Le Sserafim: Calling Vocal S.O.S.

[@soona22573]

One of their problems for me personally is that they combine an over-confidence concept with very weak vocal, this combination somehow pisses me off

[@itsbritneybisch8552]

And they've got no shame about it. I mean, if they respected their fans even just a little, they'd have walked themselves to the nearest vocal coach.

[@cheeryberrie]

Ah the "all talk but never do" combos 😂, people set themselves up for failure that way

[@hannahp4900]

then dont listen to it and focus on ur life instead lil bro

[@bennyb5011]

What does their vocal abilities have to do with their concept ? A concept IS nothing else than a concept

[@si_multifandom_ch_5099]

⁠@@itsbritneybisch8552I guess LESSERAFIM true concept is in fact “SHAMELESS” instead of “FEARLESS” for the entire time then. 🤔

[@moongoddessbaby]

I agree, It's really Hybe fault, Hybe gave them a good songs but forgot to give them a good vocal trainer

[@elinamanansi5508]

And probably the songs they had given don't really suit their style and talent

[@itsbritneybisch8552]

That, and I'd also assign some accountability on the girls. I mean, if they could pretend Sakura crocheted all their outfits for their "Smarter" promotions, they could at the very least pretend to go to vocal lessons. Maybe they'd pick up a thing or two.

[@kruelpse]

especially to sakura.. that girl has over 13 years in the industry and she still can’t sing ☹️

[@kaylabunnie5283]

HYBE knows its groups don't need good vocals to succeed because the fandoms will propel them forward regardless. HYBE fandoms thrive when they are able to put their idols in the position of "victim" that needs protection. The idols are never responsible for their behavior and instead the legion of handmaids, swains, and white knights grows to shield them from "haters" and the profits roll in. Can't see neither the company nor the girls wasting their time or coins on vocal trainers.

[@kemsari9969]

@@kaylabunnie5283 And here i am, believing, that i was the only one who got this "we have been soooo bullied from everyone and came out sooooo strong out of our own" victim mentality from alle HYBE groups. Well, it worked for BTS and now they are using it for everyone -.-

[@sheonyx]

the fact they gave them no vocal training and expected them to rival aespa. insane. i feel so incredibly bad for them and every other group under hybe.

[@suhkawnit]

they rival aespa on the charts, which is the only thing HYBE cares about

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

Even aespa was not as good as they could have possibly been at Coachella, they debuted during the pandemic and had very little live performance experience before that, even music shows had no audiences and weren't live singing at that time. Ideally they should have done more small, local festival shows first to build their confidence and stage presence. I feel like they've improved since and have more fun on stage. That said, at least the vocals were decent, Karina especially surprised me. Idk, it's a troubling trend in kpop where the bar just keeps getting lower and lower. When blackpink debuted people thought they had weak vocals, now they're being held up as the gold standard in comparison to lesserafim. We need 2nd gen caliber idols to get us back on track!

[@sheonyx]

@@suhkawnit has it not been theorized they have a deal with spotify? that would definitely boost their chart performance, at least on spotify/billboard, iirc that's VERY illegal in sk anyway i think it's highly ironic that both SM and HYBE tend to hide live vocals, yet one provides arguably the best vocal training in the industry and the other provides. none

[@suhkawnit]

@@sheonyx Scooter Braun can pull some strings in for sure

[@billliealim]

Funnt how hybe can monopolize 244542576 companies but can’t even hire a vocal coach

[@mattgab19]

In one of those “former employees speak out about kpop company” YT shorts, the dish about HYBE was that they basically had no coaches: you had to join the company fully-trained or talented because you weren’t going to get any better at HYBE. It was one thing when this was just Le Sserafim, but now that ILLIT has debuted, we can assume that that rumor was probably true.

[@soona22573]

ILLIT has the ultimate "weirdly early" debut.

[@bebebongBaebae]

It sounds true like even TXT struggle vocally so it may not be a new issue

[@zevphe]

Wow… that’s appalling. I don’t like YG groups’ music but I just saw a video of baby monster’s main vocalist throughout the years improving her vocals and it was phenomenal.

[@rosietales]

@@bebebongBaebae It most definitely is not new. Even with BTS, they struggled vocally and their strength lied in rap. I believe they only got better with singing after they decided to attend vocal classes themselves.

[@rosietales]

@@zevphe Because they have coaches. There's a reason why the big 3 is called the big 3 and hybe forced itself into it.

[@whatchahowsya8688]

The thing is Yunjin was trained in pop when she was still in Pledis. During PD48 she was solid as a pop vocalist. Whatever HYBE did, it's def messing her up. At the end of the day I blame the studio for intentionally choosing members that can't sing to create a singing group. Some people simply can't sing no matter how many years of training and practice they go thru. It's not natural to them. Case in point Sakura. She's a great entertainer (and my bias in the group) but I'm convinced she'll never be a good singer.

[@nnnn-sc2im]

imo i think it’s that after she went back to america she most likely stopped getting singing lessons possibly leading her to forget some of the training and then returning to korea to start from square one and get training from a different place that’s not well known for their vocals led to her skills being hindered

[@Spiderpunkrocks]

That's what I'm saying with sakura, there are people who just can't be a good singer no matter how much you trained them, her being stable is enough proof that she did train her vocals but her voice really is just not pleasant to hear. In a usual kpop group there are always members who can't sing but their contribution is visual or entertainment, and that is the role of sakura for me even she is aware that is suppose to be her role, refusing lines and refusing to be the leader. But 3 out of 5 girls who can't sing is just too much, idk what hybe was thinking debuting 3 girls who can't sing cause i know they must know, like what is the rush with debuting eunchae when she is so clearly undeveloped, why give kazuha so many lines when in usual stage she wouldn't sing the lines anyway and just completely lipsync or when she has to sing live she sounds awful, ive heard she only trained for 6 months or something and that is suppose to be a flex but no hybe, we could tell

[@Hamcheese-nk8ug]

​@Hobiemyhubby tbh I think sakura should just gets the shouting line but I don't they have that much shouting lines in their songs

[@AdrianComoro]

Yes, Sakura can be a good singer, at least a confident one, I feel like she's similar to Momo. If she's just confident then most of the problems would be fixed. Yes, she would still sound nasally, but in a good way. If she's that unconfident about her voice, she should've just not been a Kpop Idol and stayed in Japan. Also, of course HYBE would debut members that "can't sing", they're a money hungry group the whole time.

[@rosiejen]

​@@Spiderpunkrocks imo when garam was in the group it made more sense because she bridged the gap between the vocal line and non-vocalists, so at the time half the group was still pleasant to listen to. after her departure they were left with more non-vocalists than vocalists and that made the issue much more obvious.

[@Irys1997]

I watched both sets multiple times and I’m glad you set the record straight: on the first weekend there was only a backing track on Easy, the second weekend it was on everything. This was plain as day and made all the praise for the second weekend seem disingenuous or naive. It was foolish of the label to put them up to this, tbh you can see in Eunchae’s face, she is genuinely deeply wounded by the severe criticism

[@daisiesx96]

Idk why hybe would let their newer artist that aren’t amazing at singing live go somewhere like Coachella. You don’t even need to be a knockout vocalist you just need to be stable for the most part and confident with your execution.

[@suhkawnit]

@@daisiesx96 HYBE thought they would blow up like Blackpink did

[@アウエン]

Hybe have been really irresponsible with that. Of course this group wasn't read for Coachella... I'm so sad for Eunchae in particular, because she's still a child, so harsh criticisms are probably hitting harder for her... The first performances really did shock me for how little backtracks they gave these girls, especially considering their skills. It's as if they were setting them up to fail, it was upsetting. Even if they didn't care about the adult women in the group, couldn't they AT LEAST think about the teenage member..?

[@ClubPuguin]

I mean they debuted eunchae in a industry as harsh as kpop, of course they don't care.

[@strawberryinsomnia9188]

The Coachella attendees liked them because they’re used to live sets (and compared to Lana Del Rey and No Doubt, LSF was just fine); kpop fans made a huge deal of it.

[@westangayidols]

The backtrack on the 2nd week was so loud and people thought they just improved in a week 😅

[@EverRoxas]

The fact people believed they had improved in one week...

[@nubelinda]

@@EverRoxasit’s impossible and people are just delulu..

[@orbz6997]

the amount of fans i saw praising them for the so-called improvement is crazy LOL

[@Lalisa-manoBANGS-arestable]

​@@orbz6997fact that fearnot believed that the person who couldn't even be a decent vocalist in over decades and yrs ultimately improve in week 😂

[@orbz6997]

@@Lalisa-manoBANGS-arestable exactly LOL! i truly want to know what the lsrf fans are smoking to cook up those delusions

[@lalalala67021]

I was having the same thoughts about yunjin, it's kinda sad how bad hybe kinda set her up to fail, by not giving her the proper training to translate from her past style to the style they do now

[@AdrianComoro]

They didn't set her up to fail, only made a really bad mistake of her not vocal training

[@lavienrosewon8811]

She need pay her own vocal coach tho.

[@paninilist4678]

the worst part is that yunjin does not even sound like a bad vocalist, she sounds like a vocalist with vocal damage, something it not right and their team at hybe need to make sure that they are allowing her to properly train and heal her voice.

