MIL and MOA Explained

MOA vs. MIL rifle scope terminology explained .My Rifle scope for beginners series , this new Minute of Angle vs, Milradian video is a perfect scope basics examples , I hope this rifle scope terms video will help guys get a quick look into which is best for them . Please take a look at all my rifle scope tips videos to help new shooters and old time hard core scope users alike . Please like , subscribe, and share with your shooting buddies .
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[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Guys , here is my affiliate link to Optics Force opticsforce.com/cyclops Use any coupon or discount code on the Website . It saves you money and helps support the Channel , Thanks

[@jefftorn2315]

thank you for all your videos.. its a big big help specially to me a newbie

[@HighlanderMikeGolf]

Over 24 years in the US Army Infantry and no one has ever explained this better. Well done!

[@larrydecker881]

"We buy our wiskey by the fifth" 😂 Merica!🦅

[@mikefoor5162]

What's wrong with that? I like mine in any size I can get. It's like the difference between Fords and Chevy it mostly just gives people a reason to argue which is best!

[@sog4646]

And sometimes it comes in a quart jar. Merica.

[@SuperP37]

F the metric system. It’s for people who voluntarily wore masks. Besides why would we want the commies to be able to use our stuff. I love that the world says we have to do the metric system and we pretty much only adopted it for bullets.

[@Last_Chance.]

Half a gallon

[@derekgargan5080]

By the bottle, it's easier.

[@tompedersen6564]

Joe, you have a knack for putting the hay down where the horses can eat it. Excellent, as always. Thanks for being here.

[@sethrich5998]

Hey so a few things to point out that are often missed in explaining the difference in MOA vs MIL. As you correctly stated, both are angular based measurements. MOA being defined as 1/60th of a degree. MILs are defined as an arc length 1/1000th the radius. This is an important definition because it is directly proportional to target size (arc length) and distance (radius) making it a more useful definition than MOA. Additionally MILs are not a metric unit, they just correlate to metric well because of the base 10 nature. With MILs, one MIL is 1m at 1000m, 1y at 1000y, 1in at 1000in, the unit doesn’t matter. The very definition of MILs is based on target size to distance proportion as opposed to being defined by an angle in MOA making MILs a more useful definition. Also for those who make the case for MOA due to familiarity with inches, 1/10th MIL, a typical click value is also essentially equivalent to 1/3 MOA making it just as easy to use when thinking in inches, 3 clicks per inch at 100y.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Great Post . Man thanks for the added info

[@charlesludwig9173]

MOA is defined by the USAMU as a unit of measurement which describes the distance in inches a sight adjustment will make at target distance. The concept is so simple to apply yet Soldiers and even trainers are prone to not understand and thus basic marksmanship instruction is conducted using the NSN 6920-01-395-1949 target which uses a printed grid to indicate sight adjustment need without need for MOA formula. Interestingly enough Soldiers seem to easily grasp MOA wind constant formula and apply it for excellent results from irons or ACOG.

[@brucelowell7506]

Everyone has an opinion

[@sethrich5998]

@@charlesludwig9173 “MOA” is literally a mathematical proof. It literally means 1/60th of a degree…. Minute (1/60th) of Angle (degree). What you stated is how the Army tries to explain that concept to people who don’t understand math.

[@charlesludwig9173]

@@sethrich5998 yeah, I am a Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS. The training guides and visual aids for these programs are proven to teach an understanding of MOA, as well as apply the knowledge to sight adjustment. In other words the instruction gets Soldiers an understanding of equations needed to properly adjust sight, hold or favor at target distance/conditions.BTW the instruction emphasizes mils in context to ranging and MOA in context to sight movement, holds, and favors, since the instruction is all about Marksmanship using an as issued M16-A4, or M4.

[@anthonydefreitas6006]

This is a topic that confuses even experienced shooters. Good explanation Joe. Quirky fact of the UK. We went metric in 1971, our speed limits are still in mph.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Lol, I didn’t know that

[@markkulyas2418]

And your still driving your cars on the wrong side of the road.

[@chris_ackroyd]

@@markkulyas2418 ...and our beer is in pints (but 20 fl.oz ones btw) 😳

[@bbutc]

We now buy our fuel in liters, but if you want to know how efficiently your car is burning that fuel it will be in MPG [ miles per gallon ] ... it's a crazy world.

[@petemelanyevans9162]

@@bbutc Its a sneaky way to sell it . Makes it look cheaper .

[@cavscout62]

I was raised shooting the MOA system and then the US Army taught me MILS. Once you learn the simple mathematical formula it’s a snap. I now just use the PA caliber specific scopes and man it’s a breeze. No more math, etc, just range hold squeeze. Perfect for a feeble minded old fart like me.

[@charlesludwig9173]

What was the context of training to understand mils?

[@Deathbomb9]

My learning of mils was more navigational and targeting from vehicles during overwatch. MOA was still the standard teaching with small arms because it's a smaller adjustment. Mils was something I had a chart for haha. One of those little spinners cheat charts even. I was taught eyeball ranging and powered mag ranging with MOA. Being on the Abrams, our GAS ranging gauge was set up to range a Soviet tank quickly. You could apply it to anything if you knew a standard height of said object or a part of that object. I've messed with mils post military service, but I personally find MOA easier to be able to apply it to different platforms and calibers.

