An Infinity Player's Guide to Conquest (or, a discussion of reactivity in wargaming)

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[@R0bertShepherd]

Today we're doing a video explaining Conquest from the Infinity perspective and vice versa, and how the two games are a study in contrast with regards to the idea of reactivity. Infinity is hugely reactive, and Conquest hugely constrains reactivity, which leads to very different (and interesting) play experiences.

[@Donnergraf]

Imagine not having your army on the table turn 3 . Laughs in nords

[@SebastianPirling]

Wow, that is like an intercultural military strategic thinking seminar on a wargaming manoeuvre. Thanks for the insights - I love both Conquest and Infinity and feel exactly the same, my brain being tickled in different but equally demanding ways. Great talk! (And I need to play Infinity again …)

[@OliverOusley]

Now I'm looking heavily into Conquest. Thanks Rob

[@MMMayhem]

fascinating look at wargame design!

[@withthelightsout5258]

Alright alright, you've convinced me on Conquest. I'm wondering if you would ever make a video on why someone should pick up infinity, specifically targeted towards people who've never played wargames before. The info was presented so well here, I'd love to have a resource like it to show my friends from other hobbies.

[@zephyrrrr4813]

More stuff in this train wpuld be awesome

[@genedean5761]

You are the only person who has ever made me want to play Conquest.

[@brianjones5136]

Thoughtful and compelling breakdown; nicely said!

[@RattlerNxt]

I’ve been playing Infinity for a decade and throughout I have found a game to pair with it that is different. I’ve picked up Nords win the last 6 months to pair with my Infinity for this reason. They do scratch different and enjoyable itches.

[@owenyates6046]

Always love hearing your takes on the state of wargaming. Would happily watch more of these!

[@RattlerNxt]

What a great idea on a crossover

[@gavinbateman1645]

Gonna tag KZbin for my cut for using my likeness at 9:24

[@CarlosUnbound]

Nice discussion! Keep them coming!

[@zephyrrrr4813]

This is so amazing

[@RalfSchemmann]

Excellent look at the two games, thank you for that. Interestingly what you say about how Conquest plays reminds me very much of Runewars, the game that got me into miniature wargames in a big way. Instead of organizing your activation cards, there you give orders including their initiative on command dials alike to X-Wing. It's also very much about anticipating your opponent's strategy and orders of the turn.

[@R0bertShepherd]

The X-Wing play system is an incredibly smart bit of design.

[@RalfSchemmann]

@@R0bertShepherd Indeed, and it worked great in a rank & flank system as well. Not super "realistic", but excellent gameplay results.

[@sdahl468]

Both cool and interesting, Thanks.

[@LARPBeard]

very smart video! more of these please!

[@andrewliauw]

Smashing presentation, mate! Very well thought out. I, too, found Infinity N4 before discovering Conquest. I agree with everything you presented, loved the way you said that Conquest tests strategic foresight. I think you would agree that most wargames tests strategic foresight, but Conquest stretches foresight by forcing you to stacking your command deck and by limiting movement/maneuvers, and to a (slightly) lesser degree by rolling for deployment. My question for you is: Sun Tzu says know yourself and know your enemy and you will not lose in a hundred battles, but which game is more impacted by your knowledge/familiarity/ignorance of the opposition faction? Thanks. Love your content.

[@R0bertShepherd]

In response to your question, it's *very* close. I think both games have a few factions where if you don't know what's coming, you're deep in trouble. I think at this point the answer is Infinity, but only because there's a larger number of factions (a much larger number). I think once Conquest catches up the needle will swing back.

[@AraigumaTV]

As an Infinity player, maybe this will get me into a rank-and-flank game. If you have some pointers for starting Conquest, I'm happy to hear about it :)

[@R0bertShepherd]

The first step obviously is finding (or helping build) a local community. In terms of getting into conquest once you have some folks to play with, I'd say the following: 1. it's ok to start small. Conquest scales down very well from a full 2,000pt game and still feels complete and recognisable as low as ~1,250pts and demos well at even smaller scales (about 800pts is good for a demo). 2. if you can't find a local distributor, the Para Bellum e-store is both reliable and ships insanely fast, especially if you're outside places like the EU and united states (I'm in Australia and by god they get stuff to us quick). You can almost always find a discount code for it as well. If nothing else, find any Goonhammer article on Conquest and there'll be a 10% discount code at the bottom of the article. 3. usual rules for picking an army apply - vibes first, mechanics second. But still, at minimum go and read the army-wide special rules before you buy in, because Conquest factions range in complexity and you should know what you're looking for there. I could put together a video guide on this if there was interest with an elevator pitch for each faction? 4. conquest plays slower and with a more dramatic arc than infinity (infinity is sharp, punchy and dramatic; conquest has rising action, climax and denouncement built into the game flow). Particularly while you're learning, games will take you longer than you expect. Aim for games taking 2hrs once you're proficient but expect them to take longer when you're learning. 5. be aware that conquest model assembly is going to be of variable difficulty. This is a company that's literally learned their business from scratch over a few years. The sculpts are all pretty good but the way they cut sprues for assembly has progressed a lot since they began. The earlier stuff can be a slog to assemble (dweghom infantry kits in particular for example), which for some people isn't a challenge but if that's not a part of the hobby you enjoy, look to the newer models or newer factions.