[@jeongsookim6705]

@@paninilist4678 I actually fear that they will all gain further vocal damage eventually... Sakura has been struggling with her technique since produce and well... her voice doesn't sound the best 😔

[@unsramee9834]

That's why I'm confused why yunjin does not sound good performing cuz I know she knows how to sing, however when watching their encores she doesn't sound like what I expect, sorry this is not a hate comment, I'm just a bit shocked

[@ejlee14]

I’m a vocalist and it took 10 years to sing pop and R&B properly because I was trained in opera and classical. Both styles require completely different techniques, but breath support using your diaphragm is universal to all styles of singing

[@chayo4537]

All of yall are vocalists now!😂😂😂 and its ironic how you say pop & r&b which is American music! And you know outsiders love talking shit about America but copy everything!

[@purplesky99876]

@@chayo4537 I feel like your comment is weirdly hostile for what this person said.

[@9kyuu]

@@chayo4537what the hell are you even on about? why are you yapping about america all of a sudden 💀 if you’re gonna act all hostile in someone’s replies, the least you can do is write a relevant, coherent and somewhat understandable comment, but you’re literally just yapping

[@CHAEonTop]

@@chayo4537listen, if your a fearnot bring this energy to a hate comment. This person is trained in singing. Are you? Their a vocalist they know what they’re talking about. When it comes to a serious video like this with no hate and valid criticism and others who are vocalist and are trained in singing comment their opinions don’t put this kind of energy in. Your comment is so rude and for no good reason. A little kid would comment this. But are you a vocalist?

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

@@chayo4537I’m not a vocalist and I know that different styles of music take different skill sets and times to learn. I did musical theater all my life growing up (amateur for fun but still you have to learn to sing with an ensemble), I am really good at using my voice in theater, choir, and church hymns. I SUCK at pop because it’s a different vocal technique I haven’t been trained/mired in. But also what OP said is true, that breath control is universal outside of styles. I also did Shakespeare in college, we had to learn proper breathing techniques because of how Shakespeare writes his plays sometimes you need a lot of air at one time.

[@Megan-bw5zh]

I just find is so bizarre that an idol with such vocal problems doesn't take any lessons and confidently says "it was our best stage" while a skilled vocalist like Jongho hits all the right notes and still the first thing he does after Coachella is go to a singing lesson... It really shows that good vocals are a result of hard work and a guaranteed fame debuting in Hybe gives you makes idols think theu don't need to improve because people will still like them.

[@goldenhourss]

it shows the difference between a vocalist and an idol singer. One is professionaly trained and loves their craft, the other is .. a performer.

[@ClubPuguin]

Well there's a reason people try to make a difference between vocalist and singer.

[@nnnn-sc2im]

idk if they stopped taking lessons after debut but before coachella sakura did a livestream and mentioned that they are taking vocal lessons

[@junglecat_rant]

@OP Exactly. Ateez were a force on that stage and I am not a fan. Jongho was exceptionally good. Credit where credit is due.

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

@@goldenhourssit’s also the difference between a Kpop idol (lesserafim) and actual artists (Ateez). It feels like for lesserafim it’s JUST a job, but Ateez clearly puts their all into it and go out of their way to improve themselves on their own time outside of KQ prompting them (tho I’m sure KQ gives them the support they feel they need). Maybe the lesserafim girls aren’t getting that support from HYBE, we don’t know sure. But also, I think it’s frustrating when they’re like “we did great! No notes” when Jongho is out here like “yeah I could have gone to hang at Coachella, but I wanted to work on my vocals.” Even Hongjoong skipped weekend two so he could go work with a producer. Ateez are artists who follow a lot of the kpop rules but they and their team work for them to stand above the rest in skills. Lesserafim feel like corporate idols….which is a shame because the girls ARE talented.

[@FauxCocomelon]

What pisses me off is how the members still don't take vocal lessons even though they know that they're very weak in that department. They've said time and time again that they're not confident in singing live. Why they don't take action and improve upon it is beyond me atp. Now to me, it just looks like they know their fans will let them slide for being untrained vocalists so they don't see the need to put in "unnecessary" effort to improve. Makes u really think about the level of these mainstream groups in kpop these days

[@bennyb5011]

Nobody knows if they still take vocal lessons or not 💀 stop with the misinformation

[@multistanhuhue1601]

​@@bennyb5011 they themselves said they didn't i read somewhere that Kazuha said in an interview that during easy they got their vocal lesson over 2 years after debut

[@user23q0]

Well with on going hybe drama. Since it mentioned tht source music was going bankrupt I would understand why they weren't rlly vocally trained well. But after antifragile, they should have started training since they probably made big cash during tht era They debuted at 2022 so they started training this yr?

[@bennyb5011]

@@multistanhuhue1601 stop lying 💀 what your source ?

[@FauxCocomelon]

@@bennyb5011 It's not misinformation cause there's literally no improvement (I actually think they regressed) - u'd at least be able to see results if they actually were taking lessons lmao (if a 5 yr old can improve after taking 5 vocal lessons, so can full grown adults who are supposedly "singers"

[@goldyd144]

Yunjin is interesting. While her technique obviously favours more classical singing currently, there was a point in time where she was able to sing pop. On Produce48, she was often praised for her stable and powerful vocals, and all they sung on produce was pop songs. I don't think the issue with her current technique is that it's more accustomed to classical singing; I think that she forgot most of her training at Pledis/Source after she went back to the US for college. And when she was asked to come back for Lesserafim, it was back to square 1 for her. She's sounds amazing singing opera songs, but Lesserafim's songs are just not in her comfortable range and often have a lot of talk-singing to compensate for the less skilled vocalists in the group. Yunjin needs a proper vocal coach to help her tap into her pop singing technique again.

[@mimil5338]

A lot of the issues she has now she also had back then and you can see it watching her old lives or unedited practice clips (not the actual stage performance). I think PD48 editing and the fact that contestants for that season were vocally on the weaker side gave people a more favorable impression of her.

[@onlydbrasko]

lol do you even know waht sounding "amazing in opera" means? Real Opera singers don't use a mic whatsoever and take at least 3-4 years of classical opera training JUST to establish fundamentals. If she's amazing then Luciano Pavoratti must be Super-Duper-Out-Of-This-World-Avenger-Level-Amazing?

[@goldyd144]

@@onlydbrasko I never said she was a "real opera singer" or comparable to professionals. If it bothers you that I used the word "amazing", then that's fine. I'll clarify further: for a Kpop idol and non-professional, yes she's "amazing."

[@onlydbrasko]

@@goldyd144 She wouldn't be the lead singer of other top groups in Kpop including the ones in 5th gen. Thanks for showing your low-standards and desparatin to justify Hybe peddling substandard and uncooked meat as Wagyu meals because that's exactly what they're doing while other more established agencies take YEARS to find, select, AND THEN train their talents before.

[@goldyd144]

@@onlydbrasko I never said, nor implied, that she would be a "lead singer" in other groups. In fact, if anything I implied that she wouldn't considering that I said she lacks pop singing technique. Don't put words in my mouth now. I complimented her classical singing skills, and that's it. Anything else that you're saying is you projecting onto me because you have an issue with Hybe. I AM NOT a Hybe stan. I actually have a lot of issues with Hybe, including their vocal training. Or lack thereof, I should say. 👀 It's funny to me how polarizing Hybe groups can be to people. You can't say anything mean or nice about these groups without stans and shooters going out of their way to instigate an argument about it. Wagyu? Man, this really was not that deep lol 😂

[@David-tr4jl]

So tired of people excusing it as "Their choreo is so intense! Ofc they wouldn't sound good live!" Meanwhile Ateez, who also performed at Coachella, has FAR more demanding Choreo and sounded great live.

[@peonylarkspur645]

To be fair, if you rewatch ATEEZ’s set (and I have, multiple times, because I am trash) you can tell they’re pulling back on the choreo in some places to conserve energy. But they have such a strong presence on stage that it doesn’t really matter, and when my non-girl-group Stan friend watched the LSF set one of the first things she said was “why are they dancing so small?” ATEEZ has figured out how to keep their moves big and powerful without wasting energy, I think their choreo also generally does a better job leaving space for the vocalists to do their thing. None of this is meant to undermine the guys, because you still need to sound good-and they definitely delivered.

[@pacipanpen2785]

tbf, Ateez are men, and men in general have more stamina than women. but still doesn't excuse lsf's lack of vocal training tho

[@kathyesch7040]

sorry but a lot ateez member sound terrible live ngl.

[@David-tr4jl]

@@kathyesch7040 the worst ateez member sounds better than the best le sserafim member

[@getobbl]

@@kathyesch7040you just pulled this out your ass because they always sound good live 😭

[@c4chu]

it's so questionable that with undoubtedly sooo many trainees with years of training just waiting to debut, for some reason hybe/soumu decided to debut kazuha who had only 5 months of training and eunchae who barely had 1 year and nonetheless was very young (no hate to them at all since it's not their fault they were thrown into it). it's just a shame that the girls are suffering this outrage as an outcome of their company debuting them as teenagers for the sake of an aesthetic instead of experience and talent

[@jazmin1254]

Clue….Visuals lol

[@Spiderpunkrocks]

They prefer younger trainees, for example with min hee jin, she herself said that she didn't chose other source music trainees cause they are too old and her only option was minji, and i love her and new jeans is my ult group but admittedly she is the weakest vocal in the group. So with hybe having the same mindset of younger is better also went to source music to choose lsf members they would also end up taking a young, pretty, trainee with weak vocals just like minji but unfortunately they consisted majority of the group. I'm begging this companies for the love of God pls just debut trainees base on talent and not on age then we are not gonna have this problem😭😭

[@ZDubbed]

Yeah it’s just so disheartening honestly

[@averyatwell95]

​@@Spiderpunkrocks but why? Why do they want super young trainees? What's the benefit?

