Amtrak Lake Shore Limited Split in Albany | Hudson River Views on our way to New York (Part 2)

[@davidburrow5895]

You could certainly book the Lake Shore Limited and the Ethan Allen as two separate tickets. I went to their website and tried booking them together, and the option for the Ethan Allen didn't come up. I'm pretty sure that's because it's too tight of a connection. Amtrak generally will only guarantee connections of more than 90 minutes.

[@Thom-TRA]

Ah, thank you! Will certainly give it a try next time. I’m sure the 100-minute stop at Albany has a good reason, but it feels kinda rough as a passenger having been on the train for 16 hours to see another train head out in front of you 😅

[@seprishere]

@@Thom-TRA Well, London Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour/Southampton Central and Bognor Regis trains don't need anything like this long, and they routinely split (and, in the other direction, join), every 30 minutes for most of the day. Admittedly those are EMUs, but 10 minutes should be achievable even with locos. Also I routinely book 20-odd minute connections at Birmingham New Street (12 is the official minimum).

[@transitRus]

@@Thom-TRAbefore the pandemic, the Lakeshore Limited was discharge-only from Albany to NYC. So once all station work was completed, the train could leave from each station before scheduled departure time. In recent years, this restriction has been lifted at Albany and Rhinecliiff, allowing local riders to board train 48 to New York at these stations, forcing the train to depart at the time scheduled thus creating the lengthy stop in Albany.

[@Thom-TRA]

@@transitRus oh that's so interesting

[@arava.kapoor2964]

Hey Tom! Great vid! To answer your question at 16:30, The P32s do not use electric power from Croton-Harmon to the Empire Connector because the locomotives are designed to only use the 3rd rail shoes for short distances and they will have a much shorter life if they are used all the way to C-H. That’s why MNR uses the P32 electric mode only in the park Ave tunnel for operation to Poughkeepsie. But, the new Siemens locomotives will be able to run on 3rd rail till C-H and switch over on the go. The northeast regional ones will also allow direct service from NY to south of DC without a locomotive change. 😊

[@あいうえお-o6s1f]

In the past, The Lakeshore Limited timetable used to leave Chicago much earlier and arrive in Boston and New York much earlier. I was able to have dinner in the dining car after leaving Chicago, and it was nice to see the view of the Hudson River while it was still light.

[@ZenkoTheGreat]

Historically, Amtrak does not use third-rail between Croton-Harmon and the split at Spuyten Duyvil because Metro North's third-rail into Grand Central is under-running (meaning the pickup shoe rides beneath the third-rail), while the Amtrak third-rail into Penn Station is over-running. When Amtrak and Metro North both ordered P32AC-DMs around the same time in the early 1990s, to replace the FL9s, Metro North ordered P32s with under-running third-rail shoes because they ran into Grand Central only. Amtrak ordered P32s with over-running shoes because the West Side Connection to Penn Station had just reopened and so they would only be running into Penn Station. However, the recent rebuilds of the Amtrak P32 fleet (which saw them receive their new "Phase III Empire" paint scheme and emergency escape hatched in the nose) saw the Amtrak P32s refitted with third-rail shoes that could run on both Grand Central's under-running and Penn Station's over-running third-rail. I believe it is still practice to use the diesel as long as possible before switching to third-rail.

[@joerivanlier1180]

Anything but underrunning 3rd rails are qualified manslaughter imho.. if for some reason you need to evac a train and stepping in the third rail will kill you it's a bad design.

[@MaximusNYC]

It can be convenient to be able to transfer between Amtrak and Metro-North along the Hudson at the places where they overlap. The last time I rode the Lake Shore Limited was November 2023, and our train going into Manhattan was halted in Croton-Harmon due to a damaged parking deck above the West Side Line in NYC. Amtrak was able to put us on a Metro-North train, which took us to Grand Central instead of Penn.