[@Deathbomb9]

@@charlesludwig9173 generally the same sort you would go through for MOA if you had zero training and understanding prior. It's a little friendlier if you know metric measurements of objects, but you can still apply it to the inch standard if you know the conversations and how to add that into the equation.

[@Nothern_King]

Thank you for the video man. I'm a UK guy living in Canada just getting into target shooting. I'm much more comfortable with metric, but most videos I've seen explaining MIL still talk about it converted to inches. Hearing you talk about it in metric terms really sold me that i should get a MIL scope. 10cm at 100m is so easy to remember for me. Safe shooting man.

[@caerleon87]

MRAD makes things very easy. I naturally think in imperial, but MRADS make it so easy. Say you rifle is zeroed at 100 metres.. So you want to hit your target eh? First thing, how far is it?? Say it is a rabbit and it stands 6" high. That is 150mm How many mildots does it cover in your scope?? Say 1. Well, 150 metres/1 mildot = 150. The rabbit is 150 metres away... Now, say for the sake of argument, that you know that at 150 metres your bullet drops 1 1/2" MORE than it does at your zeroed range of 100 metres. Well, that is more or less 40mm. So 40mm/150 metres = 0.277 MRAD, that is your hold over..

[@AI-xe5jr]

I’m a new shooter in general and this video was really helpful. A lot of the other channels out there are breaking out the complicated mathematical equations that frankly is overwhelming for a beginner. This was straight to the point and fun.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks for that

[@lankyboy3344]

Mans just explained 3 different ways of shooting in 6 minutes that a lot of other guys take a full half hour to get through. Props to pops 👑

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thank You

[@heli-man-]

I am from UK and I was brought up with feet and inches and still use it as my preferred measurement.

[@ceterfo]

My first scope I bought for myself was Mill rad because you're already making me do math to shoot something I'm not doing math twice.

[@raycarl7933]

I haven’t see liqueur sold in 1/5 of a gallon in years. They sell it in 750ml bottles (slightly smaller) and , most dropped the alcohol content from 86 proof to 80.6 proof. Each hoping the buyer wouldn’t notice the changes. With that came price increases as wall. Good info on scope confusion as well.

[@MrTyroneweaver]

I use moa b/c one click on the turret moves the reticle less distance It' s finer adjustment.

[@tommyofthehillpeople]

A guy recently tried to convince me that i would miss my target/critter by 27" at 768 yards because i use MOA and dont factor the 0.047". That was a fun discussion. MOA is pretty damn easy being its 1inch(1.047) per 100 yards. Miss low by 4 inches at 400 yards? Dial up 1 moa. In mils, thats like .2 and 5/8 of a half liter or something. Ridiculous. Great video!

[@CJ-ty8sv]

off by 27" because of the .047" how the hell was he coming up with that quite specific number? I've been racking my brain for the several minutes now trying to figure out how he was arriving at that number. I mean, no matter how I try to incorrectly work the numbers, I cant come up with anything even close to the resulting 27" Also, if you know MOA, switching to MIL is actually pretty easy since 1MOA is basically 0.3MIL (well its really 0.29 but since MIL scopes are in 0.1MIL increments, its easy just to round up to .3 and the rounding error really doesn't become even remotely problematic until you are having to make 5+ MOA adjustments and even then, its not really much of an error). Basically, if you say know that you need to come up 2.5MOA, then just multiply that by 3 and move the decimal one place to the left and you have the MIL amount move (e.g., 2.5 * 3 = 7.5 so it would be 0.75 MIL but since you can only dial in 0.1 increments, you can go either 0.7 or 0.8 and be on pretty much spot on). As you can see, the error is small because if you use the more accurate 0.29 value, the result is 2.5 * 2.9 = 7.25 and them shift the decimal back one place and the value is 0.725MIL so. To give you another example, lets say that you need to come up 10" at 800yrs, you know that 1.25 MOA, so since its .3 to one, easy math is 1.25 * 3 = 3.75, shift the decimal back and you have 0.375 MIL so dial 0.4 and the difference is about 1.5" high error due do rounding and the fact that you can only dial in 0.1MIL increments. If you only dialed say 0.3 (i.e., round down), then you'll about 1.5" low. Which isn't really bad unless you are handloading and have developed a load that shoots with single digit ES's since a 10 FPS speed difference at 800yrds is easily worth 1.5" even with a relatively high B.C. projectile. What I always say though to anyone if they ask what kind of scope to get is get which ever you want but my advise is to get something that has a matching scaled reticle and preferably that is FFP... That way you don't have to worry about any of that because your reticle will tell you everything you need to know (assuming that you are not off outside of the FOV of your at the time.. In which case, if you are then you're SOL either way and you did something seriously wrong and possibly shouldn't be shooting a rifle anyways).

[@charlesludwig9173]

@@CJ-ty8sv That .047 is less than a half inch of bullet displacement at 1000 yards so let’s say the bullet strike is 40 inches off point of aim, then, .47 times 4 equals less than 2 inches of bullet displacement which might be worth backing off a quarter minute click but probably not since there’s no shooter on the planet that could hold a quarter minute at 1000 yards. At any rate, notions about what’s important to hitting targets at long range vary but I’ll put all my money on what the USAMU long range shooters have to say about it, not KZbin gurus.

