Commodore 64 Drive on PC

[@TechTangents]

The first 500 people who click the link will get 2 free months of Skillshare Premium: skl.sh/akbkuku4

[@thenoblerot]

It's remarkable how well the commodore drives have aged. Having their own computer and os built into the drive seemed to me to be overkill at the time, but in the long run it's meant that they're sooo much easier to interface with modern computers. And conversely, makes it easier to emulate drives to connect to vintage computers. Thanks for the awesome content! Love your channel

[@NicolasLebrun0]

Star Commander has a built in fastloader. You can activate it in Transfer options and set it to "warp" to use it, much faster ! From my experience it took 35 seconds to read or write an entire disk.

[@ZiggyTheHamster]

17:15 You forgot to format the destination disk

[@kelli217]

came here to say this

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Heh me too :-)

[@galier2]

It is even the first option in the copy dialog. Should give the hint.

[@SirGeldi]

He didn't read the dialog he was doing a video :)

[@meemee1357]

@@SirGeldi did a Duragua1

[@nrdesign1991]

I built the XU1541 adapter cable which runs on USB on Windows machines which makes file transfering, disk imaging, and also writing disk images (demos, games, etc) a whole lot easier, with the CBMXfer software. The XU1541 adapters have been superseded by other adapters, but still work really well. It uses an Atmega8 running V-USB in software, and plugs right into USB and a 1541.

[@pinrod1]

I like the sound effect you use on your channel logo screen 1:37, Reminds me of the Computer Chronicles....still love that show!

[@thedungeondelver]

I would love to see a virtual teamup video with you and Adrian Black on C= stuff! Regardless, this is a great vid. Thank you.

[@szahm1968]

The X-series Serial cables will read copy protected diskettes, but not write them back to physical media without errors. Also most copy-protection does not get copied which means the disk dump will not work when trying to load in the emulator. In order to copy protected disks, you'll need to use the parallel X series cables in conjunction with a nibble copier. This also requires adding a port that is attached to the ROM socket inside the drive. If I'm remembering correctly, it is possible to add the nibble copier executable in the options of Star Commander. I used the XA1541 cable from about 2010 to 2015 and then I learned of the ZoomFloppy from RETRO Innovations. I've been using that ever since. It has the advantage of working with modern PC's in Windows (including Windows 10) and uses a USB interface instead of the parallel port. If you are fortunate enough to have a 1571 drive you can do a nibble copy (with the right software) of the protected disks which you can use to backup your collection. The 1571 does not require the port modification that the parallel cable option does. It will also allow you to write the nibble copy back to a physical disk. I highly recommend .G64 formatted files for this type of backup. The nibble copy will not work on any of the various 1541 models, as far as I've found, without the parallel cable and port mod. I am in no way advocating for piracy. I'm simply pointing out a way to reliably back up your collection for posterity.

[@notarealchannel2889]

I would totally watch the shit out of Shelby's perpetual commodore nightmare channel

[@AlexElectronics]

When are we going to get another video about the minicomputer you bought a few months ago?

[@TechTangents]

There is something in the works for next update on that. I hit a roadblock and need to order some parts. But I am starting to work on it though!

[@AlexElectronics]

@@TechTangents Great! I'm very excited for those repair videos!

[@Stoney3K]

@@TechTangents Awesome! Can't wait to see that thing spin up and check out what kind of OS is on it.

[@peshozmiata]

I made an XM1541 cable years ago - it's very useful, and the main way i get stuff onto a C64. The XM is simpler as it's just a bunch of schottky diodes inside the parallel connector and requires no modifications of the 1541. I read that it doesn't work with all motherboards, but it hasn't had any issues with what i have (VIA Apollo chipset).

[@666lordofdestruction]

2:25 A cat! What’s your cats name, Shelby?

[@richardkelsch3640]

Looks like you forgot to format the disk. Even imaging on a Commodore still needs formatting so the drive knows where the tracks are.

[@videooblivion]

I remember building an X1541 cable back in the day. Once you go ZoomFloppy, you never go back to those parallel cables.

