Party God Got Dark FAST | Overly Sarcastic Productions

[@Airier]

Trying something new in this video. Using a bit of audio in the intro. What's everyone think?

[@tusk3260]

It is cool to have low background audio during you into, but... Where's the next episode of Star Wars vs 40K?

[@jannegrey]

It's okay - I would turn down the volume just a bit, because at some points it is getting in the way of hearing what you're saying. But only very little, so maybe 5% down?

[@marcosrauth2234]

Cool, but Play the Hades game. Zagreus is the main character.

[@thegloriouswizard5270]

Working good Brudda☆

[@samrevlej9331]

Good!

[@hakulives2613]

If you're interested in the fact that Persephone and Demeter were around in Mycanean times but Hades wasn't, there's a whole-ass video about him and Persephone where Red explores this in detail! Definitely recommend it, it's DEEPLY cool!

[@martincibik3997]

definitely second that. it's my favourite video of hers.

[@7Seraphem7]

I love that the game Hades acknowledged the whole Dionysus/Zagreus conflation and the whole Orphic Cult.... by having the stories conflating the two of them all be a practical joke the two of them tried to play on Orpheus, but the dude took seriously and never realized was a joke.

[@HBHaga]

Welcome to the true rabbit hole of OSP! Red does several more of these deep dives (Hades and Persephone, Aphrodite, Hermes, Loki, etc) and a LOT of it can be cross-referenced to Blue's historical vids about similar times and places. Red didn't major in mythology or folklore, she was a Math major. She took a bunch of Classics courses and they took hard.

[@songhuy8908]

Apollo and Artemis too !

[@drpigglesnuudelworte5209]

Did she take enough to, in theory, minor in it (you only get a minor if you put in 18 hours and then say “I minored in classics” at graduation)? Bc that would make sense

[@greenhydra10]

Weird, almost like the embodiment of drunkeness is incredibly chaotic.

[@ilkkaetula2038]

Calling Alexander the great nicknames like Alexander the alright is a running joke in OSP videos. You can look forward to many more of them.

[@alexwisz9527]

32:55 there are glorious references to this in the video game "Hades", which features Zagreus as protagonist. As your relationship with Dionysus develops he comes up with an idea to deliberately muddy some of their stories together, basically as a prank on mortals.

[@koalatydm]

specifically Zagreus tricks Orpheus, which is an even funnier reference

[@samrevlej9331]

12:51 Not "Slavic", "syllabic", meaning writing characters represent syllables and not shorter phonemes like our Latin alphabet.

[@nikoguarro]

He pauses all the time. He needs to stop commenting on everything and allow the videos to finish their sentences

[@kurotsuki7427]

​@nikoguarro ya im starting to notice that. "What? I wonder what happened, may be-" Dude, dude shes about to tell you why.

[@nemthos2605]

12:10 Blue speaks about that in one of his History Hijinks videos. Got to blame Rome for the name Greece. Basically, they discovered an city outpost of one of greeces citystates and just assumed that all people from that region belong to the same tribe (Graeci).

[@weldonwin]

As a general rule, when asking why things are they way they are in Western Europe, blame the Romans

[@geonunes10]

They also shared a cultural identity loosely, which outsiders like Romans saw enough similarities to lump all of them together. It was something like modern day Latin America. Each country has their own individual identity but there is enough historical/cultural overlap among them to unify them as a broader unique culture

[@Alurkerdood]

The problem with Dionysus is that his mysteries/cult had secrets that many of their practitioners took with them to the grave. So details can get scant when your cult will kill you to keep you from spreading their knowledge to those whom can record it.

[@gokbay3057]

Airier: "I actually know about this one!" I am expecting he will be very surprised and learn several new things through the video lol.

[@asperRader]

Saying it's an hour long, it seems very likely lmao

[@geonunes10]

He should have figured it out by just looking at the og video length.

[@Pridam]

Not all Titans participated in the Titanomachy, the war between the Greek Gods and the Titans and thus the Titans who didn't take part in the war were spared from punishment. Oceanus, the Titan of the Seas was a neutral party and was thus allowed to remain free. Rhea was the Titaness mother of Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, and Hestia. Because she was their mother, and was on the side of the Greek Gods, she was also spared In Greek myth, Hestia was anything BUT a hothead. She was a warm and kind goddess who never wanted trouble, or be involved in any conflict. She represented the hearth, and the feeling of being comfortable at home

[@cerberus0225]

