Alternative Concepts of God | Episode 1104 | Closer To Truth

Philosophers explore novel ideas of what God may be like. They challenge classical theism, the personal creator of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Featuring interviews with Yujin Nagasawa, Marcel Sarot, Willem Drees, John Bishop, and Eric Steinhart.
Season 11, Episode 4 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#God #Religion

[@ankitbko]

How can you explore alternatives concepts of god without delving into any of the non-abrahamic religion that like hinduism, budhism, sikhism, jainism etc?

[@markkolenski9502]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!! Note that it is all old white men.

[@jjt1881]

It makes sense. However, we are talking about different ideas of what God is from a philosophical point of view.

[@sanjivgupta1418]

This is the main problem with, rather limitation of, discussions in this series. If you wish to answer problems at the interface of science and philosophy, you can not reach a meaningful reasoning unless you dwelve into Abrahamic and Non- Abrahamic philosophies alike. Keeping self stalled deep in the Christian and Papal philosophy and wandering for answers in really a half- hearted exercise.

[@1stPrinciples455]

While its intuitive to think that someone created the universe, thats not a must. Whats intuitive need not be true. The universe can be just existing without a beginning or its created not by anyone. Why would god create a tiny speck in the universe just to be morally right? That said, we still cannpt prove either way and therefore, being Agnostic is the right position to be in although its more satisfying to some to believe in whatever they believe.

[@themanofshadows]

@@markkolenski9502 Boo hoo.

[@wendellwiggins3776]

It's very simple. Nature is ALL that there is, is all you'll ever be able to experience, contemplate or know. GOD is what we are experiencing. No "Belief" required! I noticed while very young that Nature was where I felt the most Loved and where I felt closest to the Forces of Life. With this perception, we can See all as manifestations of divinity where ALL is connected and interwoven through Time and Space. Knowing that ALL is ONE gives a deeper appreciation for Nature & Life. For the Natural Uni-verse is THE ONE that we all have in common. All those fears of being distant, detached and separated from The Divine are removed when realizing we are aspects of total divinity. If this was our overstanding many of the problems, anxiety, anger and conflicts would be diminished. The false delusiond of various Santa Claus gods only create doubts and conflicts as history has proven. In agreeing on what ties us together in this WEB of LIFE cycle could help keep this beautiful Plamet Home sustainable for all Earthlings

[@dennyworthington6641]

I agree with you my friend. Sounds like you've been reading my favorite philosopher, Spinoza.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

God is love, kindness, knowledge, compassion, fairness, beauty...etc.

[@chmd22]

Cute, but what about the ugliness in the world. Who owns that?

[@Seekthetruth3000]

@@chmd22 Good question. Zoroastrianism has an answer for that: There are two creative forces in the universe, one is Ahriman/evil responsible for all the ugliness and the other one is Ahuramazda responsible for all the good stuff. They have been fighting each other for ever but, one day the forces of good will defeat the forces of evil. It is a good philosophy.

[@63302426]

Just put a bunch cute words together and label them "God" or whatever means basically nothing. If those good psychological qualities are simply God per se, then there is no need to talk about "God" and we should just stick to those words.

[@edwardandrade4390]

None can be tested... there's no formula or machine to replicate anything of this. No offense given

[@4L3PH4]

That's very mundane. Surely you can do better.

[@robertjkuklajr3175]

Thank you very much Dr. Kuhn for exploring this aspect of "God"!!

[@robertjkuklajr3175]

@Stefano Portoghesi i think all of the answers lie within our beings. Questions that are asked are important to a greater understanding of why we are here, who we are and the meaning of it all. I can only speak for myself in my undetstanding of a god. I dont like religion perse for myself, but dont fault anyone for their beleif in whatever, whoever keeps them within the bounds of their own sanity. Some journeys take a group (religion), some are individual and some require seeking of knowledge over beleif. I think all 3 are very important to the person with whom these inquiries are pertinent.

[@paulbrocklehurst7253]

Like Christopher Hitchens said - he _loves_ listening to believers talking about God because you never know what they are going to say next!

[@bradwhelan4466]

🤣

[@LibsRockU]

Yeahcchhh-buginthroat, fundamentalists of every stripe have a need to decide, not just for themselves, for YOU also, that they 'know', & you don't.

[@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo]

I loved listening to Hitchens arguments but i think he was wrong on his hard line anti-theist stance, there's mystery to overcome there's so much we don't know or understand, nothing can be ruled out.

[@JDLuke]

I have the actual truth, and I'll be glad to share it with you (for a fee), but that's the only way for you to achieve happiness.

[@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo]

@Stranger The words of an idiot.