[@chrisakaschulbus4903]

having an animal appear in the sponsored segment is cool and all, but it shouldn't feel forced. the cat wasn't really up for it but still sooo cute :D

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

Awesome idea to put a 1541 in the PC. #ideas

[@timmooney7528]

Add to it the ability to record cartridge roms and capture cassette files and you'll have an awesome media capture station

[@davidtillwach5542]

That guy looks like Wayne Campbell from Wayne's world .Party on wayne

[@Gadgetman1989]

You should reach out to Adrian's Digital Basement, he fixed both his Commodore Pets

[@Tigermoto]

I bet David from the 8-bit guy would love this!

[@borismatesin]

I swear I never thought of using a mini screwdriver as a test point for a DIN connector. That's ingenious

[@technischemaschinenfabrik5882]

The whole 2000's i used Star Commander with XE cable. Then i changed it to the XM cable. Since 2013 i use the Ultimate 2. No need to use the Star Commander now.

[@k_kon131]

I use the XUM1541 adapter, for me it is even easier, because it is for Windows 8 and above

[@FilippRoos]

Also works nicely on Linux! :) It's arguably even easier to build with a Pro Micro for less than 5€.

[@MisterMsk]

Zoomfloppy with a 1571. Great for d64s and g64s.

[@RacerX-]

+1 to ZF + 1571. With what MisterMsk recommends, you will be able to use NIBTools to image your copy protected disks and then convert the nib files to G64. The old X cables are cool but extremely slow. With NIBTools and a ZF you can image a disk in seconds. And write just about any image back. If you get the ZoomFloppy with IEEE connector you can plug it in to the PET drive and image and create disks for that.

[@synthknobs]

I haven’t seen norton commander in 25 years

[@Stoney3K]

Maybe a sidetrack if you want to internally install a Commodore drive: Get a 1571 because it uses pretty much a regular PC floppy drive so it would be easier to physically mount internally. Also, for the European viewers: You can replace the 2N2222 with a BC547 or equivalent, this adapter is just basically bit-banging the IEC serial bus over the parallel port.

[@jason50146]

I was using a Pi1541 w/C=64 to copy D64 disk images to a 1541 floppy. I found I had more success when I formatted the disk first. Otherwise, I would often get write errors. I would expect the copy program to just overwrite everything (as with any disk to disk copy), but it was happier when the disk had already been formatted. Just passing along since your operation failed in the same way mine did. A side note, some publishers used tracks 36-40 as part of their copy protection. The standard 1541 format uses tracks 1-35. This is why you see an "Extended Tracks" option on many disk copy programs from the period. The 1541 can be forced to search for code on these high tracks. If the code isn't there...no boot.

[@marcodemont5871]

You could extend the XA cable to an XAP cable, then your image will be created / read in seconds instead of minutes! :) Brings back a lot of fun memories.

[@mortarmopp3919]

I used a variant of Norton Cmdr. called Midnight Cmdr., which works exactly the same as Star Cmdr. This was one of my favorite DOS apps. Ah, the good old days.

[@androskris]

I did something similar on my C64 a few weeks ago using a pi1541 and a 1541 drive. I was able to make empty .d64 files in the dirmaster program, put them on the pi1541, then daisy chained the pi1541 and 1541 together to the C64. Then I could copy my old floppies to .d64 files using fast hackem loaded from the pi1541. I had the same issue with copy protected games though, even trying to copy them to .g64 files with this method it didn't allow the copies to work in emulators, etc. A pi1541 is great, especially if you have a raspberry pi 3 already.

[@barbudoru]

Ctrl+R to refresh. Also, Insert to multi-select, but I presume you already knew that.

[@peterlamont647]

Here is a verrrrrry little known fact. The 8250 and 8050 drive are compatible until you fill more than half the disk space. The 8250 only writes one side at a time. So theoretically you can use both interchangeably. I read this in transactor magazine a while back. As far as transferring software? Well...that is easy as pie. Use the datasette. The datasette is virtually identical from the pet all the way to the c128. I used a x1541 style cable and star commander right up until the 1541 ultimate II. I bought that and the datasette adapter for this very purpose. I wrote up a paper on building your own datasette adapter for this hardware. It is listed in the forums for the 1541 ultimate. Ironically, the tape capture feature doesnt work in several major revisions of the firmware so use either 2.6 or 3.4. The intervening versions are broken.