[@rosietales]

@@averyatwell95 It's way easier to rake on younger trainees' dreams and they are able to "keep" them for longer. If you were to take into account the average years a kpop group lives, which is around the 5 to 7 years (hence the 7 year curse is well known), debuting a group with 20-year-olds means there is a way bigger chance of the members leaving the company compared to if you were to debut 17 to 15/14 year olds. Of course there are different cases here and there but you're way more conscious of your decisions in your 20s, especially since your frontal lobe is totally developed at 25. Also, it might have to do with the constant necessity to bring "freshness" (I'm honestly tired of this word ngl) into kpop by bringing younger faces.

[@Tean-tm2lg]

It’s annoying to me that kpop, esp Hybe has blatantly disregarded vocals as a criteria for being a kpop idol. Feels like kpop is a complete joke, and the fans just accepting this look like fools. Singers should sing, you can’t convince me otherwise.

[@junglecat_rant]

Preach!

[@hafizishakhafiz7624]

You'll never find this issue in west music

[@TenderNoodle]

This literally isn’t true? 99% of K-pop groups have a majority of member who can sing fairly well, ONLY hybe has degraded that standard and clearly isn’t getting away with it, and even within hybe there are group who can sing like txt. I’m so tired of ppl acting like hybe having a few groups who can’t sing ≠ the great downfall of good K-pop vocals when like yesterday babymonster and kiss of life debuted with amazing live vocals

[@Sophia-wu9bn]

@@TenderNoodle What you said is true but the influence of HYBE is huge and also all around TikTok. That could literally alter what had been decent in K-pop to being in low average and that will reflect in future events in this industry and decline over time. It’s still preventable of the time we are now but what will happen in the future.

[@Jeezthatbitchsexy]

Hybe is the only company these days that are criticisite for bad vocals especially with le sserafim and illit the other companies has good vocalist like jyp sm even yg

[@atr10forever32]

Say what you want about the big three, but the recent groups all have great vocals. Baemon, treasure, riize, aespa, nmixx all have great to amazing vocalist. Even the weaker members have stable vocals. Hybe seems only interested in debuting groups that dance well.

[@zebethlia]

Which is unfortunate, because I wouldn't say HYBE has debut any memorable performance groups or dancers. They definitely arent terrible at all, but its not spectacular considering they don't care much for vocals.

[@Lalisa-manoBANGS-arestable]

​@@zebethliai agree, they only have 3-4 great dancers and all are from boy grp hybe didn't ever really debut a female idol with exception dancing (i think iroha is now but not on point of being one of best dancer) kazuha is one of most average main dancer and so is hanni

[@cattosakamotto]

"The song is not in their range!" - Performs songs in their range badly even if they're just standing still & use pre-recorded vocals in their concert. "The choreo is hard, they will of course have a hard time singing while dancing" - week 2 coachella has a toned down choreo but they're still out of breath & out of pitch just like in their week 1 performance. This just furthermore shows that they can't balance the two eventhough they aren't the only gg with a "hard" choreo. Them having a full core workout routine didn't even benefit them from having good breathing technique. "Blame the company not the girls!" - the girls posts in weverse already shows that the problem is them. Its already in their mindset of playing the victim & knowing the fact they their deranged fans will always defend them. Why can't some of you hold them accountable for their lack of effort in their vocals?? We're blaming BOTH. the company AND the girls. These are idols who earn ton shit of money, you can really tell that they're here for the sake of fame. "Give them time, they will definitely improve overtime" - Why do we always have to settle for the bare mimimum?? If I'm being honest, Kazuha got in because they saw that they can profit off of her ballet profession. Sakura & chaewon got scouted back due to their popularity as well as Yunjin & not for their talent. Eunchae debuted because they needed to cater to the young audience in kpop stans to push the "youthful" & "bubbly" image on her to again, profit off of her. No one in Le sserafim debuted for the sake of their talent, they all debuted because they saw the marketable level of the girls and how they fit the designated demand in the idol industry but NOT in the music industry. Idk why y'all always make up excuses. Why do y'all jave such low standards to call them "good" & "perfect"??? Their music is also nothing bit a generic pop song made for the sole purpose of virality & catchimg that tiktok hit. To anyome who likes this group, y'all love to settle for the bare miminum & most likely stanned them because of their marketable level as well as having short attention span.

[@ClubPuguin]

Now they have had more generic songs but to say all their music is that feels disingenuous.

[@ClubPuguin]

Like their debut mini album was very good.

[@ClubPuguin]

Most idols are cast for their marketable and how they can use them, then they worry about training their talent.

[@Verowinday777]

So negative, why did you even waste your time writing all of this sht?

[@Natasha_bazooca_mommy]

DAAAAAAAMN! But you are totally right

[@bingbong2272]

Even chaewon and yunjin can't pass as a lead vocalist of the big 3 company

[@blueraine21]

who tf cares about big 3 tho? 😆even now that HYBE stocks are in the dumps, its still bigger than big 3 combined..

[@AdrianComoro]

Chaewon ALMOST passed, she sounded the most stable out of the other members

[@mewsao]

truer words have never been said. some people criticize shuhua but she actually cares to improve and i think she's better than those two at least she could hold a single note live while dancing

[@averyatwell95]

Yup

[@ClubPuguin]

They can hold a note while dancing but it seems like a struggle for them to do consistently, even though they're more technically proficient vocalists it seems.

[@TaLuLuDAY]

Love Lesserafim concept, but their vocal is just not enough even for their own easy songs 😢

[@kemsari9969]

I am very happy, that Ateez performed at Cochella too and KILLED it with the vocals, so that all the non-Kpop-fans dont think, that all kpop groups are vocally as weak as Le Sserafim was. And yes, Hybe needs to change something with their vocal department. They never had the strongest vocalists, but the newer groups are just embarrassing -.- I mean, even YG, who always was the performance company of the Big3, teached their idols how to sing live...

[@northrnstar]

also, jongho even mentioned that he took classes right after the first weekend. sure it can be bc he has a more prominent role as ateez's main vocal, but all the members can perfectly hold their own with live singing.

[@Verowinday777]

I love Ateez but tbh they for sure have the stamina, but vocally only Jongho and San can project nicely as well as they both have a good support range, but others definitely have the skills..

[@kemsari9969]

@@Verowinday777 Then you should listen to their Cochella performance. I was very surprised by Seonghwa and Yeosang and even Wooyoung was good.

[@Verowinday777]

@@kemsari9969 They had always been stable tho, that’s what I have previously claimed, I already said that they have good stamina; stamina is generally obtained by practicing anyway.

[@katgreer6113]

@@Verowinday777 Exactly! Having stamina is not the same thing as being a good singer! I think a lot of K-Pop fans forget what actual good singing is. Being stable is *part* of it. But not the whole thing.

[@ive_zerob1rose]

Lesserafim definitely need more vocal training if they want to be taken seriously as musical artists. Most people will not respect a singer who seemingly can't sing and Lesserafims concept is kind of a double edged sword as their fierce and confident personas are loved and it's what makes them stand out from other groups in the industry BUT it's also starting to work against the girls. People will see Lesserafim, their fierce and "I don't care" attitude in their music and then will look at their live vocals and think "so they brag about making it look easy but can't sing?" The girls (especially Sakura) are being criticised as being unprofessional, a clip of them talking about the meaning behind easy is resurfacing as people are now questioning how they have "the nerve" to say that they're so good at their job even though they struggle to sing their own songs and Sakura's statement after Coachella only helped to add more fuel to the fire as many (including myself) found the statement to be giving "we tried our best so it doesn't matter if it's actually good or not good" energy. If HYBE wants to ensure that Lesserafims image as musical artists isn't damaged and remains well received, the vocal lessons need to come ASAP. Otherwise the criticism will turn into anger which will turn into resentment and finally explode into a full on hate train. Vocal improvement isn't just about their vocals anymore, it's about their image and how respected they'll be.

[@Andher4bp]

The craziest thing is that every time a group goes viral for its bad vocals, the group is from hybe... that company just want money, don't even put the minimum effort to train their idols properly. Embarrassing.

[@Cryforme-]

Yunjin's case honestly surprised me the most? Like idk how her vocals sounded soo worse like Sakura Kazuha Eunchae ones were obvious but Yunjin-

[@expensivepink7]

yesss i had the same thoughts

[@tenyharyati9355]

exactly, she has the most decent vocal but yea, it took me by surprised too.

[@User-y5w5w]

I am rooting for yunjin .. Hope she take singing seriously again. 😩 Hybe always focuses on tiktok challenge marketing rather than vocal training.

