An Aikido Sparring Problem No One Really Talks About

[@jonathanyaeger2289]

I feel your pain. I’m the only fencer in 200 miles interested in Spanish rapier. Tournament fencing is dominated by Italian styles, and while I’m confident in my ability to express the method in a textually accurate and competitively successful manner, no one else wants to spend time drilling something odd and relatively unproven, with limited cross over skill to their main focus. As a result I have tons of experience sparring with the method against everything else, but blessed little drilling it with a partner, causing a plateau in development I’ve only recently found a means to work past, by trading training time another fencer wanting to do something exotic. I hope the increasingly greater reach of your channel shakes loose a solution for you.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Basically a very parallel problem, then. Other comments have really pointed out the same kind of underlying issues though. I do find it interesting how there are often these loud critics online about proving the unproven, but in practice no one actually wants to devote time to it lol. Like you, I feel like if I can get to some of the positions I need to, I’m pretty sure I could execute what I need to. But I’d like to drill that positional stuff more. This is why I think the Kudo training is a reasonable thing for my training, but it still isn’t really the whole package on the content end. I hope we both have better days finding that sweet spot in the future, though.

[@kanucks9]

I would love to fight some Spanish rapier guys. Alas, there's nobody good at it anywhere nearby. I guess we need to invent teleportation lol.

[@RifZof]

I completely understand the issues with getting others to go along with sparring with you when trying to do odd techniques. I've been trying to play around with oddball techniques/variations of techniques I read in old judo and jiu-jitsu manuals for a bit, but people I roll with tend to not like it because it doesn't align with the current meta of submission grappling. It usually just results in getting "corrected" by upper belts or my training partners will tell me not to try it at all because it "doesn't work." I end up never getting enough mat time to figure it out or experiment with them. And, that's just the response to doing things that are within the same style of martial art, but have simply fallen out of favor with the larger community. I can only imagine how difficult it is to try and pitch a whole new concept to people who don't share that interest.

[@randybowman]

I'm all about doing goofy and old stuff, but I'm high enough ranked that nobody bothers me about it.

[@TenguMartialArts]

This really is the crux of the issue. People often don’t really have the patience for the strangeness and some will outright tell you it’s just not good. In truth, it might not be good at that give moment, but it never will be if you can’t put the time into it, either. It’s a really unfortunate paradigm. I get why people are like that to a degree, but it sort of builds an “on-rails” experience that I’ve never been a huge fan of

[@TenguMartialArts]

@randybowman Being high rank and therefore generally left alone was kind of my experience back home, but my ranks has very little carryover in Japan. This isn’t something im too broken up about, im sure I could carve out a name for myself in a Kudo dojo, for example, but it does mean I don’t really have the immunity afforded by rank in the short term

[@RifZof]

@@TenguMartialArts I find it really unfortunate how much things are put in a box of acceptability. I can play around with knee on belly all day, but the second I attempt a near side kannuki-gatame instead of a traditional armbar or transitioning to mount I'm told it'll never work and I shouldn't even try it. Will it work as a submission against someone with training and experience? Not really, but I have had it still give me lots of control over them despite that. On top of that I know for a fact it does actually work because I have done it to people actively attacking me at my job as a healthcare provider; which makes being told it "won't work" by my training partners, people who are used to only sparring others that also train, more grating than it honestly should be.

[@martialgeeks]

That's one of the main reasons that made me decide to stay training JJIF Ju-Jitsu rather than letting the "negatives" of that style weigh over the positives, everyone treats aikido fairly and considers "aikijitsu stuff a genuine element of the art, all of the black belts endorse us playing with those techniques, plus it's a well defined sport martial art so you do get that competitive scruitiny if you want

[@FreestyleMartialArtist]

One thing I’ll say re: “just post the sparring, bro.” I’ve posted videos of myself sparring legit Muay Thai legends, and the views don’t come. I stopped posting sparring because for as much as people say they’ll watch, they never do. Analysis, tutorial, and commentary attract more views than raw sparring footage (unless it’s shot in the style of Siam Boxing or Goldtown MMA) - so from a content creator viewpoint, even if you COULD post the footage, the channel probably wouldn’t get the views it needs to spread

[@randybowman]

What I personally like is film study of sparring. So you analyze the technique in question in a drilling setting with arrows and circles and slow motion sometimes. Then you put on sparring and competition footage doing the same type of analyzing.

[@junichiroyamashita]

I would say it is true,also because people normally cannot look at sparring itself and gain insight without explanation or commentary.