[@peterlamont647]

Use a disk doctor to find the "bad track marker"(group code) and change the pointer in the bam to the correct track and sector. This is some old time cracking knowledge you wont find elsewhere. Those euros never publish their methods...

[@larrywilliams8010]

If Star Commander is command-compatible with Norton or Midnight (Linux) Commander, refreshing the directory listing is Ctrl+R

[@branchonequal]

It *is* Ctrl+R, you can see it at 16:52. ;)

[@homestar92]

Star Commander with an XA1541 cable is pretty nice. The only interface like this for old computers that I think is better is ADTPro for the Apple II, solely because you can use it on a modern computer. And if you have any model Apple II other than the IIc, you can use it, albeit very slowly, through the cassette port without building any kind of adapter using just a male-to-male headphone cable.

[@kylemcisaac]

I'd watch Shelby's Perpetual Commodore Nightmare any day!

[@johnboy_245]

Hello and welcome to Shelby's computer adventure.

[@barrettgpeck]

Thanks for the Skillshare, also that hat is awesome. I'd pay a kings ransom for one of those Compaq hats

[@luha628]

Hey that 1541-II looks familiar :)

[@dvuemedia]

I made a similar cable to interface the Commodore drive to my Amiga 1200.

[@dannyarnold9823]

I use my 1541 with my home made cable and the VICE emulator directly from within vice, You can load protected games that use the 6502 in the drive.

[@JarrodCoombes]

Star Commander you say. I have to download that and try it out. I was/am a heavy user of Norton Commander and Midnight Commander on modern machines (especially Linux CLI only setups). This was a pretty cool and interesting video and that's from someone who has no interest in Commodore stuff :D

[@claudioquintanilla1471]

some advice for you, XE1541 and XM1541 cables are much easier to build because they just use diodes that you put into the same LPT connector, now for star commander transfer options select warp transfer mode, press button recalibrate so delay value will change adapting for your machine speed (better stability over communication), another config you must change is in Drive option select speed execution command for Warp (you will get a huge speed improvement coping disks!!! it will take just 30 seconds tops!!). and finally, for reloading disk drive content you can use a shortcut ctrl+R it's faster...

[@herdware]

I'm pretty sure you need to check "format disk" in the disk copier when you use a disk that is not previously 1541 formatted. There is also ZoomFloppy today which is USB. ZoomFloppy can also connect to PET drives.

[@TechTangents]

That would make a ton of sense!

[@Okurka.]

ZoomFloppy is an overpriced XUM1541. A $3 Arduino Pro Micro can do the same thing.

[@dalsothx]

The Cat would make good Click Bait. I'm just saying :)

[@Nate1994a]

The cat would make good videos and possibly asmr.

[@docsynth4387]

He isn't a clickbait channel and he isn't a asmr channel.

[@F3553ify]

It is normal for the head knocking (unless your diskdrive doses not have a broken track zero sensor, if your model has one). Commandore formated disk has metadata on them to tell the diskdrive head witch track it is on. So when a blank disk is formatted then head knocking is needed to get to track zero (unless you have a broken track zero sensor). So the metadata can be written. Read/writes to the disk after format should not produce any head knocking. Check out this repair: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5infJ9naryMq8U (More info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_1541#Media & en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_availability_map)

[@donkeythemonkey7648]

You should get in touch with the 8-bit guy. Im sure he could help you easily with all your commodore problems.

[@mutetus]

I don't remember which one of the cables I built, definitely not XA, but you can use the cable the other way around as well by connecting the serial cable to the C64 instead. That is, setup the pc as a disk drive and just insert d64 images to the virtual drive on pc or mount a folder with tons of programs.

