from AtariAge) Ace of Aces - 64K Airball - 64K Archon - 48K Ballblazer - 48K Barnyard Blaster - 48K Battlezone - 48K Blue Max - 48K Bug Hunt - 48K Choplifter - 64K Crime Buster - 48K Crossbow - 48K Crystal Castles - 64K Dark Chambers - 64K David's Midnight Magic - 64K Desert Falcon - 48K Fight Night - 48K Flight Simulator II - 64K Food Fight - 64K GATO - 48K Hardball - 64K Into the Eagle's Nest - 64K Karateka - 64K Lode Runner - 48K Mario Bros. - 64K One-on-One Basketball - 48K Rescue on Fractalus - 48K Summer Games - 64K Thunderfox - 48K Donkey Kong - 16K (re-release) Eastern Front 1941 - 16K (re-release) Necromancer - 16K Star Raiders II - 16K Bruce Lee - 64K Commando - 64K Deflektor - 48K Jinks - 64K Tower Toppler - 48K Xenophobe - 64K Ikari Warriors Mat Mania Challenge Skyfox Xevious

[@TimElliott42]

Thanks for the Atari love! Saw you in Chicagoland in the fall, it was great to see your panels.

[@_AmperVolt]

Greets from Poland! My first computer was Atari 800XL.

[@tyr8338]

Atari pesant! Amiga was the real man computer ;)

[@fragalot]

@@tyr8338 but Amiga's didn't exist until 1985. So before that you only had 8bit computers.

[@Marcepan455]

mój też

[@jhoughjr1]

@@tyr8338heretic!

[@FindecanorNotGmail]

I've heard that Atari 8-bit were especially popular in Poland. Why was that so?

[@Marcel1984nl]

This video is really great, you did it again. Such a good explanation of everything. Keep up the good work! By the way your other videos are also very good! Merry Christmas, Greetings Marcel

[@LacTheWatcher]

This makes for great casual Sunday viewing

[@gryfandjane]

Excellent episode! I was a big Atari fan back in the day. I owned a 400, and had an external keyboard installed (called the “SideWriter”) so I could bypass the membrane keys, which were, not surprisingly, frustrating. I used the tape drive for all my storage, and in my case, Zaxxon took 10 minutes to load from cassette. Occasionally the game would glitch just as the load finished, so there was 10 minutes of my life down the drain… I spent a lot of time with the Star Raiders cartridge, learned Basic, and created a bunch of tunes with the Music Composer cartridge, which took full advantage of the sound chip. All in all, my time with that little computer was very rewarding. I eventually bought a used Commodore 64 from a guy at work, and sold the 400 to a friend, who might actually still have it. Great times, and you brought back a lot of fond memories.

[@buffalodebill1976]

