Advanced Use of the ALTERED SCALE | You'll Hear It

The Altered Scale (Noun) - A seven-note scale that is a dominant scale where all non-essential tones have been altered.
If you didn't know that, or how to slam that scale into your solos and improv, you need to check out this clip from Peter Martin and Adam Maness.
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*not to be confused with the film, Altered States*

[@bbossin]

"we're not theory nerds" Proceeds to nerd out on theory. I proceed to subscribe.

[@adammaness]

Yeah, who are we trying to fool with that?!

[@DavidSVega-cu1dv]

I’ve honestly never heard people talk about piano like this. I’m relatively new at piano and felt like I hit a wall in playing. But it’s so encouraging to see that there’s so much more to get into and this will probably eternally be true. Really great show, thank you!

[@pianopeter]

thanks David, your comment means a lot, so glad the discussion resonated 🙏🏼🎹👊🏼

[@JamesSpeiser]

music is an infinite rabbit hole...find your own sound, your own style and search out what you love and what rings true with you

[@nicholascowan1731]

Impossible to hit a wall with sound and music

[@presleyandbandit9582]

David S Vega, I feel you and I play guitar! This helped me get over a big wall. Thumbs up!

[@karenbenjey1]

@@nicholascowan1731 How about a wall of sound?

[@blazelarson1427]

Pianists have a way to simplify the hard stuff. Good explanations and examples.

[@helvarthered]

Because the piano is laid out in such an intuitive way. It’s an excellent tool for learning and expressing harmony. I was a longtime guitar player who starting using the piano as a learning tool, and now three years later I’m a jazz pianist. It’s such a beautiful instrument and I think every musician could benefit from spending some time with it.

[@themennissvids]

It's the "Flat Everything" scale to me. You take the 1. Then you flat everything else.

[@ethanmcintosh4979]

That's a nice way of thinking of it, but I sort of think of it like this, kinda simple. Like they were saying (I think) you take the 1 in a major scale, and raise it a half step. Exactly what you were saying, but I guess in more simple terms 🤣.

[@themennissvids]

​@@ethanmcintosh4979 I've also used that formulation (major scale with a sharp root) before. They both produce the same interval relations between the steps in the scale, but "1, flat everything else" preserves the 1-1 root relationship. and lets you list the intervals relative to the major scale more easily. 1, b2, b3 ,b4, b5, b6, b7 tells you more about the scale at first glance than #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Lydian is Locrian with a flat root, though. ;)

[@Breakbeat90s]

i read flat earth scale lmao

[@Rain593]

I've always thought of it as a root with every normal scale interval flatted. 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7

[@jman12849]

or first 4 notes are a half/whole diminished scale, the last 3 are whole tone scale notes

[@jarediledundee]

I tend to agree. And I see a Dom7#9 chord as being built in 4ths (quartal)-1; b4(maj3 enharmonic); b7; #9

[@ratrindade3617]

Never thought of being this way, nice

[@AllegroFPS]

Thats a good way to learn it, but the whole reason its called the altered scale is because its got all the alterations that a dominant 7 chord would normally have. Its got the b9, #9, b11 (major 3rd) #11/b5, #5/b13, and b7. Its also called the super locrian scale.

[@rdpatterson2682]

The promise of the internet and KZbin is realized in every episode with you guys. It’s really fantastic. Thank you.

[@honeychilerider]

Is it weird that this was all completely over my head and I enjoyed the heck out of it anyway?

[@OpenStudioJazz]

Not weird.

[@urzathehappy72]

Thats the fun of music theory. Whats wierd, to me, is when ppl try to learn an instrument and stick ti the boring basics then get bored and never play again. Keep pushing urself and come back to this video after u get some more knowledge and rewatch it! Ull get there

[@honeychilerider]

@@urzathehappy72 I hear ya man, I had a band and one time I had this new jam and I said, "Ok and during this part we're gonna take the whole thing down from C to Bb to G and then to C an octave below while going to half time, over the course of four measures and then go into the new motif." And the bass player looked at me and said, "... Why?" It was a bummer.

[@nils8584]

this is how i generally listen to the lex fridman podcast

[@ganazby]

As a guitar player, it’s great to hear this explained from a piano perspective. Superlative content. Thanks!