[@TenguMartialArts]

That’s interesting and also a shame. I definitely think I’d run my footage through an editing software and give some commentary because, frankly, I think some of what I’d be up to would be a little counter intuitive otherwise (“why is he giving up that body lock to go to an arm?” type deals). Even if the content itself isn’t a staple piece, I think it would be nice to have around just as a rhetorical tool. When people do that the understandable skepticism, I can throw up the link. But, yeah, we’d have to see what the circumstances are when I finally get around to it. It may well be end up being something I can only post irregularly, too, depending on partners and time and what not.

[@FreestyleMartialArtist]

@@TenguMartialArts I hear all that. I’m just saying - for as much as I would like to see this Aikido sparring you’re developing, people who say “spar or it didn’t happen” don’t usually translate into viewers, so I wouldn’t stress over it. That said, if I can help at all - even remotely, I would love to.

[@TenguMartialArts]

@CombatSelfDefense Copy. I’ll keep it in mind and appreciate the support. For the moment I think everything is fine as is, but noted and appreciated

[@ModernTangSooDo]

I appreciate the transparency here. don’t come from an Aikido background but I’m familiar with standing locks from the compliant drills I’ve done in karate all my life and in my study over the last 10 years of the Abernethy-type approach to kata bunkai. I’ve had some success incorporating standing locks in my sparring but the process is ongoing.

[@uberdonkey9721]

While I like the idea of sparring we cannot forget something about the training principals in aikido. ie 1. Instinctive responses 2. Using committed attacks 3. Clean strong responses 4. Focus on self defense. Sport is very different because 1. Opponent generally knows your techniques 2. The start of a fight is almost always feints to assess the opponent reaction. For myself, I have used aikido against 'untrained' aggressive attackers on the street, but can completely imagine that in sport, it would not work well. However many sports have a similar problem when you take them out of their rules. For example, Judo black belts regularly tried to throw me, but if you don't wrrstle or commit energy, they find it very difficult (amd it would inevitably end up with them getting tired, and I'd flop them in a poor counter, on to the floor). Similarly boxers almost always struggle in extended fights with good grapplers. I love the idea of Aikido sparring, but actually I'd like to see it more like Muay Thai ie punches and kicks that are well trained, leading into opportunity for throws. I still think training instant responses (not just feints) is useful for self defense, but of course we cannot deny that the aikido training method is lacking something vital.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Yes,a feeder is needed, i was thinking that most Aikido techniques require a commited attack to work, my impression was that a committed pusher at least was needed,imagine a rikishi. One side focus on taking down and pushing out,the other on defending it. I was thinking something like australian Coreeda, where in wrestling match people take turns defending and attacking the center of the ring.

[@AlexanderGent]

I can completely relate to you. It can be incredibly frustrating when you know how you want to progress things however sometimes you feel like your hands are tied. Im fairly lucky in the sense that I have my own club albeit a small one. So sometimes I can try things out or introduce sparring or other aspects not usually practiced in Aikido. For the most part this works okay, but I also need to keep in mind not everyone wants to do that and some people are happy with things how they are or they are at an age where sparring no longer interests them. Either way these are other aspects you have to deal with even if you have your own place. Yes, you could run two separate classes, however thats not really feasible with an already low number of students. Im planning to travel back to Tokyo next spring, would be great to collab when Im back if you are up for it!

[@TenguMartialArts]

Someday I’d love to be in a similar position. And yeah! Feel free to reach out when the time gets closer!

[@the_d12rose]

I *really* understand this. After being effectively chased out of my BJJ gym for being trans, I've been trying to organize a club so I can spar grappling (really of any sort) with other people who've had similar experiences of discrimination (and honestly, just anyone who isn't going to do the same). But with 2 kids, a limited schedule, very little budget, and mostly beginners as training partners so far, it's going to be a long time before the club bears that fruit. It's still super worth it to me to create that space for others, but part of me is VERY ready to get to the part where *I* train again.

[@davidegaruti2582]

damn , i am sorry you got chased off for being trans ... i got off martial arts because the community just perpetrates the cycle of violence i found , and those seem to be the consequences of the cycle of violence ... i hope you manage to find somenthing that satisfies your needs ...

[@TenguMartialArts]

I’m sorry that happened to you, but glad you’ve found a way to contribute to the space despite that. Hopefully you can get back up to that level you want to be at soon enough !

[@the_d12rose]

@@TenguMartialArts Thanks, best of luck to you on finding ways to train what you love however you can as well! 🙏

[@Vitin2811]

It's awesome that you're creating a safe space for people to train regardless of gender. If you need someone to help you send technical videos and such let me know. I currently am a brown belt in bjj and a black belt in judo running my own bjj academy in Puerto Rico 👍🏾 would be gladly to help

[@Mrcashewww]

@@the_d12rose those poor kids 😔

[@thescholar-general5975]

Yeah, getting sparring partners is a huge pain. I have been looking for somebody interested in Chinese weapon sparring for a couple years now with little luck.