[@harliyana]

I do not get it. Most of SKZ is going for vocal training until today, out of their own pocket, from outside vocal trainers (the some one Baekhyun is paying for until today too), it shows that any idol CAN get vocal training if they want to. Yes, kpop companies SHOULD train them until they are competent enough but if all else fail, they themselves should know their own strength and weakness and address to it. I do not get justification of ‘oh they are super famous thus super busy!’. Han has said before, as an example, Seungmin, despite whatever schedule they have, will make time for his vocal lessons. I am a physician, I am taking exam, but I am working as usual, doing at least 6 oncalls a month which stretches to 33 hours of no sleep, and I HAVE to make time for my classess and exams. We have to deal with what we have. The fact that they can do better, means that they only need to reach out to a vocal instructor and learn and practice. I have seen videos of KoF, ITZY and NMIXX doing their dance practice with live singing. It can be done. Just practice while dancing. You can do it.

[@shinigagamimi]

is it really most of skz? we only know of 4 members as far as i know who still attend singing lessons and they didnt do that immediately after they debuted. it took them multiple years until they started looking elsewhere for a good teacher.

[@soona22573]

yeah I'm not buying "it;s the company issue" thing, it's just le sserafim - and similar groups - know that their fans will still worship them no matter how low their skills are so why the effort?

[@mes6759]

@@shinigagamimi You have forgotten Woojin, their main vocalist, left...maybe during that time they didn't see the need but after Woojin left they realize they need to do something so fans won't think the group doesn't have a main vocalist and is now lacking in the vocal department..

[@shinigagamimi]

@@mes6759 even with woojin they were lacking vocally. none of the members have exceptional singing skill. good enough for the songs they need to be able to sing but nothing special at the end of the day. seungmin however has become very pleasant to listen to. i liked his episode on lee mujin service. but he isnt some kind of prodigy either

[@mes6759]

@@shinigagamimi I didn't even say they have exceptional skills..😂.. I'm just saying my opinion why they didn't see the need to take voice lessons at first as they used to have a dependable main vocalist...we all know how important the role of a main vocalist is, he/she usually get the most lines...

[@whereisjustice5112]

Just like HYBE slogan, Believe in Money, not in Quality.

[@AdrianComoro]

EXACTLY

[@nikki.exosnoona]

*mic drop*

[@ClubPuguin]

No lol

[@lena21ever2]

I'm not that surprised, as an old army, I've seen BTS members struggle with singing since their debut, and i haven't seen that much improvement Hybe is not a company that focus on vocals unfortunately, they focus on concepts I don't see Le Sserafim getting better thanks to the company, they might need to look for independent vocal lessons if they want to get better Hybe will NEVER give them vocal training, for them they're famous enough, even with the backlash, as it's still advertisment dor them Im feeling extremely bad for them and any group under hybe

[@user23q0]

Could be so true Like hybe rlly don't care abt vocals Since any group.tgt debuts from them will be regarded as popular already And wen their artist end up getting hate for vocals makes another whole issue. Like I wish the members (e.g eunchae) would tale a break from mc and her star diary to pratice on her vocals cause it seems to be raking space from her improving and might be worse if she's still on school.

[@rkdo9554]

As a former BTS bandwagoner myself, buying VIP tickets to 2 BTS concerts were the things I regret most in my whole concert attendance career.

[@someonethereQ]

ex "armys" will find a way to make anything about bts hybe isn't the company that debuted bts, bighit is, and hybe is a subsidiary created out of bts' surplus labour earnings (what was exploited out of them) so acting like hybe as a conglomerate is responsible for them is pure delusion (this is no defence of hybe however). it's also insane to compare bts to other groups affiliated with hybe. there has been so much improvement from ALL of the vocal line, the only issue really is jimin's slight vocal damage and as a male vocalist who damaged my own voice before, it doesn't sound permanent. at the end of the day, jimin is used to degrade the rest of bts and fundamentally the "criticism" he receives from kpop fans is uninformed at best and transphobic nonsense nonsense at worst. more than anything, bts has always been a rap-based group that has its roots in rap, hip-hop and their rnb vocals are their best. using them as a comparison for a group like le ssera.

[@someonethereQ]

@@rkdo9554 also, don't lie, you're an exol, im sure u were busy during the break wings project, go worry about exo 🤷‍♂️

[@farnm9985]

​@@someonethereQsomebody could stan those 2 groups? Are you so consumed in this exo vs bts fans that is so ridiculous that you think no armys could be exols? I have a friend that likes both, stans both and can honestly see that each of them have their strong and weak points.

[@rel4998]

Coming from someone who was once classically trained, you'd be surprised at how much the rules of basic support transfer well to all styles - but it's "use it or lose it". If you get out of practice, you arent guaranteed to have the same amount of skill you had a year ago and you build up from scratch again. Not sure what hybe did but yunjin would have to put in a lot of effort to get back to where she was pre-debut

[@horizonkyun7203]

eh, i’ve heard a lot of classically trained people give some uncomfortably head-voiced and vibrato-heavy covers of pop songs 😭 but yeah it’s typically more of a style issue than skill.

[@seenjeans]

I think that’s the problem; what HYBE did was they didn’t do anything at all to help her. Yunjin had has to relearn everything and I can tell it’s not entirely working…

[@Ash-ir1td]

Apparently, according to the info Min HeeJin leaked, LE SSERAFIM had very little training time. Only about 6 months. It makes sense when you think about it.

[@shinigagamimi]

that excuse only tracks for eunchae and kazuha. yunjin was a trainee for multiple years before that and its the same for chaewon and sakura who also worked as idols in izone for 2 years. all the training those 3 had shows in yunjin and chaewon imo. what the deal with sakuras singing is i do not know. honestly eunchae and kazuha are the only ones where its understandable considering the amount of time they trained. but theyve been idols for 2 years now and thats a lot of time to improve for beginner singers and im not seeing nearly enough improvement in those 2

[@ClubPuguin]

Because their not getting their training for vocals even in izone they left them on their own to figure it out from what I've seen.

[@ProphetMisfit09]

@@shinigagamimi Yunjin was in america for some time and wasn't a trainee at that time. She didn't expect nor was she preparing to be in a group when she was hired by Hybe/Source.

[@shinigagamimi]

@@ProphetMisfit09 she was a trainee at sm and pledis before she went back to america. she was also on produce 48. she had time to train. and when she moved back to korea she still had a couple of months and its not like she had to start from 0 since she could already sing. its also been 2 years since her debut and she hasnt shown any improvement. at some point excuses dont work anymore

[@ProphetMisfit09]

@@shinigagamimi I'm aware. As I said, she wasn't a trainee when she was hired and called for le sserafim. She went from training every day to going home and doing none, it is very easy to lose some of your training in that span of time. And then being a group for 2 years doesn't mean... As much as you think. They have very little down time, they're constantly preparing comebacks, tours, making music, learning dances, doing press runs, fan events. Most of those are done in the same day or week. Even if they do have vocal training, there is no telling how stressful that is on their voice and vocals.

[@Bangch4nslaptop]

Chaewon main vocalist and main dancer and backbone of the group

[@goldyd144]

Sakura *missed a schedule recently due to stress. Not surprising, considering everything that's going on at Hybe currently and how it all has reignited the hate for Lesserafim in Korea. She's basically the face for Japanese idols, and there's this xenophobic sentiment that "Japanese *Kpop idols can't sing", and more Japanese Kpop idols are under scrutiny and getting compared to her constantly. I couldn't imagine being under that kind of pressure. It is rumored that she started taking vocal lessons before Coachella, and I hope she continues to do so because her confidence at the performances was a breath of fresh air! I sincerely hope the best for Lesserafim. Hybe clearly isn't doing much to garner their potential. Based on the timeline of their training and subsequent debut, it's not shocking that they have these flaws. As always, criticism is fine; hate is not. *Added clarification for any confusion and corrections.

[@mimil5338]

Sakura missed a schedule yesterday due to not feeling well but was present for an offline fansign in China today. I don't think she's currently on hiatus.

[@nnnn-sc2im]

the xenophobic comments towards japanese idols has been pissing me off and the fact that a lot of international fans have been agreeing and helping fuel this agenda

[@goldyd144]

@@mimil5338 You're right! I misremembered the announcement for her missing the schedule as a hiatus. Will edit that in! 👍🏼

[@amiboacid7183]

Oh please, did we forget Produce? She is the first one to claim Japanese idols have inferior skills. You made your bed now lay in it

[@goldyd144]

@@amiboacid7183 "Inferior skills" is different from stating that all Japanese idols can't sing. Context also matters. Most of the Japanese idols on Produce were from AKB48 and HTK48, who don't have the same strict idol training system that many of the Korean trainees did on the show. When Sakura said that, it's because she knew that her fellow Japanese contestants recieved little training under the same system she came from. She never said all Japanese idols are inferior to Kpop idols in skills, and I'mma need fans to learn the difference.

[@coricognitions]

Yeah singing the line "damn I really make it look easy" while not, in fact, making it look easy is pretty unfortunate.

[@kasia3582]

There WAS a backtrack on their first weekend, but for whatever technical reason, the backtrack was not hooked up to the livestream. People at the event heard backing, people watching the livestream did not. It's a really, really unfortunate mistake.

[@elisniji5436]

When Yunjin was a trainee under Pledis she was SO good (she was so praised in produce and we can say why, she was really good). Then she signed with Source, under Hybe, and we all know that Hybe don't care about vocal lessons; even Jungkook said long ago that he didnt take vocal lessons bc he preferred training himself lol (how can you when you are not a vocal coach and you are not a very good singer?). It's so sad bc Hybe knows it doesnt need good vocal or anything bc his fame and his wealth can ANYTHING, dumb fans will stick with everything Hybe throws up bc it's hybe, so they dont care.

