Am I Good Enough to Be a Pro Musician?

Dr. John Mortensen answers the common question: Should I go pro?
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[@cedarvillemusic]

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[@thenetworkmystery]

This might be the best video I've ever watched (well actually, I just laid down, closed my eyes, and listened). I'm not kidding. In fact, this channel is! He explains stuff so well, and it's so relatable.

[@bibelauswendig3708]

Oh, great! Very thougthful thoughts, thank you! I´m switching back and forth between earning money from music and having non-musical jobs and still can´t answer, which is better. Sometimes being musician means so much organizing and managing... then I think, I´d be better off having a "regular" work and enjoying playing music as a hobby. I´m not even sure, which of boths ways (amateur vs. pro) helps me more in improving and expressing myself as an artist... And I´ve come to think, that church-musician is a nice thing. The "audience" is there without you putting plenty of marketing-efforts in it. And I even like it not being in the spotlight so much. Because, of course, God is (or shoud be).

[@andrewhicks8340]

I was a church organist/choirmaster. From about the age of thirty it was my full time job; not a lot of money but enough. It was a good life, and I think that I did good work. I retired a few years ago, and have been learning to be an amateur. It has been hard to dial back the work ethic that was my life for fifty years or so (from when as a teenager I got serious about music) and have a little more fun with it and do things that are not music and not church. Thank you for this excellent video! Some good ideas that apply to my stage of life.

[@cisium1184]

Great video, although I'd facetiously disagree that it's a hard question - it's really two easy questions. One, if you make money making music, you're a professional musician. And two, if enough people like your stuff, you'll be considered "special."

[@yongli4304]

Both relative and subjective

[@rodthom86]

One of the things that people don't think about is> Are you Special? *Yes*, Do people care about this? *No*, Can you make money only by being special *No, because people don't care and they are not paying you just to see you boasting yourself*. Real life is much more than about being special. Being an amateur seems to have more advantages for a lot of people and that's the way I prefer as well.

[@marshwetland3808]

I never thought I oculd be professional, nor do I feel a need to perform for anyone. I felt bad at the end when he talked about community, because I don't even have one, musically. People in my area and that I've known don't even like the music I do. Quite irrespective of the fact I'm a total amateur. It's hard to find anyone to play with. But I started taking lessons in the hope I can play well enough to at least attract some musical friends somewhere, somehow.

[@pianisthenics]

The most important in performing career is connection. Everyone up there has insane talents, has worked countless of hours, has huge repertoire but connection with the right people, agency, organization can get you much further.

[@billrogers5219]

Absolutely an amateur; you've laid out the advantages for an amateur very well. One thing I've noticed is that I'm starting to enjoy amateur performances in people's homes more than hearing top flight pros in big venues. Obviously the amateurs make more mistakes, but there's something about being so close to the music, seeing that it's a human activity done by other ordinary humans who love it, that I find as moving or more moving than all but the greatest professional performances.

[@petermcmurray2807]

A superb evaluation of a musical life. Love the Dunning Kruger mention (a 1990s study) - for over 40 years I have used the expression "The Arrogance of Ignorance". I started music very late in life and love Theory, illness severely limited my performance capability. I would love to teach youngsters the basics as the base is really simple but often very poorly taught. For myself I admire people like yourself who have explored the universe of music education. However the ability to feed oneself or enjoy family life if you are performing here there and everywhere needs to be seriously considered - I spent far too many lonely months travelling as a computer professional always convinced things would be better..

[@SamuelJFord]

Great video. Amateur for me, I can continue to happily plod through Bach's 48 with little stress about it.

[@thearm95]

...for me, being able to play Prelude No. 1 in C

[@aaroncampmusic]

I always enjoy these videos. There is a lot to be said for being an amateur. The idea of "just an amateur" has a negative connotation, but I don't think it has to be that way. Also, there is something about the idea of being an amateur but still being an excellent musician that seems attractive. Tim May, the L.A. session guitarist, mentioned that he knows amateurs who are great players. There's a certain "have your cake and eat it, too" about that.

