Americans React: How Norway's Prisons Are Different From America's | Loners Podcast Episode 27

[@justmaria]

That prison you looked at is a high security prison in Norway. The humanity aspect is something that is reflected in all the Nordic countries in all aspects of life or situations and it's something I expect in our society. Not everything is perfect but I like to think that we see the whole human, if it's mental problems, job related, housing or education it's human rights not a privilege. Love and peace from Sweden.

[@Luredreier]

Actually, a friend of his commented in a reaction video to this clip. Turns out he's not in for murder, but for assault and bodily harm or something like that. Basically he seriously hurt someone, but they didn't actually die. But yes, this is a maximum security prison, used for murderers etc. Another factor is that the changes in policy hasn't been around for *that* many years, and it takes time to replace the old prisons. So while the principles are the same in *all* prisons here that doesn't mean that they're all this nice.

[@justmaria]

@@Luredreier ok thanks for the correction than. 🙂

[@Henrik_Holst]

@@Luredreier "Turns out he's not in for murder, but for assault and bodily harm or something like that." - He got a 20 year prison sentence in Brazil for attempted murder and was transferred to Norway after serving 5 years in Brazil.

[@Luredreier]

@@Henrik_Holst That sounds about right. My point is just that he didn't *actually* kill someone.

[@JB-lo8eg]

That would never work here in the United States. Our country is too big an just has to many crazy people and insane criminal groups. We have literally millions of gang members an criminals on our streets and significant sections of pretty much every decent size city are pretty violent and hostile places. I live in one of those neighborhoods an I have to pay attention to everything to just survive and I witness about a violent crime every week. Some guys I don’t even know drove by an shot at me for no reason a few weeks ago in my front yard an my best friend got robbed an shot in the head a block away from my house last year.

[@cellevangiel5973]

In Belgium we don't go as far Norway. But somebody with a short sentence, can keep his job. He will take his car in the morning, go do his job and come back to the prison in the evening. You don't want them to be jobless when they have done their time, so. But countries which have the dead penalty we coïncideer as 'uncivilized barbarians".

[@miafranlund6982]

Thing is...in all the Nordic countries, and a lot in Europe as such, we emphasise in mental health, education and rehabilitation. Most of us countries don't have life sentences, so we really need to make changes for the prisoners life, cause they ARE going to be released and might possibly be living among us as neighbours.

[@ravenfin1916]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZoGVaah4gpWlr7c kzbin.info/www/bejne/omaYZZ6MZpeKq9E

[@fortuna7469]

This kind of prison system works only if you have social security available for citizens already from birth. Humane interaction starts then. The prison is just a continuation of it for those who get into trouble. Thanks and love from Finland!

[@ahkkariq7406]

That is not right. In Norwegian prisons they have inmates from all over the world. In another documentary they say there are no differences between the inmates from Norway and other parts of the world.

[@elementalgolem5498]

@@ahkkariq7406 yeah but that society can actually help them after. If you made the Norwegian prison system the same in the US. Without any other changes. It wouldn't work. People would become homeless. Without opportunity and end up back in jail still even with the help and humanity. Because society is prepared to help them after prison in Norway. In the US society isn't prepared to help

[@ahkkariq7406]

@@elementalgolem5498 Are you saying giving people education does no good at all?

[@elementalgolem5498]

@@ahkkariq7406 no, I'm saying that in a society without social security. And a general against people that have been in the prison system. They struggle to get jobs because most people don't want to hire them, they can't vote because the system won't let them etc. This is not the case in Norway and what makes it possible to reintegrate them successfully

[@ahkkariq7406]

@@elementalgolem5498 Just to be clear - I am fully aware that the chance of success will be greater in Norway because we have a better welfare system. However, you are forgetting one thing, or maybe you are not aware of it. You write yourself: "If you made the Norwegian prison system the same in the US. Without any other changes. It wouldn't work." Well, the Norwegian system means that when you get an education in prison, it is not the prison that gives you proof that you have received an education. It is given by the local school/university, precisely to prevent you from being selected as a former inmate. Another thing we do in Norway is that no one is released onto the streets directly from a high-security prison. The last period as an inmate is spent in a low-security prison precisely to ease the transition to life outside. Besides, you are already used to getting up in the morning and grooming yourself before going to work. Many of those who receive an education in prison choose practical professions where they can practice without an employer. In Norway there are many more barriers if you want to start your own business than in America. You cannot therefore say that it will not be useful in the USA, because Norwegian prisons not only give you an education, they also give you the belief that you can make it. Yes, Norwegian prisoners get help with housing when they get out, but there are many Americans who have managed to get into work even though they have lived on the streets. You have to stop thinking there is no hope. It's when you take hope away that things go wrong. Norwegian prison changes you as a person. You are therefore a different person when you leave than you were when you entered. Humans have an inherent urge to create, and it is when we believe in change that change can happen. You don't believe in change, therefore you don't believe ex-prisoners in America can make it. It says as much about you as it does about the system. You don't believe in people.

[@dnocturn84]

Highly recommend TEDx Talks video on German prisons, called "Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America". Not on the same level as the Norwegian prison here, but with plenty of insights and more of an analysis, about what is going wrong in the US regarding this topic. It's a good one sharing many disturbing statistics.

[@dksilber9500]

Absolute agree. If you have interest in this topic - this video will be a good choice.

[@arnodobler1096]

absolutly kzbin.info/www/bejne/raW5Zpisa51kaas

[@imcrazedandconfused]

I agree this video is well worth watching. It also has a special american view on how Germany changed in general after WW2, which is rare to find. There is a lot of thought in this one, it is quite intense to watch, at least it was for me as a German.

[@emiliajojo5703]

really interesting video,thanks for recommending

[@jandmath]

The prison in the video, Halden prison, is a maximum security prison - and the inmates have commited all kinds of crimes, also murder. I’d also recommend a reaction on videos about the Bastøy prison.

[@Sabine00KH]

In Germany the death penalty is viewed to be against the human dignity. After WW2 the very beginning of the German constitution says: “ Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.”