[@officialmcdeath]

Been bingeing on your back catalogue whilst waiting for your next installment of the big May adventure, thought I'd just drop in to add to the Croton-Spuyten Duyvil current collection debate - apart from the accurate observations on incompatible pickup systems, there is the small matter of the accounting mess that would result from the national operator taking energy on NY State's dime and the political infighting that might ensue. Thank you for everything you do here - it's a model of consistency and passion we can all learn from \m/

[@Thom-TRA]

Great addition, didn’t even think about that. We can’t expect agencies to work together for the sake of the climate now can we…

[@XZavierdoesStuff]

"Passengers should proceed to track track"

[@Thom-TRA]

Track track, ya know?

[@timothywalker4563]

That train station still has really good music while you wait out on the platform 🤓

[@rutheliz75]

One thing good about the Amfleet cars is the convenience of the curtains versus shades since one shares a window with the seat in front or behind you. if you want the view just keep the curtain open ; if not close the curtain and it will not bother anyone ahead or behind. The shades on the other hand cover the whole window which may cause a conflict.

[@Thom-TRA]

That is a good point I hadn’t thought of yet

[@Troggle84]

Albany-Rensselaer is actually one of Amtrak's top 10 busiest stations since it's near where a bunch of lines meet. There are 8 trains a day to New York City (5 Empire Service, plus the Lake Shore Limited, Maple Leaf and Ethan Allen Express) and they are quite popular, especially on weekends. That will increase to 9 a day once the Adirondack resumes. It's pretty terrible to drive into Manhattan and it's only going to get worse, so people often view it as a way to not have to worry about the high parking fees down there (Ex: $40 to park for 5 hours on a weekend). As recently as last September, pricing for tickets to New York City were actually competitive with Greyhound if you bought roughly 2 weeks in advance. Now, the best price you'll get is $36 one way for Saver tickets. The time to get to Manhattan is similar to the bus if you don't get delayed, but you get so much more room, an actual tray table (Greyhound's fleet refresh dropped them for some reason) and people that don't use you as a pillow. It's actually quite nice. I like it. Albany-Rensselaer is my home station and I make the run to New York City a couple of times a year (including Easter weekend for the New York Auto Show).

[@Thom-TRA]

I enjoyed my brief stay there! Wish more corridors in the US had competitive rail service like this

[@amfm889]

The jazz-vocal music over the PA on the Albany-Rensselaer platform, was, uh, interesting. Maybe to take your mind off off the wait!

[@Thom-TRA]

I think I heard Santa Baby at least 3x on the platform hahaha

[@deaventuraconkikomas4281]

That's one thing I always notice with the staff on the Amtrak trains, all of them are very rude. I totally agree with you. I don't know why also the main conductor, I asked one time to see the driver's cabin and they just slam the door on me and not even seeing from the outside very rude, I don't know why, besides that, it was a very nice trip, I did the same one but the other way, New York to Chicago and had the same good experience of the split on Reseeler Albany, pretty cool. Thanks for sharing again.

[@Thom-TRA]

I wanna be fair though, most the staff is actually very friendly. Especially on the Midwestern routes and some of the routes out west. I even had a lady in Chicago give me a refund that I wasn’t entitled to one time. But you’re right, there are also many who don’t care about their customers at all. I’m glad you enjoyed your trip from the Big Apple to the Windy City.

[@hallze3737]

I sometimes do service work on Lake Shore Limited(448/449) from Boston to Chicago

[@Thom-TRA]

Just a point of clarification: there is no law prohibiting diesel trains from entering New York Penn (there is a law about steam trains, interestingly). However, it is Amtrak, MTA, NJ Transit policy to operate trains on electric power because of diesel fumes in the tunnel. There are a few exceptions, like in emergencies or special occasions, but for the vast majority of trains, diesel operation is strictly avoided. So much so that they have invested a ton of money in dual-mode locomotives, third rail infrastructure, and crew costs, just for a really short stretch of track.

[@OwlGreene]

So awesome. Grew up in Alb, live in Schenectady! You showed my street in the video!

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow that’s so cool!