[@ennalabe3.0]

I feel a little sad of see many videos about le sserafim bad singing and not see videos praising who did well. ateez did very well in coachella. we say that we want more good singers in kpop but we don't talk enough about them.

[@TenderNoodle]

I agree. While criticism of le sserafim is valid I see so many people saying “no groups can sing anymore” and hating on them without even acknowledging ATEEZ was at cochella, and if they do it’s done to directly insult le sserafim. The amount of non-ateez fans praising them was sad

[@zorasbae]

@@TenderNoodlethe rose and 88rising set which had bibi and Jackson were so good to and everyone’s ignoring them 😢

[@zoe.365.94]

I agree about sakura's perfomance in coachella, she did her part well, better than the previous encore perfomance. But, yeah, they still had a lot to do, at least to sing their own song.... And I agree about the member ARE NOT LAZY. If HYBE can't be expected to provide vocal training, I hope the member can get vocal training outside HYBE

[@pikachubread]

i like le sserafim as a group, but i'm not a big fan of their title tracks. they're good performers and don't slack when it comes to dancing, but... doesn't that also mean they're being lazy with their singing/vocal training? like you said, they should at least be able to sing their own song. but it seems like the songs aren't in their range, so they probably need better song choices

[@ClubPuguin]

Antifragile being the best title!

[@zoe.365.94]

@@pikachubread Wow, okay I got your point. Because I remember that hwang minhyun (former NUEST/Wannaone) get his vocal training outside HYBE, he took the initiative by himself

[@mimil5338]

I actually don't think the lack of backtrack was a deliberate choice on Hybe's part, but a technical issue from Coachella's side. Many artists, Kpop or western, perform with a backtrack. LSF did have one too, evident by the fancams. (BTW Coachella takes down all uploads of the livestream for all artists, I don't think it's Hybe) Thank you for being respectful as always 😊 I personally liked the performance, but I agree that things will have to change if Hybe has any care for the longevity of the group or the health of the members.

[@lastmimzy2606]

I don't normally listen to other groups but this whole hybe drama has me checking out their artists and i noticed that though the music is trendy and nicely produced, they don't make the music with their artists' musical talent in mind. Like the way they sing certain songs should reflect their talent and abilities so they can be confident even on a bad day. Now technics may also be underdeveloped but Yujin not being able to sing her own song just makes me confused.

[@moongirl8807]

It's even worse with ILLIT. They took the vitality of NJ and cranked it up to the max. I can't even blame the girls for singing a bad encore (they have one great singer and one OK from what I could hear) bc THERE'S NOTHING TO SING. The whole Mini album is under 10 min and the title Magnetic is like 2 minutes where half of it is spent singing the repetitive Tiktok hook "you you you you like it's magnetic baebaebaebae" and so on (and it's mostly backtrack bc it's one of those edited choruses where all of them sing if you know what I mean so they're just akwardly lip-syncing over it not knowing if they should waste their breath on it). Honestly watch one of their encores there's like 3 lines to sing and even those have to be mostly carried by one singer. They really only care about the sped up version being able to chart on Tiktok

[@Helpmesaverenji]

I really want to hear a more in-depth analysis of eunchae’s voice from you bc i feel like many are okay with her vocals or dont really pay attention bc she sings with more support than the others, but sometimes when i listen to her vocals it really seems like she is tone-deaf, very similar case to shuhua

[@ClubPuguin]

Her issue in singing might be the thing making her sing flat.

[@skittydreamsd4766]

Omg they are so bad… When BoA bombed this bad in Japan she immediately went on a hiatus and trained really hard to become a VERY stable solo singer/dancer. The fact that these girls are in a group and sound like this is unacceptable.

[@nubelinda]

The sad thing is that boA was not even that bad.. she was only 13 and did great and even better than LSF😭 the fact that people hate on people who actually know how to sing baffles me (exp: aespa and nmixx)

[@skittydreamsd4766]

@@nubelinda Actually at her Japan showcase before she officially debuted she really did sound this bad. She was unstable the whole time and the vocal cracking during her high note something else lol. Even the big producers in Japan told her she needed like 10 more years of training. I’m sure the video is still out there 😅

[@nubelinda]

@@skittydreamsd4766 which one though? I saw one from some Japanese interview where she sang ID PEACE B

[@skittydreamsd4766]

@@nubelinda She did sing the Japanese version of ID Peace B it was her showcase to test the waters before she could debut. I don’t think there was an interview though?

[@skittydreamsd4766]

@@nubelinda Literally trying to find the video, but I think it might have been deleted. There are snippets of it on her more recent Because I Want To Talk interview talking about her stage fright. It’s not the whole thing, but at least I can say it exists lol. I hate that they cut out the voice crack though.

[@Pinkclouds512]

Also, Eunchae’s voice always sounds drastically flat. Is that just me??

[@ChloeBx]

She doesn't know how to breathe properly when singing so she sounds breathless 😢 that's why it sounds deep but so flat

[@ketakikhobragade7168]

​@@ChloeBx we can clearly tell that she never practice

[@Merui021]

I also think that it stems from the fact that when she sings her lines she just.. sings them like she's reading from somewhere. There's no flavor or interpretation to the lines so even if she sings in tune, there's something missing and it comes out sounding kind of flat.

[@simpleisme8]

idols main job is to sing and that's the department that this group missed.

[@meshxa]

I think that Chaewon and Yunjin are also very nervous because they know that other members can't do a decent job. It is hard to give all your best when you are thinking about something else, especially if it is something negative. It is easier to be relaxed and have fun when everyone is at least decent (mamamoo and aespa encores are great, they are just having fun, no need to worry about embarasement or negative comments). Chaewon and Yunjin are doing way better when they are by themselves, especially Yunjin

[@AmanKhan-tp5vl]

Chaewon is much better❤

[@billliealim]

In their case, it seems like they’re both aware how the rest aren’t vocally competent so it kinda affects their own performance as well

[@dips92]

Sorry but chaewon is doing way better than any members right now either go for singing, dancing, sp or entertainment if only the company was decent ...

[@arijeanz]

i agree, i feel chaewon is the more affected of the two because her demeanor and the quality of her performance changes immensely depending on if she's alone or not

[@lilith5_i]

The difference between the original coachella live audio and the fancams is crazy

[@nikki.exosnoona]

i feel sorry & sad for these girls. the criticism about their vocals is justifiable but the hate & the harassment is not. i think it's best if HYBE put them in hiatus for a few months let these girls take a break & give them proper vocal training. then give them one amazing comeback to show their improvement. i'm sure everyone will shut up about this & will definitely gain more fans.

[@vivitrumanto]

How the standard of being a kpop singer now is so low, but it becomes so normal for the baby fans, they don't care if their idols sound bad or not. I mean, I don't feel it's fair for those who have a dream to be a singer and have a real talent, but couldn't make it for just being less attractive. Even the survival shows nowadays are so problematic, the votes can be bought and manipulated to favor certain contestants, just because they fit the beauty standard in South Korea. It's ok if they got so lucky to debut despite of lack of singing abilities or dancing skill, but I can equally respect them if they can work hard to improve over times. But sadly, a lot of fans and even the members think our criticisms as malicious comments, they can't tell apart which one is hate comment and which one is constructive criticism. I can't believe they aren't able to see their shortcomings after watching their own replay, and admit they are indeed lack of something. Chaewon being the most stable one has to carry the whole performance, it's not fair if the other members do not even think it wasn't ok and do not even care to work hard to at least be decent. That's not how you work as a team, Chaewon is being dragged down and I feel so bad for her for receiving some hate comments.

[@Hope-du4gw]

It's not low, especially when 5th gen got tons of vocal groups

[@Sophia-wu9bn]

@@Hope-du4gw Yes, it’s just being overshadowed with HYBE groups

[@cococharuru3677]

I agree, I feel sad for Chaewon because she did really well in all the performances in Coachella Especially in The Great Mermaid performance 👌❤ and she is the one who constantly has the best live vocals but she receives some hate comments for the high note of Fire in the belly, when that was her only notable mistake :/

[@JulianaRusso-oe8qo]

Yunjin is probably the worst main vocalist when it comes to encores and live singing

[@mathhenri-xy5fh]

It's sad. She was so good in Produce Days

[@JulianaRusso-oe8qo]

​@@mathhenri-xy5fh fr she had the potential to be one of the best 4th gen main vocalists

[@bebebongBaebae]

Nah that's Lia. Yunjin still have some techniques to rely on sometime while Lia has none. It's sad as both have beautiful tone, talent and potential but their agency couldn't care less about developing them furthermore

[@AdrianComoro]

Change it to Chaewon?

[@JulianaRusso-oe8qo]

@@bebebongBaebae humm i think Lia sound very decent live at least in the itzy stage practices

[@mariapiccioni5974]

Honestly with how much people are (rightfully) calling out their lack of skill and training in vocals, I can't imagine Hybe NOT doing something about it and providing good lessons for them. I honestly imagine that while for Sakura and Kazuha it will still be a struggle, the other three members will become more stable. ...It's just unfortunate that it had to get to THIS level for a huge conglomerate to take the basics of music seriously

[@Thins_Are_SUS]

It's possible that HYBE won't take it seriously until LSF legitimately falls of the charts and loses protective fans to a such a degree that they become unprofitable, which I don't wish them. I don't think it will go that bad, as most fans they currently have likely aren't interested in vocals, but rather personalities, or looks, or dancing.