[@Sabine00KH]

@Melody Projekt: That is really rude and ignorant to say- there is no need for that.

[@brucemc1581]

@@melodyprojekt Congrats!!! 🎉🎊🪅🪄You have my pity.

[@Humpelstilzchen]

​@@Sabine00KH Hi Sabine 🙂. Nice to meet you 😊

[@Sabine00KH]

@@Humpelstilzchen Hello Hannes- nice to meet you here 🙂

[@winterlinde5395]

You can’t say anything like this without alluring someone out of the woods to talk about painters and stuff that has nothing to do with the video 🙄🥱 Blöd🤷‍♀️. 🌸

[@hansomdal6231]

You mentioned discussing abortion and capital punishment. As an English teacher here in Norway we discuss those same topics in English class. We also discuss gun control in America and, students are shocked with the state of affairs(especially open and concealed carry and AR-15s)! For years I used to "give the same speech" every year about the US system of checks and balances, but after Trump's presidency I had to make a lot of changes. Also, the amount of conspiracy theories astonish our students. We don't have any dedicated far right wing media (or far left wing, for that matter) so nobody is fed lies about who won the election, politicians and actors eating babies, Jewish space lasers, etc. Seeing MTG, Boebert, Trump and others get away with lies and not subsequently getting slaughtered in the media is puzzling. There are always exceptions, but generally Norwegians will be much more open to limitations during a crisis than Americans. We get our vaccines, we wear masks, we trust in the government and our news sources, we agree that the weak in society should receive help, etc... The mentally ill receive help (although there are certain issues in Norway also, they nowhere near the problems on your side of the Atlantic). I also think it's important to mention that we are a far less Christian nation and priests generally receive a university education (about six years at university) where they l learn about all religions. Wealth wise the US is not too far behind Norway, it's how the money is distributed that is key. The Labour party here built a welfare state after WWII which takes care of its citizens. Even the Conservatives in Norway are pro universal health care. The Conservatives can in many cases be seen to be positioned to the left of your Democratic party! In the US it's everyone for themselves and, strangely, you keep giving the rich tax breaks, as if that would solve anything. Trickle down economics was never a thing and the mention of it and tax breaks for rich people started the downfall of Liz Truss in the UK. Keep up the good work, guys!

[@Gran_Torino]

Great summary, as a Norwegian I agree totally with what you’re saying

[@lillm6874]

Well said 👍

[@emiliajojo5703]

Pretty much the same in Germany, stay healthy!

[@johantolli372]

I think one of the US's issues is an unwillingness to learn from past tragedies and misstakes. Norway completely reformed and reworked its prison system following riots and two correctional officers deaths. Australia almost completely banned firearms after a mass shooting in the 90's. Most countries seems to learn more and take proactive steps to prevent similar tragedies happening again. They tackle core issues at its roots and push through legislation on large national scales to improve basic standards for everyone. I rarely see such massive changes from the US

[@Gazer75]

Problem in the US is the gun lovers don't want to talk about the fact that the 2nd amendment was written in a time where it took 30-60 seconds to reload a musket by a trained person.

[@mremtb7689]

@Michael Rogers can you site any references showing there are more guns now?

[@missleni9122]

Corruption! Guns are a huge business, and companies like the NRA pay politicians not to mess with the current laws. Same with prisons. Since it's a business, the wealthy prison owners pay so that they can fill up their prisons full. That way they get more money from the state, since it's often paid on a per head basis. In addition, they have more people to exploit..

[@Mrsuperdestroyer]

It is positive though that it is starting to change on some smaller scale at least. Just this video in itself is proof of that, those people are there to learn and take back to the US, and they are not just some activists but high ranking in the system in the US. Some prisons has actually started implementing this strategy already and the violence in that prison decrease a shitton from what they saw earlier. Both against the officers and between inmates. Sadly the pandemic caused some of the programs to halt but should hopefully be up again now.

[@mr.nobody1081]

@@Gazer75 gross oversimplification, you cant make 50 states (read countries) agree on the same rules, you guys are too big and have too diverse a population to reach internal agreement, realize your geographical strength is also your weakness and find a solution, and no i dont think you guys having a civil war over "cultural issues" is a good idea, clean up your act and figure something out because you guys are insanely wellarmed and we dont want your firearms flooding the rest of us when you break down, thank you.

[@s10anify]

i'm from norway and have been to prison X amount of times(sorry about the english). This is one of the high security prisons. Norway dont have death penelty now even life in prison. Longest prison sentence is 16 years followed by maybe some psychiatric treatment depending on your rehabilitation report from your correction officer. The last time i was in prison(2015). Inmates recived about 10US dollars a day. I would say the biggest problem in the norwegian justice system is the time it takes from "I got caught" to going to court and getting sentenced.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

In the beginning of the video it is stated that Halden prison is a maximum security prison. So, it is the most strict prison in Norway, I think. As for death penalty, that is forbidden in the European Union. So no EU country has the death penalty, even in times of war. Even life sentences are only allowed if after 20 years a reevaluation takes place of the sentence. My country (the Netherlands) was very unwilling to do that, but was forced to by EU courts. All northwestern European countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Switzerland) have the same kind of philosophy on prisons, although the scandinavian countries take it the furthest.

[@dksilber9500]

@@c_n_b Wrong. Prison is never a happy life. And after which time whatsoever - one day a murderer will be again part of the society. If you don't work WITH him but AGAINST him, society has a real problem. Treating people bad in prison helps nobody: neither the victim, nor the family of the victim.

[@Gazer75]

A result of this exchange is the "Little Scandinavia" prison test project at SCI Chester, PA. There are some videos about it. It got quite delayed due to the pandemic.

[@throfur3489]

Those videos are great.

[@UltraCasualPenguin]

Good that US starts to test other systems. Though there will still be prisoners who just can't be connected back to society, people who are too far gone (worst of the worst murderers for example).