[@CJ-ty8sv]

@@charlesludwig9173 Not sure you what part of my comment you are replying to because nowhere did I say or imply that that .047 was really a big deal. Can you please point me (quote me) the portion where you got the impression that I was saying or implying that it was a big deal? as for no one on the planet hold a 1/4 minute, that depends on the definition of "holding 1/4 minute". There are probably many people that can "hold" 1/4 minute but no on who can accurately determine all the variables necessary to achieve groups of 1/4 MOA at that distance but they are getting close since the current world record 1k yard 10 shot group is at 2.6566" (or .253 MOA

[@charlesludwig9173]

@@CJ-ty8sv I am implying that your impression is also mine, .047 is as moot as it is meaningless in context to it being important to hitting where aimed at long-range. My example proves it for any who have a notion that the fraction has any meaning. Creds: CMP-USAMU cert. Military Rifle Instructor assisting USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS training, US Distinguished Rifleman. and NRA High Master Long-Range Competitor. BTW I can hold under a half minute from irons at 100 yards but at 1000 yards from irons in prone sling supported position I can barely hold 2 MOA in prevailing wind shooting my match conditioned .223 AR in Service Rifle Dividion. Hold is the correct term since error is mostly about me not being able to see the target well enough to get an exactingly consistent sight picture from picture memory.

[@CJ-ty8sv]

@@charlesludwig9173 Ah ok gotcha. Sorry then for my misunderstanding of your comment. Yeah, that whole .047" error thing always boggles my why some people think that it's a big deal or a concern. Its almost like some have this notion of people shooting bughole groups at distance or are trying to shoot a dime (or any coin for that matter) at a thousand or something. I mean, yeah sure if we were shooting actual lasers where the only think of concern is refraction but yeah, that's not the case here.

[@tomcampanale8176]

Learn from the best, this man knows his stuff

[@hsharma3933]

I gotta tell you man - I have the utmost respect for people who have a physical impediment (like missing an eye) and bring levity into it by joking about it. Good on you man. That’s what drew me in. The information you provide is great as well. You’ve got another sub.

[@Puppy_Puppington]

Thanks for this comment omg I feel like such an ignoramus. For the last few days I could have sworn my brain remembered brevity synonymous with light-hearted. -.- it was levity my brain was looking for. All cause of the dumb rhyming. I was like wait, what? Brevity is the quick instance? Lmao thank you

[@e.l.robbins5614]

After watching this 2 times and playing with a mrad scope I think I got it. After research of the R.A.W. PCPs I ordered a RAW HM 1000x chassis in .22 cal this morning about 3am. I'll be kicking some ass with that bad rascle when it hopefully gets delivered by the end of the month. Thanks again Joe, your the best.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

You rock Buddy

[@mikesharp4033]

Thank you for this clear definition. I shall point our Club Members towards your explanation. A small correction: we do not "Hate the U,S.A." Here in the U.K. we positively embrace you all. That's why forward thinking "Limeys" still use yards. Compliments of the Season to you'll.

[@Jeff_Seely]

Very informative video and I commend you for a lot of very good information. But what a lot of folks don't know is milradian was first used in the US Military to calculate angular measurements for artillery and actually has nothing to do with the metric system. Here are examples in both imperial and metric: 1yard at 1000yards 1inch at 1000inches 1mile at 1000miles 1meter at 1000meters 1mm at 1000mm And so on, and so forth.

[@CheetahNL]

Makes sense, However, the metric system uses 10 base as default. How far away is 1000 inches? I know how far 1000 meters is. It's just one km, or as the military states, one click. :-)

[@Jeff_Seely]

Oh I most definitely agree with you. I have been a fan of the metric system since my youth. It is so much easier. After all you have 10 fingers and toes right? I'm only stating that people think that a milliradian it's a metric unit of measurement and it is not. It is an angular measurement. 1/1000 section of a circle is 1mil. I calculate everything and shoot in meters. I live by fort Hood and our two ranges in the area are measured in meters. I feel lucky 😁

[@richardofoz2167]

​​​​​@@Jeff_SeelyGood on you for being open to the metric system and for recognising how so much SIMPLER it is! I moved here to Aus after growing up in the US, and have always found it better than Imperial by a large margin. How/why carpenters, for instance, can be bothered using Imp when splitting fractional inches into equal parts is beyond me, when mm provide such an easy alternative. But you've erred in saying that a mil is 1/1000 section of a circle. It's 1/1000 of a radian, hence the name milliradian. And a radian is the section of a circle that is equal to the circle's radius, which explains why a mil is 1/1000 of the range to target.

[@bertcremers3134]

Hi Joe. It is a great relief -for a European- to hear from an American that the imperial system sucks. We get mad from your inches, feet, yards, land miles and nautical miles. Thanks to Napoleon we have got the metric system and it is the best. I saw your channel for the first time and wil subscribe to you.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks man , Americans are just hard headed is all lol

[@MlTGLIED]

But some tools, tv screen size, pipes, car rims size and so on are still in inches here in Germany.

