Alex Honnold discusses fear with psychology researcher Armita Golkar - Nobel Week Dialogue 2019

"To fear or not to fear?" Alex Honnold and Armita Golkar discuss fear, risk, rock climbing and psychology in this discussion moderated by Carin Klaesson, curator at Nobel Media.
Alex Honnold is a professional rock climber whose audacious free-solo ascents of America’s biggest cliffs have made him one of the most recognised and followed climbers in the world.
Armita Golkar is a psychology researcher and associate senior lecturer at Stockholm University and an affiliated researcher at Karolinska Institutet where she studies emotional learning and memory.
The Nobel Week Dialogue is an annual science conference on 9 December in Nobel Week. The goal of the event is to bring together a select group of the world's leading scientists, policy-makers and thinkers for a series of thought-provoking sessions and working groups on a topical science-related theme. With this event the Nobel Institutions aim to deepen the dialogue between the scientific community and the rest of society on issues connected with the Nobel Prize and of importance for the world.

[@FallLineJP]

“Reframe fear as excitement. They feel almost the same inside your body.” Super insightful and genius lifehack.

[@thejam69]

I loved that statement too, problem is, it’s easier said than done.

[@will224488guy]

@@thejam69 It comes with comfort. When I end up further off the ground on a jump with my snowboard than I expect there's a moment of 'fear' but it is more like excitement because I have been there before and I have over 1000 days on my snowboard. Ive also accidentally walked up on a bear and even though the bear was about as afraid as I was, I was basically shitting my pants and there's no way I could turn that into excitement

[@kazimierzgarshin3924]

I liked her answer better. I suffer from complex trauma which comes along with anxiety. In certain areas of life I just not have had enough safe experiences so I get anxious very easy.

[@xi-deadshot-ix5838]

It’s definitely true. Typically fear triggers the fight or flight response in our bodies which does a lot in relation to how we perceive things and act upon them. I can definitely relate. I ride motocross and when I get to a new track and am eying up a big new jump there’s usually a fairly high degree of fear involved. Part of being able to push past it is knowing my skill and ability and trusting my own judgment. If I’m even thinking about hitting a big jump, a very large part of me believes I can do it otherwise I wouldn’t even be thinking about doing it. Translating that fear into a more enjoyable sensation kinda comes naturally in what I do because I know what it’s going to feel like to conquer that fear and accomplish my goal. I think that’s what drives most of us “adrenaline junkies”. It’s basically a life hack that allows you to get high by manipulating your own biochemistry 😆

[@MVPhurricane]

super good stagefright hack, i can say from firsthand experience =)

[@FlaxeMusic]

Naturally introverted dude. Probably needed a good day alone on a wall to recharge after this.

[@Isabellmaguire3684]

true,but i like how he isn't narcisstic in any way. i hate how people use their narcissism and try to show it as being intelligence

[@genericusername8337]

@@Isabellmaguire3684 Why would him being introverted suggest he's narcissistic? Because that's what your comment seems to suggest. It's like your default assumption is that he's narcissistic and you're now surprised and happy that he isn't.

[@cowieson]

@@genericusername8337 I think perhaps the implied correlation with narcissism isn't from introversion but from fame? Or perhaps his overt intelligence since that's what was mentioned. (For what it's worth, I'm certainly appreciative of the fact that the relatively recent spike in his fame doesn't seem to have had any negative impact on his personality!)

[@lotuskoko]

I can definitely relate. I assisted a photographer friend once at the biggest outdoor retail trade show in The U.S. Was only three days of actual running around. It wasn't strenuous work. Actually quite fun. But, man, if I didn't need a week to ten days to recover. (Luckily I could hide out in the studio afterwards organizing images, lol.)

[@EmilyRose0]

I do not think Alex Honnold IS introverted, he probably was at some point but that is long gone.

[@painmono2478]

My palms start sweating just by watching Alex sitting in chair and talking. It''s some kind of Pavlovian reaction now.

[@lametraserillos1]

sure !!

[@SelinaENTE]

"I hope he's not gonna fall of the chair! >,

[@apaarsadhwani]

Dude, this is hilarious!! :D

[@matthewlueder2656]

I mean it would be pretty nerve-wracking just doing this interview

[@420fallsogdawg8]

😂😂😂

[@fredleber2432]

He's a perfect example of a seasoned climber who never got overconfident, yet exactly confident enough

[@evrythingis1]

Survivorship bias, ask him if he thinks he is a better climber than any of his past friends who fell to their death.

[@chanmax2]

I think if you're getting overconfident in these types of high risk activities, you're dead.

[@gargantuangouda605]

Watch his Ted talk when he talks about soloing half dome.

[@thijmen6451]

@@evrythingis1 he would undoubtely say no to some of them. A lot of climbers die from holds breaking and not necessarily through fault of their own

[@Zelchinho]

@@evrythingis1 what makes him great, is he would tell u honestly. And thats all that matters right?

[@bauhausoffice]

Let’s just say it. Alex is a genius. I’ve watched a lot of interviews with him and he clearly is a high-level thinker and could probably have mastered anything he wanted in life.. He happened to choose rockclimbing. I do believe that there are a handful of people on this planet that are capable of that level of thinking and Alex should be applauded.

[@sml2238]

id say there's a lot more than a handful on the planet bud. there's a lot of remarkable people. but i do agree he is very intelligent. he seems to have a way to look at things very objectively outside of his own ego.

