An Engineer's guide to Plastic in your garden.

[@ParkrosePermaculture]

Thanks so much for this video! This is such an important topic, and I’d love to see more engineers and permaculture folks tackle it. I recently did a video on laundry lint, which is a huge source of microplastic pollution and what we can do to mitigate putting synthetic laundry fibers into the environment. Plastic pollution isn’t going away anytime soon, we’ve got to find creative ways to deal with it.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

That's wonderful. I watched your video and it was absolutely fantastic. I think anyone reading this should go check it out. I'm going to pin this for exposure.

[@zachlloyd9392]

There's an arguement for going back to cotton if ever I heard one.

[@sjt4689]

Please, as I'm only seeing this now, could you post a link to this video? I have been looking but haven't found it on your channel yet. I stopped using all dryer sheets years ago. First started with wool balls, but now use just vinegar in the rinse cycle, which is a phenomenal softened & I've found also a great way to rinse our soap residue from clothing. But I hadn't even thought of plastics in laundry lint! Makes complete sense with all the synthetic clothing produced & worm now. I use washing soda, borax, as well as vinegar mentioned above, in my laundry, tried soap nuts but wasn't a fan, but have yet to find a really good laundry detergent which really cleans clothing which isn't based on toxic chemicals. I would love some recommendations from those who have found really good products which don't cost a fortune but still do a very good job cleaning clothing, especially since I live in the bush & get very dirty working outdoors. Preferably something which isn't adding more plastic to the waters & soil. I do make all of my own natural cleaners, however, for everything in the house & car. I also make a great deal of herbal medicines & personal care products & have been for many years. FYI witch hazel & colloidal silver mixed with essential oils makes a phenomenal deodorant. I also make my own toothpaste, facial masks, mists, natural perfumes & a lot more. I really don't miss all the mass manufactured crap at all, especially since the products I make are much better quality, and deliver much better results, without the additional toxin load. Thanks so much for this amazing video @Canadian Permaculture Legacy on the various plastics. I had some of the info but not a complete list. I find it's best to reuse my dark amber glass jars again & again for the many things I make whenever possible, but for gardening that isn't an option. You've got me rethinking even having a greenhouse next year, which I had planned on building myself very simply.

[@edibleacres]

A lot of really great info here!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Sean, appreciate you popping in :)

[@laurakolozsi1216]

Thanks for the breakdown! Saw the title and thought "This video is for me." I had asked you this question last year when I had inserted slow release water bottles in my garden. You directed me to do my research, and I did, removing the bottles shortly afterwards. This video brings all of the research into a nice little concise package. Thanks for that. Totally agree...got to look to the future. I may not be here, but my kids and their kids will. I want to tread softly and carefully.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Amazing. Thanks for posting.

[@tashasmith1234]

3 am!! Ah! That's divine inspiration! ✨️ I totally agree that off gasses are bad stuff. I am an artist that had to give up her medium (acrylic, glue) due to off gasses in the common products. Lots of products we shouldn't be using!

[@therealitinerantgardener594]

I bought several different brands of organic bags of soil last year and was amazed (and pissed) at the amount of plastic pieces I found in them. The ProMix brand was the one that didn't have any. I am being reminded of this as I refresh and reload my pots and grow bags for the 2021 season. I thought I pulled all the plastic out, but I am still finding some pieces.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Man, that's disgusting...

[@annburge291]

Great video. I find this topic really difficult. I look around and find myself swimming in plastic... plastic pipe to get water out of the well, plastic pipe for watering, plastic water tank, plastic bags being blown in, shade cloth covering windows, neighbours burning their rubbish (if there is one kind of plastic that I fear is plastic smoke, ... there is no end to the list... And I am trying to reduce my exposure. I think it is important to improve how we discard our plastic, what happens to plastics with natural disasters. One way to reduce plastic waste is grow our food in our gardens, avoid shopping whenever possible and think carefully about what we need and how to meet this need with alternatives to plastic. It's a frighteningly low amount needed of plastic residues to make hormonal changes and they bioaccumulate in our fat. It's in moments of stress that we are most intoxicated with our toxins because of them being released into the blood stream. Thanks for the video.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Indeed, a great post. It's really attacking us from every possible angle. It's possible this will be our generations "oops asbestos" thing. Although to be honest there will probably be several of those.

[@tashasmith1234]

We all need to bring conscious awareness to this and other similar issues. Yes, let's work to grow our own groceries!

[@Lauradicus]

Thanks for raising the subject. It is one that is very important, has had such an impact, continues to have an impact and needs to seriously be addressed. There are so many misconceptions about the safety of the material (no matter it’s components). We need to make informed conscious decisions every single day. Be aware. Educate yourself. Please don’t mess with cancer causing agents. Ever.

[@malloryyoung2310]

Thanks for taking the time to carefully edit your videos. I never feel the urge to skip ahead or put the video on 1.5x speed when watching your channel. PS your way of pronouncing "out" is really cute.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks! I'm getting a bit faster at it. I don't have something like Adobe Professional, so I do most of my editing on poorer quality editors, and it takes a bit longer. Adobe professional is really expensive!

[@jamesgaz788]

Still helpful today for those just starting

[@eryl_at_home]

Superbly helpful video! I'm planning sub irrigated container gardens (can't manage normal irrigation due to lack of water and health), and I was going to line them with pond liner (PVC). I'll go with IBCs instead which are high density polyethylene. I'd rather use no plastic, but it's the only way I can see to keep plants alive through summer and grow food. Thanks so much for this.

[@KKeefer]

This was SUPER HELPFUL! Thank You!

[@lornaschauseil9074]

Somewhat off topic but I am curious and forever cautious about new things the establishment says are fine. I have shied away from plastic containers for food since the late 70's when I started learning about organic and environment, although they are impossible to totally avoid in our society. I was not aware that recycle 2, 4, and 5 are somewhat save and was relieved to see that my milk cartons (miniature greenhouses) are safe to use. I use them for containers (small rocks and stuff), water buckets and scoops for various soil stuff I have. I have also not eaten a McDonalds anything in over 45 years (haven't missed it either). After 40 years of marriage I have finally convinced my husband to use glass in a microwave instead of plastic. So my question is about the new craze with silicone stuff. It is wonderful - can put it in the oven and bake on it - nothing sticks to it - easy to clean and I have a few things made of silicone. Mostly cooking mats and utensils but I see more and more of it coming out. Does silicone also leach out into places where I do not want it to be? I have often wondered about the long term effect it might have. As always a wonderful and enlightening video - thank you so much.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

That I don't know, I don't have any experience with it unfortunately. I agree with all the rest. We always find out this stuff is bad for us after we have already been exposed to it.