[@raonanduri5490]

I search in vain for concepts of God from non-Western civilizations and cultures in these episodes. They may have something valuable to say. Being stuck with the idea of God as a person, a Creator, having attributes of love, hate etc., God having a body, location, being the universe, within the universe, outside the universe, directing events, all these concepts, while interesting, are not really satisfactory. Who is asking all these questions and formulating concepts? Consciousness is the source of all ideas and concepts. Again, all discussion about nature and location of consciousness is also a product of consciousness. I wonder if Albert Schweitzer was weighed down by all the concepts of God before he decided once and for all that the supreme purpose and value of his life was to serve his fellow humans and make the world as he found it a little better. Perhaps his worldview transcended even Christian faith. God is beyond comprehension and description. Any human description, concept, or idea of God falls short of . Let us know more about Body, brain, mind, and consciousness. Then we might be closer to Truth.

[@wfahrenkrug5887]

I think Albert Schweitzer had valid point. Doing what enhances life, caring for all life, treating it as of great value, being a life-giver seems like a good way to live one's life. There are many ways in which one can do this. We all know when we do good, and we all know when we don't. You don't need "high degrees" of learning to know this. You "experience" it. Whatever "power" or "creator spirit" is behind this, I think and feel that it is manifesting its "Being-ness" through all that is, and we all seem to have an intuition of compassion, wonder, and awe toward life. We all want to know that we matter, that we are of value for no other reason than that "we are", so lets treat each other as if this is so.

[@dogsbollox4335]

My mind is like mush trying to figure out reality ,I just can't cope no more.

[@cesarc9594]

@To R There is more wisdom and truth in what you have said than perhaps you realize.

[@dogsbollox4335]

Maybe I agree.thank you.

[@dogsbollox4335]

Dirtlaw 502 it's just this planet has dark times ahead and do you really think there is any meaning to all of this and thanks mate.

[@affel6559]

@@dogsbollox4335 Check out the Thomistic Institute, Bishop Barron, Classical Theist on youtube if you are interested in the Catholic perspective. God bless!

[@Two_But_Not_Two]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ3EoIVropl_bpI

[@linasmarcinkevicius]

Thank you! 🌟GOD Bless you all!

[@gmotionedc5412]

The endless debate continues. Fascinating

[@stephenmason5682]

Repetitive!

[@dennyworthington6641]

Accept "brute fact naturalism" Robert. You'll not only get closer to truth, you'll hit it spot on.

[@rl7012]

That is the furthest from truth possible.

[@tyamada21]

A piece from a new book titled: Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach into the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlie all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law which allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice verse. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment of time than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to between making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, or producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always to respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result from any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things in a conventional way - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life - including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream - already exists within us.

[@raonanduri5490]

Very interesting ideas.

[@hetornhetorn]

A wonderful mantra. It fixes your thougths to connect with Reality, and stop living in the limited fantasy of mind.

[@Joker25076]

I like the series. But why are there so many issues with sound in it... sometimes it's not in sync (like in this one), sometimes the volume is too low... regarding the production looking pretty high standard I don't get why the uploads here are so flawed.

[@kierharris976]

I'm just grateful for the content

[@ravenous071]

man, what a crossover it would have been if Dr. Robert Lawrence Kuhn had a conversation with Art Bell..

[@brandonjohnson801]

In my opinion, and to avoid as much nuance as possible, because I believe this is just the surface of my undertanding and much nuances exist and also admitting I could be 100% wrong. God is everything and everything is God. God is all of the above. God is light. God is a partical and a wave at the same time, but also in all times. God is the sunshine we percievie and make sense of the world around us, our collective reality if you will, but also running the photons of light zipping through our brain and body, creating our individual thoughts and reality.

[@borderlands6606]

Isn't panentheism synonymous with most credible arguments for God? That is to say the universe is part of God, but does not exhaust what God is? The alternatives, that God is a superhero looking on disapprovingly from outside his creation, seems too like the worst of human nature, not divine. That God made the universe but washed his hands of it and retired to heaven, seems equally facile. If we are conscious, and not suffering an organised delusion of consciousness, a pan-conscious God would seem inevitable.

[@youthresist8956]

You didn’t really give an argument for why God would have to be part of the universe, that just seems arbitrary.

[@throwabrick]

I agree, I find Spinozan Panentheism the most satisfactory model of divinity. Throw in Teilhard and William Gibson... ;)

[@borderlands6606]

@@youthresist8956 The argument is whether consciousness is a delusion or not. If it is a delusion, all conclusions that follow from it must be suspect. You can't conjure a real phenomenon from an epiphenomenon, it's biology "all the way down". If it isn't a delusion, what manner of thing is it? If I am truly conscious, and solipsism doesn't address the apparent consciousness of others, consciousness may be fundamental. Fundamental consciousness sounds sufficiently like descriptions of God. If consciousness is localised sparks and chemistry doing its thing, the true nature of reality must be beyond its purview.