[@johnvallsater4499]

He has no activation in his amygdela.

[@sml2238]

@@johnvallsater4499 Yeah or at least it was much lower than average. I saw that in the film as well. Interesting!

[@yewang8878]

I completely agree

[@chefmarcos]

He is a rock climber. Genius is generally reserved for those that express their genius in more mentally challenging areas. Rock climbing like most all sports are relatively simple endeavors compared to the majority of challenges most people face in real life. Not taking away from this guy’s focus and passion. But genius is not a label to thrown around lightly.

[@GuacSause]

I love how intellectual they were trying to be and alex is just like “yea that looks fun” 💀, such a down to earth dude

[@sijenkai3928]

Such an up on earth guy if you as me

[@skillamaroo4976]

In his profession, one can only be a down to earth dude once.

[@the99thtimelord16]

They make their living pretending they have an intellect that makes them matter, so they have to continue the ruse. Truth be told the day they leave this earth, mankind will have gained and lost absolutely not one single thing from their having been here and the same can't be said for Alex.

[@zinzincoetzee1934]

When hes free soloing I think the last thing he wants to be is "down to earth"

[@shLSS]

"You know, I have no technical knowledge about fear except that I spend a lot of time being very afraid." - That made me laugh so hard :-)

[@lennarthagen3638]

Really? Why?

[@user-xm4ci6bp4b]

"It's nice to hear you explain that way, because I have no technical knowledge about fear except that I spend a lot of time being very afraid". (10:22). I too thought that statement by Honnold is illogical. Why would anyone like being afraid so many times?

[@gabrielgarcia-zw8fu]

@@user-xm4ci6bp4b because what he does is worth it. "The Inner Game of Tennis", says they're three types of people when it comes to overcoming obstacles. One, meets it and quits because it's too hard to overcome. The second, does everything to overcome without thinking it through. The third, looks over the obstacle to analyze if the obstacle is worth overcoming. Alex is the third person. He loves climbing that much.

[@geneticjen9312]

Also the "is that true!?"

[@jrummy73]

Earth's population is almost 8 billion and no one else on earth has ever done what Alex has done. No one.. Until they do this dude is unmatched

[@dilmibilal2618]

i think there's his name is marc andre leclerc ,even alex was impressed with his achievements

[@scotthumphrey3282]

@jrummy73 That’s correct, MA was in a class of his own. Pure insanity.

[@luisp4009]

Alex Honnold is to me one of the most ground to earth guy in this world that I personally admire, as an athlete and as a human being, just pure class!

[@LordAsturgis]

Most ground to Earth, or down to Earth, how ironic 😄

[@Mrbfgray]

Yeah "ground *into* Earth" comes to mind there but I agree. To a large extent it's typical of anyone who routinely exposes themselves to extreme hazards, there is NO ROOM for BS, if you kid others you can kid yourself and that habit will kill you. I've seen it in underground mining, logging, helicopter pilots and so on, those are real men without any tolerance for deception on any level, no sugar coating, no wishful thinking, no fragile feelings....just brutally facing the reality at hand.

[@Zelchinho]

@@Mrbfgray just being honest and authentic.

[@michaelmoynihan9591]

He not an athlete self indulgent fool.obviously lift doesn't go all the way to the top. No concern for his family.selfish guy.sucidial fool .

[@deox4225]

"I would say my job is to reduce uncertainty", thats a great phrase for research and science overall

[@MasterChief-sl9ro]

That is exactly what they do. They think like an engineer. All the possible failure points one would encounter. But they do know they could die. And that is the one emotion people try to avoid. The idea of death. As if they are going to get out of this world alive. Humans, the only Species that knows one day they will die from an early age..

[@plinyelder8156]

Science means knowing. So reducing uncertainty is already implicitly inherent.

[@ziyangwu2578]

@Justin Lukas unless you design a good method of collecting data and use statistic method to trim the data, then use proper algorithm mining the data. Maybe then there would be some good results then you may need to increase the sample size of your data and do it several more times, which could prove your hypothesis wrong during the process. If there is a solid finding after the whole process, there would also be peer reviews on different levels. Phycology is science because it uses scientific method as any other scientific fields.

[@LEuler-wl1jp]

@@MasterChief-sl9ro funny that scientists exist before engineers but you say they think like an engineer

[@truthbetold1855]

@@ziyangwu2578 It does not use the scientific method like other fields. It's not predictable. It's a pseudoscience that may refer to some science, but its not a science itself.

[@dkalir]

Alex is brilliant. His risk-probability analysis is one of the best I've heard - in game theory, economics, or the law. And he has the goods to back it up; not only his amazing first ascents of El Sendro Luminoso, Half Dome, El Cap, and others - but the fact that no one has ever contemplated to do any of them, either before Alex or since his amazing achievements. We're lucky to have such an eloquent, erudite, and fun to watch icon among us...

[@omp365]

what makes his fear slightly different to others is that he probably wouldn't have to live with the consequence of failing.

[@ahybridbassist]

Not to denigrate Honnold’s achievements (because they are undeniable) but I feel it’s important to clarify that while his are the first free solo ascents of those routes, their first ascents belong to other climbers.

[@cous]

I admire Alex, but he’s lucky too. He takes it seriously but he’s not a scholar of risk analysis, he is still likely to die if he continues free soloing

[@ripperfisher182250]

@@ahybridbassist yes x1000. I love Alex honnold. But it's kinda irritating to hear people attribute first ascent to him on climbs done first by others... But still amazing feats he's done.