1. The keyboard of the Atari 800 is considered the best Atari ever had, at least by most Atari users that had the daily-typing experience. Frankly, when I tried it for approx. 2 days in a row (in mid 90's), I felt just like I was using a mid-to-high priced current keyboard. I'd say it was very good, and especially for the times the Atari 800 computer was released, as it was as close to any expensive mechanical keyboard as it could get. 2. The keyboard layout, as you said, was not standardized. When I got my Atari 800XL, I got used to the layout easily, in little to no time, so when I then sat at some of my friends' C64 or ZX Spectrum or basically anything non-Atari, THAT particular layout felt weird. So really, it was just a matter of habbit and (maybe) personal preference. BTW, the four direction keys were something all of my C64 friends envied a bit (as C64 had only two). 3. One thing to mention about the cartridges - whenever you open (or close) the lid, a microswitch turns off (or back on) the whole computer. A smart, simple and cheap, yet super-efficient safety precaution. 4. Those boxed RAM expansion modules were quite costly to produce (btw, they still are a bit rare and somewhat expensive to get), compared to their "bare" counterparts. Also, users reported in increasing numbers, that those casings caused overheating of the modules, so Atari - for this and also for financial reasons - decided to produce it without any cover. You could put a bit of some thin rubber or soft foam-material on the bottom of the lid, so when it was closed, it kept the modules firmly in place. Again, easy, cheap and efficient. 5. The output chips - first there was TIA (in Atari VCS), then CTIA and later GTIA (it appeared already in some later 400/800 machines). C stood for COLOUR and G for GRAPHICS, of course. 6. Talking about graphics modes.. There is a big difference between those accessible via BASIC and those "hidden ones", referred to as ANTIC graphics modes, which were the EXTRA that gave applications who used them the edge. Some clever programming could really get much more out of the Atari computers than was even anticipated by its designers, probably ever. BTW, one of the common "tricks" was to combine two graphics modes (worked to some extent also using BASIC) for some quick "split-screen" graphics and text games. It was super-easy, looked really nice, came very handy so many times and was just a pleasant convenience. 7. Star Raiders is my all time favourite game; before that there wasn't enything even close to display and have player interact with such a freedom of movement in 3D space, with maps and additional functions.. Here, kindly check out the updated version (made by Stefan Dorndorf - the same guy, who wrote the Q-Meg OS back in the day). Also, I'd humbly recommend to check out the unreleased Star Raiders II (by Aric J. Wilmunder), which showcased all the "3D capabilities" of those machines even better (= perfectly, for the time). 8. The Atari 5200 in its release state was an excellent showcase of Atari's mgmt idiocy. Neither VCS nor home computer cartridges fit in physically, rendering a huge, already existing library unusable. Also, the latter didn't work due to different memory maps, rendering "updated VCS games" also inaccessbile. Oh - that idiocy I'm referring to could be put into a "greedy & shortsighted business decisions" category. 9. SIO port was a blast, as you could daisy-chain up to 4 devices (out of the box), but (I think) it was up to 128 in theory (?). BTW the 1010 you have, came out with the XL line of Atari home computers and was very sturdy. As for the disk drive, I'd recommend checking out the 1050, it was superior to the 810 and still remains very popular. Or eventually go for the double sided XF-551, despite some (mostly DOS3.0 related) compatibility issues. Also, Atari computers had tons of expansions available, both official and unofficial ones. I got the CompyShop RAM expansion (+256 kB with a three way switch - 64kb+Atari OS / 320kB+Atari OS / 320kB+Q-Meg OS) and built-in TT-DOS bootable (= loaded into RAM) at the start. Yeah, all those tiny and quite inexpensive little upgrades turned my 800XL into a real beast. The only thing I was not able to get was a Turbo BASIC XL EPROM (to replace the easy to use but slow as f#@k Atari BASIC) - but I got used to loading it from my 1050, not really perceiving those (max.) 10 extra "boot" seconds as a detriment to the 800XL's usability and greatness. LbnL a nice video, especially from a C64 "fanboy" - appreciated 🙂

[@jhoughjr1]

Heres a stupid story. Im sure u know the 400 is built like a tank. Well at maybe 10 i took mime apart and was prentending it was a helmet looking through the cartidge port. Told my friend "hit me" not thinking about that cart slot and my nose. You can guess it was anti peorective actually but maybe one of rhe earlier times i FAFOd

[@buffalodebill1976]

@@jhoughjr1 Umh.. With a bit of humour - either this happened recently and you are still disgustingly young - or it happened in the 80s and your entry is a proof you beat the odds and managed to get older 🙂

[@vwestlife]

The 1200XL actually has the nicest-feeling keyboard, and fixed some of the problems with the keyboard layout. But people who had gotten used to the original 400/800 layout complained about some of the keys being repositioned, so with the later machines Atari went back to the original layout (except for the unreleased 1400XL and 1450XLD, which would've retained the 1200XL's keyboard).

[@buffalodebill1976]

