Aircraft Roll Rate Explained

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Educational video about roll rate! Seemingly long awaited judging by the comments. A bit more complicated than turn performance, I hope it's understandable!
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[@AVFLive]

It’s all fun and games until adam whips out the mathematical equations Edit: Great video adam! I really do enjoy these series.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Hahaha thanks!

[@silience4095]

That's the best part! >:(

[@messerschmittbolkow5606]

You should have waited a few days for the F-104 to show what "a lot of roll" really means!

[@pedrosabino8751]

Or he should have used the a4 skyhawk. Its roll rate is so insane that pilots are recommended to not do more than 2 rolls

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

The clipped Spitfire outrolls the F104 below 400 km/h ;).

[@ddddddddddd5354]

@@AdamTheEnginerd I also outroll the Starfighter below 400 km/h

[@melo3814]

@@ddddddddddd5354 What

[@pedrosabino8751]

@@ddddddddddd5354 Really? I too!

[@Alpakinator]

actually yea, aerobatics smoke are technically "chemtrails"

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

They are a trail of chemicals, prove me wrong.

[@Alpakinator]

Why tho, i agreed

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@Alpakinator Comment for the general population.

[@CyberRelic280]

I guess you can call them that. In real life, it’s just oil that is being burned into the exhaust that isn’t harmful to anyone or anything.

[@twister300000]

@@CyberRelic280 that's bs. Google it.

[@kiper7123]

When you fly 190 and see Spitfire diving on you: "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick" When he overshoots: " I have you now"

[@doch.8039]

*Drops throttle and laughs*

[@shashlik7959]

The spit does a loop which you can't follow so you are forced to extend away

[@BleedingUranium]

Then your teammate crashes into you.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Getting a Spitfire to overshoot your Fw190 is pretty difficult haha.

[@BleedingUranium]

@Boris Posavec A more manoeuvrable plane who's also gaining on you is one of the most frustrating situations to be in haha.

[@doch.8039]

A perfect video to watch with breakfast.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Oh really?

[@sylv9570]

3 am here,,, hmmm for coffee maybe

[@maclainbarry1903]

No, lunch 😂

[@FiestaKing36]

same i ate cereal watching this

[@finnthewastebin1503]

Doc H. LMAO Me too!

[@MadManchou]

I had never realized engine torque was off in RB ; I always thought the instructor was simply applying perfect control-surfaces deflection to counter it. I guess that's a contributing factor to explaining how many aircraft perform vastly differently between RB and SB.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeah, or else you'd notice you'd roll to one side when at very low speed where ailerons can no longer counter torque.

[@Allwin-lz6yj]

For example the 109 has a heavy torque to the left in sim but in rb it flies virtually straight

[@eldarguardian6485]

I have been playing "full real controls" with hotas in RB and engine torque was there for me, actually everything was just like in sb despite playing against ai piloted planes and no view restrictions applied :P In fact, both modes are barely differentiated by controls and views forced in that are just applied in the manner of unencrypted text file lol. Some of cheaters I have caught in SB were simply editing this file to play rb rules in sb.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@eldarguardian6485 Oh yeah, what I mean is that RB with typical mouse aim does not have torque. Any mode with full real controls will have torque.

[@adamsaffell2361]

We can now keep our ailerons when the wing tips are shot off so if we break the wing tips on a FW 190 do we get super roll?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha probably!

[@beanosmeanos8650]

Im gonna try this in a custom battle while trying to go through a bridge

[@defuncthusky6649]

Did it work?

[@beanosmeanos8650]

@@defuncthusky6649 haven't tried yet ive been busy with work :/

[@jacob2790]

I like to clip the wing tips on my american spitfire. Have also successfully clipped the wing tips on f4e, it looked like a mig21 hybrid, unfortunately it didn't handle like one

[@janloncaric3621]

this is like real engeenering on a budget, i hope you will soon start to grow rapidly

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Hopefully.

[@twister300000]

On a budget?

[@haoyangpan7153]

I noticed that at least in war thunder, generally the aircrafts that have a good roll rate, have a worse turn time and vice versa, like fw190 vs spitfire, F4U vs A6M Is that because the good rolling aircraft shorten the wingspan and results in less generated lift? Or some other factors like rudder, moment of inertia, etc. are involved in this case?🤔

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Generally fast aircraft have worse roll at very low speed but better roll at medium and high speed. That's because the aileron forces need to be sized differently for slow aircraft and for fast aircraft, so the slow aircraft suffer at high speed and the fast aircraft suffer at low speed in the roll department. Spitfire outrolls Fw190 at low enough speeds (below 300km/h). It's not due to other reasons.

