Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Missiles

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Advance Wars Unit Analysis: Missiles
Welcome to my new series where I analyze units from Advance Wars. In this installment, I will be taking a look at the missiles.
#gba #advancewars #nintendo

[@Mangs1337]

What do you guys think about missiles? And what unit would you like to see me cover next?

[@mistychemist]

Building a missile at any point has got to be the biggest mistake of any match

[@acguy907]

Recons

[@sturm2186]

Pipe runner

[@skt1beast]

Just ppl make anti airs

[@SucyTanuki]

what about crusiers?

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

Day 5 : helicopter sighted Day 59 : missile is in position to counter the copter

[@ZorotheGallade]

The funniest thing is that by then the copter will have crashed from running out of fuel.

[@michaeledmunds7056]

​@@ZorotheGallade Missile: "Helicopter destroyed, mission accomplished!"

[@alasdairsinclair916]

@@michaeledmunds7056 "My job here is done." "But you didn't do anything."

[@whydoyougottahavthis]

Day 59.5: anti air unit countered; target it was meant to destroy is too close, and Everytime we move it just moves into our deadspace and mocks us at night

[@DavidHernandez-dw9sb]

Day 60: Hawke's super is finally ready

[@inversepie6512]

Easily the greatest weakness is the horrid movement. The main advantage to missiles is shooting areas anti-air can't reach. But a missile is never going to get anywhere not within a few tiles of a factory.

[@plestern08]

Laughs in Sturm

[@Kingfisher_2376]

Worse still, its low movement is both mechanically and narratively contrary to the "Tires" movement type. Disclaimer: I'm a bit of a realism whore; So, in our world, wheeled vehicles are generally favored for their superior mobility; especially over roads. Treads are used because they reduce a vehicle's ground pressure and make them more stable on rough terrain at the cost of speed and fuel efficiency. Arguably, this is reflected in some of the advantages of Tanks in game, but aside from Recon, Tired vehicles (basically Rockets and Missiles) end up taking a double whammy by being both needlessly slow and unsuited to rough terrain.

[@blazingkite8983]

to me while movement is also a problem its range is an issue in itself too for something that is meant to take down the most mobile units, it has terrible range I mean 5 tiles even a copter can go from the outside ring to the inner ring easily, you could say the same for a rocket and a tank you could but unlike Terrain units, an Air unit ignores terrain obstacles and thus you cannot put the missile behind a mountain or anything (besides forest in fog games) to cover fire unlike a rocket being behind a wall of mountain or a river against a tank the Carrier at the very least despite being such a meme with 28k fund cost at least has a slightly more air oppressive range as they should a missile hardly oppress Air combatants

[@volksdude1970]

@@blazingkite8983 Missiles are good for one thing, though. They offer a good, cheap way to defend Island bases if you cannot afford a cruiser yet. Not only that, but if you pair them with an AA or two, 9/10 times, nobody will chance trying to attack them with air units. The would be crazy to risk losing two chopper units at 9k each (18k total) to destroy something worth 12k. And like Mangs said in the video, if you can set up one or two around an airport, you have effectively locked it down, and if set up in a known aircraft route, they provide a large area of denial to your enemy. Just be sure to provide 2-3 infantry, mixed with AA support and the occasional tank to provide a shield around it. They are definitely a very niche unit, but they do serve their purpose well. Not as good as they could, but far from horrible.

[@robertharris6092]

​​@@blazingkite8983 this is proven by the fact DoR not only gave the missile 5 movement. But also gave it 6 range.

[@SucyTanuki]

So this is kinda like the "are they worth it?" series but going deeper into the unit itself?

[@SucyTanuki]

13:12 he said the lines

[@Mixa_Lv]

The way you built the map so you could do everything in one take was very impressive. Just using the game's own tools and mechanics to demonstrate the points without compromises, well done.

[@yoloman3607]

I know right?

[@JuanMatteoReal]

I'll be guessing Mangs will talk about a Cruiser's removed ability and its animation. In Advance Wars Returns, Missiles is 10k and has the movement of six.

[@davidmcgill1000]

Fully expect to see him showing off a cruiser carrying two loaded transport helicopters and refueling them.

[@SukacitaYeremia]

@@davidmcgill1000 does it resupply the mechs in it as well?

[@davidmcgill1000]

@@SukacitaYeremia Just checked. It will also supply ammo to battle copters but not to transported mechs.

[@mavairick]

I actually forgot about that ! What i did not forgot on the other hand is battleship being able to shoot after moving in days of ruin/dark conflict. and carrier becoming direct unit.

[@YourFunkiness]

One change that would make missiles useful: if they don't fire on their turn, they automatically fire on the first enemy air unit to enter their area of effect.

[@EdKolis]

Sounds like the point defense cannons from Space Empires IV...

[@richard35791]

Yeah, that's how real life missiles works

[@General12th]

​@@richard35791But does the missile know where it is because it knows where it isn't?

[@robertharris6092]

Wouls they fire if the unit ends its turn in range of the missile or if it just enters the range at all?