Oh, to expand a bit on "what predates the Mycenaeans", some context. Its thought that Proto-Indo-European broke apart around 2500 BC, spreading across a wide portion of Europe and West Asia, essentially. Its thought that the Proto-Greeks migrated from an ancestral land north of the Black Sea south into the Balkans sometime around 2200 BC (give or take 200 years), though they didn't expand across all of it. At this point, they mainly took the highlands. Regions like future Athens, Sparta, Thessaly, etc weren't reached yet. This distribution is based on these regions having chiefly Greek place-names, while the southern regions preserve both Greek and non-Greek place names, indicating that they were settled later on. Mycenaean Greece comes around about 1750 BC, occupying little of the same territory that we identify with Proto-Greeks and basically all the same territory we'd traditionally associate with Classical Greece, in essence. This means we have about a 500 year span where it is extremely unclear what happened and how. Did the Proto-Greeks go conquering south and impose themselves on the existing populations? Was there a slow merger of the two cultures? Did the existing people south of them just adopt the Proto-Greek language for some reason? Were the people outside Mycenaean Greece in the Proto-Greek area also speaking Greek? How do the Thracians, Illyrians, Phrygians, and other contemporaries of Classical Greece fit into this? We know those were all Indo-European languages as well, but were they closely related to Greek or even siblings? We essentially have no idea. On top of that, who were the people who existed there before? We can strongly guess that they had ties to the nearby Minoan civilization, and/or to the nearby peoples in Anatolia (such as the Luwians, another Indo-European people who spoke a language related to Hittite). We might even be able to tie them to the Lemnian language, which is suspected to be part of a larger family called Tyrsenian, related to Etruscan and Rhaetic. The distribution of this family (if a family it indeed is) would imply that the group was once much more widely spread, and presumably areas that once spoke related languages were taken over by Indo-European peoples, such as the Proto-Greeks. But, all in all, there's little than can be done except to speculate.

[@Justic_]

to elaborate a bit more on the Mycenaean pantheon and the cthonic bits: As Red said, Poseidons main cthonic trait seems to have been his epithet as the "landshaker" which implies he was a god of earthquakes the same way Zeus is considered a god of lightning even though his main domain is the sky. Basically, it doesn't seem like he was a "god of the underworld" the same way Hades would be later (although it would ironically somewhat link him to the Japanese god Susanoo, god of storms linked to the sea who later on in his myth also became a god of the underworld appearently), but as his power over earthquakes was linked to the ground the people back then somehow seemingly reasoned that into power over the underworld. As for Hades and Persephone, Red of course has another video where she'll go over them in a similar way, although not much to Hades' potential origin. This right now is just my personal headcanon, but since the location of the underworld itself is called Hades as well, I feel there's a mix-up that might've happened there. Not sure if we have sources if the underworld was already called Hades or something of the sort in Mycenaean Greek, or explicit sources that the name for the underworld came way after the god popped up, but I could definitely see something like people over the Dark Ages forgetting that Hades was the place and making him the god instead just to mix with the people that remembered it as a place after a while (perhaps some misunderstanding around Hades' "kidnapping" of Persephone, who was already linked to the underworld originally, maybe a misreading of the action could've caused a personification?), or the moment the word "Hades" first popped up in the Dark Ages for the place, there was a misunderstanding that caused some to understand him as a god instead. Also, interestingly enough, and this will somewhat tie into another of Reds videos down the line, I've recently learned that Ariadne, who helped Theseus through the labyrinth to face the minotaur, was appearently engaged with/married to Dionysus in older myths, while later myths had her get married to Dionysus after she was left on an island by Theseus, so that looped around, but also adds to Dionysus' connection to Crete. Also... since it's almost tradition for me at this point, Dionysus' take in Fate: Interestingly, he's appearently not one of the 12 Olympians in Fate, Hestia still holds that title, which also means that Dionysus presumably doesn't exhibit the same... unique, "deus-ex-machina" properties as the other Greek gods in Fate, without trying to spoil too much about that.

[@joshuadrain8856]

I think the reason we lump all those city-states together as 'Ancient Greece' is because they were all culturally connected to a degree.

[@TheArcSet]

I was looking forward to this. Thanks for the reaction. Basically, Romans said oh, you're Greek, so all those people and cultures are now called Greek. Now you've a taste, I'm looking forward to the full ancient _Dread_ Persephone reaction.

[@SixArmedSweater]

Seconding this request. 💕

[@yogurtofthemultiverse2200]

​@@SixArmedSweaterthirding this request

[@bradlyhaskell9821]

@@yogurtofthemultiverse2200 Forth(ing this request)

[@DragonGirlStar]

@@yogurtofthemultiverse2200 FOURTHING

[@anzaca1]

38:19 For ancient Greece, a "cult" was literally just the term for those that worshipped a psecific god/goddess. ALL Greek gods and goddesses had their own cult. For a modern example, those that follow Christianity could be said to be part of the Christian cult. The word cult simply means something different to us.

[@Nitrinoxus]

Airier wasn't too far off the mark when he said that Dionysus's actions in The Bacchae seemed weirdly personal. Pentheus wasn't just some random king -- _he's Dionysus's _*_cousin,_* the son of Semele's mother's sister Agave. The story is basically Dionysus visiting his mortal relatives, getting pissed that they're insulting his mother by calling her a liar when she claimed to have been with Zeus, and taking revenge on them one by one until they accept that Semele was telling the truth.