[@tikkafoxer]

@@MlTGLIED Stimmt, dass sind noch Dingen wohmit ich Leben kann aber de rest :-(((

[@mitchmoe6224]

I have a leupold mark 4 mildot scope with moa turrets. I knew going into it that I'd have to deal with the conversion. I seen it at a local gun shop and used that as a bargaining strategy, I walked out with that scope for $750. I was more concerned about having good glass, I am good with the math so the challenge is actually ok.

[@michaelbritain5546]

UK shooter and I still use MOA in 1/8 th, I find it far easier than MIL, great video by the way, let the rest of the world have their metric measurements, I've never needed them. 👍

The funny part is that under the wood, inch and co now it's based on metrics system (not a joke >> Standards for the exact length of an inch have varied in the past, but since the adoption of the international yard during the 1950s and 1960s it has been based on the metric system and defined as exactly 25.4 mm.). Good video as usual ;)

[@motorteeth]

I'm taking precision machining right now and the math involved in it has helped me understand this video immensely.

[@miguelarce-goitia4395]

Valuable information and easy to understand. New and seasoned shooters can easily use it as a refresher class. Thank you.

[@Gh05tk3y]

This is very relevant to me. I'm moving from NJ to PA and I'm excited to get my first gun but there's a lot I don't know yet, including how scopes work. Thank you for the good information, I'll be looking through the rest of your videos and learning as much as I can.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks Dan

[@dmo848]

Screw Jersey. U can't do anything without the cops being called on you. So much better once I left. I'm in Florida and I now can open my back door and sit on the deck n shoot. No one cares cause they do it also. Same with riding ATVs around. What's the issue. I jus don't get people at times. I'm sure u get what I'm saying

[@2clicksup910]

What is normally confusing “mumbo jumbo”, is explained clearly and in extremely plain English. You would probably make an excellent Maths teacher. And, your “cheap” scopes are absolutely streets ahead of our “cheap” scopes. Cheers from Down Under.

[@tomfavre669]

You have som OF THE BEST video's on KZbin.!! KEEP EM COMING PLEASE.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Wow, thanks for that !

[@JohnWilliamsFromBluff]

Good on you Joe, for commenting on the USA being out of step with the rest of the world when it comes to metric vs. Imperial, and the little news flash around 1:39. It's really nice to see people who can laugh at themselves, and see their own flaws. Keep up the good work! (A long-time subscriber, first time commenter --- IIRC.)

[@ElijahTucke]

The imperial system existed before the metric system if you do a deep dive on history. Just for your humor.

[@derekgargan5080]

I am new to scopes, and struggled to convert my 100yd per click to my 25 and 50 meter airgun range. This helped a lot. Thanks

[@truthjunkie9218]

Do you realize what would happen if we changed over to the metric system, putting 80's on speed limit signs in place of 50's?!

[@SylentONE]

No bueno 😂

[@johnnyv.223]

Your video gets right to the important information. All signal, no noise. I learned more in a few minutes of watching your video than another long one. Thank you for your clear explanations! I'm too dang old to waste my time watching without learning anything.

[@payres48]

In Australia we use both MOA and MRAD. It usually comes down to the individuals preference.

[@PatRMG]

I know that MIL is Mother-in-law. Still haven't figured out the MOA reference.

[@themarshal2749]

Its moldy old ass

[@PatRMG]

@@themarshal2749 Thank goodness. I have some turrets that feel like that.

[@themarshal2749]

@@PatRMG gotta have that click. Its really not the same without it.

[@eatnsteel]

Joe just explained what MOA meant when he said how rest of the world views us. “ MOTHERFUCKERS OF AMERICA” because we refuse to get right with the rest of the world!!

[@drjoshuamc]

Men of Arms/America

[@joesashiify]

This made more sense than any other video I've seen on mils & moa. Thank you, sir. 🙏👍

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

I just wanted to say that MOA and MRAD are not actually imperial or metric per se. They're just different ways of calculating angles. MRAD can work really well with yards as well--what it does is that it can then break things down by 1000's really easily. With MOA you're better off using Trigonometry or using semi accurate short cuts like the 100yds/rule of thumb. I wish we were off the MOA habit, but like you said, we're too goddam stuck in our ways! Great video!

[@bobn1605]

You are 100% right. Mil has nothing to do with metric. The only thing it shares is its in 10's. I guess when my grand kids turn ten they will be metric.

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

@@bobn1605 Yes, we will now refer to our age in MIL, and break down 12 months to ten, so that 1.2 months equals 1/10 of a MIL. LoL!!