@@vwestlife Reading about Atari keyboards a bit (when I was trying to find a fix for some keys failing on my friend's 65XE), I noticed they became such a subject to virtual quarrels I could not believe it.. Frankly, they almost beat topics like politics or football to it 😀 BTW the keyboard discussions are still ongoing (I checked back in 2023), though they're by far not as heated as 5 years ago and seems to lean more towards the "how to's" already. Nice. Frankly, on the subject matter, I could speak from memory only and exclusively in regards to 800XL (with Alps and Mitsumi keyboards) and 65XE (SCCO) and maybe the Atari 800 (which I used heavily for two days and then a few times since casually only - it had the Alps keyboard, if I'm not mistaken). So there's no opinion here on my part. So due to the above, I relied solely on recalling the STATS and personal preferences posted on some of the Atari forums quite some time ago, I mean 5+ years. And I also recall, that in my youth, all the people talked down the XL keyboards a bit (and XE ones very much) while saying "the OG 800 was so much better, felt like a real keyboard". Which is why I believe the 800 might been THE mass-produced computer from Atari with the best keyboard. BTW back in the day, I knew not about the 1200XL and thus knew no-one with a 1200XL - probably this was due to its non-existence to ultra-rarity here, in eastern Europe - and even since, I have never really experienced it myself fully, I mean besides a 2 minute try-it-out in a computer museum. Lastly, I tend to think both the 1200XL and the 1400XL & 1450XLD prototypes may be hyped a bit, due to their rarity and the fact they were (maybe) great but made no impact onto history. Also, think about it this way - Atari sold over 4 mil of the 800 model, while the sales of the 1200XL didn't cross the 100k barrier.

[@vwestlife]

@@buffalodebill1976 The keyboards in the 600XL/800XL varied from total crap to pretty good depending on which supplier was used. (IIRC, Alps was the best, Mitsumi was OK, and Stackpole was garbage.) But the 1200XLs all had very good keyboards.

[@umakemerandy3669]

"How 8 bit graphics work" is the video that made me fall in love with this channel. Stoked for this one.

[@ecdhe]

One thing which is not covered here is that the Atari 8-bit has hardware scrolling support - something the TI-99/4 didn't have. Actually we'll have to wait for the MSX 2+ to have a 8-bit computer which supports similar bidirectional smooth scrolling capabilities (the C64 doesn't really)

[@JavaJack59]

True color indirection/color cycling as well.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

Huh? C64 VIC-II does the hard part: the smooth scrolling 8x8 positions As ZX spectrum owners know, even an 8 bit CPU is fast enough to move 1kB per frame around. Yeah, why did Commodore forgot the “easy part” : pitch register, and allow the CPU to write start position in like 16 lines inside the top border?

[@ecdhe]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt I'm not saying that it's not possible to do smooth scrolling on a C64, but it's not as straightforward as on Atari 8-bit (I did write one on both systems). Full support for bidirectional scrolling means the ability to deal with non-contiguous frame buffer, like on machines such as Atari 8-bit, MSX 2+ or the Amiga.

[@peterpayne2219]

This is my favorite video from you. Literally my entire proto-adulthood compressed into 34 minutes. I wanted the 1450XLD so bad back in the day, you have no idea.

[@volvo1971]

So did I ! I used to salivate over pics of it in an Atari catalog. Built in disk drives and a modem! But then Tramiel came along and killed the entire XL line.

[@Leeki85]

Atari 8-bit computers were quite popular in Poland in late 80's up to mid-90's. Western countries had Nintendo vs Sega. We had Commodore vs Atari. Atari 8-bit computers were so popular that local developers started making and releasing commercial games. Polish games are probably the most advanced games released for this hardware since it was supported for so long. I've personally never seen 8-bit Atari computer, but I've met people who had it back in the day.

[@feamatar]

Thank you for the detailed video. It is so cool that you have all these different models.

[@michaelstoliker971]

How Atari 8-bit computers worked? Splendidly!

[@kennethmoody9841]

We had two of each generation of Atari computers. One for me and one for my grandfather. We loved them all

[@JUGGALOMADNESS]

If you ever do a live 8-bit guy I'll be happy to come on live and show you my Atari 800 I want to get it fixed and I want to get it cleaned up it was my father's. It means a lot to me. Lotta memories one of my favorite systems.

[@jhoughjr1]

U sure its broken? The psu is a likely culprit. For most saftey if u dont know, dont plug it in until you can verify the power supply is in spec. If he dont see this i could advise on fixing it if broken as i have an ee degree

[@MrTeapots]

I loved this video. I had two of the computers you showed: the Sinclair and the TRS-80, which I rented by the month from Radio Shack. Sinclair was very difficult to use the cheap membrane keyboard and to load programs from a cassette tape. It felt like an unfinished product. The TRS-80 was just the opposite and had COLOURS!

[@LR-1977]

Oh, it’s back, yay! Great video as always, I didn’t even know these things were as capable as they are!

