Alien Covenant - Playing God | Renegade Cut

[@ZachsMind]

"To create is divine. To reproduce is human." Man Ray.

[@yensid4294]

I would hope vetting a planet for colonization would also include insuring that human contact would not be detrimental to any indigineous life on the planet which seems to be overlooked in many scifi movies that depict human exploration of space. We would be the invasive species in that scenario, wouldn't we?

[@KeflYeen]

Ideally, that would be the case. But honestly, has humanity ever cared about being the invasive species? We really should.

[@GotoMaki4Micah]

humans love to think of themselves as self sufficient, but in the grand scheme we are parasites and lay waste. we or the powers that be structuring civilization dont want humans to live harmoniously with the environment. i dont understand people who say tree hugger, with out trees there would be no life.

[@GringoXalapeno]

Wasn’t that the case in avatar

[@danielludwig647]

The Alien universe has explicitly addressed that notion, especially with the cyberpunk roots of the first couple films and the way companies like Weyland Yutani operate. Things are not pretty in the setting as far as their blunt disregard for ecology. It’s implied (and later explicitly described in recent novels and comics) that the colonial marines basically act at the behest of private industrial interests and regularly exterminate alien fauna that’s either dangerous or incompatible with humans. Remember when the marines in *Aliens* complain about their mission being “another bug hunt?” They outright fight and exterminate any species that’s deemed undesirable to the colonialist goals of the mega corporations. “Vetting” in the Alien universe probably is only concerned with how suitable the planet is for habitation, terraforming, and exploitation. No regard for the environments they’re settling in.

[@lamecasuelas2]

Hot take: i like Covenant and Prometheus a lot

[@TheChanellebelle]

Same!

[@VonPetters]

Based

[@ahhh2ndchannel133]

Me too there so underated

[@RedVelvetUnderground333]

Same

[@Gemini_Samura1]

They are excellent films.

[@nerdommeetsboy]

I'm one of the few people who actually really liked Covenant

[@josh420masterB]

There's a few of us out there, dude. You are not alone.

[@danieljameson7015]

There's dozens of us!

[@Velocelot]

I loved it!!

[@josephhoffman2992]

Considering that this movie has good reviews, we are not few

[@DJRitty]

It's more fun than prometheus - which is beauitful but dull. Covenant only sucks at the end when they just do the same thing as the other movies. This video was made a robot, robot, robot...

[@lorelaiivisuc3748]

It's a warning for humanity to be careful when search something without previous knowledge.

[@curiousworld7912]

As a believer, I'm still very skeptical of those who think God speaks or directs them personally. I think what they imagine is a validation of a decision or opinion, already present - whether conscious or subconscious. I don't believe that God is micromanaging our existence. I do believe in the often-randomness of said existence. Personal choices and intentions, as well as outside forces which are unforeseen or uncontrollable, are responsible for many possible outcomes.

[@Javert2012]

Well, I remember an idea saying that you can't put God in a image, i.e. you can't describe him properly or make him predictable in our understanding, although you do have a point that's it's important for us to consider what we believe, to think about it in order to know know where our principles and loyalties lies. I believe in Jesus Christ, my Savior, and relation is very important in this process of unterstanding and choosing in this world.

[@Khuratokh]

`+

[@themonk2288]

Its Faith, But inside you, is a universal connection fro the restbof life around you, I've always felt that was god, not a Conscious, but that instinct that connects you to notice Birds flying or feel wind and note temperature, and love and wonder and imagination and when you need that strength to Go on, not when you want it God will speak, because you need it,

[@aaron2709]

So you simply use the word "God" as a description of what you don't understand.... the 'whatever' that started the big bang.

[@lordlossize]

i dont mean any rudeness or offence when i say this, but arent you disproven by the bible saying that god approached several humans in the past, thus proving he micromanages our existence? or do you not believe in the bible but believe in the concept of a god creating everything but then sitting back and watching what happens?

[@devilinav7494]

I was gratified to find your thoughtful analysis of this film. None of my acquaintances seemed to enjoy Covenant, but I personally found it to be memorable, albeit depressing. It certainly "stayed with me" more than most other current examples of the genre I've seen lately. Thanks for another great episode. :)

[@guthrie_the_wizard]

I enjoyed Prometheus and Covenant. Would love to see more!