[@CharlieLemmink]

Thanks for the info! I was about to order some polypropylene deer fencing, but decided to refer back to this video to make sure that you approved. Much appreciated. I'm sure I'll refer back to this several times until I simply internalize all of the info. Hope you're doing well!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome stuff. Yeah, of all my videos this is probably the one that people should bookmark and come back to often.

[@ellie_5276]

Such a useful video thank you so much for sharing your expertise 😊

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ianlang9312]

This is really interesting and useful content. I will definitely keep this in mind when I can finally start gardening this year! I really have also enjoyed the game stop and crypto stuff. video variety is good. also excited for the tesla video you mentioned. My wife and I came so close to buying a model 3 but it was just a bit too much for us.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks! For the next few videos, I really want to finish up the land-selection video, then maybe do the Tesla one after.

[@dinosaur0073]

Very useful...thanks

[@sheraleethomas]

Extremely helpful, thanks!!!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad it helped!

[@mathsvideoshis5701]

Thanks for this video - a great overview. A few weeks ago I put hot water into a type-1 bottle used to transport drinking water and it shrunk to half the size immediately. Now I know why!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Eep!

[@tylerehrlich1471]

This has been a huge point of contention between me and all the "normie farmers." I get it, plastic is cheap and easy and blah blah...but think ahead even three years and you can see it is ALL already trash! I love your perspective! I too wake up at 3 and cannot sleep. Used to blame it on my cat, but now I'm the one waking him up!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Indeed, and the recycling stream itself is quite a lot of energy and pollution. I mean it's better than it filling landfills, but the best method is to use alternatives. People think that recycling plastics is really "green" but it really isn't.

[@kgagnon788]

On the road, and won't be able to catch this until way after the premier. Critical topic--thank you for addressing it--hope it goes big!! Only occasionally do I wish I had a cell phone, lol.

[@juliehorney995]

Wow, thanks. It's frightening what people use for planting these days. Tires? Run!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Very much! Plastic everywhere. Also railroad ties!!! Yikes

[@julie-annepineau4022]

Wow great info! Thank you!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Im-just-Stardust]

Your channel is really informative man, i'm learning so much

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks 😊

[@oscardevelopment]

This video was great thanks. Actually your videos are great so informative I really appreciate them. Since your talking about pollutants :) this is not on the topic of the video but I am always trying to find information on growing food by septic beds. If you ever find time to do a video on that subject that would be great. Anyways thanks you rock!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Sure. For now, just maximize distance from poop to food. So for example, lettuce and root veggies bad. Grapes, fine. Trees would be fine too but you don't want trees near weeping tiles. Not unless you hate yourself and want to create a future nightmare. (But as far as toxicity safety it would be the best... large distance from poop to root to trunk to fruit.)

[@nursenasdaq]

I am glad you covered this. I was looking at the worm compost systems where you burry a 5 gallon bucket with holes to throw your scraps...

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

That's totally okay... as long as the plastic is one of the safe types.

[@elmtree77]

Thank you! Very helpful information!

[@PaleGhost69]

Already had to reference this video again. I got my hands on some totes that I can convert into raised bed containers.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome 👌

[@therealitinerantgardener594]

I'm going to try Robbie and Gary's Easy Gardening tote, pot layering, and composting in place on my apartment balcony this year to free up space. I had an insane amount of grow bags and greenery and couldn't even sit out there last year. I had a neighbor stop by to tell me it all looked cool though. 😊

[@PaleGhost69]

@@therealitinerantgardener594 nice. I used Leon's design with apple juice jugs as a reservoir. I like robbies compost in place method. I've used it in pots a couple of times.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Oh wow that's amazing. Way to use every inch of space you can.

[@peterzenhorst930]

Very good video! Keep in mind that when any sort of plastic leaves the factory it actually still contains a lot of monomer and oligomer (short chain plastic). This wil evaporate over time. Most of these monomers (like styrene in PS) are not very healty. This process is what gives new cars their 'new car smell' and some people actually get sick when in/ around.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Great tip. These are also offgased at a higher rate based on temperature. So putting something like this in a greenhouse and then going inside the greenhouse, you basically make a "hotbox" of nasty chemicals.

[@peterzenhorst930]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I was actually researching materials for greenhouse for the new home. Glad I saw your video. As a chemist I know al the nasty stuf in plastics. But wasn't aware that poly carbonate was so bad. So I will probably go looking voor some insulated glass instead :)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It's weird too because so so so many greenhouses are made out of polycarbonate panels. Maybe I could be wrong, but I think the research showing how much these offgas at high temps make them a terrible choice for a greenhouse material. But I guess they work well, and most people who get cancer in their 60s may not attribute it to the greenhouse polycarbonate. That's the tricky thing with chronic issues though.

[@TheEmbrio]

Thanks ! Very informative !

[@TheLeahsKitchen]

Thank you for such useful information!

[@misatsundere399]

Excelente vídeo, claro e muito útil. Obrigada!

[@therealkrystalvintage]

Thankyou!!!!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

No worries!

[@loicleborgne8713]

Thx you, very interesting informations :)

[@vballboy11]

Thank you for the vid! All of them really! In regards to the plastic, is there any way you could comment or maybe even do a video on plastics as it relates to greenhouse products? The different panels and/or wrapping that people commonly use for low tunnels, high tunnels, caterpillar tunnels, etc. Thank you

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

They are pretty much in here. Most people use either the wrapping (which is LDPE type 4) or Polycarbonate (which is Type 7). IMO, use type 4.

[@myronplatte8354]

Man, you say fun-gee all the time! So glad you caught it this time. :)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

LOL Do I? How embarassing!

[@kathmandu1575]

Excellent video - thanks! Bottom line appears to be - avoid plastic.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

That's always a good play. When you have to use them, there are notes in the video about which ones are most stable when exposed to temperature, UV and water, which is typical gardening conditions.

