Alcohol and Van travel - What you need to know! Drunk in Charge of Motorhome, campervan, RV

[@jamessmith-on3jf]

Really good advice. But I should be doing a life sentence as I am in charge of both car in my house and always have access to the key when intoxicated with alcohol, should I give my neighbour my keys whenever I consume alcohol at home? LOL

[@thedrummerboy1215]

yes, you should call them and tell them you are drunk and have left your car keys with the neighbours.

[@larrywinning5183]

Friend of mine was taken to court charged with drunk in charge in his vow camper. The JUDGE in Glasgow RULED, he had NO INTENT TO DRIVE, FOUND NOT GUILTY.

[@ExploreVanUK]

@@larrywinning5183 perfect example of why it’s important to have as much evidence as possible to demonstrate you have no intention to drive whilst over the limit and why we do all the things we do. As it is quite possible you could end up in court having to prove it. If you don’t mind sharing more details of the case (name / date / court) I’d love to look into the case more. If you don’t want to share here, please feel free to contact me via the contact form on our website. www.explorevan.uk/getintouch.html

[@larrywinning5183]

@ can I send the details to an e mail or something as I do not wish my friend’s name public. It was in a VW camper parked outside his then garage, in Ruthven Lane Glasgow He had been in the Curlers pub in Byres Rd. with us and he decided to stay overnight. He was wakened up and charged around 2am It went to Glasgow Sherif Court.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Thanks Larry you can drop us the details direct using our contact form here: www.explorevan.uk/getintouch.html You might want to just check with your mate that is happy for you to. But I'd greatly appreciate it.

[@ExploreVanUK]

I'm assuming its not this case from 2021? As I imagine the accused in this example would have struggled to get a not guilty verdict. www.forum.drinkdriving.org/threads/drinking-in-my-camper-turned-on-ignition-to-charge-heat-my-diesel-heating-up-as-cold-police-caught-me-with-alcohol-in-my-system.136819/

[@biomechanique6874]

Knowing a little about Scottish law I am surprised it wasn't a 'not proven' verdict.

[@riccacreecca]

In other words guilty till you can prove your innocence the exact opposite of innocent until proven guilty. What a con our so called justice is

[@TheSmallRabbit]

As were now living in the communist fascist UK with two tier or no justice at times, what else do we expect.

[@TwoDogsplusMe]

Yes, it is similar to walking a dog off lead... where the presumption of innocence is terminated because the animal unless highly trained (not always then) is considered in law to not be under control, therefore it being off lead, you have committed a crime....

[@ianjohnson1207]

Wrong, completely wrong

[@irvsstella]

I had an incident years ago whilst on an overnight HGV delivery. I parked up, went and got my dinner and 4 beers, cooked my dinner and had a beer x4. Got woke up at 3am by a policeman, told to move on. I stated I'd had a few beers, the truck keys were outside the cab! Under Police direction, I was allowed to move my vehicle, even though I was maybe 2x over limit? Got the officer to sign my tachocard (that's how long ago...) No further questions me'lard!

[@billienomates1606]

If you took notice of every law in the U.K. you would not get up in the morning. My advice is just to use common sense and enjoy yourself.

[@ruebencover5795]

You can't use common sense not with this government in charge

[@wobby1516]

A police officer told me that if I were in a public car park and had paid to stay, technically I could be charged with being in charge of a vehicle however he wouldn’t. However if one is staying on a campsite or a chargeable aire then I was ok. I make a point of never consuming alcohol when driving in France even if I’m staying on one of their free to park aire de service points. The reason was one time several years ago I was overnighting on an aire when told to move by an official as the aire was being closed for repair. I had a couple of G&Ts which in France left me way over their limit, I moved to another aire close by but that taught me a lesson. In the U.K. where Aires are few and far between I simple don’t drink alcohol, instead I drink 0 alcohol beer.