[@HannahBanina]

Red should honestly make what I like to call the Deity Deep-Dives their own playlist. The one on Hades and Persephone is probably my favorite (Loki being a close second) but they’re all awesome. Fortunately, all of them are still in the Miscellaneous Myths playlist, so boy are you gonna have a fun time 😁

[@basicsimp8798]

Hera's action is actually understandable. She's the Goddess of Marriage. Of course she gets angry when Zeus cheats on her. But since Zeus is stronger than her she takes revenge and punishes the woman he cheats with instead.

[@ikeboo518]

Trust me, if you thought *this* was as crazy as it gets... Well, let's just say there's a reason I've come to read Persephone as a Goddess of _Rot and Decay_ in addition to the whole Queen of The Underworld thing

[@MySerpentine]

She's also kinda a goddess of winter.

[@Kamui_Azur]

By technicality. In reality it's her mother being bummed out that Persephone's in the Underworld that causes winter. Persephone primarily is an Underworld Goddess, hence why one of her most well known epithets is "Dread", as in Dread Persephone. She was more feared than Hades.

[@MySerpentine]

@@Kamui_Azur Oh yeah, I know. Dread Persephone is *scary.*

[@yamakaze951]

Also, to Ancient Greeks, the season of dying plant life is actually summer than winter

[@Kamui_Azur]

That's actually interesting. Never would have guessed that what we knew as winter would be known as summer, or at least something similar, to the Ancient Greeks.

[@ShahroozSmith]

The whole gist about "Alexander the Pretty Alright" is that when Blue did a history video about Alexander the Great, he ended up naming him "Alexander the (insert word)" so now any time Alexander the Great is referenced in an OSP video, they say "Alexander the (insert word)."

[@mikukurisaki3413]

Possibility for the death and rebirth thing: grapes. They die (season ends) and the "party drink" dwindles while everyone tries to keep the current stock long enough for it to come around again.

[@oldeskul]

Orpheus was the guy who went to the underworld to petition Hades and Persephone for the return of the woman he loved. he was allowed to take her back to the land of the living under one condition, he not look back until they were back in the land of the living. As they get close, he doesn't hear her footfalls, looks back to make sure she was still behind him, he saw not his living love, but her in her dead form, different tellings describe what he sees differently, some say she was a shade, others that she was a shadow, others that she was a full-on ghost, and some describer her as a walking corpse. Because Orpheus didn't keep his end of the bargain, his love was forced to stay in the underworld. At some point after returning to the land of the living, Orpheus was ripped apart by a group of women, some tellings say it was princesses, some say it was priestesses, others say that it was common women, all agree that they were under the thrall of madness induced by Dionysus. Orphic mystery cults would feature, among other things, a lengthy play about the life and death of Orpheus. Orphic cults would have rituals to gods of the underworld and gods of madness from all over the known world, not just Greece. The only reason why anyone today knows about the Orphic mystery cults is because there is disparate documentation from different people who were invited to observe the goings on by the cultists and wrote down what they saw and heard, and an Orphic cult for a short time gained mainstream popularity.

[@Kaymazo]

To ancient greece being a lot bigger than you thought, it didn't just hit the boot, it arguably also extended to the island of Sicily (I.e. the rock that the boot kicks) The southern province of Italy used to be called "Magna Graecia" i.e. "Greater Greece" by the Romans because of that. As for the part of Anatolia not going far inland, I think the main reason for that is that there is a lot of mountains not too far into the lands, before getting to the relatively secluded highlands in the center.

[@Rainears129]

@7:55 Alexander the ____ is a running gag on the channel that stems from Blue's video on the guy, where he has a little aside that "the Great" is a terrible epithet and hates it. Since then, he's been given other epithets whenever he pops up. @12:56 Syllabic, where every character represents a syllable. Think the Japanese kana system. @56:53 Red's degree/major was mathematics, not myths. Now you understand why we kept recommending these videos to you. She has more like this (if it's just a god or a few other figure's name, they're like this). Enjoy.

[@cyberdrive861]

In the game Hades where you play as Zagreus there is a series of events where you make up a bunch of stuff about yourself and gaslight Orpheus at the request of Dionysus and that is the in universe explanation for his inconsistant origins

[@geonunes10]

People complain about Hades being Persephone's uncle and thats gross but forget Zeus had children with both his sisters and his daughter with one of those sisters while poseidon had a child/children with either his sister or his mother depending on the version of the myth, and if we combine mythology to achieve maximum ickyness married the daughter product of thst affair. Not forgetting poseidon had a child with his grandmother

[@artofthepossible7329]

@AmericanBrit9834 Poseidon and Gaia (water god and earth goddess, the symbolism writes itself) banged and produced Antaeus, who appears as a road block in Heracles' 11th Labor.

[@KebaRPG]

You forgot to mention all the Great Grand-Daughter and Grand Nieces that Zeus pursued... Hence the Joke that Zeus will have relations with nearly any female he sees... Especially since nearly every "King/Hero" claimed in some way descendance form Zeus or Poseidon or Both at some point in their Ancestry.