[@davidjoseph3403]

David Hume is widely considered one of the most impactful philosophers of the western tradition. Total amateur. Never secured a position. Roused Kant. Was well respected by a lot guys getting paid to teach and think.

[@JC050980]

This is a nice analysis for what it takes to become a musician in the _classic_ musical field. However, I know and have met people that aren't 'good' enough to be a conservatory trained musician, yet thrive in their field. What musicians need nowadays is entrepeneurship: do you really want to become a stage musician, or would regularly performing in, say, a nursing home suit you just fine? Or being a musician for hire for background music at parties etc.? I know someone who has built his carrier on the latter. Personally, I'm not 'good' enough to be a stage pianist, but I do play the organ and the piano in various churches, and the responses are mostly good. At the moment, this suits me fine. I'm also becoming better at improvisation, which helps me do what I like. I hardly earn anything with it, but that's also due to the fact I'm not a savvy entrepeneur. Oh yes, and I also know stage musicians who are unable to make a living from just their music...

[@marshwetland3808]

Lots of people play in rock bands for decades and love it and make money, and I'm not talking famous names, but locally well known bar bands or whatever. You'd have to pay me to do it, but many other people love it and do it even if it means they'll never buy a home, but just scrape by. (Talked to people like this - now they work at a music store and play on the side, in some cases.)

[@FlexLessons]

Great video! I appreciate that you mentioned "being extraordinary at an ordinary job" as an option. I really wish this was explained to me when I first started working on my degree.

[@DrQuizzler]

I have vivid memories of music school, and wonderful heady moments while ramping up for performances, especially with large groups where it was super-fun, and the elephant in the room would show up in the form of the question: "How will I make a living doing this?" which I became pretty good at dismissing. It's really too bad career guidance wasn't a feature of a formal music education back then. A talk like this from someone in the know would have saved me an extra couple years of looking for music work before I eventually chose a different career path, one which allowed me to choose music projects for my own sheer enjoyment. This is potentially a very useful talk for the next generation. Also congrats on how you "Young Sheldon"ed that professor into accepting you into his program back in the day!!

[@raqueljones946]

Perhaps not exactly on topic but if you have a remorseless drive to create and play your own music, to the point where life without it would be unthinkable, then it is expedient to make sure early on that you are very good at at least one other thing. This because a true creator by definition of the word is compelled to constantly push forward into the new, the individual, and it is very unlikely, almost impossible in fact, that the resulting creations will find external favour with enough people to earn a living from them. If you want all the usual things in life most people do, such as having a family, a decent home, something to hope for, stability, then you can use the second skill to support your creativity in complete freedom. At seventy-six I count myself lucky that I understood this in my youth and rejected my music teacher's advice that I become a professional.

[@achaley4186]

Very good and kind video. You must be an amazing teacher. I have your book and learned Rule of the Octave from you. Thanks ! 🙂⭐❤🙏🏼

[@diosolo2847]

Great video Professor! Thank you so much for given us this outlet. During Covid it kept me going. I cannot thank you enough.

[@jordidewaard2937]

This one hits very close to home. Like many others, I wanted to go to a conservatory, even to the point where I got admitted to one. I ended up turning it down and pursuing law instead though, and I do not regret it. Covid has truly opened my eyes to the fragility of the area (whether you are teaching or performing) in my country. I still actively practice, but I don't try and skip 2-3 'levels' like I used to because I was on a time limit to get good enough for the admittance exam (I started at 16). I genuinely lost my sense of fun at the piano and I remember the Chopin revolutionary etude (along with Clair de Lune) made me burn out completely, to the point where I didn't touch the piano for 2 weeks (which was A LOT for me at the time). Now, I can enjoy all the composers and their music pieces, whatever I feel like doing. I can play Mendelssohn, I can play Brahms, I don't need to force myself through the Bach wtc (though I do enjoy learning them a lot), and the list goes on and on.

[@Aerospace_Education]

I'm actually looking at this somewhat opposite. I became an engineer but love teaching on the side. I teach aviation as a hobby to High School and College ROTC kids. As I'm beginning to look at my 50's in a few years, I'm thinking about starting a music school in our area. We are a growing small/mid sized city, but without really a central music school. I came from Rochester and we had Eastman's community school and the Hochstein music school which was fantastic. I've had some success in my career which allows me some flexibility with funding of the idea. I went to get my Masters in Education and am wondering if going to a Music School to add to the street cred would be beneficial or not. Do smaller music schools even take adults?

