World Record Progression: NES Tetris No Piece Rotation

[@aGameScout]

This is a HUGE update video to the No Piece Rotation video I made last month! Thanks especially to Kirby703 for pitching the concept of this video to me and helping organize the timeline of records. Additional thanks to HydrantDude, B14NK, and Kofi for helping fill in the gaps for the early months, and to the guest interviewees for coming on! Check out all the videos in the google doc in the description.

[@spidernh]

Suggestion: When a new world record is set for this category, if you know (like from discord or something), you could put it at the end of this pinned comment.

[@Little_Mac_12127]

I think -outdated- wr of 29 lines on PAL version by poet13 deserve to be mentioned - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmrEhmdprsecrpo

[@ZinbobDan]

@R Russell another comment in here mentioned that it is based on the timing of the previous piece locking down. So your current piece and next piece are generated, then the RNG determines the following next piece based on the internal clock when the current piece locks; the next piece becomes the current piece, and the newly generated next piece gets queued up.

[@jenokiss1959]

@@glhf5441 crazy he got 41 here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmLKdZ2Lit6hp9k

[@6yjjk]

What's the WR for no rotation no next box? :D

[@hannahs8370]

great vid as always!! honored to be featured here!

[@aGameScout]

thanks, was an honor to have you!

[@Finnyan]

Nice 26 lines! I didn't even think no rotation runs were possible! Hopefully you keep it up and have fun playing tetris!

[@Razorcarl]

respecc

[@Devoid0010]

le wot

[@LRAStartFox]

Absolute giga Chad

[@Oshisaure]

10:38 "With NES, it's easy, maybe you'll just get squares forever" **laughs in squares only TAS I did once for april fools**

[@hellboy19991]

I remember watching that, that piece manipulation would have made me go insane...

[@Oshisaure]

@@hellboy19991 To be fair most of it was made through a script. After looking at how the RNG works, I managed to make something predicting the next piece if your current piece locks on the current frame, then i turned it into something that can basically play itself for a while and record the inputs.

[@Josuh]

I remember that video, it was truly a delight to watch

[@gnochhuos645]

Oh it’s the O-spin god

[@elemenopi9239]

YOOO ITS THE ELEVATOR GUY

[@Manabender]

Idea: One-Rotation: You must rotate every piece exactly once. It's up to you whether it's clockwise our counterclockwise. But every piece must be rotated once. Not zero times, not two or more, exactly once.

[@saxo689]

Square block would be easy

I've tried it out! Check out the results

[@cupslide]

@ OH THE GUY WHO WAS IN THE VID

[@69420fart]

@ ngl its hilarious how you just appeared out of nowhere in this comment

[@milkywaydotmoe]

that's just how i regularly play

[@Mysda_]

So when I was a kid that doesn't understand how to turn pieces I wasn't dumb, I was training for world record

[@respunculesbruh7498]

"When I was a kid" still has a Minecraft profile picture

[@Mysda_]

@@respunculesbruh7498 I'm 21, I will not change my picture to a random fish with a channel that mostly have Minecraft videos. Also minecraft isn't only for kids, check out ilmango, it's literally engineering in minecraft.

[@RedStone576]

oohhhh shittt

[@AndrewTaylorNintyuk]

@@respunculesbruh7498 You older than you think my dude

[@MTWas]

Or when you try to make a tetris clone but can't figure out how the rotation in tetris works

[@amberlandball]

Update: Zoltan has gotten 63 lines, with a new strategy, only building a well on the right side, to burn more in the left.

[@chrislaw4189]

72 actually

[@amberlandball]

@@chrislaw4189 ohh ok. this is 3 months ago so thx for da update

[@eris2576]

> 4 lines into the kill screen, aka lvl 2 Holy shit, that had me in stitches

[@eavyeavy2864]

Not 4chan, > useless

Masterpiece! Ty for the interview!

