Allan Holdsworth Trio - The Sixteen Men Of Tain - Warsaw 1998

"The Sixteen Men Of Tain"
Warsaw Summer Jazz Days 1998-06-19
Great song and great solo created by great Allan Holdsworth.
drums - Gary Novak
bass - Dave Carpenter

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Personally I think 16 Men Of Tain was Allan’s best album. Very refined and sophisticated.

[@allancerf9038]

Agree.

[@jimmythebold589]

gary and dave are his best rhythm section. and i say that as a HUGE fan of jeff berlin, chad wackerman and esp. gary husband. but as far ast trios go, you can't beat dave on bass, with his chords and single note lines. novak is trump's most technical, and most musical drummer. his dynamics are better than gary's , who loved to play loud. gary told me that allan loved to be buried by the drummer, i think it's part of his self deprecative nature. a lot of holdsy fans admire that trait of allan, but it must be said that it's a form of egotism. one should relax and play and not worship or despise one's own playing. the main problem with allan's lead playhing is the total lack of theme , motif and repetition. it is the reason he wasn't more popular. he gets away with that bad musicality by having an amazing tone, interesting scales, and raw emotion, but his notes and choices, they are substandard , esp if you compare to a genius like bach.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

@@jimmythebold589 I can't remember who said it (Pat Metheny?), "we all suck compared to Bach". I wonder how much Bach improvised. True improvisation, coming up with something new every time you do it, is not easy. You eventually run out of ideas and might repeat things you've already done. I think Allan did do better on solos for official recordings, where it needed to make (more) sense as opposed to his own free improv.

[@allancerf9038]

Agree. And again - agree.

[@cheezruff]

Can't get enough Gary Novak, everything he does excells!

[@jimmythebold589]

amazing dynamics and technique. husband is my favorite drummer, because of IOU, but that's s difficult choice, becuase novak is better for allan, in a live context, because allan loved to be buried by loud drummers like husband, a fact that mr. husband told me in person

[@hjaltiga]

I friggin love this drummer

[@babalonworking6]

GARY NOOOOOOOOOOVAAAAAAAK!

[@karlsalocks]

Gary is incredible

[@steffenbrix]

The world best tune!!

[@GregDeano75]

When I listen to any Alan Holdsworth uploads on youtube there often seems to be a lot of debate about guitar styles + players and bitching about who's better. I can't play any instrument for pony and know bugger all about theory or time signatures. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that these three musicians blow my mind. Love the drum workout near the end 10/10.

[@shpilk]

Dave Carpenter [RIP] is amazing in this whole performance, providing both bass and extensive chording stopping throughout. Jay Novak is one of the most underrated percussionists I've ever heard. All brilliant players. Probably Allan's best line up ever. They all really let loose and articulate on 16 Men. Buy the CD, it's worth it's weight in gold.

[@danielkeefer5875]

This bass solo goes down as one of my all time favorites. I dunno why, just so tasteful and groovy. Really dialed in the language. RIP indeed

[@pablotorres7436]

Okay, here it Is again... 16 Men Of Tain... Oh Allan, where are Thou Now? We Need You More Than Ever

[@guillaumewb]

I always come back to Gary's solo

[@Morrellphoto]

This performance could be the pinnacle of musical achievement. Every note is breathtaking.

[@NotYourTypicalNegro]

My favorite Holdsworth lineup!

[@shpilk]

Novak swings this so hard, it's impossible to imagine it played any other way. I listen to the other versions of '16 men',and use this as the comparison. Carpenter was incredible as well.

[@jamiepastman5594]

best Holdsworth drummer, and that's saying a lot. I took piano lessons with Gary's dad, the great Larry Novak (pianist)

[@user-kv1zf1hx7x]

1998 was a very tasteful year my goodness

[@fusioniskey]

Music of the Gods !

[@shpilk]

Novak is feeling every single bar differently, and accenting it to fit the mood exactly as I would imagine a world class percussionist would try to do in a complex interpretive piece like this.

[@ntesslafan]

I think the sections of the song where Allan solos remind me of a roller coaster climbing, climbing, climbing and then going down hill until beginning to climb the hill again. One of my favorites.