[@dominiquehaughton1186]

Your comment very much resonated with me. I am 68, just retired from a career in academia (in math and statistics) and about 7 years ago I went in for a bachelor of music in piano performance and sound recording technology which I completed May 2022, and am now pursuing piano studies at the école normale Cortot in Paris where there is no age limit. Age is not an issue, within a week or two your classmates and others will have forgotten the age difference. If it’s anything like me you will feel constant impostor syndrome. Whether or not you plan to earn money with music it makes a world of difference to study in a professional program with classmates who are looking to make music their career. My recommendation: do it. It is literally life transforming!

[@Aerospace_Education]

@@dominiquehaughton1186 Congrats and thanks for the comments!

[@couchphotography8861]

@@dominiquehaughton1186 sounds like you are finally living the life you were meant to be living. Wasn't this the school where Eric Satie studied? Anyway, good for you!

[@dansheridan3316]

🎉😂😂😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

I went into this video thinking I just wanted to watch it so I could see other videos, even though I know I will never even be an amateur musician. But I liked listening to this.

[@amandajstar]

Interesting how Americans pronounce the word amateur as 'ama-chure'. Growing up English, we always said 'ama-ter', which is basically the French. I must say, I still prefer it.

[@jazzjens]

Wonderful thoughts and statement! THANX a lot❣

[@Cookie82772]

This is great general career advice, not just for musicians.

[@michaelcalder9089]

Im not special but artistically high level,(clarinet & a capella singing) always learning. Love performing music especially classical/ baroque but all amateur groups are too old and prefer not to practice resulting in poor aptitude. Tried university mainly for aspiring professionals but the course work and rehersal program squeezed any joy from playing.😮

[@fortissimo2036]

Amateur or not, just play the music and entertain!!! Everyone is a pro in my book who is willing to work hard to make meaningful music. Great video explaining what it takes to be a stage musician or not though 😊

[@JoseVGavila]

This video is PURE GOLD advice. Many thanks for it!

[@amandajstar]

Very wise, but I would say that you have to be wary of not 'receiving affirmation' as a cue. My family has an allergy to praise: they seem to believe that the capacity to perform and the urge to create is a form of exhibitionism: it's 'showing off'. I have struggled with this all my life, persisting in my creative endeavours (I'm primarily an author, but also a singer-songwriter and visual artist) in spite of the weird love-you/raining on my parade. The point is: if you are creative, BELIEVE IN YOURSELF -- and, as Dr Mortensen says: DO THE WORK. Otherwise, your loving family and friends will undermine you without even wishing to, and you will never achieve your real potential.

[@LogicalQ]

Here is my response to this question: Who is the audience you want to extract your success from?

[@mjxsh3lm]

This is a wonderful video! Thank you.

[@kosmolove3723]

Thanks for discussing this important topic. I had very harmful things said to me by music teachers, which in hindsight had nothing to do with music. A professional-anybody has a capacity for work, thats all. Just out of interest, who is pictured hanging on your wall?

[@cedarvillemusic]

Rachmaninoff. Painted by one of my students.

[@davidjoseph3403]

Love it. Can't get paid to be special. Not facetious, might be regarded as somewhat insensitive. Love your posts.

[@bw2082]

In my opinion if you have to ask if you can make it as a touring concert pianist, the answer is 99% no. You would have been discovered by now or already put on the path.

[@wanirene8087]

in my opinion, it is 200% NO. LOL

[@ErikaWeiss]

there are many piano performance related jobs other than concert pianist though

[@bw2082]

@@ErikaWeiss yes but that’s not normally what people are asking. They’re always asking if they can be a concert pianist. Out of 8 billion people in the world there are less than a couple of dozen who can do this. The odds are not good.

[@dominiquehaughton1186]

The odds are near impossible and I am a statistician by profession. Where I am able to continue my piano studies at école normale Cortot where mercifully there is no age limit, virtuoso pianists (as in Gaspard de la nuit virtuosos) are a dime a dozen.