[@ifell3]

I'm not likely to drive the vehicle officer because I'm drunk and you're here ^^

[@ExploreVanUK]

🤣🤣 not sure that would stand up to challenge though. 👍

[@ifell3]

@ExploreVanUK 😆

[@davidjacobs828]

Hi , new subscriber here. Great video . I was impressed by the number of combined strategies . I was particularly impressed with you sending a text to a friend confirming you won't be driving until the next day. Superb .

[@allanraymond1248]

Fitting a windscreen cover if you have one could be added to your list maybe ?

[@ExploreVanUK]

That's a great idea! We do this, but never thought of it being an advantage from that perspective.

[@jamesfoote8916]

So to keep it simple if you are on a camp site you can drink but if you wild camp with a possible move on demand then don't drink

[@ExploreVanUK]

Not necessarily true given this prosecution on a holiday park. However I would expect it very unlikely to be charged with Drunk in Charge (rather than Driving or Attempting to drive) where the vehicle is on an allocated pitch - as the pitch could be viewed as Private, unlike the roads / parking spaces on the site, which are "accessible to the public" www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/holiday-park-drink-driver-thought-25640518

[@SirShoX0r]

Seems quite over the top, as every step you've taken is easily reversible. But I suppose the point isn't to convince an ego fueled copper, but to present enough information to force the CPS to dismiss the case.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Spot on - difficult as it is at the time - its the view of the CPS and ultimately the Court that matters not the Arresting Officer. The more weight to demonstrate there is "no likelihood of you driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in their breath, blood or urine exceeded the prescribed limit." (which is the CPS guidance) the better.

[@SimonWad]

Am considering buying a timelock/countdown safe for the ignition key

[@ExploreVanUK]

That’s a good shout. I’ve seen cheapish timed “snack jars” but not really looked into anything more secure. amzn.to/4jgeQPT But just noticed this timed padlock which could be a good option. amzn.to/40FKcrK

[@terrysutton6334]

what if the vehicle has to be moved in a emergency?

[@edward877]

@@terrysutton6334 Good question, I guess if there was no choice it would have to be moved either by the over the limit driver or by someone else, either the police wouldn't be there or wouldn't breathalise the driver or the driver would be charged for drink driving.

[@bobikdylan]

It's worth remembering that cops can nick you for drink driving even if you are under the limit if they think you are impaired due to alcohol.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Great point and potentially a whole other can of worms! Unfitness to drive: evidence of unfitness to drive can be established by witness observations of the defendants driving and condition Presence of drink or drugs in the body: can be established by the result of a breath, blood or urine analysis or from witness observations such as a witness who testifies the defendant had been drinking The RTA says: A person shall be taken to be unfit to drive if his ability to drive properly is for the time being impaired. A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section. For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.

[@mellarner8253]

Way back, a mate of mine was done for drunk in charge, he was in the car, not in the drivers seat, but had the keys in his pocket…

[@keithharrison9644]

thank you for this video its what i do its common sence but good to see that you do the same ,enjoy your othervideos cheers.(jogalong).

[@ExploreVanUK]

Thanks 👍

[@user-re6yo7tj5s]

It wouldnt require much more than a bit of software for motorhome manufacturers to equip them with a user programmable lock out timer into the vehicles bcm or pcm to inhibit starting,Ive spent nearly forty years in vehicle electronics,electrics and diagnostics,it would take very little to implement.If you can prove that the vehicle is unusable until such a time that you are legally able to drive again then there is no grey area.

[@RD-650]

Do that mean if you have your car on the drive at home that if you have a drink you can still be guilty ?