[@imcrazedandconfused]

A general word about the videos on your channel, that I always forget to write: It is very inspiring watching your conversations and how you are trying to get a better picture of how things could be in a more ideal world. IMO you belong to a new generation of young americans who understand, that the way it is has to be changed. You take inspiration from other countries' experiences and try to make sense and relate the information to your own situation. Very refreshing and appreciated. Please continue this series.

[@0020050479]

3-year education included one year paid work training in a prison facility. 40-45k USD starting salary. Norway do not charge students tuition fees (including foreigners).

[@Station-Network]

To become a security officer in Germany you must have at least 10 months of training with an exam. This means that the normal security officer has more training than a police officer in the USA. To become a Correction Officer you even have to complete a 3 year training with a state examination. In Europe there is no death penalty.

[@sailiealquadacil1284]

I think Belarus still has the death penalty.

[@fisheye375]

If you treat somebody like an animal, he becomes eventually one. And then you want him to be as normal as possible in a world constantly evolving….it’s weird!! He will be back to his def adult. What have been taught to him..being an animal.

[@imcrazedandconfused]

In the beginning of the video you said "we are treating them like slaves". This is shockingly accurate. The system in the US is not about resocialization, like most of the European systems and esp. the nordic systems are, but it has one of the most de-humanizing and stigmatizing principles. Highest incarceration rates, a justice systems that forces poor people to pled themselves guilty to hope for mild punishment, because they can not afford a lawyer, to go to prison because they can not afford paying bills for wrong parking etc., extremely high chances to land up in prison again. Resocializing is actively made near impossible if the first thing you do is taking away the right to vote from inmates forever - it is taking away the most basic right of a citizen of any system that calls itself a democracy. Public shaming like police photos that everyone can look up in the internet, the rules for sex offenders (and this can be for the most ridiculous laws in this fields or totally medievil moral delicts) are just unbelievable (don't know if it is similar in all states, though). The rules make it as hard as possible to get back to a half way normal life. And esp., as you mentioned, it is a business with people who are only "paid" barely what they need to survive. I once read that a Sheriff from Texas said, he gives the inmates food from the trash cans of grocery stores, because that is all they deserve. Really all red flags are up, that this system is a form of slavery, the extremely high re-incarceration rate, that is high on purpose, because better systems exist, and last but not least, and most shocking, the obvious systemic racism, that starts with the economic disadvantages of people of color that still have their roots in slavery, and ends with injustice with much more incarcerations for the same crimes. The similarities are so obvious that I could hardly understand, that people can still deny it. Which might be another form of racism, probably, the denial of racism as a whole. Btw, THIS is something not exclusive to the US, in the UK the denial of systemic racism is also insanely high. (You might watch the videos of the Blue Eyed experiments / workshops of Jane Elliott, that try to give people an immediate idea of what kind of everyday racism is around them. The UK episode left me totally puzzled because there, even educated people totally denied the existence of something that literally exists everywhere in the world...) PS: Germany has no Death Penalty. AFAIK no country in Central Europe has it, the last was France in the 1960s. I am not sure about whole Europe. But it is not used, if it exists anywhere in Europe.

[@OblivionGate]

UK prison racism is nowhere near what you make out and the Blue Eyed experiment was a propaganda tool. Comparing US prisons and UK prisons is like chalk and cheese. The UK is Not a racist country and it is against the law to be racist towards someone. You also don't seem to understand that US prisons are a business. Its not that prisoners don't get paid very well its that they actually want people to go back to prison as it makes more money for the prison, each prisoner makes a certain amount of money for the prison if they are put in prison and every time they return. Just to reiterate, UK prisons are absolutely nothing like prisons in the US. Have you ever been to prison in the UK?? I have and you would not get away with racism in a UK prison nowadays. You can judge a society by the state of its prisons and the UK prison system is not racist.

[@wessexdruid7598]

In the 'for profit' US System they are assets to be taken and sweated.

[@Luredreier]

Russia still has death penalty on the books but haven't used it officially in ages. Belarus still practice the death penalty. That's it within Europe.

[@imcrazedandconfused]

@@Luredreier You are right, Belarus still practices Death Penalty and is pretty alone with this, seemingly in Ukraine the last practice was in the 90s, all others stopped this much earlier. So the consense in Europe is pretty clear against death penalty. As it seems, Belarus just changed the laws to the worse, no matter that the other European countries already sanctioned it for the anachronistic use of this penalty.

[@Geralt_harvey3784]

@@Luredreier Key word "officially". The Russian government (and one can't even call it a government, its just a dictatorship) executes numerous people every year behind closed doors, notably political rivals, people of the LGBT community (simply for existing), people who speak out against corruption, etc. I pray that more and more Russian citizens rise up and finally kill the bald ba*****.

[@arnodobler1096]

The degree of civilization of a society can be judged by the condition of its prisoners. Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky (1821 - 1881)

[@jimmyandersson5189]

About the mental health issues here in Scandinavia: We do look upon it as an important issue and it is talked about a lot. However...We also have a serious staffing problem in which we lack trained personal in all our healthcare. Specially so in the mental health part. This ofcourse creates longer time till you get in contact with the care you need. This is a result of an ageing populace and a low birthrate. Generally speaking, children here have a better acces to mental healthcare then adults through their schools. About death penalty: Scandinavia does not have deathpenalty. I would say most people here would think it an abhorrent thought that the state acctually would have the right to kill people. If something were to happend to my wife, I would be very eager to create my own deathpenalty for the criminal...and thats why I hope my state would stop me. The state in scandinavia is there for when we as citizens no longer can be expected to act rationally or when descisions are to complex to make for a singel citizen.

[@chwilhogyn]

When Norway changed its prison system in the 90's by 2010, Norway had closed 200 prisons!

[@Hosigie]

I'm Croatian and we don't have death penalty here, it's outlawed in the constitution. We also had those debates in my Ethics class in high school, about death penalty, abortion, euthanasia etc. My personal stance on death penalty is that life imprisonment is a bigger punishment than death penalty. If someone can't be put among people in any way, because they're a danger to them, then they should be kept away from society, but in humane conditions.