[@TenderNoodle]

@@Thins_Are_SUSthat seems most likely given how much hybe is going through legally rn, they probably don’t have time and money to invent in training them for months without any comebacks like starship did with IVE

[@ERINHORAE]

It's incredible how Hybe can't train a singer who is at least decent, but putting all the blame on the company isn't right either, these idols have enough money to go after a professional in the field. No idol works 24 hours a day every day. What's shameful is that there are idols who have been in the industry for over 10 years and manage to become more horrible than they already were, and I'm not just talking about Sakura.

[@kevinlewis8763]

True Their bad vocals show how passionate they are towards singing. It's clear they just wanted to become famous.

[@DP-mv7ph]

if i remember correctly Baekhyun from exo said that he still takes vocal lessons even tho hes like 10 years into his career.. todays idols just dont care anymore lmaooo

[@annanowak9620]

Y'all are talking too much about this even tho you don't stan them. For a second, I want you to stop talking about vocals, but about the hate that they are receiving. It's too much. Everyday they are harassed and bullied by people. What have they done to you that you want to send them death threats? Why are kpop fans do concerned about their vocals but not the hate that they are receiving? Why not making a video about those hateful comments(they receive hate even for breathing, for talking, for existing.Stop it. You dont realize that you are a bull rn. They havent killrd your family. Stop sending them death threta.)? I just hope these hateful comments won't affect their mental health. But as long as its not their fav its okay, right? Because I swear, I cannot open twt or yt without seeing a negative comment about the girls. Why aren't you talking about the hate that has gotten so far. At this point it's not about vocals I cant even imagine myself commenting bad things about other groups. How can YOU do that? Watching their videos if you don't stan them and then hate them? Go outside and touch some grass.

[@goldenhourss]

@@DP-mv7phbecause baekyun is a VOCALIST. he has top notch technique unlike 99% idols😂

[@CHEEZE369]

@@annanowak9620you don’t have to Stan a group to criticize them it’s literally music. If anything YOU need to touch grass. If they can’t sing then they cant fucking sing. Period. Grow up. And not everyone who criticize them are sending death threats stop generalizing

[@senpaijecho]

Hybe always refuses to give their idols vocal coaches. It happened with BTS, it happened with TXT and now it's happening with Lesserafim. Dancing shouldn't be their only focus. The members deserve to be coached so they can reach their full potential so they don't sound like they're dy1ng every time they sing standing still

[@msadent1825]

I think if they are going to earn millions of dollars, they should be worthy of this huge money. High schoolers can do better vocally.

[@ynachoi5072]

the thing about them not having proper/enough vocal training is not only Hybe/the company's fault.. as a kpop idol, you choose that job, you do anything to improve your own assets and not just rely on your company because lets admit it, a company is there to exploit you(especially in the kpop industry), once your contract with them ends or when you are in deep shit(scandal) its very rare that they will back you up. there are a lot of idols that decided to get their private vocal trainings to improve themselves, but clearly, le sserafim seems to be contented with the fame they currently have and think its enough (some even think its arrogant)

[@spacespace652]

Honestly, the video and the comments sum it up, but it's just worrisome that their skills are genuinely regressing at such a quick rate. Their coachella improvement feels like a bandaid solution to a larger problem... I hope they have a strong mindset with their careers because they do have a lot to offer while they're idols.

[@TenderNoodle]

Exactly! Stagnation would be bad enough, but the fact that their time at hybe has been making them actively worse is unacceptable

[@Yunku-Chan]

I wish HYBE would give them, not only proper vocal training but also higher songs. Let's face it, they're wasting the potential of the backbone vocals of the group by pushing this "overly confident girls power song in low register"... 😑 And the way their songs go from low register to punctual high notes makes the girls struggle to hit them. HYBE sets them up for vocal failure.

[@KHADYDiop-ib7bu]

Now their reputation is tarnished forever their bad singing was on the news for days that will at least affect their popularity in South Korea some Koreans were calling them « ar group ».They should’ve been trainees for at least two more years before debuting. They are not ready but hybe only cares about money. Idk about y’all but I would be so embarrassed to look at other idols in the eyes knowing that my singing is mediocre

[@ClubPuguin]

Idk they'll still be big despite that so doubt Hybe cared

[@belaytriks]

As a professional myself, I think, it is time they take the bussiness in their hands as any other professional in any other field. Their company has prooved they will not be send to vocal lessons so the members need to pay for their own pockets for them and use all the weight they can have into create for themselves the time for their classes and to improve on them. After all this riot I would expect to take an eight to ten months "hiatus" or even a year for their next comeback and return with the basics down and more suited for their voices songs. They can keep their modeling, maybe do some dancing stages, nothing that takes them that much time for them to really focus in develops their skills as singers. In most jobs it is not the responsability of the company to provide for the development of their workers in the basics of their work, and for them is singing. It is time for them to hold accountability for their own work and it is so sad Coachella has to be the reason for that.

[@fajar4741]

It's even funnier when their stans keep defending them by bringing vocal range and voice type shits.

[@laharichowdhury9395]

Someone actually had the audacity to tell me that my standards were too high because I'm a fan of SHINee and that it is all nostalgia bait. Like WHAT??? Even if an idol is not able to sing properly due to choreography, they should be able to while standing still at the very least. Have fun, enjoy the encore, but atleast sing properly?

[@belphieyiu]

WTF is nostalgic bait? These ls apologists be making up stuff istg-

[@tsboyzzz]

I think this might be the reason for the debut in six members. Because Garam's voice might be enough to help reduce the parts of the members' songs that can't cannot singing.But now there are five people but their singing skill gap is too big. It's so obvious. During the transition between singing from line to other member lines in the song

[@Nameless_mixes]

These conversations always make me wonder what the group would sound like if Garam was still a member. She was only 16 and the company had enough trust in her vocal abilities that she had the most lines in “Sour Grapes”. And if she improved over the last two years, she could’ve helped Yunjin and Chaewon anchor the group’s vocals. But we’ll obviously never know what could have been because some buIIy got jealous of her. Anyways, this was a great analysis. I always respect you for your professionalism in assessing even less proficient vocalists compared to many people who will just bash on them without much insight as to what exactly is going wrong. HYBE seriously has to hire a vocal coach. Their best vocal groups are arguably: 1. Seventeen 2. GFriend 3. Fromis_9 4. BTS 5. Maybe TWS or BoyNextDoor (I’m honestly not familiar enough with either group to make a concrete determination) 3/5 were acquired either by purchasing other companies or buying out contracts. While I don’t expect the same level of vocal prowess as SME, RBW, or Starship’s artists (plus Cube’s boy groups) to appear over night, they need to reconsider which trainees they accept and/or how they divide time spent on training certain skills. Yes, dance skills are important in the current generation. But there’s no longevity there. Plenty of older groups have attested to how difficult it is to keep up with the demands for intense choreography (just what the behind the scenes footage from SNSD’s “Lil Touch” music video). Your body gives out eventually. And then what? If you don’t have a voice to rely on, you could easily be out of a career. I hope Le Sserafim gets the training they need because you have Yunjin, Chaewon, and Eunchae holding a lot of potential with Sakura and Kazuha demonstrate the work ethic needed to also improve greatly.

[@Saladfork1929]

Gfriend > Fromis is kinda crazy 😭. Yuju’s amazing, don’t get me wrong, but the other 5 got HARD CARRIED by her consistently during their time as a group & frankly the Viviz girls wouldn’t have survived their debut as a group if they didn’t improve post-disbandment. Fromis has some weaker singers, but for the most part they’re all pretty solid-great.

[@Verowinday777]

Bffr Gfriend only had Yuju

[@inplane9970]

Yeah Garam was a bridge between Chaewon and Yunjin with the rest of the group. She's flexible enough to sing vocally challenging parts, but can fill in for whatever line distribution is needed.

[@Nameless_mixes]

@@Saladfork1929That’s definitely a fair assessment. I might be bringing the average of the group up higher than it should because of how amazing Yuju is.

[@dodolgarpet]

@@Saladfork1929 To me, VIVIZ only improved after contract termination kinda confirmed the assumption that Source Music didn't provide them with enough vocal lessons during their time as a group. Yuju is the only one that has a private coach and she's the one that taught all the other members, but that's too much of a burden to put on a Main Vocalist, frankly speaking. Even after signing with her new agency (Konnect), Yuju said that her first mission is to get back in training with her long-time vocal coach.

[@inplane9970]

Its just so sad that the producers of LSFM's songs are so talented and make amazing songs, but it seems so disconnected from the group itself. All if their songs sound amazing because of autotune and post-production. You can hear the amount of autotune in all of their voices it almost sounds robotic at times. The fact that they were chosen to rep KPop at Coachella is a bit odd.

[@WaitingForTheHook]

Eh, you really couldn't until their last mini album where it was on there as a style choice. Before that they hid it as well as your typical group.