[@CJ-ty8sv]

@@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc 🤣🤣🤣 that's F'ing funny... It took me a minute to get it.... so with rounding, I'm 45.1MIL's (or Clicks old)... I think then next time someone asks me how old I am, Im gonna tell them in click (like I'm 45.1clicks old) just to see the dumbfounded WTF look on their face

[@KimmyR3]

radians is an SI unit, i.e. metric

[@CJ-ty8sv]

​@@KimmyR3 No, its just what the angular division system that the International System of Units (SI) elected to use. Just like how Pi (3.14159.....) or anything Trig is not specific to metric or imperal and doesn't care what units the other numbers are, it doesn't care what the units or measurements are. It simply is a division of a circle where 1 radian is the angle formed when the arc length between two radial end-points is equal to the radius of the circle. Its works identically the same regardless of the units (metric or imperial) and is MUCH easier then angles in degree's, minute's and second's as long as you use the same units for input vs what you want output because its all in 10's, 100's and 1000's. and is simply a matter of moving the decimal. Since we are dealing with rifle scopes here, I'll give you an example that would be common to it. At 100 yards, a miliradian is equal to 3.6inch of vertical change because a yard is 36 inchs (remember I said its easiest if the units are the same...) So 100 yards is simply 100 groups of 36 inches or simply 100 x 36 = 3600 and since a miliradian is 1/1000 (or .001) of a radian, we simply divide that 3600 by 1000 (i.e., shift the decimal back 3 places and we have 3.6 thus 3.6 inches Now if we had a 100 meter range, we wanted to know the vertical change for one miliradian in centimeters, we do basically the same thing, change the meter to centimeters (just like we did with yard to inches above) and since there is 100 centimeters in a meter, its simply 100 groups of 100 or 100 x 100 = 10,000 and thus we divide by 1000 like we did above (again, because the mliradian is 1/1000 of a radian), we have 10,000 / 1000 = 10 (or 10 centimeters. Radians dont care what the units are because it doenst know if you are saying 100 yard, meters, miles, kilometers, ect... when, its simply multiplies and divisors by 10's, 100's, 1000's etc... and just to show that the first example in yards worked exactly as it should have, we'll convert to meters and centimeters then back to inches of the final result. 100 yards is 91.44 meters, so we have 91.44 x 100 (convert distance to centimeters) so we have 9144 then we divide that by 1000 and we have 1 miliradian at 91.44 meters is 9.144 centimeters. now to convert that to inches, we divide that by 2.54 (since there is 2.54 centimeters in an inch) (i,e., 9.144 / 2.54) and we have 3.6 inches (the same as we got in the first example.. because radians doesn't care about the units, it's simply math using 10's, 100's, 1000's, etc....)

[@henrymoreland8719]

Feel sorry for us UK folk, we use both, Miles Per Hour in our cars and speak of Miles Per Gallon, but fill up in litres. And then Grams and Kilos in weights but then LB Oz (pounds, ounces) when we shop for some goods. see also sub12 (air guns) Great Video Joe, if I watch it a few time I will get the Gist

[@henrymoreland8719]

PS Beer at the supermarket ml, in the pub Pints.

[@bobn1605]

Mils is NOT metric. It just happens to be in 10's. Has zero....zero, to do with metric. I do love Joe's videos, and he's probably trying to simplify things.

[@steveshell6576]

Agree because he said 10 cm is 3.6” which is incorrect. There are 2.54 cm per inch or 25.4 mm. 10 divided by 2.54 equals 3.937 which is a difference of a little over 15/16 (.3125) of an inch. This makes a large difference at extreme ranges. I have been dealing with the conversion of metric to imperial for almost 30 years. I am a machinist/ tool & die we deal with degrees, minutes and seconds on a regular basis. We also have to convert metric to inch on a regular basis. Yes it is very close but not the same.

[@beenschmokin]

Facts are irrelevant here. That's why people hate America.

[@jefferygreen4740]

I do appreciate you video, it does explain it well. I spent a day or two in the military, as a Forward Overserved. We delt almost excusably with Mills, 6400 mills to a circle. But I am an American, NOT a Eruopean. We deal in Inches, Feet, Yards and Miles.

[@MrRockstar1968]

I spent months looking into this to try and figure it out and discovered that one 0.1 click of MRAD = 9.14mm at 100 yards and that one 1/4 (0.25) click of MOA = 6.6mm at 100 yards.

[@woodybatter3896]

😡 you just made me do math!

[@ellobo1326]

Yep. Roughly .36 inch versus .25 inch movement per click at 100 yards.

[@MrRockstar1968]

@@ellobo1326 You can also get 1/8 (0.12) click of MOA = 3.3mm at 100 yards.

[@sloth6765]

@@MrRockstar1968 any scopes 1/20 mrad/mils?

[@MrRockstar1968]

@@sloth6765 Not that I am aware of. I've looked at hundreds of scopes from many different manufacturers and have never seen a 1/20 mrad/mil. All I have ever seen is either 1/4 or 1/8 MOA and 0.1 MRAD, and I think I recently seen a 0.05 MRAD which I found odd given this would bee 20 clicks to ever MIL rather than 10 clicks every MIL. Though can't recall where I seen this or whether I had some strange dream. lol

[@tonysimpson4297]

Thanks for explaining about moa and mill dot Jo I'm seventy years old and I still shoot air rifles I'm still old school

[@coffee_drinker2912]

My mind thinks in terms of inches/feet/miles. MOA for myself.

[@alifonso1981]

The greatest and easiest breakdown of MOA vs. MIL ever 🙌🏽

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thank you

[@Fister_of_Muppets]

You could really confuse someone by showing them a cheap Amazon scope that has some weird Russian mil reticle, 1/4" turrets, and advertised in MOA. I'd like to see that dope sheet.