[@PaiMei667]

In Germany they try to do the same check out the video: "The German prison program that inspired Connecticut"

[@loners4life]

We will check this out! Thanks for the recommendation ✌️

[@unclemick577]

How about out this? Prisoners In Finland Live In Open Prisons Where They Learn Tech Skills | On The Ground. You will be surprised.

[@pigedehekkan]

Homeless people in Norway are given the opportunity for a place to live and food, so it's not necessary to go to jail to keep warm like you say you do in USA. Inmates get the equivalent of around 7US$ each day to spend as they want, or not spend and save it for when they get released. In Norway the highest sentence someone can get is 21 years which is called life. There is a possibility for early release after 14 years depending on many circumstances. It is also possible to extend the sentence 5 year at a time and in theory could be a lifesentence. The longest sentence I know of is a man currently sentencing 22 years. About 15 people has gotten 21years sentence in the last 20 years.

[@loners4life]

Wow! Thanks so much for the information. This is very interesting to hear 👍🏻

[@Humpelstilzchen]

16:00 That's the point. Prison is always much more worse than the outside world TO that specific countrys conditions. For example social security networks that allow every homeless person to eat 3 warm meals a day plus shelter for the night mandatory by the gouvernment. In Germany nobody have to be homeless because everybody have the right to a roof over his head still some people decide to live on the streets

[@lennert1nevejans]

Because you asked... in Belgium there is no death penalty since 1996. Euthanasia is legal since 2002 and abortion has been legal since 1990

[@auntclaudia]

In the Netherland no death penalty since 1983, but the last execution was in 1952 (war crimes). Euthanasia is legal since 2002. And abortion is legal since 1984. Dutch prison systems are organized around central tenets of resocialization and rehabilitation.

[@lennert1nevejans]

@@auntclaudia In Belgium the last execution also was a lot earlier than the law changing. In 1950 for war crimes as well.

[@terjebroen5498]

I from Norway, this is the answer to what they get paid. The prison officer training is paid, which means that an aspirant in prison officer training is employed in the correctional service in accordance with the State Employees Act (State Employees Act). An average aspirant's salary is in salary step 23 (State salary table), and an average gross annual salary is just over NOK. NOK 300,000 (approximately to USD 30.000). Supplements are paid for inconvenient working hours (rotation) in semesters 2 and 3. For most people, this corresponds to approx. NOK NOK 10-15,000 per year. The salary for the individual aspirant is calculated by seniority in accordance with The State's personnel handbook after the start in the first semester, and which salary step the individual aspirant is placed in is calculated based on earned seniority (work experience). Employment certificates from previous employers must have the employment percentage or the number of hours per week or month actually performed. The previous employer's signature and stamp must also be affixed to the certificates. Applicants for the prison officer training do not qualify for student loans from Lånekassen as the study is paid. The aspirants are to be regarded as employees and a student certificate is not issued, but a service certificate. What do you earn as a prison officer? - As a newly trained prison officer, you can expect to earn NOK 400,000 - 450,000 (approximately to USD 40.000-45.000)this includes the allowance you get for working weekends, evenings, nights and public holidays.

[@Fyrwin]

In Germany you can not be punished if you break out off jail, because its considered a human instinct to be free. If you get caugth, you go back in jail. If you harm somesone or destroy something, you get a penalty for that. btw. love U 2

[@dachecker79]

I´m a new subscriber, watched 3 Video´s so far, greetings from Austria.

[@KjartanAndersen]

Start salary for a prison guard (fengselsbetjent) in Norway is approx $45 000 a year. and the pay starts as soon as you are accepted and starts your 2 years of education.

[@solva5085]

Beginning salary is about 40 000 - 45 000 us dollars a year for a CO and for the ones who are in prison it`s almost 8.00 us dollars a day. Really like your video, love from Norway. We don`t have death penalty, maximum years are 21 years prison .... but there are a exception, it`s called prison - detention (with the detention part they might never get out).

[@giniinthebottle5777]

my typical breakfast : workdays - rye bread, cold cuts, cheese, yogurt; weekend - roll with jam, fried egg; black coffee

[@Henoik]

So, in Norway, inmates don't just get paid for the work they do. Inmates are paid a daily "wage" just to be in prison - they don't really have to do anything. Now, it's not much, but it's just enough so that they can get commissary items etc.

[@tschaytschay4555]

I actually don't get the American way of thinking, that a murderer is always super dangerous for everyone. Most murderers aren't serial killers who would just kill out of pleasure or something. In every video of this topic every American is always so concerned about murderers though most murders are specificially targeted at a specific person which the murderer has big negative emotions towards to and not some random guy/ girl in the street. In such prisons prisoners learn how to find alternative ways to deal with such emotions and problems than getting violent and also they can learn new skills to have better oportunities and a way out of criminal life. Not every murder is a brainless killing machine.

[@Gazer75]

As long as US prisons are run as a business with profit in mind there is no reason for them to rehabilitate. The more people they have incarcerated the more money they make. The prisons in Norway are actually a pretty significant expense, but its considered as cheap if they can get people back into society. Its cheaper if they go back out and get a job and pay their taxes instead of the system having to spend money on them constantly. A person that keep getting arrested and going through court and and serving prison sentences will cost the country a s whole a lot more in the long run.

[@sulliken77]

Hi guys, Norway's calling :-) I've been locked up myself for like 17 years ago fo some minor stuff (speeding and crashing. Not DUI). Spent 2 weeks behind bars. In a minimun security facility. It isn't much, but got a taste of beeing locked up. I had my own clothes, brought with me a lot of books. The punishment is to be robbed of your normal life, and to have no saying in how your day goes. The punishment is get your freedom stripped away. That's enough. In US prisons, my impression is that humiliation and oppression is the standard way to handle prisoners. I have seen a few of those Prison Documntary series from the US (Like "Hard Time", and such). How on earth will a person released from that system function in a normal life after serving time? Death penalty got kicked out of the laws after WW2. The max prison penalty here in Norway is 21 years. BUT. There is a but here. If the crime is seriosly gruesome (like the July 11 2011-terrorist. Google it) you dont get a "prison sentence", but a "Detention Sentence". And a Detention sentence can in principle go on for ever. Breivik, the July 11-terrorist got sentenced to 21 years Detention, with the least amount of 10 years. But the prisoner get evaluated every 10 years or so, and even after 21 years, he can still be deemed as to dangerous to go free, and the sentence will be prolonged. He has tried several times to lift the detention sentece, but the plea get dismissed every single time. That a**hole will rot in jail until he dies. Because he hasn't changed a bit.