[@d-sow-13]

Really informative, thanks for distilling this down! I've already noticed the original 3.5" starters I bought are grade '6' -__- will keep it all in mind moving forward for sure. Definitely interested in figuring out a cleaner greenhouse solution that also can get the benefits of the less weight, less reflectivity, and better scatter that folks get out of the current materials. Would also be great if there was a company that popped up specifically recycling greenhouse films :P PS waking up around 3 is a good thing for sure ;)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Indeed! This is one area I was really hoping someone would come in and say "I'm a materials engineer working with greenhouse plastics and here's more info on specifically the uses in greenhouses...". As much as I do know a lot about plastics, I'm not at the "dedicated my career specifically to plastics in greenhouse applications" level of knowledge. And on that - it would be a wonderful field to be researching, because a lot of our future food needs are likely going to be scaling upwards and not outwards (land use concerns). So I picture large scale vertical greenhouses are going to be a big deal in the future. It would be nice if we had a significant engineering effort into purpose-built materials specifically for that application.

[@d-sow-13]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Agreed it's definitely going to be a necessity coming up, also agreed haha I wish someone came in toutin' that info on here, I'll be sure to keep an eye on the comments though. Always surprised by what you can find in such great communities!

[@meemo32086]

That was excellent!

[@jeannechin5052]

Thanks! I'm learning a lot!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad to hear it!

[@Tisha554]

Thanks for this info.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching:)

[@jennifer6198]

Thanks. I should know better. I was looking at a 'cloche tunnel frame w corrugated polycarbonate' 🤢

[@janelle0018]

Well this puts the kibosh on my greenhouse but I'd rather be safe. Thanks for the info! :)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It doesn't have to. You could choose materials like Wood/metal structure and LDPE greenhouse clear plastic. That's a very stable option. Could also upcycle glass/wood. Very environmentally conscious and also safe.

[@kescah]

Thank you! This is great information. I"m going to join (low budget) as soon as I can get my card number changed on Google (low tech.) For your sleep issues, may I suggest 1 hour before bedtime take NAC 500mg (an amino acid from the health food store) and then followed 1/2 hour later with L-Tryptophan 1000 mg (another amino acid) or 2,000 mg if that doesn't do it. Followed up by actually going to bed. Natural, sweet sleep. It also helps with contentment, which helps me be willing to go to bed!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Right now I'm trying Chamomile tea. I will keep your suggestion in mind, but there's a bit of a thing that I'd rather not talk about (not personal for me, but my family in general) and I am VERY anti-meds. Like, I refuse to take tylenol for headaches. Because of this, I'm pretty unaware of any meds and their safety. Any chance you'd be able to give more info on that? It sounds like it's a natural thing. I'm just really sketched out about using a pill to solve a problem.

[@kescah]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I do not take pharmaceuticals either, if I can help it. It's very rare. The NAC and Tryptophan are food sourced: "Where is NAC sourced? These nutrients can be found in beans, lentils, spinach, bananas, salmon and tuna. While most protein-rich foods, such as chicken, turkey, yogurt, cheese, eggs, sunflower seeds and legumes, contain cysteine, some people choose to supplement with NAC to increase their cysteine intake." Top 9 Benefits of NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) - Healthlinewww.healthline.com › nutrition › nac-benefits You've likely heard of the tryptophan in turkey making you sleepy? I used to miss so much sleep, and this made all the difference in the world for me.

[@CarlosLuizSouza]

Eu aprovo, tudo que é para proteger, preservar e valorizar a natureza estou apoiando, muito bem, vamos juntos, abraços desde Brasil, Coisas do Souza.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Proteger a natureza é a única maneira. Obrigado por assistir, de um amigo no Canadá.

[@jaymestevens9816]

2,4,5, Stay alive!

[@that_auntceleste5848]

I've actually been chanting this in daily life since I've watched this video, when trying to remember whether to keep items for garden use 2, 4, 5 stay alive 1, 3, 6 make you sick

[@chadeller5588]

Well done!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Cheers

[@MsPicklesmom]

Thank you, so helpful!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thank you :)

[@MsPicklesmom]

Do you know much about the mushrooms that can break down plastics???

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

@@MsPicklesmom to be honest not a whole lot. Anytime I tried to learn more about it, I realized just how smart those people are! I can't follow half of it.

[@benjaminfleming2681]

Hey, Keith! Huge fan! I am building a small pond on my property, do you know if bentonite clay would be a more ecologically friendly approach than using a pond liner to seal the pond?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Absolutely. ...... Now that being said, I used an EPDM liner myself, because the problem with Bentonite is that it can crack. It's not a HUGE deal (very fixable) if your pond is very accessible. For mine, I have so many massive rocks (that I'll never be able to lift up, and the crack could be right under the rock), and the project was so massive that I didn't want to take the chance. With that being said, EPDM liners are EXTREMELY STABLE when not exposed to UV light. So as long as you cover every single square inch of liner with rocks and soil (clay), then you'll be totally fine. This is a "good use" for plastic, because it doesn't end up in a landfill, and for the entire duration of it's life, it's creating a wonderful ecosystem (which is sequestering carbon itself). I would say, of any possible use of plastic which is optimal, using an EPDM liner for a pond has got to be at the top of the list.

[@benjaminfleming2681]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you so much for the response!

[@Lauradicus]

Absolutely

[@marilenebeaulieu9727]

Ok, I hate you now! haha! joke! But yeah, I have to rethink my use of beer cups and the plastic thing where mushrooms come in for my seedlings! I love them since I can reuse them pretty often. I shared your video on a fb page and someone asked if we use the rectangular aluminium container instead, it would be better? Or alluminium can leach something also?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Alluminium is quite safe for the garden. It will "rust" creating alluminium oxate, but this is a very stable oxidation layer (which is just one of the reasons why it's so valuable as a construction material). As far as good uses for questionable plastic, starting seeds is the best use - because the time is relatively low until they are moved out into the garden. The only bad things about it is that they are typically placed on heating mats or in greenhouses (or hothouses) and any Phthalate leeching will be accelerated by temps. Also, the toxin is right in the root zone of the plants, so uptake by the plant is more likely. Again, this then comes down to a dose argument... just how much are you getting? That question there cannot be answered without a soil/plant test. But try to minimize it to the extent you can. I would say if you have another alternative, definitely consider it. Only because - why not. Hopefully you can still upcycle the material into something else, and at worst it can be recycled. Most townships will accept Type 6.

[@suebar5177]

Thanks for the info! You're a wealth of information lately 🤗 ? How would one know if their fabric pots are safe?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

You may be able to look up the product ID code, or manufacturer and get their spec-sheet. It may be on the listing if you bought off amazon. If not try to google the company name, fabric pot material and see if you can find any info. Some fabric pots are made out of woven fabric, but some a coated and some are straight up plastic fiber fabric.