[@kaelynsmith1242]

A lot of western artist still have vocal coaches after become famous just like athletes still train once they make a team. So even if a group was given vocal training during their trainee period they still need it once they debut

[@ohslytherin94]

Honestly, as if Hybe tried to make Chaewon like Winter. She's a main vocalist but she really needs someone like Yoo Young-jin to improve her singing ability. When agency lyrics distributed among members, they will pick carefully. But unfortunately, not with Le Sserafim

[@AntonyN]

I feel like classical technique and classical style are mixed up too often. Proper classical technique should allow you to sing ANYTHING. Not just opera. The great opera singers sung other genres as well, mostly at private gigs and bookings and not on official stages. Classical technique (cuz I can't cover everything), is mostly just learning proper diaphragm engagement, release of tension, a low larynx, and how to manipulate the tongue and palate to serve the tone. Easy to learn, very, very hard to master. Classical style is the trills often heard in opera, vibrato on every line, men staying in chest voice and using head voice sparingly, women staying in head voice and only utilizing chest voice on low notes, etc. I urge everyone who reads this comment to listen to any of the great opera singers, and using your imagination, remove all the stylistic elements and picture them singing a modern day pop song. They could do it. There are even clips of Whitney Houston, Patti Labelle, and most recently Beyonce singing opera songs/in classical styles, and while they aren't perfect, because they're not classical singers, they're pretty damn good. Why? Because they have technique. Good technique. The idea that classical training doesn't translate well to other genres is not only false, but I feel is the reason why so many female singers these days have no chest voice whatsoever. And because I don't see the need in naming anyone specifically, cuz stans in general just take that as an opportunity to spread hate, please seek out a Maria Callas recording and listen to her low notes. That is how a soprano chest voice should sound. Not airy, muffled, and inaudible. Others would be Renata Tebaldi, Claudia Muzio, Luisa Tetrazzini, and Geraldine Farrar.

[@horizonkyun7203]

disagree. i feel like it kinda diminishes the art of singing to act like different styles don’t present unique challenges. a low larynx is literally NOT a characteristic of pop or R&B singing, it would completely change the tonal quality! sure, the best of the best can make the switch, but that’s because they’re knowledgeable of their own instrument and how to adjust to different styles. if you take a person who has NEVER sung pop and make them sing mariah carey, it’s not gonna sound right at all. (also most “classically trained” people aren’t successful opera singers. so it’s gonna be harder for them to make adjustments).

[@AntonyN]

@@horizonkyun7203 The best of the best opera singers had such specific control over their instruments that they were able to make such changes on the fly. Proper classical training, which most of the current gen of opera singers lack, gives this control. You can choose how much chest voice/head voice to engage and thus the desired tone is delivered. The idea that classical singers only sung classical music is so strange. The different genres still have their different styles, I never denied that, but basic opera technique (diaphragm engagement, release of tension, tongue and palate manipulation, low larynx) benefits all genres of singing. Of course for utmost perfection the style of the genre has to be learned as well and that takes time. But for a male opera singer, a good one, that learns how to sing their entire range in chest voice, as well as having a well developed falsetto, what pop singers refer to as belting should be easy. The same would be possible for a well developed female opera singer though she’d have to go through more training to engage the chest voice muscle higher up in her range since they usually stay in head voice. This is why Whitney Houston, a gospel singer, could sing pop with ease. Gospel, especially black gospel, has roots in classical music. This why despite not being classically trained, her, Patti Labelle, and Beyonce could sing classically quite well. A low larynx especially is the harbinger of power and depth to a voice, it’s the much better alternative as opposed to the harsh nasality many pop singers suffer from having too high of larynx among tension in other places. When I say a low larynx, I’m not talking about that mushy woofy sound many current opera singers have from shoving their tongues down. That aside, the low larynx is still disputed. Some of the great opera singers believed it floated relatively freely, but through relieving tension in the tongue and throat it no longer jutted upward, giving the appearance of it being “low.”

[@Blueishhman]

This is unrelated, but I would love if you would do a video on Billlie. They're very talented and have very strong vocalists.

[@chayo4537]

And cignature and pixy

[@m.z1256]

i was waiting for your opinions on this

[@user23q0]

Well ig until the next comeback We shall see if source music and hybe really dedcied to give them serius training or just dont care anymore from this point abt their vocals

[@AdrianComoro]

Me too, I will not listen to them until their next comeback.

[@ClubPuguin]

I will listen if their song comes on a playlist but the live performances will definitely be an even bigger struggle with improvment.

[@ClubPuguin]

*no improvement

[@kevinlewis8763]

How can they improve in just one week, which they didn't do in years?? And how can they even sing while dancing when they couldn't even sing properly while standing????

[@cattosakamotto]

The only reason why Yunjin & Chaewon managed to look more of a stronger vocalist is because the other 3 literally have non-existent vocal skills. Put these two main & lead in. Aespa, Nmixx & Purple Kiss, they won't even manage to get the lead vocalists position rather sub. Lowest of the low.

[@mylovechoerry2233]

They wouldn't even get realistically with people like Bae and Giselle.

[@ketakikhobragade7168]

​@@mylovechoerry2233 chaewon is objectively better than bae and Giselle yall mys doing too much now

[@cococharuru3677]

Chaewon and Giselle are both on a similar level, just Chaewon has shown more control in her head voice/falsetto And Giselle has shown more control in lower notes Bae is a little lower than them, but still shows a lot of skills

[@miaschiapet]

Can we also get a video about Itzy recent vocal stints with Lia gone temporarily it shocked me to see Chaeryeong take on a good portions of high notes and belts. Chae’s my bias has improved greatly over time with her singing and confidence but I feel there has been a massive jump of what’s being expected of her

[@ggstan2439]

?? Chaeryong already got belts and high notes even before Lia was gone. And I don’t want to be that btch but she never sound good on them. I would rather it not be a part of the song if it’s not going to sound good. Was the producer on drgs or something?

[@shymoons]

I agree so much with this and would also love to see a video on it! Chae is my bias too and I just hope she's been handling a such a big change like that okay.

[@minhngocphan9288]

I don’t agree on the backtrack things. In week 1, there was definitely backing vocal for their performances, but it was small enough for audiences to hear their real vocal. In week 2, the backtrack was so loud, we could barely hear them singing, in result the overall performance feels acceptable.

[@ClubPuguin]

Yeah though in person it seemed more balanced most of the time.

[@janny25]

It sad how hybe doesn't care about their wellbeing. With the whole wanting to destroy Aespa, it feels like they sent them to have that title of "fastest Coachella I don't remember what thing" They didn't care how many hate comments they would get, they just wanted the effin title at the expense of the members' mental health and reputation. They're so great at dancing! Their choreos are so good! Just give them songs when they can show more that strength and vocal lessons.

[@inplane9970]

The worst part is that Aespa isn't even looking in HYBE's direction. Drama is an absolute bop and is one of the best comebacks of 2023. They've found their concept and now they're basically untouchable amongst 4th gen.

[@alexandragabitto2573]

Idols deserve better than this negligence. I can’t help but feel like HYBE set these poor girls up for failure with this mess along with the New Jeans and ILLIT debacle. How many more groups are they gonna churn out on a conveyor belt? Side-eyeing HYBE SO hard 😒

[@HappyMatt12345]

Honestly, I completely agree with everything here, but I just want to say I'm really glad you took the time to point out that criticism is not inherently a sign of disrespect. I think a lot of fans fall into the trap of either responding to criticism as though it were malicious or defending their favorite idols from criticism, and funnily enough the latter group often employ one of the two most frequent fallacies I see on the internet as a whole: "too much criticism!" and "they're putting time and effort into their work just for you to criticize it!". Criticism is a necessary part of any discipline and necessary to grow as a person overall and not only that it's completely unavoidable if your work goes into the public eye. Criticism can be constructive or destructive and the difference is not who or what is being criticized OR how often they receive criticism but the way one chooses to present their criticism. Constructive criticism is respectful toward the person and their work and takes care to emphasize that it's an opportunity for improvement. I think that difference is very good information that we should collectively try to spread.

[@erixklira]

hybe doesnt give two fucks about their idols vocally and its kinda sad

[@aeri_taylors-version]

I think the songs that they can perform live right now are “Perfect Night” and “Impurities”. Those 2 aren’t demanding note-wise, and even the choreo are more laid back (compared to their other songs)

[@suhkawnit]

Even 'Perfect Night' is too much for them. Just listen to Eunchae

[@nubelinda]

Even those are out of their range lmao look at their recent concerts at FEARNADA, loud backtrack and as usual hybe trying to hide their horrendous vocal skills

[@Treasure-bl3cn]

Why these people even get the chance to debut? All those saying "they needed time" are you crazy? You should be ready when you debut not after that wtf.,. its so embarrassing!! They should stop and end their carrer,. i call it karma for what happend to NJ and sakura? she is an idol for more than 10 years

[@nnnn-sc2im]

when people say “they needed time” they’re referring to short training period that 3/5 of the girls had prior to debuting

[@milky_wave7289]

Chaewon is just tired imagine singing live most of the time compared to your other members and carrying the vocal department

[@myraclesname]

I'm gonna be honest. Hybe doesn't and will never care about vocals. They have made it very clear how they're trying to shift the focus to perfomance and visuals ONLY. You see this with every popular Hybe group except for seventeen, because they're the only group that started somewhere different. Hybe only wants to chart and that's it. Side note: the best vocalists still take vocal lessons because THEY want to, they themselves say THEY need to. so even if Hybe doesn't provide lsf with vocal training, they could very well do it on their own, that's not an excuse I'll be using anymore.