[@durosempre4470]

If 1) God exists and 2) He's omnipotent, then He must encompass infinite paradoxes. For example, He's everything and nothing simultaneously. He encompasses and animates everything that exists (universe, multiverse, whatever) and yet has nothing to do with any of it. This could also help explain how each one of us is a spark of the Divine -- seemingly autonomous sentient creatures that in some way are objects generated and sustained by His imagination. On that level, existence might be entirely solipsistic. Panentheism strikes a chord with me. I imagine it's analogous to a person during sleep. His body still exists, and he'll reclaim control of it in the morning, but for the time being his consciousness exists in a non-physical realm that transcends his body.

[@borderlands6606]

@@durosempre4470 I disagree that existence is solipsistic, other people behave and respond sufficiently like me to infer they have an independent existence. The question is how exhaustive that reality is?

[@casnimot]

You've probably seen this before, but here goes anyhow: My 'h' (might just be hunch) is that experience is conserved, collects and becomes agent in itself (little 'g' ontogeny). I suspect that space-time is flat and Einstein might've been closer to right than anyone thought. I suspect that all the rules, continuous or discrete, lead to complexity and experiencing animals like us. The purpose of which is to further collect and grow in strength and awareness. This permits the ghastliest of evil along the way, along with everything else. But it favors the good and us wanting/trying to be better, especially if the collective agency of those choices like itself better because of those choices. I kick around the idea that space-time is the carrier for conserved experience, but that's because I don't want to run with mass/gravity just yet and anything beyond is that much further beyond me. Either way, I think it pays to remember that the paper isn't the story, the alphabet isn't the language.

[@robertflynn6686]

I think you found your elements on that trip, Robert Kuhn. Why can't we just trust the quark reality and include supersymmetric squarks for our gods.

[@milesandrews3686]

Steinhart's view reminds me of David Ray Griffin's "God Exists but Gawd Does Not," only on his view it would be "Gods exist but POG does not."

[@Scribe13013]

Like a yin yang that encompasses everything...the dots in it are eyes...one of the eyes is pretty and pristine like a little baby eye...the other eye is...horrendous..a dirty window that has gazed upon epochs of pain...

[@firstnamesurname6550]

Before trying to talk/think deductively about That ... Why not try with inductive extreme thoughts like what are the boundaries of The Human's Imagination? or Could the human imagination conceives how Eternal Entities would be? or What could happen with contingency and time in an Eternal Domain? or If you - suddenly - becomes an immortal eternal Being ...What would you do? ... What is easier? To Teach a Chimp to learn how to be like a Human ... or To teach a Human to learn how to be like a Chimp ...

[@xspotbox4400]

Altered states, return to primordial consciousness and reverse course of natural mutations.

[@PaulHoward108]

I wonder if Mr. Kuhn will ever talk to someone who follows Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It's the chief book of the Vedas, older than the Bible, and describes the absolute truth in detail as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but I guess he would think of it as "alternative."

[@ferdinandkraft857]

Your truth is no more "absolute" than anybody else's.

[@PaulHoward108]

@@ferdinandkraft857 Why do you characterize Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as mine? I didn't write it, but I recommend starting from the beginning: Www.vedabase.io/en/library/sb

[@Solidude4]

Yes he would think of it as alternative. I think the idea of conceiving such conceptions of God as 'alternative' is so Western-centric, as if Abrahamic conceptions of God are the standard or default. The more I follow Kuhn's show the more I realise how Eurocentric the philosophy and theology he pursues or explores is. If he's going to search for truth he needs to widen his perspective.

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works.

[@tac6044]

We are all the same being in the most literal sense. We are God.

[@hazardousmaterials1284]

I’ve really enjoyed these videos, and the deeper considerations of life they’ve invoked. My own theology and my understanding of this world’s purposes (and our own) have been in a state of flux - a letting go of what I thought I accepted as true. It’s good to hear others speak of coming to terms with these mysteries too.

[@jackieswan422]

God is simply the universe

[@4L3PH4]

God suddenly appeared before me while I watched this video. He looked like a container of cleaning fluid. Oh wait, that was an advert...

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

These contents are so exhilarating.

[@covenantsoul8027]

You have to go with a Creator-God, because otherwise you still have the issue of where the universe came from, because it cannot be eternal. A Creator can be eternal, because he transcends space and time.