[@Aziz-qt6iy]

02:28 this make me more focused on your cat I want to hug your cat🤗

[@dagrubar]

Using SC and a XA1541 works very well in "turbo" mode for me. "Warp" gives me some trouble, but "turbo" is also speeding it up quiet a bit. Some of my PCs won't work with XA1541, but then they work with XM1541. SC seems to fiddly with parallel ports.

[@Collectorcast]

Anticipating the Tandy video. I've recently picked up a Model III and have no disks to go with it or to test with.

[@wr3cked0ne]

I'd wager a guess that the drive is under serial because the 1541 is a serial interface drive. So while you're connecting it to the parallel port. You're actually using only 1 out of the 8 parallel lines to transfer data, which means you're using the parallel port as a serial port.

[@howard81]

The head knocking is usual for Commodore drives, but I think the copy didn’t work in this instance as the disk isn’t formatted. I’ve had one of these cables made for ages and haven’t used it yet, but you can get a USB version which you can use with modern software. If you have a network card on your 64 then you can use WarpCopy64 which writes disk images over the network directly to your 1541 whilst still attached to your 64 in a matter of seconds!

[@supra107]

If you're not using an orthodox file manager in everyday work, like Total Commander/FAR Manager/Midnight Commander, then you're not a true techie. ;) Seriously, OFM's are the greatest file managers around, even to this day. And they were invented back in the 80's!

[@dannyarnold9823]

Midnight Commander is the first thing I install on a fresh Linux rollout. Flollowed by 'alias @=sudo'

[@Redspl]

mc was the first thing I installed on my linux box when I started going FOSS, and I'm still using it to this day. also, small protip: if you need to compare two files on linux, use mcdiff. Makes life so much easier, but I haven't seen it advertised inside the program itself.

[@Okurka.]

Make a XUM1541 using a $3 Arduino Pro Micro and you can create a disk image in 30 seconds on any USB capable PC.

[@asic_]

If I remember Vice correctly, a green drive status led is when you are not emulating a 1541 drive. Have a look at the emulation options...

[@DerTodKommtImmer]

i love your printer for some reason

[@TheAlphaWoomy]

This guy is trying to be Styxhexenhammer666 with the kitty placement!

[@MatroxMillennium]

I actually use a standard X1541 cable for my drives because I somehow have a couple of laptops with compatible parallel ports. Although I did order the parts to build the XA cable a while back and intend to 'upgrade' at some point so that I'm not locked to using those specific computers.

[@MatroxMillennium]

Actually this video inspired me to go ahead and get the parts out and hack the cable together. So now I am using the XA1541!

[@tonyrad8714]

always a great watch

[@norbelbert1988]

I wish you would have showed a transfer the other way around. That's the main reason I would use an adapter like this. I used a nullmodem cable to move everything I cared about when I switched from C64 to Amiga. - That way is old news to me. - But I sometimes feel a slight urge to see what I could do with my current dev tools and knowledge on a C64.

[@Radioaktivitaet]

I've actually made myself a X1541 cable and used it with a "no-name" 486 laptop. That was fun. I've put some SID songs from HVSC on it along with SIDPlay so I could listen to some SIDs on the real hardware. Unfortunately I can't find the cable anymore and the 486 laptop is broken.. :(

[@jjjacer]

I remember doing this back in the early 2000's, although i was lazy on making the cable, i just had stripped wires i shoved into the connectors of the LPT port and the drive, worked but was flaky.

[@joshpayne4015]

I think you need to check the option 'format disk' since out of the box, new diskettes aren't compatible with Commodore's format, so it can't find the sector to write to, hence your error. Try checking 'format disk' option when you write a .d64 file to the 1541...

[@darkman237]

any way to break through the protection, assuming you own the game?

[@3dtexan890]

I prefer the Zoom Floppy. Works great for me.

[@The_Keeper]

Side note: For a great modern version of Star Commander/Norton Commander you should try Total Commander. I've used it for a long time, and I will never go back to Windows Explorer. Ever.

[@claudioquintanilla1471]

star commander has special compatibility with a commodore disk drive that I suppose total commander has not, and this kind of interface doesn't work over multitasking operative systems, just DOS.