[@aGameScout]

thanks again for sharing your strategies! good luck with the livestreams

[@turosfagyi]

szép volt, és így tovább! a magyar hangsávot meg csak mi értjük ;)

@@turosfagyi pontosan, ékes nyelvünk gyönyörű kifejezőképsségét terjesztem :) Hogy a 150 ezer klippből pont ezt tette bele :D

[@roygoodhand1301]

You are the Matt Turk of Tetris.

[@markoadam6619]

lol GG

[@stardustreverie6880]

holy shit, is Kirby a mathematician? because "Proving that 7-bag Tetris is Infinitely Doable with No Rotation" totally sounds like a math paper haha

[@silpheedTandy]

i thought that was really cool, too :)

[@mingzeyu7525]

and she use the world "trivial" which is very typical of mathematician/students

[@zetahurley294]

Lol, weirder papers have been published

[@Sorestlor]

There was a paper on the spontaneous tangling of string. Someone really wanted to figure out why their earphone cords kept tangling.

[@calinguga]

@@mingzeyu7525 also mentioned a "parity problem". just the deal of wanting to publish a proof pretty much gives her away :)

[@gundvr1846]

that’s crazy how a random player just got an insane record

[@ibtonyu2archives134]

We were all random players before we connected

[@garorade]

@@ibtonyu2archives134 tru

[@EliosMoonElios]

Not random player merely a player out of the community.

[@Razorcarl]

@@ibtonyu2archives134 true

[@afbanjagjafdbxcvbrtjwsasdg2825]

not an insane record, the lady pruved that this category is trivial for 7bag and random

[@hellboy19991]

- attempts meme category in NES Tetris - gets WR after third attempt *surprised pikachu*

[@williamrutherford553]

I love the little animation of Kirby hitting the buttons on the NES controller. So cute! I remember seeing that comment on your last video with the new record, amazing how many people attempted the category because of your vid. Keep doing what you do!

[@Kirby703]

Even better... it displays what buttons I'm currently pressing :o

[@skyjoe55]

@@Kirby703 Thats so cool!

[@technospyform1578]

@@Kirby703 👍

[@69420fart]

@@Kirby703 i love how all the people in this video appear in random comments

[@alectucker7815]

I'm VERY new to tetris. I'm 26, never played tetris until I was 25. I just play a rom on my laptop. High score was 150,000ish. Haven't played in a while but I decided to try no rotation for about an hour. The most lines I could get was about 11. I go back to normal tetris, and it all seems so much easier. First try I PD'd with 220,000 lol.

[@aGameScout]

that's awesome! yeah I've heard that no-rotation can help you recognize horizontal burns you otherwise wouldn't think about

[@cadekachelmeier7251]

You took off your weighted clothing.

[@Jupiter__001_]

@@cadekachelmeier7251 What a great analogy lol

[@xismxist]

thats good ;) i got 13 lines with no rotations (started at 0)

[@flaccidwhiskey3758]

You should try some of the guideline games like Puyo Puyo Tetris

[@Kirby703]

calling level 2 the killscreen?? smh more like the mullen screen am I right

[@aGameScout]

True that

[@stefangrosser6466]

I like how its clear you study math by saying something is 'not trivial'

[@spinningchurro]

@Kirby703 it’s so cool that you represent the trans community in such a positive light! You go girl!

[@AmbitionIsaMust115]

Nice maths btw

[@jan-seli]

Yo so technically Hannah S. Was the first person to break the old record from the 90s

[@patrickhector]

It's not really a record if it wasn't, you know, recorded

[@Jono997]

@@patrickhector In that case the original record itself is not counted.

[@truthsmiles]

@@patrickhector I think we have to allow some leeway for really old (pre-2000) records being based on “honor” because as crazy as it seems by today’s standards, very few people recorded anything back then.

[@praisecats2724]

Fun fact: Your no rotations videos was the push that had me get the game for myself!

[@DanielSolis]

I am not even involved with the competitive Tetris scene, but I love these periodic check-ins with different world records. In particular I like the interviews and visual demonstrations of different strategies. I can tell there's a lot of work going into that and I appreciate it. Well done!