[@g.h7657]

@@ahybridbassist are you guys slow? Obviously he's talking about free soloing.

[@pkvarntun]

The second most impressive thing about Alex is hes free soloing. The most impressive is that he knows that the Metric system is used everywhere outside USA..

[@whollymary7406]

We’ve gone to the moon and back using the imperial system of measurement and well go to Mars without changing it so if it isn’t broke don’t fix it babe

[@corbindrollinger1948]

@@whollymary7406 no, that statement is wrong: the scientists that constructed the Saturn V etc used metric, they did most calculations in metric, NASA uses metric, they have their HUD output in imperial for the (american) astronauts piloting the capsules.

[@alexandersmurr-ferrer7713]

@@whollymary7406 other way around lol

[@AirCrash1]

@@whollymary7406 Imperial is no longer a true measurement system as it references the metric standards and no longer has its own . Since the 1900s. You are 100 years too late to the protest babe.

[@RJMacReady1]

I like that he constantly makes extremely profound or insightful contributions and then kinda ends it with 'eh', or 'but yeah...', as if hes like, 'was that any good?' Yes, Alex. It was very, very good.

[@evrythingis1]

He ends with that because he knows it's bs, the dude is addicted to adrenaline, it's the only reason he does this. All the reasons he talks about doing it are completely horse crap, none of them even remotely justify risking your life.

[@deaconstjohn4842]

@@evrythingis1 aaand that is your opinion. That's it

[@DanPlayingGames]

Yeah, I noticed that. He's more confident climbing than with his speech.

[@kawaiisavage4822]

@@evrythingis1 It's pretty weird how you project your own feelings onto someone else to such a degree. You may feel that way, but he clearly doesn't. It strikes me that you probably also can't empathize with someone who's depressed or ANYONE who goes through a hard experience that you can't really relate to or understand.

[@GolfClashDreamR]

@Kawaii Savage Yeah no he definitely can’t... His comment showed quite a lot about his narrow thinking..

[@Nautilus1972]

Alex has one shirt.

[@PerceptionsofFate]

he has a red one too

[@nikolasalmodovar6420]

And it's fine.

[@Darri42]

He´s afraid of choice (and nothing else, obviously)

[@jerre6882]

When you are sponsored you get 2 boxes of the same shirt.

[@jakecalabrese]

Saves soooo much time...

[@ioannisaliazis]

Dude is a true stoic, visualizing death. Even visualizing the good feelings is good, because in the moment, you don't want any feelings, you want to be 100% focused and in flow. As a freediver, I can totally relate and this is very inspiring.

[@user-xm4ci6bp4b]

No. He does not visualise death. Rather he focuses on what he needs to know and do in order to escape death.

[@reitairue2073]

@@user-xm4ci6bp4b That's exactly what I heard too. He only talked about death because they asked the question the way they did. He went straight to talking about small obstacles that he might have to overcome. Dude is impressive.

[@evrythingis1]

@@reitairue2073 Impressive or avoidant and delusional?

[@taran5883]

He is very stoic in the fact that he won't let the possibility of the outcome of death stop him from doing something that he loves. He reduces the percentage chance of that risk as much as he can.

[@god5535]

I like how Alex took control of the whole room almost mid-way of the interview.

[@miguellavariel1348]

Happened at the beginning, when he asked who was climbing.😂

[@antonioluismarcoburgos8117]

In my opinion, the interviwer hadn't prepared the interview properly and the phycologist's answers were so long that made it difficult to grasp the main idea. I don't feel it was a good interview as a whole, despite Alex being as nice and grounded as usual. But both the interviewer and the doctor were quite plain and not interesting.

[@alivation]

Alex is a very intelligent person, extremely internally aware through constant self observation in order to know himself well enough to be able to do what he does. He has also read a lot it would seem.

[@badcornflakes6374]

Yes, he took inter baccalaureate classes in highschool with ease and enrolled in UC Berkeley to study as a civil engineer but dropped out.

[@cazsmith2358]

She wasn’t devaluing him in anyway. She was highlighting the fact that we take huge risks every day, but because they’re common actions, we don’t highlight them. Whereas what Alex does is so unique, it seems far more risky and threatening to us. When actually, he takes far more time considering what he’s doing, than say we do, getting into a car.

[@jimmyle3246]

brilliant analysis caz :)

[@evrythingis1]

lmao, it doesn't matter how much time he takes to consider; it is not comparable to taking a drive. What are the death rates for getting in the car vs free climbing? All that dude is doing is refusing to put on his seatbelt in a literal sense. He's an idiot.

[@AN-cy7xm]

Such a young guy to go through the rest of his life with everyone near him being kind of awestruck.

[@abbycicirelli6377]

If you examine all your fears, all the things you’re afraid of, you’ll see you are not afraid of something. You’re afraid of the thought of that thing. That’s how thoughts create fear. And fear is connected to the desire to not be afraid.

[@jamesneilsongrahamloveinth1301]

In order to reduce risk 'build a broad comfort zone', says Alex. This is profound. It is not enough simply to master the skills involved in what you intend to do. Just climbing El Cap with ropes however many times (Alex made multiple reconnaissances) would not have enabled him to free-solo El Cap. A varied training regime, a variety of climbing experiences, a variety of life experiences, a variety of modes of thinking over many years enabled him to tame El Cap in his own mind, thus reducing fear. It's a lesson in any field . . .