[@draqonfyre4385]

I'm just speculating here and I'm too lazy to do actual research here, so take what I say with a grain of salt and perhaps do some research of your own. Aircraft that are good at rolling have short wingspans, but aircraft that are good at turning have longer wingspans, as a plane with more wing surface area will have less wing loading (assuming both aircraft have similar or equal weight), which is a contributing factor of how good a plane can turn iirc. Although wing loading doesn't have much of an effect on roll (remember to take my speculation with a grain of salt), the wingspan does, and that's what causes a trade-off between roll & turn time. I'm sure there are other factors such as the design and purpose of the aircraft overall. Remember to do your own research if you're really interested.

[@Mister.madman]

what about yak-15p?

[@Blitzcreeper239]

Came in on 109 views, noice EDIT for the actual comment after watching: It's a nice feeling having someone this knowledgeable on aerodynamics and general physics educate about content from a game using concepts applied in real life(that is in the game) and also kick ass in it every other day. For the next educational video, I'd like to see something on manual engine controls. I watched another channel (The Air Combat Tutorial Library) on it but I'd like to see you talk about it. As far as I know fuel mixture isn't modeled in the game, and propellor pitch is modelled to a questionable degree of accuracy. It sounds like a lot of effort on your part, but I'd like to see comparisons between an aircraft on auto engine controls, on manual engine controls with individual settings on auto(eg 109), and a graph with fully manual controls and what the optimal settings for a plane to have highest thrust and (separately of course) best top speed(probably need to do one for sea level and another for a good medium altitude).

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Noice. I agree! I'd love to watch videos like these, hence why I make them. I'll consider it!

[@m4jst3r32]

It would be really great!

[@ferrarisuper]

IMHO the only point if MEC in WT with all aircraft except 109s is to control radiators. With tier 4 109s MEC will improve a lot your performance: 25% radiators and you will WEP the whole game, 100% prop pitch airbrake, and 70% (65% above 3000m and 60% above 5000m) improves massively your stall climb performance. Apart from 109s (and other aircrafts DB605s) and P51h (where micromanagement is important) MEC shouldn’t improve your performance drastically, though radiators can help to WEP for a much longer period of time

[@Blitzcreeper239]

@@ferrarisuper Prop pitch contributes a lot to engine endurance too, 95% prop pitch on Spits and a number of planes let the engine remain cool for longer than 100% without too much loss in thrust. Some planes even need 90% like the lower BR Regiannes(?)

[@aaravsubberwal5422]

Adam: You may have seen a few people test roll rate of an aircraft but you've never seen anything like mine. Now that's a lot of roll

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha!

[@kokomehrtuerer]

Very cool, thanks for the great video. One thing I still don't understand is why the FW-190 (A series) have such a good roll rate. Especially when compared to the Bf-109. There might be minor differences in wing span, aspect ratio and aileron size, but nothing that should result in such a HUGE difference in roll rate.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My pleasure! Fw190A actually has a shorter wingspan and a higher aileron to wing size ratio, hence the difference in roll. Bf109s actually have decently high wingspan for its size with smallish ailerons.

[@sylv9570]

Lets roll right into it 🤣 You really need to say the pun

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

As always ;).

[@draqonfyre4385]

To be fair it was way better than the "let's wing it" pun

[@Jarda-di4gd]

Everyones gangsta until Adam take a fair dogfight with P51C againts Yak-3 and thanks to the mathematical equations he will manage to win. Nice video!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha he had a rudder crit and probably some other damage. Thanks!

[@mamalojzka]

Thank you for this video. It helped me a lot in understanding why counter moment to the aileron deflection appears.

[@joemaydaytv7354]

Man... saying your videos are great is an understatement, keep it up

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks man, I will!

[@shashlik7959]

This needs to be revisited Now that they added wings bending roll rate feels different like your plane doesn't stop rolling as soon as you straighten your ailerons

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I haven't noticed a change there. In any case, I'm talking about a sustained roll, and even if wing bending was modeled for roll, it wouldn't affect sustained roll.

[@theflyguy5983]

These theory of flight vids are extremely interesting, I look forward for more in the future!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

There will be, and there has been!

[@lukefrombk]

Well that was embarrassing, I was in the D9 a few minutes ago while you where in the P59a PL didn't let me pull up I ended up crashing into the ground and the match disconnected right after.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

All good, internet issues used to happen to me decently often haha.