[@melodywawichi802]

4:53 did your 19-5 video not teach you anything about ""inadvertently"" setting off a new chain of WR attempts on niche high score categories

[@aGameScout]

I expected maybe there would be a little bump but not like this

[@Dan_d00d]

@@aGameScout this more than anything is a great testament to not only your video production quality, likability, and topics, but how well you have cemented yourself as an authority in the field for classic tetris for news and theory. Self achieved and well deserved. Keep going, you are the next evolution a decade on from Robin et al , with the current new media formats.

[@Dan_d00d]

@@aGameScout Also, good stuff for showing Ben Mullen some love . he has been a character and so intriguing all the way since Ecstasy . Id love to see you do some mini doco on any of the people from then. And i wont even mention trying to land Thor.

[@kubastachu9860]

@@aGameScout turns out you are Classic Tetris influencer

[@Swagpion]

Hey a spark in the community is good

[@daguido742]

Hannah is the GOAT. she just went and got the record like its no big deal😂

[@rreagan007]

I remember when I got my GameBoy back in the 90s and it came with Tetris. At first when I started playing it, I didn't realize you could rotate the pieces. So I inadvertently played no rotation Tetris for several days.

[@MsJavaWolf]

This is seriously one of my favourite channels right now. Content and production quality are on par or even better than some much bigger channels.

[@medea6519]

Wow, that Kirby703 infinite sequence proof is great. Tetris people are crazy. Very fun video.

[@Kirby703]

Thank you! It was fun to make, for sure. =) I feel like I should consider the *worst* case luck in a future proof... NES is proven to be a topout, but I wonder about 7-bag.

[@medea6519]

​@@Kirby703 I will look out for it. As a player who grew up relying on dumb intuition, and just throwing pieces around until something works, it's fascinating to now watch players thinking deeply about the game.

[@williambarnes5023]

MAAAAAAAAAATH

[@mmmmmmmmmmmmm]

@@Kirby703 Yes, I really want to see that. That was my immediate thought when he was explaining what you proved.

[@xyz.anonymous]

@@Kirby703 I would love to see you make videos on Tetris the way Pannen makes videos on Super Mario 64

[@al3ph35]

*'Home - We're Finally Landing' starts playing*

[@balbar_b]

(Angry SummoningSalt fan noises)

[@spragetwang6317]

YEAH I'M IN THE VIDEO! 4:59~5:06 Thank you aGameScout :D

[@Patashu]

> Entire video is about not rotating pieces > Outro animation features a t-spin Guys, Blue is the Impostor (But seriously, was looking forward to this and it was great!)

[@daniellemurnett2534]

It's nice to know that a guy from my own humble country of Hungary holds the world record. Props to Zoltán.

[@AdamMaynes]

It's funny: I watch these videos as part of my combined fascination with Tetris as well as my desire to learn how to play it at a relatively skilled-level, and yet as I watch these videos (and I watch them all), and I see the caliber of the world's greatest (including you, aGameScout), I literally feel like the more information I see and learn, the less I know. haha That said, I love this channel and am excited when a new one populated on my feed.

[@GodLandon]

I was so shocked to hear Riviclia’s name. If you don’t know him but are familiar with osu! go look at some of his plays on his KZbin channel. Or if you aren’t familiar with osu!, they are ridiculously impressive regardless

[@ComedyVault101]

Yeah I was looking for a comment like this. I was like, is it THAT Riviclia? There couldn't be another one. And sure enough it is. What a legend.

[@jimothyjimothy1]

Yeah rivi is a beast in both osu and tetris

[@NotAghostSpeedruns]

Same here. He's one of my favorite players.

[@pnguyen379]

Between Riviclia and Doremy/Ekoro I feel like there's a surprising overlap between these communities.