[@lukeandre3473]

Hearing Ain't No Other Fan curse was like hearing a Kpop Idol curse for the first time LOL. I actually had to double take on what I heard

[@dont6771]

LE SSERAFIM's assets are their discography and personality (debatable). You can say that they are synchronized, but no one really stands out in dancing. No one is a monster vocal, dancer, let alone rapper. In short, the word "m". The group's stage presence is also a subject to discussion. Personally, I don't enjoy watching their performances. I always say this now. They had a good career path hanging on to their great songs and company's popularity, why accept a Coachella invitation just to perform like that? The image that was built for them got destroyed in one night. I can't look at them the same way now. It's not just about the incapability, it's also about the arrogance to continue performing like this while enjoying the popularity of their group.

[@actuallybyulie-dz7ti]

always love your videos and this doesn’t disappoint. i know its crazy kazuha gets lines that chaewon and/or yunjin would sing too lol. im glad you acknowledged sakura’s improvement - no matter how small. and thank you for acknowledging their hard work. hope you’re all better now! like you said, i hope they get better vocal coaches/teachers whether it’s in hybe or outside! i’m sure they would improve. all the best to your videos and the girls! 💞

[@bt-eg8xu]

It's crazy how HYBE waited UNTIL the controversy happened to give them any sort of help on stage. Like for the second week, each member had pitch-correcting and backtracks that suited their personal needs. If it was so easy to do on such a whim, why not just do it for the first week too?? I doubt the girls themselves were saying "Nah, forget about all our other mediocre performances, we'll go out there and kill this stage while doing all our dances and jumping around in the blazing heat! Don't even think of helping us out." I am so ashamed of HYBE and I'm glad that company is falling apart at the seams right now. It's what they deserve. Let's just hope their artists can make it out unscathed.

[@ausgod538]

Hybe don't do shit, source music does

[@bt-eg8xu]

@@ausgod538 Yes, true. But also HYBE is the main shareholder (hence why their now part of the HYBE conglomerate) so they actually have a lot of say over what makes the final albums, the girls' schedules and all that. That's why I blame HYBE. Cause it's a company problem, not just Source Music.

[@Supernovaex]

Only 2 of them can be singers. We know who. Three others are doomed, Idk why they were even chosen to debut

[@user-xt7tn9ii6l]

The only member who was ready to debut when they did was Chaewon (though she obviously still would have benefited from more vocal training), and that has been clear since day one. LS has been set up for failure. Source Music/Hybe should have delayed their debut when the stuff about Garam came out to give the members more time to train, and should never have let the group continue as five. While Garam wasn't an amazing singer by any means, she was stronger than most of the members, and it should have been clear to Source Music/Hybe that they needed another member who could help the group vocally in her absence - Yunjin and Chaewon are not strong enough singers to carry the group on their own. The pendulum is clearly swinging away from vibes/dance/performance/visuals/concepts (where it's been stuck since at least 2016/2017) and back to vocals, and it's clear that entertainment companies (not just Hybe labels, though they're almost certainly the worst offender) are completely unprepared to deal with this, given how they have been either under-investing or not investing at all in vocal training for at least the past half decade.

[@jazmin1254]

The result of debuting a group just for gaining some money without previous preparation.

[@aartzy]

And they really expected them to be better than other groups 💀

[@nubelinda]

The result of debuting people with no talent.

[@evegasse6999]

Yunjin is not nearly as good as she should be with her alleged experience. Chaewon is decent, she's good compared to the others in the group but the bar's low. Eunchae is not very good but I guess she still has time to improve. Sakura sounded awful but I feel like she's improving a bit (too little too late?). Kazuha is the one I think struggles the most. That said, I like them, they're fun to watch and their songs are catchy. They need better vocal training though, otherwise they should just be a dance crew hahaha.

[@nnnn-sc2im]

ngl a lot of fearnots exaggerate the training she had she trained at pledis and then took a few opera classes to do phantom of the opera she’s not this acclaimed opera singer that her fans make her out to be

[@leahnjoroge4807]

could you do a vocal analysis of txt ive seen alot of moas become misogynistic towards hybe girl groups saying that their boy groups(hybe) are the only ones who an sing

[@multistanhuhue1601]

True their stans acting brave when TXT vocals are mid at their best and they even drag other groups 💀

[@averyatwell95]

TXT, enhypen & BTS fans are on a next level delulu.

[@WTSLMTS]

tbh I only vibe with Seventeen, TWS, Boynextdoor Jaehyun and Jungkook's vocals

[@amethyst034]

They’re even saying that girl groups aren’t meant for HYBE. Weirdos. All of HYBE’s groups need extensive vocal training (obvs not svt, TWS & fromis9).

[@ERINHORAE]

​@@averyatwell95This is very true, these three fandoms are unbearable. I just came back from the video "Main Vocals Who Need Singing Lessons" and TXT and Enhypen fans were saying that he was a hater and that these two groups have amazing "vocalists". And the way all the BTS members have been in the industry for over 10 years and are much older but still some of them manage to be even worse than these girls is shameful. All of Lesserafim and illit's videos, fans will say that it's not fair to say that Hybe's groups are terrible singers because only the girl groups can't sing and the boy groups are incredible vocalists when they are just as horrible and some even more. Seungkwan, Dk and Jiwon are saving that company.

[@napperforlife2020]

They weren't solid before so why are people surprised they are not solid now? They simply do not have the talent overall as a group to make the cut in any top company in SK. Their company worked OVERTIME to hide their lack of skills and make them appear more talented... And people believed it! That's so amazing to me. That they as a group think they can get away with this, with no shame.

[@dellbation]

For hybe As long as you are marketable you can debut because they have the best music engineers, Autotune will just fix everything and anything a good looking person produces fans will eat it and even fight😂😂😂

[@elinama7061]

It really is unfortunate. Because i truly believe they are all talented, they have great stage presence and energy whenever they are on stage and are very perfectionists about their performances(Yunjin literally took it so hard when she was half a step behind her members one time). I feel like if they could've improved their vocals at HYBE, they would have alreadly. I mean look at much better Sakura is at dancing now with proper training. I choose to believe that HYBE is not providing/investing them the proper vocal coaching they need and they are forced to wing it or make do without it. Perhaps because vocal progress takes quite a while to master and its always something that you can work on for years and years, that HYBE doesn't deem it worth it. They are just debuting so many groups but dont really feel that its necessary to make them vocally talented when you can hide it in various ways(editing, autotuning, backtracks, lipsyncing, taking down videos). You either got the skill or you dont, they are not going to help you improve. Which is really sad because for a group like Le Serrafim, most have not trained long at all in general. I know for Stray Kids, some members had to hire outside vocal coaches, that's sadly what they probably need to do.

[@govanooyasumi9541]

Big 3 and shein of kpop

[@billliealim]

NGL Babymonster may have singing abilities that sound the same and have recycled Blackpink songs for releases but at least everyone can tell they were trained and they CAN SING

[@henryj9626]

Kpop is a music-oriented industry, idols at least have to sing smoothly their own songs.

[@timbushi331]

the fact also remains that most of these girls have debuted once or twice already yikes

[@Liquid_silver88]

Lesserafim is an anagram for im fearless and baby they are for even having the nerve to sing live with those skills. Truly Unforgiven

[@miaschiapet]

I agree I love the girls but why don’t companies put more focus on vocals to keep them from getting clowned

[@ave_rie]

Literally, there are singing classes on KZbin or online in general. Wish them all the best in their professional development.

[@FreesiaMya]

But I think online videos don’t actually help much. I practiced singing using those videos for years, but I didn’t get improved, but after several months with a vocal coach, I could clearly see the progress.

[@skyhideaway]

Sakura is definitely the most disappointing case here. Yunjin, Eunchae and Kazuha hasn't been in the industry for too long so we can still hope for some improvement, and Chaewon is definitely proving her experience in the industry. Sakura has been in music industry, not just the k-pop industry, for YEARS and and is somehow still the weakest vocalist in her group. it's especially disappointing since her solution to this is to ask for lesser lines, instead of improving her vocals. i know it must be hard without a vocal coach but if her voice was at least stable while singing, she wouldn't be getting so much hate.

[@shinigagamimi]

yunjin was a trainee from 2016/17 till 2018/19 and then again trained multiple months and has been an idol for 2 years now. shes had more than enough time to properly train her voice to adjust to a more pop style but she hasnt and while we can blame the hybe/somu for not providing effective singing lessons its also on her for not seeking out training elsewhere to get better.

[@skyhideaway]

@@shinigagamimi sure, yunjin is also definitely a disappointing case but 2 years is nothing compared to 13 YEARS. sakura entered the music industry in 2011, she should be doing better at this point.

[@ClubPuguin]

Kinda though as akb48 idol she didn't really need to put much focus on her vocals before joining produce in 2018.

[@ClubPuguin]

Well she was better in produce with her pop singing so something happened.

[@goldenhourss]

@@ClubPuguinreally makes me think about what japanese standards. like is acting cute enough to be famous? like no vocaal practice whatsover? even tho they’re a music group? It’s quite fascinating

[@DP-mv7ph]

if i remember correctly Baekhyun from exo said that he still takes vocal lessons even tho hes like 10 years into his career.. todays idols just dont care anymore lmaooo

[@EverRoxas]

EXO debuted 12 years ago.