[@Mattius946]

awesome modern jazz. they're setting the bar high for the future of music and thats a very good thing

[@jazzualdo]

R.I.P. genius!

[@matt89102]

I have to say I really dug this lineup. I saw them with the addition of Alan Pasqua a couple weeks after Tony Williams passed @ "The Catalina". They were great!! . I remember James Cromwell was in the audience.

[@Gretschdrums75]

this is how trios are supposed to sound

[@Fontsman]

Momentous stuff from Allan, Dave and Gary. The interplay is breathtaking. There were so many great moments and musicians in Allan's bands, but I don't think anything surpassed this trio. RIP Allan and Dave, you were both incredible.

[@Chromatype]

such incredible lines...alway jaw dropping good

[@5tgb6yhn5tgb]

Just incredible - what a stunning piece - so groovy, but in a chilled way - awesome playing by all.

[@GregF71]

I saw them in 97 in Paris and ...wow!!!! For me,it may be the best trio for Allan's music although I would have loved to see him with Vinnie Colaiuta&Jimmy Johnson in the early 90's...

[@FrankOrlando]

I listened for Allan, but, you're right about Dave.... Phenomenal....

[@jimmythebold589]

i love that he plays chords and basslines at the same time. definuitely the best bassist for a trio, even though i was partial to jeff berlin.

[@JobamMartins]

This is perfect. Great song

[@ntesslafan]

I too saw that Dave Carpenter passed on June 24, 08 yesterday. I too am very saddened by his passing at the young age of 48. I was looking forward to hearing later recordings by this group of musicians. It is a shame, but at least we have the 16 Men of Tain to remember his playing and how talented Mr. Carpenter was.

[@datBdat]

The drummer Gary Novak is playing at The Baked Potato w/Michael Landau in a few weeks. Then two weeks later Holdsworth will be there. Can't wait to see them both.

[@pastalavista5754]

Just realised what a stupid thing I just said, I listened to it again WITH headphones and Dave Carpenter is awesome on this.

[@reah7213]

This was essentially the turning point for me in terms of, yeah I want to play jazz, novaks playing is so goddamn slick (edit and w yet) intense, shits fierce.

[@liverpoolhw]

Got this on loop

[@Poeme340]

3 guys from another world-it’s almost too good to bear! They’re just flying high, man!

[@jazzfusionaire]

i like how posted some Holdsworth on my birthday March-29th.Thx Leroben

[@anderson.ziemmer]

The chord chances after the drum solo till the end... OH MY GOD!

[@steviesspankin]

Sublime... a true genius

[@ilton_mateus]

Esse homem é um monstro...

[@natanielpablos3992]

OMG that intro

[@sivutietuote]

Holy fuck this is good video. My ears just grew up as big as those behind the band. This is pure drug.

[@dejanhasecic9124]

One on the planet! How about the redeifiniton of on an old saying! Great musicians! ❤

[@gvt76]

Muito bom mesmo! Allan detona tudo!

[@fernandomille]

Dave Carpenter, the only musician who managed to decentralize Allan

[@dougtube2006]

Killer tune. I've never heard him use that sound b4. So much for the SynthAxe I suppose ...

[@Listendudeok]

He's making a new record!!!

[@drumier]

the greatest electric guitar player on earth

[@mcufre]

Is that drum solo over a 15/8 vamp? I am scared, these guys can't be human.

[@shpilk]

Allan doesn't look happy with the tone he's getting. I think it's incredible.

[@fenomjr13]

Dave Carpenter sera por siempre el mejor bajista de la humanidad¡¡¡

[@liverpoolhw]

Novak at - 43 the change oml

[@impavitus]

@shpilk yeah that guy has some crazy drumming, love it.

[@LUMBERTHON]

sounds like a clarinet. thi is totally ossome!!

[@SeraphSnake]

@shpilk Indeed a great scotch. And even greater song!

[@aryuserius]

@lerolben It looks like it the "Spruce Goose". One of Delap's guitars for Allan. Maple neck, ebony board, alder body, spruce top and back. For a long time he played the same configuration with a birch top and back.

