Alternative Concepts of God | Episode 1104 | Closer To Truth

Philosophers explore novel ideas of what God may be like. They challenge classical theism, the personal creator of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Featuring interviews with Yujin Nagasawa, Marcel Sarot, Willem Drees, John Bishop, and Eric Steinhart.
Season 11, Episode 4 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#God #Religion

[@ankitbko]

How can you explore alternatives concepts of god without delving into any of the non-abrahamic religion that like hinduism, budhism, sikhism, jainism etc?

[@markkolenski9502]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!! Note that it is all old white men.

[@jjt1881]

It makes sense. However, we are talking about different ideas of what God is from a philosophical point of view.

[@sanjivgupta1418]

This is the main problem with, rather limitation of, discussions in this series. If you wish to answer problems at the interface of science and philosophy, you can not reach a meaningful reasoning unless you dwelve into Abrahamic and Non- Abrahamic philosophies alike. Keeping self stalled deep in the Christian and Papal philosophy and wandering for answers in really a half- hearted exercise.

[@1stPrinciples455]

While its intuitive to think that someone created the universe, thats not a must. Whats intuitive need not be true. The universe can be just existing without a beginning or its created not by anyone. Why would god create a tiny speck in the universe just to be morally right? That said, we still cannpt prove either way and therefore, being Agnostic is the right position to be in although its more satisfying to some to believe in whatever they believe.

[@themanofshadows]

@@markkolenski9502 Boo hoo.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

God is love, kindness, knowledge, compassion, fairness, beauty...etc.

[@chmd22]

Cute, but what about the ugliness in the world. Who owns that?

[@Seekthetruth3000]

@@chmd22 Good question. Zoroastrianism has an answer for that: There are two creative forces in the universe, one is Ahriman/evil responsible for all the ugliness and the other one is Ahuramazda responsible for all the good stuff. They have been fighting each other for ever but, one day the forces of good will defeat the forces of evil. It is a good philosophy.

[@63302426]

Just put a bunch cute words together and label them "God" or whatever means basically nothing. If those good psychological qualities are simply God per se, then there is no need to talk about "God" and we should just stick to those words.

[@edwardandrade4390]

None can be tested... there's no formula or machine to replicate anything of this. No offense given

[@4L3PH4]

That's very mundane. Surely you can do better.

[@linasmarcinkevicius]

Thank you! 🌟GOD Bless you all!

[@gmotionedc5412]

The endless debate continues. Fascinating

[@stephenmason5682]

Repetitive!

[@paulbrocklehurst7253]

Like Christopher Hitchens said - he _loves_ listening to believers talking about God because you never know what they are going to say next!

[@bradwhelan4466]

🤣

[@LibsRockU]

Yeahcchhh-buginthroat, fundamentalists of every stripe have a need to decide, not just for themselves, for YOU also, that they 'know', & you don't.

[@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo]

I loved listening to Hitchens arguments but i think he was wrong on his hard line anti-theist stance, there's mystery to overcome there's so much we don't know or understand, nothing can be ruled out.

[@JDLuke]

I have the actual truth, and I'll be glad to share it with you (for a fee), but that's the only way for you to achieve happiness.

[@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9oo]

@Stranger The words of an idiot.

[@dogsbollox4335]

My mind is like mush trying to figure out reality ,I just can't cope no more.

[@cesarc9594]

@To R There is more wisdom and truth in what you have said than perhaps you realize.

[@dogsbollox4335]

Maybe I agree.thank you.

[@dogsbollox4335]

Dirtlaw 502 it's just this planet has dark times ahead and do you really think there is any meaning to all of this and thanks mate.

[@affel6559]

@@dogsbollox4335 Check out the Thomistic Institute, Bishop Barron, Classical Theist on youtube if you are interested in the Catholic perspective. God bless!

[@Two_But_Not_Two]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ3EoIVropl_bpI

[@raonanduri5490]

I search in vain for concepts of God from non-Western civilizations and cultures in these episodes. They may have something valuable to say. Being stuck with the idea of God as a person, a Creator, having attributes of love, hate etc., God having a body, location, being the universe, within the universe, outside the universe, directing events, all these concepts, while interesting, are not really satisfactory. Who is asking all these questions and formulating concepts? Consciousness is the source of all ideas and concepts. Again, all discussion about nature and location of consciousness is also a product of consciousness. I wonder if Albert Schweitzer was weighed down by all the concepts of God before he decided once and for all that the supreme purpose and value of his life was to serve his fellow humans and make the world as he found it a little better. Perhaps his worldview transcended even Christian faith. God is beyond comprehension and description. Any human description, concept, or idea of God falls short of . Let us know more about Body, brain, mind, and consciousness. Then we might be closer to Truth.

[@wfahrenkrug5887]

I think Albert Schweitzer had valid point. Doing what enhances life, caring for all life, treating it as of great value, being a life-giver seems like a good way to live one's life. There are many ways in which one can do this. We all know when we do good, and we all know when we don't. You don't need "high degrees" of learning to know this. You "experience" it. Whatever "power" or "creator spirit" is behind this, I think and feel that it is manifesting its "Being-ness" through all that is, and we all seem to have an intuition of compassion, wonder, and awe toward life. We all want to know that we matter, that we are of value for no other reason than that "we are", so lets treat each other as if this is so.