[@Muscleman09]

You make a good point, and i wish you luck in finding a place to train your ideas.

[@dedydet6646]

I can relate to that. I was planning to record myself sparring once i get good at it, but now i prefer to write those experiences and let people take it with a big boulder of salt because i really don't have the confidence to see myself in videos lol

[@TenguMartialArts]

It never looks as good as it feels, that’s for sure, even when you’re doing well lol

[@feirabbitt]

Yeah was going to say have you seen Dan the wolfmans , and Jamie loves martial arts videos . I was in one of dans aikido videos . I will say it is very hard to find people who you can try experiment and work on techniques with .

[@EthanNoble]

I look forward to seeing you positive footage. I train Uechi-Ryu love the traditional arts

[@kayr0112]

You should maybe have a talk with Rokas from Martial Arts Journey. That could help with exposure and channel growth.

[@TenguMartialArts]

I’d be open to it, but Rokas is a busy guy these days with the Self Defense Championship and whatnot. If it can be made to happen, I’d definitely do it

[@kayr0112]

@@TenguMartialArts glad to see you're already aware of him :)

[@Pedrbsilva]

If you are living in Japan maybe try contacting Dan the Wolfman, iirc, he lived, trained and competed in Japan and have a long history of making Aikido techniques ( and pretty much everything else) work. He might not be there now but for sure might know some people who can help you. I think that in Shootboxing standing submissions are/were allowed but I have no idea if that kind of competition or gymns are still around. Kudo is awesome, and while you might not be able to pratice what you want in class if you stick around with some luck you might get to know people crazy enought to go experiment with you on camera. But I get your point, I would love to have time to pratice a lot of different martial arts stuff but currently barely being able to do a single muay thai class a week :(

[@Pedrbsilva]

Also could be interesting to get in touch with Rokas from Martial Arts Journey, while not as involved as much as before, he also was invested in bringing a new life into Aikido, and with some degree of success.

[@Pedrbsilva]

Also would recomend you check out Hein's Approach to Aikido

[@TenguMartialArts]

Yeah, my nose was on the ground for a shoot boxing places for a second, it just seems like I’m sort of on the wrong side of the bay for most places. I wouldn’t mind having contact with other folks, just a matter of building those bridges.

[@junichiroyamashita]

@@TenguMartialArts oh,i would love to see more about Shootboxing subs, they were a peculiarity, i started looking into Aikido because i wanted to know more about standing grappling inspired by those standing submission. Why are they so rare,difficult, and how can we find a way to train them in order to make them more probable,frequent and transferable to other formats. I like the idea of choking someone,but not so much doing on the ground, why i also believe,you may gain some insight from Catch wrestling,as they are the blueprint for the "forceful" kind of submission armlocks.

[@johnl2648]

I think you will eventually get there just keep it up

[@romainliblau6406]

Hey Tengu ! Love your content as always ! I have tried the fitness of breakfalls frome the 2034 video tonight at my dojo (where I am a student but friends with the teacher) and it was great !! Going back tomorrow for more ! Sparring is not in the mood of my dojo though, I live in the south of France but come to Japan every year, I would love to meet you and train with you if the opportunity presents itself. (and I have no reservation on showing the world how I fail at aikido on film :) It's a journey anyhow) See you in the next one !

[@TenguMartialArts]

I’m glad you’re getting value out of it regardless! And same! Hopefully I’m also one day in a place to travel more freely myself!

[@retroghidora6767]

Reach out to Chadi if you want to publish some translations, he recently got into that and is making money for it! A few odds and ends about different points you made, Did you ask people to do standing rounds? It pretty normal to ask for specific condition rounds in the bjj scene in America. Like starting in mount or defending specific passes or getting back up after a takedown. Also did you get told you couldn't train at a university club? Chadi and Red Dragon Diaries were allowed into "kosen" (university) Judo clubs to film and train. It might just be a matter of asking politely if you haven't. Also I do semi regularly hunt for koryu/Aikido/Gracie self defense moves in rolling. Mixed success so far with Aikido specific stuff.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Howdy! I actually think I could do some of that now. I use translation as a way to practice my Japanese and have a backlog of older books I’m working through. At the moment though I’m mostly thinking of putting that work up behind some kind of paywall. This is still an idea that is a very long-term thing, but PDFs of translations would be just one component of the service. To your point about stand up in BJJ, yeah I always made sure to ask. I trained some BJJ back in the States so I’m pretty aware of the etiquette. I had some luck getting people to stand and go, but I could count on one hand how often I actually got to play. It was really just one other guy and our schedules were often out of sync. Also, yeah, I could maybe get into observe a club, but it’s unlikely I’d be able to train there. It could be a doorway into the style, I suppose, though. Most clubs are kind of satellites to other dojos, but it’s unclear to me how that works in Tomiki. My outsider understanding is that there was kind of a schism between Waseda (where the really famous club is located) and the mainline organization (which the dojo represents that I referred to at the end of the video). So I’m just not really sure if it would lead to anything, honestly.

