An easy way to use Apple Music for referencing Dolby Atmos in your DAW

[@jusejuse11]

This is awesome, thank you! I had some problems at first and I wanted to write my solution here in case somebody else has this problem. So I did't want to buy loopback and tried blackhole instead. I downloaded the 64ch version. But when I played back the dolby testing file, the channel order wasn't correct, for example the hight signals came out of L,C,R and LFE simultaneously, but not Ltf. I thought I would have to update my Mac OSX, but then I tried Loopback with a 12ch virtual sound card, which worked. And then I finally installed blackhole 16ch and that also worked Yayyy!

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks for the tip!

[@zootook3422]

I use BlackHole by Existential Audio. Cost 10USD at the moment.Then I create a concatenated sound device with Blackhole and Focusrite 18i20 in the Mac sound settings setting BlackHole as the first device. Then I create a 16 channel track & master bus in Reaper. Turn on monitoring on the track and set output to the Focusrite part of the concatenated sound device. Pretty similar to the shown example by Michael. I can even insert SoundID plugin on the bus for frequency and time compensation. No decoder needed as I have 12 speakers connected to the Focusrite.

[@michaelgwagner]

Great tip! BlackHole is another popular routing software. Similar to Loopback.

[@o.g.willing]

Hi, how did you manage to plug 12 speakers into Focusrite 18i20 , it has 8 outputs. Did you connect another audio interface via adat to extend the output count ? thanks in advance for the info cheers !

[@michaelgwagner]

Most likely Adat. There aren’t really any interfaces with that many analog outs.

[@zootook3422]

​@@o.g.willing I didn't 😁 I use the 10 outputs that the Focusrite has for 6 ear level and 4 hight speakers. I pipe the LFE and center channel to the L & R front speakers using a Reaktor patch. But you can use Metaplugin or Bidule etc or maybe even the internal DAW routing. Just keep in mind to cut the level by 6dB as the sound is now in two speakers, not just one. I don't think it's a severe compromise as I'm sitting in the sweet spot and not listening to earthquakes. The drawback with using ADAT is that you have no volume control. If the ADAT card has one then you end up with two separate volume controls. Now, the Blackhole controls the volume using the computer keyboard controls so it overcomes the problem. I have a hard time understanding why none produce a mid priced 12 output soundcard for the Atmos market. The common volume control is a major issue.

[@o.g.willing]

@@zootook3422 That’s awesome thanks , didn’t occur to me that you can do around the issue this way. Yes the lack of 12 output audio interface is a bit sus and I am not buying the 3000usd interfaces , take my word . I’ll also go this way , 10 output is good for the start , i’ll try to hook up 5.1.4 setup and later get no side monitors when someone finally releases 12 output audio interface

[@wavespot_rksundar]

As far as i know even in apple music they are just streaming the apple version of binaural in the name of spatial audio because the Atmos master file is too big and is now only used for movies and Limited movie streaming platforms , so even if we try to learn the tracks we are just left with binaural version , Your videos are really great and recently i purchased the alen mayerson studio from virtual studio technology and it seems to work well with dolby renderer and logic then its apple renderer, hope to see your video on it soon

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks. I might do a video about that in the future.

[@brycehinton8182]

Thanks for this video. I'm more interested in the playback side of things. Im not a mix engineer or artist. Currently have this running on a 2020 MacBook Air (need 2018 or newer, preferably 2020+ since those have the M1 chip and the keyboard that isn't involved in a lawsuit..), BlackHole, into Element DAW (similar to audiomulch) for my speaker delay, crossover/eq, and routing. Fun to play turning the individual outputs on and off and changing the down mix routing manually to see what exactly is happening in the mix. Then out to an Orion Antelope 32, then out to 2 Crown CT8150's for 5.1.4. I greatly prefer playing back music with my Mac rather than with the Apple TV and an Atmos compatible AVR with Dirac (or equivalent). This also opens up the possibility of using this type of playback system in a vehicle for those that are so inclined to try it. That's what I'm working on now with a pure sine wave inverter. Hoping to come up with a 12v interface solution to make it simpler and more streamlined of an install. Really appreciate the tips, earned a new subscriber.