[@jackieswan422]

God is simply the universe

[@tac6044]

We are all the same being in the most literal sense. We are God.

[@Joker25076]

I like the series. But why are there so many issues with sound in it... sometimes it's not in sync (like in this one), sometimes the volume is too low... regarding the production looking pretty high standard I don't get why the uploads here are so flawed.

[@kierharris976]

I'm just grateful for the content

[@borderlands6606]

Isn't panentheism synonymous with most credible arguments for God? That is to say the universe is part of God, but does not exhaust what God is? The alternatives, that God is a superhero looking on disapprovingly from outside his creation, seems too like the worst of human nature, not divine. That God made the universe but washed his hands of it and retired to heaven, seems equally facile. If we are conscious, and not suffering an organised delusion of consciousness, a pan-conscious God would seem inevitable.

[@youthresist8956]

You didn’t really give an argument for why God would have to be part of the universe, that just seems arbitrary.

[@throwabrick]

I agree, I find Spinozan Panentheism the most satisfactory model of divinity. Throw in Teilhard and William Gibson... ;)

[@borderlands6606]

@@youthresist8956 The argument is whether consciousness is a delusion or not. If it is a delusion, all conclusions that follow from it must be suspect. You can't conjure a real phenomenon from an epiphenomenon, it's biology "all the way down". If it isn't a delusion, what manner of thing is it? If I am truly conscious, and solipsism doesn't address the apparent consciousness of others, consciousness may be fundamental. Fundamental consciousness sounds sufficiently like descriptions of God. If consciousness is localised sparks and chemistry doing its thing, the true nature of reality must be beyond its purview.

[@durosempre4470]

If 1) God exists and 2) He's omnipotent, then He must encompass infinite paradoxes. For example, He's everything and nothing simultaneously. He encompasses and animates everything that exists (universe, multiverse, whatever) and yet has nothing to do with any of it. This could also help explain how each one of us is a spark of the Divine -- seemingly autonomous sentient creatures that in some way are objects generated and sustained by His imagination. On that level, existence might be entirely solipsistic. Panentheism strikes a chord with me. I imagine it's analogous to a person during sleep. His body still exists, and he'll reclaim control of it in the morning, but for the time being his consciousness exists in a non-physical realm that transcends his body.

[@borderlands6606]

@@durosempre4470 I disagree that existence is solipsistic, other people behave and respond sufficiently like me to infer they have an independent existence. The question is how exhaustive that reality is?

[@ravenous071]

man, what a crossover it would have been if Dr. Robert Lawrence Kuhn had a conversation with Art Bell..

[@brandonjohnson801]

In my opinion, and to avoid as much nuance as possible, because I believe this is just the surface of my undertanding and much nuances exist and also admitting I could be 100% wrong. God is everything and everything is God. God is all of the above. God is light. God is a partical and a wave at the same time, but also in all times. God is the sunshine we percievie and make sense of the world around us, our collective reality if you will, but also running the photons of light zipping through our brain and body, creating our individual thoughts and reality.

[@hazardousmaterials1284]

I’ve really enjoyed these videos, and the deeper considerations of life they’ve invoked. My own theology and my understanding of this world’s purposes (and our own) have been in a state of flux - a letting go of what I thought I accepted as true. It’s good to hear others speak of coming to terms with these mysteries too.

[@Scribe13013]

Like a yin yang that encompasses everything...the dots in it are eyes...one of the eyes is pretty and pristine like a little baby eye...the other eye is...horrendous..a dirty window that has gazed upon epochs of pain...

[@casnimot]

You've probably seen this before, but here goes anyhow: My 'h' (might just be hunch) is that experience is conserved, collects and becomes agent in itself (little 'g' ontogeny). I suspect that space-time is flat and Einstein might've been closer to right than anyone thought. I suspect that all the rules, continuous or discrete, lead to complexity and experiencing animals like us. The purpose of which is to further collect and grow in strength and awareness. This permits the ghastliest of evil along the way, along with everything else. But it favors the good and us wanting/trying to be better, especially if the collective agency of those choices like itself better because of those choices. I kick around the idea that space-time is the carrier for conserved experience, but that's because I don't want to run with mass/gravity just yet and anything beyond is that much further beyond me. Either way, I think it pays to remember that the paper isn't the story, the alphabet isn't the language.

[@PaulHoward108]

I wonder if Mr. Kuhn will ever talk to someone who follows Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It's the chief book of the Vedas, older than the Bible, and describes the absolute truth in detail as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but I guess he would think of it as "alternative."

[@ferdinandkraft857]

Your truth is no more "absolute" than anybody else's.

[@PaulHoward108]

@@ferdinandkraft857 Why do you characterize Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as mine? I didn't write it, but I recommend starting from the beginning: Www.vedabase.io/en/library/sb

[@Solidude4]

Yes he would think of it as alternative. I think the idea of conceiving such conceptions of God as 'alternative' is so Western-centric, as if Abrahamic conceptions of God are the standard or default. The more I follow Kuhn's show the more I realise how Eurocentric the philosophy and theology he pursues or explores is. If he's going to search for truth he needs to widen his perspective.