[@abstellgleis2474]

Keep up your reactions. i love these! it's so refreshing seeing you guys talking about things outside the us bubble :)

[@kenavr]

Capital punishment is banned in almost all European countries (Belarus still has it and Russia seems to have abolished it in practice). Though I have to say, looking through the years of when it was abolished in each country, some of them are shockingly recent. Ignoring the fact that it is very very hard to be certain someone committed a crime that is "worth" of the death penalty, I don't believe the state should be in the business of executing its own citizens, so yes, I am definitely against capital punishment.

[@magdalenabozyk1798]

They might have been abolished legally fairly recently, but in practice could have been much longer.

[@kenavr]

@@magdalenabozyk1798 of course, but Wikipedia also has the data for "last execution" and even though that looks better there are quite a lot of countries doing it in the 80s and 90s.Anyway, I am not sure why I was surprised by that, the US still has it and there are also quite some countries in Europe that have stopped that practice in the 18 or early 19 hundreds.

[@paul1979uk2000]

I think it's been banned in the EU for decades, in fact, if I recall, when the UK joined the EEC in the 70's, they had to ban capital punishment before they could join.

[@TomKirkemo-l5c]

I actually had an inmate, he had like 45 sentences. And served in the same prison. He actually asked the prison if he could have a camper outside and come inside for work during the day. He didn't really function on the outside. And this is true!!

[@garethgriffiths1674]

By the way, everyone of the Norwegians in the video, including the prisoners, spoke English for the purpose of the video and communicating with their US visitors.

[@TomKirkemo-l5c]

Prisoners get paid about 6 USD a day here in Norway. With our prices that's like a happy meal at mcDonalds a day. Not that they could ever go there. But it is also 1/3 of a pack of cigaretts if you are a smoker.

[@Luredreier]

32:31 No, there isn't any crimes that's like "come-on" *Everyone* are humans, regardless of what they've done.

[@michinwaygook3684]

I lived there for two years as a child and my best friend is Norwegian; just to give some perspective on where my knowledge is coming from. There is a strong connection between mental health services and the Norwegian justice system. When you have finished serving your sentence in Norway it does not necessarily mean you will be released back into the public. They hold a hearing and if it is determined you are still a threat to the public you remain in prison till your next hearing. Unlike in many U.S. states their parole boards aren't complete garbage. Even outside of the justice system Norway for instance has very strong child protective services, some people might argue to strong. Very protective of their children. Also my other Norwegian friend was having a hard time and needed rehab - the Norwegian gov't paid for his rehab. Mental health is not stigmatized there like it is in the U.S.

[@ssirfbrorsan]

RELAX! It is about how we treat each other and how we think about each other and what we expect from each other!

[@MartinJohansson-nn5dv]

Prison Project: Little Scandinavia is a nice tv serie in 3 parts where you can follow staff from a US prison try to implement the Scandinavian system in the US.

[@RonnyWilhelmsen1001]

On mental health, remember that most nations in the world have health care is a cost we all share. This is also true in Norway. The salary for a corrections officer is consistently on the average, about $53000. Prisoners if they work (usually 8-15) gets paid a daily allowance. They will get paid around $200 a month. "Capital" punishment is 21 in Norway.

[@christinepreston8642]

I like your chat and long intros! Maybe I'm just nosy, but hearing about your lives informs me and gives perspective to your reactions. There is a statue called The Big Graph in the Eastern State Penitentiary, Philadelphia, that shows incarceration figures comparing countries with the death penalty against those without. Its not a deterrent!! People have long argued what is sufficient punishment, but imo rehabilitation is better for everyone rather than degradation.

[@tubekulose]

A typical breakfast here in Vienna would be a Melange coffee, a soft boiled egg (three to five minutes), some sliced ham and cheese, and a Kaisersemmel (Emperor roll) with butter and jam.

[@lifeinsurance666]

This is the highest security prison in Norway I know this is the best way to do it I'm from Norway I think they make like 31/32 $

[@laur4a768]

5:00 it reduces your stress if you eat 1 hour after waking up. My breakfast often if toast creme fraiche and some herbs, it doesn't need to be heavy... sometimes I eat nuts and dry fruits or sardines, whatever body needs at the time

[@rockon4853]

Here in Norway, mental health is taken seriously, you get the help you need. Norway also has several institutions where you can receive treatment over either a short period or a slightly longer period. But you have to go by your regular doctor to get a place if needed, and you pay nothing for the stay.

[@barrymiller3385]

From Wikipedia: - Most nations, including almost all developed countries, have abolished capital punishment either in law or in practice; notable exceptions are the United States, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea. Additionally, capital punishment is also carried out in China, India, and most Islamic states.

[@23smguld]

Yes, here in Sweden or Scandinavia have almost the same quality of imprisonment, Good food, employment, and get paid for working, store we can shop in, our families get to sleep over, go to school, etc.

[@EessaTube]

I used to teach Forensic Psychology and Criminology. There is a ton of evidence supporting the Nordic model. Vast amounts of verified and peer reviewed research shows that preparing prisoners for a return to outside life by keeping some level of normality, teaching them skills required in the workplace, finding them work before they leave prison and finding them housing when they leave prison, all significantly reduces recidivism [re-offending]. Research also shows that traditional prison systems, such as those in the US and UK, where punishment takes precedence over rehabilitation, fail to reduce re-offending.

[@skimyni1617]

he is in for murder, this is max secure prison, not a last stage prison you serv all the sentence there. a last stage prison is bastøy prison in Norway

[@TheAccidentalViking]

Someone wrote that it wasn't murder but grievous bodily harm. He nearly killed someone.