[@ckg1776]

MOA is everywhere in Australia. Very popular and we use the metric system.

[@stephenthompson9722]

Yes and I'm considering switching to a Mil scope but if I do that....I have to consider that all of our targets are in inches...

[@Smootus]

This is a true, easy video.... great explaining how each works. This is where math can make your shooting easier and better. I know imperial measurements are the norm here but metric is sure easier to figure out! Thanks for posting this video and explaining each!

[@robertgwalsh5878]

I am one of those hard-headed individuals, and I have no problem with it. Very good video. Thank you.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Excellent!

[@CplSkiUSMC]

I'm very familiar with the metric system, I was a science major in collage and you don't get away without learning metric. But I still didn't quite get milradian which is not specifically metric but based on 1000 which works well with the metric system because as you pointed out, metric is base 10. That's changing because of educational videos like this one. One mil is one inch at a thousand inches... wha??? How much is a thousand inches?? Da fk? 1000 inches is 27.78 yards. How useful is that?? Not flippin very... but one mil is one meter at a thousand meters, divide by 10 and 1 mil is 10 centimeters at 100 meters. Ha! That means .1 mil (1 tenth) is 1 cm at 100m and since 2.54cm = 1 inch then .1 mil = .39 inches at one hundred METERS. It's only .36 inches at one hundred YARDS. Holy shit, there's smoke coming out of my ears... I need a beer to put that sumbitch out.

[@JoseSantos-jd3dn]

mil is a 1 to 1000 relationship, used in europe since a lot of time ago. is´nt a metric system, but due to the metric system is very easy to make adjusts .1 mil at 100 meters=1 cm at 1000=10cm at 10.000=100cm

[@CplSkiUSMC]

@@JoseSantos-jd3dn True, the mil radian system isn't specifically metric, as you point out it's a 1 to 1000 relationship. Since the metric system is base ten it lends itself very nicely to the mil radian system. But 1 mil is also 1 inch at 1000 inches or 1 yard at 1000 yards. Since the imperial system is not base ten it makes it very difficult to use mils. But if you've grown up with the imperial system and learned minute of angle from day one, then MOA becomes just as easy.

[@JoseSantos-jd3dn]

@@CplSkiUSMC for me is dificult what i´ve got. it´s a mtc viper pro but dont know why the recticle is in mils and the turrets are in .25 moa😄

[@CplSkiUSMC]

@@JoseSantos-jd3dn Oh man, those were the worst. You're right, Mil/MOA scopes were the worst idea ever, I don't know why they ever made them, and as far as I know, they don't make them any more. That's rough. My sympathies.

[@benstryffeler3016]

Seriously man, great job giving a quick class on this stuff!!! I needed to knock the dust off my knowledge of this stuff and this was F’ing awesome! Now I just need to get the rifle to go with my new ATCAR NightForce scope and get her dialed in! Haha

[@AirRifleActivities]

I just had to watch your way of explaining this 😊 Well done, Joe! And no, it's not true that the rest of the world hates you 😉

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Lol, thanks

[@richardofoz2167]

​@@CyclopsJoeVideosyes it is!

[@richardofoz2167]

So glad to see a Yank providing an explanation of MOA/Mils that avoids the usual errors. But youve misspomen in saying that 1 MOA Is approx 1/4 inch at 100yds. Its actually 1.05 inches at 100 yds, which is the source of the APPROXIMATION that 1 MOA = 1 INCH, which in turn is why US shooters like MOA. Its a simple rule, but not quite right, whereas the 1/1000 relationship between mil and range is both simple AND right. But forget those conversions of 27.8 youve shown on one of your slides. It may give the right answer in the classroom, but has no place in the field when your elk is moving over the ridge and doesnt feel likd waiting while you do the math. 1 mil is 1%1000 of the range to target, whether youre using metres, yards or anythings.

[@nalby2]

Don't be a MOA-ron listen to Joe

[@eddieb9110]

MOA is more precise.

[@martinmckowen1588]

Actually it is “milliradians”. Milli being 1/1000 or 0.001. Or the angle created by one yard at one thousand yards, or metres. Given that I served in the Australian military it was in metres and kilometres. Our binoculars had 5, 10, etc mils marked so if you knew the distance you could also know the lateral distance. Mils is much easier to use.

[@smrettpecca]

Nice Try Matey! But as long as Imperial Blockheads ignore the " metrical system " , you can talk to a wall, or a parking meter: :D ;) Thumps up for your Engagement.

[@eddieb9110]

How many degrees in a metric circle?

[@smrettpecca]

@@eddieb9110 360. but MIL isn't based on degrees. It's based on " Strich " wich is the tenth of one degree. As you can see the number ten is more important in the metrical system as the number twelve. ;)

[@eddieb9110]

@@smrettpecca it's based on radians. Minutes of angle are actually more precise. So what exactly are you trying to tell "the wall"?

[@smrettpecca]

@@eddieb9110 one degree got sixty minutes. If you usw the scope as rangefinder, IT will complicated everything. Mr. Wall 😂

[@eddieb9110]

@@smrettpecca what do the formulas for each look like?

