An Analysis of IDV Classes (and the problem with Rescuers) - Identity V

In this video I discuss the identity (get it?) of every class in IDV - from Decoders, Supports, Kiters, and Rescuers. I then discuss the problem with Rescuers as a whole that every other class does not share - and why Netease should look at reworking them.
Sidenote, gameplay in this video is awful because it's either from like 2 years ago or was after my 2 year hiatus, and I promise you I'm not that bad at Ithaqua (anymore). I just didn't wanna record new gameplay because I'm lazy lol!
ty for watching the video :D

[@jestergio9961]

I think the core problem when wanting to change rescuers comes down to 3 things. 1. Rescuers are necessary to the game we have currently. This dates back to Season one. In Season one, anyone could be the rescuer because the Hunters could camp with their kits, but it wasn't strong kits to work with camping. Nowadays, we have multiple Hunters who excel at camping or excel at patrolling the chair and can kill standard survivors quickly. Because of this, rescuers are crucial to these type of situations. 2. While they all fall under the same niche, saying their gameplay are all the same is disingenuous because they all play and interact differently to certain Hunters and maps. Looking at maps, most times the best survivor to have out of these 4 is Merc and Gravekeeper because they both have ways of quickly traversing the map and possibly reaching the chair before a state passes. Meanwhile, Journalist and FO don't have the speed boost per item cost needed to make a chair on bigger maps, so theyre a better pick for smaller maps. Hunters are also crucial to look at when seeing the differing playstyle. A Merc can counter an Ann, BonBon, Ithaqua, and an Ivy very well in the meta, but he will struggle against Hunters like Gamekeeper, Opera Singer, Alva, BonBon when it comes to rescuing, and even Ann herself if she brings Warp or has max presence. Meanwhile, First Officer is better against an Opera, Gamekeeper, Alva, Ivy, and Ann while using Watch, but it doesn't help against a BonBon, Ithaqua, Wax Artist, or even Naiad. Every rescuer has his own pros and cons to playing them on certain maps and against certain Hunters and that's where bans become crucial, especially from what we've been seeing in IVL and IJL. Finally, rescuers, while easy to get to the chair, still need to prevent themselves from both going down for the rescuer or get stuffed. Sure, a Merc can ts a normal hit and still gets the rescue, but that puts the team in a double down situation, which is really bad for the team since it loses so much decoding time. Not only that, but Merc isnt immune when going against a chip Hunter like BonBon, Alva, Gamekeeper, etc. Gravekeeper still needs to unburrow to even rescue a survivor, which makes Gravekeeper a really bad rescuer himself since you can't rescue as an injured GK vs. a Merc or a FO. All the rescuers have their own sets of things they need to prevent or avoid when they go into rescue and that's why people love playing rescuer so much. In fact, I chatted with someone about thing in a VC once and they explained that they felt that Percy defeating that whole chair interaction is why they felt he is a badly designed Hunter. And while I dont agree with that take, I do understand that there are people who really like the rescuer class and put into perspective just how fun it is to pull off a flawless rescue. Reworking rescuers may ruin what makes them so special for the player or make them far weaker than intentionally, which I feel will be a bad thing. While I personally believe the rescuer class is fine as is, I still think this was a really interesting watch, especially hearing you talk about the niches in this game. Ultimately, I feel like this would be an issue I agreed with if the rescuer class wasn't so necessary to the game.

[@zaqueb]

this was an interesting comment! i never suggested they should be removed entirely, but rather made more unique and different between the characters beyond their comparatively small differences. regardless i do see your point and you are definitely right in some aspects; but i would never suggest to remove the rescue class as a whole, only make them more unique and interesting amongst themselves

[@jestergio9961]

@@zaqueb True. While I also never insinuated removing rescuers, I personally just feel like we're too far into the game to be able to make changes to the rescuer class. A lot of core issues from chair guarding is fixed due to rescuers and I feel adjusting them to be unique to each other has the chance of ruining or weaking them. Plus, I just feel the match up chart alongside map selection and situations make all the rescuers unique to each other in their own way as opposed to the other's "this character plays differently to another" sort of way. Like I said, I didn't want this to be me saying you believe rescuers need to be removed. However, I feel like the entire game needs to have a balancing tweak before rescuers can be tweaked rn.

[@sailorsheriff]

jestergio dropped a goldmine of knowledge

[@user-uw8bu4uu3h]

I never expected someone to actually talk about the rescuers of IDV, you are literally doing god's work out there can I also suggest a video featuring the decoders? I've seen a lot of new released decoders somewhat getting away from the model that netease made that they're terrible at kiting / they need support when kiting

[@zaqueb]

i could make a video on decoders but i think it would actually be more on the lines of how decoders are better designed nowadays from a casual perspective (bad kiters = less fun and interactive for both them and their team), but that in turn makes them much weaker in competitive because they need to be balanced around that fact but it is an interesting topic and i might just record something on it

[@shinynarwhal2739]

Leo main here, i agree that when it comes to rescuers, it is VERY difficult to use his camping abilities to the fullest. Rescuers absolutely dominate over him, and it is impossible to be able to counter them with bans, as one will always exist in the match regardless that does the same job, and he doesn't have good chase to make up for losing a camp situation. Very good video.

