After Tibetan Buddhism, What Remains?

[@CanalJnana]

Thank you for your video. You nailed it when you said "the destruction of Buddhism is coming from the inside". Nowadays, I'd rather meditate and study the Mahayana sutras and other Buddhist classical texts with fellow lay people or on my own than seek monks/lamas and having to be part of a whole structure that fosters worshipping people and toxic/abusive behavior instead of truly encouraging people to turning inward through study and reflection. Buddhism will definitely need a reform if it wants to survive in the West.

[@signe8321]

You primarily mean Tibetan Buddhisme?

[@satyakrishnamurti]

Very well said!!

[@fingerprint5511]

The Pali Canon is right view.

[@ttselha64]

You may not have been truly Buddhist if you can’t just stop. You need to do a deep study of karma. Also, study of guru yoga is necessary.

[@Sakura-ko9gh]

If you feel like your guru or lamas is abusing you then read the great lord milarepa and naropa life story, then you will know, through abuse eons of your previous life bad karma or sin will vanished instantly so that your guru will make it easier for you to get enlightenment cuz all of your bad karma are vanished completely, it’s like your mom whipped you to study hard so that one day you will become a successful person, it’s same like this , that’s the belief or faith that you need to have

[@Buddhistmalas]

Thank you again as always Tahlia, yes I concur 100%- especially with concerns about Dzongsar doubling down with the "poison gaslighting" talks. I'm glad you still meditate, I do too- The Buddha as you recall, wasn't a Buddh *ist* he would be happy with our exit and cult-ure trapping, and yet still practicing.

[@squamish4244]

As Rumi said, "Fool's gold exists because real gold exists."

[@sebastiaoedsonmacedo7950]

Respect for your experience, sincerity, courage. Helpful to hear you.

[@KaaLee8]

Longchenpa said that in this age of decline, sentient beings have the highest level of emotions and are therefore very fragile. The master must show the utmost loving care and love to the disciple, speaking in the gentlest manner and language. Constantly criticizing and scolding disciples will make them tired and lose confidence. -Dzongsar Jamyang khyentse Rinpoche❤ As long as people don't know,that outer appearances are a reflection of their own mind, they keep judging outer appearances.. Been with the tibetan practise for 16 years and never experienced any harm from the gurus. And i met many of them ,including HH Karmapa ❤

[@jerryalder2878]

Which Karmapa did you meet ?

[@KaaLee8]

@jerryalder2878 it doesn't really matter, but it was HH 17th Orgyen Trinley Dorje. 🙏💜💚🪷✨️🌙💎🌈 Also Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche,Kyabje Tenga Rinpoche, Kalu Rinpoche, Mingyur Rinpoche, Khandro Rinpoche and some other high lamas. In the end, of course everyone you encounter becomes your guru and this is so amazing and wondrous 🌈💎🌙✨️💚💜🙏

[@kunchoktashii]

You dont need to abandon the dharma because you got fooled by a fake guru,biggest mistake ever

[@alakso777]

I spent 15 years in Tibetan Buddhism but left a couple of years ago because of Guru devotion, along with all the rites and rituals and making very little progress. Following my spiritual intuition I now study the Dhamma with Buddhadasa Bhikkhu and my practice is going wonderfully well as I’ve tasted the fruit of my practice. 🙏🏼

[@jerryalder2878]

Thank you for this talk and for writing 'Fallout, recovering from abuse in Tibetan Buddhism' which is excellent. I am no longer in a sangha but continue to practice each day. The website 'Healing our sanghas ' might be helpful for those involved with (or leaving) one 'branch' of the Karma Kagyu tradition.

[@rustydavis5350]

the buddhas original teachings recorded in the pali canon could still be of use to you. The Theravada tradition doesn’t seem to be tainted by the tantric sexual aspects that are in Tibetan Buddhism. They seem to revere celibacy more.

[@vinnysing1324]

Hahaha Theravada school also have many fake monks, such as in Thailand. Monks in disguise only. At night go out look for prostitute. As long as there are humans there are problems. The Buddha Dharma is the true teachings. If you are searching for a Guru, please spend time investigating him.