[@irfanmehmud63]

There is a concept of God in some eastern philosophies that God is a Cosmic source or potential that actualized itself in the form of universe and everything within it... and now God is evolving through the universe to perfect itself. I don't know what label is there for such an immanent and evolving God!

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

God could be embodied on earth in humanity, in universe by life with conscious experience.

[@CandidDate]

I am God, you are God, did I miss anyone? Oh, the Devil, he's food for thought.

[@mikeq5807]

I am. That includes the devil. There is nothing that I am not.

[@nathanbell6962]

@Zameen Z globalnews.ca/news/6974584/death-angel-drummer-will-carroll-met-satan-coronavirus-coma/

[@spiralsun1]

Actually pretty close. However I actually know what GOD is, what we call the devil is and etc. My friend Jordan Peterson gets you most of the way there against the backdrop of modern science and information. However, he stops short of a foundational theory. That’s where I come in. I pretty much know what all humans, really all life, has been looking for. We all keep stopping short. Fear, ego, whatever it is. That’s what we call it anyway. But the universe itself is a story in Textbook format. Our lives are inside this information structure and mirror of metaphor and allegory for GOD. You must have a sacrificial mindset and an extremely no existent ego state which involves an extremely high tolerance for pain. Like you don’t even notice what would be catastrophic to others. To me, god has an immense tolerance for pain in order to give birth to the universe inside it. In order to love, you must be able to withstand the pain that comes from it, the vulnerability, the inevitable death of what you love. To carve yourself up into a billion years and a billion personalities. The love of god is us. It’s not just in us. That’s a huge difference. To say that I am the love of god from the beginning of time, and to be able to bear any task or pain set before you. You really cannot talk about god without a bed of nails you are willing to lay down onto. Without the lances piercing the martyrs to show god that the love is mutual. This magnitude of love heals the world. Even greater is to thrive with this knowledge and love. To throw down the things that distract you and create something perfect in the eyes of the universe. To stand like a blue flame in darkness beset all around by the winds of chaos and to not go out. To be the pilot light of creation upon which it turns. This is love of god. This is the god of love on Earth.

[@kennethcook8857]

Pantheism has no real problem with the "age of God" if one focuses on the concept of "God" being the eternal, indestructible "energy" that is currently in the FORM of this universe as we know it.

[@ac-uk6hs]

You got a fundamental misunderstanding I forgot if you're assuming that when the Big Bang started he started. It's a basic fundamental flaw in your education if you believe that. It's a disappointment that the interviewer didn't catch that fail

[@durosempre4470]

I love Closer To Truth, but is this really a "new" episode? Wasn't this uploaded about a month ago?

[@glenemma1]

God is personal. You are God. You can't get more personal than that. You know yourself as 'me'. This is God. Everything is ME Even in the absence of things, there is still Me.

[@lucianmaximus4741]

Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽

[@bobbabai]

In all of these interviews, the burning question that never seems to get asked (or answered) is, "what does the use of the term God add to any of them?"

[@andrewlicciardo7480]

Another great video! Please re sync up the video with the audio, it is off by a bit & doesn't match up.

[@haiedd4222]

Entanglement believed there is a main source or nothing is created or destroyed. They are still living and much more advanced.

[@dizzle7558]

Mind officially blown😳💨..

[@Editthem]

What if we are the primordial god.. and that’s what makes god so big that he make himself become the lowest of them all. Also it’s what makes god so complex and unique, mysterious.

[@throwabrick]

Pity you left out Spinozan Panentheism.

[@simpleguy38]

He was a pantheist

[@richardmooney383]

There are as many concepts of God as there are believers in God. Actually, come to think of it, there are more, because even non-believers have concepts of God and each of them is unique as well.

[@azurelad236]

GOD...Good Open-minded Dialogue...God is the question of God not the temporary destiny of God found in an answer to the question.

[@bobbabai]

Yujin Nakasawa: "Theism provides a reason for the existence of the universe" No, it doesn't. It can't do that if it doesn't demonstrate that the God of a particular theism exists and has influence. At best, theism provides a claim for the reason the universe exists.

[@jimmcgreehan3624]

Remember Lawrence don't dichotomize reality (science and religion); the physical needs the metaphysical and vice versa. For example to produce human sentience it requires physical neurons resulting in the emotive feelings of one's Will (self-awareness, etc.) which cannot be explained exclusively by material properties themselves. Or, think of the properties of Time; what is time? Or mathematics, so on and so forth. 3017 Metaphysician

[@CandidDate]

Believe or not believe, there is no in between.

