What if America Had Invaded Japan? (Operation Downfall)

[@i_RNGesus_i]

Should've named it Operation: Sunset

[@QuantumShock1]

Underrated comment.

[@RomanFanboy]

operation rising sun

[@hazardous0887]

That would be such a slap to the face to the Japanese

[@AimForMyHead81]

O

[@psyxypher3881]

We also should have called our battle plans against Germany "Operation: Kraut Control". So many missed opportunities...

[@ramblinbananas888]

I remember my grandpa telling me he was terrified of having to invade the Japanese home islands.

[@T2G-DJT]

Kevin Burkhamer Rightfully so too

[@mjohnsimon1337]

I knew several Japanese colleagues who's grandparents would say the same thing (of an American Invasion). If a battle-hardened American Marine / soldier was terrified, just imagine a Japanese civilian who's entire family and way of life was at risk. That's what would've made them much more dangerous because at that point, they would have everything to lose and literally would've fought tooth and nail. It would've been a bloodbath for everyone

[@ramblinbananas888]

@@mjohnsimon1337 Grandpa was in the Army, 3rd Amored Signals Corps. He was in Europe, just knocked down the Nazis. They were gonna send them towards Japan but the ended before they transferred him over there.

[@spert46]

My grandpa fought for the nazis and helped to take poland and france

[@missk1697]

@John Fitzgerald Kennedy No, it wasnt

[@carsoncasmirri3874]

Iwo Jima was one of the most devastating battles in all of the Corps’ history. The invasion of Japan would be almost unimaginable.

[@redalertsteve_]

Okinawa was worse

[@Idahoguy10157]

RedAlertSteve _ .... the scale of the Battle of Okinawa was a lot larger than Iwo Jima. The percentage of American casualties got higher the closer to mainland Japan that American forces got.

[@redalertsteve_]

Robert Dawson correct

[@bongcloudopening5404]

Carson Casmirri Iwo Jima or D-Day?

[@saturn9536]

I invaded Japan in HOI4 and kicked ass.

[@jasonwardy8192]

A colossal bloodbath avoided. Best scenario took place. Japan rebuilds, Russian influence halted, our grandfathers come home in 1945 instead of dying in ‘46.

[@cerridianempire1653]

and only american anime exists insted of having to deal with russian anime

[@minkshaming]

"Our grandfathers come home in 1945 instead of dying in '46." is a sentence that hit me harder than it should have

[@legendarymonkey503]

A lot of people talk bad about America dropping the nukes but don’t realize how much more death would’ve occurred without them. Also, did you know the USA actually warned Japan about the nukes before we dropped them. We told them to evacuate the cities so no civilians would be killed but they didn’t so eventually we had to drop em anyway.

[@xnetpc]

Legendary Monkey I just heard this, and only from one source, so I’m not taking it too seriously until I find more information to corroborate this, but I heard recently that Japan had offered to negotiate a peace treaty earlier in year, but the offer was refused because, A: The US wanted nothing less than Japan’s complete surrender, and B: The US wanted use its newly developed nuclear weapon as a demonstration of power. Using nukes to end World War II may be the only opportunity to do so in a way that still made the US look like the good guy. I don’t know if that’s someone’s theory, or if there is any truth to it. Usually, what really happened falls somewhere in between.

[@legendarymonkey503]

@@xnetpc yeah over heard about that too but I heard the USA rejected it because the Japanese wanted to keep control of all its assets of land it gained and that weren’t taken back yet. So the USA declined and asked for total surrender of all conquered lands and they also declined.

[@cornkopp2985]

If there had been a land invasion of Japan, then we would have regular anime and communist anime

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

Cory anime would be right in the middle. A nice blend of capitalism and totalitarian socialism

[@Arocks-lj8qr]

cory Sensei Communist anime Cold War? I'm in. All JRPGs games would have Russia be evil vodka drinking bear riding non-commie anymore almost cosmonauts.

[@赤青白]

i don't think anime would exist.

[@francescobettinardi4317]

Anime is communist prpaganda MERICA

[@BuckingBadger]

Optical Gaming except Anime was invented in Japan or were you bring sarcastic

[@josephleonard6695]

missed the opportunity to call it Operation Sunset, fitting for the Land of the Rising Sun

[@juanpaz5124]

Are u dumb as shit? The US military called it Downfall...

[@kenruble5292]

That would have been a clue and a give away. Only the Joker does that. Operation Overlord not withstanding.

[@shronkler1994]

@@juanpaz5124 Yikes, you have 0 braincells. You're dumb as shit.

[@shronkler1994]

@@mug1337 mhm

[@geezushasrisen]

Ricardo Milos Reading is hard, huh?

[@bunney3272]

1. What if the USSR won the Afghan War? 2. What if NATO accepted the 1952 "Stalin Note"? 3. What if the Kuomintang won the Chinese Civil War? 4. What if Tsar Alexander II was not assassinated in 1881? 5. What if Brazil remained a monarchy? 6. What if the Watergate scandal never happened? 7. What if Russia won the Russo-Japanese War? 8. What if the United States joined the League of Nations? 9. What if the Ottoman Turks won the Battle of Vienna? 10. What if Austria won the Austro-Prussian War?

[@92alexmaster]

I'm all for #3. Imagine China being a democracy with the same GDP per capita as Taiwan or ROK.

[@bunney3272]

92axelmaster China is a huge country. I expect that to be true only for coastal regions. Even today, if you look at the GDP per capita of China's provinces, a huge discrepancy exists between coastal and inland provinces. In fact, coastal wealthy cities such as Shanghai and Guangzhou are already very developed.

[@chrischambers4472]

Voice of Reason, what if Constantinople was never taken by the Turks

[@shoddycast1455]

chris chambers what if the Byzantine empire never fell

[@CollinBuckman]

What if Greece won the Greco-Turkish war?

[@alexius23]

My Father’s best friend was in the 1st Marines. Served from Guadalcanal onward..... He was training for the Japanese invasion. After Okinawa everyone knew what it would mean, casualty wise, to invade the home islands. After the Atomic Bombs were dropped and the surrender was announced he was stunned as he had already counted himself as a future casualty. As he walked around his base he saw tough men crying like little girls. He then sat down and for the first time he began to think about going home, marriage to his G/F and having a family...

[@mcshezzer9158]

'The war would have been extended by a year' *Mad Jack Churchil intensifies*

[@dippitt1234]

What a madlad

[@glowhoo9226]

That man would’ve brought the emperor to his knees

[@rexhunt4695]

@J M and u are from Where??

[@mememan2404]

@J M The Japanese wouldn't have surrendered as they thought it as the most dishonorable action someone could do. The entire reason they did banzai charges were because it was most honorable to go out in battle.

[@kentpurrington2645]

I think longer, at least year and half, possibly two.

[@MST3Killa]

Honestly, I'd like to see this be a mini series on HBO or something

[@veralenora7368]

Read / view Philip K. Dick's "The Man in the High Castle" classic book, also an HBO series. I've tried many times to read it, always had to quit because it became too horrible.

[@richardstarkey2247]

It would probably end with Truman dropping the atomic bomb on Tokyo after the Japanese surrender.

[@kaiserreichmapping805]

I am planning to write a book called "Operation: Downfall" or something like that

[@christopherparrisjr.3146]

a book has already been written.

[@marcofava]

@@veralenora7368 the man in the high castle is an Amazon series

[@blu12gaming44]

You left out a very important aspect of this operation: because the US anticipated very high casualties, the military was preparing to deploy chemical weapons on Japan to help in expediting victory.

[@bg147]

I believe there was some disagreement on that front.

[@johncomstock2759]

@@bg147 there was no disagreement according to my father who was slated to invade in Operation Downfall. The US Army chemical warfare units were ready to go with agents that had been taken from the Nazis. Furthermore the concept of civilians armed with spears was countered by arming the US troops with captured German machine guns. You simply sprayed the people before they could get close enough to attack.My father like many of the invading troops were combat veterans of the Pacific or brought over from the ETO. They were used to killing people and had long ago put any qualms to rest. In conclusion, the Japanese people would be overwhelmed and slaughtered before they had a chance to resist.

[@bg147]

@@johncomstock2759 That is wild. They would have been obliterated. The US leadership never would have tolerated a million in losses. It would have been carpet bombing, starvation, flame throwers, chemicals as you stated, and anything else.

[@kennethkellogg6556]

@@johncomstock2759 OR -- the Japanese could have used their own chemical weapons plus their biological weapons (tested in China) and rendered the Allied-occupied parts of Japan uninhabitable.

[@johncomstock2759]

@@chozer1 Well you can belive what you want but Operation Downfall was designed to be a kill them all invasion. The main reason I know my father was telling me the truth was the details came out while he was preparing me for MY trip to hell in Vietnam.