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works.

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

These contents are so exhilarating.

[@4L3PH4]

God suddenly appeared before me while I watched this video. He looked like a container of cleaning fluid. Oh wait, that was an advert...

[@dennyworthington6641]

Accept "brute fact naturalism" Robert. You'll not only get closer to truth, you'll hit it spot on.

[@rl7012]

That is the furthest from truth possible.

[@firstnamesurname6550]

Before trying to talk/think deductively about That ... Why not try with inductive extreme thoughts like what are the boundaries of The Human's Imagination? or Could the human imagination conceives how Eternal Entities would be? or What could happen with contingency and time in an Eternal Domain? or If you - suddenly - becomes an immortal eternal Being ...What would you do? ... What is easier? To Teach a Chimp to learn how to be like a Human ... or To teach a Human to learn how to be like a Chimp ...

[@xspotbox4400]

Altered states, return to primordial consciousness and reverse course of natural mutations.

[@robertflynn6686]

I think you found your elements on that trip, Robert Kuhn. Why can't we just trust the quark reality and include supersymmetric squarks for our gods.

[@covenantsoul8027]

You have to go with a Creator-God, because otherwise you still have the issue of where the universe came from, because it cannot be eternal. A Creator can be eternal, because he transcends space and time.

[@kennethcook8857]

Pantheism has no real problem with the "age of God" if one focuses on the concept of "God" being the eternal, indestructible "energy" that is currently in the FORM of this universe as we know it.

[@glenemma1]

God is personal. You are God. You can't get more personal than that. You know yourself as 'me'. This is God. Everything is ME Even in the absence of things, there is still Me.

[@wendellwiggins3776]

It's very simple. Nature is ALL that there is, is all you'll ever be able to experience, contemplate or know. GOD is what we are experiencing. No "Belief" required! I noticed while very young that Nature was where I felt the most Loved and where I felt closest to the Forces of Life. With this perception, we can See all as manifestations of divinity where ALL is connected and interwoven through Time and Space. Knowing that ALL is ONE gives a deeper appreciation for Nature & Life. For the Natural Uni-verse is THE ONE that we all have in common. All those fears of being distant, detached and separated from The Divine are removed when realizing we are aspects of total divinity. If this was our overstanding many of the problems, anxiety, anger and conflicts would be diminished. The false delusiond of various Santa Claus gods only create doubts and conflicts as history has proven. In agreeing on what ties us together in this WEB of LIFE cycle could help keep this beautiful Plamet Home sustainable for all Earthlings

[@dennyworthington6641]

I agree with you my friend. Sounds like you've been reading my favorite philosopher, Spinoza.

[@SS-md8uj]

"But God exists beyond all of this-the real God, the pure God that has been shining like the sun upon you. Regardless of the clouds in the sky, regardless of the pollution in the atmosphere and the turbulence on the ground, God is like the sun shining upon you. But God is beyond the sun, beyond any definition that you can make. Beyond your histories, beyond the great teachers and the great Messengers from God, beyond the great spiritual books and testimonies, there is God the Creator and the Author of your life and existence. What God has created in you lives within you now. It lives beyond your intellect, beyond your thoughts and understanding, beyond your concepts, beyond your ideas and beliefs in a deeper place within you-a deeper mind, a mind that in the New Message is called Knowledge. It is the mind that knows. It is the mind that waits. It is the mind that sees clearly without distortion, without fear, without preference, without confusion, without speculation-a deeper mind within you. This is what God has created in you that is permanent, that will last forever. Beyond your temporary identity in this world, beyond all the events of this world and all other worlds, beyond the river of your experience in this life, there is Knowledge within you, and it is God that is the Author of this Knowledge." quote from the www newmessage org > The One God > Comprehending God

[@CandidDate]

I am God, you are God, did I miss anyone? Oh, the Devil, he's food for thought.

[@mikeq5807]

I am. That includes the devil. There is nothing that I am not.

[@nathanbell6962]

@Zameen Z globalnews.ca/news/6974584/death-angel-drummer-will-carroll-met-satan-coronavirus-coma/

[@spiralsun1]

Actually pretty close. However I actually know what GOD is, what we call the devil is and etc. My friend Jordan Peterson gets you most of the way there against the backdrop of modern science and information. However, he stops short of a foundational theory. That’s where I come in. I pretty much know what all humans, really all life, has been looking for. We all keep stopping short. Fear, ego, whatever it is. That’s what we call it anyway. But the universe itself is a story in Textbook format. Our lives are inside this information structure and mirror of metaphor and allegory for GOD. You must have a sacrificial mindset and an extremely no existent ego state which involves an extremely high tolerance for pain. Like you don’t even notice what would be catastrophic to others. To me, god has an immense tolerance for pain in order to give birth to the universe inside it. In order to love, you must be able to withstand the pain that comes from it, the vulnerability, the inevitable death of what you love. To carve yourself up into a billion years and a billion personalities. The love of god is us. It’s not just in us. That’s a huge difference. To say that I am the love of god from the beginning of time, and to be able to bear any task or pain set before you. You really cannot talk about god without a bed of nails you are willing to lay down onto. Without the lances piercing the martyrs to show god that the love is mutual. This magnitude of love heals the world. Even greater is to thrive with this knowledge and love. To throw down the things that distract you and create something perfect in the eyes of the universe. To stand like a blue flame in darkness beset all around by the winds of chaos and to not go out. To be the pilot light of creation upon which it turns. This is love of god. This is the god of love on Earth.