[@iv689]

Sounds kinda op in fog, specially since air units can't hide on woods and missiles have 5 vision

[@timidfalcoknight]

So what this video taught me was that missile-chan is strong against recon-chan

[@FabulousJejmaze]

UwU

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

Imo the worst thing about missiles is the fact that the units they're supposed to counter can counter the missile itself. There is no air unit who can't get into a missiles's safespot. I think you should do all the units, from infantry all the way up. There's a lot to talk about, even (or especially) with infantry.

[@joshy541]

You sure you're talking about missile and not about FE archers?

[@anonyme4881]

@@joshy541 Hey, at least in some FE game archer are usefull or even broken

[@Polarthief]

That's just kinda an advantage of most air units, namely the BCopters (except against AA, it can hit Cruisers and Missiles hard) and the Bomber (destroys all 3: AA, Cruisers, and Missiles if it gets the first hit). It's why air units are so good. Fighters, outside of dogfights (in which case, first strike generally wins), are obviously an exception as it can't hit any of those units to begin with (and needless to say but TCopters too but they're not a battle unit). Also yeah, I'd so be down for every single unit, maybe skipping Neo/Megatanks since those were already covered.

[@LopsidedMoz]

Infantry caps and is only effective vs other infantry, not much to talk about tbh. Theres plenty of strategy with how to use infantry but thats a matter of playstyle and skill

[@anonyme4881]

@@LopsidedMoz There is a lot to talk about infantry. Damage it take, how to place them, why they are so important

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

I think the concept of Missiles is neat. Having a kind of zone of anti air protection. Especially one that can reach into mountains, sea and other places that AA can't go. It's generally horribly overcosted though, and it's abysmal mobility means it can't even get into position to do it's job well. They treated it like a counterpart to rockets, but it's not at all in the same spot. The boosted range from Days of Ruin did a lot to make it actually effective at deterring air power, but the price and mobility still needed improvement for it to be a worthwhile investment.

[@chilwil07]

The biggest issue with them is how while they function like rockets their target units are incredibly mobile and pack a big punch so you have to invest heavily to protect them when you could just use AA guns for half the cost more def and mobility

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@chilwil07 I mean, the main edge that an indirect anti air option has is in heavy terrain. If the air units are able to zip around through mountains, forests and rivers, picking at your forces while your AA gets stuck in the terrain, the missile should be an effective deterrent instead. But missiles are too expensive to get out early and too immobile to actually get into position in a heavy terrain area. The boosted missile range of DoR actually made them pretty intimidating to try and approach if they were in a mix of other ground vehicles. You just only got to see this in effect on predeploy maps since they still weren't worth building.

[@gogobrasil7185]

I think it's beyond worthwhile in Days of Ruin because the AI is smarter. You can use it to keep air units away from your army. And the extra range means that it's much easier to slowly move it forward and eventually block an airport. I'd say they're really worth it in Days of Ruin, specially on maps with a lot of air units (which is like most of them)

[@gogobrasil7185]

@@chilwil07 Just leave it in the middle of your army, bro. Around mid-game in the Days of Ruin campaign you usually have a sizable number of units. If you position them right, you can easily protect the missiles and the air units have no choice but to stay away.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@gogobrasil7185 Campaign value is fairly different from pvp value, you know? I do think they are drastically better in DoR than other games because of their boosted range, but I'd still rarely build them if I had the option of AA + Fighters/dusters/copter. Pvp wise I would still boost their mobility a fair bit and maybe shave off their price a tad if I wanted to see them have any usage. There are a couple missions in the campaign that kind of demand missiles though. I remember one where you have to slowly crawl though a long line of enemy indirect, heavy terrain impediments and hordes of enemy air units. On that map, missile were worth gold.

[@EbeeDeeby]

Missiles are great, when the Campaign gives them to me for free! :)

[@Delimon007]

Literally just said the same thing multiple times 😂 Quite literally, the ONLY time I have ever owned this unit was when it was given to me for free to fight a massive air squad stupid enough to just run into me.

[@davidmcgill1000]

Long story short: tires are garbage. Giving treads to anti-air and artillery instantly makes them preferable over rockets and missiles for getting to engagements.

[@kirbyis4ever]

Decent for punishing anything that wanders into/gets baited into its range. As long as the missiles don't have to move they do their job: threatening air units into not attacking, or forcing a direct push toward it.

[@meathir4921]

@@kirbyis4ever Two problems. 1 - Anti Air still do that for less money. 2 - Anti Air are faster.

[@kirbyis4ever]

@@meathir4921 AA can also fight back against ground troops, copters, and even do some damage to tanks in a pinch. Yeah, missiles kinda suck, but aircraft are also expensive and missiles will cripple or kill without having to move into danger. Map layout matters a lot

[@stevengu1253]

@@kirbyis4ever Yeah, but I feel missiles just suck outright in a PvP map...