[@yfxxiii]

ailron airelon airleron airelnon aileroll Thanks for the video, it's always great to be able to see ideas I only have a vague understanding of be given a more concrete explanation!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha my pleasure!

[@zacharybarnes4110]

Awesom video, you explained the equations really well and somehow made math really interesting

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks for the praise! Math by itself with no context is boring to me, but it's really interesting to see the mathematical equations for real things.

[@dasflieger3103]

That's why I love this channel so much. When anyone even remotely implies that war thunder is just like every other game and that it isn't realistic, I show them one of your videos and shut them up.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks for the love and support! It does mean a lot!

[@itzeasy2040]

I was wondering if you could do a video on the ho 229 because I just got it and I can’t find any new video on it for the matter early jets at all. I would be very great full if you could.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My video on it is pretty good. It was nerfed a bit since then though.

[@mengxiangxuan6552]

protip: bind pitch axis to eject

[@itzeasy2040]

Thank you for responding you don’t have to since you have recently done one but if you do I would really appreciate it

[@robot-he6nq]

A video/playlist of combat maneuver guides would be good in my opinion. Guides on how and when to do maneuvers such as the spiral climb would be really helpful. One of my main issues in the game is that when someone gets on my tail I don’t really know how to shake them off and regain the upper hand.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I show what I do in most of my gameplay videos when I have someone on my 6. There's also my reversal guide video that you should check out.

[@Rogueginger69]

Well done, I cant wait for the snap rolls vid! The ki-43 is probably good at that. That thing over rolls like crazy for me.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Will there be a snap roll video?

[@Rogueginger69]

@@AdamTheEnginerd I hope soo, you made it sound like there is a lot of deep knowledge about snap rolls at the end. I love learning about this stuff then trying to apply it.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I'll consider it!

[@Rogueginger69]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Nice! Your warthunder vids are just extra quality compared to some others. You and Defyn are great fun to watch and learn from.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@Rogueginger69 Glad you like them!

[@thesovietcenturion2469]

Normal people trying to explain lift: its uh because the air on the top of the wing goes faster and uhh.... Adam: No, its just angle of attack. Also id like to see a video on the meteor mk 3 as I'm going to be getting it soon and would like to know how to fly it.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha is that good? It's on my list!

[@thesovietcenturion2469]

@@AdamTheEnginerd its a good thing, shows that your a big smart man.

[@catstopower]

I wasn't expecting that thumbnail. I honestly don't know what to say, it just fits so well. I mean that was exactly what happened. As you can see, I have a hard time describing this picture, as said, it fits so well.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Lmao!

[@cannonfodder4376]

"Lets roll right into it" *Ba dum tiss* A most informative explanation on the topic as always. I might not understand the equations, but the graphs speak for themselves, as do your well explained explanations for how things are as they are.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

That's my goal!

[@isaaccharbel9754]

Hey Adam! As an engineering student, your videos are super fun, educational, and easy to follow. May I suggest a video on take off run? I believe it’s an interesting topic with lots of factors, such as acceleration, flap use, landing gear (because of the starting inclination of the wing) and so on, and you could mention the case of carrier based planes.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Hey! Thanks for the kind words! I'll consider it! The carrier part of it sounds interesting. Also debunking the fact that flaps help takeoff would be fun.

[@isaaccharbel9754]

AdamTheEnginerd wait, so flaps don’t help to take off? I understand they lower the stall speed, so the plane can leave the ground sooner, at the expense of climb rate. So suppose you wanted to reduce take off run as much as possible, even if the plane doesn’t climb much after it leaves the ground, wouldn’t you use flaps?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Flaps reduce climb/energy gain as you say. If the runway is long enough to takeoff without flaps, you shouldn't use flaps.

[@nairb-ds1vn]

This is just fantastic. Just fantastic. The best type of War Thunder documentary

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks for the praise!

[@eliasa.5408]

Very interesting video, great work! Oh and I'm not sure if you'll remember but I'm god_elias from your streams (:

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! Hi god, welcome to the stream! I remember haha.

[@Metrallaroja]

Love the sounds effects

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

There aren't any?

[@NotAgentAJ]

i would love to see a snap roll explanation video

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Maybe!

[@twister300000]

Hold down a and q.