[@kawaikami]

really great video! I can relate to what you and other people say in the comments. What I don't completely like in this game is that lots of things are based on counter-picks. Not the fact that they exist, but the thing netease release new hunters and survivors to counter some strong characters or mechanics. Examples: Cipher Rush meta? - Pick Opera, Undead to get a quick down, if mech in the team or to get more Cipher control = Clerk. Harassers? - Polun. Journalist before buff vs Undead was a joke with that useless rescue illusion. Journalist vs Alva works both ways, but Alva has an advantage, Clerk can also record the little Orphy. And like you said, Antiquarian > Feaster. So yeah, I can't pick anyone I want every match and expect an easy win, but that might be fun to excel at playing vs counterpicks.

[@kim-dokja_]

Your explanations are very easy to understand! Banger video

[@0netwoguy54]

Agree, except that Gravekeeper is better in basement scenario than the other two, and weaker in normal rescue scenario than the other two (because shovel hit doesn’t give attack recovery) (I could be wrong, I’ve played for only a month, but I want to voice my OPINION)

[@Jiinkoo]

Shovel hit = attack recovery

[@MugenEclipse]

Problem with Gravekeeper is that priestess isn't even a rescue and has better basement rescues than him

[@custardapplecat2902]

Hmm I think you have a valid point but I don’t 100% agree. I think rescuers are more reliant on the hunter matchup niches. I main Ann, and a Merc vs FO pick can make a HUGE difference in the outcome of my games, as one is inherently countered and the other isn’t. It would be nice if they could somehow explore different niches than just matchups though

[@sae-pp]

AYO IM THE GRAVEKEEPER IN DA GAME 🤯

[@zaqueb]

ye ive played surv with u a lot also LOL u kinda shit on me tbh, game was from a while ago

[@pavsofficial4284]

Traditional rescuers like merc have lower win rates, but harrasers/rescuers like batter and forward have the highest win rates. Also, i highly recommend you to play on Asia or Japanese server. I used to be an NaEu player and moved to Asia. It was truely and humbling experience. In tier 7 you will face normal players who play like B4U on a daily basis

[@jeongyeonsupremacy1274]

I main mind eye and in the maps like red church that has a lot of thight kiting areas, she is pretty much untouchable against most hunters as you can see them trough walls. Impossible to mind game that. I can do 3 cipher kite against opera easily with no support. Of course hunters like naid can force me out of good areas but you can still see that naiad is trying to water you off if you are not completely new to playing IDV. Vaulting speed is pretty much compensated with knee-jerk. My advice for her, find an area with high walls and hunter mains don't play opera singer or at least don't go after me first with no presence.

[@dandandango_]

thank you zak for this banger video please post more get out of your grave and be active!!!!!!!!!!

[@pedrosantana4752]

I disagree with your overall perspective on rescuers. I do agree that they are boring and playing one of the other offers essentially the same value. But it is necessary for rescuers to reliably rescue, bc failing a rescue is almost always a garanteed win for the hunter and that isn't great balance. Thats why camping hunters have been nerfed throughout seasons, and why more and more kiting characters have abilities that help them rescue. Not to mention flywheel, which depending on the hunter, can or not be better than broken windows in chase, but always is great against any hunter for rescuing, making kiters/ harrassers that much better at rescuing overall. Another thing is that, making rescuers more interesting, inherently means making them better at other aspects of the game (an ability can't be interesting if it doesn't impact the game significantly). Which means that rescuers would have to lose something from their kits to fit these new abilities, in order to continue being balanced. That's where the problem comes, because the alternatives are: -making their rescue ability weaker, which isn't good, we need reliable rescuers -making them easier chase targets, which isn't good, you can't rescue if they're the chase target -or lowering their decoding, which just makes for more boring gameplay. I'm a bonbon main btw (I've consistently hit 10k character points the past few seasons), and I prefer for rescuers to be able to rescue, bc that incentivises them to actually play the game and rescue, rather selling and making matches more bland. You could also just straight up buff rescuers, but that would potentially bring back the old 4-3 rescuer meta, which probably made many hunters quit playing. This is by no means, disliking your video or anything like that, I've actually always wanted to make videos like this and I enjoyed brainstormig about this topic quite bit 😅. I hope you make more videos.

[@zaqueb]

no brother dw ik ur not disliking it LOL i appreciate the alternative perspective, esp from a bonbon main since feaster and bonbon arent *too* dissimilar in terms of gameplay loop and style the main point of this video was to suggest brainstorming more unique ways to rescue rather than just nerfing them, because i think rescuers *are* integral to the balance of the game and while i think they're poorly designed, they are still essential to what make the game work. as you say, if rescuers were bad then every game would be a sell and we'd all be tie merchants and we'd eventually quit the game cuz no one's tryna just play vs sell every game. as i said i think journalist is a step in the right direction, but every point you've made is right and i do agree. there's a lot of nuance to the topic that i wish i covered more in hindsight but alas, 20 minutes isnt enough considering the topic is actually rly complicated i appreciate the comment also o7

[@0netwoguy54]

Agree, except that Gravekeeper is better in basement scenario than the other two, and weaker in normal rescue scenario than the other two (because shovel hit doesn’t give attack recovery) (I could be wrong, I’ve played for only a month, but I want to voice my OPINION)

[@longing4ida]

Shovel hit does give attack recovery, but he is weaker anyway