[@traceycatherall2759]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I found this helpful. Makes me wonder if it is possible for a group to work together without a power imbalance. I'll continue on my own, no harm, help others and watch your mind. Peace

[@Naturallyopinionated]

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter and for being so honest. It's quite a relief to hear a fellow westerner talking about this matter, as there are very few of us who are even honest with ourselves regarding this particular topic🙂. Just want to drop a comment on Dalai Lama. He's connected to some of the fishiest powerful people in the world, to key corrupt politicians, and he seems to be indoctrinated by western science, to the point that some of his books start questioning Buddha's teachings, like in "the universe in an atom" book, which seems and feels off. I wouldn't put him in the category of "a gem" just yet. Too much smelly stuff happens around him. So just because he's old and warm and fuzzy by appearance, he should still be under the same scrutiny as all the rest who seem good on the outside but have weird fishy stuff going on around them. Thank you.

[@MrKoyotesHome]

lol you cracks me up. Thank you for sharing.

[@JuanHugeJanus]

Karmapa Thaya Dorje,, Shangpa Rinpoche and Dupseng Rinpoche are genuine living diamonds and I could not say one bad thing about them, - even in my worst moments

[@antoniovasquez9946]

Isn’t one of them associated with the diamond way cult lead by the false Lama Oli?

[@JuanHugeJanus]

@@antoniovasquez9946 Did I mention him? But, he has helped thousands of people to the Dharma and he have done at least two very good things. 1) Made many good sanghas were people can thrive. 2) Understood that most people in the west needs shorter sadhanas in the beginning. If you had done only 1/1000 of work for the dharma as Lama Ole has I could value your criticism

[@antoniovasquez9946]

@@JuanHugeJanus I have 1/1000 of “lama” Oli’s bad deeds and I’m quite a libertine. Diamond way is a cult. I’d be suspicious of Thaye Dorje for having relations with a thug like Ole.

[@bridittebargeot2679]

​​@@JuanHugeJanusthe problem with Diamondway is that Lama Ole getting old and having dementia is creating a sort of power-vacuum where all kind of power-hungry narcs are starting to distort the teachings and interpreting his words to fit their narrative, before Lama Ole even passed away. I never saw or heard anything bad that Lama Ole did or said, but i saw a few disgusting and even downright criminal stuff going on in some of his Sanghas during the last few years. So sad! But hey, everything comes to an end, right? I trust Karmapa Thaye Dorje and Lama Ole, though.

[@vixen8052]

I left Diamond Way few years ago. What an awful bunch of brainwashed people. I can't listen to the Dharma teachings anymore Ole Nydahl created a monster..

[@Adam-vn7is]

I hav been practising tibetan buddhism for 20years since 14 years old. I symphatize with what the victims are going through, but i do have to say that this is the very reason why i still have not established a formal guru disciple relationship with any lama. Anyone who doesnt practise what they preach should not be respected. I hope Buddha Dharma still gives you sense of peace and joy.

[@Transcendent5961]

Religion is like training wheels on your first bike, at first it is very helpful to get you going on your Spiritual Journey but then at some point it becomes a drag and slows your progress. Much Love and Respect for your courage!

[@squamish4244]

Tibetan Buddhism brings a lot of baggage with it culturally. The Dalai Lama has also been very open about what he does and does not know, who he is and who he isn't. He doesn't claim to be anyone special. I did know a lama who was an amazing, extraordinary, wonderful person, utterly fearless and utterly at peace. He was also capable of things that shouldn't be possible. You hear these stories over and over in the Vedanta Hindu tradition as well. Same crap, bullshit, same honesty, same power. Same incredible people. And then we hear about all these people the world over who are of various denominations and various levels. So something really big is going on out there - or in here - even if we are having trouble coming to grips with it. We need neuroscience to come in and clean house. Which is already well along, actually, and with AI heading where it is, we will learn many things very quickly. If we don't get our shit together in the next few decades, we're toast as a civilization.

[@cjdevries]

I meditated in the room with Sogyal Rinpoche and I felt enormous peace - it was one of the deepest meditative experiences of my life. So clearly, despite his faults, he was a meditation master.