[@jasotpatakasu8673]

Off Topic: thx to you I experimented a little with the overlay data. What i realised is that Increasing Propeller efficiency does not necessarily increases thrust, what I thought to be logical. Why is that? It was ki43-II if it matters.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Depends how you're increasing propeller efficiency, and you need to make sure that you're at a constant TAS because thrust reduces when TAS increases (P=TV).

[@abdvxn]

Thanks for explaining

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My pleasure!

[@appa609]

You can check if the modeling is correct by testing roll rate with only aileron deflection using a stick.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

You still have sideslip/dihedral effect even if you only use ailerons, and also the speed gain/loss due to loss/gain of altitude will throw off your speed.

[@SparkyBob357]

Thanks I did wonder if prop torque was modelled and never could find any documents.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My pleasure!

[@YTaccNo3]

speaking of the typhoon and snap rolls it does spin around on a dime once you give the rudder a kick

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

A dime is an exaggeration, but yeah rudder helps.

[@HawkerMkIII]

Thank you for the video.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks for watching!

[@venusreena2532]

Make more vids on wing performance and design.. Very good explanation thank you

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! I've got a nice portfolio of that type of video on my channel, but more are planned!

[@GregoryShtevensh]

The Typhoon has massive wings... they're thick, and more designed for speed than anything else! On top of that, each wing holds 6x browning 7.7mm guns each with 500 rounds (apart from two out of 6, that carry slightly less). The Typhoon also carried fuel tanks at the front of the wings, and a weak fuselage... The lifting capacity of the role rate simply cannot overcome the sheer weight of the wings any more than it does! And if it could, the tail would snap off anyway

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

The wings are thick, but them being thick actually makes them lighter! It's like a taller I-beam. In any case, the weight of the wings (roll inertia) only affects roll acceleration, not roll speed or roll rate.

[@GregoryShtevensh]

@@AdamTheEnginerd my bad I always assumed role acceleration and role rate were kind of the same thing... or at least that acceleration is part of the role rate anyway... But yeah It seems like a heavy wing to lift either way... And still that wing I think would be heavy even in spite of it's design, because 6 machine guns is just heavy, and the wings are quite long, meaning the weight is held out at a longer distance (kind of like an extended telescopic crane not being able to lift as much vs a crane in a retracted state)

[@TheBullitt2001]

Great video

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks!

[@sinani210]

Oh boy here it is!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeeeet!

[@beneggo8062]

I just wanted to ask if you could do w video going through your warthunder keybinds? Love the videos and thanks for staying useful during the current situation on earth :)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My keybinds are essentially default, with MEC added.

[@beneggo8062]

AdamTheEnginerd fair enough thanks for replying though :)

[@a_stone]

"Without further ado, let's *roll* right into it." .........

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Good?

[@a_stone]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Quite good. As a serial punner I approve.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@a_stone Why thank you.

[@Shameless286]

At my school we are making a glider for engineering, and your videos on plane wings and your other educational videos are better at explaining stuff than my teacher lmao

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha thanks for the praise! It's for high school? Tell your teacher to use my material in his class ;).

[@Shameless286]

@@AdamTheEnginerd dude I wish, yesterday the teacher was teaching about vectors, and spent 40 minutes on one question. A guy in the class was sick of it and started doing actual math from the engineering textbook and the teach screamed at him for "not listening". I'll just use your video on wings as a guide and prey an actually compitent person will mark my report. Welcome to the Australian education system. 👍 Keep up the great content dude, love it 👌

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Oof yeah some teachers are like that. Thanks, I will!

[@dsdy1205]

Hey Adam, dyou think it might be a good idea to set up like an Air RB clinic? So we mail you our replay files and you tear apart our noobish tactics and what could have been done instead

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha maybe!

[@patriot4048]

Great Video! Fw 190A pls Adam, Attempt #6

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! They are on my list!

[@ferrarisuper]

YT has given me the notification only now :-(. BTW another fantastic video Adam! I think the typhoon has that bad roll rate because it carries fuel in the wings, and those wings also produce a lot of lift

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Damn YT! Thanks! Many planes carry fuel and guns in the wings, and those would only increase inertia, which does not affect sustained roll rate. The wings don't produce significantly more lift than others.

[@ferrarisuper]

AdamTheEnginerd well the typhoon is an heavy aircraft (heavy for being a single engine fighter), and to achieve is incredible MER it needs a lot of lift (the p/w ratio isn’t comparable with a spitfire or a Bf-109). To make a comparison: the F4u4b is another Heavy single engine fighter with 4 cannons in the wings. The F4u doesn’t have remotely close the typhoon MER/turn, and (at least from what i’ve seen from videos, since right now I can’t play thanks to internet issues) it’s ailerons can deflect at higher angles (the typhoon aileron when deflecting down seems to do less than 5 degrees to me lol)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@ferrarisuper Heavyness is not related to roll rate though. Typhoon has average deflection.