[@LopsidedMoz]

@@kirbyis4ever They are slow and expensive though, plus they need protection. Even when playing as Grit I rarely use missiles

[@BigKlingy]

The Wargroove counterpart to the Missile is interesting, the Ballista. It has more range, greater mobility from what remember, and can also fire on ground units and properties for chip damage. While this damage isn't very high, it adds up. (I've seen Commanders put into kill range by Ballistas before) It covers a wider area for air denial while having secondary utility. It's cheaper than its AW counterpart too.

[@ajsmotolife5641]

Yes! the Ballista is certainly a big improvement over the Missile

[@semajniomet981]

Sadly, it's still viewed as a waste of money compared to the nerfed trebuchet.

[@Polaris5664]

"Just do whatever Grit does in fog of war missions: Deploy missiles to help you see better!" -Hachi In all seriousness, I really wish some units had more prevalence, particularly battleships and missiles.

[@fortunastreet]

Days of ruin is your boy.

[@thomasquesada7248]

So fucking true Days of ruin and the battleship land supremacy

[@caellanmurphy4751]

@@thomasquesada7248 also arty and rockets in it having 3 vision

[@mauricesteel4995]

@@caellanmurphy4751 Rockets and Artillery having bad vision makes no sense since the unit has a spotter during their attack animations.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

​@@mauricesteel4995 The Spotter is only there to see if the rockets/missiles/shells hit I think. Those vehicles should have electronics like radar to "see" what is around them, but it seems like visual confirmation is still necessary. I think.

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

For some godforsaken reason Missiles are my favorite unit. Something about using them is extremely satisfying. Huge vision, good range, and absolutely obscene power. It's totally garbage in any serious PVP game (usually) but there's something so ridiculously fun about just annihilating everything in one hit. Of course in reality air units just fly around it or get within its minimum range. But still, super cool unit!

[@chrisf.9595]

This mini-series is like the False Swipe Gaming of Advance Wars, and I love it

[@anafu-sankanashi8933]

How good were Missiles Actually?

[@SkullOfGears]

Well Mags, I won't lie, I remember complaining frequently about the Missiles' lack of mobility since they had both only 4 movement and had the movement type of tires. If I were to buff the missiles, I would do so by either changing the movement type to track (still keeping the 4 movement space) so it can at least be easier to get it into position or by increasing the movement from 4 to 5, while keeping the movement type of tires. If either buff does not seem to work, I would pick one of the buffs previously mentioned and then add in an increase of range of 1 tile (as done in Days of Ruin) to least have the missile be more useful at zoning out the air units because missile units have always been so satisfying to see in action (when it finally hits their targets) in my opinion.

[@mavairick]

Yes, more range is the first thing coming to my mind because air units tend to have a lot of movement, so you need range to counter that.

[@Jamieboi1989]

@@mavairick agreed. they did this to the carrier in duel strike at least so it was made a threat to all air units but the stealth fighter. you wouldnt dare approach one with copters or even a bomber because your likely not clearing its high range safely. though 30K is a huge sum lol. shame the carrier didnt exist in black hole rising. wouldve spiced up air to sea battles more. I feel ships were too exposed to air units in this game because the cruiser also doesnt do its job well much like missiles lol. so yeah missiles I think needed like at least 7 max range to keep at least copters staying away from it.

[@stevengu1253]

Or you can keep everything about the missile but change the game completely by allowing missiles to move and shoot.

[@bongcloudopening5404]

@@Jamieboi1989 problem with carriers is that they are just far to expensive for what? Anti air that can resupply air units? Litteraly a black boat could do that but better In days of ruin the carriers are just so fun to play I like that it can create air units, resupply them and repair them and it also holds 2 With the aded ability that it can protect your planes and make them shoot safely because when you unload an air unit it still gets to attack

[@mavairick]

@@stevengu1253 Allowing an indirect unit to move and shoot like they did with the battleship is actually a big change. but the thing is, if you move out of cover to attck then you expose yourself, which lesser the effectiveness of mental pressure, knowing they is an indirect threatening you is different from seeing it.

[@seesiem958]

As someone who loves strategy games but just found out about this game from the Direct announcement, I'm all for this series! More, please ^_^

[@doublekoseki]

They are also kawaii af, so they are less likely to be targeted by any player with a soul.

[@BarderBetterFasterStronger]

Why would you say something so brave but so true.

[@butteredsalmonella]

KILL ALL TROOPS MURDER ALL TROOPS SLAUGHTER ALL TROOPS

[@bossrosslp]

Given the fact that this is a game where you have "war for fun", I don't think souls are a commodity here :3

[@ultimategamer2669]

Wild CopperCab appeared! Ultimate Gamer used Missiles! It's not very effective...

[@koolaiddamianicbackup6028]

wtf ur saying these things are soo bloody satisfying to blast out existance and know yours air armada is safe now

[@ShadowSaberBaroxio]

Missiles should have the same defense against air units that Anti-air have. If it took a battle copter 3 turns to kill a missile, it might actually become viable to build them.

[@LopsidedMoz]

That would be pointless, they are already weak enough to tanks

[@michaelnatanael3360]

Mangs weeks later: "I've come to appreciate the missiles."