[@ziglaya4293]

The prison system in the US is for profit. The count on people reoffending therefore rehabilitation will never be the ultimate goal

[@tosa2522]

There is another interesting video on the subject. A TED Talk with Jeff Rosen titled "Germany: Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America". PS: The death penalty is prohibited under the German Constitution.

[@tubekulose]

A typical breakfast here in Vienna would be a Melange coffee, a soft boiled egg (three to five minutes), some sliced ham and cheese, and a Kaisersemmel (Emperor roll) with butter and jam... 25:09 ... and at least one to three cigarettes are mandatory as well. 😊

[@HH-hd7nd]

9:49 Not only activists but also correction officers. The presentation hold there was actually not the only one of that kind - there's another video where the same Norwegian corrections officer holds a presentation like this specifically for US corrections officers - he was actually in the USA that time. In contrast to the prison system in Norway (and in fact most of Europe which has a similar approach as Norway) the US prison system is designed in a way to punish and humiliaty the inmates as much as possible. The result is that the US prisons are actually giant factories to produce as many hardened criminals as possible. To make matters worse people who have been released from prison in the USA are deliberately kept out of jobs (employers can for example check the criminal records - it alls out in the open). This leads to many employers simply not employing people with a criminal record at all and many of those exploit and abuse the former prisoner super hard because they can't fight back - if they get fired no one else will employ them. The consequence of that is that many former prisoners turn to crime again just out of necessity - they are left with only two choices: starve and die or turn back to crime. This is one of the main reasons why the USA have such high recidivism rates (76 % of former inmates are rearested within 5 years; 97 % are rearested within 20 years). 14:08 Yes they do (and not just in Norway). 17:40 In the USA training of correctional officers is usually 6-12 weeks, and the training is almost exclusively focused on hand-to-hand combat and shooting drills. They receive next to no deescalation training - quite the contrary in many cases. 24:35 The insanity about that reaction is that Mariuhana is actually not illegal anymore in many states which means that these people are in prison for something that is not a crime. The Death penalty still exists and is enforced in 56 countries, however some of them have not executed people for many years (in Zimbabwe the last execution was in 2003 for example). In another 36 countries the death penalty still exists in theory but is abolished in pratice. This means that 92 out of 214 countries still have the death penalty. In Europe the only countries where death penalties are still legal are Belarus and Russia. In Norway specifically the longest prison sentence is 21 years no matter the crime (Anders Breivig, a neonazi domestic terrorist who killed 77 people in a bombing and mass shooting in 2011, most of them children, was sentenced to 21 years). However if the correctional officers think that the person has not been rehabilitated the sentence can be increases in 5-year steps (which will almost certainly be the case with Breivig who to this day not only doesn't show any remorse, he's actiually doubling down on his racist hate views). 28:15 Halden Prison is a maximum security prison and houses some of the most dangerous criminals of Norway: murderers, rapists, people with a background in organized crime. If you want to see a low security prison search for Bastoy Prison

[@tomastorheim7283]

The challenge for the US, is that you, as a society, are not ready for treating prisoners in the manner that you saw there, you gave an excellent example of that yourself, namely in the way you started to discuss who deserves to be treated like that, and who does not. In a prison system based on rehabilitation, as the ones in the Nordics, you cannot divide prisoners between worthy and not worthy. You either treat everyone the same, or you fail. The only difference in treatment should be in what type of prison they serve their time in (High Security, Medium Security, Low Security and Open). Halden is an example of a High Security prison. Bastøy is an example of an Open one. However, in a prison system based on punishment, as the one in the US, that divide is logical. And that mentality is so deeply rooted in US society, that even those who think that there is something wrong with the system, and that there is a need to turn to rehabilitation, cannot see why dividing prisoners like that is an anathema. The removal of freedom is the punishment, prison is there to facilitate that exact punishment, it is not the job of prison to either expand it, nor limit it, only the courts can do that. I've always been fascinated by the US citizens claim to value freedom above all else, yet removing said freedom is not enough punishment, which only points to that of freedom not being valued anything near what is claimed. Having said that, I recommend you take a look at these links, as they are a bit more about the differences, and how US correctional officers react to it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpeopK1uZpeEZ6s kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJLYl3prj5qbqNE kzbin.info/www/bejne/ap-WiWZtralomsU It is only the first 18 minutes that are relevant here, the rest is of a panel discussion in Alaska if I understood it correctly, concerning Alaska specifically. This last one might get you two a little bit of hope :)

[@EleonoreWang]

I know that one person was in prison for robbery (quite a large one many years ago) - he is now working as a baker and has his own bakery. We do not have death sentence here. Last death sentence was after the World War 2. Mind you the one that killed a lot of people back in 2011 has a sentence with security - I do not think he will be let out.

[@almostyummymummy]

NZ needs this, too. Our recidivism rate is far too high, for one thing. 2021 it was about 50% return to prison within two years of release. Plus 212 incarcerated / 100,000 people in a population of about 5 million. I'd very much like to see the improvement in our nation's society this system would bring about.

[@helenagreenwood2305]

Loss of freedom by being in prison is the punishment - prisoners should be treated like humans while they're in there - and education and rehabilitation is key to being a better person on release - USA seems to be a very vengeful society regarding prison sentences wanting people to die in there - children receiving whole life sentences too - it's mind boggling This video reminds me of the one which showed police officers from other countries reacting to American policing - the obvious lack of training and escalating situations instead of de-escalation

[@rockon4853]

The salary is 40 000 - 45 000 dollars at year. The education is two years. The education is paid, but one is obliged to serve one year at one or more prisons.

[@randihelenehansen4169]

To be a police in Norway you need to have batchler . It take 3 YEAR.

[@boingflip5439]

Watching you is like hanging out with friends.

[@Merigold83]

I have an idea for your hopefully upcoming cooking related video(s): Lynda tries to teach Brian the wonderful art of baking and cooking. Lynda is the teacher in the background and is completely hands-off, and Brian does all the (hard?) work in the 'Frontline'.