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works, the concept of God is that God is not a supernatural being like we see in superhero movies

[@andrewa3103]

God exists. I would delete my writings if I feel there is no appreciation or curiosity. Or may decide to ignore writing in the first place. I do not write only to help others, as I live in this society. Yet my writings are about challenging, or I may have different theories or solutions to the question or statements of others. Metaphysician philosopher

[@stellabella8224]

God is Love and anyone who has real love in their heart has a part of God which is most powerful. The more people love, the more God is manifested in the world. If everyone becomes love then God is every where and we become ONE with the "All" the true reality.

[@MrDogonjon]

The most popular competing concept to god is more gods. Darwins natural selection does not compete with god but is the right answer.

[@orbital14]

7 billions people on the planet and each of them can come up with a more or less sophisticated idea of what they think god is or isn't...not much to gain from that in terms of understanding reality

[@aug2890]

No solid experimental facts, it is only descriptive, it is guess.

[@tedgrant2]

Have you noticed that God is very fond of lightning

[@Joeybeanstar]

I think if you can imagine God fully then he isn’t God. God is unimaginable and mysterious

[@ijustam7065]

Please read Law of One and listen to Alan Watts lectures. I found them very interesting.

[@myscifichannel3606]

It's gods all the way down.

[@4L3PH4]

Wooly logic based on foundations of sand.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

God conscious reality brings together science of universe / cosmos and human experience.

[@gregorycrocker5977]

PLEASE GO AND WATCH " THE BEST MOVIE EXPLAINING THE FLOOD" AND KEN HAM "SCIENCE CONFIRMS THE BIBLE" BY: ANSWERS IN GENESIS. I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU IN SOME POSITIVE WAY.

[@stephenmason5682]

They can't ALL be right, BUT they ALL can be wrong? Best keave them to their own disagreement!

[@monoman4083]

An infinite regress of gods, but who started it all.

[@shahayleiwelch9997]

THE TRUTH IS WE ALL 👨‍👨‍👦 MUST 💔 BREAK IN ❤ AND 🙇 BOW OUT.AND THE GRACE OF GOD IS SUFICIENT. WETHER ITS AT HOME 🏡 AT WORK AT CHURCH ⛪ OR IN THE COMMUNITY. AND 👨‍👨‍👦 WHO 👀 SEES IT ❤EARLY ☀ SEES 👁‍🗨 REALITY 💔 .

[@paulryan2128]

Bunch of thoughtful people have alot of beliefs, then there's a bunch of commercials.

[@xspotbox4400]

Jesus didn't know he was a God, he kinda suspect he might be, but wasn't sure this was a right way to explain what he felt deep down inside. Perhaps one of us is another incarnation of God, waiting for his potential to wake up and remember the message he wanted to leave behind for us this time. It's an interesting dogma, if God did it once, he might do it over and over again, this way of communicating with humans feels nice, pristine and somehow personal, compared to a burning, talking bushes and such.

[@CandidDate]

Kind of like talking on a computer with spell and grammar check, no less.

[@invisiblechurch9621]

Many people have mystical experiences and come back thinking they are God.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@invisiblechurch9621 That reminds me on Oppenheimer's quote: "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds." See, he didn't think we became gods of a different country beyond mountain of knowledge, with that last step we became it's death.

[@invisiblechurch9621]

@@xspotbox4400 When having a mystical or religious experience you often have visions and a perspective of the world vastly different than you normally do that often makes more sense. Often people mistakenly come to the conclusion that they are God then you in fact brainwash yourself into that belief. It happened to a guy I know on LSD later he became a psychologist Lol. You see it happen all through history maybe even Jesus.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@invisiblechurch9621 We should examine this story in reverse than, did African ideology about a human God made people into believing they can be like that? I mean, nobody was thinking he's like Jesus before it happened to Jesus, so it all started 2.000 years ago, this mental condition didn't exist before that. But if ideology can produce such a powerful trans, what are we doing, are we even aware certain ideas makes humans transcend over animal nature and evolve unknown psychological condition? Like all curses, nothing is good or bad by itself, if it works, cultivating certain mental abilities could improve human condition in general.

[@vireshhughes8918]

Pantheism does not have a problem regarding God’s age. The universe was not created out of nothing, but simply the inflation of the eternal singularity.

[@bjlyon615]

But where did that first simple god come from?