[@leecintra8056]

Only if you go sit in the car

[@ExploreVanUK]

Technically I would say if there is an intent to drive then yes, but realistically I would imagine there would need to be something pretty significant to demonstrate that intent - like sitting in the car / starting the engine

[@thedrummerboy1215]

Its no problem.The police once opened my door and I was very drunk, they said thats fine as long as there were no keys in the ignition and I was not in the front.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Sensible officers in that case, I wouldn’t be confident that is universal as the technicalities of the law or guidance don’t make any specifications on keys having to be in ignition and there are cases of prosecution without the keys in the ignition

[@thedrummerboy1215]

@@ExploreVanUK that's ridiculous.Police told me as long as you don't have the keys in the ignition and are not sitting in the front you are ok and specially on private land, you can do what every you want to

[@ExploreVanUK]

Sorry, but it’s not the case, these things could contribute to a defence, but aren’t explicitly called out. I don’t disagree that it shouldn’t be more clear but sadly it’s not. The private land point is also questionable, see the case law links in the video description where presidence has been set on what some would class as private land.

[@markmewordz6860]

I have left my ignition key behind the bar in many a pub when they have given me permission to over night park in my camper after a 'sesh'. I just collect the key next day from the bar and I'm under the limit. Nay mithers 😉

[@MickG-e3g]

So when are they banning pub car parks ????

[@IverKnackerov]

I suppose it makes sense to make people aware, but maybe a little over the top. But any advice that includes leaving the key to your extremely valuable motorhome/campervan in someone else's possession or stashed under a hedge, is wrong. Once you lose possession of your key, you are uninsured for theft - so you'd better have a very good immobilizer and no valuables in there.

[@ExploreVanUK]

It's a good point and other than leaving them behind the bar with the landlord, not something I would suggest either, however as the general point is you are in the Campervan,, I would think the risk of theft is low.

[@burnsy2023]

Giving a key to another party doesn't necessarily mean you're uninsured. It's completely dependent on your insurer and the specific terms of your policy.

[@1longlong]

Thank you nanny

[@Andreteam1]

Hey i have a question, do you know how to get a nat type 2on a huawei 4g router?.

[@DaveAppleton]

Me and some mates used to sleep in our cars after clubing and we'd swap keys and try not to parrk next to each other. The reason we used to do that is because we heard of someone sleeping in their car on the back seat and a copper woke them up breathalysed them and charged them with being drunk in charge because they had the keys, even though the engine was cold and they were asleep in the back. This was a third hand story from years ago so don't ask me if they were actually convicted.

[@ExploreVanUK]

I suspect the story could be correct, there are documented similar cases leading to successful prosecutions. Swapping keys sounds like a good way to demonstrate you have no intention to drive.

[@chrisatkin7130]

A mate of mine was convicted for doing that in the 80s. He was asleep in the back of his car and had the keys in his pocket, the car was parked in a off road carpark at the time.

[@harryboy3305]

Rubbish

[@andyeveritt9003]

i know somebody who was charged with being drunk in charge when they were asleep in the back of there car . was in the pub car park

[@ExploreVanUK]

Yes this is a risk as some will consider it is “private land” but Lewis v DPP [2004] EWHC 3081 (Admin) calls out a pub car park as a “Public Place”

[@JonnieGS1200]

After spending 7 yrs in the UK as a Full timer... In an A class (with F/T bona fide insurance) - Parking in lay-byes et all.. (so effectively on public roads) It's a question that's been asked a thousand times... I have never had an issue... It's an area where one shouldn't press the Police for a definitive answer.... they don't want to know ... and if pressed .. it'll prob not be in your favour... Jus be sensible when parking.... IF you've had alcohol... you don't want plod knocking on your door asking you to move.. unless oyu are diplomatic and talk them into letting you stay until the morning,,,

[@sm400]

I remember maybe 30 years ago sleeping in an escort van in the winter....and ignoring the police banging on the window...i had no keys to it anyway....about 5am it was so cold...ive removed plastic shroud and got it running with a split pin in connector plug to get some heating...😂😂😂...

[@waerlogauk]

Another point you mentioned was being parked in a public area. If the area you are parked in is gated, preferably with a sign saying access to customers only or similar I suspect you may be safe from these accusations.

[@ExploreVanUK]

"Other public place" is generally understood to be any place where the public have access. I suspect a locked gate could potentially be a defence or at minimum extra weight to the challenge of having no likelihood to drive. However, without the gate I suspect it would be classed as accessible to the public.