[@LineDahl-j1y]

This is the highest security prison in Norway! This is where the killers go! Those with lesser crimes do not need this security around them!

[@timothyyeo7130]

Canada did away with the death penalty back in the 60s. With that in mind, we will not expedite any persons charged or convicted of a capital offence to any country with the death penalty unless we are assured they will not receive the death penalty.

[@GaryBetterton]

My son has been incarcerated for 13 years in Arizona. He has been treated as an animal. The Justice system in America is in human. This country allows people to make others suffer for decades. The Golden Rule is thrown aside. It is something we say we believe but the truth is that judges, lawyers, cops and prison guards will have a job as long as crime exists in America.

[@ratflail215]

Finland. Porridge is a common breakfast food here. I personally eat very little if anything in the morning because I'm never hungry after just waking up. I might have a cup of tea and some fruit.

[@busylivingnotdying]

About CO training: Often, in the US, corrections and police recruitment come from the military. There is "training," but it is mostly "containment training," meaning learning how to keep them from rioting. In Norway, we are striving to make training comprehensive and focused on how to tease out the inmates' humanity and their dignity (from the Christie school of Criminology). Therefore we want to provide as much higher education as possible for the CO's. And we try and focus on "weeding out" the tough guys, among the CO-candidates, who feel they have something to prove .. People like that have no business being in that kind of treatment facility ..

[@meakimon]

The whole thing about the F in fengsel (prison) not being capitalized, but Halden (a place) being capitalized, yeah that's normal. We also don't capitalize our months or days either. ^^ Also, Kriminalomsorgen, is made of two words, kriminal, which you can guess, and omsorgen, which means to care for. Smack em together and you got criminalcarecenter or something.

[@karriqueen]

Yes, mental health in prisons here is a big thing. They get a therapist. Also the guard help them alot. They can get an education. They can lern actuall trades. Like lern to be a car mekanick, carpentey. So when they come out their head is in good shape and they have goten a degree and/or lerned a trade so they can get a job. They do get help with housing and money when they come out too. They don’t just get put on the street and like good luck too you. It really get set up for them here so they have a chanse of a life without crime.

[@comebackdk]

The prison in the video, Halden prison, is a maximum security prison - and the inmate in the video was in for murder.

[@matildendron856]

I'm from Sweden and the Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Sweden) have a pretty similair view of the world in most cases. We don't have death penalty and most people here are strongly against it, though, if you start discussing pedophiles or animal abusers some people might say they think they should have their life taken away, but I think that is mostly in the heat of the moment. A funny thing is that we (I think espacially Sweden?) have some of the most strict drug laws in the world and a lot of people here REALLY view mariujana the same way as heroin, and it is not allowed even for medical use. I think that is pretty surprising since we are a progressive country in many other aspects.

[@jadu79]

You should watch videos from Norwegian prisons like Batoy and Halden here are some videos that you would probably enjoy kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4quh3utZrWJd6c and if you want a bit about the prison in the Nordics, you have a video here with the prison in Finland, Sweden and Norway with a prison director from the USA visiting kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpeopK1uZpeEZ6s

[@jadu79]

that is a high security prison so they are murderers and all the worst in that prison so check out the first link I just wrote but also the second link and that channel has more good videos in "The Norden"

[@trondhalvorsen3331]

These prisons will operate anywhere there are no privately owned prisons. As you said in America prisons are a business , and then you want people to come and be in your prison so you can earn as much as possible. In Norway, the prisons are owned by the state and must be/can be run in this way. We also have stricter and more secure prisons, but these are run on the same principle. Love from Norway

[@dalitrh]

That's ONE high security prison in Norway. I was at another prison, and there it was 23 hours 45 min in the cell every single day. Except library day, then we got to go to the next building 😅

[@yasminesteinbauer8565]

Well, in the EU there is no death penalty and it is considered a violation of human rights. (This is also my personal view.) A country that still has the death penalty could not even become a member of the EU. Also, prisoners will not be extradited to other countries (e.g. the USA) if they would face the death penalty there.

[@jrgenjohansen2799]

You asked about the death penalty. In Norway we completely abolished the death penalty in 1979. The last execution was done in 1948, as a direct response to Norwegians helping the Germans during the second world war. The executed were among the Norwegian traitors, including Vidkun Quisling, the leader of the Pro-Nazi Party of Norway, NS. He commited high treason and tried to abolish the government that the people of Norway had chosen through a democratic process. Although some Norwegians disputed this choice (the death penalty - by firing squad at the time), 5 years of foreign occupation made it make sense for most Norwegians.

[@sebastianflesjandersen939]

He did murder someone in Brazil. There's no death penalty in Norway and the maximum sentence is 21 years, although some people are under what's called "forvaringsdom" meaning they can hold you for a longer time if you're deemed dangerous to society

[@rytterl]

We don't have the death penalty here in Norway. The longest penalty you can get here is 21 years. If you're really screwed up and can't get rehabilitated, you'll get five more years, after that, if you're still not rehabilitatated, another five. And so on and so on. Life in prison in Norway is 21 years at MAX. Rehabilitation starts at day 1. They're not seen as bad people, just poeple who made a mistake. Even killers. Americans seems very vengeful. And some people might be here in Norway. But you can't deny that this works.

[@RogerHJorg]

There is no death penalty anymore in Europe (exception: Belarus). The last country to abolish the death penalty was Fürstentum Liechtentein (1989) - although the last execution in that country happened in 1785.

[@YekouriGaming]

The death penalty is abolished in all of Europe, of the Western World only the US has the death penalty. The death penalty is bordering the limits of the European Court of Human Rights in todays age. A life sentence in the Nordic countries is basically at most 16 years , as that is when you get your entire case evaluated again and released on parole. You can get into indefinite detection at a psychiatric institution if you do something because of mental illness, but in all other cases so far, regular criminals gets released within 16 no matter what they have done.

[@sielukettu]

Dhamma brothers is also awesome prison documentary about the power of meditation in US prison.