[@cyberpimp29]

My grandfather earned two bronze stars fighting the Japanese in WW2. When asked about dropping the nuclear bombs he never wavered that it was, 'the best thing that could have happened for both sides'. The one thing this video failed to address was the fanatic japanese military AND citizenship. Every man, woman, and child would have been used in a variety of suicide attacks: detonation packs, traps, etc etc. The loss of japanese life would have been unlike anything seen before. My grandfather would have been involved in that invasion, and my whole line might not exist.

[@StuffandThings0]

Caius Lang no he obviously was talking about the US dropping the bombs

[@bluedude2246]

cyberpimp29 My grandpa served in the European theatre and D-day. If he died in either one of them, I would’ve ceased to exist

[@nukesrus2663]

Nugget In a biscuit *dabbing emoji* Same, my grandfather fought in Northern Europe though and met my grandmother when he liberated her town in the Netherlands.

[@sheorajsingh4719]

cyberpimp29 My Great Grandfather fought in the battle of Haifa in Israel during the first world war. Had he not survive, I would've never existed.

[@nationradical]

Yes the Japanese has thousands of kamikaze pilots ready to fly into the Allied navy. We lost 15,000 lives taking Okinawa, an island of 700 square miles. To take Kyushu, and island of almost 15000 square miles, would easily take a couple hundred thousand lives.

[@TheHero136]

If they invaded Kanto, then the Americans would have a hard time fighting Rhydons, Charizards, and Gyrados among other Pokemon.

[@itsonlytaylor5124]

TheHero136 😂

[@HeIsAnAli]

*Unovans

[@Syogren]

No see, Alola isn't Hawaii, it's a region based off of Hawaii, and that's why it has a different name. :) :) :) Meanwhile Kanto is a real place, so it would have the Pokemon whereas Hawaii would not. :) :) :) The US should have grabbed Alola when they had the chance. :) :) :)

[@InciniumVGC]

Alternate History what if Pokemon were real?

[@therejects1424]

Bullets beat magic, son.

[@ThatVulcan]

Unlike the Mongols, America didn't die in a Tornado. They were the Tornado.

[@crypticgaming4485]

That Warstarian Vulcan Monsoon*

[@joyempire462]

*typhoon

[@writershard5065]

Can we.. not glorify this jingoistic view of war and military? Sure it might be necessary, but that doesn't mean we should call it great.

[@THENEPTUNEGAMER]

Writer Shard its a joke

[@cablebutkus7055]

"They had a nice time fighting with the Americans but then they died in a tornado"

[@mrc4910]

Operation Downfall would have been very costly. I was told Japan had held back substantial amounts of their newest and best weaponry for this eventuality. Also that civilians including women and children had mandatory training to resist to the end. There might have been a knife or pointed stick around every corner.

[@tremedar]

@Sakkra101 By August 1945...the US army had much better than the Sherman, even the improved variants.

[@tremedar]

It was well known by then the extent to which the Japanese would go in doomed, last stand defenses. Had downfall gone forward, it would have been a wrecking ball demolishing everything in its path, the only option available for the Japanese would have been suicide charges as all cover would get destroyed the moment it came into range of the big guns.

[@wtfbros5110]

Yeah, they actually made rocket powered kamikaze planes and manned torpedoes

[@harveyknguyen]

@@wtfbros5110 i mean that's what happens when you buy stuff from germany while they're in the same situation that you're pretty sure you're going to fall into as well

[@wrayday7149]

As Star Craft taught me... it's not about the tech, it's about the Zerg.

[@griffinpomisel2322]

This is going to be buried but I think its just a fun fact. My Grandpa was with the 1st Marine Division and has initial assignment was to be apart of the invading force in Operation Downfall. Though since Japan surrendered he was sent to China to be somewhat of a police force defending the Nationalist from the Communists. (Some of my timeline may be wrong it is a story from my dead Grandpa. And family stories are often inconsistent but hey something that is fun to share)

[@ajinkyatarodekar9099]

Your grandpa must have been a badass.

[@griffinpomisel2322]

@@ajinkyatarodekar9099 From what I heard he was

[@tomsim22]

Does he introduce himself by saying "The nuclear bomb saved my life"

[@griffinpomisel2322]

@@tomsim22 i wish

[@sr-71667]

Your grandpa wanted to have an adventure didn’t he?

[@JeffLeChefski]

My father signed up for this operation. Got him out of occupation duties in Europe. Canadian army. Got him home in time for university in September. Meanwhile my uncle who served in the Aleutian, Italy and NW Europe didn't get home till spring 1946

[@Bruh-yi8lg]

Must’ve had balls of steel to voluntarily sign up for this shit

[@JohnDoe-wt9ek]

@@Bruh-yi8lg Either that, or some serious foresight on what the Japanese would do, like serious prophet like foresight.

[@redbaron2829]

The Zimmerman telegraph please. Talk about if Mexico joined with the central powers in WW1

[@BazookaTooth707]

Alyosha Romanov the war started with a number of fishy incidents

[@redbaron2829]

Alyosha Romanov yes, but like this video, it would be interesting to see how things play out. American controlled Mexico (due to imperialism) could definitely be a cool theory.

[@Kunumbah1]

Mexico wasn't suicidal. If they had been occupied by the U.S., or even conquered Mexico would be a much better place then it is now.

[@redbaron2829]

Shiku Bah I really want to theory based on this. It could go good with the Germany winning the First World War part two. As maybe a side theory.

[@MrCrappyProduction]

*+Meme Maker* I am really glad that im not the only one who wants to see that scenario.

[@Matthew-qx3dh]

For everyone who would cry about how we shouldn’t have bombed Japan, it was either that or this.

[@NikolaiOrelovGNR]

well technically the there was a third option,which was technically what we gave them post war minus the nukes,which was emperor stays on the throne,but that would've been a controversial move on the US GOV's part.

[@husto4299]

I wholeheartedly agree

[@angelusvastator1297]

America would've ironically done a Nanking against Japan.

[@AeneasGemini]

You completely ignored the point that the Soviet Union was the main motivation for Surrender. Hirohito would've almost certainly surrendered regardless through fear of the Soviets as soon as they invaded manchuria, dropping the bomb was gratuitous

[@thegunman2841]

@@Whitelockblackwell4499 who knows japanese people may have been totally wiped

[@killerfrank8974]

Here's a suggestion for a video, Cody: What if the Soviet Union never collapsed?

[@aimbotecho262]

Irs already done

[@Reimastered]

KillerFrank Ew. The rest of the world would roflstomp them.

[@SuperRadAttack]

jason pantano the fact that you unironically used the phrase "roflstomp" alone is enough to gulag you.

[@aimbotecho262]

but i didnt

[@aimbotecho262]

tera did....

[@lincolnyang6369]

Holy shit the production quality is amazing! Good job Bilbo.

[@andrewmcginnis4149]

Lincoln Yang his name is Cody

[@TheCorrodedMan]

President of the USA, Donald J Trump DILDO GAGGINS

[@TheCorrodedMan]

President of the USA, Donald J Trump oh and hello mr president(bends the knee)

[@Negetive2digit]

From what I've heard, the Emperor was pretty much put under house arrest for most of the war by his top military guys, who actually wanted the war and kept it going when they really shouldn't have, and the Emperor was only able to start trying to sue for peace after being rescued from house arrest by more loyal people. Naturally, the guys who locked up the Emperor and ignored his wishes to not fight with the US in the first place were not very popular.

[@UgandanAirForce]

what if France turned communist before they banned communism in 1939?

[@ZORO12ful]

+Joshua Rathbun Soviet-French alliance => if Germany invades one, it gets destroyed by the other. The Communists in France were not as eager to roll over and die like the OTL's leadership of the Republic did.

[@syntheticfox_real]

Joshua Rathbun They wouldn't ban communism. Done.

[@AlphaSections]

France loves socialism, it wouldn't ban communism. It's still a wonder why they haven't gone fully socialist like Venezuela.

[@baraxor]

No topless beaches or decent food, so....

[@imperialguardsman521]

Because France is a mixed Government and unlike Venezuela, France has a economy that's works. Plus look at the Nordic Countries or Europe Union member states for example.