[@simpleguy38]

Infinite regress

[@mintakan003]

Uh, OK. Try this one out for size, as yet another alternative view of God. "God" is what gives human life value. It gives the direction of life that leads to the most fulfillment. In the New Testament, it is said that "God is Love". That's abstract. But Christianity is also concrete. When you give a thirsty neighbor a glass of water, Jesus says, it is as if one has done it to him. People who have had NDE's also said that God doesn't care what you believe. All that matters is whether one has been loving, to oneself, to one's neighbors. Love and learn. That's most of what human life is about. - The actual beliefs have varied throughout history, throughout time. They range from highly anthropomorphized (e.g. Old Testament) to more abstract and philosophical (e.g. Vedanta), based on what people are able to understand. But the moral core is always there. This also raises the question of transcendental values, such as the good, true, and beautiful (Platonism?). Also questions about teleology, or an attractor function in human evolution? - As for a God that explains the universe, this is probably a lost cause. First, science is better at this than theology (or philosophy) will ever be. Mainly because we can come up with tons of ideas about things, and never resolve them. But science is the discipline that does the actual looking, measurement, experimentation, interaction in the world, to see what the real deal is. While not perfect, it is the closest we have to a true epistemological method. - Second, a God as explainer of physical systems (e.g. "first mover"), doesn't really move people. So what? This is not a the level that ultimately matters to most people. The "God" that really fulfills, is at the level of the psyche. (Maybe I should invoke Jung? I also realize it renders some issues to orthogonality, as well as a kind of agnosticism to the larger questions pertaining to the origins of the universe.)

[@polsick]

God is a civilization, that reached at least level 4 on the Kardashev scale.

[@seel9050]

If the original source of the universe is infinite, or is the infinite “space-time singularity” where the big bang came from, and if there are potentially infinite universes as also speculated in science, then maybe pantheism doesn't need to consider the concept of God as having an age. Maybe the answer is simply that you can't have any plus without a relative minus, so you can't create anything less than infinite without it being more than nothing. And if the original source really is infinite, can we dismiss any concept of God, or gods, lightly.

[@xspotbox4400]

Everything - everything = God, but... Everything - everything also = pure evil

[@HouseofRecordsTacoma]

A species far in technological advance from us, what's their concept? Would they de-invent God?

[@hetornhetorn]

They would pretty much make cohesive all of the seemingly "different" interpretations of God here on Earth, and it necessarily takes base on consciousness and mind.

[@simpleguy38]

Wait till we find intelligent Aliens

[@catherinemoore9534]

Made me laugh... It's like being invited to a smogabord of Gods where none of the guests are sure whether any of the Gods are edible... The idea of God and values being the fuel of reality isn't new.

[@xspotbox4400]

There are all kinds of things and stuff in this universe, but God choose to see only good in his creation.

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works.

[@jeremymr]

9:08 - MMM HMM!

[@avisjohnson35]

God became man, so man could become God. And all the supper is coming from man. It has nothing to do with God. He's allowing you to experience yourself in a physical way in a dual. Distinct environment with good and bad. Happy sad up-and-down a lesson to be learned. But man has made man suffer

[@cvsree]

God is everything perceived and beyond There is nothing that is not God If we think we have a distinct identity, it's our mistake. This mistake is the seed for evil.

[@xspotbox4400]

A living spirit without a body, perhaps God wants to go back into his lamp.

[@warrenpanabang3341]

Like the galaxy and the universe, this world we're in is also a god as it is a living one. the world as a god is in need of help because he is ill about the garbage scattered all over the earth. The existence of god is engraved in the spirit of Man so we donot have to believe but live with it. Suffer we will without god and rewarded we are with god. Theism is natured to Man but we can choose not to show our belief.

[@MOHAMMADAKBARKHANEPGDIB-]

Why does the entire World programmed to do good and expect to get good out of it? In other words, why is honesty, sincerity, kindness, sympathy, and the act of doing right things mostly show good results?? Why is all these good things connected to religion?? Your own existence and the rush within you to do the right thing in the right way with most of it ending up with good results is by itself evidence of the existence of God. On the other hand, doing wrong and always ending up with bad results is also a significant indication of the existence of God. This World is divided between Good and Bad and there is no room for frustrated Atheists'.

[@matterasmachine]

god was first discrete robot that was doing it's copies. World is something line algorithmic portal - self building robot

[@mahmoudsupes2461]

God is not like us he's different and there's nothing like him. he created this life as a test for us. he allows suffering because it help us see things differently some people get better some people get worse and it's just a tool. but all of this won't be for nothing because he knows how to cure it as if it never was. maybe this temporary suffering saved you from a much painful path.

[@therealParisHilton]

The last view by the philosopher who is talking about little gods and bigger gods leading to primordial GOD this concept correlates perfectly with theoretical physicist Micho Kako about the concept of advanced civilizations in the universe as well as the concept of the movie Prometheus!

[@robertjkuklajr3175]

Why would we think because the universe started. that God started then?