[@DaveGagliardi]

VERY interested in the trs-80 floppy drive use on a pc...

[@hermitxIII]

I thought his shirt said "homosoft" for awhile heh.

[@delajt]

llamasoft FTW @jeffminter

[@tarstarkusz]

Get a 1581 drive and you can write a commodore disk from ANY PC 3.5" floppy disk drive. I also have the XA cable, but NOTHING beats just using the 1581 and a pc drive, which is what I do. EDIT: I don't own a pet. But the Commodore drives don't really have a DOS and assuming it can use a 1541, it should be able to use a 1581

[@CandyGramForMongo_]

A parallel port is a serial port if you just use one bit.

[@MrKurtHaeusler]

I don't get how you can just plug a serial drive into a parallel port without some kind of UART. It looks like a lot of the magic is in the software though, wonder how difficult it would be to mount the drive on dos so it can be used with normal dos commands. I would have thought the PET drives would be easier to connect just because IEEE-488 is a parallel interface.

[@alritedave]

HEY OTTOMAN!!

[@leec2106]

I do think a lot of programs used sector on maybe track 36, try the copy of extended tracks. As for making the disk try format first. I think that is why you got the errors. Your disk may have been a PC formatted disk! Good luck, As for your pet I would guess the CIA chip if it has one. What I was seeing on the screen it would be the CIA chip on a C64. There was a capture cartridge that would bypass the copy protection. You pushed the button saved it Using the copy of the disk, no protection needed. I do not remember if you could save the capture to that disk or not.

[@1xWertzui]

No wonder the PC to 1541 transfer didn't work. You have to format the new disks before you can use it. Ooops! Also, there is some trick going on with that Platoon disk I think, because the original european tape release is a 4 part multiloader, so it's a pretty big game.

[@fuentescgabriel]

I think you should check the "Format Destination disk" when using a blank disk...

[@daw7563]

Would the same mod work with my 1570?

[@RisingRevengeance]

You forgot an o in the title there

[@TechTangents]

Fixed, thanks!

[@RisingRevengeance]

@@TechTangents np!

[@fuentescgabriel]

Why do you have only 3 SIMMs on the memory slots?. SIMMs need to be installed in pairs.

[@TechTangents]

That is a good question...I should sort that out. When I built this system that was all the EDO memory I had. I believe I have a lot more now.

[@Redspl]

My exact thought. I wonder if that's a special mobo that adresses the memory differently, or is one of the DIMMs just not used? Thinking about it, that's the first time I've seen a motherboard with EDO RAM even POST with odd number of sticks..

[@nickwallette6201]

Were they 72 pin? A 486 can use single (or odd numbers of) 72 pin SIMMs.

[@Redspl]

@@nickwallette6201 those were most definitely not 36 pin modules, but many motherboards still struggle with uneven numbers of 72pin ones. My HP Vectra 5/90C even states in the manual that only an even number of modules should be used.

[@AKATenn]

could you run a commodore 64 emulator on the dos machine and boot an actual floppy?

[@timmooney7528]

Would it be possible to emulate a cassette drive with an MP3 player or other form of audio input?

[@BuzzKirill3D]

Can anyone give me a really quick rundown of why he's doing this?

[@SuperGachet]

Can you connect the 1530 as well? The software said something about tape drives

[@confusedkemono]

Shelby's Tech Misadventures?

[@MrRobbiepee]

Back in the day, I made an X1541 cable, which as I recall (some 22 years later!) was a much simpler cable than that, it may even have just been just a couple of resisters or something. worked a treat. Now that you can create disk images from real disks, you might find Dirmaster useful. This is a Windows program for working with disk images which has lots of useful disk functions like copying individual .prg files from a disk image to the PC, copying files between images, reordering the contents of a disk image and so on. it can be found here - style64.org/dirmaster I have no connection to this software BTW, I just think it may be useful

[@evensgrey]

Well, you cantalk to that 8050/8250 drive from a PC equipped with a GPIB or IEEE-488 interface. The good news is that you can but those off the shelf (the interface is still commonly used on professional-level electronics instruments,l although it is giving way to ethernet and USB). The bad news is they cost over $600. The better news is that over on a channel called NatureAndTech a little over 4 years ago published a series on a DIY interface. Here's the playback code for the first in the series: U0UweU1PEiA

[@TechTangents]

I have some GPIB ISA cards but, as far as I know, there is no software to use them with a PC. I don't have the time to write something for it. If there were software out there I could do it that way though.