[@jimothyjimothy1]

@@pnguyen379 sadly there is

[@ajin_kuzuri1938]

BOOM! Line for ____________________________

[@TimofeyMarko]

😂

[@teamofwinter8128]

Joseph

[@dangolfishin]

When I got tetris for Christmas as a kid many many years ago, I didn't realize you could rotate the pieces. It seemed impossible to get anywhere near the default "high scores". I quickly dismissed it as a garbage game but then it occured to me that maybe you could rotate. Picked it back up, rotated, and I was hooked.

[@maxdragonsoul5553]

Boom, double for Zoltan!

[@Pipothefreak]

Well done aGameScout! Once again a great video and it must be very satisfying for you to know that your videos about make a serious mark on the game now. A lot of players are being encouraged to play Tetris and records are being broken, just because you made a video about them. That must be a real nice motivation to keep the weekly going. Well done! Well done! Congratz!

[@johnchristiancardeno7990]

I just saw zoltan breaking the new record at 50 lines of no rotation

[@nagylevente5608]

59 exactly now

[@ryanamburgy2791]

63 now

[@JuanDavid0]

72 exactly now

[@exedeath]

S and Z are different pieces because you can't turn a S into a Z with rotation only (you can with reflection), someone could, create a nes tetris romhack made for no rotation (or just with a extra no rotation mode), where it has every piece variant possible (they are called Fixed tetrominoes and there are 19 of them en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetromino#Fixed_tetrominoes)

[@vanderkarl3927]

That was a weird way of phrasing it but I agree, I'd love to see fixed-piece tetris!

[@poudink5791]

@@BerserkerKong02 clearly you didn't get the original comment

[@szabi1256]

Magyarország megemlítve!!! Hajrá Zoli!

[@MMisi-ik4bk]

Nem is tudtam, hogy Tetris-ben van kiemelkedő magyar játékos... Hajrá Zoltán!

[@enchantedspider8842]

7:37 he literally says "cum" in hungarian lmao, i was not ready for that in a aGameScout video

[@deadfr0g]

Me reading the thumbnail: “Is this a joke?” Me 10 seconds into video: “This is SO GOOD.”

[@kellenheller915]

Man i love seeing this guy slowly decent into a tetris addiction, not that its a bad thing

[@terrko]

4am but still up for you hi from france !!!! one of the greatest content on yt

[@aGameScout]

thank you!

[@hehehaha9141]

Even if this vid came a little late this is still really good content keep it up man

[@meeeeesh1843]

if you open your eyes any wider, you might just look straight into my soul! [video is fantastic, thank you]

[@thealbinotadpole2878]

Inb4 this blows up. Great video, man!

[@haydodude4830]

This man deserves more subs

[@andrewpoon2378]

aGameScout is the reason most Tetris world records are moving fast.

[@andresrosales3466]

great coverage of a neat tetris niche. Thanks for the video!

[@Dattson510]

This is my new favorite class of Classic Tetris. First it was DAS and then Hyper tapping which tend toward the twitch aspect of gameplay. With NoRo, it seems more like strategy. There is RNG in both but the latter is just now starting to be studied.

[@djoverkin]

I got 7 lines after a few attempts and i'm quite happy with that lol. It's a totally different challenge, I feel like you need to think of stacking them horizontally, not vertically

[@mkgaca8721]

i have been watching your channel and i cant stop. im already practiceing a puyo puyo tetris (i cant afford a NES and am too scared to try to get a rom) this re introduced me to tetris and i am glad for that.

[@robertgreenwood6940]

It would be cool if a video was made about more of these tetris challenges. Now that players with the rolling technique have gotten such high scores I don't really know where they can go with it? Aside from completing the crazy long levels where there's like 800+ lines in green or whatever it is. Can someone maybe create a modified cart that makes it go even faster, so it's still playable but not as likely to go up to scores of 16 million or wherever we are at. Be interested to here the thoughts of those who know more about the game than I do!... Big fan of the channel the community and all those who are able to push the boundaries of human limits so far

[@Hendiadyoin1]

wait for the Tas-makers hearing of this. They'll propably be able to get a max score without rotating...