[@JazzyFizzleDrummers]

Shout out to Peter! I used to take lessons from that guy in undergrad.

[@doomboogie315]

These discussions are great! Please don't change a thing. Learning so much.

[@pianopeter]

will do, thanks for watching

[@michaelbates625]

On one of Tony Winston’s altered scale tutorials, he described missing out the tri tone as a way of helping the sound of a run down the keyboard. Shout out to Tony, another great jazz piano channel. And by the way Adam, you won...!

[@crazyace88]

I said on another video earlier this month that Peter is probably the better player of the 2 but on this one yes Adam you won lol. Great job to both of you haha

[@pianopeter]

@@crazyace88 yeah but I beat him down in Ping Pong 2 days ago 🏓 🎹

[@kturn5953]

Michael Bates Check out Kenny Barrons rendition of Sail Away! He uses that exact scale minus the tritone (F#), most often as a descending run multiple times in his solo. Great to hear in context :)

[@michaelbates625]

kturn5953 nice tip, thanks for that.

[@andrewboldi47]

love the altered scale battle in the intro

[@petrus7977]

ok so the 2 approaches are: -dim until the 3°/whole tone until the 8° -melodic minor of Db The main difference is really obvious, but still very important and they didnt mentioned it. One scale is constructed starting from the TONIC (but its made of 2 scales) and the other is just melodic minor, but HALF STEP UP the tonic.

[@pianopeter]

yep. don't know why we didn't mention that within 17 minutes!!!!

[@alexandrawestcott7654]

Fro some reason I’ve been struggling with the second way - I’m a classical pianist and teacher so no idea why - I think because had various minor versions suggested. Anyhoo, love love the dim/whole tone description. Definitely easier for me!

[@ryandigiovanni2724]

@@pianopeter pin his comment

[@petrus7977]

@@pianopeter just stating the obvious here! Fantastic video man, golden info! In my case, I find it easier to think the mel.min+1 in some keys and dis.+wholetone in others, so its a win/win to me :D

[@KyleHohn]

Lean Drusi I think of it as: Major scale degrees 1 and 3 and the pentatonic scale of the #4/b5

[@deanbarrett5953]

I have to say, as a relatively new student of jazz piano, this channel and Peter Martin and Adam Maness' videos in particular have been a huge source of inspiration to my understanding and developing knowledge of jazz harmony as well as a massive influence on my piano playing in the last year. I've been scouring KZbin for years learning from many great players, but there's something special here about how these two guys talk about and demonstrate some of these concepts. I think my own improvement has been a direct result of following along meticulously to all of these podcasts and lessons. I'll be diving into the online course soon. I can't thank you enough!

[@OpenStudioJazz]

We will see you at openstudiojazz.com! Happy practicing.

[@deangoritz9625]

What a way to start the show, instead of having your 5 second intro chat, have the subject be the 2 of you's (haha),ping ponging, I like it

[@pianopeter]

we play a lot of actual ping pong as well, maybe we'll throw 5 minutes of that in!!! thx for watching

[@deangoritz9625]

@@pianopeter nice, I bet your an ace and very competitive

[@margateswede]

One of the most important things for me is hearing where I want to go . I’m not a pianist but hearing how you guys traded off altered runs helps me absorb it, hear it in my mind and is super helpful as a guitar player. A lot of videos focus on how to play it and resolve it. These kind of discussions help you to feel it as flavour in it’s own right. Great stuff. Thanks!

[@donaldenox6332]

This I think is the first video I may have watched all the way. I was looking and searching for awesome teachers on KZbin. I'm self taught 3.5 years. I've played the bass guitar for 35 years. I'm learning lots from guys like you both. I will give you both 7stars ten maybe. Please please keep doing what you doing it really does mean a lot. Your energy and emotions show about playing and teaching others the skills and techniques it takes to walk this journey that's filled with many shall we say scenic views..!!

[@dangelobenjamin]

You two are real jazz pianist gems. Love the advanced youtube episodes

[@erikbarrett85]

"we're not theory nerds" *Proceed to theory TF out*

[@OpenStudioJazz]

They can't help it...