[@salmansengul]

24:16 He said it! Profits Profits Profits! The only thing people in America seem fo care about!

[@DMSG1981]

Well, I'm pretty sure the guy did murder someone or something similar, cause Halden is a maximum security prison. That must've gone straight over your head, cause it doesn't look it.

[@loners4life]

We are not going to lie. That did go right over our heads! That’s incredible the reform that man has had. Amazing what a system of humanity can do for people. Thanks for your comment! 👍🏻

[@Nipponing]

@@loners4life Yeah it's right at the start of the video.

[@fikaa2388]

@@loners4life Please watch the documentary made by Michael Moore about Norwegian prisons! That will make things even clearer for you! La Roux tv documentary World's Most Luxurious prisons is also an informative and interesting documentary!

[@TomKirkemo-l5c]

And the key thing....yes, the inmates have a key to their cell....one, you see that there are TWO locks on the door. They don't have the other key. ;)

[@SarahBuhrmanKalisara]

Years ago, a few of my friends became correctional officers for a state facility. NO prior experience, training or education. MAYBE a full month of training, mostly in how to defend themselves and "take down" inmates. US prisons are just an extention of the police forces. Horrific, with maybe a few people trying to do it right.

[@sielukettu]

In other countries police also go through a long education.

[@ssirfbrorsan]

SO! Some say - "better to become a criminal"....Then be one. Others realize that everyday life is pretty good. The point is that you have to be given the opportunity to choose! Not to be judged as a human being.

[@jimmyincredible3141]

As you asked for opinions in the death penalty: The more you read on the topic, the more death penalty becomes a huge set of paradoxes. So for example from what I read about criminal psychology most really violent crimes where people try to kill each other happen in the heat of the moment without anyone considering the consequences. And if noone considers the consequences severe punishment obviously won't stop them - crimes where people plan, and think about the risks could probably be avoided by the death penalty, but if it was introduced there, you'ld end up in the absurd situation where its actually becoming an incentive to kill victims and witnesses to avoid capture and thereby penalty. The imho only thing the death penalty can logically achieve is a recidivism rate of zero - so it makes sense in a very small set of circumstances which are probably most likely to be found in very poor countries or extreme situations like war zones where ie a working prison system simply doesn't exist. Btw. if you are looking for a video like you described, where they don't confront activists, but people with real pro-US-circumstances-opinions on that topic, and one or two related ones, you might want to check out "The Norden - Nordic Prisons" on YT - and the channel "John Stark" in general...

[@gmacka6333]

One of the main reasons a prison like that wouldnt work in America is due to the extreme wealth gaps within the US. The extreme poverty people face in certain areas, areas where the government has basically given up on citizens, as well as in other areas where people just can't afford to live, life in a prison like this would be a major benefit and a better way of life. Therefore people may just want to be incarcerated rather than live the life they're forced to live on the outside

[@omega1231]

The reason the f isn't capitalized is because the name of the city it's in is "Halden" and what it is is a "fengsel" we capitalize names, not nouns. "Halden Fengsel" just looks weird lol Also, about our "ability to view people as humans" you have to consider the fact that there are as many people in New York as there are in Sweden, Denmark and Norway combined (minus a million, but point still stands). When you don't have many people, you are kinda forced to view them as more than just an asset, because we can't really afford to lose the human capital in the long run. Ironically the high security prisons are much better than jail or minimum security, just because people in high security prisons have much longer sentences, so they need more normality basically. Oh yeah, and people in minimum security often also get to work outside of the prison during daytime and then have to report back to prison at a given time. I went to a restaurateur school and had 3 classmates that were in the open prison system, for drugs or theft, so they would be in school taking classes and then they would go back to prison afterward - genuinly nice people though, one of them kept talking about the first thing he was doing when he got out was go to England and watch Manchester United play lol Also, no we haven't had the death penalty since WW2, and that was only for treason not murderers, so it was more in regards to the military than the civilian populace.

[@patrikcederkvarn7910]

Speaking about breakfast, here is a video that talks about how US is making dessert for breakfast. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oX_Sp6qGfrylabM And when I'm in the US my main struggle is to find proper bread with high texture and fiber, because that´s what I as a Swede have for breakfast.

[@sarasvensson6026]

I'm from Sweden. We don't have death penalty here and people that get "life in prison" can in some cases be released after 18 years. I also remember debating for and against death penalty in school. I am against death penalty and I think most Swedes agree with me on that. I understand that prison is supposed to be rehabilitation and not punishment here, which I agree with, but it's hard when something happens to you or a person you love - to see the perpetrator get so little time in prison. My friend was stabbed and killed by a guy trying to rob him back in 2019 and the killer only got 16 years. He will probably get out sooner than that though. My friend was 18.

[@kilipaki87oritahiti]

What many fails to understand when reacting to prisons in Norway: 1. this just one type of prison. 2. it will only seem like “luxury” to those which countries treat their own people like shit. Here no one would never think of this as a luxury prison or hotel for criminals. Why? Because we have a higher standard of living, and most people being middle class, we can all afford the same stuff. Therefore this isn’t luxury, but the bare minimum. To a Norwegian that prison cell would look like your basic dormitory room, or average bed room. Nothing fancy. Because Norway has an actual functioning democracy with human rights, what you see as the norm in regard to prisons and how they are treated, to us is just unnecessary, cruel and inhumane.

[@jericoba]

Florence + the machine is awesome. Lucky you to see her perform live.

[@ikeettgaming]

The problem of the norwegian prison is its made the norwegian society , an ameriacn would have imediatly a weird thinking : i can try to rob a place , if i get caught ,the prison are nice ... they will fing loops try to outsmart the system , where people in norway understand its a punishement . The people getting out the prison are way less encline to do bad stuff , exept if you have enter for the wrong reasons .

[@RogerBengtsson75]

None of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Norway Sweden, Finland and Iceland) have capital punishment and all view the act of imprisonment as the punishment and try to rehabilitate the inmates to be good productive in society when there released. Halden high security prison that's featured in this video is a maximum-security prison where you put murderers and others that have high sentences for violent crimes.