[@Artemas_16]

It wasn't actually biggest mistake of the match.

[@Sweaper]

Very specific case for missiles. In 1 vs 10+ players missiles can be better than AAs later on for the team with multiple players for the fact that they are going to have a unit number advantage once the limit is hit on everyone and also because they are going to have less funds per player compared to the solo player so sacking AAs forever to get rid of air units will get expensive compared to setting up some missiles to cover your wall of units. So basically since the multiple player team wants to stall to get better units and unit count you'll be prioritizing infantry, indirect and stealths to stall until funds become a non issue for building units for pushing

[@michaela2634]

A cool addition to this series would be to, at the end, do a section on how to balance a unit (buffs if unit is bad or nerfs if unit is OP or an assessment of why unit is balanced if it is). I know you touched on it briefly but Id personally like to hear more of what you think. For missiles I think a cost drop plus either improved range (2-6) or improved mobility (5 movement on treads) would help a lot. Tires just suck unless a unit has crazy high movement like recons.

[@noob3765]

I would prefer if missiles were MUCH cheaper and more mobile, but have somewhat reduced firepower. I think most players would be happy if a full health missile brings down a bomber to 3 HP, but actually gets to shoot bombers.

[@VioTUmbra]

Maybe a cost of 10,000

[@estepeadr12345]

nah, days of ruin missiles are enough TBH. 1 increased range are enough to make missiles viable

[@dpgreene]

In Super Famicom Wars there is the Anti Air equivalent of the artillery called the Flak Gun (in the latest fan translation), so cheaper and less range. I found them somewhat useful against the AI especially battle copters.

[@robertharris6092]

​@@estepeadr12345 DOR also increased the mobility to 5.

[@Darkside007]

The only buff the missiles need is better mobility. Either 8 move or treads at 5 move. Tires at 4 for a dedicated AA unit is bonkers

[@sebastianlucas704]

Dor gave them +1 range.

[@shiftfire4511]

Honestly, I wouldn't increase their maximum range...But I would make their minimum range better, give them a 2-5 range to make them riskier for air units to attack. There was actually a unit in Super Famicom Wars that got completely removed from future games, the AA Cannon, that was basically just an anti-air artillery unit. It almost never saw play because of how fast Air units are combined with the low-range, even though the price was the lowest of all indirects, so giving modern rockets the singular advantage it had, the 2 minimum range, seems like a good idea. It's not a huge buff, but it would help. Still needs a big buff to movement, though.

[@kingandcountry1242]

@@shiftfire4511 Sounds sorta like the Anti-tank from DoR, except the AT is fairly versatile.

[@Darkside007]

@@shiftfire4511 You have to be careful cutting down the minimum range. You don''t want missiles to invincible to air or some maps become unplayable

[@aphantomthief1416]

I literally love this guy. He revived and reviews one of my favorite game of my childhood, which not many people know about. And he is also so accurate about it! Loving it Mangs!

[@mauricesteel4995]

Missiles are extremely hard to get trapped due to their overlapping movement and vision, the only way to trap one in AW is to move it into a forest one tile away from it that is connected by a road tile.

[@Yous0147]

Yes please, more of this. The reason why I subscribed to you was because of your excellent Neo Tanks video so this was a treat.

[@inquaanate2393]

This is a very well done video with the visuals to explain the points.

[@controladordemasas99]

I appreciate the effort you have done prepearing that whole map and choreography for the different examples. Great jobs mangs. I'm excited for your next technical video.

[@OniTenyuTTV]

The reason for the difference in machine gun damage between missiles and rockets is that rockets require personnel exterior the vehicle for targeting where as missiles are equipped with radar thus requiring no external personnel so all parts of the unit is protected via the armor of the vehicle.

[@Pine0wlple]

OMG I remember making a comment about this! I’m glad I contributed to making a new series!

[@ladymercy5275]

One reason that missiles might be less vulnerable to machine gun fire is that, unlike rocket / artillery, guided munitions are often built with some kind of engine involved. This makes them safer to store and handle. Dumbfire rockets, by contrast, are little more than giant fireworks. Once they ignite, that's it; they're going and they're not going to stop until they explode. There's no control mechanism to guide, so it's cost effective (and allows the firing of larger salvos for greater firepower) to build rockets with no off switch. The implication is that by spraying rocket units with machine gun fire, they're sparking the munitions while they're in the tubes to great effect.

[@FIamestalker]

The Missile also got +1 movement in Days of Ruin, while it still didn't make them very mobile by any means any little bit helps to get them into position

[@seld2040]

It justified more its price in Days of Ruin. For the reboot, if they don't want to change missiles, they should at least make them cheaper, like 10K.

[@Syngrafer]

Very well made and thought-out video. Love it!

[@MisterVercetti]

Like how you're using Nell vs. Olaf here; really gives off that AW1 Field Training vibe.