[@curtisshaw1370]

I have to disagree with you about the Russian factor outweighing the nuclear one. When he surrendered, the emperor recorded two different messages. The one played to the populace as a whole said that he was surrendering to save the people from the horrors and barbarity of the atomic bomb. The message played to the military talked about how the Soviet entry into the war meant that there was no other option. The real reason had to do with the emperor himself. The Japanese considered the emperor to be a divine being. If an atomic bomb was dropped on Tokyo, it was possible that lineage could be destroyed. That concern was reinforced by the statement under torture made by captured American pilot Marcus McDilda that atomic bombs would be dropped on Tokyo and Kyoto in the next few days. That was their main concern therefore the atomic bomb was a primary reason they surrendered. The Soviets entry was also a primary factor, but it had to do with more than simply their military, though. Although you did touch on this, I want to add some context. During the 1920s and early '30s, Japan was gripped by a series of leftist upheavals. Industrialization brought labor unions along with strikes and riots. The Japanese Communist Party formed in 1922. Anarcho-communist groups arose, such as the Black Youth League and the All-Japan Libertarian Federation of Labor Unions, both forming in 1926. The activities of these groups included murders, bombings, and other acts of terrorism, some of the more significant being the assassination of two prime ministers, Hara Takashi in 1921 and Osachi Hamaguchi in 1930 (although he survived nine months after being shot, he never fully recovered), and the attempted assassination of then Prince Regent Hirohito in 1923. During the American invasion of Luzon, Emperor Hirohito asked seven former prime ministers if he should continue the war. All counseled a continuation of the war, except one: Prince Fumimaro Konoe. He felt Japan should pursue a settlement because he feared that, if the war continued, it would result in a resurgence of the communism and anarchism that was suppressed a decade earlier. He drafted a memorandum for the emperor reiterating this a month later. After the Soviets entered the war, the greatest threat was not their military but the potential of them achieving a position where they could foment such movements in Japan. Much like the atomic bomb, this was also an existential threat to the divine lineage descended from the goddess Amaterasu. Both factors were of primary concern. The desire to preserve the imperial throne is what led to the surrender. The unconditional surrender of Japan is a myth. There was a condition: Hirohito remained on the throne, albeit without his imperial prerogatives. As for a worst case scenario if Japan had refused to surrender, you forget that the Japanese strategy at that point was Ketsu-Go. It was the kamikaze strategy that was supposed to break American resolve to continue fighting. Civilians were to be given sharpened bamboo spears with which to fight. Children were to be given explosive vests with which to take out tanks. In the opinion of Imperial Headquarters, "The only course left is for Japan's one hundred million people to sacrifice their lives by charging the enemy to make them lose the will to fight." Millions, if not tens of millions, of Japanese would have died in the invasion. The situation is even more nightmarish if the United States did have the atomic bomb and Japan still refused to surrender. There were no plans to drop any more atomic bombs after Nagasaki. America was producing around one atomic bomb a week. They intended to use them tactically to support Operation Olympic, by the launch of which, America would have had at least eight bombs stockpiled. Under those circumstances, American troops would have been invading a radioactive wasteland, and that would have increased American casualties due to radiation exposure. Also, your assertion that the entire Kwantung Army, with a strength of 713,000 men, was completely destroyed by the Soviets in a couple of weeks is fallacious. The Soviets, who invaded August 9, did catch the Japanese by surprise and in the middle of a reorganization that would have lasted into September, and they were generally successful, however, they did meet stiff, if often futile, resistance. The Japanese plan, in the event of conflict with the Soviets, was to withdraw to the southeast, into Korea. At the time when the Japanese were ordered to cease fire, August 15, they had lost about 21,000 killed, 20,000 wounded, and 41,000 prisoners. Some Japanese units ignored the cease-fire order, but it did put an end to organized resistance, the withdraw to the southeast, or any chance of coordinating with Japanese forces in China. The Soviets, who were more interested in securing territory than anything, then bypassed these pockets of resistance and continued advancing until September 2. After hostilities officially ended, the Soviets took the surrender of 600,000 Japanese soldiers. Similarly, the United States took the surrender of 4.5 million Japanese soldiers at the same time. If we are working under your premise that the Japanese refused to surrender and fought bitterly, things would not have gone quite so quickly for the Russians, especially once they started outpacing their supply lines. The Japanese had about 1,125,000 undefeated soldiers in China, who were much better equipped than the Kwantung Army. Counting their troops in Indochina and the home islands, they still had 6,095,000 troops. Since we are looking at a worst case scenario, we'll look at the worst fear of American planners. They feared taking the Japanese home islands would not end the war. The Japanese government and a significant portion of their remaining military would then transfer to the mainland and continue the war in China. That outcome might have prolonged the duration of the war for years. Still, this is better than a lot of the alternate history videos that KZbin seems so interested in recommending to me over the last few days. While I did have a few quibbles and felt you may have been missing some facts and/or context, I do feel this one was much more rational and realistic than the majority that I've seen.

[@howardbaxter2514]

The pilot was bluffing about Kyoto, but he wasn’t bluffing about Tokyo as it was later confirmed that we had one more bomb (not two which would have been an even bigger fear for the Japanese).

[@howardbaxter2514]

Also, you should have notes that the Japanese were about to conduct an operation that would have resulted in tens to hundreds of thousands of dead American civilians. The Japanese, confirmed by some Japanese submarine naval men, were about to drop bubonic plague infested fleas on San Diego.

[@jostham]

Communists elements didn't show up in Japan until the U.S. occupation of Japan

[@voss0749]

@@howardbaxter2514 At that point in time there were effective treatments for bubonic plague both sulfa drugs and an antiplague serum. Also streptomycin was invented in 1943. The idea that plague would run wild in california was Japanese wishful thinking. Californians had dealt with plague 40 years earlier and knew about quaruntine procedures.

[@mikebronicki6978]

Curtis Shaw very well stated. I knew much but not nearly all of this, thank you. It bothers me that more people do not realize that the atomic bombings saved millions of lives. An invasion of Japan would have made America's WW2 experience *so much worse.* (And it would have been unimaginably ugly for the Japanese.)

[@daemonofdecay]

I would love to see this video redone with the updated information about the Soviet inability to threaten the Japanese home islands. The Soviet angle is often stressed too much considering their actual capabilities. The remains of the IJN alone was many many times more powerful than anything the USSR could put into the Pacific waters.

[@JimRFF]

Especially if you consider the Russo-Japanese War just a couple decades earlier, in which Japan more or less kicked Russia's ass (though to be far, Russia was dealing with an incompetent leader at the time, and Japan would have been getting invaded by the US in the imaginary scenario, which would complicate things)

[@TheOther19]

But during operation downfall, the US Navy would be attacking the Japanese navy, and likely leaving it decimated.. if not completely destroyed, allowing the Russians to use their smaller navy to easily reach Japan

[@AeneasGemini]

Provide evidence please? Because this sounds incredibly sketchy

[@potatokingjack6870]

@@TheOther19 I doubt espaclly after fall of Berlin that the us would allow any Soivet fleeet to get to japan

[@masteroutlaw100]

@@TheOther19 They didn't have a Pacific navy in 1945

[@jeffreyfiredman9971]

We need to make a battlefield game bout this

[@augustinedaudu9203]

Chong Marin plus the 20,000 Kamikaze planes that are coming down at you every day

[@UEObambam]

Battlefield 2.5 operation: Attack the Anime I get credit for the title EA

[@DakotaofRaptors]

*Call of Duty: Weaboo Warfare* But seriously, though, if Treyarch made a game based on this scenario, I'd so play it.

[@angelranjel558]

Alternate WW2 Battlefield would be epic. Needs to happen.

[@hussienbintalal91]

Jeffrey Firedman very true bro😂

[@JetblackThemeTime]

In school we were taught that there was an option to invade Japan but that would have cost millions of lives and prolonged it to the 50's.

[@rebelman7837]

Kinda weird to think my grandpa who was too young to fight in ww2 might’ve had the chance to partake in the invasion of Japan if the war lasted a few years longer

[@goldenproductions7831]

E

[@MrRevan0035]

British and Australians (Completely skips Canadians)

[@beanovids2342]

and NZ and India and such

[@beanovids2342]

But tbch he just said British and Australians to be shorter.

[@lamb6042]

actually the australians would be called the ANZACs (Australian & New Zealand Army Corps) because we like our sister (idk wether they are our sister country but hey i'd like to think it is) country New Zealand and would've teamed up with them

[@beanovids2342]

Yeah, NZ and Aus probably would've fought together.

[@stevenweaver3386]

A 3 division Commonwealth Corps with a Canadian, Australian and British division was being organized for Coronet. The Far East Fleet was to be reinforced by up to 6 more carriers, with escorts from the RCN, RAN, and RNZN. A force of 22 heavy bomber squadrons, 10 of them the RCAF 6th Bomb Group, and a Tactical Air Force built around the RAAF was planned, too.

[@tcofield1967]

One point to make. If the US had invaded Japan the Imperial Army had orders to kill all POWs. This would have infuriated the US and the Western Allies even more, probably leading to much more suppression of the Japanese Home Islands after the War. Even if the Soviets never endered Japan (Which I am not sure they would do to be honest-their interest was in Manchuria and Korea) it would have caused a massive strain in US and Japanese relations for at least 40 years after the war.

