House of the Dragon S1E04 live Q&A discussion

[@2ndcitysaint52]

the acting in this episode by viserys otto and allicent was so top tier, they really brought the complexity of the characters to life.

[@maxchen9185]

Rhaenyra's expression of mixed excitement and concern on the ship upon seeing Daemon's return; Alicent's expression upon hearing Rhaenyra's statement in the Heart Tree Garden; Otto's expression when he got fired for telling the truth (he believed to be at least)... Those are fking on point man, S tier acting!

[@tpmedia3784]

The best bit of acting was the eye movements in the small council scene about the Braavos alliance. Masterful

[@lemming77gode]

The two conversations between viserys and otto were absolutely incredible.

[@thatsthat2612]

rhys ifans is killing this

[@kikima258]

Theses 3 are my favorite actors especialy viserys

[@TallJai]

As a book reader, this was the best episode to me. Completely took this mysterious part of the story and made it better. I loved how Rhaenyra is finally showing cracks in her armor. From victimized teen to an adult dealing with the results of her actions. This episode finally gave me that old thrones feeling back.

[@ilovepeoplebro]

Precisely, this is the episode that finally pulled me in

[@ajaykumarn468]

hey, saw the same comment on another video. are you a bot?

[@roronoalaw7772]

I mean as a book reader shouldn’t it annoy you since Rhaenyra and Criston Cole never banged in canon?

[@mino-taur]

@@roronoalaw7772 they did??? It’s hinted at many times in The Princess and The Queen

[@roronoalaw7772]

@@mino-taur Oh I was talking about Fire and Blood

[@OCMOOO]

The most violent thing on this series was when Viserys just slid off Otto's badge Just brutal

[@concept5631]

*So far

[@AManChoosesASlaveObeys]

It was worse than taking his head lol His whole life was being The Hand. He lost his only relevance. And Viserys got a really powerfull enemy.

[@OCMOOO]

@@AManChoosesASlaveObeys Now that Otto isn't obligated to Viserys he'll get up to some Tywin level shit with Daemon and Rhaenyra

[@cyandamadlala9610]

@@OCMOOO otto doesn't have the wit or brutaliy to be compared to tywin.

[@AB-ee5tb]

😂😂😂

[@theanarchistcook]

I haven't read Fire & Blood yet, but as soon as that kid stabbed that guy I had the thought that, years from now, songs will be sung of the two suitors who fought a duel for the hand of a princess.

[@Lurklen]

I know what you mean. One of the things Martin is good at is creating events that feel like they are a piece of a history. As salacious and pulpy as the entire saga of ASoI&F is, while reading it the first time I could not get the image of some kid in school like a thousand years on from the time of the books reading about the War of Five Kings and the Red Wedding in class. The whole thing is the medieval period, but like times ten to the power of impossible, yet it's grounded enough that it feels like you are watching a history unfold. I think that more than all the sex and violence is what actually grabs people.

[@balabanasireti]

​@@Lurklen It's neither salacious nor pulpy... but sure

[@nuur2825]

BOOK SPOILER WARNING: There is a duel as I recall in the book. I believe the Bracken, however, won but nobody died. Those two kill each other in the battle in the end with the Bracken killing the Blackwood but being killed after by his sister with a weirwood arrow.

[@fajarsetiawan8665]

Fire & Blood isn't really written in a novel format. It's supposed to be a (fictional) history book. Hence the writing will feel a tad dry which is expected from a history book.

[@kateris1976]

@@nuur2825 The Blackwood boy maybe is Benjicot aged for the show?

[@nathanmitchell295]

This episode was peak season 1-4 Game of Thrones. No flashy action or giant battles, just the characters, the setting, the politics, and the return of good writing.

[@thehoopman88]

It based of finished books they not just making it up as they go along

[@christiansmith131]

What about that epic battle between bracken and blackwood?

[@TheInfectous]

@@thehoopman88 I mean most of what we see is a creation from the showrunners. You should really read Fire and Blood because crediting this to GRRM is underselling the fuck out of the amount of work needed to turn that book into watchable TV.

[@krausem966]

To me this was the first Episode of hotd that was kinda boring and Not so good

[@nathanmitchell295]

@@thehoopman88 They are making up quite a bit, a lot of Fire & Blood is hearsay and rumours, making you form your opinions on what happened, and they are kind of revealing some of that.

[@Haveldorf]

Ser Criston looking mournfully at his white cloak as he put it down was really beautiful speechless storytelling.

[@cba2make1up]

Even before that when he wouldn't let Rhaenyra toss it on the ground like the rest of his armour, instead gently putting it down himself, it meant a lot

[@Haveldorf]

@@cba2make1up oh wow, i didn't catch that on my first viewing but i'll keep an eye out next time i watch. I love how much thought they've put into every scene in this show and i hope they keep it up throughout the seasons.

[@frankvandorp2059]

I felt so sad for Criston in this episode, but I think the scene was brilliantly done by the showrunners. You can see just from Criston's body language that he's deeply uncomfortable and doesn't want to do it, but doesn't see another option than to obey the woman who gave him everything he has and who commands him. That's what turns this scene from romantic into disturbing, although it's so subtle that a lot of fans seem to be missing it, and consider this an empowering moment for Rhaenyra.

[@Haveldorf]

@@frankvandorp2059 yeah the scene definitely has unsettling and ominous undertones and the score highlighted that perfectly. It seems like Rhaenyra is acting out against the patriarchal expectations forced upon her in my reading of her characterisation so far, I personally don't see how it can be perceived as empowering to act in self-destructive ways.

[@frankvandorp2059]

@@Haveldorf I loved how they switched back and forth between this scene, and the scene between Viserys and Alicent at the same time. A subtle and clever way of telling us that there's a parallel between those two scenes.

[@mindstate1011]

I think fans need to realize its not going to be "dragons fire" every episode. The original first few seasons of game of thrones were not full of action, but once D&D turned the show to shit, it just became a marvel movie. I embrace the normal drama without action. These actors are very good and are intriguing and carrying the show without any action.

[@joe-mama94]

I’d choose the dialogue between the characters rather than those unnecessary action sequences

[@callmecalvin7297]

...this isn't that. It's incest.

[@peterd9624]

Are fans even complaining though ? The fact that the earlier seasons of got was more popular than later seasons demonstrates how much fans value good dialogue and story telling over flashes and bangs

[@AVerySillySausage]

And the action will be so much more of a payoff after all this build up.

[@ezrafaith6592]

@-MR-PoPo- ur cringe

[@JackBrady]

After the brothel scene, Rhaenyra stopped wearing Daemon’s necklace too. Love all the meaning placed into little details :)

[@jessieBird96]

For real, I don't expect her to forgive him any time soon, he got her drunk, seduced her, and then literally abandoned her with her pants down(assault/trauma?) This is a little different than the last time he slighted her so I don't think we'll see her in that necklace for a while.

[@PDBisht]

@@jessieBird96 yea, that was really bad move by daemon how could he all hype her niece and then leave her half naked in the public.

[@HOTD108_]

@@PDBisht Yeah, it's almost like Daemon is a bad guy or something.

[@Elementroar]

@@jessieBird96 Well, he kinda makes it up to her big time but far into the future (in-universe time, not in show time cos we gonna get a shit ton of timeskips in the next few episodes).

[@Rianna468]

@@HOTD108_ Saying Daemon is a bad guy is showing how little you understand characters. Daemon is GRRMs fav character not because he's a typical black or white character like most characters from Disney+. He's a grey character, complicated, chaotic. He is human. Very flawed. It's unfortunate that many viewers are unable to comprehend it. I find it also disrespectful towards GRRM to classify such characters as just good or bad.

[@Peanutcat]

The blackwood boy in the opening scene was just unreal. His acting was incredibly good

[@spamquisition4046]

I love how he panicked and started gagging as the scene cuts. Really sold how his adrenaline is drying up and the full weight of him killing another man (as a boy too!) slammed down on to him.

[@hillbillypowpow]

@@spamquisition4046 yeah if the scene was half a second longer he'd have been spewing all over the floor of Storm's End

[@kyekimler]

You’ll see more of him, since if I’m not mistaken that’s Bloody Ben Blackwood who has a pretty huge role in the books along with his Mum :) Edit: it could also be his dad Samwell, who in the books also fights a duel against a Bracken but loses (doesn’t die however). They might be conflating the two characters for the show however, since Bloody Ben would technically be way younger at this time in the books. 2nd Edit: I wrote this before ASX started talking about it lmao

[@dedezeinaboutounkara5912]

@@kyekimler op

[@silnovak]

Personally, I find that not showing off the dragons all the time in every episode gives more of a badass look to the family, because now it just comes off so casual. Like "Oh btw, we also have a couple of dragons but whatever"

[@MDeditor777]

agreed

[@autumnhaywood1851]

They're like that in the books! They don't whip out the dragons at every moment/turn. They mostly use soldiers, diplomacy, etc. Jahearys (spelling?) said that the dragon threat was best when veiled or unseen ... Something to that effect. I liked that a lot, and am glad they kept that so in the show so far. Makes them more relatable. Which of course, is the point.