[@Yearofthebows24]

Missiles should have 5 movement and treads. That would allow them to get into position and fire away behind your wall of units

[@gogobrasil7185]

I really like these scripted Advance Wars videos. Keep them coming! Missiles are really good on Days of Ruin. Not only do they have increased range (which makes a lot of difference), the AI also responds to it, so you can use it to keep air units away. So you deploy one in the middle of your army, block its minimum range with units, and now air units aren't a problem anymore. You can protect your valuable units like medium tanks and rockets and you can buy yourself time to build fighters and dusters to counter-attack. So it contributes to what I think is the most enjoyable air combat meta in the series. There's a lot more strategy.

[@sr.lontra]

Since it's the only one of its kind¹, they should have a closer minimum range, at 2~5. That would make them much more reliable, plus an extra movement is also welcome. 4 movement for an expensive *vehicle* is too little. 5 would be just right. ¹(ground indirects have a short (arty) and long (rockets) ranged units. But surface-to-air only has the missiles)

[@LeoMidori]

Days of Ruins' version would be what you're looking for; it has 2~6 range, and 5 movement like the Rocket.

[@caellanmurphy4751]

@@LeoMidori days is 3-6 but yeah that 1 move helps alot

[@caellanmurphy4751]

funfact in super famicom wars theres a UNIT called FLAK which is basically a ARTY VERSION of the missiles

[@gamermanzeake]

Going through this series again! Very good guides honestly. With a lot of cool trivia! Mangs you should definitely do more of these, alongside separate guides for DoR. I think that would be cool.

[@dimasdwiki6146]

If only missiles behave like the patriot missile from Daisenryaku where it will intercept ANY flying unit that flies to it's attack range, it is insane for clearing and protecting airspace. Also in Daisen, vehicle with tire type movement will get movement boost when moving on roads, which make them still useful on map with many roads

[@jeremyluo8764]

Love this stuff Mangs keep the videos coming

[@SynergyGamingTV]

I'm going to love this video series!!

[@Deimos_Fresh]

Looking at Missile's stats it's no surprise, that it's usfulness mostly grows in FoW scenarios. But let's be thankful that they can actually pass through forest tiles unlike Famicom and Super Famicom Wars.

[@medaltable]

I really enjoyed this video mr Mangs! Thank you for addressing the many problems I and others are having when playing AW. Thank you for starting this new series of explanation videos. The ‘Warsplained’ series if you will. Having said that, I haven’t played AW in a long while, studies and life have gotten in the way , but I always find the time to watch your AW videos even though I don’t always comment on them. Again, good luck on the new series, can’t wait for more!!! P.S. I don’t have a unit I want to recommend for the next video, do whatever unit you want, just make sure you cover all of them : )

[@kentmichaelgalang686]

i really love how mangs themed it after nell's tutorial maps

[@rustysoda1455]

oh boy i cant wait to see every unit until reboot camp releases

[@mrfrankie5479]

Mech are always known to be underrated, it'd be nice to see why but in more depth.

[@EdKolis]

I just want to know why they're called mechs when they aren't robots and don't have vehicles...

[@noivern8869]

@@EdKolis mechanized infantry, I guess intended to be loaded onto apcs due to their lower movement range. But maybe they do have they own gear to move better through mountains than regular infantry.

[@insertjokeh3r3]

Advance wars randomizer which randomizes cos and their powers along with unit power, movement and movement type along with attack range would be crazy to watch.

[@kent7057]

Great video and a great series to start! Your analysis is great and that trivia bit at the end--I never knew. I think another strength of missiles is the ability to suddenly deploy a unit from your base to immediately zone out or endanger high priced bombers and fighters. You could imagine, say, deploying one just to dissuade your opponents bomber from taking out your nearby medium tank. But such a situation would not happen often, which fits the fact that missiles are such a niche unit.

[@Eviscerator18]

I love the thumbnails for this series

[@cryoine7194]

here is another bit of trivia for the missile, outside of blackhole units and battleships the missile is the only ranged unit that doesn't use a little guy for range spotting/confirming target hits which would explain their massive vision range since they use radar

[@iwatchthisbecauseican1972]

Missile's weakness has a minimum of 2 spaces Sturm's Missiles: *I HAVE NO SUCH WEAKNESS*

[@zacharybrown3010]

I want to take a moment to mention how smooth the transitions were and how well integrated the script was with Mangs moving things around on the map.

[@mercuryGMMF45P]

The series started with Missile-chan. NICEEEEEEE

[@justjoyas]

Mangs: Do you want the missiles to be buffed Grit: Hell yea partner

[@HienNguyen-fg4do]

11:30 the reason is very simple. A missile doesn't require human operator whereas a rocket does. So machine gun hurts rocket more than hurts missile. It kill the people driving and aiming the rocket.

[@crowhaveninc.2103]

Hyped for this new series!

[@Quincy_Morris]

This kind of content is really valuable for new players like me who will be getting into the game for the first time when the reboot comes out.