[@aGameScout]

it's already been done...all squares haha

[@migangfercab]

Incoming non rotation World championship battle round!

[@lazy1126]

damn i always forget you're a small channel with extremely great quality :/

[@standepain]

lol He's now at 72 lines.

[@kneesurgerytomorrow]

"unless you have a time macine" *laughs in wayback macine*

[@archienoir]

Machine*

[@ZsebtelepHUN]

Imagine someone clearing 45 lines, and getting disqualified for accidentally rotating a square piece

[@SaltedSofa12]

Epic video as always! This makes me wanna give it a try but 35 lines is very intimidating haha

[@Vistico93]

No Rotation seems like a fun category for Tetris novices playing with friends of a higher skill levels. It seems like a great leveler where, at least in the beginning, anyone could win

[@theBATgoesUPoh]

I love the game challenge community Game designers: here's the core of the gameplay for our game Game challenge community: okay but what if just... didn't?

[@DavidvanDeijk]

As i was watching the previous video i knew it would be really short time until you would have to make a followup Thank you to all the record breakers

[@unflexian]

Kirby you're a legend

[@NerdTheBox]

no rotation then: who will get the next world record? no rotation now: when will zoltan get the next world record?

[@nagylevente5608]

Poet got 47 so he is in the race too

[@eduardolarrymarinsilva76]

It would be cool if someone could mod the game so that each piece spawns with a random rotation.

[@33Pokenerd]

wait is this an updated video PogChamp

[@EEDGFE]

0:27 please tell me the name if this music track

[@agarcjaydagreat8716]

Perfect clear? Where's the garbage?

[@pjjjjjjjjjjj8721]

Thia is literally someone who broke to rotate keys and is waiting for the new controller

[@FazriGading]

this zoltan guy is big brain

[@Unlimited_Powah]

Help, i've dug into a KZbin rabbit hole

[@tolstoj9348]

Oh, I wouldn't have expected to appear in this video :-D

But you made it! :)

[@Robert_McGarry_Poems]

Change the intro to T-spin productions. Keep the animation obviously. That's a brand right there...

[@t4ky0n]

I THOUGHT YOU WERE HANK GREEN UNTIL YOUR FACE SHOWED UP

[@Eralen00]

it must be hard to fight that urge to rotate the pieces! I'm feeling the irresistible urge to rotate them even just watching the video lol

[@thermalthruster]

Amazing vid!

[@robbiestrong-morse730]

I think this means the longest lasting nes Tetris record was broken by someone with no comp experience.

[@billepperson2662]

Wow! That's just incredible if you stop & think about it for a second; World Records were being set SO frequently there for a minute, that people were announcing them via the comment section in an already outdated video about said world record chase, that had JUST been uploaded a couple days prior... 😲 That's just bonkers!

[@61O_42]

Im pretty sure a couple of hours later someone will break the record again...

[@61O_42]

Actually my personal best is 9 lines in a mobile emulator, so I have a lot of work if i wanna do something here lol

[@jenokiss1959]

@@61O_42 he did it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmLKdZ2Lit6hp9k

[@xflxme.]

Take a shot every time david blinks

[@icecreambone]

zoltan really said just 4wide

[@alvin_row]

10:48 I believe what she was trying to say is that it's harder to *prove* that you can go forever using modern tetris random piece generator, not that it's harder to *play* with it. As in, of course you could go forever in NES tetris because you could only get squares (in the same way you couldn't clear a line if you only get line pieces), but in modern tetris there could be a sequence that kills you without you being able to do anything about it.

[@manuell3505]

I think it's not really complicated to calculate the most probable final world record by brute-force automated play, assuming a reasonable amount of concurrent people trying. It's also easy to fake a recording by suppressing the game state during play or fully override the existing numbers provided, so you can practically choose any infinite RNG sequence.