[@olegajitsu]

Already doing this. I have an obscure channel so nobody's complaining about me posting my sparring videos. I'm not at a level where I can consistently land Aikido finish. So far, I've used Sankyo for my back attack defense, and ocaasionally landing it during hand fighting. My current strategy is I'm training at a BJJ/MMA gym and trying to sneak in some Aikido moves every now and then. I'm not proficient enough to land wrist locks yet but I'm consistently using wrist locks to threaten my sparring partner so I can land my actual moves. I'm exploring the possiblity of using Shiho nage in a live roll. My friend did it and demolished everyone but after teaching me the move, told me I can't use it in tournaments because many consider it illegal. An alternate strategy is I've started visiting Aikido schools looking for people who want to grapple. I've met one instructor at a gathering but haven't had the chance to visit because of distance. I'll report back every now and then. Thank you. Your content gave me the courage to physically revisit Aikido. If you're ever in Manila, let's spar too.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Hey! That’s great you’re playing with it. I just subscribed to your channel, too. I think the reality is that it’s all going to take time. Eventually I’m interested in posting what I’ve been up to, too. Sankyo seems like it’s emerging as one of the more popular techniques as well. I’m in contact with a few other people (some with channels and others without) and it just seems popular. One day I’d love to have the expendable income and free time to just make the rounds. Manila isn’t that far from me in the grand scheme of things so I wouldn’t rule it out. I appreciate the offer, what you’re doing out there, and of course the support for my channel. Happy sparring bud. I hope you can make some real headway

[@punymagus]

Dude, I feel like you're the friend I wanted and never had. For years I thought about renting a small place to throw some mats, and spend some time there with a friend just trying the oddballs. But I never managed to do so, because I couldn't even find the friend in the first place.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Obviously, I empathize. The struggle is real. It's very interesting how skeptical people are of businesses and brands and authority, but also unwilling to kind of venture off the beaten path. Its a weird contradiction in folks' mindsets. I'm sure I'm not immune, either, but in this particular niche it confuses me a bit how much people are willing to NOT be creative and NOT try to bring something new to the table. As much as the community at large seems value innovation and functionalism, there is proportionally far less recognition of what it actually takes to get there.

[@punymagus]

@@TenguMartialArts I wanted to ask, would it be hard for you to get in touch with Shirakawa Ryuji Sensei? I ask because, from his videos, he seems to be quite open minded about sparring. But again, I'm only asking this because you live in Japan, I have no idea how close or viable that would be. Still curious, though.

[@Docinaplane]

This has a kenpo feel about it with an attacker and defender. Still miles from actual sparring with two active fighters. Perhaps Aikido practitioners fear that will lead to the loss of true Aikido. IMO, if you want a real martial art, that would only be a good thing.

[@EzeHSK]

You mention having the time and the relationships to goof around. How are students in Japan? Are they friendly in general towards outsiders? What's training in Japan like?

[@TenguMartialArts]

They are fine, but reserved. I’d say they are friendly. Training is also fine, but just like anywhere else there a rules and expectations. I’ve never found them all that crazy, personally, but I know some westerners get all weird about lining up and bowing and all that.

[@kevinlobos5519]