[@Nirual86]

Missiles absolutely needed the range boost they got in Days if Ruin. Which also gave them them 5 movement like rockets. The only other way I could see them try to rebalance missiles would be the Battleship treatment where they can fire and move on the same turn, but that'd kinda go against the base concept of anti-air weaponry like this. Maybe give them slightly better defense against battle copters but they are sitting ducks anyway. Especially without Fog of War, their utility doesn't come from their ability to fight and more from their ability to effectively limit enemy air movement, at least when there are only a few of them around looking to exploit other ground units.

[@kennetheyancey]

Super awesome rare missile trivia ! Awesomesauce

[@alex_zetsu]

I think there is another use for the missile in fog of war. If you know the turn your opponent builds a bomber, it is far from the frontlines, and oyu know where he will send it, you can build either an anti-air or a Missile to counter this. Both are valid options, but the Missile needs to be built and spent 3 turns just getting there, so if you can't see the airport or if it is close to the frontline, the missile just won't work. However if you actually shoot down the bomber with the Missile, I believe you get a lot more out of that missile than you would out of the anti air if the AA got the first strike. This requires precise timing and you not only need to anticipate the bomber's production turn, but also figure out where within 3 turns it will be. The second part is not so hard when most of your tanks are in one place and he sees some of them, but the first requirement is stringent since one turn off means the missile never arrives in time. So see an air unit, build an AA, know a bomber is coming within 3 turns, build a Missile. I don't know if a 3 HP missile can shut down an airport. In one game I shot down a bomber and a transport coptor early on with a Missile. I actually got the Missile and some units in range of the enemy airport while fleeing a push he made in one part of the map. I could see there was a Mech, Tank and Medium Tank next to the airport, so blocking it wasn't an option. He built a bomber and I shot down that Bomber too. He then attacked my Missile while it was on plains and reduced it to 3 HP and built a transport coptor. My response was to kill the Tank, move the missile a single tile. He got his Medium Tank trapped on a 3 HP Rocket I had. He built a Battlecoptor. On my turn, I had my Battlecoptor attack his Medium tank, reducing it to 7 HP. my Mech then walked onto his city to take a shot, and then my Tank crippled it. My Rocket moved, and I took another shot with my Missile. He built that Battlecoptor knowing I had a 3 HP missile in range, but he built it anyways. Hilariously the next time it was his turn he trapped his Battlecoptor on my Missile and built another Battlecoptor, meaning I got to get the first strike on the weakened battlecoptor with my own battlecoptor and my 3 HP missile got it's 3rd shot at units in his airport. Sadly, I couldn't reinforce the units in this area, except with a few Mechs taking a shortcut across a River. On his next turn, the new Battelcoptor attacked my Tank and I could see infantry coming towards my little clump and he made yet another Battlecoptor. For the last time, my missile shot at his newly built unit. I don't know if he should have stopped production at the airport until he flushed out my Missile, but once it was at 3 HP he didin't view it as a threat. On the main theater, I was getting lots of first strikes with my tanks against his and hitting his directs, but somehow I was 6 cities behind despite 7 turns of good engagements, and my vehicles often blocking neutral properties. So while a healthy Missile can render an airport unusable, I don't know if he should halt production or not if I had a 3 HP one. Was he right to keep production up despite my Missile? With fog of war, Missiles have a small niche. As Mangs mentioned, you can try to use them to fight off Bombers if you're desperate and can't make a Fighter. Bombers can be trapped. If you got 3 Anti Air within 6 tiles of one of the same friendly Tank (they don't need to be within 6 tiles of every tank) and Bombers are still a threat, a Missile makes more sense than a 4th AA in fog of war. Even on plains, you can get lucky and one shotting that Bomber can turn the game around. Your odds of victory are probably below half if you're reduced to this point. On the other hand, if you somehow knew when an enemy bomber was built and he spends 3 turns flying it, you can get that sweet shot much easier. I've actually gotten a Mech in Mountains and was able to see an enemy airport. I'm not a good player, I can make good engagements, but often lose games. If I can beat someone 30% of the time, they're probably not high level. After all, in high level games, wouldn't people make sure any mountains near their airports have no Mechs?

[@marlinbundo6045]

Mangs, the point about missiles taking less MG fire compared to rockets, it doesn't seem like that's a thing on AWBW FOR INFANTRY, at least based on the DMG calculator on the website (in fact, the Missile is actually taking 1% MORE base dmg in most scenarios). It might not even be true for Mechs and Tanks over there, but idt there's currently a feature to test out secondary weapon DMG there. AA units seem to do identical DMG to both units, though that's technically not a machine gun, so it seems recons are the only beneficiary there.

[@alex_zetsu]

I'll just tack this to a list of reasons I'm not a fan of AWBW. My main complaints initially were the lack of animations, the presence of com towers, bugs (once trapping two units on the same enemy unit) and that the maps are much less Mech friendly that the default VS maps of AW2. But every now and then I find something that makes me realize it's not a replica of my beloved AW2 and my heart sinks just a bit more. Like how you just told me the missiles tank more damage, which is something that isn't too relevant most of the time because you almost never build these things, but it's not making me happy.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

I have a 2v2 team game happening on AWBW, and since it's high funds, there are a lot of air units, so both members of the opposing team built Missiles. The Missiles are trying their best to stop my air units, but in my 1v1, my opponent saw the need to build Fighters for support. In the other 1v1, my teammate just didn't build air units.