[@suebar5177]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy great idea....thanks so much! I try to be mindful of plastic use in my garden/food forest...but it never occurred to me that these pots may present a problem.

[@TheGrasspond]

Excellent--thank you very much. I have an old logging road that goes to my orchard through my forest. There are some very muddy spots and I did some drainage ditches to fix but still the need for road fabric is really helpful. I am half done with the road improvements but now wondering about the road fabric. It is heavy duty polypropylene woven. Thoughts?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Should be fine. Try to avoid any root crops or excessive digging in the area of the fabric.

[@leoscheibelhut940]

I am returning to farming and plan to rotationally graze. Standard waterlines are PVC, not sure what the 100 to 500 gallon Rubbermaid tanks are made out of, what are my best cost effective options for a water system? My first year or two the waterline will be on the surface[shaded by grass] later I'll be burying it several feet deep to get below the Minnesota frostline. In past experience, the galvanized steel tanks can bust when they get frozen solid. Thank you for the warning against using plastic bottles as mini-green houses. Now I wish I'd been saving all my glass pickle jars.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I would talk to other farmers near you to see what they do. I haven't done large scale system like that, so I'm not an expert on it. I only like to give advice in areas that I have a lot of experience with.

[@leoscheibelhut940]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I was mostly asking about what plastics are the safest for use as a waterline.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Oh, most irrigation is either type 3, PVC, or type 4 low density polyethylene. Both are good. If it were me I would use LDPE

[@leoscheibelhut940]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you.

[@brian3524]

Great video and very much needed! Just to be clear, polycarbonate is used in greenhouse panels, so are you saying we should avoid using this highly praised greenhouse material? Is greenhouse plastic a better choice for greenhouses/hoophouses? Thank you! Diamond hands here as well !! : )

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I personally would yes. Polycarbonate offgases so much BPA, especially in greenhouse environments. Just my opinion though. I think the people who use it either don't know or don't care.

[@MsCaterific]

💜 What recycling number is the drip irrigation tubing made of? I can only speak for myself. This vid was so needed and so helpful. I've been asking myself about the whole 'plastic in the garden question' for about a year now and have found nothing on the topic until you. Thank you so much! With the polar vortex it's a 'feels like' -38 in Calgary tonight 🥶

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It can be either PVC or LDPE. The super flexible ones are PVC, and they are SUPER flexible because they use a TON of Phthalates plasticizer. (Yes that's bad). If you have a more rigid tubing, it's likely LDPE, and as far as safety, it's as safe as you can get and still be in flexible plastics versus say copper piping with spray/drip nozzles. Just my opinion, but if you have PVC irrigation tubing, throw it out. (Just make sure it is PVC and not LDPE, as the LDPE is pretty safe). But as far as PVC irrigation tubing, I don't want that stuff anywhere near food I consume.

[@MsCaterific]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you!

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

Wrt safety: some people care only about directly experienced effects in his/her lifetime. Personal health and finance is paramount. Some people want to leave the world as good or better than they found it. They work to minimize negative effects and promote positive effects. Environmental health and world peace is paramount.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Couldn't agree more.

[@donaldlawson2175]

Question: could you coat a schedule 40 pipe wth something ie. paint. Using to decompose comfrey and sting nettles separately.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Well, schedule is just the size of the pipe. You can have a schedule 40 iron pipe or a schedule 40 pve pipe, or a schedule 40 brass pipe, etc. If you are talking about a schedule 40 pvc pipe, I would swap that out for metal, or see if you can find some HDPE (type 2) pipe if you need to use plastic. I would not use PVC pipe personally, no. Alternatively you can try cPVC, The main difference between cPVC and PVC is the range of temperatures each is capable of withstanding. cPVC can handle temperatures up to 200° Fahrenheit, while PVC peaks at 140° Fahrenheit. PEX is another option. Note that for all these materials, even if they can withstand those temperatures, they will all still leech phphalates. Here's a good research study that quantifies it a bit: hero.epa.gov/hero/index.cfm/reference/details/reference_id/3859182. But if it's me? Just go with metal if you can. If you cannot, then go with PEX. I would avoid PVC and cPVC. The problem with PEX (and for anyone curious why it wasn't in this video) is that during manufacturing of PEX (polyethylene crosslink) the PEX becomes a thermoset, meaning it cannot be recycled. So upcycle it, but try not to buy any new PEX if you don't have to - because it's going to be around forever and ever.

[@Lauradicus]

Another thing to think about when it comes to PVC is that the phthalates can degrade other plastics. PVC hoops and row cover combinations spring to mind. Metal is a good option. But another thing to think about when using metal is how does it degrade. Rust is pretty obvious. Galvanized metal isn’t a good answer to that problem. The zinc used in that process leaches into the soil and water table, ends up in fresh water run off and into salt water (the eventual destination of all water) leaving a toxic trail the entire way. I opted for lead free copper tubing. When cooper oxidizes it can increase the degradation of most row cover materials. The best way to avoid oxidation is to create a barrier between the metal and water/air. So a coating of some sort. The most inert barrier which most people never think of is wax. Stable, easy to apply and cheap. I use a plumber’s candle.

[@chandrikatilwalli4741]

@@Lauradicus very good suggestion . Thanks for making more thoughtful in choices we make🙏

[@Lauradicus]

@@chandrikatilwalli4741 I’m happy to share my solutions. Thank you for your appreciation.

[@donaldlawson2175]

Thanks I will invest in the metal pipe for my project's Keep thinking... we can eventually make the world better.

[@mandersson6754]

Great summary, I hate to use even plastic fiber cloths and bird nets in my garden. Still, I use them due to late frost and high deer pressure. Anyone who knows some biodegradable alternatives to those, that could work well to use instead? About microplastics in soil, I have heard that they are not as harmful as they are in water, at least not in modest quantities. Some suggest that they even may have some positive effects as they absorb and buffers toxics and will substrate soil just as biochar does. We should not trust that too much, I think, but it is interesting.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

That's an interesting point about absorbing toxins. Never heard that, but chemically it does kind of make sense. These plastics are like giant bowls of spaghetti microscopically, and they tend to have a ton of bonding sites because of that. So I would think that could be true. Again, I'd rather have biochar in my soil than plastic though!

[@mandersson6754]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yea, hopefully it will not turn into an argument that we should start storing carbon in the form of plastics, which is also technically true.

[@Lauradicus]

Hmmm, biochar vs plastic. That choice should be a no brainer.

[@mandersson6754]

I want it out, but what about the plastics we have in society? Landfill, stored as bulk materials in construction work, or burning it as fuel? Any tips of bird nets or fiber cloths in non-plastic materials?