[@Lurklen]

I feel like Daemon's issue was that he actually cared about her all of a sudden, and knowing that this whole thing was a manipulation (because clearly he was attempting to publicly tarnish her image and then leave himself as the only possible suiter. Dude hates his wife, and she's access to the throne), he suddenly couldn't go through with it. The real benefit for for Rhaenrya was the discovery that, y'know, people don't just have sex because it results in kids or they have to (the fact that he sexual awakening is connected her uncle is messed up obviously), but as bad as it was for her politically, it seems that it might have been good for her well being to realize there are things beyond the birthing bed in her future. There is a hilarious irony in everyone being aghast at Raenrya faffing about with her uncle, when not a year ago Otto was presenting marriage to her 3 year old brother as a valid political move. It's fine if they put her into an incestuous union, but if she does it for herself its disgusting (I know it's a bit more about Daemon taking advantage, but even so there's an element, certainly from Alicent that what makes it disgusting is it being her idea). Also, the consent vibes with Criston and Raenrya are actually stronger the other way around. Criston is in a vulnerable position in that scene. Her future might be damaged if they were caught, but she's still a princess, he might have been executed (still could be). How would he really be able to pull off saying no if he'd wanted to. She's likely the future Queen, she's his boss, though she's younger she holds all the cards. (That said, I think he was holding himself back until his armour was off, once the weight of his duty was shucked, he could ignore it and listen to his desires.)

[@alexanderbergstrom4405]

"but if she does it for herself its disgusting" People are not disgusted and outcried cause Rhaenyra had allegded sex with her uncle. The oucry is because she had alleged sex with her uncle outside the confines of marriage. When they talk about "sullied" and "corrupt" they do not refer to incest. They refer to her maidenhoos being in question, who excatly it was she was was with is unimportant.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

Yes, b¡tch. Thank you so much for bringing up the dynamics between Rhaenyra and Crispin. When I watched that scene, I was thinking the same. He couldn't refuse her, because yeah... his life is in her hands. If he said no, she could well have him executed and throw an Amber Heard type of lie. Or she could've had him removed and thrown back into the streets. It's clear Crispin desired her, but it still does not change the fact he would've had no other choice regardless.

[@kaglet4963]

I can understand if incest marriage is suggested for purely political reasons. It's a different story when the parties involved are actually interested in the messed up union instead of being forced into it reluctantly, against their will. Rhaenyra was so into Damien and that's what made it much worse than if she had just said yes to wedding her brother years into the future for unemotional reasons. Both incest options are gross to me but one of them is even worse.

[@Gillio66]

I think Daemon's thing is he can never feel satisfied unless he knows he will inherit the throne. Rhaenyra is a constant reminder that he isn't and cannot get off because of that insecurity.

[@JennaMac24]

​@@kaglet4963 Almost all the Targaryens married their kin out of love. It wasn't always just a political thing. There were a few who were forced into it but it wasn't uncommon for it to be a love match. Jaehaerys and Alysanne, for example, were expressly forbidden from marrying and they ran off and did it anyway. Daemon and Viserys's parents were brother and sister who married for love.

[@ejr7733]

Criston's post nut clarity must've been terrifying like "By the seven this girl gonna get my head chopped off"

[@joeparrigen4982]

Lol 😆 😆

[@bloodnivel70]

He should be more worried about this child who is about to get murdered

[@mmmk6793]

kenjataimu

[@augustusmonroe1457]

Bruh, his pre-nut fog behavior offered him so many times to be like, "You know what...naw. I'm good. bye." he spent at least thirty minutes getting out his armor.

[@mindstate1011]

This episode hooked me in. Im attached to all the characters now. Even Otto, who I didnt like prior.

[@Reichsritter]

whom

[@davidm2031]

Otto did nothing wrong!

[@davedogge2280]

the writing and the acting in this episode just showed what a top tier series this is. I'm a tad worried though about some of the younger actors being replaced with older but I'm sure that the people doing the casting knew what they were doing.

[@FTO9797]

@@davidm2031 he been plotting all season so far

[@davidm2031]

@@FTO9797 He told the king about the heir for a day, and the hook up. Both true, both not caused by Otto's plotting. Idk man, seems like a good hand to me. Plus if I'm king, im going to be cool with him being self interested in his family cuz we got the same family!

[@mmmk6793]

otto's stunned 'your grace' during his audience with viserys was so perfect like i really believed him you know

[@lunar_light]

IKR! I noticed it too, absolutely amazing voice acting.

[@mmmk6793]

@@lunar_light yes all the actors are doing a great job so far 👏👏

[@IanMT56]

I’m pretty sure Daemon wanted Rhaenyra and himself to be seen to give Viserys a reason to wed them to save face. After all he took off both his hood and her hat as they entered the brothel

[@B1ackxUnicornx]

Ay I didn't even consider that.

[@kateris1976]

In the book he outright tells Viserys, "give her to me to wife, who will take her now?"

[@cba2make1up]

And the kid that saw Rhaenyra leave the brothel and later told Otto, you later see Mysaria toss him a coin, proving it's their plan all along

[@IanMT56]

@@cba2make1up The only thing is that it doesn’t seem entirely sure that they are on the same page in that right, but they totally could be

[@dougd6396]

@@rcshadowpriest2819 they are comparing it with the actual confrontation In the episode, not at all a spoiler😑

[@evannesbitt7852]

Did anyone else love how Ser Harold Westerling was so gangster in this episode? "King Viserys demands an audience with you, my Prince" as Daemon is getting manhandled by two of his comrades

[@miety111]

i love ser harold

[@BigfootUnibrowMan]

I hope his character has more to do this season.

[@biancachristie]

YES

[@vKSh87]

He reminds me of Ser Davos

[@StormFalcon61]

Daemon will cut him into pieces soon tho

[@renebara7831]

Criston Cole removing the closk really reminded me of the Soiled Knight chapter and I think I still saw a lot of hesitation on his part. Also a problem with the Rhaegar Catspaw dagger theory is that I feel like Robert would never shut up about having Rhaegar’s special Valyrian steel knife

[@HisameArtwork]

@bokimalou yep, he didn't know and wouldn't care, he put all valerian stuff in the basement rather than burn it because some ppl convinced him not to destroy it. ence why it got to his dumb son that didn't value it either.

[@tite93]

By the time of Robert I doubt anyone even knew that the dagger belonged to Aegon. They'll probably tie it in as being lost during the Danse

[@cflow2013]

I think the great part about the cloak was everything else was getting dropped to the ground with no regard but he makes sure that it doesn’t fall and somewhat folds it and puts it up. The symbolism of how much it meant to him after saying it was the greatest honor in his house’s history was cool

[@himanshupawar2398]

The thing about the Prophecy on the Dagger was that it cannot be seen until it's heated. Proves why nobody read it in GOT.

[@tite93]

@@himanshupawar2398 even if someone heated it up it wouldn't really tell much to anyone. Priests of R'Hlorr say pretty much the same thing and no one really cares

[@spearshake4771]

Otto genuinely seemed disturbed by the rumors sent to him. Its interesting that when word reached him no smile was borne on his face as one would think because his grandson would stand a chance to be named heir because of it. The show is really starting to show us how every character drove each other into their respective directions and maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Otto was not really ambitious from the start, Jaeherys chose him simply because he was one of many present in his court and he rose to that duty asked of him by his king.

[@-Scrapper-]

He was worried daemon his enemy will bone the heir

[@Notdeadyettt]

I think it was more of he knew what telling the king would lead to. Otto isn’t a stupid man. He knows the king would eventually catch on to his intentions (to the crown) if it continuously seemed like he was trying to strength aegons claim. Even vasarys mentions when he first found out how it seems like that’s the case.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

@@-Scrapper- HAHAHAHAHA.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

I took it as him being concerned over his future. He knew that would set Viserys off.

[@prizethought]

Yeah I think its a mix... Otto was just trying to be the best King's Hand, but also like you're in the position of power why not take some of it to benefit yourself?

[@animatedmonkey5882]

this episode really made me love rhanyrea, im really gonna miss her actress after the time jump.