[@jaxchoyangyeshedorje8175]

You have discovered your own Buddha Nature, and opened the door to your own enlightenment

[@squamish4244]

@@jaxchoyangyeshedorje8175 It is in all of us. We are the guru. We are God. They all want us to know this. The lesson that masters want you to learn when they die is that now that they are gone, you must find the Buddha in yourself.

[@SunsetHoney615]

I have had similar experiences with Theravada monastics. I believe it was down to my own mental state and not because of the person I was in the room with. We create our own mind peaceful or otherwise.

[@squamish4244]

@@SunsetHoney615 Masters' spacious minds do create a field of open awareness, however. For instance, the stories about the Advaita master Neem Karoli Baba and the effect his mere presence had on countless people cannot be dismissed. "Windfall of Grace" on here is a documentary about him, and it is amazing.

[@25557813]

we are but no one is . the realization is that there has been no one ever. There is just the peace in the seeing. no sunshine or roses. @@squamish4244

[@jebroe860]

I was a beginner when I needed training wheels. The best teaching is that training wheels are needed till not thry are not needed. Like an Olympic biker things about his training while days ? nah. After crossing the river do I still need the boat. I do think of and i have gratitude to my teachers for bring authentic. I don't need them any more.

[@stuartwoud5505]

Just realised this video was put up a few years ago ! I feel we temper our ordinary mind with our wisdom mind we should not neglect either. I have been obviously influenced by a differing Buddhist tradition but there are many interesting parallels in your talk. The conspiracy stuff in world culture seems to have got bigger over the years like a persistent mould.

[@joansutton]

I always appreciate your videos.

[@michaelvirant1113]

You make a lot of sense and I am guessing you are of a similar age to myself with a lot of baggage to contend with when looking back at the foolish things we have done in our lives. In my search for meaning/being before I fall off the perch, I have recently discovered Buddhism ( done Tushita and Lam Rim at Kopan) but was never comfortable with the Guru devotion and prostrating myself to another man (or woman) unlike the younger devotees in my classes. Don't get me started on the six realms of reincarnation as depicted in the cycle of life mandalas. Your 3 references to embrace when meditating are all that one needs and I will resume my daily practice as a result of your video. Michael V (Williamstown Melbourne)

[@ymfg9004]

I have been involved with a Mahayana Buddhist tradition for many years, it is a beautiful way to live. I have never been abused by ordained Sangha. I don't understand lay practitioners ever entering a sexual relationship with a monk. Of course there will always be abusive people in powerful positions but we have to take responsibilty for ourselves. Why do women get into these situations?

[@Naturallyopinionated]

One last comment; There is another reason why one might benefit from having devotion. Not the blind kind, but the devotion coming from the heart towards the essence of the teacher. Everything we tell ourselves is a story, everything. So if one really believes and has devotion to the essence of what the teacher is, then one is actually personifying one's own true nature outwards towards that teacher. Meaning it becomes "visible" and in that way can catalyze you towards realisation. Maybe much faster than if one has to do it all on the internal level. I think there is a clear reasoning why one says that a teacher is crucial on ones path, cause this teacher, through your belief story, become the epitome of your own nature, until you can bring it into yourself and not project it outwards. The danger here is of course, as you so clearly put it, is when messed up teachers use this process that a student is going through to reach their true nature, to their own gain. When it gets manipulated. And when the student starts clinging to the outer manifestation of this process (in this case the teacher) and start showing blind and misguided devotion.

[@stuartwoud5505]

your talk has real value, its hard for people to practise in simple sincere ways , ( Objectless practise / Shikantaza , Zazen without lots of baggage and fakery. Seems to be easier to study Mindfullness without the religious stuff. Yes your right paying attention is the where it's at, and for me makes life more enjoyable - although I forget this myself lots of the time.

[@jerry-mind-sky]

After many years of observing developement of tibetan buddhism on West Shamar Rinpoche recommended Mahayana teachings , 35 Buddhas meditation and Avalokiteśvara and Vajrasattva meditation.

[@25557813]

getting out of buddhism is just as important as getting into it. Hopefully after the process we are moer aware of ourselves.