[@thinkinsidetheboxsquarecir3303]

He's full of useful knowledge that the new generation wouldn't appreciate 🏌🏽‍♂️

[@jagzilla1398]

The rest of the world is wrong...Let me ask you..Is a measurement based on the speed of light or the diameter of the planet you're on better? Is a measurement created by a german physicist or a swedish astronomer better? You tell me...

[@robroberts6096]

yes

[@aaaqqwwqqddsw5509]

This guy explained it better than my trigonometry teacher. Thanks for the video.

[@stalkinghorse883]

The metric system is for countries that don't have a flag on the moon.

[@Jayflyfishguy]

Hmm. Let's see the ww2 german scientist's that got you to the moon used metric. The apollo guidance computer used metric only the read out was in imperial and China has a flag on the moon, metric.

[@R1Kyle]

Have you ever seen the movie Deliverance --> That is pretty typical of most of America, not all but most of it.

[@blackhawkgilgamesh8228]

Metric system is more precise than imperial system.

[@jeffbyrd3907]

If God wanted us to use the metric system, Jesus would have only had 10 disciples

[@Eleanor8965]

When the rest of the world wins back to back world wars they can use whatever measurement systems they want

[@adubeauify]

Have both MOA and MIL scopes, I prefer my MIL scope and plan on switching out my remaining MOA's for MILS when the funds allow.. Great vid as always .

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thank You

[@tolipapa1]

Getting ready to purchase a scope and with your explanation, I do have a better understanding to what I want.. And yes inches ,feet, yards, gallon etc for me also LOL Great job brother...

[@kevinstoughton8476]

You the man buddy. Another video that is sure to help a lot of people. Have a good one! Stoti

[@crypto_creep8222]

I watch your videos like people watch there favorite show. SOME ONE GIVE THUS MAN HIS OWN SHOW

[@markn4526]

Good explanation! It sounds to me like each click of an 1/4 MOA adjustment turret is about 1/10 of an inch more precise than each click of a 1/10 MIL adjustment turret at 100 yards/meters, for example.

[@citronski]

Cheers for the information, as a newbie i was looking for exactly that definition of terms. BTW, few people really hate the US, most of them would change their mind if they would visit you guys.

[@ashy1423]

Great video, Thank you! You just stopped me from spending £500 of my friends money when he asked me to pick up a scope for him, on a scope that would have given me a headache as you described. Stay well God bless, Ashraf from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Subscribed 👍

[@rubberduck5905]

New to long range shooting.., stumbled across your channel trying to educate myself on MOA. You just gained a subscriber!

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks

[@seanhartman6496]

We use both Imperial and Metric daily in the U.S. Both systems are on our speedometers in our cars and just about everything we buy is listed in both systems. Some things we buy are only sold in metric, like 1, 2, and 3 litre soda bottles.

[@centurione6489]

As a (proud) immigrant to the US this ... thing blows my mind.🤯 Not only do I have all the conversion problems but I also second guess myself if my new MIL Leupold matches a hypothetical MOA setting ...😅

[@circlebird8765]

That was a succinct and easy to understand explanation. Thank you for this and thank you for not taking half an hour to explain it.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

You're very welcome!

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

We use metric system around here and my reticles are in mil-Rad. When I’m shooting a pistol, revolver, or any rifle that doesn’t have a scope, I do the math of my group sizes using MOA, is just simpler.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Yep

[@skinnymitchairgunbrotherho7152]

I watched your old video on this. But this new one is much more informative. You actually answered a couple questions in this video that I could not figure out. Which was very frustrating. So thank you so very much for the updated version.

[@jimpalmer4916]

Simply put: a milrad scope adjusts 1/10 of 3.438 inches = .3438 inches per click at 100 meters or 109 yards A m.o.a. scope using the 1/4 adjustment per click takes 4 clicks per inch. The difference between the two equals 3 for the milrad at 100 meters for a one inch change of impact . The m.o.a. scope requires 4 clicks of adjustment per inch at 100 yards. I use them both and have been very successful with them both. For example: a 308 winchester with a 100 yard zero firing a 150 grain bullet will need a 2 Inch elevation change to hit the mark at 200 yards. So you adjust the scope up 8 clicks, which is 2 inches. The milrad scope is dead on at 100 meters, so you'll have to adjust your scope up 5 clicks, or half a milrad, for hitting the mark at 200 yards. If your target is at 200 meters, it takes 6 clicks at 200 meters. Both systems work very well, it's just a matter of mathematics and experience.

[@shannonherb2048]

The metric system is easy, but I prefer to use imperial. I'm southern enough said.

[@sertanask9307]

The best explanation I have ever sene through the internet. Especially to understand the earth is bigger that the USA and explaining in mils also Perfect. 👍🏻✌️

[@billdonoho3905]

My opinion! For standard deer hunting in my area MOA, will do the job! For competitive shooting long distance MIL is the way to go!

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Great tip man thanks

[@petermccracken2247]

THANK YOU !! This is another WELL DELIVERED MESSAGE. Like all your videos, your message is - to the point without being boring. Keep Up The Great Job That You Are Doing For The Benefit Of All Shooters. Once Again - Thank You.