[@geonunes10]

@@KebaRPG I was focusing on direct, immediate family. Their great great great... Granddaughter just feels too separate to count. Nobody mentions Dionysus and Ariadne and they're second cousins

[@therubberducktube]

For the origin of Hades: Red has naturally made a video on Hades which goes into that.

[@cerberus0225]

Ahh, I love the time period involved here. To answer some of your questions: The Greeks (or Hellenes) had a self-conscious idea that, while they may be Spartans or Athenians or Thessalians or etc, they were still all Greek. The standard for who was Greek and who wasn't varied over the years, as did the exact terminology used to refer collectively for themselves, but in general the markers of a shared language, shared culture, shared rituals and religion, and a notion that all Greeks were descended from the same ancestral stock was the justification. They certainly didn't always get along, but they did have certain festivals that were restricted only to Greeks, and there's a noteworthy example in how this practice would shift (or was forced to shift) when the Macedonians, in exchange for helping the Greeks fight off the Persians, demanded to essentially be recognized as being Greek by being allowed to participate in the Olympic games. You seemed a little confused by the mention of Linear B being a syllabic script. I think you might've misheard Red and thought she said Slavic? A syllabic script is just a writing system where each syllable has a dedicated character, in this case a consonant-vowel pair. Its also really odd that the Mycenaean Greek language used this script because a syllabic script works really poorly for writing Greek, even of that period- there's all sorts of times where you have to use a final consonant and just know that the vowel part of that symbol is silent for that word, for example, as well as consonant clusters that get written with a similar silent vowel between them, that we really only know about because we know what Classical Greek more-or-less sounded like, as well as a decent idea of Proto-Indo-European, and we can roughly figure out what Greek should've sounded like for the Mycenaean period. So why did they use Linear B? Simple, they adopted it from the Linear A writing system that the Minoans used, which we unfortunately still haven't been able to translate. That's an entire fascinating rabbit hole I won't go into. Anyway yeah Dionysus is a satyr and probably connected to Pan and *definitely* ties into why we depict Satan as a satyr half the time. His frenzied followers would go get high off their ass on wine laced with god-knows-what and then literally tear someone limb from limb and eat their raw flesh as part of their ritualistic animalistic state. Talk about a party!

[@AnnaPaulsonDramaChickReviews]

I think some of the Pastafarian churches have beer fountains, but I’m not sure. I know a beer volcano is in their version of heaven

[@Xalerdane]

47:26 Greek Theatre was invented as a replacement for the ‘taking an animal or person and ripping it apart’ aspect of Dionysus worship. The word ‘tragedy’ comes from the Ancient Greek _tragōidía_ which literally meant ‘goat-song’, both as a reference to the satyrs frequently serving as the chorus in the plays, and because goats had been a very common selection for the whole dismemberment thing.

[@thomasdahlberg5920]

The whole thing with Dionysus being reborn is partly why many think that he's somehow related to Zagreus, the god of blood and rebirth.

[@TheScorpion0081]

It weird that there seems to be a popular connection between blood and wine in religion and fiction. There's the Catholic connection and vampirism connection that I know of.

[@robertduggan4617]

I mean if you look into it zagrius, Dionysus, and pan could be the same entity. zagrius taking the underworld connection, dionysus the wine,and pan being the more animalistic. if that is true that means all three forms of Dionysus tormented King Midas( Dionysus gave him his Golden Touch, pan turned them into a donkey, and then when he got to the underworld he ended up on the court of Souls to decide the place where the dead would spend their afterlife.)

[@DragoSonicMile]

Here's a joke about Zeus: Lightning doesn't strike twice... except when it does.

[@quixoticraven4242]

The “Alexander the Alright” joke started with Blue years ago and they’ve both done it ever since. Also, Red has done deep dives on Aphrodite, Hermes, Hades and Persephone, Loki and a Halloween special on werewolves. Have fun! Oh and you might want to check out the Detailed Diatribe about TTRPGs that aren’t D&D (and why they slap) starring Red’s sister Magenta first when you finally get around to those, since you like D&D. Also, I don’t think you mentioned it but just so you know, people have asked but Red’s never doing a video on Hestia. She’s said there’s just not enough material for even a short one, sadly. Hestia was probably one of those things everyone knew so why write it down.

[@gamingdemigodxiii5630]

My personal favorite was “Alexander the Macedonian Twink.”

[@DontObliteratetheCommenter]

6:13. If the future is bright It doesn't shine with that "end of the tunnel" light More like a deer in the headlights Sudden red lights Or "you're dead" lights As the anglerfish bite Cut from the song Passing Through

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

Fun d&d tip, Sparagmos is a nice, one word, command one could issue to someone, whilst pointing at their ally.

[@Ellievsgod]

I'm sure you got plenty lined up to watch, but some of my specific favorites of red's videos for going deep not only into the mythology and stories of gods, but how the gods developed and changed with the cultures that worshipped them are Persephone, Aphrodite, and especially Loki, which is my personal favorite miscellaneous myths videos. All worth checking out, especially if you feel similarly confident about knowing those gods stories as with Dionysus. They all have a lot more to them than you'd think.