[@michaelgwagner]

Very cool! I wonder how such a system would perform in a car since you would be listening quite off-sweetspot.

[@brycehinton8182]

​@@michaelgwagner Its certainly a more challenging environment to tune in my experience. If we're optimizing for one seat, maybe the drivers seat for instance, it's as simple as using asymmetric signal delay and EQ to reach a target response. It's also possible to optimize the spectral response for all seats with careful placement of the speaker drivers in locations that minimize path length differences between the listening positions, and by using broader EQ adjustments that don't favor a particular side of the car too heavily. Imaging can be improved in both seats by using a combination of phase filters (all-pass 1st & 2nd order). Further, the use of upmixing algorithms which distribute the correlated, discreet, and out of phase content to different speakers in the car help greatly. This takes a lot of the burden off of the L&R speakers to produce a phantom center in the vocal range as now that content can come from a center speaker in the dashboard. So we have some tried and true ways that work well.

[@bewegtesmedienproduktion1703]

…klappt super mit Loop Back! Direkt mit der Dolby Audio Bridge - laufen leider nur sechs Kanäle - besten Dank!!!

[@michaelgwagner]

I think older systems are limited to 5.1. At least it seams that no everybody is getting the full 7.1.4.

[@bewegtesmedienproduktion1703]

@@michaelgwagner Hello, I believe it is because the Mac when using the Dolby Atmos Bridge directly only recognizes the 10 channels of the Dolby Atmos Bed and then is not ready to render to 7.1.4. when I put the LoopBack app in front of the Dolby Atmos Bridge, the system recognizes the Dolby Atmos capability and the Dolby Renderer gets all 12 channels. that's great! My attempt to export a 7.1.4 recorded DA master file (5.1 mpeg4) file is unfortunately not rendered up to 12 channels with the QuickTime Player on the same signal path, the file remains in the output on 5.1 This begs the question, what kind of data format is sent with Apple Music? (System: MacPro 2019/Ventura, Lopp Back, Scarlett 18i20 and Presonus StudioLive Series III 16R, Room setup via Dolby Atmos Renderer, Active Genelec Speaker Array) Thank you and best regards from Dusseldorf!

[@murraywebster1228]

Great work as usual Michael, vielen Dank 🙏🏽

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks! You’re very welcome!

[@dontpokethebear3893]

I have been looking for a software alternative to the A16 Realizer; Virtuoso + NX head tracker is only $200 for both. Seems easily worth it, even for content consumption (I am not an audio engineer).

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, that is currently the best software alternative.

[@aranash00]

Great video thanks! Question I have a 2 channel interface which is configured as a 2.0 speaker setup in audio midi setup. When i assign the mac output to that interface, apple music (when in 'automatic' mode for atmos playback options) will indeed playback the binaural version over my studio monitors or headphones plugged into the interface. So it appears apple music is seeing my interface as an apple device capable of atmos playback since im in automatic mode. When i switch the mac output to 'Pro tools 2 channel audio bridge', apple music will not play back atmos in automatic mode so its seeing it differently than my interface. Anyone have any idea why that would be? Thanks

[@DiogoCocharro]

6:15 Woowww I have never seen so many virtual devices.. 😅 What's the toll on the CPU?

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, these just accumulate since they often come with immersive audio software. No toll on the CPU though. If these are not used they don't really matter.

[@danwool]

I learn so much from you. *Thank you!* My preferred DAW, Digital Performer, doesn't have 12 channel track capability currently. Am I correct in assuming this can't be done in DP until it does?

[@michaelgwagner]

A Digital Performer 11 video is going online in two weeks. It’s about Atmos production in DP11. You can use 10.2 tracks to mimic 7.1.2 tracks. 7.1.4 won’t work, unfortunately.