[@dougowens6180]

Good video enjoy always enjoy watching lovely to seeore

[@robertlee6781]

Great series! I didnt know the locomotive had a third rail shoe. I wondered how the train was going to work with thee underground portion in the city.

[@Thom-TRA]

In the future they’ll use battery locomotives!

[@PierceHaviland]

Amtrak and Metro North dual mode engines operate in diesel outside of tunnels for one main reason. The dynamic brake resistors are used as part of the electric system so there is no dynamic brake in electric mode. That causes a lot of brake shoe wear. Also the top speed in electric mode is 60 mph while the track speed is 75.

[@londonwhaley8690]

I enjoyed that video👍👍

[@AshleyRyan15]

6:35 "passengers should proceed to track track." (No track number was given.)

[@ronaldculp9774]

How does someone so young afford to travel on so many trains around the country Lov ur videos

[@Thom-TRA]

I look for deals! I save on a lot of other areas in my life and try to travel for cheap This channel is also monetized, which helps. Glad you love the videos!

[@anthonywarrener1881]

I thoroughly enjoyed your video, but was sorry to hear you had poor onboard attendants. I have travelled on the Lake Shore Limited, but to Chicago, and hired a roomette, which entitled me to free meals throughout, which were very good. I thought the time taken to join the Boston portion atAlbany was ridiculous, for the Boston portion arrived first, and there were no other trains in the station ! Apart from removing the P32 from my train, all the two P42s which had brought in the Boston portion had to do was run forward to the crossover points, and then back on to the New York section ! Surely, 20 minutes would be more than sufficient ! Many thanks for all your information, and I agree the Moynihan Hall is spectacular.

[@Headlesshorse]

Your right about the excessive time in Albany/Ren....its Amtraks way of making up time...and probally something to do with the "Slot" Amtrak gets on Metro-North during rush hour.

[@joshc2650]

9:26 Very smart idea Amtrak has

[@apr859]

Schenectady to Albany is 110mph and Hoffmans-Schenectady is 90-100mph

[@MaximusNYC]

A couple years ago, I took the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago, and then the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to New York. I had roomettes for both legs, and the Viewliner II roomette on the LSL was amazing -- significantly nicer than the Superliner roomette on the Empire Builder. But the staff on the Empire Builder was so much more gracious and helpful than the staff on the LSL. I don't know why, but even in the sleeping cars and dining car, the LSL staff were brusque and seemed annoyed by questions. It was weird.

[@Thom-TRA]

This one time I rode the LSL I had horrible staff too

[@MaximusNYC]

@@Thom-TRA Yeah, when you mentioned your weird cafe car incident, it reminded me of my experience. Not sure what's up with LSL staff!

[@ronaldculp9774]

Is that a older brother and ur lady friend u sure do Lov trains and know a lot about them peace with u all

[@Thom-TRA]

Younger brother

[@Cubbie410]

Those trains that go up to albany have dual modes meaning they can do electric AND diesel.. it switches to electric and diesel depending on the direction... Also, yes you can book to albany and switch to the ethan allan

[@Daniel-hj8el]

17:21 Oh yeah that bridge is actually originally called Tappen Zee bridge but since this same bridge replaces original Mario M. Cuomo Bridge but Locals in New York City don't really like renames...

[@RailpaxScott]

I think the risk with booking The Ethan Allen Express would be if the Lake Shore Limited were to run several hours late. Nice video again!

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s a good point!

[@seprishere]

@@Thom-TRA Book as your Lake Shore Limited is coming in? Alas they aren't flexible tickets so you can't just jump on.

[@cargil10]

Next saturday I will be doing the same travel but only to Buffalo (Me and my wife are going to Niagara Falls) so this videos really help me out to see a little view of how is going to be our trip and stations that we will being to. Thank you and greetings from México. We really love trains to and looking forward to see more videos of you.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks for the comment! Glad I was able to help. Enjoy Niagara, it’s a pretty weird place but I’m sure you’ll appreciate the waterfalls. Are you taking a train from Buffalo to Niagara?