[@ferrarisuper]

AdamTheEnginerd I was talking about aircraft weight because the typhoon has a very good turn time and incredible MER, so it needs a ton of lift. Another heavy aircraft, the F4u4b does not have all that lift, so it rolls pretty well. Btw all aircraft that have a decent roll rate doesn’t have fuel in the wings, i think that’s also why the ta-154 has such incredible roll rate being a 2 engine fighter.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@ferrarisuper No it's not related to weight or lift (much).

[@oliverhill9986]

With regards, to the roll rate of the Typhoon, it could be down to a number of reasons(I'm no expert but would like to see what people think). Firstly it has a large wingspan, which limits the maximum rate of roll since the descending wing will generate sufficient lift to counteract the aileron produced torque sooner. But the Ta 152 has more wing area and doesn't have this problem, this could be due to how thick the Typhoon's wings are which gives them more inertia so the aileron torque will have less initial effect. Furthermore, I believe the control surfaces are pretty big without any boosters so they are especially slow to deflect at higher speeds. I'm pretty sure the Tempest had thinner wings and smaller control surfaces, which gave it a much better rate of roll. If these points are right, they should pretty much justify why the Typhoon rolls so poorly, but it's still one of my favourite aircraft.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Indeed Typhoon has a higher than average wingspan, but Ta152H has a higher wingspan (I assume that's what you meant, not wing area). Thicc wings could worse aileron effectiveness perhaps, but it's not for inertia reasons. Actually thicc wings are lighter than thin wings, I explained why in my Aircraft Wings video. Control surfaces being slow to deflect would only matter if we were evaluating roll acceleration, but I was always doing sustained roll rates.

[@oliverhill9986]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Either way, I love your videos and they've helped me a lot at surviving 5.7 Allies, and in flying the thicc winged typhoon. Keep it up!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@oliverhill9986 Thanks, I will!

[@pepegaclap3753]

Do you know what the new changes to the ta 152H fm is? Nice content btw :)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! I heard that its flaps were being nerfed (rightly so).

[@Erden99]

Ah, one of the factors of aircraft that i never understood. Thanks!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My pleasure!

[@calebcantrell9115]

Could you go over how trust is generated from a jet engine and how it's controlled to move an aircraft forward? If you haven't already.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Definitely!

[@natcliffe8638]

Adam have you done a video on the spitfire mk. 24? I am looking for MEC settings especially how to keep using WEP whilst climbing, I just can’t stop the engine from overheating and I’ve tried many variations of radiator and propeller pitch.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Nope I have not. Put PP to 80-85% and rads to around 50% and you'll be fine.

[@matiastorres1510]

Could you explain the different types of WEP and how they compare to each other?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Could be interesting!

[@nickolasdowney5686]

Great video, as always, Adam. How is the whole quarantine deal going for you?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! Pretty well! I got laid off 4 weeks ago due to COVID, but I'm still quite busy with KZbin, Twitch, and other projects.

[@nickolasdowney5686]

@@AdamTheEnginerd I've been laid off since March here in the States. I guess being in a print shop isn't essential haha. Good to hear you're working on your channel with this time.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeah I'm being productive. Hope you are too despite the circumstances!

[@simranveersingh3841]

I guess for typhoon, it would have more to do with the Moment of Inertia. The presence of heavier guns on the wing may increase the moment of inertia which means more torque required to produce same amount of roll.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Inertia doesn't explain poor sustained roll. Inertia has no effect on sustained roll, just like inertia has no effect on top speed. Inertia only affects roll acceleration.

[@Erden99]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Just shooting wildly here, but does it perhaps have anything to do with the very thick wing roots? I know the Hurricane also has some trouble rolling, a trait it shares with the Typhoon.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Wing roots are the part of the wing which would have the least effect on roll because it's so close to the axis of rotation, so the angle of attack on the wing roots is small and doesn't counter roll much. However the Typhoon wing is thicc the whole way indeed, I just don't know what that changes exactly. I have some ideas, but they don't seem to be enough to explain the really bad roll.