[@erikbarrett85]

@@OpenStudioJazz 🙏🙏🙏🤣🤣🤣

[@erikbarrett85]

@@OpenStudioJazz good video y'all

[@TracksWithDax]

I spent a lot of time listening to podcast. Really amazing and actually a little bit more enriching to be able to watch you guys do it live!

[@adammaness]

Thanks, Dave!

[@jazzyoutfit6670]

hi guys, concerning your discussion at 3:00 - in fact that's why the altered scale is sometimes called 'the diminished whole-tone scale'. Best, Andy

[@marike1100]

Exactly. Was surprise the gentleman on the left wasn't hip to that. He was looking at the other guy like he was speaking Chinese 😂.

[@rillloudmother]

@@marike1100 try talking to folks about chords half the time they just give blank stares.

[@gauthierostervall4849]

@@marike1100 such great actors!

[@pianopeter]

@@marike1100 我实际上是在说汉语

[@pianopeter]

@@rillloudmother thank you - Adam's been giving lots of blank stares lately, I thought it was me!

[@wmhough]

Love this, guys. stumbled across this and it's making my day(s). As a guitarist, using this during my work lunch breaks (without guitar) is giving my mind a workout visualising the patterns on the guitar. Can't wait to put your ideas into practice in the evenings and further into my teaching.

[@pianopeter]

thanks for your words, glad it resonated

[@wmhough]

@@pianopeter ... like an overtone dominant scale! Keep up the great work. ;-)

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

Fellow 🎸 ist. Just for fun got my guitar out and worked out the the H W dim.W tone alt scale out in several places. Starting at C on 8th fret on E 6 string..It was fun to do.

[@arrowfitzgibbon7775]

ad in the middle: "this season, escape winter in a cadillac!" bitch, i'm watching jazz theory videos at 12:30 pm on a tuesday, i don't think that's gonna happen

[@pianopeter]

THIS IS AWESOME!!! "bitch, i'm watching jazz theory videos at 12:30 pm on a tuesday" = GOLD

[@stevekellar1403]

you two guys are so great and you deserve all the praise ! I'm really learning so much and i thank you both ! just great !

[@WhistlebirdInfinity]

Y'all deserve all possible stars! You are both really easy to understand. I am coming from a background of first learning rock and roll and some jazz on guitar, but then on piano and piano accordion studying many different "world music" traditions. So when you explain peculiar modes, it is speaking to me loud and clear. I truly appreciate y'all joking around and improvising back and forth as it keeps me relaxed and it's non threatening. I got one piano lesson as a kid with a dude who scared the crap out of me and so that ruined sitting next to someone at the piano pointing at the page etc...this is really a blessing to have You two positive people without a shred of arrogance or self importance focussing us all onto the deep and mystical thing that is Music, while being in the comfort of our own homes. Wishing both of you all the best, Tim PS. Have y'all thought about including stylistic traditions like Tango piano in you podcasts?

[@GlennMichaelThompson]

Oh... thanks for pointing out the use of a triad pair. This is something I'm working on and using the triad pair to get an altered sound fits extremely well. Triad pairs & hexatonics would be a great topic for you guys to cover. There's so many melodic and harmonic applications you could probably do a few videos as a small series. Just a thought. Thanks!

[@kennethrichardson1946]

As a piano player - I listen to you guys all the time during my very long commutes while driving to my gigs. Very informative and you help to keep me searching and growing as a musician. Cheers Guys 🎹😎

[@laverdad8915]

THIS IS PHENOMENAL MORE OF THESE YO! GREAT CONVOS

[@egassi1027]

You guys are amazing as well as this video. I did 3 years at Humber College Jazz Piano and your format is more informative and easier to understand. Two guys bouncing ideas off each other rather than 1 teacher with handouts and a blackboard this is much better and more interactive. Well explained and easy to follow. Perhaps a format colleges should consider! Thank you for your expertise and talent. Eugene

[@mikenelson276]

This is so spot on and amazing!! Love to hear all the insider jazzer jokes. You guys are incredible- thank you!

[@robertpowell9618]

You guys are amazing. I am thoroughly impressed by everything that you guys do. Please do not stop your terrifically beautiful love for this amazing joy...music!!!