[@Lauradicus]

@@mandersson6754 There has been some progress in using fungi to process plastics. Fingers crossed.

[@musictech85]

Wow, I was thinking of making a green house with polycorbonate panels. Had no idea they were so bad. that's all I can find for ridgid clear roofing panels. Any ideas?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I'd go with wood/metal frame and then for the greenhouse material, either LDPE (type 4) greenhouse plastic, or upcycled windows? You may be able to find some PP (type 5) options also. I just like reducing future plastic waste as much as possible, and love the idea of upcycled windows/doors/etc.

[@musictech85]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks! Yeah, I was thinking about old windows. Just concerned about lead paint. Not a big fan of the plastic film. Tends to rip and cant handle much snow load.

[@PaleGhost69]

Ok and I'll raise you with "Garden in the Plastic" Because I dont have any other choice. **badum tsh**

[@Lauradicus]

There is always a choice

[@PaleGhost69]

@@Lauradicus I live in an apartment with only a small patio area to have a container garden. All of my containers have been given to me or I saved them from the dumpster. I could spend $100 for a 2 gallon clay pot but that would mean I wouldn't be able to support my family or save towards buying land. My "choice" is to use plastic to garden with or don't garden at all. That is no choice and to be honest, it's very rude and obnoxious to tell someone "there is always a choice" when you have zero knowledge of their situation. Do you tell paraplegic children they can walk if they only make the choice to walk? Do you tell depressed people "there is always a choice" when their only choice is to end it all? Do you tell someone who is abused and enslaved that THEY MADE A FKING CHOICE?????

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Just, as this video talks about, if we are forced to use plastics, try to focus on HPDE, LPDE, and PP.

[@PaleGhost69]

@@Lauradicus I cant respond to you anymore without triggering the algorithm. You are a disgusting excuse for a human being. Forcing pain upon your children for your own beliefs and feelings. That is abuse and I feel sorry for your son who has had to endure your torture.

[@Lauradicus]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy “He” became one due to over-exposure to the chemicals. It was relevant, just not thoroughly explained. Sorry about that. Back on topic now.

[@claudialandow1106]

Thank you for a great video! Question: Type 2, Type 4 and Type 5 plastics is any one of those more UV resistant? Or are they all UV resistant? Looking to re-purpose some things for the patio garden. Thank you!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yes and no. Those plastics are indeed more UV resistant, but no plastics are truly UV resistant. Stick to 2, 4 and 5 and you will be doing as good as you can. And you can be 99% sure that you are safe.

[@chompers11]

Looking at using #5 old kitten litter buckets for veggie container gardening, feeling ok after this video?! Thanks for this

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I wouldn't use anything that had kitty litter in it. I'm paranoid of toxoplasmosis.

[@chompers11]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy good call. How common is that? I haven't heard of it

[@chandrikatilwalli4741]

This real gardening info. I am curious about storing and freezing food in ziplock freezer bags . Are they safe?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Again, it's all about dose. Are they safe? Kinda. They are made from type 2 or 4, HDPE or LDPE. Because of this there are no BPAs, no phthalate concerns. They are as safe as you can get in the plastic world. However, they would still be prone to freeze/thaw cracking and ingesting macro-particles of plastic. Your body then tries to deal with it. Some of it gets broken apart via gastric acid (a VERY strong acid), and that stuff gets absorbed in your blood. Most of it gets pooped out. So, it's pretty safe, but if you can get some good glass dishes, you may want to do that instead. That being said, don't feel terrible if you do use it. For example, don't feel like you are going to imminently die from it. It's not killing you any faster than your deoderant or shampoo or soap is.

[@Lauradicus]

Food storage containers are relatively stable when used as intended. Yes, freezer bags are designed for a wide range of temps but are more stable when temps are stable. Putting hot food in plastic then putting it straight into the fridge or freezer isn’t as good as letting the food cool, putting it in the container then putting it in the freezer. It’s also better to thaw food in a non plastic container (we use glass bowls). Plastic ice trays are more likely to cause problems for you than freezer containers because typically people just twist the trays to release the ice breaking off micro bits each time. Each time it becomes more brittle. Then putting it in the high temps of the dishwasher breaks things down even faster. Glass is heavier, more expensive, susceptible to breakage and covers can be difficult to replace but overall it’s a much more responsible choice. Not just environmentally (it does last forever). When my husband was diagnosed with cancer we were horrified as to just how much exposure people in our society are regularly exposed to. Please be careful. It’s no joke.

[@chandrikatilwalli4741]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy , Thank you for your response. I feel little more educated about plastic . Feel little better, only little, about using my frozen homegrown veggies in ziplock bags. I am going to transition yo glass from this year. Plastic is everywhere. We are living , breathing and eating plastic. Don’t know how to break this vicious cycle. I thought I was doing a good thing in reusing ziplock bags and plastic containers , keeping out of the landfill and oceans. I did not realize, it breaks down easily and contaminates the food , with freezing and thawing. My gut has become the ultimate landfill! We are downing in plastic. Thank you for this valuable education . Just as important growing our food in our yards in organic , humane and compassionate way🙏🙏🙏

[@Lauradicus]

@@ediblelandscaping1504 Thanks Chris, I’ll check it out.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yeah don't stress about it, but also try to use these tips (2,4,5) to minimize dose. No reason not to. If you have stuff like pvc pipes, try to do what I suggested, keep support plants near them, keep lettuce and strawberries far away.

[@estherkim1892]

What recycle number are the kitchen wraps? Is it safe to use it as a cover for a tiny greenhouse? Thanks!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Cellophane? It is type 5, polypropylene.

[@HAYChloeDevon]

Can you comment on Polycarbonate some more. I was just making a propegator and was planning to use recycled polycarb as a insulation around the sides. This is making me think again.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Not much more to say other than it offgassed BPA like a monster. Avoid using it. BPAs are nasty.

[@twominutefoodforest165]

Awesome, thanks so much for the detailed explanation. What are your thoughts on polyurethane? I'd like to use it to extend the life of my wooden raised beds, but I want my beds to be compostable when they reach end of life in a few years. I was going to use boiled linseed oil on the inside, but I'm not sure what to use for an exterior protector.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Polyurethane is pretty harmless if it is allowed to cure properly. A good 3 days to a week minimum. Linseed oil is great, use that with no concerns.