[@jkang471]

If there is no human beings in the universe, can we still talk about god?

[@MadderMel]

Philosophers in Birmingham England ?? ...Did they take a wrong turn ?

[@pauls2613]

Pantheism does not need god to have an age. Perhaps the universe is on an infinite cycle. We simply do not know enough. Just saying.

[@arthurwieczorek4894]

Shermer's Last Law.

[@newmankidman5763]

Testing

[@LucianTSkeptic]

That haircut is proof there is no POG.

[@manuelweihrauch9790]

I would have loved seeing a Tibetan Lama being interviewed. There is no God in Buddhism or Bön, but the concept of Dharmakaya or Bodhicitta, as in the All-Creating-King-Sutra, is mind expanding.

[@Ploskkky]

Ah, it is time again to fantasize about invisible friends. Robert, you should interview a dock worker, or a gardener, or a plumber about the topic. Their fantasies are just as valid.

[@jeffamos9854]

Mr Kuhn should interview me. I have awesome fantasies. Might be X rated.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@jeffamos9854 Tell us more about your cat, it's very interesting how it act and think, not common for cats.

[@jeffamos9854]

Xspot box “ not common” lol. That’s because I am pulling stuff out of my butt and making it up. I do have a black cat. Name is freeway. Found him on the freeway when he was a kitten. Fun to make quip remarks about my cat. No deep thinking. Can’t think of one today.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@jeffamos9854 Hey, that's a great revelation, i heard something squicking and squiling behind me when riding a bicycle at night yesterday. It was a very small kitten, on his first voyage into a big and lonely world. Was rubbing against tire of my bike and wanted me to notice him, so i took a piece of cheese i bought in a shop and give it to him, but he didn't care about that food. Maybe i got it wrong, cheese is a milk kinda, but it's in solid shape, not sure if cat so small can chew. Then i took both kitten and cheese in my hand and drop them in grass over to a nearest house. I figured perhaps a mouse will come and eat that piece of cheese, than kitten can catch a mouse and eat it.

[@LeventeCzelnai]

u are that type of atheist whose counterpart is a creationist on the other side.

[@Magik1369]

Panentheism is closest to the Truth. The Divine is both immanent in creation and transcendent. The imminent Divine is contained within but evolving out of matter. There are 2 currents...involution (the Divine involving itself in matter) and evolution (the Divine evolving out of matter). There is a spark of the Divine inside every living Being. In humans, this Divine Spark is located deep inside the heart. It is possible to experience the Divine Source directly in meditation and in higher states of consciousness. I would encourage you to read Jung, Wilber, Washburn, and the mystics. People have been experiencing direct encounters with the Divine from the beginning. Myself included. That our Universe is 15 billion years old does not mean that the Divine is 15 billion year old. That is ridiculous. There are as many Universes as there are grains of sand.

[@richardmooney383]

In one way or another these people seem to be looking for gaps in naturalistic understanding for their God to fit into. Why can't they just accept that "nobody knows"?

[@piehound]

@ about 10:40 the idea of God having a body. I ask . . . IF A BODY MEET A BODY COMING THROUGH THE RYE NEED A BODY KISS A BODY ???

[@TheBruces56]

The bottom line is that God, in whatever form, either exists or doesn't. What anybody thinks on the matter has no impact on the truth.

[@anteodedi8937]

As an atheist I tend to agree with Leftow in the end. These guys keep talking about god but only the word "god" is left there. What they describe is not really god.

[@SebastianTorres22]

The last one is pretty much gnosticism. Archeons, demiurgs etc..

[@iachtulhu1420]

Similar, but his view is more naturalized, more process-oriented neoplatonism, which he says in his writings.

[@rayomaro549]

If God all ready interduce himself true his creation including all of us being port of his creation?who are those people to talk about God . When I look at myself and the universe that is so in order so program so clear and profound. And he teaching us true his creation about here and the here after ALLAH is Great. I am a good Christian now i fallow Mohammad because Jesus advice me to.