[@coxmanbgg]

just call her renira.

[@miguelmarques4583]

Indeed i wonder whether this time jump was necessary.

[@animatedmonkey5882]

@@coxmanbgg rayneeruh

[@tonttu7979]

@@miguelmarques4583 it was, their kids will be adults so itd be a bit weird to have two actresses in their early 20s who look young for their ages to be mothers of people who look older than them

[@turtleguyfan]

@@miguelmarques4583 the kids of Rhaenyra and alicent play a big part in the actual dance so they have to be older in order to actually do things. Also the ten year skip is just more tension and nothing happening

[@notribadsvault]

25:50 the way the fight happened felt very natural compared to the violence at the tournament. Blackwood was literally gagging after he stabbed Bracken, showing that he didn’t actually want to kill him. The way everyone reacted made it clear it wasn’t normal.

[@KK-fi6ms]

When I read the novellas, it was obvious to me the Ser Criston did not reject Rhaenyra. His subsequent rather extreme actions were not of someone offended, but of someone who is deeply hurt and betrayed.

[@yellowhouse4911]

Yeah same, I really thought they would spell out the reason why he turns on her eventually in this episode. Personally I think that he hears these rumours about Daemon and Rhaenyra, she tells him that they didn't actually fuck and that Daemon left her, he realises he was only a "back up" und that he broke his oath and honor on her whim and feels so betrayed and disappointed that he turns on her. We'll see

[@KK-fi6ms]

@@yellowhouse4911 I expect whatever betrayal Ser Criston suffers will happen much later in the story. I expect it will have something to do with Rhaenyra's second marriage. But I agree that the fact he broke his oath for her will compound his pain.

[@LikesLimes]

I think you could read the scene as though he was coerced into having sex with her. She has all the power in the situation. He could be ashamed and hurt that he was unable to say no, but didn’t want to consent.

[@KK-fi6ms]

@@LikesLimesYou should listen to the actor who played Ser Cristoon in the official podcast.

[@skills4u2envy]

Most likely the color in Seasmoke's wings is from subsurface scattering in the membrane. Like when you put a flashlight behind your fingertips they appear red because of the blood in your body. With Seasmoke being so light in color it would be more noticeable than on other dragons and make the wings appear more pink.

[@queenb2450]

episode 3 where the crabfeeder was looking up, we were expecting Caraxes, but instead they surprised us with seasmoke- which made the most sense because he blends in with the clouds

[@12345Yeah]

Touch grass man

[@alexholslin4651]

@@12345Yeah because they understand anatomy and physics?

[@tomsoyer5639]

It's a cgi dragon dude

[@skills4u2envy]

@@tomsoyer5639 Your point? We apply subsurface scattering in cg materials to make skin look realistic (because skin ins translucent) and less like plastic. It's one of those things audiences don't think about because your brain believes it when it's there, but when it's not then "something is off" and people don't exactly know why. Thanos was just a "cgi dude" but he had subsurface scattering and they even made his pores stretch with his facial expressions like real skin does.

[@SamLyn]

I think part of it is that Alicent is trapped but I also think she’s genuinely concerned about her friend. She sees Raenyra is being childish and making decisions that could endanger her. I think she is worried as much as angry or jealous.

[@ekx5120]

I only now realise how forbidden love is a such a classic human trope that it made its way into own systems and laws. It's easy to be tempted by power, and it's easy to maniuplate. And sometimes love is love and the rules are against both parties being happy together. Criston's actor was great at showing the inner turmoil at the beginning, the moment he lets go, and then the shame and uncomfortable look after the fact. The undressing scene was incredibly hot tho. I understand now the appeal and the success of Mills & Boons books.

[@heck6330]

I think it was Daemon’s plan to get caught. He wants power and he can be king through Rhaenyra. He wants to marry her but he knows his brother would never allow it. So he had to soil her reputation to wed her because no one else would want her now, so Viserys would have to allow it. I think Mysaria was in on the plan as well, but not as a willful participant.

[@briansolo]

Obviously. They removed their head dressings.

[@Revolution-tl5wo]

I disagree that Daemon seduced Rhaenyra to use her as revenge against his brother or just as a power grab. I think he genuinely meant what he said to Viserys, that he would be better being her first experience than all of these old crusty lords that only wanted her for her bloodline and dragons. I think that by showing her she can enjoy and empower herself even if married, Daemon thought that he was helping by motivating her to hurry up and just go through with picking and marrying someone, thus ending the delays and Viserys' frustration. I also think that it popped into his head later, "hey, what if I just married her instead?" and brought it up to his brother because he sees it as a show of Targaryen strength against the forces that he knows have been rallying around waiting on Viserys to weaken or die off. Two adult Targaryens married to each other are infinitely more powerful than a vassal family, the HIghtowers, trying to secure the throne for a two-year-old. Despite the way Daemon misreads Viserys and acts impulsively, I think his motivations are to solve the problems as he sees them and help his family.

[@AltShiftX]

Yeah now I think Daemon and Mysaria were working together to inform Otto that Daemon hooked up with Rhaenyra. Because Mysaria took Otto's money while Daemon was in the room -- she wasn't keeping it secret from Daemon. And considering Daemon took off Rhaenyra's hat so she'd be seen.. I think informing Otto through Mysaria was his plan all along.

[@Revolution-tl5wo]

@@AltShiftX Hm. Fair point. I'm not convinced that was his intent, but it does look sus.

[@heox123]

@@AltShiftX Idk, she did receive the money in from of him, but it was obvious he wasnt in his 5 senses because he had a huge hangover and didnt take the remedy mysaria had made for him. The way I see it is Daemon had been away for so long and seeing Rhaenyra all grown up awoke something in him. He then proceeded to plan a date night and right before the climax and what he had wanted since the reunion he had a realisation that he was fucking up bigly, so he left, abruptly as his character. That said, idk what the taking of the hat was about. The relief he felt after Viserys had lifted the dagger from his neck also seemed sus to me. It could be the most logical answer, je was relieved his brother had not done something dumb and killed him in the spot, but it could also be a sigh of relief for the plot that was not discovered in that moment.

[@JayneTheory]

I think when people were talking about "consent," they were referencing Cole's - not Rhaenyra's, due to the imbalance of power and his inability to say no to her even knowing that it could cost him his life.

[@LikesLimes]

Yes, exactly. He looked super uncomfortable. She literally blocked the door and wouldn’t let him leave!

[@PurpleOkayTurtle]

@@LikesLimes he literally protested by telling her to “stop” and she still wouldn’t let him leave. Super rapey

[@claytonschopfer8467]

I think Allicent is angry with her because she knows that if it is true it is an incredibly stupid decision which could get her into a tone of trouble. Maybe even physical danger and she actually does care for her as a friend

[@cruzl1182]

I think it's highly possible that allicent will turn into a character that thinks she is doing what's best for everyone. In the sense that I can see her thinking if aegon takes the crown then rhaenyra can get the freedom she has always wanted.

[@kmk1225]

@@cruzl1182 I feel like you’ve hit the nail on the head with that observation. Maybe Alicent just wants Rhaenyra to be free, which inadvertently causes the rift…

[@yellowhouse4911]

I think she's also just a bit jealous. She said in the beginning of the episode that Rhaenyra should consider herself lucky for having so many suitors as most women, even noble born, don't even get to decide between two. Alicent was already so hesitant and disgusted when she was woken up to meet the king and she obviously hates having sex with him, for her it's just a duty and a facade she has to put up. So hearing that her former best friend can just go out, fuck for fun and not really have any consequences because she's royal problably made her incredibly angry and bitter. Cause in the end, as long as Viserys doesn't disinherit her, no one would pass up the chance to marry Rhaenyra, even Iif she was "soiled"

[@kmk1225]

@@yellowhouse4911 Yeah, that’s true too! Complex emotions…

[@Spartacus114]

I think you missed one thing though: Daemon is using the white worm's spies to his own benefit, the whole point was to orchestrate this outing so that then he can say to Viserys "Welp she's already spoiled, might as well give her (and the throne) to me" - this whole thing was orchestrated by Daemon

[@SVTasdfghjkl]

Ooo that’s a cool idea 👀

[@maxsquatch]

That's a cool idea, that Daemon paid off the spies. One other thing is that I think Daemon isn't really in it to marry Rhaenyra, but to tarnish her reputation. Daemon won the moment she entered the pleasure house with him--it doesn't matter if they banged or not, as long as the rumors of incest ruined her bid for the throne and marriage to a powerful family.

[@hoked2194]

@@maxsquatch Marrying her would've been the cleanest way to the throne for Daemon. I'm fairly sure he backed out because he felt bad about it.