[@frontier9]

There is always a process of convincing people they need unconventional treatment to push them, challenge them to get to enlightenment. However - it's all very convenient that they do it to people who are vulnerable, desirable or useful just exactly like it's done in many other religions. Thus it's just purely - "yeah but our religion is correct so it's ok in our religion". Good to hear you - I've been on hiatus but I'm catching up ... just to process a bit deeper. I've got a far more balanced fair view of these images and men ... we were invited to experiment. We did and we left ... all the rest was a con, vows aren't binding - unless they are kind of created by a cult version of the religion. If one grows weary of "the training" or finds the mentor/teacher is not worthy they have to leave ... it is written and conveniently covered and ignored by these con men. Tibetan Buddhism and these lamas are guilty of reinventing (corrupting) this religion and rebranding ... and I'm sure they wouldn't dare debate that because it would be too easy to show contradiction and they have to thrive in paradox, lies and confusion because it's just too easy to see its false if you step away from it - and recover. I continue to watch my mind - and I don't need anyone's permission to use anything that was meant to help me without "permission" from people who pretty obviously didn't bother to really check themselves or their own motives. I don't know that turning the awareness in does the job fully - it is more supportive of cutting through with a deeper more sustained analytical task. Those were the points I took away - not too deep into the meditation that the analytical mind is weaker - but deep enough that it is more focused and you have a kind of patience and stamina to stay on topic.

[@williamdonnelly224]

I'm so sorry about what you experienced. As Bob Dylan sang several decades ago,"don't follow leaders, and watch your parking meters."

[@pacificgarden]

Wow this is blowing my mind 🤯

[@nicholasholiday941]

I attended Naropa in 1975. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was well on his way to f**king whomever he wanted, drinking himself to death, assembling a ceremonial army, indulging him self in all kinds of materialism, physically striking students and committing sexual abuse against a poet and his wife. He was authoritarian. The students generally fell for it and often imitated his behaviors right down to smoking Sherman cigarettes. All of this was chalked up to the concept of crazy wisdom. Power corrupts and beliefs blind. Buddhist, Christian, Hindu it makes no difference. All of this does not nullify Trungpa's brilliant lectures and writings. But not holding leaders accountable whoever they are IS doing harm.

[@FoxLokian]

At the end of the day it's just people in power. I appreciate buddhism teaching but it's the leaders I am concerned about.

[@philmcdonald6088]

5:36. ✨be here now do no harm help others be still close eyes listen to your breathing✨

[@MaestroDjGERVAYBRIO]

Deep ! 🙏

[@MDIS]

I don't think I have left it but rather embraced its originations, which is Sanatan Dharma.

[@tico1623]

It is not about the Buddhist it is just you who misunderstood the basic principles of the Buddhist. You are not supposed to blindly follow lama or devote yourself to them. You need to absorb the information from the lama carefully like you learn from your mentor and then examine yourself.

[@iancampbell1494]

I mean…one of the goals of Buddhism is to transcend the label of buddhist or Buddhism so… On the spirituality thing: practicing compassion, skillful action, and mindfulness is in itself spiritual, though I think that label is particularly useful as it’s easily clung onto, which undermines the practice itself.

[@SunsetHoney615]

I didn’t want to give this a like because the experience of coercion and control by gurus has severely impeded your path. Just to say that what you’ve described is exactly what has happened time and again when guru worship is the main message - in Buddhism and especially so in modern Evangelical and Catholic Christianity. The only guru for Buddhists should be the Buddha. I’ve avoided Tibetan guru religion because of my upbringing in Christianity and having seen this problem time and again. I’d encourage you not to give up on the Dhamma. Modern western schools of Theravada and secular Buddhism are great places to rebuild faith. Without knowing you, it sounds like you are still very much a student of the Buddha from what you have said ❤

[@vinnysing1324]

I am a Tibetan Buddhist but i don't need a Rinpoche or Tantric master. I follow closely the Buddha Dharma , that's it. And I chant master Pedma mantra.

[@tahwsisiht]

11:05 Pleasure can be also that you like to think that you are on the wisest spiritual path. You take pleasure in your "image" as a Bodhisattva AND spiritual materialism

[@tahwsisiht]

33:06

[@rumrunner8019]

I just don't understand why anyone would leave a religion based on the awful behavior of one teacher. Sogyal's behavior was terrible and I don't even want to think about where he ended up in his rebirth, but he was a single Lama. They are not gods and some can be abusive and others aren't abusive but are just grouchy, I agree, but there are countless others.