[@evensgrey]

@@TechTangents The protocol used on the serial bus is just a serialized version of the IEEE-488 protocol, and the device commands are identically formatted. All that should be required is getting whatever host software you want to use from the PC to talk on the interface. Or, you could plunk an SIE-to-IEEE converter onto the chain and talk to the 8250 through that, since it will just throttle the drive speed kind of harshly but won't affect the command set, which didn't change between the two buses. The OpenCBM software you'll have seen a link to on the XA1541 page has a link to a buildable adapter in the Supported CBM Hardware section of its' documentation. (This software is also several years newer than the stuff you've linked to.) This is the way we would have done it back in the day, to get access to those high-capacity floppy drives from the later Commodore 8-bit machines. (Also would work with their two models of Commodore external hard drives, although those were right bastards to work with, since, IIRC, they didn't support any kind of hierarchical directory structure or virtual imaging system.) You could also jump forward in time to the current descendants of the device you're using here, and use something like a ZoomFloppy instead (www.go4retro.com/products/zoomfloppy/) that supports IEEE directly and is claimed to perform better than the device you've replicated. OpenCBM already supports ZoomFloppy, so you'd just need suitable cabling.

[@tarstarkusz]

That's a brand new disk out of the box. You have to format it first! It doesn't format for you. You cannot back-up your boxed games with this, it will not work. It does not work with ANY protected disk.

[@byteframe_primarydataloop]

How goes the Data General super computer project with the thousand poound hard drives? Oh my god look at the cat!

[@orangie8426]

I want to play a disk not copy one.. is it possible to say get a commodore 64 emulator for windows and run a game disk direct from a 1541 drive? I mean basically use a windows pc as if it were a commodore computer but playing the actual original commodore disk software.. ok here is what it is.. I had a music composer program for the commodore that allowed you to create and save the work. Back in the 80's a friend of mine and i made lots of songs and saves. I still have the software and disk drive and save disks but no commodore.. it died years ago.. I want so badly to hear the saved work once more.

[@mica7191]

Nice cat by the way...

[@roberthayes6329]

I made that cable over 17 years ago...

[@matthewplehn4271]

am i the only one that feels like he needs 20 or more years in electronic-computer repair and or a electrical engineering degree to understand whats the hell is going?

[@stevesmusic1862]

It reminded me of XTGold :)

[@Ezyasnos]

@6:58: I really wouldn't do that. I would just keep things inside, and add it as a commodore serial port (these female din plugs are still easy obtainable, but perhaps you need to drill a hole in your pc case)

[@stephenwhite506]

With XUM1541 ProMicro and Nibtools (Nibread and Nibwrite) you can read and write copy protected disks via USB using a 1541 (with parallel connections hooked up) or a 1571 (with SRQ). See myoldcomputer.nl/commodore-64/xum1541-promicro/

[@Captain_Char]

sounds like you need a floppy emulator for your pet, but yeah I enjoy the physical floppy disks, but I find as my C64 disks are getting as old as I am if not older, Im more worried of them just crashing out on me

[@visontai]

Can you copy a GEOS disk with it?

[@allan.n.7227]

I have a defect PET dual disk drive i some day hope to get fixed.. have no idea how though... Untill now I have only stared into "the hood" 😲

[@Stjaernljus]

KITTY!!!!!!!!!!!

[@bitemykrank1970]

Now you need a way to connect your C-64 to a VIC 20 to then connect that to an RCA Fred 2. Just try NOT to upset The Flintstones whilst your rumbling about in all this modern hi-tech gadgetry stuff....

[@benshannon9386]

had an opportunity to own a bread bin C64, but I went for an Atari 800 instead

[@LWBII00]

Dude you’d look so much better with short hair.