[@Saktoth]

He's clearly been out of contact with mysaria for a while, since he's been in the stepstones. He seemed to resent her intervening, and her taking over a portion of the the brothels and underworld of kings landing is clearly something he was not aware of.

[@DonHbankz]

I rewatched the ep and I think Daemon genuinely cares for Rhaenyra and one of the reason he doesn’t go through with it (plus the lack of control he felt stated in the inside the episode) is because he felt guilty. Take out that brothel scene and his fight with Viserys and he genuinely looks like he is homesick and missed his family. The convo with Rhaenyra in the godswood showed he genuinely cared for her well-being and was looking out for her and her happiness it felt so genuinely and real I don’t think it was a ploy. Also during the adventure in kings landing it genuinely felt like he was preparing her for rule making her aware of the people thoughts and the threat Aegon naturally has to her. Even tho there is definitely a plot for power and to marry her thinking about it more Rhaenyra wins the most by marrying Daemon. Not only is her succession further secured by marrying a male potential heir she also get the added boost of Daemons increased popularity after the stepstones and his prestige as a warrior something Aegon doesn’t have. Yes Daemon went about it a slimy way but thinking about it, it was the only way to potentially force Viserys into agreeing. Plus I think it’s very telling that after he stopped we see him shitfaced drunk like he drown himself in alcohol due to guilt. It also further goes with that Characterisation that Daemon puts his family Viserys and Rhaenyra above all else.

[@Addyman.Strong]

spot on

[@SVTasdfghjkl]

Agreed

[@yunabroadway3033]

Honestly, after the first 2 episode I was thinking how Visery could save himself from problem if he just marry Rhaenyras and Daemon. But I do realize that Viserys wouldn’t want his brother and his daughter married. Then again, we are talking about the Tagayrien

[@monke6669]

But why did daemon remove Rhaenyra's head scarf before entering the brothel if he really cares?

[@Addyman.Strong]

@@monke6669 because it's both he loves Rhaenyra and lust for the throne.

[@Voxitude]

I really do feel that you’re overestimating how much power Christon Cole had in that situation. Rhaenyra is both the princess and the Heir to the throne. Everything Christon Cole has is due to Rhaenyra. While there is certainly chemistry between the two, it’s very clear he wasn’t a willing participant at first. He seemed quite resigned and recognized that if the princess wanted this, he really didn’t have the authority to say no, even if it’s the worst decision possible. I don’t think it’s as simple as “Rhaenyra is a teenager, Christon should know better and walk away.” When Rhaenyra holds so much power over him. He seemed resigned to his fate.

[@greywolf7577]

Yeah, if a prince coerced a servant girl ten years older than him to have sex with him, I don't think people would criticize the servant girl. Yet suddenly with the genders reversed, Cole is treated as responsible.

[@ajae...]

He could have said no. The worst possible consequence of saying no had Rhaenyra lost her mind and not understood why he would refuse and go to bed alone would have been to be reassigned to a lesser position. But as Rhaenyra is not a selfish lunatic at this point, there is no reason to believe that had he refused with a clear explanation of his duties she would have forced herself (raped) on him.. And Viserys would have investigated any story she would have made up to punish him. Being a woman Rhaenyra would be under suspicion for the rest of her life if Criston had to be reassigjed. He broke his vow by his own terrible choice. It's not as if he's some maid-servant with no personal or political power whatsoever. After the sex he seemed to put more distance between them. She could just as easily punish him for that as she could have for refusing him. She seemed to accept his choice as she would have the night before.

[@leeaivanel]

@@ajae... he did say no. he said stop, which IS the same thing. he didnt kiss her back the first once or twice she kissed him. he couldnt even look her in the eye, he was standing perfectly still. if this scene was shot with the sexes reversed it would come across as more clearly unfortunately to people. it took him a long time to start undressing himself, after, again, he had already said stop.

[@ajae...]

@@leeaivanel There was far more danger in him being discovered fucking the princess or having it known than in him saying no and not doing it. He chose to have sex. He was very proactive during the act. He put emotional distance between them the next day making clear that he had decided not to do it again, and she did not demand more or punish him. She let it go as she would have if he had walked out the night before. He chose to stay because he wanted to fuck. You are trying to apply feminist theory of sexual power imbalance to make a point but only proving that you don't understand it. He is a fully empowered knight with all the laws of the land on his side and understands that she would suffer tremendously news of their session got out. Yes princess but still a woman. Let him be a cook or mason, and you might have a point.

[@chrisconnor8086]

He knows Rhaenyra wouldnt dismiss him from the Kingsguard or concoct some plan against him for standing his ground. He slept with her because he wanted to

[@tatesherman8273]

The scene where we are close up on Otto’s face was the most powerful for me. Really impressed and pleased with all the performances.

[@zamarickz]

I feel like Rhaenyra only wants to be queen because people keep telling her that she can't. She mentioned once that she would reform things once she was queen, which adds a little depth to her desire to be queen. But other than that everything we've seen indicates that she has no real interest in politics or appeasing lords or ruling the realm or even having children, which is vital to kingdom stability (as we've already seen). She also said that she wants to live in solitude? A queen can't live in solitude. It seems like she just wants to be free of all the expectations, and if that's what she wants she should have been begging her father to disinherit her. I guess she thinks becoming queen will absolve her of her insecurities and prove that she is "worthy," but we all know that's not true. The title of queen is just a mantle. It doesn't change you or what people think about you. Interesting character, but not one I'm rooting for (to be fair, not really rooting for anyone at this point). Edit: Actually I may root for Corlys Valarian. He seems pretty cool so far. His wife also seems like perhaps she would have been a good queen, so they really are the house that got shafted.

[@gus9663]

She's very much being an unreasonable teenager lol

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Their son was shafted. Her claim is fabricated by show

[@emmacapaldi4756]

I thought that the Maester giving her the tea was also sort of a catch-22 for her, she’s maybe left thinking “take the tea and prove you’re not a virgin by drinking it or don’t drink the tea and potentially become pregnant” I think the episode being directed by a woman made it so interesting by showing the intrigue, mild confusion, discomfort, and excitement of a young woman’s sexual awakening. Rhaenyra wouldn’t have known Daemon couldn’t get hard, she was just confused & abandoned (and left wanting). The thing that threw me off was the scarring on Matt Smith’s neck. Couldn’t tell if it was meant to be greyscale at first.

[@spots_of_violet]

That is exactly what I felt. I have to admit never expected to see such an empathetic take on the awakening sexuality of a young woman on a Game of Thrones-adjacent property. I loved that they didn't shy away from all the ambivalence - yes, Daemon has groomed her, but she seems to enthusiastically want him. For her, "seducing" Cole means empowerment, for him its a situation in which he hardly has a choice. At first, intercutting Alicent and Viserys with Daemon and Rhaenera feels like it's supposed to be juxtaposition - as the scene goes on you have to wonder if it's meant to emphasize parallels. The viewer can decide. This episode won me over for the whole show.

[@unflexian]

@@spots_of_violet nothing but facts

[@unflexian]

nitpicking, but could she could have drank half of the tea and diluted it with water maybe.

[@PDBisht]

Tha episode was mediocre and idk if they will take this approach for upcoming episodes i feel like the viewership going down.

[@unflexian]

@@PDBisht you out of touch, twitter and tiktok are going crazy over this episode.

[@DoMw4r]

"Kingdoms rise and fall based on who dicks who" -- Alt-Shift-X, 2022

[@grproteus]

1:01:56 She was accused of borking Daemon. She told the truth that Daemon "did not touch her", meaning she had no intercourse with him. Then this truth was "twisted" by Alicent, when she stated that "the princess swore she is still a maiden"

[@Spartacus114]

I really loved this episode and I think they're getting back to the great political intrigue that really made GoT so special. It was never about tits and dragons, it was about the political implications behind tits and dragons.

[@mekalunia]

Everyone hooking with everyone and then lying and backstabbing, this episode reminds me of a telenovela.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

A very good one, I presume.

[@kevinsolis5746]

I felt like I was transported back to 2007 with this episode

[@arjintiryaki6464]

Just like mushroom said

[@whynotcaptaincrunch]

The horrible sex scene between Alicent and Viserys made me think of Henry VIII. Later in his life he had this festering wound on his leg that would burst out in ulcers, and he must have been quite physically repulsive by the time he married Catherine Howard, who was 30 years younger than him. I think one of the neat things about this series is all the historical parallels.

[@PDBisht]

It wasn't horrible but bit sad yes.

[@greywolf7577]

Hey, Viserys can't control how he looks!