[@throwabrick]

Pity you left out Spinozan Panentheism.

[@simpleguy38]

He was a pantheist

[@stellabella8224]

God is Love and anyone who has real love in their heart has a part of God which is most powerful. The more people love, the more God is manifested in the world. If everyone becomes love then God is every where and we become ONE with the "All" the true reality.

[@bobbabai]

In all of these interviews, the burning question that never seems to get asked (or answered) is, "what does the use of the term God add to any of them?"

[@vireshhughes8918]

Pantheism does not have a problem regarding God’s age. The universe was not created out of nothing, but simply the inflation of the eternal singularity.

[@tedgrant2]

Have you noticed that God is very fond of lightning

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works, the concept of God is that God is not a supernatural being like we see in superhero movies

[@Editthem]

What if we are the primordial god.. and that’s what makes god so big that he make himself become the lowest of them all. Also it’s what makes god so complex and unique, mysterious.

[@azurelad236]

GOD...Good Open-minded Dialogue...God is the question of God not the temporary destiny of God found in an answer to the question.

[@Joeybeanstar]

I think if you can imagine God fully then he isn’t God. God is unimaginable and mysterious

[@edgarearly4203]

God is often believed to be the cause of all things and so is seen as the creator, sustainer, and ruler of the universe. Maybe god decided this world/universe is what is desired.

[@lucianmaximus4741]

Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽

[@irfanmehmud63]

There is a concept of God in some eastern philosophies that God is a Cosmic source or potential that actualized itself in the form of universe and everything within it... and now God is evolving through the universe to perfect itself. I don't know what label is there for such an immanent and evolving God!

[@richardmooney383]

There are as many concepts of God as there are believers in God. Actually, come to think of it, there are more, because even non-believers have concepts of God and each of them is unique as well.

[@CandidDate]

Believe or not believe, there is no in between.

[@MrDogonjon]

The most popular competing concept to god is more gods. Darwins natural selection does not compete with god but is the right answer.

[@myscifichannel3606]

It's gods all the way down.

[@jimmcgreehan3624]

Remember Lawrence don't dichotomize reality (science and religion); the physical needs the metaphysical and vice versa. For example to produce human sentience it requires physical neurons resulting in the emotive feelings of one's Will (self-awareness, etc.) which cannot be explained exclusively by material properties themselves. Or, think of the properties of Time; what is time? Or mathematics, so on and so forth. 3017 Metaphysician

[@haiedd4222]

Entanglement believed there is a main source or nothing is created or destroyed. They are still living and much more advanced.

[@monoman4083]

An infinite regress of gods, but who started it all.

[@aug2890]

No solid experimental facts, it is only descriptive, it is guess.

[@mintakan003]

Uh, OK. Try this one out for size, as yet another alternative view of God. "God" is what gives human life value. It gives the direction of life that leads to the most fulfillment. In the New Testament, it is said that "God is Love". That's abstract. But Christianity is also concrete. When you give a thirsty neighbor a glass of water, Jesus says, it is as if one has done it to him. People who have had NDE's also said that God doesn't care what you believe. All that matters is whether one has been loving, to oneself, to one's neighbors. Love and learn. That's most of what human life is about. - The actual beliefs have varied throughout history, throughout time. They range from highly anthropomorphized (e.g. Old Testament) to more abstract and philosophical (e.g. Vedanta), based on what people are able to understand. But the moral core is always there. This also raises the question of transcendental values, such as the good, true, and beautiful (Platonism?). Also questions about teleology, or an attractor function in human evolution? - As for a God that explains the universe, this is probably a lost cause. First, science is better at this than theology (or philosophy) will ever be. Mainly because we can come up with tons of ideas about things, and never resolve them. But science is the discipline that does the actual looking, measurement, experimentation, interaction in the world, to see what the real deal is. While not perfect, it is the closest we have to a true epistemological method. - Second, a God as explainer of physical systems (e.g. "first mover"), doesn't really move people. So what? This is not a the level that ultimately matters to most people. The "God" that really fulfills, is at the level of the psyche. (Maybe I should invoke Jung? I also realize it renders some issues to orthogonality, as well as a kind of agnosticism to the larger questions pertaining to the origins of the universe.)

[@dizzle7558]

Mind officially blown😳💨..

[@4L3PH4]

Wooly logic based on foundations of sand.

[@mahmoudsupes2461]

God is not like us he's different and there's nothing like him. he created this life as a test for us. he allows suffering because it help us see things differently some people get better some people get worse and it's just a tool. but all of this won't be for nothing because he knows how to cure it as if it never was. maybe this temporary suffering saved you from a much painful path.

[@stephenmason5682]

They can't ALL be right, BUT they ALL can be wrong? Best keave them to their own disagreement!

[@runelund5600]

Jesus WAS God in a body.

[@cvsree]

God is everything perceived and beyond There is nothing that is not God If we think we have a distinct identity, it's our mistake. This mistake is the seed for evil.