[@WyvernApalis]

Probably end up with America going: we had a choice of invasion and two nukes. Now I'm gonna make it as many nukes to flatten your country

[@Captain1nsaneo]

Quick correction, the Kill All Prisoners Order was given and had started to be implemented, it wasn't conditional on the invasion of Japan. I'm with Caleb Shirey in believing that if there hadn't been a successful surrender the invasion would have been a genocide due to the civilian will to resist and the nuclear bomb production pipeline. Especially since no one yet knew about the ecological problems of nuclear weapons (to be fair they produce less radiation than thermonuclear weapons so re-habitation is possible, though sending solders through the fallout as was planned would have been devastating to the babyboomers). Also the Japanese had been saving up their kamikazes for homeland defense near the end of the war.

[@malaysabolehpsy]

@@Captain1nsaneo Thermonuclear weapons produce less radiation. Thermonuclear weapons are nuclear bombs with hydrogen next to it. The nuclear bomb is so hot that when it ignites the hydrogen it doesn't just explode, it actually fuses like a star, producing even more energy than the nuclear bomb. The area of destruction of a thermonuclear weapon is so large that there would be negligible radiation sickness. Anyone that could have got radiation sickness would already burn to death. With Hiroshima the nuclear bomb is small (by nuclear comparison) thus the range of burning to death is smaller than the range of suffering from radiation. A Hiroshima bomb dropped on New York would burn up a few city streets, everything inside and kill 100k+. A Russian thermonuclear bomb from a missile would wipe out the entire city.

[@Captain1nsaneo]

​@@malaysabolehpsy Well you've made me doubt my knowledge on the radiological characteristics of nuclear vs thermo. Time to check google. (a 23 page article later) I didn't know about the mach wave. Cool. Turns out we're both wrong on how much radiation nukes produce per kiloton. The nuclear radiation is roughly 15% of the yield for both nuclear and thermonuclear. But differences in individual bomb design will change the kind of leftover material. The area is subject to the square-cube law, a thermonuclear bomb of 1 megaton would have a larger volume but 10 100 kiloton nuclear bombs would have a larger foot print (thus MIRVs). Also weather and the shape of the land will have a large affect on contamination.

[@IronClique]

Ya well, Japan you'd still play the victim

[@lillyie]

Imagine having a North and South Japan

[@EARLYYY4215]

The nightmare of weebs

[@themackie2763]

In another universe: “Imagine having a North and South Korea”

[@kelkellys]

I see you everywhere

[@jakegeran7487]

Near to become like Korean war or Vietnam War. Remember, during the Warring States era, the time of Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Ieyasu, so many died of civil wars. Just like that.

[@YF365]

I'm not convinced North and South Japan would have a "Japanese War", like Korea and Vietnam. Both Korea and Vietnam have had a long history of fighting foreign occupiers before the US entered the picture. Freeing their brothers from "imperial colonizers" was one of the main reasons the Korean and Vietnam war happened. It wasn't China or Russia that pushed North Korea and North Vietnam into war, it was their own people seeking foreign help for a "war of liberation and independence" Since Japan has never been occupied, I think it would look more like West & East Germany. Peaceful yet bitter.

[@sonicx7410]

if the bombs were never dropped i wouldent get to see my anime

[@s7robin105]

sonicx7410 that's actually true since one of the main anime films that lead to its popularity in the west was related to the idea of nuclear weapons and things.

[@sonicx7410]

i was talking about my NARUTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! anime, but yea sure that too

[@sonicx7410]

but NARUTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[@mikesmith8656]

sonicx7410 We shouldve dropped more

[@sarahferguson75]

ATTACK ON TIT!

[@wilhelm__3713]

Hey Cody I got a suggestion: What if Germany never invaded Russia and Russia became part of the Axis not the Allies

[@geromino97]

BlackbeardGaming that's too weird after all Germany vs soviet union was the main point for the war for hitler, its more likely the UK joins germany and fights the Soviets since they were both anticommunists

[@__prometheus__]

BlackbeardGaming it kinda happened for a while due to the devil's pact

[@wilhelm__3713]

devil's pact?

[@osedebame3522]

The war would've lasted until about 1950. 100+ million people would die, nukes would be spammed, and the war would end in more of stalemate than victory.

[@__prometheus__]

BlackbeardGaming hitler and stalin signed an agreement to not attack eachother. Thus technically making russia an axis power for a while.

[@kittensofdeath4904]

what if japan never bombed pearl harbor?

[@LibeliumDragonfly]

Still would've ended up in war with US due to running out of oil & needing to invade more land to get said oil.

[@danielmao2615]

there was also that small chance they realized they had annexed one of the largest oil reserves in the world, Manchuria.

[@aidanschaferschafer9121]

despairedboy stupid comment...

[@anamelesstrooper6284]

+despairedboy that wasn't a problem back in WW2. It only became one now because the Middle East turned into a hellhole and everyone started killing each other over religion. Realistically the US probably would have got involved to protect financial interests in china, but not on as large scale as we did historically.

[@danielmao2615]

A NamelessTrooper The US would have ended up in the conflict no matter what, though as you said, the role they played would have been different. However, the Japanese actually were short on oil, or supplies in general. Of course, as I said, they ironically don't realize Manchuria is a oil stockpile. Then again, the Japanese wouldn't even have stood a chance against China in the first place. Their carriers can only be effective near the sea, meaning the IJA would have been on their own, with occasional air support. In the meantime, China's population is way too big for Japan to control, meaning unless they defeat nearly a billion people, the Japanese can't win. If the US got involved in China too early, there would have been no point, as China was in cooperation with Germany all the way up to the point the Tripartite Pact was signed, ending Chinese German relationships. If the US decided to get involved, the Japanese would have attacked the US, except this time, it would actually be a justified strike, not an "ambush", as the US calls it. It would also have turned Hitler's attention from Russia to the US, meaning Operation Barbarossa would never have happened and the USSR would likely have furthered their non-aggression pact into a temporary alliance to defeat the US. Against Germany, the US had a chance, since it had some European allies. Against Russia, however, the US would lose due to simply sheer manpower and size. Therefore, intervening in China would basically likely lead too the allies losing WWII. However, this would have simply given Russia reason to establish Mao even sooner than the time it took for them to win the Civil War in our timeline, which wouldn't benefit the US economically, or in any way as a matter of fact.

[@GungaGingster1215]

What if something happened

[@donshively9395]

I am happy this is a public comment. The Japanese detonated their own nuke in Konan, North Korea, not long after we detonated our bombs. If our bombs never had worked, theirs might have. In a sub, detonated under our invasion fleet, well you have seen the photos of our Pacific Island tests. Check it out. National Geographic did a special on it. We were in a nuclear arms race and did not know it. If we had not ended the war (saving millions of lives) they might have sent a sub into SanFransisco and blown it up in the Bay! That would give us pause and changed the course of the war. The Russians would have invaded, captured the Japanese facility and had the bomb before we did! There's a thought. Hope he makes a "What If" out of that idea.

[@2ethefirst318]

Don Shively ok

[@Troglodytarum]

Don Shively What the fuck

[@starkiler13]

ok then somethin would happen

[@SawyBawy]

ok what if green hair was natural

[@grimm_plush]

6 months to invade Japan? Pfft, give me 6 HoI4 paratroopers and it'll be done in one at the most.

[@ausintune9014]

japan has more resistance then the UK fam but i guess so i invaded the USA with a few divisions as soviet union

[@RAKITHA9]

huffpuff1337 or the russians will use their speed hacks and cs go players

[@manueldeabreu1980]

What two things that get lost to history. 1) More Japanese civilians died in fire bombings than both nuclear bomb drops. This was due to most Japanese buildings were made of wood. 2) After the Japanese surrender thousands died from famine for years afterwards. General MacArthur told the chiefs he needed food or bullets when he took over Japan as Supreme Commander because that was how bad it was. He would have to fight a massive starving riot from the civilian population or allow him to feed them. They released tons of food that ironically was being stock piled for the invasion. Now add another 6 months to 1 year of bombing and invading and the nation might have collapsed into a 3rd world nation or worse. The one thing that makes no sense is I don't see how the Soviets could invade Japan. They had almost no navy and you would need a force the size of D-Day. They had to build up that force and had zero experience. Not that Soviet doctrine gave two shits about their men. I suspect the war would have been over before the Soviets even were close to ready.

[@---uf2zl]

What if the Belgian revolution of 1799 succeeded? What if the Ottomans won the siege of Vienna? What if the battle of the Dardanelles was a British victory? What if Japan never declared war on the US in ww2?

[@---uf2zl]

And finally, what if the sunset invasion occurred?

[@lastwolflord]

Think he did one on the Ottoman empire never falling. But most agree it would have fallen even if it survived WW1. Most power houses wanted it's oil.

[@JensenTheShinigami]

Leurquin François What if the U.S joined the the central powers in ww1 & surprising enough most Americans wanted to join the Central powers instead of the Allies ...