[@bensomes7662]

Never would I have though Matt Smith would be good at dirty talk - actually subverting expectations 🔥👌

[@madisonhouchin3643]

Christan clearly felt uncomfortable and hesitant and seemed to not fully have a choice, the power dynamic made it so it’s not really on him. It’s also hard to put blame on rhaenyra because she’s a young girl that doesn’t really fully grasp the power dynamics and that he couldn’t easily say no to her

[@greywolf7577]

If it were a boy Rhaenryra's age (likely around 17 at this point) and he pressured a serving woman ten years older than him to have sex with him, I think most people would see the serving woman as the victim. I don't think many people would think that he was too young at 17 to understand what he was doing.

[@Tonkertrucks]

@@greywolf7577 sure but if that young prince had minutes previously been molested by an older family member you could assume they're experiencing some sexual confusion that might lead them to making such a bad decision as coercing a servant. It's possible for them both to be victims

[@Elessar0wind]

Doesn't matter who's actually to blame, what matters is the consequences. If what they did gets out, both their reputations will be ruined, and their lives cut short. Cristen will no doubt be beheaded for treason and breaking his oaths, and Rhaenyra will truly lose all her freedoms, likely never marry, and be called a whore behind her back for the rest of her life. They'll both be punished by their society.

[@pg1448]

@@Tonkertrucks Daemon did not molest her. Come on, that was completely consensual, she was even more into it than him and being rejected caused her to take what she wanted from Cole instead.

[@danielburgess7101]

Otto was scheming yes, but he’s nothing alike to Littlefinger and such. Ultimately he does not want to create chaos for his own gain, he would still rather the realm thrive than thrive himself at the expense of everything around him. At least I think.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Not at all. It is directly against the interests of the realm for Viserys to marry Alicent. There is no possible way that would ever end up well. Laena Velaryon was 100% the correct call. Otto set in motion events that are gonna destroy House Targaryan permanently. And it is worse than what happened in GoT. But thats just cause in GoT basically the latter half didnt matter even a tiny bit. Like no massive shake downs occured. Even the Long Night was a absolute joke. Pretending Otto didnt scheme by causing chaos is inaccurate.

[@danielburgess7101]

@@7PlayingWithFire7 Given the Velaryons are already wed into the family and will shortly be again you can hardly say adding the wealth of Oldtown to the crown is that ‘chaotic’ of a move. Ambitious, yes, but not he same as sending the Catspaw assassin to kill Bran for example.

[@drawmelikeafrenchgirl]

There are no “heroes” in this story, and there are no “good guys”. A lot of people want to attach themselves to a “side” here, but Otto absolutely has his self-interest in mind. I do agree that he’d rather inherit a thriving realm than a broken realm, but ultimately he’d take it either way.

[@synthetic9500]

Otto is not a one-dimensional character. He wants what's best for the realm AND his self interest. Even Viserys knows this, as we heard in the discussion with Rhaenyra and claims that everyone in the council follows their own agenda. So far Otto's agenda between realm and self interest remained ballanced in the eyes of the king, however Rhaenyra's half-truth tipped it over and resulted in Vyseris doubt of Otto's judgement. I personally think the scales tipped over the moment he manipulated his daughter into romancing Viserys. She managed to comfort and strengthen him mentally with her warmth and giving him a male heir, however this damaged his relationship with Rhaenyra and the Sea Snake which ultimately hurt the real more than it helped. Both Otto and Rhaenyra spread chaos. But at least Rhaenyra is justified in doing so. I especially loved how she normalized her actions by mentioning the gender double standart of how men can be as promiscuous as they want, but not vice-versa.

[@pg1448]

@@7PlayingWithFire7 How so? Not marrying Laena may have pissed of Corlys somewhat but other than that didn't have any serious consequences. And the power of house Hightower is nothing to laugh at either. By marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor it could be easily fixed as well. Otto made a good match for his daughter, nothing else. The Targs have only themselves to blame for their eventual downfall. If Viserys had had the simple sense to name Aegon his heir, this whole shit show could have been avoided.

[@Aaron-yr3bj]

I don't think Mysaria betrayed Daemon I think that he had hear help him pay off the kid to snitch him and Rhaenyra out it makes sense he brought them out in public and took their disguises off but that doesn't insure that word gets out to the king I think he planned it all so that everyone would know that they fucked and her only choice would be to marry him strengthening both their claims but I think he and her shared a passionate moment and he felt bad for manipulating her and trapping her and he couldn't go through with it. That's why he didn't defend himself to the king and instead just asks his brother if he could marry her. That makes the most sense idk why at the end of the episode narrative they said that he got mad cause he couldn't get it up and felt like he was loosing control? It might be the case that he was in fact impotent because he felt awful about what he was about to do ruining one of the few people he truly loves innocence and name especially when he saw the love reciprocated.

[@melifullofthoughts]

They also said that he noticed that what he was doing wasn’t right 😂 And then they said that he didn’t like that he was not in control It’s one thing before another (he obviously cares about her aaaand realized that he felt bad for manipulating her - aaand he noticed that she wants him, and it’s not right that they almost did it in a brothel, lol)

[@matz4k]

the fact that you freestyle and manage the whole stream alone is crazy! Love it, greetings from germany

[@Alexander-James]

This episode was way better than the last one. I find the intrigue so interesting

[@jklau544]

God I hope they make a Blackfyre Rebellion series after HoTD

[@Death13Horseman]

I really hope they make this show an anthology series about the various Targaryen conflicts. They have to do the Blackfyre Rebellion after this one.

[@tonydanza5018]

@@Death13Horseman They did say that would be the case if the show was a success.

[@christiansmith131]

I really hope they do that next since this show is already so successful. I'd also like to see an aegons conquest show as well but not as much as the black fire rebellion

[@SandyCheeks1896]

Production wise it would be the easiest for them to transition into, and it would be the most satisfying story investment for the fans. Hell after that we could even move right up to Robert’s Rebellion

[@christiansmith131]

@@SandyCheeks1896 I'd love to see Robert in his prime. The fight with rhaegar

[@wealth_wolf]

With family so I unfortunately missed the stream. Episode is an automatic 10/10 imo solely for including Blackwood’s and Bracken’s.

[@incredibledn]

payoff to future blackfyre rebellions 👌🏻👌🏻

[@BattyButtercup]

Daemon unhooding Rhaenerya before entering that brothel combined with Mysaria's informing Otto of a Daemon/Rhaenyra hookup? That suggests to me that both of them were being Political in this episode, setting the stage for Daemon to claim the throne... through marrying Rhaenyra. I do wonder whether Daemon knew of Mysaria's moves, this episode, and whether he'd feel embittered at her methods - he got exiled, AGAIN, he might be angered at throwing scrutiny so directly at Rhaenyra - but, by linking Rhaenyra sexually with Daemon, Mysaria has established Precedent for a marriage between them: this kind of scandal isn't the kind that gets forgotten. Daemon might have only intended to get his neice interested in making him her consort but Mysaria ensured that Rhaenyra's OWN claim became jeopardized: her reputation and several relationships have been soured, undoubtedly, whilst Daemon gets away with a slap on the wrist and getting remembered by Rhaenyra as her "fun" uncle. Daemon wants that Spiky Chair and since Viserys denied him any claim, Rhaenyra is Daemon's "in": Mysaria doesn't seem to mind whether Daemon gets there as a King in his own right... or as Rhaenyra's consort. (Yes, there is a "connection" between Daemon & Rhaenyra: he's still been grooming her toward such a relationship from the very first episode & very plausibly BEFORE then, too)

[@maggots0007]

Exactly, Everything seemed very Political by Daemon.

[@yohanespaskal9352]

Good catch

[@fietspompje259]

@@maggots0007 I hate it when people are being Political.

[@balabanasireti]

​@@fietspompje259 K

[@fietspompje259]

@@balabanasireti its just a meme dude

[@jet687]

Rhaenyra was written so expertly in this episode! Avoiding talk, seeking validation, covering up and lashing out on the Hand... she was certainly a real person! The director of "How To Deal" did GOOD!

[@rezq9109]

Yes. I like how some of her actions might seem unsympathetic for some vieweres, but they are LOGICAL. Love it.

[@olly123451]

Man, I almost wish that Jon stabbed Dany with the valerian dagger, rather than some random shank. If they were thinking about this at the same time as thrones was wrapping up, that could have been an actual interesting twist… it wouldn’t have made it any worse, but I think it could have made these scenes with the knife more interesting looking forwards.