[@mythicalgirl2005]

Good news, Red has an entire video like this on Hades and Persephone!

[@Shadow1Yaz]

I remember being approached by Dionysus and understanding that we’re I to start worshiping the Greek Pantheon, he and Aphrodite would be my patrons.

[@jannegrey]

"Syllabic script" no "Slavic" - at least I don't think so.

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

Yeah, apparently Poseidon in pre-greek as i think of it may very well have encompassed both hades and his own domains more or less, with “the river styx” actually being an under the ocean river/current, and also explaining some of the very old ocean burials of theirs involving burning ships, with those of particular note being burnt with holy symbols made from stones that cast green and blue fire…

[@kamiwolfzero9385]

@Airier I highly recommend you either playthrough the videogame 'Hades' at some point or react to all the story and interactions. From a story and writing aspect it's great but layering the mythology on top makes it excellent.

[@geonunes10]

KZbin, I'm not drinking alcohol, I'm praying to Dionysus.

[@fairycat23]

Red's degree is actually in Math. Blue is the Classics major.

[@abyssalblack]

5:22 the same goes for "stranger in a Strange land". Reds done an analysis/summary of it.

[@HannahBanina]

“It’s time for _‘Deep Thoughts with Heinlein…’”_

[@DDlambchop43]

oh, that is gonna be a riot.

[@hina-chan1721]

Them trying to outlaw the wine cult is just the prohibition prototype. 😂

[@anzaca1]

44:17 Historia Civilis has a very good video about the Bronze Age Collapse.

[@KKLaurelye]

blue actually has a video on why greece is greece. it's part of a kind of mini-compilation meme-style video, called history hijinks or something like that

[@singletona082]

I would like to recommend the channel Living Mythology as it is a collaborative between Baldermort and his daughter Lightbringer. They have told myths concerning the greek creation story, the titanomachy, and a few related myths, and recently has concluded the typhon myth. They do a wonderful job telling these stories. I do not know what is next but i am looking forward to it. Speaking of Baldermort many of hisstories include lore before and after the explainatory dump of the central 'thing.' My favorites are 'mutants' 'chapter foundings' and he's done several compilations of stories from his lore videos. Also you are one of the few react channels i subscribe to and basically found you because Black Pants Legion.

[@krinkrin5982]

He was just going around drunk, and then stumbled back home. She didn't mention quite a few things, like his association with Satyrs, though that was visually implied.

[@haraken3119]

Now you have to go and see the Loki's history that Red did ("Miscellaneous Myths: Loki"), it is on par with Dionysus's transformation, if not even better.

[@xenodragon6564]

we feel old @Airier said im going to FING 39 ON X-MAS. i feel even OLDER

[@anzaca1]

12:07 They all spoke the same language, so everyone else referred to them collectively as "Greeks".

[@supremefankai5480]

God, I love the video game Hades, and Son of Hades and Persephone Zagreus getting into shenanigans with Dionysus on occasion. The game actually references the strange mythological connection they have of Zagreus being an aspect of Dionysus by having the duo setting it up as a prank, because young dude gods having fun bro. That game has all the cool lore and it makes me see it as the best version of the old myths.

[@samrevlej9331]

11:50 The topic of "what differentiates Greeks and barbarians (i.e. foreigners)" is actually the subject of a lot of ancient Greek philosophical debate. Basically it boiled down to a shared language and a shared pantheon, even though religion wasn't exactly exclusionary like the Abrahamic faiths. "Barbarians" were people who didn't speak Greek and whom the Greeks thought said "bar-bar". Later, ideas about inherent Greek cultural superiority festered with some nasty conclusions about why these "simple-minded but physically strong" barbarians could be enslaved by the "high IQ" Greeks (thanks Aristotle).

[@kacperkonieczny7333]

IIRC word "barbarian" originated from the word for people with trousers

[@gokbay3057]

Yeah, iirc there was, for example, debate on whether Macedonia actually counted as Greek or not.

[@samrevlej9331]

@@kacperkonieczny7333 Never heard of that. The French word for old trousers is "braies" but I'm not sure there's any connection.

[@shelbybayer200]

"Time is a bitch and I feel old suddenly" SAME

[@khylerbane4523]

•Dionysus in Mycenaean era: “Greetings, here’s a drink. No need to ask for more.” •Dionysus in Classical Greece: “Let the madness begin.” >:) •Dionysus/Zagreus version: -Dionysus: *Drinks entire bottle of booze* “More wine, more women, more men, more music!” -Zagreus: *screaming in Dionysus’ head* “GIVE ME BACK MY BODY, YOU WORTHLESS PATHETIC DRUNKARD!” • Dionysus in Hellenistic Greece: “Hi, I’m Dionysus, the God of Wine. And Welcome to Jackass!” Also several Titans are still active during the reign of Olympus. Rhea, Thanatos, Helios, Selene, and Prometheus, among many others are still very active. Mostly due to them *not* siding with Kronos in the war between Olympus and the Titans. Heck even some Primordials like Uranus, Gia, Tartarus, Nyx, Erebus, and Kratos are still around. Additionally, in Greek mythology, while there are many gods, goddesses, and demigods, most demigods don’t ascend to Godhood and there are 12, technically 15, major Gods of Olympus. Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Apollo, Artemis, Athena, Ares, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, and Dionysus or Hestia; depending on the version your reading, are the big 12. The other 3 are Hestia or Dionysus… depending on the version… Persephone, and Hades.