[@danielmao2615]

To answer number 4, there would be two main possibilities. One, China would take over Korea and defeat Japan alone, as the only reason the Japanese were winning at all was there technological advantage, which of course needed oil and fuel, which came from the United States. Without fuel, they would have been overwhelmed by the most populated country in the world. Or, two, Russia defeats Germany and turns their eyes on Japan for revenge from the Russo Japanese War, not that the two were on excellent terms at that time anyways. A third, unlikely possibility, would be that Japan actually realizes that Manchuria is a giant oil rig and no longer need to rely on the US, whose absence from the way just may have been enough to give Hitler the edge to defeat the allies and, if you've seen or read the Man in the High Castle, the world just may look like the one from that scenario.

[@danielmao2615]

Oh, and that was supposed to be a reply to what fi Japan never declared war on the US in ww2.

[@dodo-ux4po]

1:07 that map looks horrific

[@jjt171]

*C O M M U N I S M H A S G O N E T O O F A R*

[@youraverageuser7039]

Eh it isent that ba- WAIT A SECOND YOUR RIGHT WHERE TF IS THE BLACK SEA IS THIS A CURSED HOI4 MOD BECAUSE I NEED TO SEE ISORROWS SUFFER

[@justarandomsovietofficerwi2023]

BlackSea.exe has stopped working.

[@davidkuntze7992]

The US did not retake every island occupied by Japan. They took key islands needed for moving forward and left the other islands to “wither on the vine”.

[@sirenloud]

Actually my grandmother and grandfather told me that Mexican Army was going to join the American Army invading Japan they send a couple squadrons to the Philippines two assists and translating from Spanish to English but more importantly Mexico is going to invade Japan they wanted a piece of the action they just got into the war a little bit too late and there were training and drilling an invasion tactics on Mexican Islands to invade Japan crazy

[@Xxcyclonexx44]

Sergio Bocanegra tell me more

[@llcometll7926]

My grandfather was one of those people. He joined the US army as a mexican and went to Japan during the war.

[@vicdansanch]

Well that was retarded from the Mexican goverment

[@sirenloud]

Well the Mexicans had no choice the Axis powers sunk a few Mexican vessels in the Gulf of Mexico

[@teogonzalez7957]

After the axis sunk Mexican ships they sent a plane squadron named the Aztec eagles to help the us. Most of the support where supplies sent to the us.

[@Spyderist]

it's weird to think that nukes saved Japanese lives

[@ImAyeGuest]

Spyder And a Soviet invasion

[@aquila4460]

Why? They wheren even the worst bombing the japanese had to suffer.

[@osedebame3522]

It was the most horrific bombing and that is what people don't understand. Many of the men involved with the Manhattan project killed themselves after they saw pictures of what the bombs did, black and white pictures. The bombs flash boiled human flesh, killed children and destroyed schools. This wasn't the most deadly bombing Japan had withstood, it was the most gruesome.

[@Spyderist]

what's your source on researchers on the Manhattan project killing themselves? Metal Gear Solid? Most of the major scientists and minor ones like Feynman seemed to live the rest of their lives just fine.

[@ravenwing199]

Nobody on the MH project killed themselves.

[@grampton]

If 'Murica invaded Japan, Tom and Jerry would be considered Anime.

[@zeromailss]

Saunterblugget Hampterfuppinshire but they are 😑 anime is japanese mean animation, so for japanese Frozen, Tom & Jerry,Final Fantasy 7,Naruto are all anime the misconception is caused by the so called otaku outside of Japan , of course it was a super simplified version,japanese animation is indeed somewhat different and calling them anime to separate then from other animated movie to avoid misunderstanding is sound argument

[@bishop51807]

Accept without high colored kawaii characters but with more serious overtones of Japanese honor and seppuku.

[@clashman7564]

@@zeromailss 😑 is super cringe emoji.

[@wewuzvikangz4829]

9:17 with what navy? The Soviets dont have any ships and what few boats they can cobble together aren't getting past the US Pacific fleet

[@Taschip]

@Reunite The British Empire Their navy was horribly outdated and could've been outbeat by literally any Navy. The Japanese or even the Americans would've taken them down quickly.

[@wewuzvikangz4829]

@Reunite The British Empire from Wikipedia "By August 1945, the Pacific Fleet consisted of two cruisers, one destroyer leader, ten destroyers, two torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, ten minelayers, 52 minesweepers, 49 "MO" anti-submarine boats (MO stands for Малый Охотник, or "little hunter"), 204 motor torpedo boats and 1459 war planes." So as i said before the Soviets didnt have a sizable navy in the Pacific, go back to warthunder you stupid tankie

[@wewuzvikangz4829]

@@AppleGhostCat they had almost no ships in the Pacific, hes wrong. He probably gets his historical information from video games or some shit.

[@wewuzvikangz4829]

@Reunite The British Empire cool insult bro, do you want to address my citation and how it proves you wrong now? The Soviets had no surface fleet in the Pacific and they were not capable of invading japan especially with the us navy in the way. Do you have any clue how logistically difficult amphibious invasions were in the second world war? There's a reason the American, British, and Japanese navys (which which were the finest in the world at the time) all struggled with it, compared to them the soviet sailors were a bunch of amateurs at best, especially since stalin purged most of the soviet navys leadership in the 30s. don't even get me started about how woefully obsolete most of the russian ships were, alot of them predated the first world war. Oh by the way the fact that you are suggesting that the Soviet airforce could somehow be used to bring soldiers into japan is more evidence that you have no clue what you are talking about, the soviets had no experience with successful large scale vertical insertion and one time they tried in the war they lost (at Bryansk). This was at a time when the entire idea of it was still in its infancy and the Soviets were not capable of pulling it off.

[@T2G-DJT]

Reunite The British Empire You must be adept at debates if you try to wither away at your opponent by insulting them in arbitrary evidence to confirm why you dont need to debate them

[@jeffma7507]

The American troops would have unleashed its full fury and would have wiped Japan off the map Because they needed to be stopped by any means necessary. And because the US was pissed about pearl harbour and all of Japan’s atrocities, there would be no stopping them.

[@CoiboiXD]

Japan would be fighting to the death, it would be a bloodfest that even overshadows all key battles of ww2 and even Vietnamm

[@TheNorthie]

We made a million Purple Hearts in preparations of the massive casualties faced for Operation Downfall. To this day US armed forces are still handing out these Purple Hearts to our servicemen and women

[@MrRikersBeard]

Thomas D Possibly a stupid question, but what's a purple heart?

[@dickchampion5860]

It's a military decoration that is given to people that have been wounded or killed in war.

[@TheNorthie]

MrRikersBeard Yeah so just think for a second, the US estimated that 1 million soldiers would either die or be wounded in an invasion of Japan.

[@MrRikersBeard]

Thomas D Nukes suddenly sound like a better option

[@Halo4Lyf]

If she was in some way wounded by enemy action.

[@nordicnostalgia8106]

The mindset of the Japanese people from this period in such an event is truly frightening.

[@TheNorth15]

You know if you kind of think about it, the mindset of the Japanese Empire is actually kind of similar to the fictional Imperium of Mankind of Warhammer 40K.

[@facelessidiot6407]

TheNorth15 I like the fact that Cody had caught on to that fact if the Space Marines at 2:41 were anything to go by.

[@animegandalf8690]

NordicNostalgia Well too be honest i thought many countries during ww 2 had a frightening mind set, even some western too

[@geromino97]

Johan Aanvik yeah, pretty much every mindset from every country who fought in world war 2 is different to the same countries that exist today, maybe the country still closest to their countries mindset in ww2 is russia

[@nordicnostalgia8106]

Japan reached new heights. They were different in that unlike other countries, their mindset were less driven by the government and politics by comparison. Their fighting spirit are cultural.

[@dosmastrify]

No way this would be swift. I don't think they would have surrendered... Ever. It's impressive to have that level of unity

[@spleen5527]

They would never have surrendered even though they did? Your logic is dumb foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

[@johnmarston7606]

@@spleen5527 The soviet union didn't cause the Japanese to surrender, the emperor realised the nation was runing out of supplies, and more fighting would cause a revolution.

[@SteveLeicht1]

@@spleen5527 The Germans basically fought until there was no Nazi territory left. Japan would probably jave done the same, as I think the Japanese devotion to the Emperor was greater than the German's was to Hitler. Atomic bombs were a new weapon that broke even the military's willpower and hopes to bleed America white.