[@kaitlynatown]

The soft tone of your voice on this video was very relaxing! Great analysis as usual.

[@starvalkyrie]

Every Ridley Scott movie starts with a weapons grade stupid decision for people apparently smart enough for space travel.

[@badgerello]

It’s taken for granted that all 5 Thomas Aquinas arguments are examples of reductio ad absurdum… and so is the plot of this film.

[@ashleighcartwright5186]

In fact as an aside This movie actually stopped me committing suicide in the short term. That is something Made me really think about me and who I am My darkest thoughts

[@slawdog8]

You forgot how David slayed the giant (the Engineers)

[@runeofnoweyr]

I wanted to pick a video with less traffic to send a message to you. Don't have a Twitter and don't really know a better way to contact. I just wanted to tell you "Thank you", for your videos. The first one that really caught me was on 'Left Behind'. After a childhood/adolescence/young adulthood of WASPy upbringing, it finally gave me the tools to break some deep fears that would take way too long to get into. Thank you for putting into words the things about politics and 'Merican society in general that have always made me bristle. Thank you for just plain being a solid point in this storm of spun news and media confusion. For giving me a means to think critically. Thank you for keeping up the fight when many of us don't have the spoons.

[@Jemini4228]

I think intentions make a big difference morally. That's why manslaughter and murder have different statuses in law. That being said, Aurum is very reckless for the reasons you pointed out and ultimately holds the responsibility for the spreading of David's Xenomorphs.

[@Jemini4228]

Me too. As you said, he seemed to truly care for his charges and feel the weight of his responsibility. I guess the pathos we might feel for his religious persecution complex is undercut when he does the very thing that he thought the higher ups assumed he would do. Take a risk based not on science but a notion that fate has put the promised land in their path. At least get them to wear helmets and analyse the atmosphere and environment, dude!

[@aliray1165]

No......DAVID bears ultimate responsibility for the spreading of his Xenomorphs. If we went by your rationale, anyone who had ever made any relevant action in the course of humanity could be fair game for the blame you place. The first woman who ever gave birth ultimately was responsible for the spread of thee Xenos. No, it’s David, and his masterful manipulative techniques that make people do the things they do. He’s the one who caused it.

[@aarondrake69]

I feel bad for Oram. In the original alien, the signal they received was a warning. In covenant, it was literally a human transmitting a human song. Everyone talks shit, but I get his reasoning. Why wear helmets? They literally just recieved a transmission if a human being broadcasting from that planet. To be fair, I can't tally argue with the belief (or at least the interpretation) of these events being miraculous. Your ship is stopped by a outside, cosmic event. Your superior is tragically killed in the event. You then pick up a message from a nearby world that you wouldn't have otherwise if this event hadn't stopped the vessel, and it's if a person and you're leading a colonization mission. Faith is misunderstood. People see it as blindly just going for whatever, but tal real faith is analyzing synchronicity, and "coincidences." Coincudence in parenthesis, because, yeah, there are random occurrences for sure. But when enough pile up and strangely point to a similar theme, then that's where faith arises.

[@ryanbenson4610]

Why did David make the facehuggers? Isn’t the germ or pollen version of the xenomorph a better way to spread them?

[@kwarra-an]

They're grosser, scarier, more symbolic, and therefore cooler

[@ArtofLunatik]

He wasnt satisfied with the Protomorph. The facehugger i think is another way he wanted to tweak the organism. Using eggs from Shaw he also inserted a reproduction ability which tbe protomorphs seem to lack, all they do is attack, they never try to reproduce, they dont build eggs or impregnate any host, all they do is kill. At the end of the movie it also implies david wants to tweek it even more to make a queen, which again would facilitate reproduction of the species.