Oh man, I so would love to lend a hand somehow, but we live in two different continents lol. The rest of this coment belongs more to the aikido 2034 video but I'll post it here anyways because it's related with the difficulty of trying to pressure test stuff that's outside of the current meta/paradigm of martial arts. What you described in the previous video aligns very much to my experience with pressure testing and exploring the martial side of taichi quan. Just like aikido, taichi has this premise of a soft style, focused on identifying the oponent's intent and using it against him. It's also extremely prone to being mystified and being exploited by scammers and dishonest people. From what I learned where I was taught, taichi's ideal range is basically clinching too, or close enough that you can initiate it at any time. Our drills and exercises focused on using the sense of touch at that very short range, to set up our defense by feeling the intent of the oponent and pummeling him with strikes to set up either qing na (standing locks) or shuai fa (wrestling). Or just straight up beat the oponent into submission if you are outstriking him just fine. We used everything from punches, palm strikes, elbows, knees and kicks. All of this sounds eerily similar to what you proposed right? The problem we faced where I used to train is that that teacher knew his striking, but his grappling was pretty sub par, so the whole grappling/wrestling aspect of taichi (for which is most famous) was lacking. Later, when I tried bjj I learned about a bunch of bad habits I developed because of that. BUT, all of the tui shou (pushing hands) from tai chi and chi sao from wing chun gave me an edge in handfighting, which made me very hard to catch during it. Weirdly enough, it alao helped me to resist being submited in the ground. Begginer belts thay had months to a year of experience on me had trouble tapping me out. I was crap at tapping them out but something is something lol. I have always wondered since then how would it be to train in a hybrid environment, where opportunities for that clinch range striking and locking are incentivized or promoted. At some point I want to try mma because that sounds like the closest to that I can think off, or at least where it wouldn't be "illegal" to do so. Haven't had the opportunity yet. Had some training with my students where I taught such thing but trying it on people closer to my level or even better than myself at it is something I haven't had the opportunity yet. So yea, I feel you man, I wish you can build all of this with time. I'll be eagerly watching the process as you go through it.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Very similar and, honestly, I heard this quite a bit from Chinese MA practitioners--which is probably why I feel such a kinship with that crowd. I'd agree MMA is, on paper, the "place to be" for this stuff, but have also found in practice that people are very interested in "the meta" in those environments. On one hand, I get that is what they are there for, on the other it means a lot of people will be completely disinterested in or even scoff at the idea of trying these things. Really, I think it boils down to finding that sweet spot and the right crew--which is really tough in practice. I genuinely envy folks who have it. I definitely think the "answer" is just to start my own thing, but then there is all the stuff that goes into that. No matter how you shake it, I'm kind of in a long-term progression. Although, to what you're saying about hybrid training, yes, I think there is a massive hole in the market for that. We've now compartmentalized martial disciplines so much that I think very few really engage with the idea of mixing things. Yes, MMA exists ostensibly for that, but its also dictated by a kind of orthrodoxy that people don't like to deviate from. But I'd agree with you that there should be more places where you can go to train that way; it shouldn't just be the domain of MMA. Historically, it wasn't; I think the compartmentalization of arts was more about differentiating brands than out of some martial consideration.

[@stargobo]

As someone who came from a kickboxing background and now takes sutemi waza, I am not bold enough to risk my joints resisting. I think the danger level just means you basically have to yield to any level of kuzushi and positioning for many techniques. And then there are techniques I refuse to accept in any form of randori or sparring, like yubi waza. What older martial arts found acceptable is not always practical today either. Have to look for what is possible to carry forward with modern technicians too.

[@stargobo]

Just this month I got to do Gasshuku with Washizu Sensei and the simplicity of "be in the right spot at the right time" was wild. His henka sutemi waza was just moving with the opponent, but it was like watching a ball spin in the wind- always where the partner reached creating weakness. Standing technique is fine, but falling technique is near unstoppable.

[@dorukgolcu9191]

I live in between two fencing clubs, one is a 50-min drive each way, the other 1.5 hours each way... My advantage is being a freelancer, so I can sorta shape my schedule around making that, but I know what you mean about what a pain it is

[@TenguMartialArts]

Yeah, in a world where I’m my own boss, I think I could swing dropping the time. At the moment my work schedule is a weird 11 to 8 schedule plus travel time and it’s just… not conducive to most places. I’m looking around for other work, but that’s a big hurdle atm Other than that, I generally like to train about 3-4 times a week, but I might have to bite the bullet on that one and accept twice. I just refuse to pay a full time tuition fee for 4 classes a month.

[@Laj-t9k]

No need to apologize or qualify yourself with respect to your current limitations. That you would entertain the possibility of humoring people's requests for posting sparring videos is admirable, but unnecessary. The content that you publish is consistently S tier in terms of its considerations, conversation, etc., and there are few--if any--other creators capable of putting out anything similar. Thanks for all your work, Tengu.

[@Stridercondor]

Sounds like the answers you seek may be found in Hapkido. Although not all Hapkido is the same, the style of Hapkido I teach covers strking offensively and defensively.

[@FunkyBukkyo]

We're on the same length on this one. At the end of the day, we may need to start our own dojo to experiment. Well, maybe it doesn't have to be a dojo, but a community... a research society... 研究会

[@TenguMartialArts]

Agreed and I think that would have to be the first step. A 研究会 is kind of what I've been eyeing, but I'm always a bit concerned about my Japanese ability in so far as advertising, organizing, and leading. I'm conversational and can read alright--always getting better, but at the moment administrative stuff seems daunting haha

[@FunkyBukkyo]

@@TenguMartialArts Maybe start small. Just a group of people that like to discuss such topic and experiment. From there, plus social media / KZbin, you could pique people's interest and garner a following. Just to note, I'll be in Tokyo end of this November. Let me know if you would like to meet up for coffee (or stronger), or maybe even train a bit.