[@Delekhan]

As always, excellent video man! I love the trips down memory lane I get to take while watching. I was too young to know much about computers and consoles when I was young and was astonished when I'd go to my friend's houses to play games on their systems. Your passion for this subject shines through and I I have a great time watching your vids. Much love and thank you!

[@a_Fax_Machine]

I am constantly impressed by my Atari 800. It's capability is amazing for 1979

[@markleuck]

With the exception of the C64's sound chip it was fairly close in comparison which is amazing considering the C64 came out 3 years later

[@fragalot]

@@markleuck had 4 sound channels over Commodore 3, tho. The music in M.U.L.E. was better than the port of M.U.L.E. for C64. I say "port" since M.U.L.E. was originally written on the Atari 800.

[@jhoughjr1]

@@markleucksome pppl say pokey is equal to SID but it was too close to me. Both could make sounds the other didnt. Ive heard some pokey demos that were definitely on par with the sid

[@jasonharmon4588]

Great overview of the series. One detail of note is that several of the Atari machines, starting with the original 800, had chroma and luma (SVideo) on the monitor port in addition to composite output. As others have mentioned, the CTIA was replaced by the GTIA early in the original 400/800 production and I think most 400/800 machines did come with the GTIA. Later 800s also came standard with 48K of RAM. If you open the back of an 800 and see that the ROM and RAM cards are uncased, it is likely one of the systems that came stock with 48K. Finally, for some strange reason, the stock 1050 disk drive could support at best "enhanced" 127K density, despite the drive mechanism being double density. There were simple plug-in enhancements for it like the ICD US Doubler that would allow it to run in true double density 180K mode.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

When the 400/800 came out RAM was very expensive and that stuck until Commodore had its own discount chip factory.

[@FilCanJay]

Even Atari Computer vloggers couldn't put a video out like this. This is very in depth.

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

I spent hours typing in programs from Compute! and Byte magazine on that 400 keyboard. I eventually upgraded to an 800XL and a Rana 1000 floppy drive. Ball Blazer and Rescue of Fractalus were super fun games.

[@nickpalance3622]

Some C64 games had a load screen graphic and maybe a little tune to keep you occupied while the rest of the day was spent waiting for the 1541 to finish. Atari 8bit was mostly just that beep beep beep. But Ballblazer’s load sequence! Wow! 🤯 It was amazing!

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

@@nickpalance3622 Yes... the music was really good as well!

[@AristarcoPalacios]

What a great video! An early Christmas gift. I've loved the Atari line ever since my dad gave me a 2600 back in 1984. Always a pleasure to hear more about Atari. Thanks, sir!

[@maryking9706]

Keep doing what you love. Your humility is why we're here. Respect!

[@tallen6641]

1982 I spent mostly in the basement on the 800 compiling 6502 assembler using “Synassembler” and learning C/65. My classmates were learning Basic in the Apple II lab. So with that head start, why am I not rich? Still have the beast and play Necromancer every now and then.

[@TheTuubster]

One of the fun facts about little Atari is its SIO interface which was used to connect multiple external devices of various type and even power them through it (like a cassette deck). Its Ingenieurs would later develop the USB interface from that. Also a fun fact is that its video chip inspired the Amiga video chip.

[@ThunderClawShocktrix]

it also reminds me of ADB and SCSI in that way

[@SyntheToonz]

The Atari 8-bit video chips did more than inspire the Amiga hardware design. The hardware designers of both computers were mostly the same people.

[@nickpalance3622]

I saw Joe Decuir talk at VCF East in 2019 for the 40th anniversary of the 400 & 800. He mentioned his work on SIO as inspiration for USB. He said that some troll tried to sue the implementers of USB and he testified “no no no I did that already back in 1979 - prior art” and shut them down.

[@efigueroap]

This is the kind of video that I love about this channel

[@HobbyHalloween]

Wow! Thanks for the info on Atari. I didn't realize how much the Atari systems were done. The 800 system is really impressive for the time with all those cartridge slots. I got a 400 with an upgraded keyboard at a garage sale, but never really played much with it, I plan to one day to get all my old computers back to functioning condition and I'll play with the 400 some more.

[@jhoughjr1]

Its a neat machine. If i recall the 400 only had 16 k but could go to 48k.

[@HobbyHalloween]

@@jhoughjr1 I'd have to check the RAM on that machine, it might have 48K... they said it was upgraded but I forgot what all they said.