[@mpeazy7297]

ngl these new long reviews that i watch monday morning feel like a college lecture in the best way possible. love u shifty

[@Matt-ff4yw]

This was actually my favorite episode so far, I thought the cadence of the writing and directing was better than the previous ones which was the only thing throwing me a bit off from comparing it to game of thrones. My only complaint is that it seemed a bit drastic and out of nowhere for viserys to remove Otto as hand. The episodes prior viserys seemed to see him as incredibly loyal, seemed a bit steep to get rid of him so quickly.

[@seancarterx]

I think the important difference is on top of being told about rhaenyra and daemon from Otto, he realizes finally that Otto planted Alicent so they might get married. It was the double combo that made him fully question his loyalty

[@AdamBrown1980]

It looks like the cuts Viserys has received from the Iron Throne has given him Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating disease). All the symptoms make sense except for how slowly it progresses. Just a thought!

[@Morteih]

That throne has some serious case of Streptococcus pyogenes.

[@andreepacheco7980]

If only Dr. William Halsted existed in this World already

[@lukasausen]

well its progressing slowly because they are using worms to eat the dead flesh so it would slow down, but not on the level it has in the show but i think its more of a "show not tell" thingy they put it in earlier episodes so we can figure it ou before it actually happens so it wont come out of a suden and sound fake.

[@whosthtgirl]

How could anyone miss this? I originally thought perhaps someone is putting poison on it? In the books it alludes to questions regarding Viserys death being intentional, correct?

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

I like to think he’s scratching at it neurotically, and then eventually from phantom limb pains.

[@chenaraseepersad3482]

I really loved the “why couldn’t they send hot people” comment like for real if they all looked like daemon or criston she might have been more open to it

[@christinacatalano]

lol! For real.

[@ShubertReads]

Another nice, calm, civilized discussion in the livechat 😅

[@thehoopman88]

You did a good job ... but it was a cesspool at times tho 🙃🤣

[@MrKYT-gb8gs]

Lol what did I miss

[@davedogge2280]

@@MrKYT-gb8gs I bet it was people grumbling about the matriarchy or patriarchy or anarchy.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

Don't listen or pay attention to ANYTHING that livechats say at all, all they do is just complain no matter WHERE the chat is at in ANY channel so it's best to always ignore them.

[@Don11037]

First time on the internet

[@kramens1222]

when the fortune teller asked Rhaenyra if she wanted to know how she would die, the next frame lmao IYKYK

[@laracuevas1223]

The existence of your videos and live discussions makes my experience with this show so much better, thank you very much! Greetings from Argentina :)

[@esco6004]

Episode 3: Rhaenyra and Cole are in the woods. Cole senses something is wrong when the horses sense it. Episode 3: White Deer scene, Rhaenyra is on her horse, Cole is walking among the horses. Episode 4: Rhaenyra sex scene, Rhaenyra rides Cole. *Cole is a horse, Canon

[@Haveldorf]

This episode was fucking incredible, it captured the tone of the books better than almost anything from GOT.

[@xarmanhsh2981]

i am in love with this show man

[@Haveldorf]

@@xarmanhsh2981 If they keep up this level of quality it will easily surpass the heights of Game of Thrones. (Season 1-4) Hopefully they don't make any big fuck ups or stupid decisions like Jamie assaulting Cersei. (I will never forgive them for that)

[@twiss9341]

@@Haveldorf Jaime assaulting Cersei? Are you referring to the scene in the Sept near Joffrey body? Because if so, I had no idea that wasn’t in the books! What a strange thing to add 😂 of all the things

[@Haveldorf]

@@twiss9341 do you know what i'm saying? They give Jamie this massive redemption arc where he has that crushing scene in the bath with Brienne and then saves her... just for him to assault Cersei and have no recompense for it.

[@greywolf7577]

@@Haveldorf I think that scene fit the context, though. Jaime had a long history of having sex with Cersei. He was in an emotional moment and needed the comfort of that sex again. So he forced Cersei to have sex with him because he viewed her "no" as less sincere since she had said yes so many times before. Yes, it's wrong and twisted, but I think it is believable that a man with trauma would do something like that.

[@bradenelmlinger9865]

I first checked out this channel last week because Mauler, Nerdrotic, and Shadiversity spoke glowingly of it. Boy were they right, Alt Swift X you are incredible!

[@Naithesther7085]

The distressing scene here was when Alicent was tired and ready to go to sleep then Viserys called for her smh.

[@SeanJonesYT]

Some interesting things I noticed which weren’t discussed I don’t think… 1) you mentioned that the moon tea can be brewed improperly which can cause harm to the reproductive system. Is it possible the maester INTENTIONALLY brewed it improperly? If they could render Rhenyra infertile, they can guarantee that Aegon II would become king. 2) in episode 1, when the maesters we’re dealing with the King’s back wound caused by the throne, it’s interesting that the maesters kind of said “there’s nothing more we can do” UNTIL the little intern helper suggested cauterizing the wound, and only then did they agree that’s what they should do. I wonder has the kid not spoken, would the maesters just try to act like they tried everything and in the hope he could die from the wound? I forget if that scene was before or after the birth of Baelon, but if it was before, perhaps the maesters thought the birth would be successful and by killing the king, Otto could rule as hand and shape the future of westeros while the child came of age…

[@greywolf7577]

Spoilers from the book..... Rhanerya eventually has even more kids than Alicent, so I don't think the moon tea did anything negative to her reproductive tract. The only time she miscarrages is when Aegon II claims the throne, and that could be due to the stress, not anything wrong with her reproductive tract.

[@trafridrod8706]

You got a comment asking if you thought Ser Criston was really willing or was pressured into getting into hanky panky with Rhaenyra. I think its possible that you misunderstood the question (or I did) because you said that, due to his kingsguard vows, he shouldn't have, even if she was commanding it. But my understanding of the question is was he willing. As in, did he want to. Was he consenting of his own volition, or just because she was in a position of power over him. The very last episode he straight up told her that the only reason he has the station in life that he does, is because of her. She holds all power over him, and even if he he told his commander "Well I vowed to be chaste" all she has to do is say, "He assaulted me". Not hard to decide which of the two someone would believe. At no point does Ser Criston give consent, he resists a couple times and then goes along, but obviously seems uncomfortable. It's possible he is crushing on her, and he's been having his own steamy dreams about this, but as you pointed out earlier in the stream, it seems he knows what he did is not good, but he was put in a position where either decision he made was going to turn out poorly for him. If he did in fact spurn Rhaenyra he could be out of the castle, or even worse could get a haircut at the neck.

[@nickhoppers9308]

I thoroughly enjoy these livestreams and enjoy them for your analysis of the show and I thank you for doing it. I understand why you want content that is book spoiler free for the majority of fans that are more casual. But I’m having a hard time finding content that talks about book spoilers in conjunction with the show as it’s released. Your core fan base that watched all your videos in the years between the end of GoT and now and we are the ones that will stick around during content droughts, and I’m sure I’m not the only fan of yours that would like to hear your analysis with book spoilers included in a separate live stream or video. Regardless of you doing it or not, I thank you for all the work you put out and will continue to support you and your content

[@yellowhouse4911]

Yeah like how many casual fans would sit through a 3 hour live stream for just one episode?

[@TheChris2RC]

@@yellowhouse4911 me! I stopped watching Hello Future Me's covarage because of bookspoilers showing up in his analysis

[@dnatsrednUouYoD]

@@TheChris2RC I'm the exact opposite of you haha. I'm a show watcher who has never read (and will probably never read) the books... And I LOVE the comparitive breakdowns - spoilers and all. I definitely want to find a channel that goes deep into the book lore and history ALONG WITH the show episode by episode - but that's just how I like to consume my content :P Just saying this to point out there are you's and there are me's :) we both exist!

[@bplup6419]

Anyone else uncomfortable during the Criston Clapping? Said no, didn't want to do it and takes off his cloak and looks at it heartbroken. Could he actually refuse her without huge future retaliation? I think the worst part is that Rhaenyra has no idea what she did to him. It'd be even worse if Criston just found out he was Daemon's sloppy seconds.

[@nunyabiznes33]

He'd probably find out much later when he actually develop genuine feelings for her and that's what's going to push him to go the opposite side.

[@rachiejw]

I really hope Emma has as much chemistry with Matt as Milly does! You can tell Daemon and Rhaenyra really want each other

[@dubudubudan]

bro

[@unflexian]

daemon groomed her from their first scene together, what he did this episode was nothing more than a political play for him, and he made sure she was drunk and isolated. it's not chemistry it's an abuse of a power dynamic, even if she didn't flinch or whatever.

[@PDBisht]

I hope they marry i want to see them together.