[@giovannig2278]

@@ArtofLunatik correct

[@curtislitchfield1378]

Late to the party here, but I enjoyed this video a lot. I find these themes are what connect the prequels to the original trilogy for me. I know how divisive Alien 3 was, but I always saw the more major narrative weaved through them was wrestling with either divine intervention (or the faith that it exists) and the calculated logic of understanding that the Universe simply is, and has no agenda. You can think of the alien like a piece of tofu. Tofu basically becomes whatever you flavor it as in the dish. The alien is any number of things and symbolizes certain anthropomorphic concepts depending on your perspective (or the perspective of the protagonists of the film). It's known that Alien intentionally played with our fears of sexual violation. I was a mugger in the dark, it may or may not have literally raped Lambert when it killed her. It was motivated by violence and biological imperative. Aliens worked on a couple of different levels. Quite simply, it was war. The drones were soldiers, but then you also have the narrative of Ripley being the chaste mother (Mary anybody?), having chosen Newt as her surrogate daughter (this works whether or not you see the scene where we learn Amanda is long dead), and her war is with the alien queen, who also uses her fertility as a weapon to destroy the universe. The chaste vs. the harlot perhaps. It all comes to a culmination for me in Alien 3. The prisoners and the warden think that the introduction of Ripley is throwing off the balance that the men have had for years, and people start dying as a result. It's not played up as much but the symbolism is there. The alien is a demon, or the devil, and it is there because Ripley tempts them all, it is punishment for their sins, or rather for a regression of their desires. But the truth is, throughout the trilogy, the alien simply IS. And does what it does. Ripley realizes this when she sees her death looming. The death of Hicks and Newt is not bad writing or a slap in the face to the fans, it just proves that this universe is cold, and nobody is driving the ship. The universe doesn't care what happens to you, and the Alien simply does what it does. It's not a rapist, a whore, or a demon. And nobody is covered by plot armor. Even Ripley. (or Shaw, or Daniels)

[@cck9053]

I'd like to see chickenmorph in the next movie.

[@swathipathange1726]

Liked ur analysis with an intellectual historical background and connecting the dots.

[@jvondd]

I hated this movie, but I really enjoyed your analysis.

[@GOGOLH]

It's much better on second viewing.

[@mostlynew]

I’m sick to death of Michael Fassbender’s treacherous character. Ruined both AC and Prometheus for me.

[@themonk2288]

Note they kept the dead bodies and the captain was upset about the Body being ejected

[@lorumonicromworldslayer4131]

Like Prometheus, I was resistant to liking this movie, but eventually it won me over. It is an example of what finer space sci-fi films can be. I found, surprisingly, it didn't detract from the experience of re-viewing the original Alien series, in spite of the canon changes. One could even go so far as to hypothesize that David recreated the original alien, as part of some core programming, instead of regarding him as the literal creator of the original alien. He seems to be recreating the genetic development of what the Engineers have already accomplished before.

[@mostlynew]

Lorumonicrom Worldslayer - I can’t imagine why Ridley Scott and his writers centered their storytelling around a sociopathic android. I guess it was because they could. Anyway, David character ruined both stories for me.

[@arthurdossantos6826]

I hated the movie, but the themes were really good, in the end. Bad movie, good character study. Also, the planet they went wasn't an Engineer planet, just another species created by the engineers. It's pretty clean when you look at them.

[@Desertfox92308]

Definitely not Engineers. More primitive version with no technology.

[@lubdub1990]

I love your analogy on the subject because there is so much to discuss about this movie ! Thank you for your insight 🔥😊

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

No Ozymandias references :(

[@deadlandplacebo1695]

"when I was a child I met the devil" is one of the sickest lines ever

[@alexATG9]

Hello. I'm French, and even if I'm good at English, I was wondering if English subtitles would be possible, to understand the video better? Very nice video from what I understood :) (and nice rich movie).

[@dude_8434]

David 8 is loyal to Sir Peter Weyland to the end. It's only after he dies that David does his own thing.

[@FourthExile]

I'm not sure whether the tragic events of the film are a result of Oram's blind faith, or bad writing. Did Oram neglect conducting what I would imagine to be a procedural risk assessment prior to landing or did the writers just cut a scene? Can Oram be blamed bc of plot holes/theatrical licence? Or, perhaps, the crew didn't wear helmets/spacesuits bc Ridley Scott wanted a different art style this time around? Personally, I think Oram is just a bad leader, with a side serving of blind faith.