[@GoliathPyroson]

Rhea is Zeus’ mom, of course she’s not imprisoned

[@esbeng.s.a9761]

Fun fact Red has a major in math and Blue almost had a major in business

[@EldritchRacoon]

This becoming a growing misunderstanding, and Red brings it up I believe in the Hades and Persephone vid(I think) The word cult is different from how we use it in the context of religion. A cult is just a group/house of worship, not a secret small group. A cult is a subsection of religion, with focus on one particular deity or idea of a whole. Size of the group doesn’t matter, it’s just who their focus is. A secret cult is just the same but they just don’t share the specifics, in this case probably cause they were all to drunk. So technically, something like Catholicism is a cult of Christianity.

[@mikukurisaki3413]

"I got to the 'this is bad writing stuff.'" So you didn't get past the third sentence either?

[@mythicalgirl2005]

The titanesses got to stick around because they stayed neutral during the Titanomachy.

[@XShadOBabeX]

12:50 I’m pretty sure she said “syllabic script” not “Slavic script”.

[@leshyaedawnfire]

"That's one hell of a C-section..." *wheeze* Dude, that was the perfect joke!

[@lucasjuliard4929]

It's kinda like Dionysus was such an old and powerful god that the Olympians kinda brought him with them to avoid conflict xD

[@elizabethlee2136]

that is like most polytheistic syncretism.

[@FelbloodStreaming]

10:28 Honestly, this is all of Greek Mythology. Every Hellenic Canon is a doomed attempt to cobble together a government approved, cohesive religion out of millennia of poetic license, competing propaganda and game of telephone.

[@raw6668]

Do you think this is edging? I have something to tell you. Aphrodite was the Spartan's favorite war goddess and keeps being recharacterized back into her role as a war goddess with the last group to do so being the Romans. Also, Persephone was the original God of the Dead, and the story of her marriage to Hades was more or less her return as Queen of the Underworld that Hades took over.

[@CGomm-le7gv]

First time i ever heard of the bacchanal killing Orpheus was in neil gaiman's sandman,in xena the bacchanal was vampires, Internet historian mythological video talk about Orpheus and Midas

[@galaxa13]

Given how we're dealing with time frames in the BCs I don't think Dionysus cults had anything to do with Christianity. You know, since BC is Before Christ.

[@RenaDeles]

Blue finally gets into it in one of his rome history videos, but they both have running jokes about Alexander the great being a horrible epitap with everything you could pick with that guy why would you go with the great and honestly I agree with them at this point 😂

[@Krokmaniak]

Gaia was personiphication of Earth. Rhea was mother of Zeus, and other original gods. There are also another Titans around like Prometheus, Atlas etc

[@Phoenix_254]

Historia Civilis has a fantastic video on what could’ve caused the Bronze Age Collapse, my best TLDR is the political and environmental scene may have gone sideways and the systems in place were unable to adapt. But that’s unfortunately just speculation as we’re blessed with some letters from the time, but they’re not exactly writing the backstory to people who already know.

[@Al-ir6vb]

*slaps shoulder excitedly* He's doing it! He's doing it!

[@beomcheolkim8543]

Mad theory: Zeus devours Metis (Titan of Wisdom and mother of Athena) absorbing her wisdom and essence. This means that Zeus and Metis are, technically, one and the same. Metis is destined to bear a son who would one day overthrow his father. Zeus, as the King of the Gods, is essentially the enbodiment of the old order and status quo. Zeus takes fetus Dionysus into himself after the whole mess with Semele, and gives birth to him several months later, meaning Zeus/Metis gave birth to a son. Dionysus, whose followers are the marginalized members of Greek society, was apparently supposed to be Zeus's heir, considering the whole Hera killing him storyline. Dionysus then becomes, rather unofficially, the patron God of the Hellenic Elites during the time of Alexander The Swell and afterwards. Essentially, supplanting the old status quo. Wild Party God overthrows Sky God King Prophecy fulfilled. Prophecy successfully dodged, my ass Zeus...

[@bittgrundy]

If you’re interested in learning about the bronze age collapse, might I suggest looking at extra history they have a very good collection of historical points that they cover like one. I never knew about was the south see bubble.