[@Ikaros23]

Narcissism is rampant amoung gurus. I would say this is the normal also in other religions not just buddhism. the reason is simply " Long term Zen", that is a long term feeling of calm simply don`t exist. But people crave a permanent cure for their suffering in life. Suffering from trauma, abuse, neglect, and the fear of death, suffering, and fear. Zen can make life more easy. And make it more easy to accept our fate. But it is never going to take the suffering away or create a permanent mental state of euforia or calm. Impermanence and change is the law of the universe and there is nothing to be done about it. But the gurus, con artists of this world take advantage of this and sells the " cure" for peoples suffering. My advice is stay away from all gurus, and the spiritual community as a whole. It`s full of people with mental dissorders, who think that magical thinking can fix their issues. Instead of seeing a therapist and realy looking inwards on their trauma/deep suffering.

[@KeniLeeBurgess]

We take refuge in the triple gem. The whole of it. Not a single Buddha exclusively.

[@yct6500]

This person has gone insane. You don't have to reject the religion and your faith because of the wrong doings of your teacher. Please stay sane and humble.

[@nicholasholiday941]

Gone insane? No, paying attention and moving on. And detaching the means of enlightenment from the control of autocratic llamas.

[@MarkDParker]

Thank you for speaking so courageously on the subject of abuse. Sangha's should exercise better oversight and demand accountability from their teachers and leaders. On a personal note: Does your practice concern itself at all with karma and rebirth? Or do you see all that as superstition?

[@silvertenzin]

People are in denial & it’s easier that way because investigating into the TRUTH takes courage, and WORK. People are lazy & passive followers of gibberish nonsense today. I’m happy at least you ESCAPED. It’s less time & energy wasted idolizing mortal MAN.

[@lukemckean6155]

Better to stick to the early Buddhist faith that doesn’t have these gurus and devotion etc. The teacher is the Buddha. The monks merely pass on his teachings. And there are very strong rules around separation between the monastics and lay people. I’m sure it’s not perfect but hey, what is?

[@KeniLeeBurgess]

Idealism is not reality. Everyone is Buddha. Stating self and other are one, is not the same as actualizing self and other are one. Your lama provided a good lesson to you. Very bitter but effective. There is no merit in being a selfless door mat for others to wipe their feet. It is not Buddhism that is to fault. It is the lama and yourself where the fault lies. There are no perfect beings.

[@chrislanziotti9179]

Very good! Thank you!

[@TerriblePerfection]

You don't need religion. You don't need a spiritual teacher. Nor is there anything to seek because the idea of a separate seeker is an illusion. When the clutter falls away, what is left? The answer to that is available to anyone, right now, without teachers or books or meditation. Those are only pointers, like my wordy comment.

[@KeniLeeBurgess]

I am sorry to hear you had to experience this dharma, but your lama will feel the wrath of karma too.

[@PemaJikmey]

The Tibetan Buddhism is based on Guru so if you really want to get enlightenment you need to receive first blessing from your Guru, if you don’t have that blessing you will not qualify to be a good practitioner. If your Guru is really harm you and your mind change of your Guru that is totally you have right to defend yourself n criticize him. That is totally on your choice n you have right to against your Guru. That is your on perception n thinking but you can’t tell everyone this Guru is wrong because everyone has different opinions so they can choose what they want.

[@humbertoochoatrujillo1154]

Ahh, how you dare 20 dollars for choose your name, 20 dollars for set the Kata, make karma yoga in a weekend in their gompa, donations for the teacher that never are abailable for ask questions for made práctice. I realy enjoy yor video. Tibetan budhism is another kind of busines.

[@redbeard5598]

The lamas are clinging to their ways because they're about the self (or the illusion of it, anyway).