[@wotan10950]

Wagner’s Entry of the Gods into Valhalla, from Das Rheingold, is on the surface pompous and triumphant. But by the end of Wagner’s 4-opera cycle, the same gods who were once triumphant, have then met their downfall in Gotterdammerung, the Twilight of the Gods. Is this Ridley Scott’s intention? To show that David will eventually meet his downfall?

[@aliray1165]

Brilliant analysis.

[@TrenchMan93]

Loved this movie as a believer I loved it too. Great discussion video!

[@bl687]

I enjoyed it as well, in my opinion it was a return to form of the horror of the deep unknown of outer space. It's just ironic that the horror found is of human origin. Classic sci fi.

[@shadowpapito]

Thanks, Good Video!

[@TheDrivebynerf]

Good points

[@Appalachiosaurus22]

I still don't like these movies, but you've convinced me that they aren't completely bad.

[@bb1111116]

The video's well done exploration of the ideas from "Alien Covenant" is part of the reason why I enjoyed the film. I like thought provoking movies. * The motivation to believe in God, to have a covenant, to be God's messenger, to be Lord/a god to oneself, is fascinating imo. 2. Why do people take unnecessary risks, especially in science fiction movies? In serious science fiction, since "War of the Worlds", the concept of alien pathogens is known, yet it's usually ignored. Until this movie.

[@KhemistryIBMOR]

An interesting bit of philosophy

[@brynnplant]

I can't even remotely tell if this movie looks good or terrible

[@brickjamesOG]

Doesn't change the fact that I love this movie but now that I think about it, I wonder how the film would have played out if they wore helmets. 🤷‍♂️

[@aarondrake69]

I feel bad for Oram. In the original alien, the signal they received was a warning. In covenant, it was literally a person transmitting a human song. Everyone talks shit, but I get his reasoning. Why wear helmets? They literally just recieved a transmission of a human being broadcasting from that planet. To be fair, I can't really argue with the belief (or at least the interpretation) of these events being miraculous. Your ship is stopped by a outside, cosmic event. Your superior is tragically killed in the event. You then pick up a message from a nearby world that you wouldn't have otherwise if this event hadn't stopped the vessel, and it's of a person and you're leading a colonization mission. Faith is misunderstood. People see it as blindly just going for whatever, but real faith is analyzing synchronicity, and "coincidences." Coincudence in parenthesis, because, yeah, there are random occurrences for sure. But when enough pile up and strangely point to a similar theme, person, or place, then that's where faith arises.

[@kieranm1167]

This is not a bad film.

[@DaMaster1983]

1) david loses his hand, an indication of hitler.. who had a problem with one of his hands.. 2) in the final scene david walks like hitler with his hands behind his back looking left and right like he is checking his soldiers..

[@rickyschulte5488]

It wasn’t great, but a lot better then most gave it credit for

[@aarondrake69]

Oram gets a lot of flak and I don't get it. He made a questionable decision but it was fuelled by the crews uneasiness of going back into the cryo pods after the captains malfunctioned. Plus I think a lot of people over look the fact that they got a transmission...a human one of a human song (not just a random sos or broadcast like in the original). That is pretty good evidence that the planet is habitable (if there's a human broadcast stands to reason that the person is living there) and probably contributes to the crew not wearing helmets. Faith aside I don't think Oram is the idiot people make him out to be. All available knowledge was pointing to a habitable planet with some sort of human entity/technology. I mean right after that kinda tragedy and weariness to go into machines that just killed one of them and then a nearby planet pops up with human properties. Pretty miraculous, no pun intended. Makes you wonder if David or the company didn't manufacture that neutrino burst as that was quite coincidental. Plus everybody praises Daniel's and Tennesee's intellect and yet they knew Walter confronted David and that they were for all intent and purpose twins and didn't think to make sure it was really Walter when David emerged from the temple. Especially after witnessing him cut his hair. But heat of the moment I guess. Poor Oram trusted the android as he didn't know androids could be capable of harming humans and paid the price. Funny how David chose religious people to bear his creations, Shaw and Oram, doesn't necessarily portray believers the best light lol.