[@SarahNGeti]

Yes, he has a broad spectrum of experiences both good and bad that has given him the ability to predict what to train for and how to achieve his goals in the safest most predictable way to visualize and practice for so he is not "surprised or anxious" on a climb.

[@peaceandlove2555]

Totally 👌🏼

[@tannerm3240]

I really appreciate this discussion. Alex is great and his ability to translate and deconstruct such inconceivable actions and experiences into simple sport or mathematic examples, like his risk/consequence analogy and describing the psychological "Flow State" as simple muscle memory or performance reaches a much wider audience than the psychology behind it. But I loved how Armita reaffirmed the things he says, and also expounds upon them to ubiquitous fears in animals, having children, and within the general public, not just athletes or climbers. I think when that woman asked them what's the best way to counter fear at 22:40. Alex gave a very Alex and athlete-oriented response saying that it's all mental state. "I take fear and try to reframe it as excitement." He's focused on the his personal sensation and response to fear and how he, as a performer, can ignore it, subside it, or overcome it. Alex is smart so he's aware of the things he's feeling and why he feels them and can easily break them down to not be scary. One thing he said that I found particularly interesting was that fear and excitement feel the same within the body. On the other hand, Armita's response was much more sociological and psychological. Her response resting on research and can be applied to all fears and all people. She basically says that the only way to overcome fear is to associate that feared experience with safe experiences. Which all of Alex's training consist of, whether he was aware of it or not, that's why he was kinda talking over her when she got to her points because he was understanding and following along. He'll practice and study routes long before soloing to gain exposure and safe experience of the climb. So by the time he's up there there aren't unknowns, unexpecteds, he isn't afraid but familiar and therefore confident. Same with why people are more comfortable with driving vs. flying, because of exposure to driving is almost daily and you never really witness or experience crashes, where with aircraft you often hear of planes crashing and people rarely surviving. It's interesting seeing the responses they give and their similar but different perspectives. Armita is obviously knowledgable but uses long winded analogies and scientific terms to convey, whereas Alex is more familiar with the sensations Armita is describing leading him to easily and simply explain these wide ranging and deep topics.

[@heavydrizzle4472]

Damn, that was a spot-on description. Such a good discussion!

[@keltindall2870]

💯

[@sml2238]

I agree I felt the exact same way. Their dynamic was actually really good with the science and reasons behind certain fears, actions, and emotions we have/take and then simplifying them down to something practical and relateable.

[@annewillmott3091]

That was almost the perfect balance between theory and experience, scientific and experiential, technical and reactive. I love how this endearing introvert crosses happily and openly into the stream of word explanation of how he too feels at that moment, beautiful to see. She helped him to recognise what he knows in his being which gave him such instant pleasure. Love it, I learned a lot, thank all of you.

[@robertdeekrick278]

You needed both of them to create such an insightful dialogue. Armita was there to translate the concept of fear into scientific theory. Alex needed this because as he himself said, he lacked the technical psychological knowledge to connect his experiences to the theory. The fact that he could periodically pick up what she said so quickly and apply them to his wealth of climbing experiences on the spot was insane tho he’s definitely smart.

[@Adub86]

I just learned I only like Alex interviews when he's solo.

[@thebionicledude]

ADub is that a pun

[@JustLeonOfficial]

FREE SOLO :)

[@snailey0bailey]

Haha, but then he would have to interview himself?

[@troycarpenter3675]

Chair placement is divisively incorrect. Should be triangular

[@jeff0247598]

The best way to combat fear is to face that which you fear and expose yourself to it repeatedly. As you repeatedly expose yourself, survive the event or thing that you fear, you reinforce the fact that fear is almost unnecessary. I suffered from panic attacks due to several different things going on in my life at the time. My world shrank. The way Alex explained "expanding" your comfort bubble slowly is a great concept. When the panic would come, it gave me certain sensations, many uncomfortable. I began to exercise my mind to respond by facing it. I would tell myself I know what it is, it's uncomfortable for a finite time and it won't kill me. It almost began to become a game to me.

[@lordstryrofoam1213]

I wish Alex a very long and prosperous life. He is The Beatles of rock climbing.

[@LazloVimes]

He looks more afraid to be on that stage than he does to be climbing a big wall.

[@i_love_rescue_animals]

@In CogNito Oh me - me. I would just about rather die than talk in front of a crowd.

[@Salt9696]

Didn’t really see it. He looks confident and comfortable up there

[@ipitmyshants1135]

he said he was an introvert in one of his interviews

[@SD-cm6if]

This has become one of those cheesy and overused jokes. It’s just like Chuck Norris jokes, except these aren’t funny. He looks, speaks, and shows up with confidence on every stage

[@I_WANT_MY_SLAW]

I love how everybody is suddenly a body language expert now. If he didn't want to be there, he wouldn't have agreed to be there. He clearly wants to be there.

[@CodeKujo]

"safe experiences" is such a brilliantly simple and concise way to put that. It really sums up everything else that was said and put it into two words.

[@raymondfoo9045]

I think passion overcome fears. There is risk, but your passion is so huge that you want to take that risk.

[@odl21]

Very true. Sadly you can’t apply passion to every risk.

[@anonymousastronaut]

He's an expert Stoic and doesn't even know it.

[@wherethewildthingsarenot]

I've thought the same thing.