[@jspain61]

Absolutely glad I ran across these guys! Peter, man...Your the man as I saw some of your other posts!! Got to get in the course!!!

[@OpenStudioJazz]

Come on over to Open Studio!

[@georgemckenzie2525]

Props to the lighted keyboards Thank you for what brings you joy

[@ailanfeldner4353]

Peter's explanation hit- I was able to picture every altered scale in my head, never have had that mental clarity with something new. Another great video

[@pianopeter]

thanks Ailan - yeah, I always try and find several ways to think/hear these concepts, then run with the one that resonates best with you

[@pablojlascano8322]

One of the best channels out there, always lots of useful stuff and practical too. Keep it up!

[@certifiedcoverboy]

thanks peter, feels good to know i’m not the only person who sees the whole tone/diminished stuff (everywhere)(all the time) love the podcast !

[@draviddecoteau]

I think of the scale like “7th major scale ” eg if I was to play this scale in D. Go down a half step to the 7th degree of the the scale (so C#/Db major scale) but instead of using the 7th as the first note you use the original key in this example D

[@vazap8662]

I’ve been through many lessons that use the 1/2 tone up melodic minor approach, nothing wrong with that. But I’ve also been asking around if I was alone in approaching them from same tone diminished instead. This seems to address that perfectly! Thank you❤ I love Adam and Peter to bits, am full of respect and gratitude to both for all the things I’ve learned from them over the years. Hearing these guys have different opinions on a question I’ve struggled with for a while, is both enlightening and comforting.

[@anthonygasso]

I'm glad I found this channel. i love this piano-podcast concept.

[@kevinsavo718]

I love that whole tone with the b9#9 addition way of seeing it

[@GlennMichaelThompson]

Great topic! I really enjoyed this. I've heard and thought of the altered scale a few ways... the 7th mode of the jazz/ascending melodic minor aka super locrian. Then there's the diminished whole tone scale, and also known as the altered dominant scale. Hearing you guys bouncing ideas back and forth helped to solidify these aspects of an often misunderstood topic. So THANKS guys! Keep up these great videos. Best regards from Montreal.

[@CWBella]

One of my fave scales!

[@elianmusic7452]

I'm just absolutely taken back .. this is free this feels wrong you guys are so good to us. Such good content, entertaining, great guys and great players, adding to us all thank you, sincerely

[@NoName-yp6ow]

Thank you very much, this is very clear and helpful !

[@fernandoperiera4463]

As a classically trained composer and jazz head you bring great theoretical insight in a practical, and accessible manner. Kudos to you both. By the way I'm a guitarist picking great new approaches to the instrument.

[@gauthierostervall4849]

Lovely! I would really appreciate having visual cues on what you are saying. For example when you mention triad pairs, it's over too quickly and I can't quite catch which pairs you play on that chord. If you flashed an image of the chord and the triads though... I think you could use the video part or KZbin more ;)

[@danielmorales6151]

Really enjoyed this video. Thank you. I enjoy talking about notes and melody and invention

[@future62]

Lot of great ideas here for practicing and breaking up regular scales too.

[@jarbasgoulartdecastro9104]

Yeah,Adam and Peter !!!! Thanks!!!!

[@brucejeric6701]

You’ve got an excellent point. Thank you. Maybe though it has to do with our ages and what schools we come from. I know I always thought of whole- time diminished and only recently started thinking about melodic minor, just to have another tool. I’ve heard many accomplished pianist explain it both ways. So whatever works.

[@jameslemoine3938]

Love these guys!!!

[@presleyandbandit9582]

This is great! Thank you!

[@merttalay9702]

wooow It really opens my mind this kind of using melodic minor,altered and other modes What a magic!!!!

[@pianopeter]

🙏🏼

[@caliskaterdrummer]

I loved the intro... definitely original what you have here.❤️

[@exat775]

Great Video! Great teaching and example!

[@josemolina959]

Fantastic gentleman! Love music theory, you inspire me to learn more. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🎼🎶🎵🎹🎶🎵🎼

[@TommyCosterMusic]

So good guys, thank you. 🙏

[@lucaslieberman7625]

The dynamic between you two is so interesting haha!