[@mollywantshugs5944]

Hades has been hypothesized to have started out as an aspect of Poseidon and split off into his own god later. Not a sure thing but it would explain how Poseidon became significantly less associated with the underworld around the same time Hades starts getting mentioned

[@j-1391]

37:58 if you are talking about the God of Lili‘s Familia, then that wasn’t Dionysos. That was Soma. Dionysos exists in Danmachi, however he appears pretty much only in the Sword Oratoria Side story

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

So, not all titians were fully like chopped up or bound under mountains or what have you, some, albeit rare, and usually still suffering lighter “punishments” (some were innocent like calypso) and were in contact with the gods after everything happened. But, these were usually rather tenuous and stressed relations, usually.

[@kurotsuchiiwa3627]

am i the only one who thinks the version of dionysus at 57:20 is like hella cute. i mean i get he was essentially always meant to be seen as androgynous and cute. but that specific image for some reason is really cute.

[@danny5551000]

finally... hes getting these ones. just wait till Aphrodite

[@Skelli2]

Rhea is Zeus's mom. You were thinking of Gaia who is his grandma

[@Airier]

Ah. That makes sense. 😯👍

[@amjthe_paleosquare9399]

I've only checked some OSP reactions plus all Underverse ones. Huh, he keeps going to "mycenean" pronounced with the soft C, instead of the strong "celtic" letter C. Looking forward to his reaction to Hades and Persephone :3

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

It was… not just alcohol he ruled over… the various leaves and flowers in the backgrounds in this have meanings… lets just say that if woodstock had a ruling deity… he would have laughed at how little they pedaled

[@kacperkonieczny7333]

22:24 Anime was inspired by American animation so it is in someway true 🤣

[@mrmr3657]

I believe there’s an Aphrodite, one that goes into a similar style of breakdown that I recommend you watch next

[@Kairukurumi]

What says god of wine more than chaotic debauchery? Also YES my favorite Greek god!

[@FelbloodStreaming]

12:00 The Greeks weren't really unified under a common government prior to the Macedonian Empire and the Athenian League, but there was a common cultural identity. Each city or island had it's own king and myth and heroes, but the language and the trade networks bound the people together with a sense of being a greater whole that reached beyond legal borders or theological details. This flies in the face of our modern ethno-nationalist understanding of country and identity, in a way that feels kind of trippy.

[@noahweathers4408]

07:12 Yes, there are accounts that a number of the female Titans were more peaceable (not to mention SIGNIFICANTLY SMARTER) than their male relatives and elected to avoid war with the Olympians, thus being spared the punishment Kronos and his allies received. It’s also stated that Rhea specifically was made Kronos’ wife against her will and any happiness in their marriage DEFINITELY went out the window when Kronos ATE HER KIDS. Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades,Poseidon and a rock Kronos assumed was Zeus. Fortunately, as Gods they survived without injury and eventually escaped with Zeus’ help. UNFORTUNATELY, their immortal nature meant they probably remember THE WHOLE TIME they were stuck in their dad’s belly and they did spend SEVERAL YEARS IN THERE.

[@PIMKAMINA2]

12:50 syllabic, not slavic, silly, meaning it was based on syllables and not individual consonants and vowels.

[@leshyaedawnfire]

Rhea is the mother of the first set of Olympian Gods, which consists of Hestia, Hades, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, and Zeus, (not necessarily in that order, but Hestia and Zeus are the oldest and youngest respectively) and was one of the Titan's who sided with them during the war against Kronos because she hated that he kept eating their children. So it would make some sense for her to raise Dionysus as she's his grandmother.

[@brendanb2918]

If you are interested in learning more about the Bronze Age collapse, Extra History has a series on it. I think Blue may have also made a video on the topic.

[@vengefuljester2090]

The way Red lays out Dionysus' history and circles of worship. Beginning as a cult, the wine, rebirth and resurrection, the consuming of his flesh, born of a mortal mother, relation to the head god, born again by Zeus and ascent to godhood, the bacchanal. You brought up Christianity. Nail on the head. The similarity to Christianity's Jesus is uncanny. Even their names Dionysus to Jesus. Literally just chop off the first four letters. Especially when you take into account old languages pronouncing Y as a J sound

[@larabraticic5024]

watch Persephone and Hades one. it's soo good also, Gaia is the Earth Goddess, not Rhea

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

Huh, this iteration of Dionysus sounds awfully similar to Pan who is a Satyr that is associated with chaos, partying, and alcohol. That’s going to be confusing. They must be from a different pantheon of gods I guess.

[@KebaRPG]

Lots of Early Mangaka Professional Training Studios were sponsored by Disney Studios and Fleischer Brothers Studios in the Late 1940's. So what is now thought of "Japanese Manga/Anime Style" was originally based on the Mid 1900's American Cartoon Art Style.

[@makinapacal]

I should point out that the classical Greeks did sometimes portray Dionysus has older and bearded in both sculptures and vase paintings.