[@Jeoisah777]

Can one be an expert stoic while being aware of it?

[@hater3669]

Joshua Fobare hope so

[@RawrGinger]

definitely not a stoic, but he's one hell of a climber

[@jaydenlangmead9667]

He's attained mastery, no question. but, don't fall into the trap of thinking it's training alone. The guy is a almost the embodiment of an outlier, hes naturally fearless, and also seems to have a whole range of traits associated with Aspergers while also being extremely athletic. Those factors alone are extremely rare.

[@empanadani]

This was a really good conversation on fear. It was a good combo to have a "practitioner" and "academic" discuss it together.

[@beastraban9282]

We need people like Alex Honnold running America

[@user6008]

The irony of this presentation is that the most intelligent and imaginative person on stage is the one without a degree. Because what he does requires extraordinary mental prowess in risking real value where the reward is life itself.

[@earlgrey2130]

I think its a bit of a stretch to judge the intelligence of a person from a video

[@psSubstratum]

Why would you even want to compare? Thats not even the point here.

[@michelemeriggi]

It is clear that alex is the most imaginative person on stage, not only that but he also appears to have "processed" his thoughts down to more simple and digestable concepts, while the more educated psycologist is seriously struggling to explain her mix of experience and study to the general public.

[@MonsterShorts]

Such a great dude, and I’m super stoked how willing he is to improve science as well as his craft. Very few brains that work like his and have the experiences he has.

[@amycombsbaker514]

Amazing Alex , physically , emotionally and spiritually . So grounded . Wishing him the best for all his future climbs . Great talk .

[@berfusein]

You can see very clear the difference between the two: first the climber, with the direct experience of fear in his body (he can almost transfer that to the audience with his words) and then the psychologist, with all the technicism and theory about fear, whos words are emotionally empty, and also doesn't seem that she has experience real fear of death at all. Very interesting, thanks for the upload

[@C_R_O_M________]

That's a very good point. I am also a psychologist but I was and still am very physically active and I can relate to what Alex says because of my LIVED experiences. I suspect that she can't. We may be both wrong though and she could be just hiding her emotions in an effort to appear more professional. Nevertheless, she was completely wrong at the very end when Alex asked "is that true?". Armita seems to think that it's all nurture and NO nature, whereas it IS proven that we are hardwired to avoid certain threatening stimuli, like predators, fire, heights, etc, from a very early age and without previous training or learned negative experiences.

[@michelemeriggi]

The big difference is that alex has actually "processed" his thoughts down to understandable concepts, while the thoughts of the psycologist are still very young and "raw", like she barely know what she's saying but hasn't gone deep into the real meaning of her words.

[@whitenoise509]

100% agree with changing fear to excitement. You can train yourself to enjoy the unknown. Every time you conquer your fear and succeed at whatever the activity is you are building a foundation in your psyche for a positive response that feeling.

[@fernandogarciadeleon6292]

Amazing the introspective level of Alex, the way he dissects fear as somebody whose life deppend of his hability to manage it is something that no psicology college can teach.

[@Carpenters_Canvas]

This climb not only brought him to the top of that mountain , it brought him all the way to the top with sensations , glad to have come across him he is a rarity

[@laggeryt7558]

What a wonderful and intelligent discussion. So rare these days, everyone lets everyone else make their point, all of them shine with their questions and answers and surprise, nobody feels the need to create conflict or controversy on stage. It's just a calm and interesting discussion.

[@joleylight300]

What I learned here is, do not argument e with Alex. Here he is sitting on the side answering questions. As always analytical of the situation and having a solid thought out response. The brain on this guy is quite interesting.

[@bernatrafanell1120]

The example of the fear we experiance when geting on a plane made me realize that, in that situation, what keeps us not being extremly afraid due to the high consequence is that we trust the PILOT(he is well trained, hes is an expert), so analogically, alex trust his ABILITIES. So he train his mental confidence stepping out of his confort zone and his phisical abilities by climbing a lot. PD: Sorry for the bad grammar i'm not an english speaker hahah

[@foryourlugsonly]

See I used to love flying, couldn't get enough of it, then I had my daughter. Now, at 35 I have the most intense fear of taking off in a plane. The anxiety and stress will not leave me until we are at cruising altitude. I've put this down to 2 things. 1. I have a fear of my daughter growing up without me. 2. I have an understanding of planes and know that the most crucial times in a flight where things can go wrong are taking off and landing. I have to go through a routine when taking off. Ear plugs in, music full blast and I squeeze a stress ball. Its brutal and I hate it but its stronger than me now

[@HannahSmith-od7df]

Bernat Rafanell your English was really good!!

[@TheElendix]

​@@foryourlugsonly Ok listen bro. Stop being afraid. You have 1 chance out of 103 to die driving your car. when taking a plane its 1 out of 3 billions. You have litteraly 0 reason to be afraid of flying. This is the most secure way of traveling.

[@jaelzion]

It's not just the pilot we trust. We trust every mechanic who has serviced or inspected that plane, the air traffic controllers who ensure planes don't crash into each other, the manufacturer who produced the plane to begin with, etc. We can build that trust because we know planes have been flying for generations now and they rarely crash. So even before we've experienced flying ourselves, we can look at the history of flight and believe that it's relatively safe. And then once we've flown ourselves, we have our own experience to further build our confidence.

[@craigbritton1089]

Confidence in his competence

[@sinokomp]

This was a fountain of wisdom, thank you.