[@akrealestatebroker]

Is using pvc pipe okay to hold up plastic covering in a raised garden bed okay if it doesn't touch soil? Thanks for sharing your knowledge and research you've done.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It not touching soil is ideal, but is it getting hot? Is it getting rained on? Is it humid in there? If so, phthalates could be getting picked up by the humidity and deposited in the soil, then taken up through lettuce, strawberries, etc. Again, in terms of dose, your body can actually handle this stuff, but who knows if the reason you get cancer in 20 years is because you used PVC here instead of something else. If it was up to me, since we know these things offgas phthalates, I would just use something else. For example, can you swap it out for metal instead? You can often pick up some metal for free. I would do that instead. Actually, I would use prunings of trees if I could as my first priority, but upcycling some metal is next best.

[@Lauradicus]

It can degrade row covers. It isn’t just an issue of water solubility or soil build up. Off gassing = gas build up in the air = affects plants too. They respire.

[@jaymestevens9816]

What type of plastic are seed starting trays? I've used toilet paper rolls because there free but they get moldy easy

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Depends. I've seen some that are 2, 4, 5 but also seen many that are 1.

[@Lauradicus]

Consider using soil blockers. They can be fussy and getting the blockers can be a bit speedy but well worth it. We have to start being responsible.

[@chandrikatilwalli4741]

@@Lauradicus totally agree with you Laura.

[@ThomiBMcIntyre]

Thank you! Very helpful. I have been saving milk cartons for starting seeds. They are coated with plastic, right? How safe is that when it ends up outdoors in the sun?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Hard to know without a picture. Some places the whole thing is plastic, some it's just cardboard with wax on it.

[@ramthian]

Me too.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching

[@ttb1513]

What does this mean for drip irrigation? I’ll look into it more. Also, if I was trying to lengthen the life of a wooden raised bed, from rotting quickly, is there a good liner to use against the soil contact? A good plastic liner? Or metal, I would guess aluminum. Excellent information. Helps in and out of the garden.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yeah, depends on the material. I would think its type 4. Again, stick with type 2,4,5. These lines get very hot. Heat plus direct water contact is concerning. The woodnon the bed rotting is actually a good thing, for the soil at least. Myself, I like to just use logs, as its great fungal food and habitat for bugs. You could use a metal liner. If you use plastic, type 2,4,5. Just make sure water can drain out, or you will drown your plants.

[@ttb1513]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks. Makes sense. On the bed liner: I am also concerned about whether a liner, only on the 4 bed walls, would trap moisture between the liner and pallet wood walls, causing them to rot faster, not slower. Beds would still have normal drainage through the entire bottom of the bed. Concerning drainage, I was thinking a foot high raised bed without a wooden wall liner would actually dry out faster than a similar bed submerged flush with the ground. Trying to avoid making nice looking beds that rot out in only a handful of years, instead of kinda twice that, ish. Yes, dense planting and mulch on the surface are definitely planned for soil health. A small amount of experience being scaled up here, so learning and trying to anticipate. Thanks for info about haskaps too. I am trying aurora, borealis, and honey bee varieties here in NH, zone 5a. Hoping they can thrive. Unusual to find a fruit plant that is so cold hardy. I have read of people having difficulty finding a variety that does not go dormant in early fall cold weather and then bud out in a fall warm spell only for these new growth shoots and buds to die over the winter. Not to mention finding a variety that does not bloom so early in the spring that remaining cold spells destroy the blossoms. I’ll learn, but it is a multi year journey to getting mature producing plants. What do you like to use haskaps for the most? Thanks again for sharing your plentiful ideas and experience. Much appreciated.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yeah, be careful about any advice I give for raised beds, etc, because I don't use them myself. I know a lot of people like the corrugated metal ones. I think they can tend to dry out faster though. For haskaps, I mostly forage them and just eat them as I walk about. A really nice tart berry. Quite enjoyable. The fact that they are so healthy makes them taste better. Haskap jam is also maybe my favorite jam.

[@zachlloyd9392]

So, what would you reccomend for greenhouse material? Glass? Not doable here in hail country. I was actually looking to build one, literally pricing them for purchase, with those twinwall polycarbonate panels 😧

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

To be honest, I'm not sure. Everything I read says that polycarbonate offgasses like a son-of-a. If I did one I'd probably use polypropylene but I know a lot of people want a more rigid structure. Maybe it's the case that as long as you have good ventillation in a polycarbonate greenhouse you are okay. Maybe they are coating in something that prevents the offgassing. I don't know. Take anything I said in this video with a grain of salt, it's just my opinion. I just couldn't find any good research where they tested it.

[@koryd9343]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy this makes little sense to me?!! do you have sources of this off gassing?

[@craigmetcalfe1749]

Hey Keith, your glasses make you look very bookish! Do they have lenses in them? After working years in television, I know that glass frames are often used as a prop. Thank you for making this video. I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping plastic out of my food forest until...I noticed a compost bin made out of plastic and a few leaf towers similarly made of plastic mesh to ensure aerobic activity. What do you recommend as a non-plastic approach to making compost and leaf mold? Stay safe and test negative!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Oh yeah, the glasses are real. I wear them for work and driving. For the composter, they are purpose built for this, and are almost exclusively Polyethylene (Type 2 or 4), so they are safe for the temps of a hot compost. The leaf mesh, I'd have to see it to know for sure, but as an example that orange snow fencing is also Polyethyelene type 4.

[@Lauradicus]

Hey Keith, is there a way to direct message you? TIA

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

You can email me at [e-mail]. I do get a lot of emails there though.

[@AlecMuller]

So just to make sure I understand you correctly: if you're glazing a greenhouse, polyethylene film (PE) is much better than polycarbonate?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

For safety, yes (no BPAs). Polycarbonate offgases tremendous amounts of BPAs. It's possible that a polycarb greenhouse WORKS better though. I don't know enough about greenhouse materials to talk about that side of it. But for people being inside, using the greenhouse, the low density polyethylene is very stable at high temps and high humidity.

[@kcoker9189]

I've heard of people double layering whatever plastic sheeting they're using and have a low energy blower push air in between the layers to increase its insulation. I've never tried it but could work

[@Ph0enixW0lf]

Me: -looks at bottom of water bottle I’ve been using for years- Water bottle: 7! Me: 😳

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Water for what? It may be okay for the application, as long as temps are kept low.

[@Ph0enixW0lf]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy lol my Nalgene that I drink out of while I’m at work.. and yes I’m binge watching your videos, lol

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Okay, it should be okay. Just don't put teas in there. Don't leave it out in the heat. Don't freeze it, etc.