[@blank557]

My Dad was a marine with the First Marine division. He fought at Peleiu and Okinawa. He never shared much about his experiences, but did share how when he was on Okinawa preparing to invade Japan. One night in August while his outfit was a watching a movie in the rain, gunfire erupted from the naval ships offshore. A radio operator ran up and interrupted the movie. He shouted: "It's Over! The War is Over!" My dad and his fellow marines went nuts, throwing chairs, screaming and crying with relief. A few even punched each other. The ships offshore were shooting in celebration. If that makes me biased for favoring the atomic bombing of Japan, so be it. An excellent fictional book on a hypothetical invasion of Japan is the 1970 novel"Lighter Than a Feather" by Davd Westheimer. While fiction, it is extremely well researched and gives a pretty good idea how the invasion would go down, as seen by the POV of the books' many characters from both sides. I highly recommend it.

[@Grummsh00]

Thanks, I will give it a look.

[@twinzzlers]

Oh but remember the nukes were bad because people dieeeeed.

[@salokin3087]

Actually, the Soviet invasion was far more decisive in ending the war, the Nukes didn't mean much when firebombing cities was just as effective.

[@alexanderi.3550]

Salokin Sekwah he mentioned that

[@salokin3087]

Xander Iwicki Yep....Damn it

[@dingdingdingding5544]

Salokin Sekwah Most of our industry was in the home islands. Manchuria did nothing but route a tired army.

[@CallsignYukiMizuki]

Carson Marlow I definitely agree with the first part. Second part, I don't necessarily agree.

[@Devinn504]

Callsign-YukiMizuki it's true tho. Name a more powerful country, I'll wait.

[@yanagida_01]

made a comment two years ago that these doods are still talking about so I edited it

[@mrmiyamoto5908]

I'm Japanese and no anime and weebs sounds pretty decent.

[@GamingAccount-ru1gi]

No hentai= No retards

[@ad5662]

= no furries (I'm kidding)

[@0zetazetazeta0]

@@ad5662 No furries will exist because anime created furries.

[@JCLIAO007]

no hentai this world will not be a cool one.

[@inbredalice3697]

Fucking with the wait man, great content as always and loving the animations.

[@inbredalice3697]

Worth*

[@Ghidorah_Stan64]

Joseph Stalin happy birthday

[@冬-01]

dafuq...

[@冬-01]

Just wait till 420 yo!

[@Techno_Idioto]

*doesn`t know how to communist* uhh....power to the working class?..

[@michaelfisher7170]

We'd never have had Godzilla or anime. History played out as it was supposed to.

[@Schmidty1]

Doubt the soviets could have taken Hokkaido, they could barely take the kurils because of the lack of navy and especially naval transport.

[@Admiral_Jezza]

Yeah but much of the Japanese navy wouldn't exist by that point, after attempting to defend their outlying islands from American invasions and all.

[@Schmidty1]

@@Admiral_Jezza Doesn't matter. The Soviets did not have the amphibious capability whether they face a navy or not to invade the Japanese main islands. Logistics would be impossible and landing in the first place would be a near to zero chance.

[@loganowens4309]

Yeah, I basically tuned out when he said that. Discredited the whole thing.

[@Schmidty1]

@@loganowens4309 Only video I have ever disliked of Cody. So much bad shit in this video and horrible assumptions.

[@ssss-n4e7q]

Actually soviet could have took hokkaido if they attempted the attack

[@Aldebarean]

An amphibious assault is the hardest thing to do in a war with high amount of losses expected. Japan had already dug in and fortified their coastlines. It requires an abundant amount of training, experience, an adequate navy with support vessels, transport vessels, bombard vessels, air superiority and most importantly a chain of non stop supplies being brought in. The USSR had NONE of these factors facing Japan. A country that during the second world war was the most experienced in coastal and amfibious defence. I doubt the Russians would have made any difference. They might have been able to take a port or 2 at heavy losses, but wouldn't have been able to maintain their positions. The reason why the US was so successful is because they had the experience, supplies, Air superiority, supply chain and naval power to do so.

[@Kazako83]

They did have limited experience in the Black Sea and Soviet Marines were some of the more veteran troops of the USSR, but they were a whole world away.

[@AKNeal81]

I feel you've lost some of your imagination in your videos. It's likely from the always atrocious YT comments section and pompous critique given after you've posted an alternate timeline but this has hampered the end result imho. I love your channel but since it IS your channel, there's no need to walk on eggshells.

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

Thanks. I feel like I always have to walk on eggshells especially since the days of my really out there scenarios, and you're right, I've been dealing with that a lot lately

[@ouieed]

AlternateHistoryHub It's all good. Thanks for putting out all these videos for us through hard times. Have a good Christmas, and a great New Year. :)

[@danobrien4890]

+AlternateHistoryHub I'm really liking the new style. Not too cartoony yet it still had that classic Alternate History Hub Feel!! Love your videos!

[@pyrix]

Fuck the eggshells man, it's your channel, you do what you want. I come here for your ideas, your OPINIONS. You shouldn't have to cater to bitchy whiny comment babies.

[@badluckmaker2457]

Kickass Duke I bet youth grade in grammar is a F.

[@iNexTTx]

What if 'The Golden Age of Islam Never Ended?'

[@romaniangamer1]

Daniel I love this proposal, CODY PLEASE!

[@hmm-hy8cw]

lol i myself dont remember how i typed it .. i swear i dont do weed ..... i honestly dont even know what i did mean to mean by that comment

[@Ultizer]

Islamic Golden Age was ended by Mongols, so to ignore Islamic Golden Age, you have to ignore the Mongol Empire, that's gonna be a big video

[@karlsmith6690]

Less terrorism in the region and more equal negotiations with the European powers and the United Steak of America.

[@daisygowanditchburn4844]

They'd probably be a political and technological powerhouse. The Scientific method was being developed there and it is not unreasonable to suggest that these efforts would have continued leading the Islamic world being the centre of scientific development and thought. This in turn would have led to the further development of technology in these regions. Furthermore because of the abundance of oil they could have had an industrial revolution based on oil from the get go rather than the period where coal was paramount as in our time line.

[@rc59191]

What if AlternateHistoryHub went to war against HistoryBuffs?

[@sigismunddorn4617]

soukupb horus heresy

[@J22-b8t]

Japan: We shall never surrender America: *You dare challenge me mortal?*

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

More like : Japan: we will never surrender. America : remember the Romans and their atrocities, I'm that times a thousand. I'll prove it even :Sends bombs... Japan: Okay... I surrender you psycho... Jeez...

[@J22-b8t]

EvedYahu More like US:Hey do you want to surrender? Japan: no US: well you see we have these two giant bombs. Japan: no *US drops fist bomb* US: Surrender? Japan: No *drops second bomb* Japan: Okay I surrender.

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

@@J22-b8t Remind me the dangers of Japan not giving up... Oh yea... Nothing at all! None... Nada... No excuses for US brutality buddy...

[@J22-b8t]

EvedYahu Well no if japan didn’t surrender it would carry out the war for years to come and kill millions of more on both sides. Us common sense buddy.

[@saturn9536]

MGTOW are Incels Well yeah that makes sense but it wasn’t just the devastation, it was the looming threat. If those two bombs could level cities with just one of it, then imagine how Japan would feel if they knew the U.S has an Arsenal.

[@jokingjoker4946]

Who needs the Black sea am i right?

[@dimitar5734]

what do you mean ? Black sea is nearly on the other side of the globe

[@jokingjoker4946]

@@dimitar5734 Look at 6:28 he forgot the Black sea

[@michaellocklear44]

@@mug1337 🤣🤣🤣

[@forscienceistokra1549]

@@mug1337 lol

[@endersonshaskaumali4541]

I was looking for this comment

[@taylorwatson7932]

My Great-Grandfather was a guard at a Japanese POW camp in California. At the end of the war he was transferred to a combat unit and deployed for the invasion of the main islands. He got about half way there and they dropped the second bomb. They turned them around. I have very little doubt that the two atom bombs, in addition to saving the lives of millions of Japanese, also saves the life of my great-grandfather.

[@christoala6817]

Some say if your early Cody from AlternateHistoryHub appears from the shadows

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

Doot doot

[@Joey-th2gb]

Why, the legend is true!

[@christoala6817]

AlternateHistoryHub It is true the legend is real

[@MrHappymunch]

consider me spooked sir.

[@SenorEscaso]

thank

[@newpivot1]

I never knew that the cruel bombs the Emperor explicitly mentioned as the main factor for surrendering was actually in reference to the Russians.

[@Hotomato]

The art style here looks a lot like cyanide and happiness, and for some reason it fits.

[@The_Honcho]

What if France invaded America after the British surrender?

[@s7robin105]

ImTheWaffleman why would France invade America?