[@most_sane_piano_enthusiast]

There is a small chance you can become one if you are some exceptional child prodigy, but it is still very unlikely. I often see young hypervirtuosos upload their godly performances of extremely difficult pieces to only get like 200 views. Meanwhile some kid playing with toys gets millions. Life is cruel.

[@tomgnau]

Never doubted for a moment that I am an amateur of the rank variety. Nevertheless: I still love music.

[@southpark4151]

Very good video.

[@Mico-Xiyeas]

U r always good enough, the question is whether ur skilled enough

[@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so]

Congratulations, you're a qualified barista!

[@gretareinarsson7461]

You either got what it takes or not. You either have the “it” or not. But you have to be the “willing slave” of music, not “slave” of career.

[@belialah]

If I have heard this video 20 years ago, I would have studied something else. I beleived I was so special lol and my teachers made me feel that way as well...I feel scamed hahaha. I own a Master Degree on piano playing in a 3rd world country.

[@gailaustin5172]

If you have the gift, then yes. If not, then no.

[@timwhite7127]

I'm not even good enough to not make the neighborhood cats scream...

[@kf31paris]

but Martha Argerich is very spéciale...from age of 5

[@someguy5261]

Long time listener, first time caller; have you made a video (or any kind of text) discussing how you personally practice?

[@cedarvillemusic]

Sure. Whole courses on the subject: improvplanet.thinkific.com/bundles/piano-foundations

[@cesarbrizi]

When you mention pro musician you are specifically referring to classical musicians right? I mean I do understand that in jazz and pop music there are virtuosos that focus on technique but it's not the main point of the popular tradition, I was "classically" trained and I am transitioning from classical to jazz and plan to just play in lounges and bars, maybe if I'm lucky I can become a session musician or produce some music for people on the side but my objectives are not the concert hall. I guess the people that you mention who want to become "pro" wouldn't consider playing as a session musician or playing in bars as making it in music?

[@larryjohnny]

it’s sadly inconsistent work for me so far.. they want djs now instead of classical guitarists :(. But what I do is on a higher level than most.

[@JoeLinux2000]

It all depends on whether or not you can get hired as a musician. You have to be able to connect with the right people. You have to be able to put yourself out there. It worked for Yuja Wang, for Andreas Klein, not so much. Stay away from Public School Music. It's generally a dead end.

[@superblondeDotOrg]

Wearing the too-short-miniskirts is what actually worked for Yuja Wang, isn't that right. "Connect with the right people" turns into a double entendre. (Shouldnt the question be: why would any sane young player aspire to be forced into a performance position with such unstated yet obvious job requirements..)

[@Angelo-z2i]

Even as a dead end it will probably give you much more money than being a musician alone will

[@nancyfiskemusic]

Being a public school music teacher is doing good work for the good of all. You get to see a spark in some kid that no one else does. The child is not good in math, or reading, or whatever, but gets up on stage a sings/plays a solo and the rest of the staff can't believe you saw this magic in this child. Happens all the time. Public school music teachers work very hard under very difficult circumstances and situations, but effect every child in that school every week. The children need us and it is an honor and privilege to serve them.

[@dominiquehaughton1186]

Not to mention that you get to eat every day….

[@superblondeDotOrg]

I'm special. Got tons of metrics illustrating it. Maybe your perception is skewed because it seems that students who can't do anything, or won't apply effort to anything, overwhelmingly go into arts departments or are recommended into music studies.. especially vocalists. And then there are the students who started playing early, who actually have little talent or even knowledge at anything, yet have simply amassed a lot of time at an instrument, i.e. almost a full decade if starting at 9-10 years old, thus certain motor/memory skills have simply become correct habits. Of course these things don't propel anyone beyond a certain amateur level.

[@LAK_770]

g o o d f o r y o u

[@natekite7532]

Remember when he said that if you think you're special you'll become insufferable? The next time you start talking about all your accolades to someone, just watch their face and see how they respond. Don't be that guy...

[@alienthings555]

@@natekite7532 he is