[@anteodedi8937]

As an atheist I tend to agree with Leftow in the end. These guys keep talking about god but only the word "god" is left there. What they describe is not really god.

[@Ploskkky]

Ah, it is time again to fantasize about invisible friends. Robert, you should interview a dock worker, or a gardener, or a plumber about the topic. Their fantasies are just as valid.

[@jeffamos9854]

Mr Kuhn should interview me. I have awesome fantasies. Might be X rated.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@jeffamos9854 Tell us more about your cat, it's very interesting how it act and think, not common for cats.

[@jeffamos9854]

Xspot box “ not common” lol. That’s because I am pulling stuff out of my butt and making it up. I do have a black cat. Name is freeway. Found him on the freeway when he was a kitten. Fun to make quip remarks about my cat. No deep thinking. Can’t think of one today.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@jeffamos9854 Hey, that's a great revelation, i heard something squicking and squiling behind me when riding a bicycle at night yesterday. It was a very small kitten, on his first voyage into a big and lonely world. Was rubbing against tire of my bike and wanted me to notice him, so i took a piece of cheese i bought in a shop and give it to him, but he didn't care about that food. Maybe i got it wrong, cheese is a milk kinda, but it's in solid shape, not sure if cat so small can chew. Then i took both kitten and cheese in my hand and drop them in grass over to a nearest house. I figured perhaps a mouse will come and eat that piece of cheese, than kitten can catch a mouse and eat it.

[@LeventeCzelnai]

u are that type of atheist whose counterpart is a creationist on the other side.

[@durosempre4470]

I love Closer To Truth, but is this really a "new" episode? Wasn't this uploaded about a month ago?

[@MartinDrummond-x6q]

Another interesting offering ruined by background music. Why do producers do this??

[@xspotbox4400]

More we think about alternatives, more obvious it became nothing can replace one and only true God.

[@avisjohnson35]

God became man, so man could become God. And all the supper is coming from man. It has nothing to do with God. He's allowing you to experience yourself in a physical way in a dual. Distinct environment with good and bad. Happy sad up-and-down a lesson to be learned. But man has made man suffer

[@polsick]

God is a civilization, that reached at least level 4 on the Kardashev scale.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

God conscious reality brings together science of universe / cosmos and human experience.

[@manuelweihrauch9790]

I would have loved seeing a Tibetan Lama being interviewed. There is no God in Buddhism or Bön, but the concept of Dharmakaya or Bodhicitta, as in the All-Creating-King-Sutra, is mind expanding.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

God is conscious reality experienced through awareness, language and free will.

[@shahayleiwelch9997]

THE TRUTH IS WE ALL 👨‍👨‍👦 MUST 💔 BREAK IN ❤ AND 🙇 BOW OUT.AND THE GRACE OF GOD IS SUFICIENT. WETHER ITS AT HOME 🏡 AT WORK AT CHURCH ⛪ OR IN THE COMMUNITY. AND 👨‍👨‍👦 WHO 👀 SEES IT ❤EARLY ☀ SEES 👁‍🗨 REALITY 💔 .

[@robertjkuklajr3175]

Why would we think because the universe started. that God started then?

[@richardmooney383]

Once you take away God's capital "G" you get nothing.

[@demiurge1608]

no matter how hard I try to follow these well made episodes, I fail miserably to learn something striking..,no real content , just seeing all the guests struggling with the fact that most important questions are unanswerable..

[@aug2890]

No solid experimental facts, it is only descriptive, it is guess.

[@demiurge1608]

Aug28 I do not expect experimental facts, this is not science, philosophy so speculation is OK but not deep enough, not good enough.

[@tanshihus1]

@@demiurge1608 If you need experimental data then try looking for 'the spirit molecule' by Strassman. He started looking for a way to speak with the Deity and arrived at his study of DMT in the human body.

[@AlexLifeson1985]

@@tanshihus1 It's a hallucigen, nothing more. Doing weed doesn't mean there is an afterlife or a God

[@tanshihus1]

@@AlexLifeson1985 Cannabis is not DMT. It is classified as a psychedelic. Comes with a schedule one rating making it an illegal substance to make or to own or to sell. Which is a laugh and a half when you come to realize that it is being generated by your body nearly everyday that you're alive. DMT appears to combat the body's natural action to re-assimilate the tissues of non-active visual nerves like the ones connected to the back of your retina while you sleep. The key difference between the dream state and a waking hallucination where you meet the Deity appears to be in the amount of chemistry. Dr.Strassman conducted two levels of DMT dosage for the IV tests. At the low levels they approximated the way you feel after a good nights sleep. The high dose tests began to approximate the strange experiences of people like NDE witnesses. In at least one test, the subject reported that he had talked with intelligent insects. In another the subject reported meeting white-faced clowns. However Dr.Strassman wasn't looking for data on the drugs performance. He was honestly searching for a reliable way to speak with the Deity as described in the Hebrew Bible without realizing that the prophets in ancient times could not have been just using pure DMT for the purpose.

[@xspotbox4400]

There are all kinds of things and stuff in this universe, but God choose to see only good in his creation.

[@simpleguy38]

There is no such things as good and bad from God's perspective, it's just a human interpretation of events happen in a place or a time, truth is the fundamental principle of God and that is the way how nature works.