[@Starrypaws64]

Man...

[@ousmanjallow7866]

It’s not that deep🤣💀

[@notribadsvault]

The problem with the idea that Daemon didn’t say “heir for a day” is that Otto has yet to actually directly lie to Viserys. Plus I just think the idea is really stupid considering he didn’t even try to deny it, and I don’t buy for a second that he would put up with Otto manipulating Viserys against him so brazenly.

[@Wveth]

He probably did say it, just not in the tone Otto implied. Also, in this episode he DEFINITELY could have defended himself by saying he didn't have sex with Rhaenyra, which is technically true. So he doesn't always defend himself when he can, which I imagine is because he's conflicted about his actions.

[@notribadsvault]

@@Wveth That’s what I kinda think too, Daemon is an asshole but he’s not 100% a dick. And I think the way he responded kinda supports that.

[@poenpotzu2865]

It's interesting how the sex scenes show that the gender roles and systemic issues allows these problematic behaviors to occur. Viserys martial rape with Alicent, Daemon grooming Rhaenyra, and Rhaenyra coercing Cole.

[@ruleoftwo6174]

It's is effing ridiculous ppl inject modern social construct into all these views. What does it do for you. Make u feel morally superior? Make u feel better about urself. So pathetic. These things have happened throughout human history and will continue to do so. Cope

[@kvm6]

marital*

[@frankvandorp2059]

And interestingly, all three perpetrators here were the three most powerful Targaryens, but the only one of them who got second thoughts and decided to not push through with it was Daemon.

[@tequilasunset4651]

@@frankvandorp2059 last episode was about violence with the same three characters, Viserys being the conflicted one.. Rhaenyra needs to complete the trifecta next episode

[@itnotmeitu3896]

Rape? What?

[@PanzerIVAE]

Hot D finally lives up to this acronym :D

[@ankejl3830]

Otto says to Viserys that some servants saw Rheanyra getting in at night, so I suppose thats how she got in. She would be more recognizable than Arya, who had only just arrived and wasn't the heir to the throne.

[@mundaneglassworks]

Loved the foreshadowing of her possible future hinted at by the Old Fortune Teller when She's wandering the streets of Kings Landing with Daemon.

[@rattiegirl5]

Maegor seems based on Henry VIII. A tiny spoiler- the baby girl that we see Alicent carrying- Halaena- ends up riding Dreamfyre- who is the mother of several of the dragons- including possible Daenerys' dragons. We hear about Dreamfyre in Episode 2.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

I thought Aemond was older than Helaena :0.

[@emilybarclay8831]

@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ nope, Helaena 109 Aemond 110

[@hehasaspaceship4229]

Alt Shift X scrolling through that episode on a live stream on KZbin takes a kind of bravery I do not know

[@magister343]

My big problem with this episode is that a lot of scenes looked like D&D were in charge of the lighting.

[@patryk_lewandowskiabc]

Can you elaborate?

[@notmocka]

@@patryk_lewandowskiabc way too many way too dark scenes

[@deadgum11]

I kind of miss having all of the different plot lines going on that we had in thrones, its great to be back in the world of Westeros, but this episode we'd have had The Wall, Winterfell, Kings Landing, Vaes Dothrak, The Vale and an army camp, now we just have Kings Landing, it's not the shows fault, it is what it is, but I do miss seeing all the different environments.

[@poenpotzu2865]

We probably will soon in the near future

[@o3941]

Because those locations were important to the plot. There is nothing relevant in those locations (except maybe Corlys doing his thing in Essos?) to the plot.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

I mean yeah, that's just the way how the story is made as it's not as diverse in plotlines compared to game of thrones as it's mainly JUST about the Targareyan house and they're inner conflicts with one another.

[@yoitsmig]

Who cares, this is awesome.

[@kai-xi2zh]

in the future the scope will be bigger as everyones world begins to crumble, read the book.

[@AlexWhyte139]

I took Daemon strafing the boat on Caraxes as him flexing for Rhaenyra. Also kind of a dominance thing. It plays as a metaphor for how he treats her later on in the episode when he takes her out of her comfort zone in order to entice her

[@adenlycosky]

Are we certain the 2 "coupled"? I thought yes wow. No doubt.... until Daemon woke up and the kid was giving money to Daemons gf. I'm thinking maybe this was a setup to get Otto to overplay his hand. All he had to do was get her there be seen and know that Otto couldn't resist.

[@yellowhouse4911]

It seemed like they really didnt, that Daemon left in the middle of their little foreplay.

[@atherisGAY]

I think you are right on the money here.

[@Leakampff]

Yeah I really didn't even give the idea that they did "couple" much thought. It seems blatantly clear to me that Daemon left before engaging fully. Loved the episode so much going on

[@genericuser-1]

I think Otto is gonna give Alicent a "you have to save the world" speech before he leaves.

[@Naithesther7085]

Same thought

[@gus9663]

Given Rhaenyra's behavior, Alicent might get on board with her father's line of thinking fairly soon

[@Smallzv]

Completely unrelated, but as a tabletop/diorama fan, I was gushing at every shot of the Valyria model. Its way bigger than the previous episodes led us to believe.

[@poenpotzu2865]

I think it's getting bigger

[@rachelfallonauthor]

I thought Rhaenyra just backtracked to Balerions skull room then went back to her room the way she usually does from there. Since they specially showed her realizing the passage lead through there.

[@twiss9341]

LOL yeah I was a bit ??? about that

[@firemochimc]

In the books those passages are insanely convoluted and long. It's reasonable for her not going back that way.

[@greywolf7577]

Yeah, maybe she went back in the secret entrance and then got lost and came out somewhere else inside the Red Keep and just walked back to her room from there.

[@TwobitRules]

In the Inside the Episode this week, Rhaenyra’s actress pointed out that she didn’t *technically* lie to Alicent about having sex with Daemon, she only told Alicent that Daemon “didn’t touch her,” which I’m not sure if that was meant to merely imply to her that it was consensual lollygagging or that there was no sexual interaction between them at all, which sort of leaves Rhaenyra’s statement to Alicent even more complicated for me

[@skywatcheradept]

Rhaenyra tried to pull a Bill Clinton testimony trick in denying what happened between her & Daemon.

[@d.m.collins1501]

This show TOTALLY switched me from being Team Alicent to being Team Rhaenyra. Which speaks SO HIGHLY of the show. Especially when you consider that Alicent, at least on paper, has been a much more sympathetic character than Rhaenyra in the TV series. And yet there's something about Rhaenyra's rebelliousness that just feels more deserving of praise.

[@konradvonschnitzeldorf6506]

Rhaenyra is clearly the protagonist in the show, so it's not that surprising

[@greywolf7577]

I think if Alicent got as much screen time as Rhaenyra does, then people might feel differently. I just go by the fact that in most Medieval societies, the first born son is the heir, regardless of whether he has an older sister. So the easy answer is that Aegon II is the heir.

[@pg1448]

Her rebelliousness is essentially just selfishness and irresponsibility. She could use some of Alicents sense of duty and diplomacy if she wants to be a good queen that is loved and respected by her subjects.

[@user-fs2io2dc6w]

Just make the blackwood kid king

[@sayaalicious9146]

Alicent and Rhaenyra’s friendship breakup will be my villain origin story

[@roih2658]

These Q&As are what chicken soup for the soul must feel like. Thanks so much for that!

[@itskashkashi]

I think the question is if cole could really consent with the power imbalance between them.

[@working_chen6988]

There is also two sides of the Moontea scene, and Viserys made a brilliant move and put her in a difficult choice: 1) If she drinks the tea means that she admitted to had s*x with Damon (or had s*x with someone). 2) If she didn't drink the tea means that she didn't had s*x with Damon (Or with anyone). Because there is no reason for her to drink it if she is innocent. 3) Even if she drinks it and still says she didn't had s*x with Damon, she still has to explain who she had s*x with. (Which will put her in a place with Cristian) Brilliant move Viserys, brilliant move.

[@greywolf7577]

Or she drinks it and then tells the maester she pored it down the sink because she didn't need it.

[@working_chen6988]

@@greywolf7577 The other issue would be pregnancy - because she would be in a risky situation with pregnancy, and how is she going to explain it?

[@brandendierker5873]

I think otto paid the boy for spying and then the boy gave the money to his true master

[@TCthaCrisis]

Varys... who we finally learn he's over 300 years old.

I took it as Daemon teasing her enough to make her desire for more and make her look bad in front of others; knowing that word would spread eventually about her in the brothel and that would leave him as only possible candidate to marry her regardless if she was still a maiden or not. I thought it was calculated, that's what I'm saying.