[@icantaim4sht836]

Missiles are a lot more useful in fog of war for surprise attacks from forests. They have a lot of vision range as well. In a normal match they rarely ever get to hit anything because air units can easily skip past their attack range. Unless you group a bunch of them together, they serve as nothing more than a minor deterrent. But by the time you have the money to buy them in bulk you're probably about to win the match anyways.

[@jacobmosovich]

I love this little map you put together for this series. I love it! Are you gonna make custom maps for every unit?

[@nitorishogiplayer3465]

Always thought the missile was bad because air units could easily move just outside its range and move in on the next turn and you don't have the speed to match them. PS I'm so happy to see unit analyses videos from you. Looking forward to seeing more!

[@MaquinaRara1]

In DoR they actually are buffed. They increased their movement to 5, just like missiles And they also increased their range to 2-6, but mantained their same vision to 5. This means that they may need another unit to reveal that extra range for complete coverage. Then again they received a stealth nerf in that airports are considered hiding spots for air units and ground units too, and the only way to reveal a hiding unit is to either run right next to it or by using a flare unit (which is an awesome unit as it reveals all hiden units except subs in a 3*3 firing radius). You are guaranteed to make flare units in DoR, so pairing them with missiles means that those airports are useless. Another thing about missiles that are worth noting, they are excellent at choke points, not for their ability to hold it, but as a deterrent for air units to break through, make a meat wall and you can sit there for days...if you wish to follow that strategy though. And if there is a single contested airport, you may spend lots of resources to try to take it and hold it, or you can let the enemy take it and park a missile unit within range, the enemy will not make air units, so you save on anti airs, and when you build a large force, you can push through without any useless units in the way (if you take the airport, all your anti airs become obsolete by that point, so it is better to invest on tanks) Remember that a single missile cost about 1.5 anti airs, so if you manage to save at least creating 2 anti airs, you become more efficient in resources.

[@caellanmurphy4751]

its 3-6 in days but their movement is correct

[@gameknight504]

Rewatching this video I though about something what if missiles could immediately fire on any air units that fly through its attack space. Though to balance this out its damage has to be cut by a third of what its supposed to whenever air units try to fly towards it or across it.

[@Prodawg]

New series moment

[@jasonsoliva6678]

I use infantry/ground units to blockade enemy air units from the Missile's vulnerable minimum range area. I think that's the most immersion breaking strategy in Advance Wars but I like to explain it in universe as infantry/ ground units scouting out aerial threats and radioing warnings about enemy aircraft movements.

[@Emanuelmartins69]

I like missiles over all, what I like is the fact that it gives a strong antiair presence in crowded places, so bombers get recked

[@flukenchrome9259]

Title should be: Unit Review:~Missile Chan~

[@SuperFlamethrower]

Now do ballista in WarGroove. The ballista in WarGroove can hit ground units, but damage is much lower than trebuchet, it's longer ranged, and it's also less expensive than trebuchet. Versus air units damage is extreme; at full health it kills any air unit except dragon in 1 hit and leaves dragon with 15% HP. The same as missile except you don't have to waste your turn if there aren't air units in range.

[@proxy4620]

The missile knows where it is And it knows where you are, too

[@Tvboy777]

I think the worst thing is the range, even worse than being speed 4 on tires. Every air unit has 6 speed or more, meaning they can always stop right outside a missiles effective range and still be in range to attack the missile next turn. The missile really needed to be range 1-7 and have treads to even be worth considering over an Anti-Air. They are good fun as pre-deployed units on vs maps though as a way to have pre-captured airports that can't be used until the missile unit gets taken out thought, that's the coolest use I've seen for them so far.

[@stevengu1253]

Yes, Missiles should be buffed. The buff should be to let the missiles move and fire. They would become much more viable against air units and worth the high cost.

[@TheNezperdian]

Great work!

[@ksmoove12able]

Things they could do: 1. increase movement to 6. 2. allow it to shoot on direct units with greatly reduced damage. 3. Keep all the same but allow to shoot during same turn. 4. Don't do anything because it's a good meme.

[@Kohchu]

Personally, I think they should've thought back to how Super Famicom Wars did it. In that game, you had Anti-Air, Flak Cannons, and Missiles. Each operating as basically an anti-aerial counterpart to Tank, Artillery and Rockets. The Flak Cannon in particular was a wonderful unit, thanks to it being on treads, and since it was indirect/anti-air; it actually fared decently well against Bombers and Copters, since they were easy to position, and strong if positioned well. The Missiles are slow, but they are designed to be, since the general idea, is you would have a few Flaks and Anti-Air on the field to cover them while they move into position. For whatever reason, Advance Wars did away with the Flak Cannon, as I guess they felt it was redundant. But in doing so, it left a massive hole in the Anti-Air counterplay; which is why Air Units in Advance Wars reign supreme so well. Having that extra coverage made it a bit trickier to use Aircraft in Super Famicom Wars; even if you had access to the all around Striker to help out.