[@burnsy2023]

@@ExploreVanUK Case law varies on this. A pub car park an hour after closing has been held not to be a public place. Sandy v Martin 1974

[@ExploreVanUK]

Yet more recently in Lewis v DPP [2004] EWHC 3081 it was deemed to be a Public Place. Bit of a roll of the dice depending on the circumstances

[@burnsy2023]

@ Both cases are consistent with eachother. In the Lewis V DPP case, the pub was open at the time. The Sandy v Martin case says that an hour after closing it's no longer a public place.

[@NiallWardrop]

Any thoughts on whether it makes a difference if there is no connection between the living area and the cab without going outside?

[@ExploreVanUK]

Possibly it would be a help in demonstrating the balance of probability of a lower likelihood/intent to drive, but really only if you don’t have a key for the cab.

[@NiallWardrop]

@ExploreVanUK Not practical as I solo camp. Basically, if you get a cop who has got it in for you, you're going to court. I've just been using FLS stay the night locations, and decided not to drink at all to give me the option of bailing out late at night if the wrong people turned up. An interesting issue with Stay the night, Brit stops and the like is the " nothing on the ground" rule as you are parking not camping which would otherwise suggest no intention to move.

[@crystalmethking]

I sleep in the nude, there would be a whole new offence there if the police come knocking!!

[@ExploreVanUK]

🤣🤣 a good defence I would think, at least for the being charge!

[@TwoDogsplusMe]

The police have already prosecuted individuals for having keys available to them one, i understand beng the keys were in a safe in the vehicle, but the no prospect was not a defence because there was nothing stopping them using the keys...... in addition in such cases there in little to nothing then stopping your vehicle being searched

[@ExploreVanUK]

I'm not overly surprised but I would love to see the cases this relates to as I couldn't find specifics for motorhomes / Campervans. If you have details please do share. As with any crime, charging will ultimately come down to the CPS assessment that there is enough evidence against the suspect to provide a realistic prospect of conviction, the evidence is reliable, credible and whether there is anything that might undermine the case against the defendant. A successful prosecution will come down to the the Court's decision and in a case of Drunk in Charge is likely to come down to their assessment of the Likelihood you would drive. The more evidence you have to demonstrate that there was no likelihood of driving the vehicle in the opinion of either the CPS or the Court the better.

[@ifell3]

Great video!

[@rayholmes4402]

I was drunk in my campervan , parked completely legally .. I hadn’t moved my van in over 24hrs … it was dark (about 10pm) , the police came knocking at my window .. I just completely ignored them. No arrest warrant, so no entry and no reason to talk to them ….. you’ll know your in serious trouble only when they start to smash your windows and break in

[@jannovotny6244]

The alcohol tolerance limits in the map are wrong. Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania have a 0.00 limit, not 0.02

[@ExploreVanUK]

Thank you! Yes that source does seem out of date - this data may be more accurate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country I've added this to the sources in the Video Description

[@jannovotny6244]

@ExploreVanUK these countries never had a higher limit, the source just made up some numbers...

[@davidoldboy5425]

Easiest solution?? travel with your wife or teetotal mate who are insured to drive the van, then you can get as drunk as you want

[@jim9355]

I always take my wheels of when I decided to have a drink at the side of the Road. Never had a problem.

[@ruebencover5795]

You talk rubbish

[@TheNOMAD60]

there should be zero drink when stoped the smell has you shafted

[@teddiver-gf6dj]

The law is an ASS.

[@sqwidink1]

Hole. Do what you like life's too short

[@brucecurtis6281]

Paranoia, and compliance to police state dogma. Oh, and you did say you would be covering the situation in the uk, but failed to note any differences in policing or law between England and the other nations, beyond the initial preamble. Silently the law is required to prove intent to drive, not the mere possibility that it might happen.

[@flapper111uk]

Hotel ?

[@ballisticdan9135]

Thx great in

[@gar6446]

I used to roll my car over the key so it was under the wheel.