[@The_Honcho]

+S7Robin Well because of Alternitehistoryhubs favorite excuse "for whatever reason"

[@s7robin105]

ImTheWaffleman his ideas are normally based off something. France wouldn't get anything from a war unless it was right after the war for independence and it was a huge attempt at a land grab

[@The_Honcho]

+S7Robin exactly. I'm talking right after the war as an attempt to get a huge land grab. If he can do alien invasion videos he can do this

[@s7robin105]

ImTheWaffleman suppose it could work but I could imagine it would just lead a new war that may end with the states going back into British control

[@collinmclaren6608]

It can't be under-stressed the fanaticism of Imperial Japan. Everyone already knows about the bonzai charges and kamikaze attacks, but that even went down to the civilian population. The mass suicides of Saipan is a haunting example I regularly think about. Imagine that, multiplied across the entire Japanese mainland.

[@JU1CETN]

GOD I LITERALLY FUCKING LOVE YOUR CHANNEL

[@JU1CETN]

But seriously I love history and its my favorite subject. So these video are extremely enjoyable and interesting for me. Great work man : )

[@omergaming9410]

What if the Ottoman Empire lost the battle for Constantinople 1453

[@Tracer_Krieg]

There were over a dozen different battles for Constantinople. The Ottomans would've kept trying until the city fell.

[@omergaming9410]

Jacob Sailer I remember typing 1453 which was when it fell

[@TheOtherOne122]

He then told you what would happen

[@mikesmith8656]

Omer Gaming94 Then our workload would be less intense. DEUS VULT

[@empiretotalwar3]

Omer Gaming94 better if Christians did not sax it

[@williampurvis2887]

People want to say the nukes were war crimes when invading japan itself would have killed more than triple the men on Okinawa.

[@yoloswaggins7121]

Bombing civilians is a war crime. And they didn't have to do either. They had completely destroyed Japan's navy and airforce. All they had to do was blockade Japan and wait. Or they could have just accepted Japan's surrender in exchange for guaranteeing the safety of the emperor, which they ended up doing anyway after the nukes were dropped.

[@d.k8257]

@@yoloswaggins7121 ''All they had to do was blockade Japan and wait'' which would obviously not cause any civilian casualties whatsoever ''Bombing civilians is a war crime.'' then any bomber is obsolete as even the most viable of military targets have civilians in them

[@dalkay]

They couldn't invade Kanto! Pikachu would defend them.

[@kellywilson-lawson1857]

+Julius Cole Stuff that's the joke

[@augustinedaudu9203]

Julius Cole Stuff maybe my nose see how ridiculous the comment is, and maybe using your brain to discover it's a joke

[@therejects1424]

Bullets beat magic, son.

[@orestis6048]

Pikachu sucks he is only the maskot if they went from sea americans will get beat up by gyrados

[@GamingAccount-ru1gi]

Pokemons against American Forces Even a Pokemon is Legendary, it would still be killed by Artillery

[@Dimelo.R]

You forgot something... Operation Cherry Blossoms at Night.

[@kellywilson-lawson1857]

And that justifies the Atomic Bombs

[@ehsorb4534]

Demonic Hellstorm today is the first time I've ever heard of that. Jesus fucking christ that was close to happening. I'm sure if that went through before we dropped a nuke, we would've dropped more of them just for what they did

[@jimloesel2849]

I just looked this up on Wikipedia. This operation, codenamed "Cherry Blossoms at Night", called for the use of airplanes to spread plague over Southern California at night. It was set for a September 22 attack. The US dropped the first atomic bomb on Aug 6 and fortunately Japan surrendered on August 15th.

[@JakvsMetalheads999]

Downfall is the single greatest argument against anyone that thinks the atomic bombs were unjustified. It was tragic that they had to be used, but nothing compared to the suffering and tragedy that the invasion would have brought. This would have destroyed Japan. You can argue that it was the Manchuria Offensive and the destruction of the Kwantung Army that brought the surrender, but that doesn’t necessarily hold up to me. The loss of the Kwantung Army, while a massive blow, didn’t necessarily change the situation of the defense of the home islands. The Soviets had very little amphibious capability, and so weren’t imminently on the verge of hitting Hokkaido after Manchuria - it likely would’ve happened eventually, but not so imminently as to scare Japan into an immediate surrender. I don’t believe there were any plans, or capability for that matter, to move that army back to the home islands either. At the end of the day, the loss of Manchuria, as far as I know, didn’t really effect Japan’s ability to turn the home islands into a deadly fortress. What *did* effect that plan however, was the perception that the US was just going to keep vaporizing city after city until Japan gave up. They didn’t know we only had two ready to go, Nagasaki was intended to, and did, give the impression that we could keep doing it as long as we had to. Suddenly, instead of holding out in an impregnable fortress and daring the Americans to come in and die, it looked as though they’d just end up sitting there taking nuke after nuke and being able to do exactly nothing about it. I don’t think the Manchuria Offensive had zero impact on the final decision, but I don’t think it would have brought on a surrender without the atomic attacks as well. Potential History’s video on it sums things up pretty well in my opinion. The atomic bombs were terrible, and few in Hiroshima or Nagasaki deserved that fate, but they were the definition of a necessary evil. They saved more lives than they took, and they saved Japan as a nation.

[@蒸かした犬]

日本の殆どの都市は爆撃により消滅し、特に東京大空襲では10万人以上の民間人が亡くなっています。それでも日本は降伏しませんでした。また、日本は7月に降伏の条件として天皇制の存続を主張していて、原爆の投下前から降伏の意志を連合国に伝えているのです。降伏の最大の要因はソ連の共産主義の拡大により天皇制が崩壊する事を恐れた為です。

[@revenger210]

Not gonna lie, after the first minute, I expected Cody to go "War. War never changes." XD

[@ottovonbismarck7094]

I am still wondering what would happen if the Ottoman Empire successfully took the Suez Canal.

[@ShanOakley]

Damn good question! It demands to be addressed!

[@matteotesta2365]

Marc Matott i think it's a good idea for a video

[@MikhaelAhava]

What if the Ottomans didn't loose to Italy? What if Bulgaria won against Greece, Serbia, and Romania.?

[@davidmurphy8364]

I remember reading somewhere that they made so many Purple Hearts in anticipation of the enormous casualties they would sustain that that purple hearts awarded for decades after were all WW2 era. Not sure if its true but pretty cool if it is!

[@99batran]

what if operation cherry blossoms at night was carried out?

[@aquila4460]

No. The US hadn't the capabilitie to do that at this time. There would have been the greates humanitarien catastrophe of all times.

[@lastwolflord]

Yes but they did have the ability for chemical and biological war and would still be napalming japanese cities to the ground.

[@kellywilson-lawson1857]

Then everyone would be more grateful of the A-Bombs

[@oliwiereb]

1:09 Have the Black and Caspian Seas evaporated?

[@flamejockey3486]

rumor is that if you kidnap cody from alternatehistoryhubs' family, he comment on this comment

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

Give me back my dad you scoundrel it's been 21 years

[@makeshiftgamer6909]

AlternateHistoryHub lol

[@peardude8979]

AlternateHistoryHub What if Cody's dad was never abducted?

[@communistcat3240]

holy shit

[@intricatedesign3559]

Already been done I'm pretty sure.

[@ZacParsonsComedy]

What if Canada was a superpower?

[@sarahferguson75]

We already are eh

[@ZacParsonsComedy]

U Wot M8?! Meh. Not really.

[@sarahferguson75]

I was being sarcastic ;~;

[@RyanMiller-ej8ri]

Maple syrup would be a international currency XD

[@TheDrunkenHetzer]

Ryan Miller Just imagine how sticky everyone's hands would be.

[@zacharync3066]

What if America lost the battle of midway? Been saying this for awhile and I'd think this would be a great vid

[@Thekilleroftanks]

maybe kepted the war going for a few more months, maybe a year. wouldnt take the US that long to replace those losses, the big thing would be that japan would still have its major carrier fleet.

[@DASCO2136]

It probably would've extended the war by several months. Assuming that the result at Midway would be Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet sunk for no carrier losses, Japan would still have the backbone of its fleet and probably would've extended its perimeter in the Pacific further but by December 31 1943, the Japanese carrier fleet would be outnumbered numerically (Excluding escort carriers, all 9 Independence class plus 7 Essex class aircraft carriers would be in commission by then) and would be facing aircraft that were better in terms of quality than the Japanese aircraft, particularly with the F6F Hellcat fighter. That said, in an alternate Midway timeline, assuming everything else remains unchanged (Japan lost the aircraft carrier Ryujo during the Guadalcanal campaign) the Japanese fleet if they were to engage the Pacific fleet in a battle similar to that of the Philippines Sea in 1944, the order of battle would be the following: 9 Fleet carriers (Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Taiho, Junyo, Hiyo) and 4 light carriers (Zuiho, Ryuho, Chitose, Chiyoda). So that would be 13 Japanese carriers going up against 16 American carriers in a similar battle.

[@lastwolflord]

Not only that but some ships from the Atlantic would probably be pulled and sent toward Japan.

[@jasonhaven7170]

Couldn't North and South Japan be like West and East Germany?