[@big0bad0brad]

Yeah, what she proved was that 7 bag does not force you to lose in no rotation. It's trivial to see that with completely random pieces it's possible to continue forever, but there is sort of a lingering question if 7 bag forces you to lose eventually due to the constraints it places on the piece generation. She proved it doesn't force you to lose and that it is possible to get RNG that lets you continue indefinitely. The extension would be proving that it is possible to succeed with any RNG, and that's a much more difficult task.

[@MBoy2000_]

great video!

[@ViolinistJeff]

I think the longer the game goes, the rate of failure increases exponentially. In other words, it appears the maximum number lines that can be cleared has increased logarithmically. For example, it is relatively easy to improve your personal best from 16 to 17 lines, but it must be nearly impossible to improve the world record from 35 to 36 lines.

this is true but new strategies are being discovered and even lvl 6 has been reached (60 lines)

[@XericIsNotMyName]

i cant believe this is 7 months ago

[@davidbryantpiano6003]

I’ve never played competitively, but off and on I’ve been playing since I was a kid! I’ll definitely give the no rotation game a go at some point! @aGameScout I’ll definitely be following the page and picking this back up!

[@orichumo]

9:19 i love her input display

[@JoSephGD]

Alternate title: WR for playing Tetris like the O AI from PPT.

[@flaccidwhiskey3758]

Does O not rotate? I thought that was Skeleton T's thing in the Puyo series.

[@stanimirborov3765]

15:50 i played league of legends 1500 games this season too

[@Taydrum]

I just tried it, and got a million. Didn't record it though, but trust me

[@Redactive776]

Didn't expect Riviclia to be mention in this video

[@andylynch9758]

Great video. I'm currently playing it.

Watch out for the new stacking method!

[@avvvqvvv99]

with rng and skill maybe some crazy records are possible

[@visualgagging]

I wonder if they have this category for other puzzle games, like Dr Mario or Puyo Puyo

[@-Nerdway-]

Imagine making a world record but forgetting to record it.

[@xeridea]

The randomness on NES Tetris is based on what frame you are on. So it is possible to get exactly what piece you want every time, though it is pretty much TAS only because it requires frame perfect input for every piece, and you have to know what frame you are on. So for a human it is still essentially zero chance of getting ideal luck, but trivial for a TAS.

[@tavernofheart]

There should be a new catagory​ that you are allowed to do a t-spin I-spin etc as long as the pieces are in the original shape when it touches the stack. That way you are still deal with only 7 shape but it will be less rng dependent (=more fun to play)

[@aGameScout]

that's a good idea for a mode to try sometime. It is a pretty brutal mode as it currently stands. however I think that's what makes the world records so impressive!

This game mode exists as of now it is called OOr (Original Orientation) and yes the current wr is probably 100 lines but not many people tried it out so the ceiling is much higher (maybe 150-160 lines). There isn't that much theory but it is similar to NoRo just you can make 7-8 lines overhangs on your stack and flip 7-wide pieces or a longbar for burns.

[@PieceDependencyPodcast]

Man this category really exploded since your last video about this topic.

[@jenokiss1959]

now 41 is the wr: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmLKdZ2Lit6hp9k

[@PieceDependencyPodcast]

@@jenokiss1959 I saw it! That is amazing!

[@jenokiss1959]

@@PieceDependencyPodcast Wait untill sy breaks 50, as the new AI predicts that it will happen

[@ActuallyReid]

This record category honestly sounds like something Alex Kerr would excel at. I hope he gives it a go!

[@aGameScout]

people have metioned this on the discord server, he's said he's not as interested in this category, his favorite niche category is invisible tetris

[@aGameScout]

@@lawrencfgsdfg yeah, check out the invisible tetris side event from CTWC 2019! He made the finals

[@erngaming]

Wait i know riviclia from osu

[@enarmonika5557]

Okay so I happen to be an Osu! player apart from a tetris enjoyer (enjoyer, not player cuz I SUCC at tetris), and when I saw Rivicila's name I was like WOW (then I remembered that Riviclia did actually shift his interests towards tetris when he left Osu!) Anyways, good video 👍

[@terrorcsapda]

Büszke vagyok Zoltánra :D