[@cargil10]

No, we think will be on the bus, I've seen that is the best way to move to the city. Thanks for the advice. You have a new subscriber from Mexico 🇲🇽.

[@lukeskywalker6338]

You should ride the lakeshore limited from Boston

[@Thom-TRA]

Someday I will

[@Southern_California_Railfanner]

The reason why Amtrak does not run electric in croton Harmon is that the p32 -ACDM can be in electric mode for only ten minutes or less

[@Southern_California_Railfanner]

@@metropod huh interesting never new that

[@Southern_California_Railfanner]

Also the diesel locomotives that enter penn station must be shut off and powered off so no fumes get into penn station

[@alk61695]

I would have tried to get onto that Ethan Allen train that left Albany earlier.

[@helloworldstein]

So the train only turns on the third rail pickup as it enters the tunnels. The locomotives aren’t really true dual modes and they actually go into a much lower power mode and have overheating issues that prevent them from long term continuous third rail operations.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks for the explanation!

[@mmanisr22]

I thought it was just me. That LSL crew is rude, quite a stark contrast from other crews in the system. Side note when they started running Empire service out of Penn Station they had to get rid of the homeless that was living in the tunnel in Manhattan. They had a whole city down there. BTW, nice video.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you! Glad I’m not the only one

[@Headlesshorse]

Lotsa attitude on the LSL crew historically. Always confusion at ALB during the split/double for unwarry passengers...seen people miss trains.

[@seprishere]

I don't understand why it takes so long to split a train. At Horsham it's done routinely (every 30 minutes during the day, front portion Southampton Central/Portsmouth Harbour, rear portion Bognor Regis) and takes only a few minutes. Even with loco haulage it shouldn't take anywhere near this long!

[@Thom-TRA]

I have no idea. I think they do more than that.

[@simonhashem9763]

Hey I am in that video!

[@Thom-TRA]

Cool! So we were on the same train?

[@simonhashem9763]

@@Thom-TRA yeah

[@ChrisH-1952]

Great video, Tom, thank you. Unfortunately the commentary is inaudible over the sounds of the loco engines at Albany, but most of it is excellent and very informative. You asked why Amtrak don't run on third rail electricity all the way where there is that facility. I don't know, but I would guess it's something to do with the amount of power those big locos would draw down and perhaps the generating power is not up to that as well as the lighter commuter stock. Enjoy all your really varied work.

[@afcgeo882]

The dual-mode locomotives were designed with Diesel power as the primary drive. Their electrical system is weak and will overheat during extended use. As such, the trains switch as soon as they clear the tunnels.

[@raefamily3141]

Making the reverse trip next month. Taking benedryl, earplugs, and sleep masks in the hope of better sleep

[@Thom-TRA]

That should be more than enough!

[@TrainBusinfo]

Greetings from india😀😀🤝

[@michaelscott7706]

At croton harmon the third rail is under running vs over running which the amtrak engines have.

[@Thom-TRA]

Ah, thanks for the explanation, that is helpful! Love that on one of the few electrified tracks in the country, the trains’ systems are incompatible. Not.

[@michaelscott7706]

@@Thom-TRA yea NY Central built it that way. However the M8s on the New Haven line have shoes that can do both 3rd rails. As far as amtrak is concerned they only use the 3rd rail in the confines of Penn Station.

[@ZenkoTheGreat]

@@Thom-TRA because one system was built by New York Central in 1903 and the other was built by the Pennsylvania Railroad a few years later.

[@dfwrider3830]

track track

[@sbeckas]

What do you all do for affordable sleeping? Hostels? inexpensive hotels? It is more expensive for solo travelers

[@Thom-TRA]

Being a hotel rewards member can help a lot

[@shauntakata1762]

Do these have a rear control stand?

[@TrainBusinfo]

Very Nice💖💖🌈🌈👏👏👍👍📽

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@willgibson9718]

Can you please make a video about path train to Newark ny?

[@Thom-TRA]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZqzmGuaecdjaqs Hopefully this should help you. I have a few more that are older.