[@Bossman-bb5mi]

This is a nice video! However, i still cant see roll as an important benefit for dogfighting (in warthunder). Maybe you could pull out a couple clips of roll rate saving you/getting you a kill?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Well did you watch until the end of the video? Roll rate is important to get guns on target and defensive fly.

[@christianfriedmann5981]

0:42 This isn't quite right. It doesn't make lift because it is pushing air downwards or upwards. Instead the position of the aileron essentially controls in what direction the induced circulation will go. If the aileron is on the right wing is up the air below the wing will be pulled up around the trailing edge creating a vortex that is from the pilots view counterclockwise. This vortex then induces a counterclockwise circulation (pilot view) around the wing which allows the the differences in pressure (low pressure below wing and high pressure above wing) and therefore lift allowing the plane to rotate. Another little thing in order to roll the plane you also need to be using the rudder not just the ailerons otherwise you would start so slip. Cheers!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Is air deflected upwards? Yes, and that's all I said. Forcibly to get a force and a torque, air must be deflected and action-reaction will produce the force on the wing. You can roll while slipping. You'd be right if you wanted a pure roll (not really possible).

[@appa609]

Good video overall

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Glad you think so!

[@Historedity]

what if an elliptical wing plane was mounted with a P51H's packard engine

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Elliptical wings aren't a gamechanger though.

[@insertname.5985]

Fastest roll rate is nothing compared to my Bf 109 K4 in a spiral downwards after its left wing tip gets shot off by one p51 round.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha!

[@mockingbird0901]

Ffs, for the past 7 years I've thought that torque was modeled in rb... x)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Nope.

[@thomasjoseph6205]

Hey Adam, was wondering if you were planning a video on the Firecrest. I enjoy flying it and just wanted to know your thoughts on it

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

No not really, I don't have it.

[@thomasjoseph6205]

@@AdamTheEnginerd oh, welp

[@hasamanda3687]

9:23 i could see someone calling you a hacker for doing something like that

[@c-028]

"Dad, I swear I was watching educational video about aviation."

[@b0BSh4nk3r]

its been 2 years daddy. i really really miss you.

[@zayf1760]

Nice

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks!

[@RedAssassin274]

Hey Adam, great vid! I was wondering if you had a video with the P47D or M? I recently got them but I just cannot figure out how to play them for the life of me. The bf109s and FWs always get me in a shallow dive or shallow climb, and zeros always seem to just turn around on a dime and catch me in the climb I do to get away. I feel like I'm doing something horribly wrong. Thanks!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I have both! P47M is most recent: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX3EqpR7rt94qcU

[@huntermurphy2148]

Solution: Go faster. But for real, you can outturn a 190 pretty much any time, and you can out turn a 109 above 450kph (ias). Zeros cant catch you at all especially the M, a J2M has the climb rate to dive on you but you should dive as well to equalize energy and then extend since you have a vastly superior top speed. You can also use your 2700hp engine and good flaps to prop hang like you wouldnt believe possible. (I have no issue mixing it up with the germans but i dont recommend it until you get very confident in the plane) Dont follow enemies in a dive, unless you know you'll be able to get the kill and reclimb you need the alitude for that massive engine to do you the most good

[@smrdamudic47]

Hello, could you please provide reference/literature for those equations?

[@digitaldash222]

Hey adam! A bit late to the video but when you mentioned engine torque I remembered that many of the Macchi aircraft have one wing longer than the other to counter the engine torque. How does that affect roll in RB? (if it affects at all)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeah it does, the roll is faster when the smaller wing is going downwards.

[@digitaldash222]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks! Ill be sure to roll to the smaller wing's side on my next reversal

[@b0BSh4nk3r]

btw you said shorter wings enjoy a better roll rate, is this because the wing has less moment of inertia?

[@mengxiangxuan6552]

Brits: Clip elliptical wing to enhance roll (Clipped spits) Germans: Hydraulic assist ailerons and shorter wings (Fw-190D) Russians: ENTIRE WING IS FOR AILERON!!!!! (I-16)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha is it?

[@mengxiangxuan6552]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Quite an ingenious one at it, aileron doubles as a 15 degree flap

[@specrtre]

Would you mind sharing Joystick setting? Thank you for the vids. Im js player going to just give up AB and RB i cant compete. These are great vids. There a seris called combat air school but for Il2. If you wouldn't mind going threw maneuvers in depth with WT flighy model that be awesome definitely have a like and subscriber.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I don't use joystick though.

[@specrtre]

@@AdamTheEnginerd ooh i miss understood, in vid i thought you said u used one either way,your vids very useful thanks for them.