[@2001tford]

I was taught to find an altered scale by flattening every note of a major scale except the root. For instance, in C major play C, D becomes Db, E becomes Eb, F becomes E, G becomes Gb, A becomes Ab, B becomes Bb.

[@yeahuri4724]

This is the only altered video that I understand musically and theoretically.

[@adammaness]

Me too, lol.

[@johnmcnichol8330]

You guys are great!

[@jazzyoutfit6670]

hey - at 12:45 you are getting to my favorite subject: the 'altered 6-note scale'! (that's how i love to call it in my nerdiness). in fact, i compose the scale by introducing three 2- note cells (i call them modules): [b7-1] / [b9-#9] / [3-b13]. each module has its spezific resolutions into the tonic chord. by adding the 3 modules i get the altered 6-note scale. years ago i designed an entire software program on that topic. best, andy

[@MrJellyton]

Interesting way to think about it. Nice!

[@lukasalihein]

Call it the Altered Hexatonic, sounds more impressive and easier to say =)

[@jacquelamontharenberg]

Just stumbled across your video pod cast on one of my favorite jazz sounds, the altered scale. Great way to present this scale. Even though I am a tenor player, I got a lot out of it. Back to the woodshed to work on it in every key.... thanks guys. BTW, you are both bad ass piano players.

[@Blondesax]

I think I like the 7th mode of the melodic minor way of thinking better because I've already got a concept of those triads and seventh chords built in. But I like the partly diminished / partly whole tone mentality as well because it's easy to kinda decide on the fly whether I'm gonna play the octatonic or altered scale depending on my whims.

[@JeffreyChilton]

Great ideas thank you!

[@antibalas79]

great stuff man! Learnt so much from this. It seems like most the secrets lie in the altered/ melodic minor!

[@lokiop345]

I love your videos lads!

[@atereolusola2497]

Love this

[@joskun]

Show yourself mighty oathkepper! Love this podcast!

[@ivonsmith2024]

nice back n forths and great variable explanations of an enigmatic scale (well, not ACTUALLY the enigmatic scale) - thanks

[@carsonsmelliott]

7:14 sheeeesh 🔥

[@ranaair]

This a dope podcast right here

[@Panzer731]

This video made me really want to get into music theory for good. Amazing format.

[@elianmusic7452]

Oh wow, the ending me tear up, i don't know it was very sweet and the playing tugged at me. Happy to have found you guys, cheers

[@JasonLeonPike]

Love it! New fan.

[@jazzyoutfit6670]

others call it the 'super-locrian scale'. if you procede as with any other 7-note scale by choosing the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th degree of it, you'll get a minor7 flat5 chord, and the scale is locrian with a flat 4th - a scale that has nothing but minor and diminished intervals (b2, b3, b4, b5, b6, b7). now, the flat4 seduces us to hear it as a major 3rd which makes it a dominant scale. yesss, i'm a theory nerd, and i love it! Andy

[@overtonesnteatime198]

Instant sub guys. Great content

[@florianolebinski730]

I have the exact same thought process. Diminished + whole tone scale bundled into one. That's how I think of it to this day.

[@88KeysMan]

First video I’ve watched of you guys. I subbed and will be looking out for more content.

[@OpenStudioJazz]

Welcome!

[@ricaard]

I'll be using this on my guitar... and my sax... and my clarinet.... and.....

[@MrKrasean]

Ha! Cool show and also cool to see a Deneen Pottery mug on the table; I used to work for them so there's a chance I made that cup!

[@marike1100]

Quoting Daahoud is a great way to beginning Friday evening. FWIW, I also learned altered scales as dimished whole tone over at Manhattan School of Music.😉 BTW, the standard "Invitation" is a great for getting the altered scale in your ear, altered dominants are everywhere. Great show guys, thanks.

[@MrJellyton]

Love those tunes!

[@deldia]

Nice presentational format with the 2 keyboards.

[@mologban360]

So glad y’all finally got the midi keyboard

[@pianopeter]

progress....

[@PedalScience]

Recommended, clicked, subbed

[@juanpia7913]

haha great intro! and excellent episode as usual

[@resontone]

Some pretty flavorful resolutions at 12:16 and 14:10

[@joniwhite-keys5899]

Dude, you guys are sick.