[@dmitrypopov4936]

It seems you've got all the necessary lessons from Sogyal Rinpoche he could give to you also by way of abusing

[@yidagaka3527]

the real teaching can never from a book,

[@AscendingGuru]

Great! Sounds like you got out of a dogmatic cult. I don't trust the teachings of Siddharta Gautama, his descriptions of the process and the experience in there, do not convince me that he has what he claimed to have. I wish you do sonoran dessert Toad Venom, in a safe facilitated environment, so that you get confirmation that this power is possible to get in this life, to hold eternal. Then, from that intense experience, begin the attempt to be like that. I like that a lot, it is a good starting position, much better than devotion. This is safety, in a way. I run a channel, U do instructions, however it is better understood as sharing my experience, without the value judgment. I speak with fascination from my experiences. But a smart person can get dogzen from that.

[@KeithStewart-n6b]

Twenty years of Buddhism and still no idea of the way! Attachment attachment attachment!

[@RubinGhimire]

You seem very wise 😂

[@scottsews]

Why not maybe pursue your practice in Theravada, all Mahayana teachings are apocryphal. As a Theravada Buddhist, I draw great strength in the more conservative views of Theravada.

[@karmatashi5337]

Actually if you have learnt tibetan bhuddism you will find that it's not a religion. Rather nangchoe means inner change. If you have become a more mindful and better human being it doesn't matter. Just before you die try to read Bardo thodol.

[@furtivedolus2504]

I mean, Vajrayana is basically the Mormonism of Buddhism. Lets not paint with a brush so broad you coat the other branches that don't even have this Lama nonsense.

[@cyberpunkworld]

Politics. Santa Barbara style. That's what remains.

[@wordscapes5690]

Could you not have just changed to the Theravada tradition? All religions have abuse problems, as do all secular organizations. However, this kind of grotesque behavior would never be tolerated in the Theravada schools.

[@fingerprint5511]

The issue isn't 'Buddhism' but Tibetan version of Buddhism. If you read the Pali Canon you'll see very clear teachings minus the corruptions of the tradition you practiced. I first heard the words of the Buddha and something was awakened however all that was available decades ago was Zen which is confusing and Mahayana Tibetan, I read, I tried, I learned zero then one day I heard Theravada and everything began to come together. Also the Western Buddhists not training in the Pali Canon are why the destruction of Dhamma is coming from within, because the World the Buddha overcame was conditioned phenomena, it can't be enlightened as it is empty. The Tibetan Lamas in my heart are full of the world and are not ordinary people, they are lost in hate, greed, delusion. Try Theravada, Ajahn Sumedho is a great example of a Westerner who woke up to reality and has blessed the lives of countless people because he does as the Buddha did - points to the path. He's on youtube, just 5 minutes listening to him you will know he is genuine because he doesn't tell you to believe him at all, but to investigate - as the Buddha instructed. I'm Oz too, also older.

[@azsx299]

The issue is the world

[@ananda_miaoyin]

@@azsx299 The world is fine. The humans are not.

[@OmarDenison]

René Guénon.

[@doomcum]

i love him but how he is related to what she says?

[@cyberpunkworld]

I'm your man.

[@ttselha64]

How sad for you. You obviously do not understand guru yoga. The idea is to help the student bring about change, to tame the mind. You were not practicing Vajrayana. You were and are fooling yourself. 😢

[@AirSandFire]

I agree but you could have said the same in a nicer way

[@petrairene]

Why are you still judging the path the buddha taught with the shortcomings of some people today teaching it? Why are you deciding on your spiritual path based on the deeds of some misfits in that tradition, as if that defines what that traditon is? You either believe in the doctrin because you find the logic behind it convincing, then the unpleasant revelations will not change that belief, just your attitude towards perpetrators and enablers, or you never really have had faith in the doctrin of vajrayana but were just a dharma groupie high on the exoticism, then you jump ship at the first little inconvenience. By the way, you were never a Tibetan buddhist. You are obviously not a Tibetan, and tantric buddhism is not a Tibetan invention.