[@ZanOGAL]

Holy cow back to back uploads 😂

[@dirtygeazer9266]

Fr bro pumps quality

[@TenguMartialArts]

I’m trying to keep a decent content flow these days haha. At least until life gets busy

[@ZanOGAL]

@@TenguMartialArts understood brother. But we rarely have an influencer that talks about good topics like u do. U are putting out high quality, topics that not many people talk about. So im just worried u might burnt yourself out. Like said. Love your content. As a judoka, learning aikido is beautiful

[@ZanOGAL]

@@dirtygeazer9266 fr.

[@Mbgengar]

I have to echo everyone else in the comments rlly feeling this hard. Ive been interested in Reverse Seoi since you mentioned it, i feel like its a good fit for my ippon seoi/firemans game, but its obv banned in Judo and i dont really want to accidentally bomb training partners in bjj…I’m going to have to literally just get the other people who’re in both programs 1 on 1 to try stuff out briefly lmao

[@TenguMartialArts]

Yep, that’s typically how it goes. Reverse Seoi is fun though. I spent quite a while on it until it got banned in Judo a few years back. Still a little salty about it lol

[@NYTomiki]

I understand you have logistical issues with getting to a Tomiki school but I think you could still benefit by turning your attention to the existing large body of work. I would suggest starting with “On Jujutsu and it’s Modernization” by Kenji Tomiki which alone covers most of your 1st video, with the exception of your rule set and the marketing issues. These people have been experimenting and competing for 70+ years and there’s a lot of material you can draw from. Is Tomiki Aikido perfect? No. Do all Tomiki schools stress its martial aspect equally? No. Do some schools allow cross training/sparring with Judo, yes actually. I’ve noticed this trend of Traditional Aikido students trying to fix Aikido by reinventing Tomiki Aikido, in most cases, poorly. Designing a rule set for a combat sport that is safe enough for amateurs but still effective is a more difficult prospect than most realize (I’ve been working on my own on and off for the last 3 years) and I don’t envy anyone tasked with that responsibility, much less the criticism that inevitably comes. However, I think the existing Tomiki Aikido rule set does an admirable job of inculcating and making real, Aikido techniques.

[@jacesmith9342]

I say we just create Tengu-ha Aikido and take it from there.

[@TenguMartialArts]

I'm fine with that. I think I've said as much elsewhere, but if people want it to be named something different, I'd not resist that either way. Key is the practical side of that and having a place to train... preferrably filled with people lol

[@jacesmith9342]

@@TenguMartialArts I’d see it more as a marketing type thing as you pointed out in your 2034 video.

[@GeorgeMoon-p1t]

I think if you were to spar with aikido you’d have to put it in the context it was made for. These techniques come out naturally when there’s a weapon , without one not so much. So maybe in a kendo grappling format it’s tricky because when you’re non compliant with these techniques you get hurt that’s why you take the fall. A submission on the ground is different because your pinning the opponent and you can control the amount of pressure on the joint with standing joint locks it’s different because your applying the lock from 0-100. I personally think o sensei philosophy isn’t that deep it’s just about creating a defensive art to make better individuals instead of the imperial way of offence

[@-westman3619]

Ya I've wanted to start a group for experimenting in my area, but many are old and can't be doing things like that, and the young ones are too nervous because all the MMA and BJJ folks feel the need to instantly "humble" people. Now it's been a couple years since I've gotten to regularly spar with aikido and it's always with BJJ folks because I can never find other aikidoka to do it with.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Story as old as time haha, sounds like my area back in the States, tbh

[@-westman3619]

@@TenguMartialArts it really is, I'm glad you brought some attention to how hard it actually is to make move in a more "live" direction

[@baustinshaw2375]

Are you near a Tomiki Aikido location? Could be a solid find and close to ur goals

[@TenguMartialArts]

Not really, closest one is a 3 hour round trip, unfortunately

[@DanielDavies-il9kz]

Surely it’s Japanese JuiJitsu men you’re after?

[@yuriysemenikhin302]

Sorry, didn't bother listening to the end. If one is polite and cool, one can get sparing sessions in multiple MMA, Judo or Gracie Wrestling gyms, when those have an Open Mat Sessions. Although filming might be a bit harder, but if one becomes more familiar to people they spar with, this should not be a problem.