[@malovela]

Hi Alt Shift X; I want to tell you that your videos are among the very few things in my life that are able to distract me awhile from the agony I'm in every day because my father is suffering from advanced Parkinson's Disease. The hours I spend listening to your exceptionally pleasant voice delivering intelligent content with humour, insight, humanity and, in live streams, an impressive degree of patience and respectfulness... those are sufferable hours. (Also, regardless of my emotional state, I find it's a rare treat to come across a seemingly supremely likable person on the internet talking about a subject that I'm deeply interested in - and doing so without a single recurring annoying element, such as intro music, hyper vibe, distractingly odd diction, completely irrelevant tangents etc.) So thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@malovela]

P.S.: I'd like to express my gratitude with more than words and likes, but the stupid effing Danish payment security system won't let me donate; I've tried several times and am presently situated about halfway up the wall. But I'll try again another day.

[@gd1247]

I love the contrast between three sex scenes all showing dubious consent of varying degrees. Very good, grey character writing.

[@beautifulcarpetdiagram]

I felt like the Cole scene wasn't consensual for Cole because Rhaenyra was in a position of power, and it felt for me like he couldn't have said 'no.'

[@echolocationn]

Also, Daemon was the culprit to it all. If he had not bailed on Rhaenyra and finished what he initiated, then she wouldn't have gone sniffing for someone to finish the job, which was Cole.

[@RamielLilith]

I'ma keep it a buck. The King is really killing this role (everyone) The passion is definitely there.

[@daroe2340]

Otto Got so overconfident in his ability to manipulate the weaknesses of Viserys that he way overstepped his situation here, which was completely evident when the Viserys’ first response to hearing “your daughter was in a brothel” was to say “so fucking what?”

[@echolocationn]

It was so refreshing that Viserys finally got his head out of his ass and understood that Otto has been manipulating him from the get-go. The real question is, what is going to happen to Alicent now that Viserys understands that Otto manipulated her into being what Viserys needed at the exact time that he needed it?

[@cancerino666]

Yeah... But he wasn't manipulating him here. He clearly didn't even want to tell him.

[@sprycmg]

Am i the only one who finds Rhaenyra to be one of the less smpathetic characters in the story so far?

[@rezq9109]

@@Insider887 ...and that's how princesses realistically should be? I'm more surprised she isn't worse than just being rich privileged brat that has no idea how world can be cruel outside of her castle. King's daughter absolutely shouldn't give a crap about opinions of common folks and duels of small lords for her hand. That's called good writing. And she is right, all these childish decisions of hers wouldn't have been questioned if she was a prince.

[@mysteriousstranger2695]

Yeah she is irresponsible,not very smart and weak willed.Definitly not a good player.Thats why she will be remembered as king maegor with teats.Still a pretty intresting character to watch in my opinion.Writers are doing a good job with her

[@madelynmorgan2999]

same! i feel like the greens are much more sympathetic at this point

[@taytayqueen7024]

@@madelynmorgan2999 I’ve realised it depends on what you value more as a person. If you as a person value duty and honour more, you will be team green. If you value rebellion and independence, you are more likely to be team black. I’ve seen this amongst people I’ve asked.

[@queenb2450]

@@Insider887 EXACTLY - both Daemon and Rhaenyra believe you can do whatever you want and your word is law (as I'm re-watching Game of Thrones, Viserys says to Dany that he is King and can do whatever he wants) what a fatal flaw the Targaryens have. So many people are blind to it and I'm like ???

[@Janny_Gurrrl]

Daemon specifically pulled Rhaenyra’s cap off in the brothel - possibly to make sure she was identified? Also - I interpreted the money Mysaria took from the urchin was what Otto had paid him for the information. I’m on the fence tho about whether Daemon and Mysaria are in cahoots to weaken Viserys or if she’s working with Otto to ruin Daemon.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Lol criston facial expression looked like it wasn't very consensual on his part. I like that we got a definite answer to what exactly happened since the book has three different accounts I think or maybe just two

[@poenpotzu2865]

There was definitely a power play

[@McCammalot]

I agree and I didn't like it. The power imbalance is close to horrifying.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

LOL What? It WAS consensual ENTIRELY so on Criston's part entirely. His "facial expression" showed nothing but worry and concern about his duty and his attraction to her, that's it. He was just being seduced as he knew he can get in trouble, he wasn't being "forced" to anything, Rhenyara can't do anything at all to him with something like that. It was ALL his choice to be with her.

[@fsmfsm9941]

@@Gadget-Walkmen the princess can make up whatever she wants and get him beheaded if he doesn't fuck her

[@Tonkertrucks]

@@Gadget-Walkmen she is the princess of the realm and heir to the throne, who is almost immediately after shown to be someone who would lie on her mother's grave to her former best friend about the fact that she had also just been assaulted by her uncle. It's a pretty obvious commentary on both cycles of abuse and relational power dynamics. Like she's literally his boss and could have him killed at the snap of her fingers, his consent is pretty compromised. Regardless of if he might've enjoyed it, she forced him to forsake a vow he pretty clearly takes seriously and gave him no real option to say no. It's obviously still his responsibility to do so, but you can't ignore the imbalance of power in that relationship.

[@tonyfknb3896]

24:51 Oh they were at Stormsend! I was wondering why a Baratheon was sitting next to her

[@unflexian]

My favorite moment this episode was the shot from daemon's pov while he's being dragged into the throne room. With great effort he looks up at the throne, but eventually resigns himself to watch the floor flying by, the most he can do in his drunken state. I got that he's thinking "So things are going to plan but now has come the part of the plan where I face the consequence for my actions, and even though this is good for me it's still gonna hurt like hell." Plus the shot is just beautiful and super unique.

[@maxNYGuk]

For me I don’t see the black bias all that much, maybe in terms of time spent with the characters. If we’re being honest Corlys happily pimped out his 12 year old daughter the same as Otto. I think people just love Daemon and Rhaenyra cause they’re great characters but Otto really isn’t a despicable guy. I think he’s a less extreme Tywin with a better morale compass, simply trying to do better for his family. I don’t think he’s a villain at all, just a clever schemer.

[@idawg7332]

Honestly from fire and blood I was more of a black supporter because of how visery's advisors go against his will but from what I've seen of Rhaenyra so far she'd be a horrible ruler. Of course Aegon could be just as bad but we'll have to see. Also I find Alicent way more likeable than in the book. Fire and blood made her seem like Cersei but in the show she's more Margaery combined with Sansa

[@queenb2450]

@@idawg7332 Funny enough too, in the books I'm team black but in the show, I'm leaning green. I think because people always root for the "main" characters - Rhaenyra - they think everyone against them is bad, but when you take a step back you realize they kinda suck too

[@greywolf7577]

The only bias of the show toward the blacks is that they made Rhaenyra the main character of the show. Also in the modern era, they know it is hard to root for the younger male to get the throne due to his gender and they throw all of those lines by Rhaenyra protesting gender inequality. But from a Medieval point of view, Aegon II is the clear heir.

[@queenb2450]

@@greywolf7577 good thing Westeros has nothing to do with medieval times because it’s fiction

[@kagekirke9799]

As a man who has been raped by woman in a position of power over me it is disturbing how you repeatedly denounce this as an option. Multiple people brought it to your attention that he had no real choice and you just discarded it. He made no advances. She jumped on him and for the few seconds he was on top he very clearly hesitated before she mounted him. This was rape straight out. If the roles were switched no one would argue that this was an abuse of power. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this is disturbing. The man was placed in a situation that could lead to his death either way and your response was, 'he's a grown ass man'. Being a grown ass man doesn't help one escape the possible consequences of a situation.

[@kagekirke9799]

In that kind of situation where doing and not doing are both wrong answers the only logical response is to just stand there and not engage or encourage. You'll get some response at a certain point eventually from a man because of course but he did god damn near everything a man could to remain neutral before being forced to pick the best of worst options. Saying he's a grown ass man and had a better choice is disgusting to me. She stripped him dragged him to bed and then mounted him. Yeah his choice obviously.

[@kagekirke9799]

"She didn't stop me from fucking her!"

[@Tonkertrucks]

Yeah I kinda noped out of the Livestream when he first brought it up but it's upsetting that he doubled down on it

[@joe-mama94]

That was certainly abuse of power I must say

[@glencoco4444]

There’s definitely a huge power imbalance and I think by now we all know how big the influence of power is and how and imbalance can cause non consensual situation and rape. But I don’t think the director was trying to depict rape in this instance. It seemed like there has been sexual tension between the two for a while and like they both wanted it.