[@Mercure250]

12:44 Not Slavic, syllabic. One symbol per syllable, roughly. Depending on the language, syllabic writing systems can vary in the specific way they work, so it's often more complex than just "one symbol per syllable". A bit like how the linguistic definition of "alphabet" is "one symbol per sound" (in other words, logographic systems like Chinese, and syllabaries like Linear B that she's talking about, aren't alphabets by definition, at least in linguistics), but when you look at a language like English, which uses an alphabet (the Latin alphabet), that definition is, at best, extremely rough. Also, extra info : The Slavic and Hellenic (Greek) languages are related, they're part of the wider Indo-European family, which also includes Italic languages (i.e. Latin and its relatives), Celtic languages, Germanic languages, Albanian, Armenian (these two are their own branch of the family), Baltic (mainly Lithuanian and Latvian, part of a common branch with Slavic), and Indo-Iranian, which is itself divided into Indic (Sanskrit, Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Nepali, and a lot of other languages of the Indian subcontinent) and Iranian (Farsi, Kurdish, Pashto, etc.). There are also two extinct branches : Tocharian (spoken in what is now Western China) and Anatolian (the oldest recorded branch we have, with languages such as Hittite, which was written in cuneiform). If you want, there are videos on the topic, though not by OSP. Important note : Writing systems and languages are two different things. A writing system is just a way to, well, write down a language. Plenty of languages use the Latin alphabet, even though they have nothing to do with each other. Vietnamese, for example, is completely unrelated to any Indo-European languages, but it uses the Latin alphabet. Meanwhile, Indo-European languages use a variety of different writing systems : Latin alphabet, Cyrillic alphabet, Greek alphabet (for Greek specifically), Devanagari alphasyllabary in India, etc. I think you got confused by what Red is saying here btw (my clue for that is at 14:06, you think this is Phoenician, but it's Mycenean Greek written in Linear B). She was saying that Mycenean Greek is an older form of Greek*, but it wasn't written with the Greek alphabet, it was written in Linear B. The Greek alphabet that we all know and love started being a thing afterwards, and it was an adaptation of the Phoenician alphabet. Phoenician was not at all related to Greek, it was a Semitic language, part of the wider Afro-Asiatic family (which includes the other members of the Semitic branch, like Hebrew and what would become Arabic, but also languages like Ancient Egyptian/Coptic and Berber languages, among others), which is a family that, as far as we know, is unrelated to the Indo-European family that Greek is a part of. The Phoenician culture is basically unrelated to Greek culture at this point in time. The only significant cultural connection Phoenician had with Greek, was that the Phoenicians gave the Greeks a new writing system, which the Greek adapted for their own language. That's all. It can be hard to wrap your mind around this concept because we often think that writing IS the language. But in linguistics, they are considered two very different things. A way to make it more simple and easy to understand : A language is spoken first, written second. Speech and writing are distinct things. When we say "language" in linguistics, we basically mean "speech". Though of course, we are generally also interested in how a language is written, but to linguists, writing is basically just a tool used to transform speech into a visual and more permanent form. A language like English could in fact swap their writing system if people really wanted to (And they did! Old English was first written in Runic script, before they swapped to the Latin alphabet; but the language didn't change in the process, people back then spoke the same before and after the change; only writing was impacted). But for a lot of people outside of linguistics, they think it's the other way around, they think writing comes first and IS the language, and that's what can cause confusion when a layman comes into contact with linguistics stuff (especially historical linguistics). So in other words, you can talk about the history of languages and about the history of writing systems completely separately. The Phoenician alphabet, Greek alphabet, Latin alphabet, and Cyrillic alphabet, are all in one branch of a whole family of writing systems, which ultimately comes from Egyptian hieroglyphics. Linear B was not part of that family; it had its own history (which, admittedly, I'm not super familiar with, I think it might have come from Cretan hieroglyphics or something). Yet, Mycenean Greek, which used Linear B, and Classical Greek, which used the Greek alphabet, are definitely related, despite their writing systems not being related at all. And as I said, the Greek alphabet and the Phoenician alphabet are related, but the languages, Greek and Phoenician, aren't. * : By "older form", we don't mean "ancestor"; Mycenean Greek was in fact a different branch of the Hellenic languages from the branches that dominated Classical Greek. A different dialect from the dialects that would evolve to become the different varieties of Greek we see in the Classical period, basically. Mycenean was just the only dialect being written at the time, and then it went extinct, and the other dialects replaced it, and those other dialects started using an adaptation of the Phoenician alphabet, now known as the Greek alphabet, instead of the ol' Linear B that the Myceneans were previously using.

[@nerdiboy5128]

29:45: yeah that's most people's reaction, I think! 😅 But if you've ever heard the story of Orpheus and Eurydice and how it ends with the maenads (Dionysus' followers, who are eternally drunk and maniacal, to the point of being 'stream of consciousness' personified, all rambling and mad, not making a lick of sense, and occasionally spouting vague prophecies and riddles in between their screaming) tearing him apart and possibly cannibalizing him, leaving only his head, you'd probably know that. Of course, I imagine that when re-telling the story for a younger audience, they replace it with "And he died broken-hearted and alone." Still depressing, but nowhere NEAR as graphic as the _original_ ending!