[@Mmmmmmmiwish]

what about being parked on private land...

[@ExploreVanUK]

"Other public place" is generally understood to be any place where the public have access. I suspect a locked gate could potentially be a defence or at minimum extra weight to the challenge of having no likelihood to drive. However, without the gate I suspect it would be classed as accessible to the public, even if they potentially shouldn't.

[@phillwainewright4221]

You can be as pissed as you like. Just don't drive out to the road!

[@adrianengland4563]

The Road Traffic Act and associated legislation applies everywhere "the public has reasonable access". This would even apply to Motorsport venues except the MSA can issue exemption certificates to authorised events.

[@burnsy2023]

@@adrianengland4563 The specific definition is "'Any place to which the public have open access is a public place, even if payment must be made to gain entry'." And there's loads of case law on this which sometimes seems conflicting.

[@ExploreVanUK]

This case is a good example to show where the expectation of being on private land isn't a defence. As the offender was successfully prosecuted for an offence within a Holiday Park. However I would expect it very unlikely to be charged with Drunk in Charge (rather than Driving or Attempting to drive) where the vehicle is on an allocated pitch - as the pitch could be viewed as Private, unlike the roads / parking spaces on the site, which are "accessible to the public" www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/holiday-park-drink-driver-thought-25640518

[@stokecarpanglers]

Seems a little over the top to me. I think it would take a very overzealous police officer to ask for a breathe test off someone in a campervan if the engine is not running. I suppose you never know but common sense should prevail. I've had experience of someone getting arrested for this offence and they were acquitted at court and they were in a car, on a public road, pissed with the engine running, sitting in the driver's seat believe it or not.

[@ExploreVanUK]

I don't disagree, I think it would it is potentially low risk, but still worth being aware of.

[@pilkipilki4472]

we are talking about UK police PC Savage comes to mind walking on the cracks on the pavement

[@jeremyminns5627]

Strong magnet under wheel arch. no key on person no charge,and engine is not running.

[@IverKnackerov]

And someone nicks your van - then you're totally uninsured.

[@robert100xx]

I'd think plod would want to know the backstory about the key. eg, is it with pub landlord or your sober spouse.

[@dewaltxrp7889]

WHAT ABOUT TRUCK DRIVERS

[@ExploreVanUK]

Technically the same applies (and in some EU countries to a stricter level.)

[@Hobosurvival]

Dont answer the door! Sorted 😊

[@alistairogden2336]

Meany years a go a bunch of young lads all got into the car and then headed home out of the pub car park. Few miles later we were stopped by the police who came round to the front of the vehicle. after we Lowed the window He asked us where we been one of my fellow passenger who had consumed rather a lot of alcohol lent forward from the backseat and said “it’s alright officer one of us gets pissed and the rest drive.” The police man laughed, and we were very soon all on our way…….

[@harryboy3305]

Lies fake click bait

[@palemale2501]

The hardest part of "Do not drink & drive" is being exactly sure you are below the limit - which is a time factor. Of course it depends on body weight, gender, age, fitness, alcohol consumed - and most importantly time elapsed. Do you wait well say half a day or a day or buy a professional regularly calibrated breathalyser for £250 like me. I await the do-gooders to reply with "don't drink" - at least I am always 100% sure when I am under, but are they ?.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Its a very good point.

[@TwoDogsplusMe]

including any illness you have that can affect your system including medication even as simple as some of the stronger over the counter pain killers or cough mixture

[@TheMilford99]

Simple, you can be charged and prosecuted if you are anywhere the public has access. Don`t need this blog.

[@ExploreVanUK]

This is basically correct - though there are examples of case law that successfully challenge the Public Vs Private view point dependant on how the charge is brought to court. eg Cowan v DPP , 177 JP 474, QBD Massey v Boulden [2003] 1 WLR 1792 CA Brewer v DPP [2005] RTR 5 DC And whilst you may be arrested and charged you can raise a defence on the basis of "no likelihood of driving the vehicle" which is covered in the video.