[@Magik1369]

Panentheism is closest to the Truth. The Divine is both immanent in creation and transcendent. The imminent Divine is contained within but evolving out of matter. There are 2 currents...involution (the Divine involving itself in matter) and evolution (the Divine evolving out of matter). There is a spark of the Divine inside every living Being. In humans, this Divine Spark is located deep inside the heart. It is possible to experience the Divine Source directly in meditation and in higher states of consciousness. I would encourage you to read Jung, Wilber, Washburn, and the mystics. People have been experiencing direct encounters with the Divine from the beginning. Myself included. That our Universe is 15 billion years old does not mean that the Divine is 15 billion year old. That is ridiculous. There are as many Universes as there are grains of sand.

[@murderhill1947]

Good grief! what a lot of Hooey. But studying theology does manage to keep a lot of people off the street.

[@erikhviid3189]

H.C. Andersen: the Emperor’s new clothes.

[@jeremymr]

9:08 - MMM HMM!

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

its hilarious how these people can speak about God in such a atheistic way that they have no direct spiritual experience but rather they are scholars who have read other people's spiritual experiences

[@gregorycrocker5977]

PLEASE GO AND WATCH " THE BEST MOVIE EXPLAINING THE FLOOD" AND KEN HAM "SCIENCE CONFIRMS THE BIBLE" BY: ANSWERS IN GENESIS. I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU IN SOME POSITIVE WAY.

[@seel9050]

If the original source of the universe is infinite, or is the infinite “space-time singularity” where the big bang came from, and if there are potentially infinite universes as also speculated in science, then maybe pantheism doesn't need to consider the concept of God as having an age. Maybe the answer is simply that you can't have any plus without a relative minus, so you can't create anything less than infinite without it being more than nothing. And if the original source really is infinite, can we dismiss any concept of God, or gods, lightly.

[@xspotbox4400]

Everything - everything = God, but... Everything - everything also = pure evil

[@Jesusismykin]

If you want to know God, you have to study his word and that is the Bible.

[@1stPrinciples455]

He speaks of Reality when he cannot prove this reality

[@catherinemoore9534]

Made me laugh... It's like being invited to a smogabord of Gods where none of the guests are sure whether any of the Gods are edible... The idea of God and values being the fuel of reality isn't new.

[@richardmooney383]

In one way or another these people seem to be looking for gaps in naturalistic understanding for their God to fit into. Why can't they just accept that "nobody knows"?

[@matterasmachine]

god was first discrete robot that was doing it's copies. World is something line algorithmic portal - self building robot

[@arthurwieczorek4894]

Shermer's Last Law.

[@LucianTSkeptic]

That haircut is proof there is no POG.

[@NomadOutOfAfrica]

Multiplicity is not progress

[@bjlyon615]

But where did that first simple god come from?

[@simpleguy38]

Infinite regress

[@ferdinandkraft857]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the best alternative concept of God.

[@ledgermanager]

universe good for life? nah..pretty hostile imho

[@xspotbox4400]

Emotional God, perhaps this is what drove Devil insane and he rebelled against that maniac.

[@xspotbox4400]

@DOC TOR You might be on to something there, humans simply forgot we're animals basically. And that's very strange when you think about it, we denied our nature and filled our heads with ideas and illusions. We understand our civilizations and cultures are not natural, but they're not a blunder either, universe is like that deep down or no animal could ever achieve global consciousness. Problem is, when does it became to much, there are no solid grounds up there or down here, how far can we temper with natural environment and basic instincts before our mental sphere will rich thresholds of abomination. But if nature will not stop us, Devil is nothing compared to what humans will do with this universe.

[@kpllc4209]

@@xspotbox4400 We forgot we are animals because we have believed strange ideas about immortal souls, free will and being made in God's image. Man is apart of nature and anything man does logically is natural, man is not a kingdom within a kingdom.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@kpllc4209 Interesting, but what is the core of our failure exactly, what is that single one thing we got it so wrong? I think we are different than animals because we believe in things that does not exist and share collective hallucinations emerging from language and other symbols. What is a word than, it's something we learned at very young age and exist in structure of our brains. But words doesn't relate to anything real, have nothing to do with universe as is, they are just special kind of noise, existing only in our illusive conscious sphere. Can't pull word out of a head, it's not in cells, words emerge from structural activity. You said kingdom within a kingdom, it's like nature is taking some shape and this physics is reflecting back to nature somehow. If thing exist, so does the universe, because thing believe universe must be real or thing couldn't exist. Can we apply same chain of reasoning to our mental abilities? This is where things get complicated, it's easy to understand why body exist, it's an object and universe is full of objects, so it can exist, just like everything else material can. But conscious sphere is not like that, it doesn't have universal origins, we are not intelligent because electricity around us is intelligent. And it's not a symbol either, word is just a sound, a shape, a physical phenomena doesn't contain any meaningful substance. Our abilities emerge from biology, nature is shaping molecules, so it can grow and replicate, must find optimal states of energy to maintain it's structure. This means mind is not a miracle, but our culture is, the way we share emotions and knowledge makes us special state of animal kind of matter. Human consciousness is a kingdom in a way, so question is, what kind of physics is it and who is the king?