[@danwool]

@@michaelgwagner Oh,10.2, of course! I look forward to your DP video, but I might do some experimenting myself until then...I forgot about the 10.2 ch option in DP. Thanks!

[@peterbulyaki]

Hi, in you Audio Midi Setup you have speaker layouts I have never seen in my MacOS, I can only select 7.1.4, that is the maximum. Did you have to install extra software to enable these layouts? Or are these part of MacOS, and I have to do something to enable them? I have audio devices with 60+ outputs, so I have enough outputs still I can't get these options. (Never mind, I figured it out, you have Ventura in the video, which did have these settings, but in Sonoma there is only 7.1.4, and no one knows why Apple removed the rest.)

[@michaelgwagner]

They took them out in newer OS versions.

[@yodhamheaven]

usually ive done this with apple tv, but nowadays i cant, seem like the apple restricrted this method and block the video.

[@michaelgwagner]

Interesting, need to check.

[@Incusaudio]

I have done this, however, Apple Music is still only outputting in 5.1 on audio playback but successfully plays back the Dolby Labs material correctly. Do you know why this could be?

[@michaelgwagner]

My best guess is that the material you are listening to is 5.1. If the test files work, the setup should be fully functional.

[@pmishraofficial]

Thank you for this!

[@michaelgwagner]

My pleasure!

[@tuanhuynh3080]

you are the greatest ever Sensei!

[@michaelgwagner]

😊

[@ohmnemusic1606]

Hi Michel! Thanks for these videos they are really helpful ! I Have a question, if you pay a subscription on Apple Music and you are using headphones, you're supposed to be listening to the binaural mixes right? So what's the point of doing all of this process since you're going to end up listening to a binaural mix anyway? Of course if you have a speaker system this is really useful but I'm not really clear if there is a difference if you're using just headphones! Thanks

[@michaelgwagner]

The binaural render that you get out of Airpods, for exampke, depends on the direction in which you are looking. So you still need to understand the three dimensional relationship of your sound sources. I might address this in a future video since this is a question I get very often.

[@BerlinTonDE]

Hello! This process is a way for sound engineers to listening to Atmos on LOUDSPEAKERS straight out of their core audio interface. Dolby Atmos is a very flexible format, that consumers (and professionals) can listen to on both speakers AND headphones. It’s not the case that Atmos is „only“ available on headphones. Typical speaker-based ways to experience Dolby Atmos include: Soundbars, Smart-Speakers, Cars, Home-Cinemas

[@robertbash380]

I wish I had a Mac! Does this method work for Dolby Atmos tracks in video files as well?

[@michaelgwagner]

Good question. Have not tried that.

[@DanielaTocan]

In my mind the end of Dolby Atmos did start with putting it to iLok protection. I know I still can but I personally put not more one cent in the mouth of avid. 9 Euros was enough. At lest to much.

[@michaelgwagner]

You don’t have to use the Dolby Atmos Renderer. The Fiedler Audio Dolby Atmos Composer works just fine. So you don’t have to use iLok protected software if uou don’t want to.

[@gravyblue]

I'm windows. I bought a 200 quid m1 macbook air and dante it into protools

[@michaelgwagner]

Nice! 👍

[@Ezequiel2022]

How can i extract stems from a dolby atmos song?

[@michaelgwagner]

What do you mean by "stems" in the context of Atmos? If you are talking about extracting individual objects, you can only do that if you have the master file and load it into a DAW that can import Dolby Atmos Master Files, such as Nuendo or DaVinci Resolve Fairlight.

[@Ezequiel2022]

@@michaelgwagner yeah! Im talking about get the vocals, bass, drums, etc from a dolby atmos song. How can i get the master file?

[@michaelgwagner]

If you want to do traditional stem separation, you would have to downmix to stereo and get it from there. The master file is usually only accessible to the engineer who mixed the Atmos.