[@FullMetalPJs]

His control of words is just as wonderful as his control of feet and hands.

[@VaibhavSharma-yu3ys]

He is just so humble and mellow 🥺

[@kigge3529]

Alex Honnold is too amazing to live on this planet.

[@andrewsheehy2441]

Alex is a such great ambassador for the sport of climbing - maybe even in the same class as Reinhold Messner, Chris Bonnington and Walter Bonattii. It will be interesting to see if he becomes tempted to venture into the high mountains and what doors he might open if he does.

[@SkaiSharku]

Interesting how relatable a man like he is as a someone who relatively recently started as a solo ultra distance runner. Some really good lessons can be learned from learning to understand risks, being prepared and knowing how far you control your body in connection to how your position is towards life. It won't be throwing your life upside down, it will just add to who you are.

[@nicholsonfile]

If you're looking for viewers to project on to Honnold, you've come to the right place!

[@russellwalker3830]

Interviewer: So is it really scary? Alex: Only when it's really scary haha? Armita: Courage is just an illusion.

[@joaogomes4033]

how you combat fear? EXPERIENCE. how to get experience? COURAGE.

[@realmslayerxx725]

I love listening to this man talk. Hes so real, humble and open to talk about his experiences. I Have a new hero

[@auto-did-act]

Brilliant! That was not long enough; I could have listened to hours of this discussion!!

[@goldenoriolesilverbirch8220]

I don't climb ( old dude ) but I ocasionally watch climbing videos because they are amazing. However, the point I want to make, is that I'm always impressed how articulate, precise ( & humble ) these great climbers are when discussing their achievements. I suspect that their deep linguistic analysis of their work is not unrelated to the physical & mental skills required for their successful completion.

[@ThatHoodlum19]

Man, that mask fear with excitement is spot on. Makes me think of the night before a job interview where you go between fearful/nervous to excited and back n fourth. Crazy good explanation and helps the simple man, like me, understand the mindset of a free solo climber.

[@stillblazzinit]

At some point you have to just experience it in order to learn more about fear, something they both can agree on but how you handle it is something general science and expert “experiencers” will disagree on always. Great discussion.

[@LostMines]

I have had a huge fear of heights but over the last two years managed to over come it , I now go abseiling down deep mines and love it.

[@Biomirth]

Armita wasn't specific enough with differentiating humans from 'more hardwired' animals. Humans are also hardwired and heights / snakes / big animals are just a few of them, but she's also too hard on animals: Many animals can adapt away from their instinctual (or even learned) responses to fear stimuli. The point here is that humans are the best at this in terms of the range of adaptation, but not necessarily even the speed (# of experiences required).

[@VCthaGOATdunker]

Same story here. I still aint fully comfortable with it but I can manage the small amount of fear I have left.

[@hazardeur]

@@Biomirth isn't it funny that one of the best traits of humans (fast adaptation) is also one of their biggest weak points? Just look how quickly so many people adapt to unhealthy lives and habits that our modern lifestyle brings with it. I guess my children should study leg surgery if they want a secure income lol. These days nobody ever walks anywhere.

[@pmberkeley]

I wish they would revisit this discussion in light of the pandemic that came shortly after this went up. What an important bookend to this discussion.

[@healingtouch22]

Even though Alex may have a reputation of lacking fear, one can argue that intense fear and insecurity may be what has driven Alex to increase his comfort "bubble" even beyond the comfort realm of most people.

[@jaiso434]

you do have a point. thats what driving me forwards as well.

[@fendermon]

There's an original thought. @Sasang

[@alexxela754]

It’s so interesting to listen to Honnold! He’s clearly a master of fighting fear. He does it in his sleep without thinking of it I think. That’s why his amygdala is also sleeping.

[@joncoish]

I find him so impressive to listen to. It's obvious he takes this very seriously and does everything he possibly can to reduce any risk he can.

[@nandanm3826]

Great. Thank you for sharing.

[@dagabriel9416]

As a climber, the love overpowers and obliterates the fear. From this comes enormous power and focus. It’s not cockiness but mastery of self in all aspects.

[@diS6005]

Control and mastery to cope with fear "I spent a lot of time afraid" Reframe fear as excitement 10:56

[@dragonslayer31415900]

What an incredible panel! I was kinda worried about putting Alex with an expert and it getting very uncomfortable, but it is such a respectable, intelligent conversation they have here. Props to the organizers!

[@jimscanoe]

"...putting Alex with an expert..."-Alex is *the expert* who knows more about fear than possibly anyone.

[@radiochango]

​@@jimscanoeexactly, if anything he was real and fun, not pompous and pretentious like the other 2

[@samuellp1146]

they are trying discuss what makes guys like him tick. Alex has been tested to have a high tolerance for fear by scientists and he knows exactly what they are setting him up for. Remember, people (especially women) are amazed at what drives men like these to risk their lives doing stuff like this and wonder if their crazy, Alex is going to down play that.

[@jeremysmith9694]

Give em ten more minutes and then more they would argue.

[@jaydenlangmead9667]

He's attained mastery, no question. but, don't fall into the trap of thinking it's training alone. The guy is a almost the embodiment of an outlier, hes naturally fearless, and also seems to have a whole range of traits associated with Asperger's while also being extremely athletic. Those factors alone are extremely rare.