[@ruebencover5795]

What a load of rubbish talked here 🙈

[@edward877]

Interesting subject this, you made some good points which I think will help people out. I think there are so many different situations and grey areas such as what is classed as a public area, where any keys for the vehicle are etc. I'm not sure if having the keys in a key safe in the van would be beneficial because you can still have access to them, just my own opinion. I like your idea of leaving the ignition key with someone else, the only problem would be if you did really have to move the van for example if you were in danger or in an emergency. like I said so many different circumstances.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Yeah - absolutely spot on, it's a mine field and ultimately will come down to the Police Officers opinion, the CPS prosecution assessment and the Court's weighing up of the evidence as to whether there is enough of a defence. Realistically, I doubt the risk of Danger or an Emergency would give any justification for a defence, as the expectation would proabbly be that the risk should be taken into consideration as part of your decision to drink.

[@mintywebb]

If you want to get shitfaced go to a site...

[@ExploreVanUK]

May not be quite that black and white given this prosecution on a holiday park. However I would expect it very unlikely to be charged with Drunk in Charge (rather than Driving or Attempting to drive) where the vehicle is on an allocated pitch - as the pitch could be viewed as Private, unlike the roads / parking spaces on the site, which are "accessible to the public" www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/holiday-park-drink-driver-thought-25640518 This case law also demostrates a Roadway on a privately owned caravan Park is a road - Barrett v DPP [2010] RTR DC

[@kellymelrose8527]

i sometimes stash my ignition key outside the vehicle

[@ExploreVanUK]

Good option

[@IverKnackerov]

@@ExploreVanUK Seriously? A key for a £50k+ motorhome ?? You're uninsured.

[@ExploreVanUK]

I don't see as too much of a risk and a reason to be uninsured if you are in the vehicle? But agree if you are not.

[@jannovotny6244]

Exactly how does that help anything? How can you prove to the cop that your only key is hidden behind a rock somewhere and you don't have it in your pocket or under the mattress? They would need to search the vehicle for which they need probable cause or a warrant - and "being parked legally and sleeping" definitely isn't probable cause...

[@ExploreVanUK]

The point of the video is to raise awareness of the risk and options you have that may reduce that risk. 

 An Officer has the right to ask for a Roadside Breath Test with just the suspicion that you may have driven, attempted to drive or are in charge of a vehicle. 
 If the RBT is failed and you were to then show the officer you were in possession of your ignition key, it impacts your defence. (Some people may not know this and just show it to the officer when asked) Officers could employ tactics like asking how you unlocked the vehicle to get in, or explaining that the the vehicle will be left insecure while you are taken to the station for an evidential test if you can’t produce the keys. 

 Producing the keys from inside the vehicle would not be advantageous, where as producing them from outside the vehicle could be beneficial to your defence. 

 eg I would suggest a court could view
Having the ignition key in the vehicle would give a higher likelihood you will drive, to having the ignition key outside the vehicle.

[@kronos4136]

Or, stop drinking altogether as it's actually poisonous to the body, but judging by the state of most Motorhomers , they don't seem that bothered.

[@superchilledbru]

You do you and let others do themselves. You have heard of enjoyment, that's the things we do that we like to do. Now the idea that everyone needs to follow some path that is all good for the body negates the fact that a body belongs to a person and that person can do what they want with it. Lighten up and let people be.

[@kronos4136]

@superchilledbru yeah fine by me you carry on chief!

[@SepticWhelk]

The law is what the pig on site says it is .

[@ExploreVanUK]

From the perspective of potential for arrest this is true, as it is down to the officer's interpretation of the Law. Thankfully - its down to the CPS and the Court's interpretation as to whether their is enough evidence to charge and prosecute.

[@toonarmy8524]

If you arnt moving how can you be driving drunk lol. Being in charge means your actually driving it.

[@ExploreVanUK]

Driving and in charge are two different things. You can be in charge without even being in the vehicle.