[@MrJoshuaBeechey]

Great video! Would this be possible in Cubase 12?

[@michaelgwagner]

Sure, absolutely. I only used Reaper as an example.

[@MrJoshuaBeechey]

@@michaelgwagner Thank you. I've managed to sort out the Apple music to Virtuoso Standalone via Blackhole and it's wonderful! I'm having some trouble figuring out how to route it properly in Cubase 12. I can get it the 7.1.4 as an input, but can't monitor because you can't use separate audio devices for input and output. I'll keep hacking through for a solution :)

[@michaelgwagner]

You probably need to create an aggregate device in order to access different in- and output devices.

[@UmarFarooqHussainii]

It's nice but it's so Apple centric thing.. What should pc peoples do check with fairlight... Some idea pls

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, options on PCs are very limited, unfortunately.

[@QFXmusic]

There is a much easier way now :) Its called Ground Control sphere by ginger audio ... the perfect solution to monitoring

[@michaelgwagner]

Ground control is virtual monitor controller. It is a great piece of software but does something different.

[@HumbleServant1859]

Hello Michael! Thank you for covering this topic! Is it possible to get 9.1.6 playback from Apple Music? Every video I watch on this topic only speaks about getting 7.1.4 playback from Apple Music on a Mac. I know you can configure the speakers to play as such but I’m beginning to question if the Apple Music app is capable of 9.1.6 output natively over MacOS. Thank You!!!!

[@michaelgwagner]

I can only get it to work up to 7.1.4. The Mac has a 9.1.6 option but Apple Music seems to ignore that.

[@HumbleServant1859]

@@michaelgwagner Thank you for replying so quickly. I was hoping you had found better luck than I! I find it curious that MacOS has been such a pain to work with considering the clear partnership in place. As a sidenote, I was using the Loopback app for quite some time. I would’ve been unable to reference Apple Music without it and I like the way it’s designed. But I found out about this program called Ground Control Sphere by Ginger Audio. If you haven’t given the trial version a test drive, you should check it out and do a review. It’s really a huge help for anyone looking for a way to time align their monitors without an expensive monitor controller!!!!

[@SamHocking]

@@HumbleServant1859 I think this hack/workaround is probably tapping into the Apple Spatial Decoder and just intercepting it before it would then get binauralised for airpods. Apple Spatial on headphones is a 7.1.4 decode I believe.

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@HumbleServant1859Sphere is $500, Black Hole is free (donationware) and allows you to route to your DAW where you can have Sonarworks Multichannel etc. A good option if you can't afford Sphere.

[@VincentClaus]

Hi, I'm using an QU-24 mixing table who is a 32 I/O. Whatever the configuration, I only get 5.1 sound from Apple Music even if Mac is configured as 7.1.4. or more. An idea where to search ?

[@michaelgwagner]

Not all Macs support it and you need a recent MacOS. What’s your system configuration?

[@VincentClaus]

@@michaelgwagner Mac mini M1, 16GB RAM, Mac OS Ventura 13.4.1

[@michaelgwagner]

It’s possible that this does not work on the M1 Mac Mini.

[@VincentClaus]

@@michaelgwagner ☹ Thanks for your reply

[@forgivemeforihavesynthed]

Hi Michael , Thank you ! will this work in 5.1.2 atmos setup ?

[@michaelgwagner]

Possibly. Have not tried that.

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

How would I do this in Logic? Would I have to set up 12 tracks, turn them into an object. Pan those objects to each relative speaker?

[@michaelgwagner]

Very good question. I believe Logic limits surround tracks to 7.1.2. You can still do the same setup, just choose 7.1.2 in the speaker layout settings and make sure that the channels are mapped correctly. By default, MacOS uses channels 13 and 14 for the height speakers in a 7.1.2 configuration.

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@michaelgwagner I'll let you know how I go

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@michaelgwagner I got 7.1.4 to work in logic. I used Black Hole to route Apple Music to Logic. 5 stereo objects, 1 mono object, 1 LFE all planned to the appropriate speakers with each input set to the correct channel. Stay away from the bed except for the LFE. Works perfectly and it is also free!