[@EmilePoelman]

I always thought rail travel in the US was dying because flying is so cheap and the distances so large. Is there a revival of rail travel going on or expected? Is there real investment in railways?

[@Thom-TRA]

I wouldn't call it a revival just yet, but there's thankfully still a core of people who choose to take the train, and government funding to support it. In some areas of the east coast, the train has never really left people's lives. I do think we can expect a revival, with 66 billion dollars going to Amtrak. There have been a lot of new routes and frequency raises announced recently! Exciting times, finally.

[@EmilePoelman]

@@Thom-TRA Good news! Flying is less sustainable, and trains are more fun anyway! Greetings from the Netherlands.

[@JM.5387]

Pres. Biden is a big fan of Amtrak, and has made train modernization and expansion a policy goal.

[@rodrigoalfonsovasquezsalfa6224]

Nice video.. I have a question: did this train use to arrive to Grand Central Station in NY City around 40 years ago? I took this train from Chicago to New York in 1982 and I remenber that I arrived to Grand Central Station.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yes, it did! The empire connection was opened later so passengers could travel to other Amtrak trains at Penn Station.

[@jfmezei]

Trains from/through Albany all went to Grand Central until 1991. That is when empire corridor was opened with limited access to platforms at Penn Station. (the way tunnel connects with tracks there doesn't allow access t all platforms). During summer of 2017 and 2018, tese trains returned to Grand Central due to work at Penn Station tracks disconnected the tuunnel whil interlockings were rebuilt. And in 2018, as I recall, it was rehab of the Spuyten Duyvil bridge as well as tracks in the empire connection.

[@MichaelL-vy1te]

When I visited in June 2018 from the UK the Ethan Allen train started from Grand Central and only the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited ran. In Chicago we took the CA Zephyr to San Francisco. Wonderful trip!

[@dennisforner6090]

Hi, Thom yet another comprehensive & interesting upload on another train I have added to my "To do" list - I did experience the Hudson River part on my Maple Leaf train journey to Toronto., it is great scenery. I must confess two aspects from your part 1 upload that have bothered me. Firstly I must apologize to your lovely fellow train buff wife Lindsay who I inadvertently wrote her name as Lesley in my reply. Totally unforgivable especially since my wife's mother was originally going to call her Lindsay but her father insisted on Marion instead. Secondly, the rude & inappropriate behavior of some of the Amtrak crew. Being railfans, especially Amtrak fans (I love the Amtrak experience - the traditional dining car, the P42's loco's & the horn sounds - so American & even the bell, the scenery, let's face it Amtrak is unique as train journeys go), given the organization employs over 17,000 staff one will, unfortunately, come across, from time to time, rude & even at times inappropriate behavior by staff members. I have noted that other fellow Amtrak rails fans have also experienced this. As you rightly pointed out that this bad behavior makes one appreciate outstanding customer service when it occurs and in most cases it does. You are fortunate to be able to travel so extensively. Looking forward to more of your 'trains are awesome' journeys.

[@Thom-TRA]

Haha, it's alright, we had a good laugh over it! Don't worry, it is by far not the worst thing Lindsey's been called. And as for the staff, it's unfortunate, but you are right, we are all human. Having had some time pass since the trip has helped me to develop a little bit of grace and understanding. I mostly bring it up because of how impressed I usually am with Amtrak staff. The Amtrak experience truly is great! I would love to hear more about your experience on the Maple Leaf - doing an international route sounds like a unique experience. Wishing you and Marion good health!

[@sbeckas]

Where is the link for Part 3?

[@Thom-TRA]

There is no part 3. This was a 2 part thing.

[@Greybone62]

@@Thom-TRA Take the Train from Albany-Renselær to Boston, make a Video of it, and call it Part 3. The same Video may be posted under it's own Title, I guess..

[@ethanvanorman5367]

Bear

[@Thom-TRA]

Ethan

[@pamelaemerson6309]

My experience with Amtrak staff: Out of Chicago attendants are the rudest, other stations are more professional and helpful.

[@Thom-TRA]

Not surprised