[@MrDooDitty]

The Big G likely has delegated autonomous little G's that require tweaking from time to time as Big G continues to facilitate his own creativity. Once all limits are reached, the process continues beyond dimensions of space and physicality to form more of the same infinitely. Worlds within worlds is only a single direction of growth that we might presume however, big G in its infinite bag of divine options certainly reached any perceivable limit we can imagine and continued to forge reality beyond our ability to imagine. If Big G has always been and always will be such that there has never been a time in that he never existed, he has had a lot of time to become stagnated in ideas as to how to be creative by nature. Assuming boredom isn't an option in Big G's continuous everlasting and endless for which a beginning never existed, I assume autonomous appointment of little G's maintain and manage what has been created while Big G continues divine creation beyond our conceivable thoughts. As we learn to exist and understand, our consciousness becomes qualified to be appointed an apprenticeship for a never ending and growing number of job vacancies for aspiring little G's. I'm sure the Christmas Party attendance grows exponentially lol. Assuming fellowship is big G's guiding purpose would be short sighted in my opinion. A need to creat for the sake of learning is also counterintuitive so, what reason might there be for which infinite creation continues. Repetition ignites boredom but so does creativity for the sake of creativity itself. Might this perpetual machine just be following its programming and actually have had a point at which it was turned on? Machines don't get bored. Limitless layers to an unanswerable question is depressing and the original creator may be so well hidden deep within the fabric of it all that, unless big G reveals himself, we can never know. So, might he have done just that already? One day we will either know or we won't know the difference. We will have to wait and see for ourselves. It's a personal journey till that moment arrives. I doubt a Little G will break the silence either. I'm sure there is something continuous about each of us after physical death. Knowing would effect our education process so, trusting the process seems intuitive to me. What choice do we have anyway. Think Big !

[@xspotbox4400]

Emotional God, perhaps this is what drove Devil insane and he rebelled against that maniac.

[@xspotbox4400]

@DOC TOR You might be on to something there, humans simply forgot we're animals basically. And that's very strange when you think about it, we denied our nature and filled our heads with ideas and illusions. We understand our civilizations and cultures are not natural, but they're not a blunder either, universe is like that deep down or no animal could ever achieve global consciousness. Problem is, when does it became to much, there are no solid grounds up there or down here, how far can we temper with natural environment and basic instincts before our mental sphere will rich thresholds of abomination. But if nature will not stop us, Devil is nothing compared to what humans will do with this universe.

[@kpllc4209]

@@xspotbox4400 We forgot we are animals because we have believed strange ideas about immortal souls, free will and being made in God's image. Man is apart of nature and anything man does logically is natural, man is not a kingdom within a kingdom.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@kpllc4209 Interesting, but what is the core of our failure exactly, what is that single one thing we got it so wrong? I think we are different than animals because we believe in things that does not exist and share collective hallucinations emerging from language and other symbols. What is a word than, it's something we learned at very young age and exist in structure of our brains. But words doesn't relate to anything real, have nothing to do with universe as is, they are just special kind of noise, existing only in our illusive conscious sphere. Can't pull word out of a head, it's not in cells, words emerge from structural activity. You said kingdom within a kingdom, it's like nature is taking some shape and this physics is reflecting back to nature somehow. If thing exist, so does the universe, because thing believe universe must be real or thing couldn't exist. Can we apply same chain of reasoning to our mental abilities? This is where things get complicated, it's easy to understand why body exist, it's an object and universe is full of objects, so it can exist, just like everything else material can. But conscious sphere is not like that, it doesn't have universal origins, we are not intelligent because electricity around us is intelligent. And it's not a symbol either, word is just a sound, a shape, a physical phenomena doesn't contain any meaningful substance. Our abilities emerge from biology, nature is shaping molecules, so it can grow and replicate, must find optimal states of energy to maintain it's structure. This means mind is not a miracle, but our culture is, the way we share emotions and knowledge makes us special state of animal kind of matter. Human consciousness is a kingdom in a way, so question is, what kind of physics is it and who is the king?

[@kpllc4209]

@@xspotbox4400 Things went "wrong " in my opinion partially due to our intelligence which is an amazing ability to keep us alive and life wants to live. We are able to differentiate so well between objects and ideas that we forget that we are nothing more than extensions of the natural world. The self is another important tool for an organisms survival but along with our intelligence we are like children with loaded guns. Consciousness as far as we know is the result of physical forces, the same forces that have created you and the world around you, it is a seamless machine.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@kpllc4209 A will to live, not the power of the will, this is an interesting proposition because people are often confused about what drives them to overcome daily obstacles. In matter of fact, entire human civilization is build around idea nobody wants to die, not in a stupid way at least. It still happens ever so often, this is why Darwin awards page exist and what makes most lives seems so average. Extremes are balanced out and we're left with general boredom. Why people care about how they'll die, it's not like anything that happens after will be of their concern. It's because we're aware of holistic flow, if people are presented with a choice, they'll rather choose better, less stressful and more productive way to go, preserving their precious possessions for continuation of a magical chain of physical events. It's not all about entropy and resistance after all.

[@xspotbox4400]

Universe is a body of God, no wonder everything brakes and never work as it suppose to.

[@ledgermanager]

universe good for life? nah..pretty hostile imho