[@dogeness]

Hey Adam, is the induced drag from this lift significant enough to contribute to slowing down when you roll? Like is it significant compared to the parasite drag from the aileron deflection?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

No, because the aileron that reduces lift sees less induced drag, compensating the increased induced drag from the other wing. Of course, it'll somewhat ruin the lift distribution so the induced drag will be higher for the same lift. Drag from induced drag should be in the same ballpark as aileron deflection drag I'd say.

[@olsonaviation9382]

Adam I have and rc model ta-152H. Models seem to have faster role rates than there full scale counterparts. Have and ideas why they would have a faster role rate? On models you can control the role rate by adjusting the rates of the control services the ta-152 h has a 1300mm wingspan. Go to Motion rc and type in ta-152 if you want more specifics

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeah, it would have a higher speed/wingspan ratio! Also your aileron deflection is likely significantly higher than the measly +-17 degrees on the real Ta152H.

[@DakotaRowehl]

Not Adam but I just finished my introduction to aerodynamics course. There are a couple things at play here. 1) You can scale the aircraft down, but you aren't scaling the fluid to match. A lot of characteristics of a wing or an airfoil are directly dependent on the density and viscosity of the air. So, if you want to make a model perform exactly like its full-scale counterpart, you have to change the environment as well. Our class examples about scale modeling usually involved working fluids like water and other liquids. I think the Reynolds Number specifically, which is a dimensionless number that characterizes a flow, is what you would have to pay attention to. 2) This doesn't come from aerodynamics but it still holds true in this context I think. Square cubed law, looking at just the wings, the area of a wing increases a lot less than the volume of the wing as you scale it up. So a full scale wing weighs much more for relatively less lift than a model. So it will be just generally less responsive at larger scales.

[@olsonaviation9382]

AdamTheEnginerd they do have more deflection. I try to make them as scale as possible

[@miked815]

Is your RC model made out of metal to match the scaling in weight to the actual plane?

[@miked815]

For example if your RC model is 1/25 the size of the real plane, is it also 1/25 the weight of the real plane. Weight will be a huge factor

[@aaroncronnelly]

Just wondering could you fly out the 262 a1a if possible.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I did some a long time ago. I might revisit it.

[@viet_cong_momiji2324]

Ki-43: you guys take time to roll?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Haha!

[@antiago1983]

Adam if your fixed with realisticness and technical stuffs, why don't you play simulator battles on WT? I only play SB and your deepenings are a lot useful to me.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My eyes wouldn't be able to look for dots for hours on end.

[@antiago1983]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Meh, I usually play for max 1 hour and I feel fine. :)

[@michaelvigil5321]

Can you explain why the f 82 has the most ridiculous and uncontrollable roll rate?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

It's quite controllable. It has big ailerons.

[@brthibault]

If TAS is constant then roll rate wouldnt change at different altitudes so technically a plane doesnt roll better at higher altitudes assuming throttle is max and engine power is constant, right?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Yeah, but planes fly in IAS, not TAS. So at climb speed (constant IAS), you'll roll better at high altitude.

[@jamespaolorili5454]

wtf free aeronautics course

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Free basics!

[@twister300000]

F4U4B has the best roll of any prop, simply because it will never compress.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

The roll is great yeah.

[@tinture2822]

Try the AM1 Mauler

[@diogomatos9718]

Great video but one question from a fellow (freshman) aerospace engineering student: Why do the test results in game usually perform higher than they should in theory, when looking at your graphs?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks! It's because I used general equations that only take the main contributors of the wing into roll. Namely, rudder and sideslip effects on roll were not taken into account in the theoretical equation.

[@diogomatos9718]

@@AdamTheEnginerd oh that makes so much sense! Thank you for the clarification! You the real War Thunder MVP here on KZbin, keep the amazing work!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks, I will!

[@marseldagistani1989]

Do the flaps effect the roll like they increase the rate of climb?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Flaps don't increase climb rate!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3bIc4ttjaaaqdk

[@user-ox3ss3he9c]

Yay!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Satisfied?

[@user-ox3ss3he9c]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Yes

[@reinierjongsma4518]

I have returned to WT but I run into a situation when I'm flying in my d30: When I'm slightly outrunning a plane like a 109 or a yak 9 in a straight line, I generally don't know what to do. I saw a video of Green fury who had a major energy adventage and he did a high yoyo with a loop, but that doesn't include my situation. I'm quite noobish so any help would come in very handy :)

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Run to teammates if you have some left. If you don't, you're in a pickle if you can't outturn them.