[@Carlomaria]

@@NoQualmsTheArtist How did you make it? I'm trying to seti it up but with Loopback I only see input channels 1 and 2 working..

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@Carlomaria Black Hole is free, I don't know how it works in Loopback. Set up the correct channels in Audio Midi Setup for Black Hole. Choose Black Hole as the audio on your Mac. Open up logic, choose Black Hole as the input and your interface as the output, change the I/O to 7.1.4 Setup 5 stereo auxes and 2 mono for centre and LFE. Allocate the correct inputs for each channel strip. Activate the I and R on the channels so you can hear the input Open up Apple Music, turn Atmos in the settings to automatic. Find a song and press play. This works for me. Good luck.

[@thematsc]

Hi Michael Thanks for all the great content! I had no luck in findings the "hacks" for streaming dolby atmost music on a PC, that you say are on your dicord channel. Could you post a link...please :-)

[@michaelgwagner]

Link to the Discord is in the description. Things on the PC are a bit more complicated. There is a hack that allows downloading Atmos from Tidal and you can then transcode that to 7.1.4.

[@thematsc]

Thanks for a fast answer 🙂 Searching for Tidal on your discord came up with some suggestions None of them works I have a Tidal Max streaming account, so I do have access to atmos playback. I tried ripping files with some of the suggested software like AudioKeep Tidal-dl NoteBurnerTidal They all ripps in flac stereo Cavernizer cant convert Flac. And I haven't found a, flac to a file Cavenizer recognise. I don't know if flac stores atmos meta data.... There may be a solution somewhere on your discord, but so far I haven't found it.

[@michaelgwagner]

@thematsc I have not done that myself so I don’t really know. Ask Sam on the Discord.

[@thematsc]

Sam has a video that shows how to do it and it actually works well. Complicated and slow to setup but it works. I'm happy :-) Thanks for your input!!

[@SandervanderHeide]

You suggested also using Dolby Bridge. I tried using that as input to the Dolby Renderer, but the routing is really strange and it seems limited to a 7.1.2 bed. Is there a way to reroute the audio in Dolby Bridge? Also using the Loopback 16ch output into Dolby Renderer got me stuck at 7.1.2

[@michaelgwagner]

Why would you route into the renderer?

[@SandervanderHeide]

@@michaelgwagner well, I just want to use it for the monitor controller. Instantly solo all 4 top speakers is so easy in there. I could do this in my daw, but this seemed easier.

[@michaelgwagner]

Ok, I see. You can’t use it that way since the input channels in the renderer do not directly correspond to the speaker layout. You have the first 10 channels making up a 7.1.2 bed, everything else are object channels. If you need a virtual monitor controller, I highly recommend Ginger Audio Sphere.

[@SandervanderHeide]

@@michaelgwagner thanks, I’m going to try that.

[@jdisrael7607]

Does using "Loopback" replace having to purchase hardware like a "Intonato 24"? Also if the answer is yes, can I use it with Cubase 12 without issues?

[@michaelgwagner]

Not really. Loopback routes within your Mac. If you want to address an actual speaker system you would still need a solution in between. Ginger Audio Groundcontrol Sphere might be able to replace that though.

[@jdisrael7607]

@@michaelgwagner Thank you!

[@roberteismann1929]

How can a client check out a atmos mix?

[@michaelgwagner]

Usually with a quality control deliverable. You get that by exporting an mp4 from the renderer.

[@roberteismann1929]

@@michaelgwagner vielen Dank fuer die Info.

[@1loveMusic2003]

Does the renderer work on a new IPad?

[@michaelgwagner]

Nope, MacOS or, with limitations, Windows only.

[@1loveMusic2003]

Shit! Thanks for the info.@@michaelgwagner

[@i.a.m-poornasrikarm]

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