[@alexk9416]

for anyone who was wondering like I was, the exact song of myuus that is playing is called Troublemaker Theme

[@nickairsoft2922]

My grandpa was a tank commander sent to one of the captured islands (i don’t remember which one) to prepare for the invasion of the mainland japan. He said they were shown instructional films to show them what to expect when they got there. Saying that they should expect every Japanese person to either fight to the bitter end or kill themselves.

[@SabethDrake]

2 words Nuclear Samurai

[@jrm4408]

My grandfather somehow survived Omaha Beach on D-day (naval beach battalion, Saving Private Ryan part of the whole nightmare and at the same time), and at the end of the war was near Japan in the Pacific theater. Not sure what my chances of typing this right now would have been if we had to invade mainland Japan but I bet they're not great..

[@bmurr912]

Japan and the Soviet's absolutely fought during WWII, prior to the final weeks of the war. Battle of Khalkhin Gol, in 1939, which was a decisive win by Soviet forces. C'mon man! (also, I love your videos).

[@samuelwithers2221]

That was an undeclared border conflict that both sides used to test the other's strength. Japan knew the Soviets were more powerful and backed off, and a non-aggression pact between the two existed until late 1945. Yes, there was some combat, but war only came in the final months

[@bmurr912]

@@samuelwithers2221 It was.....still a battle between two countries and their military, regardless of any declared hostilities.

[@samuelwithers2221]

@@bmurr912 There's a world of difference between a skirmish and a war. Full-scale, dedicated combat between Japan and the Soviet Union didn't occur until 1945, making any prior incidents relatively irrelevant, both geopolitically and in the context of the video. It's small potatoes, basically

[@bmurr912]

@@samuelwithers2221 You are being intentionally obtuse and difficult. The video states, and while I don't remember word for word, that Japan and the Soviets did not meet as combatants until 1945. This is undeniably false, regardless of the context of said battle. If you want to argue that it didn't matter? Go for it. If you want to argue that you couldn't get a firm grasp on the capabilities of the combatants? Also fine, go for it. But they did meet in battle. It was a resounding defeat, even considering the poor quality of the Soviet forces, for Japan. Not going to argue this anymore. The video states they did not meet in battle until 1945. That's not true. You and I both know it, regardless of how you feel about the "geopolitics" or "irrelevancy" of it.

[@kurtcobain3426]

What if the native Americans discovered Europe?

[@Vityvikt0r]

Crusader Kings 2: Sunset Invasion.

[@therejects1424]

Donald Trump But they did when the Europeans discovered the US. Maybe the diseases would have affected them faster, but either way, the diseases would kill them.

[@blitcut9712]

+Matthew Ford The Kennewick man was shown in 2015 to have most in common with current Native Americans though.

[@kaizon565]

soooo no anime

[@jamesalexander5623]

Best account of the end of the War in the Pacific : John Toland's "The Rising Sun" !

[@geoffreylee5199]

The third bomb was scheduled for Kyushu on August 19th.

[@compatriot852]

will you ever do something on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

[@danoarmstrong2597]

Did the Soviet Union posses the ability to mount and sustain an amphibious invasion of Japan? The closest they came to anything like a amphibious assault was river crossing operations. Crossing the sea and taking a beach is on a whole different level.

[@dukecraig2402]

You and everyone else who recites that narrative forgets about airborne operations, I'm not saying they would have invaded or even wanted to but you do realize that Russia is who invented airborne troops dont you? Not to mention their love and pioneering development of very large transport aircraft both then and now (well maybe not so much of lately). Dont forget, most high ranking officials in just about everyone's navy thought that a torpedo attack from aircraft in a shallow port (places like Pearl Harbor) was impossible. If anyone could have figured out how to invade an island nation without a navy it would have been the Soviets, they may have been a lot of things but stupid wasn't one of them.

[@originalyoutubenamethatsag6321]

And people say nuking japan wasn’t justified

[@noahniskala]

the thing is people ether A know that the death count will be far higher but because they are soilders and there lives are less than non combant civillians, Or B they do not know a thing and just know that the nuke death count was 100k and ignore everything else

[@dylfinn05]

What if france won the seven years war

[@orphanaccount-l8r]

Dylan Finn omg.... I need this video

[@clintross7778]

Emerald Orca same

[@carloscastrejon1940]

Dylan Finn Also, what if the French won the French and Indian War.

[@christopherkopke7593]

would you do a if 9/11 didn't happen or was prevented?

[@olliegoria]

Did that one a long time ago.

[@romaniangamer1]

Chris Kopke In my opinion 9/11 was an inside job, so it would be better *what if documents were leaked?*

[@dkiller6060]

the planes came from the OUTSIDE.

[@syntheticfox_real]

Chris Kopke Easy. No invasion of Iraq, or an invasion of a different kind. Assad would be deemed a regional threat and not international. Assad would stay in power, and Isis would not form. Assad may fall, and if he does, it would be non-American involved. Without the possible invasion of Iraq, there wouldn't be a destabilizing of the Middle East unlike today. In other words, no invasion. No Isis. No Paris attacks. No Berlin bombing. No Russia vs. America in the Middle East. Nothing. The Middle East would still have issues, but none of this would have possibly happened.

[@MichaelGarcia-jc7xk]

Synthetic Fox Inc. You are stuuupid

[@GwenS320]

Im currently reading an alternate history novel about this exact topic. It's called "1945" by Robert Conroy. It has I think probably the most likely scenario as to why Japan would not surrender. Basically after the emperor decides to surrender. ( After Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A hard right millatent faction gets the general of the Japanese army behind them and attempts a coup seasing the palace and taking the emperor and while still keeping the emperor technically in power but he becomes basically is just a figure head a forced puppet of these millatent zealots. continuing the war even after a third city is nuked. After that in order to prevent the US from nuking any more cities Japan basically starts using pows as human shields moving pow camps into the middle of large or important cities and letting the US know this so the US can't use there nukes without killing there own men. Thus downfall becomes the only option. It's a good book I highly recommend it and it's very well researched. After doing some research for example I found out that the coup by militarists in the Japanese government after the bombings actually did occur. However they couldn't get the general of the Japanese army to side with them and he subsequently crushed the coup. So the only change in this novel is that this one general joined the coup in this timeline. It's kind of freaky how history turns on the smallest things. Anyway I'd give it a read if you want it's a good book. At least thus far.

[@brendanwagner491]

Legend27 has it that if you're early Cody will reply to a new meme.

[@sumrandumguy7177]

8:02 shows Canadian flag-doesn't mention Canada... ok

[@tdlf156]

David Greenson Many of the troops would also be Filipino, Mexican, Indian, French, and Chinese

[@benitomussolini7382]

@@tdlf156 actually the us requested that Britain not use any colonial troops in the invasion of Japan so no Indian or Africans would have been involved in the operation

[@chickenadobo7649]

4:49 that's me after playing World Conqueror 3 for a long time straight and all I've done is nothing but trying to defend the last stronghold I have.

[@ConfusedFroug]

“Russia was the bigger threat”, are you sure about that...

[@AcessDBpro]

Actually, the Soviet Union, which also included several million more troops from now-Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, and other Soviet satellites. Yes, it was far bigger than today.

[@ConfusedFroug]

Michael R I do understand that U.S.S.R consisted of multiple soviet states, but my point is that the Soviet’s were not going to be able to threaten mainland japan, as they still had no plans on invading the homeland, whereas the Allies had it planned and the supplies and the logistical ability to take on such a task. The idea that Russia had to supply an entire army of millions of mean is eastern Russia seems like a logistical nightmare without even taking in account of the invasions that they would have to undergo to be more threatening than the USA

[@tremedar]

@@AcessDBpro A lot of pawns make a good supply of meat to clog up a grinder, not a professional army. They also had a total lack of merchant marine with which to deliver and supply the kind of invasion it would take to not get instantly slaughtered, putting aside that the allies(the USSR was comintern, not allies, they merely had a common enemy)would physically block the soviets from even trying to land troops on Japan. The US also had a total monopoly on nukes for four years, in that time, the soviets were far and away from being a threat.

[@dbhvvhcxjjfuvguvbn]

Michael R Russia was very week back then lol. Had numbers but no ideal what they’re doing

[@TheBacknblack92]

@@ConfusedFroug yeah the notion that japan surrendered because of russia is just revisionist history people have been pushing lately for some reason. Japan surrendered just days after we wiped two cities off the map and had a third in the pipe for Tokyo that week affectionately named the Demon Core. Russia invaded manchuria because it was basically free real estate. Given Russias losses to Germany there is no way they want an invasion of mainland Japan. So they can lose even more troops and armor which will hurt them with their hold on Europe? At worst the soviets invade china and put mao on the throne as a puppet but russia still keeps manchuria. China ends up more like north korea than china but in this timeline north korea is just korea