[@pranavarvind4281]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Couldn't you try to go to high speed and make them compress?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

@@pranavarvind4281 Yeah, just depends what you're facing.

[@rudolphantler6309]

On one of the Italian planes, they solved engine torque by having a longer wing on one side! Which one is that plane again?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

C202 or C205 I think.

[@rudolphantler6309]

Does that mean it is easier to fly that in sim? Marginally? A tiny addendum video upload? :P

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Maybe, though it only works for a certain speed range. Above and below, you still have a net torque either from the torque or the asymmetric wing.

[@cahun1460]

I would like to ask if you could do a video with the a6m3 mod 22 if you could at some point

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

I think I might have done a video on it already no? Or it was a similar A6M model.

[@cahun1460]

@@AdamTheEnginerd yeah idk you have done a lot of zeros, I just like to see you play Japanese planes because the I can improve the way I play them :)

[@martijn9568]

For your problem with the roll rate of the Typhoon. I'm guessing that a suboptimal aileron position is already part of the aileron effectiveness part of the equation? Also: What's "roll stability" really called?

[@pedrosabino8751]

I think is because its great wing span or/and its strange dihedral(the mid-tip of wing point upward while the mid-root of wing is straight).

[@martijn9568]

@@pedrosabino8751 I was too starting to think about the strange dihedral. If Adam can do the same calculations for the MiG-3 and he ends up with the same problem, it's probably that

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Aileron position is at the wingtip, where it should be. The wing is indeed long, but the relative size of the ailerons compared to the wing is nearly 2x bigger than Ta152H and Fw190. The equation predicts that the Typhoon has a higher roll rate than Fw190A haha.

[@azzazz4549]

I improved at war thunder by watching your videos now I'm bored because I can't find any challenging opponents :/

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Hahaha that's high praise! Play Allies then, that's a challenge. Your challenge is not individual people, but killing the enemies and carrying your team.

[@RitikYadav-ws1hs]

hey, from where do you get the mathematical equation for roll rate. can you please tell me the source

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Here it is: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/50938/how-i-determine-numerically-the-roll-rate-of-an-aircraft

[@100undici5]

What convergence do you use for spitfires or typhoons? Do you use vertical targeting?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

500m for everything now (it's in the description of my videos too), no vertical targeting.

[@100undici5]

Thanks. however good video and nice explanations

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Thanks!

[@amvcq]

Adam what would the effect on a aircraft if it only lost one of it's elevators?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

It would have less pitch authority, and the remaining elevator will create a small unbalance which will also roll the aircraft!

[@amvcq]

@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks for the reply, i got curious when i got one of my elevators shot off in RB earlier today so it seemed best to ask you

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

My pleasure!

[@anthonyabarca5100]

Can you play the p51 h spaded plz

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

It's on my list!

[@wg4112]

I got a question. How does the ta152 have an amazing roll rate with a long wingspan?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

It doesn't have amazing roll, it has decent roll. It would have better roll if it had the wingspan of a Fw190.

[@wg4112]

@@AdamTheEnginerd ok

[@mysfire666]

At 3:40 you specifically mention TAS, would this not be IAS as this is the air speed that the wing "sees"?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

No! TAS is what gives the geometric angle of attack that the wing sees which affects roll damping. Roll is one of the few aircraft characteristics that depend on TAS rather than IAS. Good question though. I can go into more detail for the explanation if you're interested.

[@isaaccharbel9754]

AdamTheEnginerd I would love more detail!

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

You are certainly right that the force or torque produced by the ailerons is proportional to IAS (dynamic pressure). But, the roll damping, which is the opposing lift force due to the rotation of the wings, is also proportional to IAS just like the regular lift force! Since we are only talking about the sustained roll rate, torque from ailerons is equal to torque from roll damping, regardless of IAS! For roll acceleration however, you're starting at 0 roll speed so there's no roll damping, a higher IAS will provide a higher aileron torque and your roll acceleration will be higher, so you'll reach the sustained roll speed in less time.

[@metalmoltres8031]

Please play the spitfire mkllb

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

It's on my list!

[@benni1015]

Just asking, what's about the sm 92 ? It has huge wings but rolls really fast.

[@benni1015]

Nvm, its ailerons are huge too.

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Ailerons are usually sized appropriately for the aircraft!

[@warroach]

What's your targeting distance?

[@AdamTheEnginerd]

Description of videos where I shoot guns.