[@jhoughjr1]

@ im pretty foggy on it it might hve been after market nore upgradeable even to something 130xe like

[@realpdm]

Love learning more about this computer. Atari 400 was my first computer when I was 6 yo. I recall sitting in front of the TV with it and my big toe would wiggle the expansion port. When I got BASIC for it at 7 or 8 I was pretty disappointed I couldn't use the tape deck with the learning basic cassette tape. I figured out though that the cassette had voice instruction on one channel and data on the other so I learned BASIC listening to my brother's stereo with the balance shifted to one side. Loved that computer and even kept using it when I got my C64 and 128D eventually.

[@BenHeckHacks]

4:20 The Atari 800 keyboard is LEGENDARY! Speaking of the keyboard, the POKEY with built-in debounce for keyboard scanning was much better than the C64 solution.

[@BenHeckHacks]

Oh, also, you could use DLI's to change character sets mid-frame as well. You could store multiple of them in RAM.

[@tarstarkusz]

I used a C64 all through the 80s and never once had keyboard bounce be a problem. Though, I did have a problem with one of the function keys and the return key. Both stopped working.

[@nickpalance3622]

Ben Heck Hacks! My orange tabbies say “meow” to yours 🐈

[@Rybagz]

The C64 problem is moreso that the CIA port lines are shared between controllers and the keyboard such that joysticks will interfere with it's operation. It does have the advantage though that multiple keys can be detected at once making it practical for arcade games. Atari arcade games using keys for directional control are virtually non-existent.

[@herberteisenbei8112]

Thanks for all your great content in 2024 on this channel and Time Rift Arcade! May 2025 be a great year for you, your brother, family and loved ones, David! Also may your arcade continue to thrive!

[@Nukle0n]

That 1200XL still has plastic film over the metal buttons... Must be so tempting.

[@McVaio]

My 600XL still had it but I removed it because it was all dirty.

[@richardthunderbay8364]

Good to see the return of retrospective videos to the channel. My older brother had a 600 XL back in the day. I spent many enjoyable hours playing games like Star Raiders on it. Good times.

[@ChristiRich]

Thanks for bringing this to the Atari club meeting. It’s always a good day when The 8-Bit Guy is there.

[@sephiroth1277]

I'd like to add my voice for what it's worth as well. Less of a critique and more of a personal comment, I much prefer this kind of content. It feels more at the roots of what I feel in love with here. History, functionality, repairs, and just general trivia. Ultimately it's your channel of course and I try to watch every video, but just my two cents, keep up the amazing content!

[@Mohammed1000real]

A perfect video for any newcomers to the Atari 8-bit line of computers!

[@erebostd]

7:09 would you believe me, we never knew THAT was possible - until today. And we used the Atari a lot, back in the days 😁👍

[@mikewest6569]

This was the best 8-bit computer throughout the 80s, hands down. Considering the fact it was conceived in 1977 and released in 1979 and still was relevant and selling 10 years later.

[@thinkingfield]

Great video! I was 13 in 1981 when I bought my Atari 800. It was a magical time. I’d have arguments constantly with my friend who owned an Apple II about how much better my Atari was!

[@user-qf6yt3id3w]

Jay Miner's design was brilliant.

[@stevenA44]

By far my favorite video you've ever done. I LOVE Atari computers. I miss mine so much. I started out with the 800XL, then went to the 130XE, then upgraded the memory in it. I had the 1010 (I think) tape drive, 2 1050 floppy drives and all kinds of cartridges and floppies for it. I ended up trading it to a friend for something and can't for the life of me remember what I traded it all to. I've been trying to get it all back from him for years but couldn't get in touch with him. I finally got his # and I'm going to give him a call and see if he still has it. I learned to program in basic on my 800XL. Had a problem getting the program to run, and then I figured out the issue. The "dot matrix" print that was in the manual, instead of regular fonts, made a "l" and a "(", look like a "k" "I(". That drove me nuts until I finally figured it out!!! I was sooo happy that I figured it out and the program worked. It was a game I programing.

[@GiordanDiodato]

actually the reason is more because of the 1983 video game crash and Atari losing half a billion dollars in 1984 and just never fully recovering.