[@CourageCombatives]

I sincerely appreciate what you're trying to do here, yet I think that in some ways you're really overthinking this. Please allow me to respectfully explain. First- let's address what Aikido actually is, and where it came from. Aikido, as we all know was founded by Morihei Ueshiba. Ueshiba was a martial artist, who understood the violent roots of Bushido very well. We all know his pedigrees of training. But he was also a mystic and philosopher. He realized that Japan (and the world) was rapidly changing, and that the old, violent ways of Bushido's past had to shift if they were to exist at all in a modern society. Ueshiba correctly believed that there was a primal, spiritual element to the arts of violent conflict. He sought to create a practice that embodied the physical aspects and benefits of the old martial arts, while incorporating the spiritual components of living, moving zen. This was designed to be an art of inner peace that originated from arts of war. Thus, at its most basic, Aikido is a fundamental expression of yin and yang across many levels- physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. Aikido is a multi layered practice that is much more RITUAL in nature than combative. Its benefits derive from the flexibility, mobility, strength, durability, and mental flow states that it produces. If you look at it holistically, it perfectly illustrates the 5 spirits of Budo into one practice. (Shoshin, Mushin, Zanshin, Fudoshin, and Senshin) In short, it's a master class in Asian philosophy and spirituality. All of this being said, it's completely irrelevant to compare it to modern combat sports such as MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing, etc.. If you really want to make a fair comparison, Capoeira is a much better fit. Why do people do Capoeira? They do it because of the physical, mental, and spiritual benefits that it offers, along with the support of a caring community. At its core, it's not about a fight, even though its origins lie in combat. I believe that the Aikido of Shirakawa Sensei is making strides in this same direction as Capoeira with his unique athletic interpretation of Aikido. (as you pointed out) I think that this approach can market the art in a different way, and to a different and more youthful demographic than the usual martial arts crowd. I personally think the future of Aikido lies in a performance art direction, similar to Parkour, Street Skating, Breakdancing, etc- Albeit with a strong spiritual component. And it can perfectly coexist with the fighting arts when it is correctly defined and understood. As far as sparring, if you want to spar- Go spar! It's not difficult to find partners to box, kickbox, wrestle, and grapple with. Learn the combat sports. By ALL means. Video it if you want to document your journey, but it will never be Aikido. If you want to incorporate weapons, then by all means train in a reputable FMA or HEMA system. While you're at it, go get some fundamental firearms training as well. Be a well rounded warrior. Train hard, train often. Hold yourself to a high standard. Sorry for the long post- I felt compelled to put my two cents in here based on my own experience as a lifetime martial artist and instructor. I have so much to say on this kind of topic, but this isn't about me. It's just an effort to contribute to what your'e doing here. And for that, I thank you for your hard work putting these videos together. I look forward to your new posts! Cheers from New Orleans!!

[@TenguMartialArts]