[@gracehealy7074]

He does actually feel fear. However to him it’s exciting since his other emotions do not respond things that excite the average joe

[@strixin79]

What i love about Alex is that how humble and calm he is. You can truly see he is a man that has looked worst fear human can know right in to the eye and beat it. He doesn't have to prove anything.

[@RobertoNeumann]

Alex is so clear in his thinking that is why I love to listen to him

[@mariovarga2892]

The two speakers perfectly complemented each other, amazing talk!

[@silentnature1079]

I admire Alex for his courage and modesty and values. It's inhuman all he can do ! But I fear for him because during a free solo climbing you're not able to manage everything ( a strong wind that starts suddenly, a tempest, the need to pee, a strong headache etc), a very unexpected or subtle detail can change all ...

[@graybryan9521]

I'd like to hear Alex talk about complacency sometime. It occurs in every "adventure" sport or activity where at first you are naturally very focused and careful. After some experience you are at ease, after a lot more experience you start to know that there is a lot that you can't know and this leads to longer-term survival. However, in that need to keep fear in its place you can become complacent because you are now used to being in that extreme environment, nothing bad has happened and you can let your guard down a little. There is a point however, sometimes, where you treat that environment as non-life threatening and that's the complacency and it's easy to make stupid mistakes since all it takes is one to have a very bad day. It's also a downside of learning by rote. You are just on autopilot at times and maybe just one little thing changes and you don't notice and adjust and you can make a big mistake. I would like to hear Alex address what his experiences have been in that regard. Many good climbers have died, for instance, rappelling off the end of a rope on a not very difficult route knowing full well that you should always check for a safety knot, knowing full well that it's possible that the rope didn't go down as far as they expect it to go and knowing full well that others have died that way. Yet, it happens every year.

[@KZRock]

That first bit about becoming at ease after being in an extreme environment constantly, I can recall that in my experience skateboarding, I remember the first time I dropped into 4ft quarter pipes and the pure hesitation and "frozen body" to commit and now that I've been skating for 6 years, I can drop into 9 to 10 ft drop in's and not flutter a single time and even more so to just think of it as my speed I'll need to do what is actually scary, but yes that sheer amount of time and practice and going to park to park and not every quarter pipe/bowl/pool is shaped the same as far as how much transition to vert ratio so having the experience of dropping in more vert than transition is quite scary but if you live that a fair amount of times, when you go to skate mostly transition, it's just that much easier and "safer". Sorry to ramble like that but it's just super applicable to skateboarding in every aspect, dropping into ramps is literally a fraction of what it can apply to for skating, if you read this far... some examples lol so you have going down stairs, handrails, fliptricks of many variations, rotations of every degree, weight distribution such as manuals or leaning for longboarding or skating in general, stances like whether you're left foot or right foot forward and training to do your opposite stance, like Alex said, for skating you skate different parks and different dimensions and obstacles that broaden your safety net of experience and street skating being the most adaptive form being how rough is the ground? Speed? Run up? Runaway? Pedestrians? Not every spot is built the same, you may have uphill landing with any variation of the before questions. also most importantly, HOW TO FALL, cannot stress enough to learn how to stop riding your board safely to prevent injuries or greatly lessen injuries. Hope this helped and possibly gave some different insight on what all hobbies you have a thought of on the outside but when someone who does it can break it down like this, not saying I'm capable of that but this is my experience.

[@KZRock]

To answer the second, no matter your experience for skateboarding, pros still fall... a lot, all it takes is your body not translating the movements you've envisioned in your mind as you're doing it to cause you to eat it, if you don't allow yourself 100 percent focus and not overthinking in the moment, you're gonna do a lot of falling, it's about being present but not too present at the same time, a real balance that you fight mentally

[@sendnoodles5437]

I’m not sure there is a way to eliminate oversights completely but it’s a matter of running through contingencies - altho that can be pretty hard when you’re in a situation where any misstep could be your last

[@abenicolaas]

The systematic way of explaining that Armita uses is so clear and satisfying.

[@bajultamang7838]

What an amazing Human Being! Love this convo.

[@russellwalker3830]

There are many situations in life where your ability to control your fear directly influences how dangerous the encounter is. Free soloing is certainly one. I feel like this is the entire crux of what the video should be about given the title. It's not about statistics, incapacitation or common vs rare instances of risk. It's about the psychology of fear or so I thought and how it could itself mean the difference between life an death on the extreme end of the spectrum. This is what really fascinates people when they watch or read about people they revere for their feats of courage. This is a human (animal too) thing. And that's why we all clicked on this video.

[@MrThenry1988]

Your perception is self inflicted fear. Because you don't know what he is doing.

[@videogroove]

This talk was great.The "Doer" vs (for lack of a better word) "Thinker," "Applied vs Academic," Real Street vs Wall Street. Both are necessary though there is a difference, One is challenging his fears while the other is writing about how it feels

[@Catwoman1464]

I believe the antidote to fear is gratefulness. When you are grateful for what you have, you can't physically feel fear.

[@lantzkeefer6]

I really enjoyed the insite of both the Dr. and Alex, I could not agree more with almost everything that was said👍

[@captainleabea4197]

Alex is amazing. But also something that is amazing is how they have analysed his brain in comparison to the average. His fear factor is so less.

[@nolan1187]

Saw stuff about Free Solo on KZbin. Was about to buy it but had it on Disney Plus. Just watched Free Solo today. Watching all of Alex's material on KZbin. Love this guy

[@anthoneysmtih3370]

awsome talk I have liked Alex Honnold for a few years but this psychologist is concise and easy to understand. A very difficult topic to tackle but worth recognizing.