[@eduardo_corrochio]

If David is an artificial person created by humans then it's curious as to why he was made with wrinkles and loose skin--- unless he was based physically on someone over age 30. Of course I am saying this only half seriously; there's a lot to pick at and fuss over with the Ridley Scott monster movies. But clearly the last two installments were quite thought provoking in their stories and in the questions they raised about mankind and creation and the universe. I imagine it all gets a little too heady for some movie audience members who simply want a slasher film featuring an alien creature.

[@Velocelot]

I really liked the movie. It works so well in the franchise.

[@jasonkerest394]

I really like this analysis and Alien: Covenant. To me, David is both the main protagonist and villain of this Prequel series. Sure there are some who think that the characters motivations are stupid, but are laid out wonderfully is this analysis that their motivations were horribly misguided. In a way, this series has 4 villainous factions; Weyland Yutani, The Engineers, The Xenomorphs, and David. This movie frames itself not on the colonists who are simply just moving meat targets at this point in the series, but on David and his thoughts and motivations to slay his creators. I can only image if there is a 3rd film in the Alien: Prequel series David will be slain be his creations: the Xenomorphs.

[@donaghb7307]

Anyone think he sounded quite tired in this video?

[@donaghb7307]

Renegade Cut good to hear. It was more of a concern than a criticism.

[@lsporter88]

I think Thomas was right and logical.

[@mostlynew]

St Thomas Aquinas makes the natural enough mistake for the time, that God is the only power or force capable of explaining what we have come to understand as the natural physical sciences. And yet, many scientist are religious, or at least allow an honorable place for mysticism or the super natural in the order of things.

[@agentblackacid]

You seem to have more of a grip on the themes than Ridley Scott and his team did. Maybe if you had written this movie based on these concepts, it wouldn't have sucked?

[@evanus]

... What? If the filmmakers didn't have a grip on these themes, you couldn't make an analysis like this in the first place.

[@WHR17]

Prometheus was a masterpiece, a flawed one but a solid film. Covenant was a huge disappointment, that devolves into mindless action.

[@TheChanellebelle]

I wasn’t quite as disappointed with Covenant (still found it entertaining and I rewatch it occasionally), but I absolutely agree that Prometheus was a masterpiece and I am still shocked when I remember that barely anyone agrees.

[@luisa.belmares5716]

The theological themes for sure are interesting. The real problem with this movie and its predecessor is the way these themes are narrated and raised. Everything is too focused on the human being and his creations, instead of a cosmic vision more bigger and closer to the horror of lovecraft concepts in wich the first movie is based on. Ridley Scott is too obsesive with tell his own stories and thoughts, so he neglects the rest of the script and the basic elements of the saga. This results in incoherent prequels with flat characters, stupid situations and the most important, in a betrayal of the mithology behind Giger's creature.

[@thefollowingisatest4579]

Hey so I realize this is way late but I finally watched Covenant and Oram also makes the decision based on what literally the entire rest of the crew wanted (save Daniels), and is absolutely not responsible for the lack of safety measures. I realize that you leapt off of the film to discuss the concepts you wanted to, but you using him as illustration doesn't work with the text.

[@MrFTW733]

your voice is awfully more quiet than previous videos

[@Teachan]

Personally, I wouldn't say "quiet" as much as "calm". You sound almost... sad here. Not implying anything, by the way. Just an observation.

[@Teachan]

Well... fair enough. :P

[@maxheadshot3287]

God loves John Denver, pffffff. Or does he love madness ?

[@ronaldoarcher4522]

Loved covenant

[@alm5267]

God did exist ; David was there.

[@mikebear7636]

in the Alien movies they gave us Ripley, someone to root for, in these new movies they gave us David and kill off the heroines, epic failure. Ridley needs to stop that, I wish David Fincher would direct the next Alien movie, he would get it right.

[@GotoMaki4Micah]

i notice that. they gave shaw a lot to do. the newest girl barely did anything. she lost her boyfriend in the start of the movie. lost walter? at the end. it was about david making creatures when there where already plants and spores that spread the pathogen in the first place?