[@theManishMuse]

I agree with some points you are making here (tho not so much your tone). But Tahlia also makes a point about guru worship (in another vid) which is the basis of Tibetan Buddhist teachings. Even just the prayer to lamas being the creator of all happiness is common. And it was the sangha that also betrayed Rigpa ppl. Without jumping down my throat, I’d love to hear your view on the centrality of the guru in this tradition and how you can separate that from dogma? Because all guru worship is a problem. Unless they’re dead, many hundreds of years ago :)

[@petrairene]

@@theManishMuse "Even just the prayer to lamas being the creator of all happiness is common." But if you don't want to practice vajrayana, the mahayana teachings that do not require a guru and aim at the same goal are also available. So "all happiness"=liberation can also reached without a guru if that is more your thing. For example it is said that Maitreya, the next buddha, will only teach sutrayana. Yes, you can use the guru as source of all happiness, but you do not have to. It's not a "have faith in Christ or go to hell" situation. There are a lot of fine theravada and mahayana traditions and teachers out there. For example Daizen Skinner. Plus some seriously good Tibetan lamas that I know will teach you sutra-mahayana only if that is your inclination, like for example the mind training teachings. And you will not be looked down on for doing it. No tantric teacher worth anything will insist that everyone needs to practice tantra. In fact, the hallmark of a good vajrayana teacher is that he will deny tantra teachings if he or she finds they are not appropriate for the development of that student. You have to be aware that teachers are frequently pestered to the bone by prospecting students to for example give them dzogchen teachings, when they are just not ready to understand or practice them. I have seen a teacher say flat out "no" at such a request. There are Tibetan lamas where it isn't that easy to get an initiation. And the sangha, well yeah. Buddhist groups are stuffed full with not so enlightened people who are to a greater or lesser extent try to be on the path. Don't expect too many fully fledged saints there, LOL. If you engage with any buddhist group, expect neurotic behaviours from your fellow students, just like at any office or workshop. I don't know, I think the term "worship" is really not appropriate for guru yoga meditation. You unite your mind with the mind of the guru, by realising that the notion of separation between living things is a mind made illusion. You just realise something that already is a fact, but in deludedness one is unable to see it. That practice aims at reducing your habit of seeing this reality through your conceptual mind as something solid. And yes, that works! In fact, it's a really easy meditation to do, much easier than shamata on the breath, because it's such a pleasant way to engage your mind. For example I have a tendency toward depression and anxiety because of childhood trauma. I find guru yoga meditation very relaxing and stabilising. And nope, I'm not brainwashed. In fact with this, I feel a lot freer than before I started to get the hang of this. And I do not even have to pay 80 Euros for an hour like for a therapist to listen to me, LOL. What do they want out of me? Pretty much nothing. But, I have to say that none of the vajrayana teachers I take as my refuge (I'm more beholden to a lineage/mandala than strictly one teacher) is a sexual molester, substance abuser or donation fund defrauder. I have been a long term follower in Rigpa, but Sogyal was never my guru. There was always something in him that made me just too uncomfortable. Have a good afternoon (or whatever time of day it is where you live)

[@theManishMuse]

@@petrairene thank you so much for that! You’ve given me good stuff to reflect on and a more balanced view of this situation. I’ll be coming back to your response as I learn more. I’m just really loving the teachings at the moment, and getting into Alan Wallace. I’ve been involved at FPMT in the past and was interested in learning more on dzogchen. Found a local Rigpa Centre, and then learned all about this. I saw the guru respect as a gratitude for transmitting the knowledge. There’s such wonderful teachers out there. But I don’t want to be around idiot institutes and wide-eyed weirdos that don’t know the difference bw systemic abuse and dharma.

[@petrairene]

@@theManishMuse I find Alan Wallace great. A westerner who can explain these ideas and methods in a way that is to the point and understandable for westerners. If you are looking for good western teachers in the Tibetan tradition, you may also look at Glenn Mullin and Ven. Tenzin Palmo You will have to be involved with a certain level of institutional idiocy if you want to get dharma teachings from a teacher who teaches by running centers. I would see that pragmatically. Just as there is BS going on at the company where you work, there will be BS going on in the various dharma groups. You can get the teachings without being influenced by that too much. Like, you roll your eyes on occasion, seek out the good people there and just do your thing. Just as you do it in the work situation. About Rigpa, the abuse and direct witnesses of the abuse that turned a blind eye/enabled were generally a small selection of close students/functionaries. Fortunately the local centers were never places where abuse was going on and the lead people locally were mostly not these inner circle folks. These days for their events Rigpa heavily uses recorded teachings by other teachers than Sogyal, like for example Khandro Rinpoche or Ringu Tulku. So if you should attend an event at your local Rigpa center, what you get these days is pretty low in Sogyal content, but is genuine teachings by non-abusive teachers. What you would have to put up with is older students who still downplay what had been going on because they still see Sogyal as their teacher. Though if Rigpa is going to have a future as an organisation, it will have to attract people whose loyalties lie with other teachers than Sogyal.