[@thelibraview9032]

We had an Atari 800 XL when I was growing up and loved that computer!

[@KLund1100]

He did not touch on the fact that these computers were 'fool' proof. The cartridges only go in one way. The same for the SIO cables, Joysticks, and ram modules. The Reset key on the 800 has plastic shielding to prevent accidental resets ( I see you A][ ). Later units had this key moved far from the main keyboard. The everyday public could not hurt, or be hurt by the computer. The 1050 disk drive is 'Enhanced' density, not double, rather x1.5 density. He also did not show how easy Atari DOS is to use. I like how he covered the complete range to Atari 8-Bit systems. Overall Very well made coverage!!!

[@sunspot42]

Yeah, Atari DOS was much, much, much easier to use than any other DOS at the time, being menu based. The Atari 8-bits were easily the simplest personal computers to setup and use until the Mac came along in '84. And the Mac cost a whopping 10 times as much.

[@Thesecret101-te1lm]

Although there were many issues at the with the same connector fitting different brands causing incorrect connections, was it really common that other computers allowed incorrect connections? Sure, the Apple II has always seemed a bit weird with it's plug-in cards that can be inserted in the wrong slot, and disk drives that would die if the connector is inserted the wrong way. But for other companies? The user + IEEE ports on a PET is keyed and the other ports have different sizes/shapes that prevents them from being plugged in the wrong port. I think this is true for the TRS-80 too. Same goes for the TI 99/4. The problem is that parts for one system could be plugged into a system from another brand and cause problems. Atari suffered from this just as much as every other computer manufacturer at the time. For that sake non-computer stuff also suffered from this at the time.

[@KLund1100]

@@Thesecret101-te1lm Could you site an example regarding Atari 8-bit computers? I can not think of any hardware from Commodore/Apple/RadioShack/Acorn/Sinclair-Timex/TI/Matel/IBM/Clones that joe/jane public would ever attempt to connect to an 8-bit Atari. There is no physical way to do it with the standard connections in Atari computers. The public could add a Disk Drive to an Atari and boot to DOS probably in less then 5 minutes. On V20/C64/128's how many have plugged power into the monitor or drive ports or vise/vera killing something? PETS yes were keyed, but you would get a hernia moving one of those drives. TI's needed that huge expansion box. The sidecars were cool, but no printers, tape, or floppy drives. TRS80's used ribbon cables. If you got one that was not keyed, nothing would work, and that expansion box ribbon connection never really worked well. Atari had the novice user well in mind when designing these machines. Good example is just ready one of the user manuals. Simple step by step with easy to understand pictures.

[@Thesecret101-te1lm]

@@KLund1100 It would probably not be great to connect a Commodore power supply to the power connector of an 600XL/800XL. The three DIN connectors on the Commodores have different physical pin placement and shouldn't be possible to plug in to the wrong port. (But sure, some batch of the PSUs used so cheap plastic in the connector mold, and only populated the four actually used pins, that it was possible to connect to the monitor port - but that wasn't a design mistake but rather a quality problem with the manufacturing).. Never heard of anyone able to plug the wrong plug in the serial port though. (And also, plugging the power supply in the monitor port wouldn't be possible on a VIC 20 as the monitor port is a 5-pin, and on the C128 the power supply has a square connector). (The 7-pin power supply connector uses the round C shape while the monitor port on a C64, C128 and Plus/4 (and I think C16) uses the U shape. Never understood why there are two different shapes for 8-pin DIN. Afaik only one are part of the DIN standard though). Thinking about it though, the actual design mistake is that the C128 and the Amiga power supplies can be plugged into the wrong computer, mixing up 9V AC with +/-12V DC. Incredibly enough it seems like the few components that run off 12V on an Amiga survives 9V AC, but it's not great. Speaking of power supply connectors, I bet that in many cases where the power supply for a 600XL/800XL was lost a DIY replacement ended up with a 5-pin rather than a 7-pin connector, and that in turn could accidentally be plugged in to the monitor port.

[@KLund1100]

@@Thesecret101-te1lm Can you give an example of this for Atari 8-bit computers?

[@Just_Sebastian]

I had an Atari 800XL with cassette, disk drive and an Atari printer. Man those were the days! Thanks for the video, enjoyed watching. A lot!