[@aprilcharter9926]

Where does everyone buy their cold hardy fruit trees in Canada? Just a regular garden center? :)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I tend to give this info out to my consulting clients only, because the nurseries I use go out of stock really quickly. Out of respect to the people who pay for consultation, I try to give them the most value by not giving that info out. Now that being said, it's fairly easy to find some good nurseries with google. I have just found some incredible ones of the last 6 years of looking, who specialize in certain things. I end up using roughly 10 different nurseries for different things. One is very good at pushing zone on things, having cold hardy varieties of warmer plants. One is really good at very cheap (but high quality) young bare root trees. One is really good at larger older trees. One is really great at bushes. One is really great at wildflowers and native support plants, etc. It's some of the value I can pass on to consultation clients (see description in my videos for more info on that).

[@aprilcharter9926]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I can understand that! thank you for the reply :) I didn't know you do consultations, I'll check that out.

[@relaxingsounds3952]

So PVC bendy hoops to support row covers aren't safe to use? 😭 I've got a load of those in my veg patches at the moment. What's a good alternative then?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It's not so much that they aren't safe, because again, it's all about dose. To determine how much dose you are getting you would have to measure the off gassing, and that would be based on the manufacturing of them, the temperature and humidity they are experiencing, the airflow in the greenhouse, etc. Many factors. Then there's some questions whether phthalates are even toxic. You can find research on both sides of the "argument". For me, I'd just prefer to use something else, especially in high temp applications like a greenhouse. A good alternative is HDPE (2), PP (5), or some kind of metal like aluminum.

[@relaxingsounds3952]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks for the detailed reply! I was actually thinking of using galvanised metal instead, that has to be safer right?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yes, much better choice. That just my opinion though. Lead free copper is what I would consider ideal.

[@przybyla420]

Wood is a good alternative, that or rib bones from large animals. Scrounged metal may be more practical. The most important thing is not purchasing the pvc, if you scrounged it or reused it and it lost some nastiness to the garden, it at least provides a function, and it takes continual energy to run the landfill to keep the stuff from leaking out of it into the environment. So there is no clear cut answer to many of these questions.

[@mandersson6754]

Totally different topic but can and do you grow quince or medlar in your climate? I planted some last year and we are now down to -20 C here and I start to worry. We hit - 25 C every 10 year or so but you seem to hit those temperatures more frequently so just wondering?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I can. I'm not a huge fan of quince, but I'm thinking of getting some medlar.

[@mandersson6754]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Nothing my local nurseries would offer, but they seem to form cool little trees with funny looking fruits, so it is fun trying them. Some web nurseries say they are hardy throughout zone 5 at least, so I guess they should be fine here, do you have an even tougher zone?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I'm a zone colder. Are you Zone 5 US? Or zone 5 Canadian zone? I'm zone 4 Canadian, which isnlike zone 3 USDA.

[@mandersson6754]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I relate to US zone 5 when it comes to temperatures but I have a shorter growing season which means that not everything will ripen even if it will survive here. Quince might be a problem to get to ripen, at least every year, but I grow them mostly for ornamental values. Good to hear that they and medlar are both considered hardy even in your more extreme temperatures. Next year, I will plant a Mulberry Illinois Everbearing, and possibly some type of American persimmon cultivar. Any experience or "know how" about growing them in your conditions?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Last question is for persimmons? I'm not sure, I've only planted 1 but it has died to the ground each year. I moved it and try it in a microclimate. We will see.

[@Jim-uj3ty]

I have been storing my drinking water in polycarbonate in one gallon containers for years. In your opinion, is this safe?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yes. The 2 key factors are temperature and solar UV. As long as it's stored in a cool dark space you are good. However, common recommended practice is to empty and refill them every 6 months for taste reasons. So after 6 months, I would recommend using the water to water your gardens with, then refill them to store for your preps. But if you have them in a cool dark place, then water stored in polycarbonate material can essentially be stored indefinitely (in terms of safety).

[@Jim-uj3ty]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you for what you do. Love your approach.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate the comments too.

[@growshakephil]

So you’d skip type 6 for starting plants?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

I would yes. IF you are going to use it (beer cups or Styrofoam seed tray) then try to keep it in low temp conditions, and throw the soil out when you transplant. Putting it in a hot compost pile would help further break down the toxins. But, if you ask me, just use something else.

[@Lauradicus]

Definitely something I stay away from and encourage others to avoid. I personally think it should be outlawed.

[@growshakephil]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Wow that’s quite an indictment! They were type 6 cups I got from the dollar store, so the timing is good. I’ll stick to paper and yogurt containers for my transplants.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Just for anyojenelse reading this, double check your yogurt container. They are often type 5 (PP), but some are a mix of type 1 and 6.

[@Fractus]

I think what you're calling the recycling symbol is the resin identification number. Doesn't actually mean it can be recycled (so it's almost like a bullshit marketing trick), but people throw it in the recycling anyway..

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Indeed, and it depends on your local recycling program. 1 and 2 are the most commonly accepted recyclables. But it's not a bullshit marketing trick, it's an engineering item identification system. Technically all of them can be recycled, it just depends on the system that the municipality has to do it. Stuff like Polycarbonate is more expensive and requires different equipment.

[@sproutingresilience4787]

What plastics actually still use BPA’s water bottles no longer have BPA’s as the use of BPA has been restricted due to it’s toxicity. At least here in Canada.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

It's in the video, mostly type 7s now, but that still doesn't mean stuff like PETs (or PETE) are safe. They offgas a lot of phthalates and antimony. They are also the must susceptible to freeze/thaw cracking of microplastics, just because atomically they are like a giant plate of spaghetti with all these loose end-nooodles that can fracture off easily. In these cases, you can be ingesting large macro-particles which then get digested with gastic acid, turn into a plethora of nasty stuff in those chemical reactions, and enter directly into your bloodstream. Antimony itself is a bit contentious - you'll see some places saying it's safe(ish). I just think the jury is still out on it.

[@Lauradicus]

Environmentalists warn of alternatives to BPA and BPB. you take out one chemical component and have to replace it with something else that can perform the same function. The replacements are not well understood, not enough for me to take a risk long term regular use. Pass the glass please.

[@sproutingresilience4787]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy eeeee yeah I'd out antimony on the big no no list myself😅

[@sproutingresilience4787]

@@Lauradicus yes glass for all!