[@AntKneeLeafEllipse]

Such good players man. Those runs are super sick, and I appreciate you breakin down for the little guy (me). I feel like I never know what fingerings to use for those, and I just always get tied up. Comin from guitar I'd say finger technique is what I have the most trouble with.

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

Watching again..just notice how fast and continuous the desending scale is..thought I'd try it. My speed was about 80 percent but fairly accurate. of course C F G alt scales are almost identical .as far as the pattern goes.

[@Shafer.Jesse.Sandbox]

I would love to see a video similar to this about -7b5 chords!

[@rolandgerard6064]

Great!

[@dukavicente4136]

Thank you for the great lesson.Can you guys make some examples of Altered Scale on top of 9/13?

[@med3484]

I understand the melodic minor foundation of the altered scale but ive locked in the scale by thinking of it as a half step down scale starting on C. IE it’s a B scale starting on C.

[@lukasalihein]

Ye Olde "Sharpe Roote" as they used to say.

[@lukasalihein]

@@jazzdorefree194 Calt doesn't have a B or G natural in it , and it does have an Ab and Db, so the "spanish lick" technique your describing doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something? If it's too fast just slow down the playback speed - and they literally have a keyboard graphic with the notes being played lit up in green so I sure can't complain about it being too opaque. Lastly, I'm pretty sure Charlie Parker said what he meant and meant what he said; in both sentences you quote, the critical concept he is emphasizing is that you have to LIVE and EXPERIENCE life and NOT merely practice/study things. This is a concept all sorts of jazz greats have articulated through the decades. Yes, practice is important and is of course a crucial part of that experience, but changing what Bird said in that manner implies to me that perhaps you didn't understand it in the first place. Regardless, thanks for sharing your thoughts, it gave me some things to think about.

[@lukasalihein]

@@jazzdorefree194 Hey man - thanks for the response and explanations. Certainly no offense was intended at any point so I'm glad you gave me the benefit of the doubt there. Sounds we like we pretty much agree on all of this actually, and it's mostly due to the nature of the medium that we seem not to. Regardless - I DO think you have to actually have some interests outside of just study/practice music to be a great musician; you have to have a strong sense of personal aesthetics (whether that's necessarily conscious is another topic) and this is usually developed outside of a purely academic setting, for example. Drugs, however, need not (and probably should not) be a part of that equation. Of course, I've been playing/practicing at least 20hrs a week for about 20 years now, and all of that is still probably not enough, so yeah...practicing is absolutely critical.

[@tylerwilliams1052]

Big shout out to the oath keepers hahahaha. I died. That’s hilarious I wish I got to hang out with people like you.

[@RicardoMarlowFlamenco]

So in the beginning they talk around an important aspect that we Spanish guitar players are deep into. They talk about the tension there that wants go somewhere then do examples that all resolve to F. They discuss F major versus F minor resolutions for example. Here is the thing, which I don’t understand why it is simply not more obvious. If you think of C mixolydian and create or exploit the tensions there, it is again a dominant type sound in F major. If you use C mixolydian but incorporate the b9 and b6 you end up with Dominant sound in F minor. So regardless if you resolve to F major or F minor, this would be messing around with the dominant function of F minor tonality. So the altered thing there, is the same as this last one with added b5….basically the F phrygian resolution if such a “Key” existed. So the C alt is like Dominant function to F Phrygian. In spain we think of the true Dominant as the flat 2 (Gb lydian dominant) and this must resolve to F major with flat 9 often voiced to keep the modal color. In fact the alt scale has all the F phrygian notes inside minus the root itself. These gentleman play excellent examples but never end that way, and it is not just them, most musicians don’t think this way. It is a simple concept that is avoided, I guess, because a “phrygian tonality” is not thought of as a legit “thing”. But in all honesty, this is exactly where this altered thing is coming FROM and why it works so nicely. IMO.

[@costasyiannourakos6963]

Very interesting harmonic functional debate!

[@bfree4real]

Man you guys are crazy good. You are theory nerds tho lol. I love this video and I’m subscribed 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽

[@glennmerritt2202]

What piano software do you guys use? You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the knowledge.

[@ljpimentel]

I literally subscribed after 30 seconds

[@OpenStudioJazz]

Welcome!