[@justincase2291]

Very good explanation. As someone who has always used "Kentucky windage" 1/4" is my go to. But I'm getting old and my eyes don't work as well and I'm thinking about learning something new.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

I tried and made it easy to understand

[@rkba4923]

For anyone that understands MOA, to convert MRAD/MIL to MOA (say you have to pick up a UN weapon in the coming months or years, or something!), just realize every 3/10th MIL/MRAD = 1 MOA (not exact but damn close). There's 3.44 MOA per MRAD/MIL. So, take your MIL reading and divide by 3 for MOA, e.g. 2.1 MRAD/MIL = 7 MOA. (21/3=7). Hope that makes sense and helps someone. NOTE: This is for practical, in the field, shooting and NOT for shooting one hole, ten shot groups at 6 million yards.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Great tips man , thanks

[@kencrowe1965]

Fantastic as always!!! You really know how to make points, that it takes others to do in an hour video, lol!!! Thank you again for another great video!!!

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks Ken

[@pickr2604]

Man that was awesome! Cleared up a lot of questions. Thank you!

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Glad it helped!

[@ernestgtipping3313]

I love it Yards, Feet, & inches. 30 yrs retired & I'm not going to change now. & enjoyey your videos. Cheers Tippo.UK.GB.

[@soultaff]

Goddam Joe 👍 , I didn’t realise I’m following a supreme mathematician 😃 . I’m stoked ! Seriously tho my great friend, you really do know your shit 💪. As for counting in ‘ old money ‘ I’m with you on that buddy . I’m a Welshman that was brought up on stuff that made sense , like , feet and inches. Keep the metric bollox to those that want it , simples ! Rant over Joe 😃 . Stay safe, be well buddy . Dave UK 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@smudgepost]

THANK YOU! This is the video I needed. Found my ideal scope but it's in MIL so needed to learn fast!

[@bobparvin9773]

Either way, it really pays off to study all of the details, then you will know what to do regardless of which scope you're going to use. Semper Fi.

[@atomicbonds6790]

Thank you for taking the time to educate me and thousands of others. Great video. Milradian is what I buy my scopes in.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thanks for watching!

[@davea.9570]

Fantastic. Any videos on scopes, ranging, mils etc I truly appreciate. Anything on ballistic coefficient with some tips would be awesome too! Thanks Joe

[@user-se8ds5ev5k]

For deer hunting out to 300 yards, the moa scopes are good enough. For long range precision shooting, I will always go with the milrad scope. All of my deer hunting rifles have moa scopes and my dedicated long range sniping rifle has a milradian scope. You have to know how to convert yards into meters to be proficient with both sides of the coin, and that there is the bottom line. A yard is .914 of a meter. 1000 yards is equivalent to 914 meters. 1000 meters is equivalent to 1094 yards. It's all about the math.

[@aussiefarmer8741]

I'm Australian and learnt both so I'm good thanks. Still a bit dodgy with chains, phathoms and other less used measurement.Good vid thanks.

[@ShadowMan-ks5vo]

Dude your videos are awesome I just wanted to say thanks cause of you I've made the purchase for my rifles even my air rifles just wanted to say thanks from one of your biggest fans

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Wow , thanks for that

[@ctcgator1]

Thanks Joe that did help alot!! Been shooting a long time and never really understood ,but that cleared that up nicely !! Thank you!!!!

[@ronstoner1823]

I bought my first MOA scope recently. It wasn't really a conscious choice, it was just the right scope at the right price. Of course I had to buy 30mm scope rings, but zeroing it was pretty basic. You turn the turrets to zero it in, that's it!

[@the4hunters]

This video was exactly what I needed for explanation how my new lpvo reticle works! Vortex Does a poor job on their manual, but you did A+

[@Johnsormani]

Mrad doesn’t only work right with the metric system but is universal . The magic number is 1000. in metric 1 mrad at 100 m is 100/1000= 10 cm. In imperial 100 yards is 3600 inch/1000 = 3.6 Inch. In bananas 100 bananas/1000 is 1/10 banana. And while MOA is sort of close to an inch at 100 yards, the error becomes big when shooting at long distances

[@jasona2837]

5 minutes of knowledge dropped on us! Love it!!!

[@dmo848]

Jus got discovery vtr scope from Amazon for my break barrel. This is the stuff I should have learned. Well now I Kno next time.

[@petermurdoch3001]

I'm an old enough Canadian that still uses standard measures , Metric came to Canada in the 70's , complete conversion was 1985ish

[@Saxomonk]

The information you provide is great. You’ve got another sub. respect for joking about Cyclops.

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Thank You for that

[@malthus101]

In the UK, speed is measured in miles per hour. Cooking weights are in pounds and ounces. Measuring stuff like in carpentry would be meters, centimeters and millimeters but you might describe a rooms size in square feet. Land would be measured in acres... height in feet and inches... shoe size is similar to the US but one size lower. Bags of sugar would be weighed in kilos though, narcotics would be grams but also 8ths of an ounce (depends on the drug of choice!) And buying a soda bottle would be a litre but a beer in a pub would be a pint. Yah.... very English.

[@malcolmgary1086]

Thanks for an easy to understand presentation... and always with a bit of humor.