[@kpllc4209]

@@xspotbox4400 Things went "wrong " in my opinion partially due to our intelligence which is an amazing ability to keep us alive and life wants to live. We are able to differentiate so well between objects and ideas that we forget that we are nothing more than extensions of the natural world. The self is another important tool for an organisms survival but along with our intelligence we are like children with loaded guns. Consciousness as far as we know is the result of physical forces, the same forces that have created you and the world around you, it is a seamless machine.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@kpllc4209 A will to live, not the power of the will, this is an interesting proposition because people are often confused about what drives them to overcome daily obstacles. In matter of fact, entire human civilization is build around idea nobody wants to die, not in a stupid way at least. It still happens ever so often, this is why Darwin awards page exist and what makes most lives seems so average. Extremes are balanced out and we're left with general boredom. Why people care about how they'll die, it's not like anything that happens after will be of their concern. It's because we're aware of holistic flow, if people are presented with a choice, they'll rather choose better, less stressful and more productive way to go, preserving their precious possessions for continuation of a magical chain of physical events. It's not all about entropy and resistance after all.

[@tashriquekarriem8865]

Whatever I think god is, god is not that

[@dionmcgee5610]

You've said the only thing I'm certain is true. I'd be an atheist if I had more faith.

[@margrietoregan828]

Judging by his creation, the Creator is the most malicious of brutes - he is nothing short of 100% malicious, and worse, only 80% effective. What could be more pernicious than not only giving us (& all creation) life & physical existence, but then to only, by way of certain death, decay, festering rot & dissolution, take it all away again, & doing so long, long before we’ve realised but a small fraction of its - of life & existence’s - stupendous & unimaginably wondrous potential, & even though we have done no more than glimpsed, no more than tongue-tip-tasted, its (existence’s) potential for love & attachment, wonder, fulfilment & joy. Pernicious ? Malicious ? In a “good cop/bad cop”, “bait-&-switch” way. Every time we discover/invent/create some new & better way of being - a new way of being joyous, happy, satisfied, fulfilled, a new way of reducing labour, of reducing our own blood, sweat & tears - whatever that invention is/was regardless of its benefits it inevitably gets co-opted by evil & is used as way to crush, defeat, torture & kill us. We invented a pointy digging stick to pry fat, juicy, nutritious tubers from the earth, then some one starts killing other living things with this pointy thing, using it, instead, as a weapon of death. Now we use it on each other .... An examination of every single new invention - including all of life’s upgrade survival & reproductive adaptations - shows this eventual co-option by evil // this arms race with one’s enemies - to be the case. Narcissists utilise our bonding & attaching - love - to hold us in their wretched, punitive thrall .. What fate could be worse ..... Whatever it is, the creator is not a thing of lovingness.

[@frank1803]

until you look at a perfect sun set, a rose, a child's smile, beautiful clouds , and a happy thought that just may surface now and again.

[@jeffamos9854]

Margriet , God wants us to struggle and feel pain. Its suppose to make us creative. Did you not get the memo.

[@jeffreyphillips4182]

Wow, I'm aghast with this post because it mimics my own weird thinking. Way to go Margriet

[@margrietoregan828]

Jeffrey Phillips Thnx, Jeffry! I’ve found no ‘rational’ explanation for our existence other than a malevolent creator hoping to maximise our torturous journey to death for his own amusement !!!!!! My favourite opinion on “god” // the creator: Jim Holt’s TedTalk : kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIC1hoinf8lrZ68

[@borderlands6606]

@@margrietoregan828 By contrast atheist materialism says all your thoughts are an illusion that exist in your head. Your loves, efforts and toil are vanity awaiting permanent annihilation. Awe is as uplifting as it gets, because the sky is big. But you can hang with your tribe and scorn believers for entertainment, so not all is lost.

[@HouseofRecordsTacoma]

A species far in technological advance from us, what's their concept? Would they de-invent God?

[@hetornhetorn]

They would pretty much make cohesive all of the seemingly "different" interpretations of God here on Earth, and it necessarily takes base on consciousness and mind.

[@simpleguy38]

Wait till we find intelligent Aliens

[@danielteran8067]

These are more like: Kinds of gods, or ways of thinking about god. I expected this video to present alternative concepts of viewing the world without necessary invoking a god, any god at all. Pantheism is close to that, by identifying nature as god, but I think nature it self is the biggest thing in the universe or universes. What is wrong with thinking that nature's intelligence, with all its failures and successes is the ultimate cause for the universe and life, since its not perfect, and self learning as it flows here and there, its not omni potent, not perfect, not divine, it has no morals. Its a force of life, the will or desire to spawn life here and there, self discover and taste its own creation, view and live the universe trough endless creation and destruction. Nature Intelligence is the closest thing we have to a god. Gods are perfection, and perfection concept only lives and comes from the mind of Humans. Nature creates and destroy, its radical and crazy, and yet beautiful and awesome. Why all gods have to have some kind of moral rules book, or some moral authority, I see no evidence of morals in nature, nor in the rest of the universe, the duality god/moral authority always alert me thinking that good again is a human need concept that we humans desire, but really we don't see any evidence of that in nature. So why not accept nature and its intelligence as the closest thing we have to a "god" concept. We can't deny that nature is intelligent, but we can't say its equal to a god. There we are again, forcing the god concept, not letting go the talisman or amulet. Just like child that won't let go a dear toy that brings luck.