[@theManishMuse]

@@petrairene oh yeh I began my journey with Tenzin Palmo, and still return to her books for clarity. And Pema Chodron and shambala teachings (before that abuse). I guess the issue with the inner and outer circle is what Tahlia is getting at. I would always be on the outer but I’d still be complicit in abuse. Like the example someone gave above on a wide-eyed guru follower who told him ‘sogyal is the only teaching needed’. If I shrugged that off at the time, but still continued to go then I would’ve been turning a blind eye to the abuse happening in the inner circle. Right now, I’m sure thé local centre ppl are lovely and just trying to keep it going ‘after the fall’. It’s got strong policies in place and better the devil you know than all the centres without them (perspective of a newb). But if those higher ups are still there, like Tahlia said, those that witnessed abuse and rationalized it away, I’d still feel like I was supporting the past abuse.

[@28105wsking]

An ego-otomy?

[@999study]

So based on your all your blabbering. You still want to meditate, and believe in nature of mind , and dzogchen but you don’t want any lama. Maybe you should read books and go to teachings of teachers like Pema Chodron and or Khandro. Like Buddha says go with the middle way. Since you seem to have problem with male Tibetan lamas. Follow female teachers who are Caucasian. Or if you have problem with these teachers since the have devotion to Tibetan male teachers. You should become teacher since most Caucasian students are keen to become teachers right away wether it is dharma or yoga or anything.

[@susanna6826]

You chose the wrong teacher

[@learningtolearn4190]

ok

[@Scout-nn4vb]

A bunch of monks? No?

[@999study]

If you go an Indian restaurant and you don’t see any Indian eating there, most likely its not a good Indian restaurant. Likewise if you go to Tibetan Dharma Center and you rarely see any Tibetan. Most likely you came to the wrong place. 😂😂😂

[@niallmacceide4603]

Buddhism? Is that thing still going?

[@saramshagorkhali101]

yeah man its still going

[@thomasbarchen]

Some folks are stuck in the 90s

[@28105wsking]

A haircut?

[@bryan143]

Eat, drink, and be merry. Stop being a follower. That’s the big lesson.

[@ananda_miaoyin]

I am down with the Buddha. I am down with the Dharma. The Sangha....they are just humans. Meditate deep and the first two will guide you. You don't need the third.

[@matthewrousseau2982]

Sounds like alcoholics Anonymous

[@LTSpacelight8]

For someone with such aversion agains Buddhist teachers she surely tries a lot to be one. She has a strange inclination towards generalizations, strange reluctance to be grateful for the valuable teachings she obviously received, and to the teachers who provided them, strange confusion about conspiracy theories while supporting one herself (lamas designing an abusive devotional system). She’s harboring a complete lack of original meaning of guru devotion, and what seems as a modern dismissal of a need for a qualified guide. For someone being ‘a student and practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism for 20+ years’, it’s quite striking to advocate against Tibetan Buddhist teachers in whole, as opposed to understanding relativity and advise people to follow qualified masters after thoroughly verifying their qualifications. In essence, she seems to be acting from the very same kind of mind she’s warning others against.

[@georgelelandturner]

I’m sorry my dear but intuition tells me you are a little too self satisfied. Take that as you will.

[@dis8011]

Why are you so hung up on conspiracy theories?

[@JJ-uo9tj]

It's so sad to see how the Western world glorified the lamaism for years, and now the people suffer from the consequences😮 Using "Budhism" to describe Tibetan Lamanism is very misleading! China warned the world more than 70 years ago about human abuse and killing in this Tibet Lamarism, but was ignored by the Western world, until recent years!

[@KaaLee8]

The key is to realize emptiness and non duality. There is no guru in the absolute, only a perception of ones own mind. Til then it is better not to judge anyone. 🙏🕉💜💎🫶