[@Rada6ast]

Its seems to me that Alex felt very relaxed and almost a sense of relief having so much understanding from the other two participate when talking about the risk factors etc. I guess he's otherwise approached with the opposite and people just shaking there heads. I think its a really good way of thinking and to get out of the conditioning the norms of society have put us in. Through evaluation and practice we we overcome alot of obstacles and alot of fears in life. Its really inspiring for sure! I felt really inspired by another climber, Dean Potter and I still feel this emptiness inside me after he died in 2015. I really wish for Alex to be safe and to continue to inspire us for many years to come. We really need these role models in our lifes ❤

[@RuffKutz]

Alex climbs mountain: I have control of my body climbing a mountain. Alex goes for drive: I have no control of this mountain of cars.

[@ihatewhatisaw]

He’s the most down to earth guy i know

[@hakihak1408]

The idea of thinking about The negative possible outcomes pro-climbing so you dont think of them for The first time while climbing is just phenomenol and admirable thinking

[@kevinmaestroful]

Really just came here to hear Alex talk

[@boogieboss]

One person is study life and other one living life.

[@phoenixhires4685]

I got a sense that he has way more knowledge and experience that her, and she was trying to keep up. Several times she reiterated exactly what he said. In my opinion, this is a good example of why experience in life wins out over book smarts.

[@earlgrey2130]

But he also said that he confirms what she just said. It goes both ways. And they repeat each others messages because they talk about it from an experiential and a scientific perspective and end up agreeing. I think "book smarts" are equally important to experience. Only when you have both will they turn into wisdom.

[@boogieboss]

exactly!

[@youknowwho9247]

The thing with personal experience is that it doesn't scale. What you've experienced tells you something about yourself, in the specific circumstances that you've been in, and that's it. Scientific enquiry goes far beyond that.

[@deeminor6565]

The psychologist hits the nail on the head..we trust so.many different dynamics in our daily existence

[@MrSamdogz]

She’s so well spoken!

[@jimiprice6182]

The guy is fearless, respect him very much for what he has accomplished.

[@MrThenry1988]

Fear didn't bring him here. The ones who fear brought him here.

[@skrux9707]

@@MrThenry1988 Ooooh, I like that!

[@jamesharris9217]

You could offer anyone on earth $1 billion to do what Honnold has done and in 1 year you’d still have a billion in your bank. There is literally no one else on earth that can do what Honnold has done. And he’s 20 years ahead of every other free solo climbers in the world.

[@viaredzagames]

JG Harris i hope it doesnt stop there. I hope more people will get the courage to achieve what Mr Alex has done so that humans as a whole may evolve more and achieve more outrageous feats .

[@will-fx7yq]

That’s a broad assumption lol I bet there’s a lot of climbers that don’t have Wi-Fi to upload videos or have possibility to travel to climbs with recognition. but I agree with the stentiment. He’s an extremely rare talent.

[@samshorto5433]

There's dozens of climbers who could do what Alex did, if the reward was big enough. There is just nobody else right now for whom the reward of having done it outweighs the risks of trying. Chuck a billion dollars into the mix and I guarantee someone would do it the first time the conditions were right.

[@julian.kollataj]

A really insightful conversation. It seems like they missed out on bringing up one word: courage.

[@buddacafe]

Alex Honnold is such a great inspiration to me.

[@reedmelicher8658]

I love Alex's awkwardness that he seems to power through. It inspires me to do the same.

[@jakecalabrese]

He was not awkward to me... He was just real... To me... Nice to see...

[@BadDubII]

@@patricknyman727 Looks 100% comfortabe to me

[@jagutichsachma]

He got more comfortable with the amount of media tours he has done. As much as you can be when you are at least a little bit on the spectrum.

[@dvdcrr77]

Absolutely not awkward Absolutely Alex though.

[@rogerelzenga4465]

"Adventure begins where the outcome of the journey is uncertain" ~Roger Elzenga.

[@happywednesday6741]

@24:00 I like the excitement shift perspective on fear. The other thing I like to think is that you really don't have any other choice other than to live, the only alternative is not living, and not living is clearly the wrong choice so you have to continue with your goals regardless.

[@voice_of_change]

Excellent interview with human insights into fear, it's part of life but can be managed through training, planning and visualizing. Very enjoyable.

[@NoahJGriego]

lol the body language in this entire exchange is FABULOUS

[@gregcekot8875]

Noah Griego can you elaborate?I’m interested in what you are seeing.

[@esoteric404]

i definitely drew some conclusions about their body language also. i was checking the comments also but no one had commented specifically on what i was thinking..... especially apparent at the start of the talk

[@cleeks5549]

Is it something one of y'all can actually use words to describe or is it just all too much

[@missblackwood]

@@cleeks5549 🤣 apparently not

[@Albisriede]

What a great, informative talk. Armita, well-grounded in her field. And of course Alex superbly well-grounded in his field. Unlike some other interviews in other topics, the pleasant surprise here was that there were no 'but this or but that'. It seemed all present were there to learn more. To me it's more proof that the more distracted we are, the less we get out of life, and that focusing on specific fields of interest brings more joy and better rewards. That Alex is able to relate that to a larger audience is an incredible gift. Climb on ;- )

[@GuyKershtein]

I become calm when Alex speaks