[@xspotbox4400]

A living spirit without a body, perhaps God wants to go back into his lamp.

[@warrenpanabang3341]

Like the galaxy and the universe, this world we're in is also a god as it is a living one. the world as a god is in need of help because he is ill about the garbage scattered all over the earth. The existence of god is engraved in the spirit of Man so we donot have to believe but live with it. Suffer we will without god and rewarded we are with god. Theism is natured to Man but we can choose not to show our belief.

[@newmankidman5763]

Testing

[@clam4597]

Maybe it's easier to find the devil, then he might tell us about God.

[@cartoonseries3484]

God concept in Islam is clear. God is one. God need no help. God has no children or nor son of someone. You cannot imagine God.

[@immortalstarventure]

who invented the word 'GOD'

[@therealParisHilton]

The last view by the philosopher who is talking about little gods and bigger gods leading to primordial GOD this concept correlates perfectly with theoretical physicist Micho Kako about the concept of advanced civilizations in the universe as well as the concept of the movie Prometheus!

[@willyh.r.1216]

"God or the nature" or the God of Spinoza is the best concept of God, for me.

[@jstiles82]

I tend to agree, but then why call it god? It's more coherent to just call it nature or natural

[@skwozies3083]

I agree, Spinoza's conception is really the only one which works.

[@skwozies3083]

@@jstiles82 It nonetheless would correctly be given the name of God as it fits the description perfectly. It would be the very essence or substance of reality itself, the cause of its own being (after all, existence itself would be a fundamental property of reality) and the creator of all things. It would of necessity hold all power that is not contradictory to its essence and hence all potentiality (omnipotence) and all available knowledge (Information) and hence would be omniscient. In my view of reality (the Cosmos) as well as Spinoza's as far as I can tell it would be eternal and infinite (this would take more explanation to examine properly). It is nature or reality. It is pure existence or the substance of infinite attributes (or at least all attributes that can be and are real, which within an infinity is infinite attributes). In creating the universe (whether consciously or not) it would only change the form of its substance and not create a new substance and hence our universe is only a mode of itself or else there would be 2 substances with the same attributes which is absurd. Hence this God would be one (as the Jewish religion teaches). However, it would not have a choice in how it created the universe as that would be determined by its very essence. It couldn't not be what it is. Or as Einstein put it "Did God have a choice in creating the universe?" Hence a will and action of the God is absurdity. For example, from the perspective of the God of classical theology Omniscience presupposes that all future happenings are already unalterably determined. If there is omniscience, omnipotence is inconceivable. Impotence to change anything in the predetermined course of events would restrict the power of any acting agent. If God knows the future as it really is (not just how it might be, or how he wants it, but how it will turn out) then God is impotent to affect any change to the future. These two attributes are directly contradictory the one to the other and the law of non-contradiction demands that two contradictory things cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time. Or put plainly, If God knows how the future will occur then he cannot change how the future will occur. However, if this God (Cosmos) was not an acting agent exacting its will then the paradox goes away, also it could create some beings with limited knowledge or limited power then they would not create the paradox and hence we as humans can act to change our future. In this sense the Modes of God could act without a contradiction occurring. Such a God could also not do miracles as they would violate his/her/it's own being in the same way (hence, no violation of the Laws of nature could occur as the God would itself be the Laws of nature). Whether it can even hear your prayers or think is highly unlikely. For example, there appears to be no medium over which thought can propagate outside of a physical mind. However, consciousness is not found in any parts of our brain or any cells. It is in the interactions of the various parts and cells. Just like learning at Uni does not occur in this or that class or by this or that teacher but rather learning occurs as an interaction of all phenomenon. In the same way there may be interactions which would make the God conscious. For example, interactions of fields, or in light, or electromagnetic waves, or in gravity, or possibly in the Quantum mechanics, etc... Any of these possible ways to process information may provide the interactions on a large scale that might make thought possible to this God. However, thought and consciousness would still be a mode and not the essence or substance that it is. Hence thought would not be fundamental to the God. It would exist with or without it. If thought can arise then it is not within it's will (which it could not have a will or at least not a free will) nor would it have any power over it. This is where we run into so many problems by trying to make the God think and act as you and me. To have our passions and our drives. We miss the fundamental nature of it in order to put our self in its shoes. To make God in our image, after our likeness. In other words, I think the divine reality might infinitely exceed consciousness, will, and values, those modes which we best relate to through a mind as thinking creatures. Although, the God would at least have islands of consciousness coming into and out of existence such as in you and I and other forms of conscious being that may exist within the Cosmos. In that sense, we are this God becoming conscious and in that sense we know that consciousness is possible within the infinite possibilities that can occur in the reality (God) we are in.

[@rayomaro549]

If God all ready interduce himself true his creation including all of us being port of his creation?who are those people to talk about God . When I look at myself and the universe that is so in order so program so clear and profound. And he teaching us true his creation about here and the here after ALLAH is Great. I am a good Christian now i fallow Mohammad because Jesus advice me to.