[@miles-178]

exactly, Gary is definitively best drummer ever

[@Kingding6]

yep

[@janderson2000]

RIP Dave Carpenter 6/24/08

[@dagostinoification]

m.allan holdsworth vous nous entrainez dans votre monde étrange et swingant virtuose et magicien musicien,vous nous enchantez depuis des années!originalité,climats.a la fois torrides et intimistes.je vous aime!didier d'agostino batteur-compositeur sur le génial youtube.

[@shpilk]

It's a song about scotch! Damn good scotch at that. Every time I hear the album version, I close my eyes and think it's a tour of Glenmorangie. You can even hear the pet mascot, the cat meowing, towards the end.

[@merrittmussorgsky2937]

Anyone know what synth Allan is using here to get that sound? Probably a Roland but which one, preset, settings, anyone know?

[@pearloidstrat]

A Roland VG-8 that he almost exclusively used for this song for the faux synth sounds and the harmony intervals in the chord melody. Roland should release an updated version, it was a great unit.

[@Modes9]

I always love Allan's comping. Sometimes the soloing does sound a bit random. He once described his own playing as "waffling around". If anything, he may be guilty of not playing enough patterns.

[@Shamol]

Does the guitar have MIDI pickups? The solo sound like a Synthaxe 🤔

[@luancarvalhomatos7888]

0:16

[@Zapollo8]

Greatest fusion player of our time! What type of headless guitar is he playing?

[@riccardopestrin4239]

Carvin guitar

[@We-all-watched-the-video]

@@riccardopestrin4239 is it not his delap?

[@JamesMaurer]

same festival shawn lane played at isn't it?

[@lerolben]

I think it's Bill DeLap baritone custom alder wood copy of Steinberger.

[@Samsgarden]

@paisteguy799 agreed

[@janderson2000]

Unfortunately it can no longer be.

[@LUMBERTHON]

@lerolben lol, "you think," yet you know exactly :-P

[@newsmanbluesman]

@GregDeano75 That is hilarious and apropos - I'm the guilty sort since I always want McLaughlin name used when these comments come along. As I type below screen, an incredible and successful synth tone and phrase is coming from my speakers. So: Holdsworth at work, unique, is what he is. Somehow w elec guitar I can give these guys each their mansions, and many rooms. Ceasing comparison. Listen enough and it must be same w all genius. Dexter G? Betty Carter? Lenny Breau? Beyond ranking, today

[@mancini2468]

...memory patterns rather than creative lines in context with the harmonies? Man, what the heck are you listening to?

[@pobinr]

Great chord progresions, but what has the solo to do with it. What difference would it make if that solo was played in any other AH tune ? All a bit random isn't it really.

[@jjgfx]

fix the title to sixteen

[@pobinr]

I know the piece. Have a signed copy of the album. Love the chords. But the live solo there is way off at a tangent from the harmony. Allan's live solos do seem to be made up of a lot of muscle memory patterns rather than creative lines in good context with the harmonies. I'm still a fan though.

[@darthmorbous]

a steinberger guitar

[@pastalavista5754]

Love Novak with A H, prefer Jimmy Johnson on bass though.

[@ZoomGeek]

ok people lets not flame the person who discriminated about the drumming, his ears just lack the sense of off-beat.

[@3shiftgtr]

I loves me some Holdsworth, but I REALLY like him with JAZZ/POST BOP drumming. Wackerman is cool and all, but Novak just gets it here and on the disc. 16 men is my fav AH disc mostly cuz there is NO CHAD. A break from Chad is truly welcome. Not hatin'...just sayin'.

[@22fret]

I don't get the idea. What's wrong with the drummer? To me, he's perfectly OK...

[@hardhitter0421]

Ok...Reviewed this material again...I am not sold on Novak......Holdsworth got no support from Novak's drumming on this tune...period, that is my opinion. Screw the difficulty...his feel for the material is a yawn, over played and without interpretation...thanks for the Shout Out.

[@Kweesh]

hardhitter0421 7 years on, what do you think of Novak’s drumming now?

[@BJazz19]

12 years on, what do you think about Novak's drumming now?

[@lmk001]

Rediculous