Hi, I appreciate the well-thought out post. Frankly, I wish those making criticisms were as thoughtful and respectful in their assertions as you were here. To address your points: You are absolutely correct in that Aikido unto itself is certainly more ritual than martial art. However, I'd also point out that all these techniques exist divorced from Aikido in other arts. While there may not be a direct link between them, this demonstrates that there is martial application to them and the Aikido ritualist ideology was only later grafted on. Under normal circumstances, I think this would be fine. Aikido is hardly the first art to accumulate techniques and then slap a philosophy on it. Much of the time, these kinds of philosophies even have genuine use. Indeed, the Aikido-adjacent concept of embracing what the world throws at you and blending with it is something I use often in day to day life; in job hunts, in relationships, and in response to unforeseen problems. My issue with Aikido is that it is fudamentally tied to Ueshiba's well-documented imperialist alignment. The "peace" he offered was contingent upon a Japanese world order and, while he conceptualized Aikido as ritual, it was ritual with the emperor at the center. If you can muddle through the confusing Japanese, his Takemusu Aiki lectures (preserved in written form under that name) outline this well enough--even though Ueshiba himself was a pretty horrific communicator. Likewise, the Sangenkai blog and his associated social media acccounts unpack this history pretty thoroughly through various posts and sources. Even if we take the most modern interpretation of this concept, though, I find it difficult to reconcile the notions of "peace" and "blending" with Aikido's institutional actions. How many prominent students, for example, were driven from the Aikikai in the early days? How is Aikikai's inability to negotiate, compromise, and incorporate derivative ideas into its structure upholding its own principles? It seems like every day Aikido becomes more and more *exclusionary* as opposed to responding and blending to stimulus. It isn't reconciliation, but exile that Aikido most often relies upon to resolve its internal issues. I can't speak for anyone else, but I struggle to accept a philosophy that seems to be routinely contradicted by people at the very heart of the system. Aikido has a massive issue on the whole with saying one thing and then committing itself almost completely to doing the opposite. We'd expect, for example, such an art to promote all people according to their skill; yet no female Aikidoka has ever been given a full-time teaching position at Aikikai Hombu. Even earlier this year, the opening speech to the national Aikido demonstrations was given by a far-right politician who has a record of... we'll say "crude" opinions on foreigners that she very likely believes should be transformed into actual policy. Regardless of one's own politics, these are *very strange* behaviors from an organization that ostensibly exalts resolution, reconciliation, and moving with the flow. I'll leave this point here, but the general crux of my arguement is that Aikido *itself* doesn't seem too invested in its supposed philosophy and, in fact, is still somewhat married to Ueshiba's deeply flawed politics. Maybe that is "authentic" Aikido, but also who exactly is such an Aikido *for* except the people who make a living off it? It strikes me as a cheap marketing gimmick; the philosophy merely a coat of gaudy paint, put there to differentiate a product as opposed to being genuinely believed in and pursued. Even if I disagree with the philosophy, I could respect it more if I saw Aikido institutions being clearly committed to the premise. But I digress... To your point about Shirakawa Sensei and Capoeira; I really don't have any aims to degrade or criticize that project or trajectory. I think many on the "martial side" of the Aikido spectrum view it with some disdain, but I don't. My position isn't so much that it needs to stop, but that all expressions are equally valid and should all be treated as legitimate avenues of Aikido's development. We should be spoiled for options rather than chase some kind of "true" version of the system. What I will say, however, is that Shirakawa's brand of Aikido really doesn't have the reach in the West that it does in Japan. I'm involved in quite a few martial arts and Aikido rooms are always the emptiest. The statistics I showed in my 2034 video among others also bear this out. Aikido is simply going through a demographic collapse, there really can't be much debate about that unless it comes out that something was suspect with data collection. The implication is that what Aikido is simply does not matter to Westerners anymore--particularly not young people. Even in Japan, this is starting to manifest, albeit slower. (Although, of course its slower, Aikido is a Japanese cultural asset and enjoys far more clout and domestic sponsorship than it does outside of the country.) While I've seen it argued that this decline is "actually a good thing," I just disagree. Judo is similarly going through this kind of problem in the U.S. (although for vastly different reasons). The fact of the matter is that--as much as I dislike the business-end of what we do--an art needs money to sustain itself. It needs young people to sustain itself. There may be some arguement in here that Aikido just needs to change its marketing strategy as opposed to changing its curriculum, but at the time of posting, I'm very skeptical of that. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I don't think all the marketing in the world is going to breath new life into Aikido outside of Japan unless it fundamentally changes. Now, perhaps, it could go the direction you're saying, as performance art. The issue there is getting a bunch of stubborn people to stop calling it a martial art. For me, personally, I think both (and all) can be pursued equally; combat sport, performance art, ritual. I don't see any single expression as "definitive," only the need for more options. The only iteration I'd outright deny are the clear cults that claim to be able to throw people without touching them and whatnot--that isn't healthy. But otherwise, I'm indifferent. Heck, I'd even personally teach performance Aikido in the same dojo as combat sport Aikido. I see no conflict in interest between the two. Finally, I want to address the last two pieces of your post. As for the sparring, this is pretty difficult. Especially as I am in Japan. We have to remember, Japan is the source of the idea that standing joint locks are too dangerous for live practice. I'm in the camp that thinks this deserves to be re-examined, but here its taken as an obvious truth--sort of like the "the sky is blue." Very few people are going to give you the "okay" here without having built substantial rapport first (which I'm working on, but it is a time investment). As for the "it wouldn't be Aikido" component to sparring, I'm honestly not really married to the nomenclature to begin with. If people want to call it something different, I don't have a horse in that race. What I will say, however, is that what I learned is definitely *from* Aikido. So, if we are formulating what I'm putting forward as something different, it really can't be suggested that it isn't in the same family of arts as Daito-ryu and Aikido proper, for example. That would just be historically inaccurate to suggest. But if people want to call it something different, I'm not going to oppose that. To me, its all kind of just semantics. My interest isn't so much in preserving Aikido itself, but in exploring and improving upon the technical corpus. Hopefully that clarifies some of my ideas and issues a bit more. Again, I appreciate the comment; civil disagreement is rare on the Internet and deserves to be praised and celebrated. I'm not sure if my response here will necessarily influence your views, but I'm thankful for your input and continued support regardless. The channel is fortunate to have people who are willing to articulate themselves this well even if we don't always agree. I hope you'll stick around to balance things out.

[@CourageCombatives]

@@TenguMartialArts Thanks for the reply! I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. I think of it as more a respectful discussion between martial artists! As for your reply, I’ll respond to it, as there’s a lot to unpack and reply to. I’m at work at the moment, so I can’t dive into it fully. But, I’m always happy and grateful to discuss intelligent topics involving this stuff. I make a large chunk of my living teaching, lecturing on, and refereeing the martial arts, so it’s a welcome discussion! 👍