[@MoshTMA]

Well, they aren't typical Hollywood stories. Elizabeth Shaw saved Earth convincing Captain Janek to stop the Juggernaut ship but subsequently made the mistake of fixing the decapitated David, and she payed the price and never gets the answers she was searching for... Daniels is able to disappoint David by killing two of his creations but is unable to save the Covenant. David gets the last laugh, but technically Daniels' story is incomplete as she isn't killed on screen. And listen, Ridley doesn't care if we don't have someone to root for. He wanted to make a horror film with Covenant... Ridley Scott literally said "I wanted to scare the shit out of people" with the film. And do you really think Ridley Scott's mission with the original ALIEN was to get the audience to root for Ripley? It wasn't... in fact, he wanted to kill off Ripley at the end of the film but the studio protested.

[@flavorflov6519]

This is probably way too trivial to be much of any concern to you and you might even find this to be a strange nitpicky comment, but I personally miss the simpler titles in your videos like (movie title - Renegade Cut). That and your attitude with commissions added to the objective/neutral feeling (or tone?) in your videos, which I really love and, in my opinion, set you apart from the other video essayists. For example, say, Kaptain Kristian's videos makes me feel like he's trying to sell/convince me to like something he likes in this really authoritative way like I'm supposed to like it vs. when I watch your videos, despite me not liking the movie itself, I am able to understand and appreciate the film with what it tries to go for, or understand why a film may be problematic despite enjoying the film itself at one point. Again, it's a none issue, your video title "aesthetics" are still good since I'm already going to continue watching your videos. Not telling you to do anything, in fact, we're looking forward to you making more great videos. This was more just me getting this off my chest. Probably wasn't fair to compare you to KK, since you guys discuss different things using different styles, he makes great video essays too. So yeah, keep doing you, Leon!

[@1badjesus]

FANTASTIC ANALYSIS..shame film an Ridley's "vision" for franchise is nonsensical; how did David create Xenomorphs when eggs on Alien ship 1979 were THOUSANDS of years old??

[@maxheadshot3287]

Should be bad and sloppy writing philosophically analyzed ? Has garbage a philosophy ?

[@DaMaster1983]

1) i didnt like in the movie that it began with tragic .. already making the movie atmosphere negative .. 2) i didnt like that last alien who entered the ship in mysterious way with no explanation.. 3) many things no to like in this movie.. but still i always like alien movies great work by you r side

[@kingofthegundam7974]

I don't like this movie, but this is a good vid.

[@zacharybryant9881]

Great video. I feel alone in my enjoyment of both Prometheus and Covenant so It's good to hear someone's analysis when they also enjoy it. They definitely aren't perfect by any means, but I think they fit the original film quite well.

[@andrebrynkus2055]

I did like this movie and felt that it was the best in the series since Cameron's Aliens - which really wasn't difficult. I found David's obsession with trying to create the perfect life to be interesting but it was very disappointing to see him steal Walter's place. Considering that even Brent Spinner was comparing David to Data after Prometheus it was blatantly obvious to any viewers that David would replace Walter . At least try harder than stealing from Star Trek that everyone has seen.

[@riseagainstfb]

If Prometheus and covenant are looking to portray God then Ridley Scott was the devil ... cuz he just screwed the fans from getting any more alien movies... even if they reboot now it would fail the fans of the original time line ... so sad

[@a_stranger_loop]

This comment is for engagement.

[@hokum4438]

*✞✞✞* OMG! God led me to this video! 😇 🙏

[@ashleighcartwright5186]

The movie is a super intelligent movie Loads going on Challenging and thought provoking regarding our future, ai future, biblical truths and lies. Truths hidden before your eyes Such a clever movie like Prometheus. I honestly think fox/Disney fox should just give Scott a blank canvas and budget to make his universe and as fans we should just go along with the ride. A lore to the universe challenging difficult situations is important. We can have alien films independent of this which may help fund Ridley Scott. Let someone make monster horror movies about the alien set in the future or post alien Leave Scott to build the world. Please He won't ever see this and my idea is irrelevant in the great scheme of things however I enjoy these clever films and don't really care if it has a big bad in it ... As long as the story leaves me challenged I'm smart, I.Q of around 165-168 Really low E.Q however I connect with these movies