[@Richforce1]

Idea for an Advance Wars trivia video, a lot of the army variants of units and mech weapons are based on real world military hardware often used by the nations they are flavored after. For example the Orange Star Mech heavy weapon is based on the M20A1B1 Super Bazooka the Americans used in WW2 while Blue Moon's is based on the Russian RPG-7 rocket propelled grenade launcher. I think it would be cool if (after doing the research) you could explain the origins of the allied nations variants (Black Hole's are supposed to be high tech and alien looking so there are no real world origins there.

[@MisterGrittle]

I guess they made recons deal less damage to missiles the same reason missiles have a large vision range: to make them more independent than other indirect units.

[@silosneeded]

This one is very cool, it change their weapons based on passenger's type.

[@ximbabwe0228]

The machine gun resistance may be because the missile base vehicle looks like some kind of APC but the rockets looks like it's just a flatbed truck

[@broyOfThisGym]

Mang (egg) spam is my favourite strategy

[@vicio19995]

6:12 My bird brain flying vs a missile for the 5 th time : you understimate my power

[@brandonwilliams6119]

I’m looking forward to this new series where Mangs educates everyone while Nell’s Theme is playing basically doing her job for her lol.

[@Jamieboi1989]

mangs for orange stars new intel based CO lol 🤣

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@Jamieboi1989 Y E S

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

So would put them on treads but not change their movement range, just to give them that little bit of extra mobility on plains and forests, which I think would balance them out nicely and give you a little bit extra flexibility to get them into position. Also, I would create an anti-air Mech variant, that is an infantry armed with a MANPADS like FIM-92s for Orange Star and SA-25s for Blue Moon. They'd be called MPADS, cost 4000, have only one shot, inflict 100% base damage on copters and 60% base damage on planes, and the same mobility and defense as a Mech: the idea is that you would deploy one of these near your Missile, which would allow you to counter-attack against a Bomber or Helicopter that attacked your Missile unless your opponent invested in extra units to take out the MPADS unit as well. I think giving you a cheap option to defend your Missile that forced your opponent to either sacrifice a unit or invest extra would make Missiles a lot more economic.

[@truegamer_007]

Can't wait for the Neotanks video. 😏

[@xhoidlostblade3856]

Pretty sure there's one already

[@rosaparks6479]

@@xhoidlostblade3856 thats the joke

[@PyrelordPazuzu]

Reasons missiles are worth it: 1. You don't need to Gacha for them 2. They cute 3. 0:55-0:57

[@ColdEmperor]

Someday we’ll get to infantry and you’ll tell us they’re trash. 10/10, will build again.

[@memelurd7341]

I feel that usually the best way to use a missile is to get it as soon as possible and hide it in a forest

[@cichoriumintybus4637]

I just like to here your thoughts. Glad I found you throught the recent influx regarding the AW influx. Have a good time mangs. :) I think, if you like to continue the series in general, you might just go through the unit list from bottom to top and then go into the next building, like barracks - airport - harbor.

[@tumbleweedanimations]

Great idea for a new series, think it would be even better with some graphics like your CO tier videos. Maybe give it a tier for some different stats like Movement, Damage, Versatility, etc? I think that'd really make this series (loved the detail put into preparing the units and map!)

[@khezoboi]

I feel like if they gave it the same buff they gave to the battleships in days of ruin, (The ability to fire after moving) it would increase the amount of missiles produced.

[@LavaCaptain-yf6iu]

I’ve always thought of the Missile as not a Missile but a Portable Watchtower

[@Blue-mr7fe]

I belive that missles should be buffed in movement rather than range since grit exists possibly with the movement of a recon its min range is already a death sentence and should be more forgiving by being able to move it away from danger

[@caellanmurphy4751]

days of ruin gave it 1 extra movement

[@ShadowdaHedgie11]

The fact that missles don’t need a recon is a pretty big boon, as well as the extra defence against vehicle machine guns, although that usually only comes into play with recons. If I were to give it a boost… first off, I’d lower it’s minimum range to two. Secondly, I’d put it on treads. I was considering making it able to shoot upon another vehicle types, maybe ships and subs, but that might make it a bit overpowered considering it can shoot on anything within it's own vision range.

[@danielgibson3422]

They could give it the functionality of the DoR flare if they wanted, also boost it's move to 5

[@ShadowdaHedgie11]

@@danielgibson3422 I think giving that to a different unit was a better idea, really. Just seems like it wouldn’t work too well, Missles have a specific use and I don’t think that should be messed with by adding a utility use.

[@YaminoSeigi]

another overlooked units by IS at the time considering SAM missiles are very effective in recent war. Could have option of increased range but rendering the unit immobile though the metagame will end up to be war of attrition in the end

[@exsurgemechprints2671]

Wow. As someone who tried creating an AW game many years ago, I had to look at damage charts. And this fact about missiles vs machine guns still completely went over me.