[@flatsville1]

Isn't there a ton of plastic in your wetland filter/pond/waterfall structure?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yep. But it's extremely stable, out of sun UV, low temp. It will last forever like this and slowly sink into the earth's surface, while not polluting waterways at all.

[@flatsville1]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I don't begrudge the use of poly prop pots, irrigation or landscape fab in garden projects by people trying to grow food or even other plastics by those who may be too poor to find stable plastics for their gardening efforts and can only use what the have at hand. Amazing what we can justify for faux wetland/pond/waterfall entertainment value v ag/food need value. Lot of anti-plastic rage out there right now. Something to think about.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Totally agree. I do just want to touch on a point about the pond here though. This pond here is absolutely not a backyard decoration. This pond is the beating heart of my ecosystem. It is water for birds, lizards, snakes, frogs, turtles. It is food for me (watercress, water Chestnut, sweet flag, hyttunias, and many more), it is a potential income stream with koi, it is a potential future protein farm with tilapia, it is habitat for water insects like dragonflies, it is nutrient rich water for innoculating biochar, it is water storage for prepping, water reliance for food forest and kitchen gardens I'm drought times, etc. This thing is decorative, sure, but that is reason 10 on the top 10 reasons why I built the pond.

[@flatsville1]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Much of what you describe can be accomplished with poured concrete including the faux top wetland basin & bottom pond. There might be some advantage to using liner for the waterfall drop run. I find the above ground drought control due to climate change and fish raising aspects confusing from an engineering perspective. Covered underground concrete structures (ex: cistern style) are excellent for drought water storage with virtually no loss due to sun/wind evaporation. Ultimately above ground, open air water storage won't provide much of a margin/cushion if rain becomes infrequent or your well runs dry due to climate change. You would need at minimum 5 ft. depth (likely deeper) & not blocked to depth by aqua boxes covered with rocks to raise koi fish outdoors in the Canadian winter in the lower pond basin so the fish could dive down to depth and survive. Talapia are far less cold hardy and more temperature sensitive. Death occurs in water below 50 °F (10 °C). Given that concrete contains rock aggregates & sand, should it degrade, crack & sink into the earth at some far future date, it stands a much better chance of not becoming a water & plant root infiltration obstruction than plastic pond liner mixed with a mass of plastic aqua boxes which could take 20-30 + yrs to degrade while it leaches. I live in a temperate area with freeze/thaw cycles with numerous concrete water features and covered water containment structures that are 100+ yrs old in their original working condition with only minor repair. Ferrorock holds even more promise for durability with the added bonus as an actual carbon capture sink. The jury is still out.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Poured concrete has a massively higher environmental footprint than an EPDM liner... It also is susceptible to cracking. Pouring concrete on a hill is a really terrible idea from a structural strength standpoint, it is almost certain to crack. I would never do this pond as poured concrete.

[@abdullahvonsnarkenson2442]

This plastic photo with child look like my home. You US send all your garbarge here. Not you. You hero. Please no more plastic. Abdullah out.

[@growshakephil]

I’m involved with a permaculture club group in the Clubhouse app. Would you be interested in coming in to speak sometime? We’d love to hear your perspective.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

To be honest, I am stretched thin right now. Work, kids, videos, replying to all comments, also have consultation jobs coming in now. I feel like I'm burning the candle at both ends!

[@SuperHealthychoices]

Good for you, and we all might want to care, especially if there is such a thing as karma and reincarnation! :)

[@przybyla420]

Guess which industry the algorithm paired this video with...

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Oh man, I have no idea? You are talking about adds that were played? I'm so curious. What did you get? Oh great google Gods, what did you decide to pair a video about reducing plastic waste with? Tupperware adds?

[@przybyla420]

Close haha. I can’t remember exactly, two ads and both were for big plastic companies. No products, kind of weird. More PR than advertising I suppose. Thanks for the valuable summary, although I’m starting to expect that!

[@miqf914]

LOL. I got the "scientific" touting of a pregnancy test and a 2 min+ infomercial about working out.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

@Miq F LOL google algorithm you are drunk, go home.

[@jadedgramma]

What a out using plastic for flowers, not food?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

If you aren't eating it, and you aren't in a greenhouse where you are breathing in offgassing toxins like BPA, then you still have leeching toxins into the air and ground, and thus water aquifers. So I would still say to stick with type 2,4,5. And for all plastics, we still have the waste issues. And even recycling brings a lot of pollution with it. So its a matter of priorities. 1) reduce as low as possible 2) use type 2,4,5 when possible, for those that you must use. 3) reuse what you can 4) reecycle waste Try to focus on number 1 though. Often we just skip 1-3 and hope 4 is good enough, and the rest ends up in landfills or oceans. :(

[@jadedgramma]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you for your reply. We recycle everything and I don't use any plastic in my yard or garden but this year thought about starting flowers-saving some of the $500-1000 usually spent on landscaping. Agree with your views, facts re:plastic and pollution. 4Ocean is great ocean clean up group

[@Crotchapples]

I initially came to hear the finance stuff but I'm staying for the gardening.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Well, that's the best outcome of all. FYI, in terms of ROI, I'm not sure there's an investment that beats a raspberry cane. Sure you won't make 2 mil on them, but % wise, spending $1 in a fall sale for a cane that will replicate itself 400% each year, and ALSO give you fresh raspberries (that you eat - saving money - or, sell) it's a pretty nutty investment. Also, doing something like buying some cheap land out (as far as you are willing to drive, to get the price as low as possible) then planting 700-1000 black walnut trees per acre is like a free retirement. Then, do something like Black walnut, but drop down oak logs with shitake/oyster mushrooms innoculated in them. Travel up 2-3 times per season to go collect a few thousand dollars of mushrooms to sell. Yeah, it can be GREAT money - saving nature. Nature does this "printing free money/food" thing really well. At least when we aren't clearcutting her down.

[@chandrikatilwalli4741]

This is the best retirement plan ever. No financial consultant can plan this for you. You working with nature , as part of nature , with peaceful coexistence .” Do no harm” should our Mantra.

[@mourlyvold7655]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Quote: "My bank is my woodpile and my rootcellar". You're right on point in what real (intergenerational) capital entails, and if you're willing to take a compliment, mighty cute as well. (Oh,oh, here come the youtube warriors 😎) I just discovered your channel via a response you made on Diego Footer's channel to a video on the construction of a bio-reactor. Glossing over it, the content of your channel looks very promising! Subscribed... Greetings from the Netherlands.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Mourly! Thanks for watching :) I appreciate the compliment! Lol

[@mourlyvold7655]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 👍