[@AraigumaTV]

@@R0bertShepherd thank you so much! Regarding 3) I'm very interested in hearing a faction elevator pitch by you! There is a reason your channel has become my main source for Infinity content: I like your style and value your thoughts on the game.

[@thelordkragan1888]

@@AraigumaTV Actually, where are you from? The best way to start is to locate a local player or vanguard (the warcors) and ask them for a demo. Then, they can help you out.

[@AlitarS]

Question about your point on strategic foresight: a lot of hex and chit wargames use a somewhat similar activation to Conquest, but instead of a set order, it's random drawing from a deck of cards (or a cup of chits). They do this to simulate chaos and uncertainty of the battlefield and the break of chain of command. What do you think of these systems compared to Conquest? Anything they can teach a player (particularly to an Infinity player)?

[@R0bertShepherd]

Games like this are actually much more about reactivity and in particular making the best of a chaotic environment. They have a lot to teach about managing imperfect situations.

[@AlitarS]

@@R0bertShepherd Thanks for your answer! And for all the great content you post.

[@HasteHobbies]

enjoyed!

[@Catspaw86]

What would a game of Infinity look like if both players generated orders for round 1, then spent them in alternating turns. 🤔 Keeping the ARO system active, of course.

[@R0bertShepherd]

I thought about this in the run up to the video, actually. I suspect it'd be a hot mess and would potentially make fireteams horrifyingly hard to play, but it could still actually work (just... chaotically).

[@Catspaw86]

Your comment about 'real-time' is what sparked the thought. It might be fun as a limited game mode, since they're looking for novelty and reinforcements seems to have fallen a little flat. Or it could be, as you say, chaos... may be worth a coffee to explore 😅

[@sebbychou]

Have you tried SAGA? Seems to overlap in the venn diagram but about using global environmental abilities over troopers with special abilities. (Edit: also damn you for getting me hyped for a game I was trying really hard to not learn about because I knew I'd be sold on it)

[@R0bertShepherd]

Just a tiny bit - it's primarily historic so doesn't vibe quite as much with me but I have a very good friend who plays it (but is currently overseas so my exposure remains limited).

[@sebbychou]

@@R0bertShepherd Yeah I wasn't sold at all at first but then turns it's not "historical" in the normal way: It's historical in the sense that you're actually playing as a Skald retelling the Great Saga of your lord (think of it as a viking rap battle between two storytellers), with all the fantastical embellishment that it implies. (Normal mundane soldiers in a bigger-than-life moment) So for exemple, Vikings gets an ability that narrates a blizzard, and since you're MANLY SONS OF THE NORTH you laugh at the cold! But your pathetic opponents are frostbitten, exhausted and panicked at your seemingly supernatural endurance. Which is really funny with things like if you have a Bard in your army, which is an otherwise pretty useless trooper, the story is more credible since "you were there, you saw it in person" and thus it gives you more control over the narrative!

[@R0bertShepherd]

@@sebbychou that sounds like something I'd like to look at when my friend returns from overseas :)

[@sebbychou]

@@R0bertShepherd Good, now we're even =P

[@boskvonlivingdreams4269]

Good video! Very well explained. I like videos like this when I'm in the mood for them. 20 minutes is long enough for me. Just curious: How would you rank "Song of Ice and Fire" on your skale?

[@R0bertShepherd]

Song of Ice and Fire is secretly a skirmish game pretending to be a rank-and-flank. It plays fast, fluidly and offers players a lot of freedom, which in practice makes it far far closer to Infinity despite *looking* like it's a more ponderous rank-and-flank.

[@boskvonlivingdreams4269]

@@R0bertShepherd Thank you!

[@MrLeviuss]

Vaul, u uploaded video on a wrong channel

[@Gormthestorm]

The universe is a bit weird sometimes. I just went to my new FLGS and was looking at Wadrhun starter kit this week. Thank you for the in-depth discussion between the games. Have you played the first blood rule set much? Any major differences that change your thoughts?

[@R0bertShepherd]

First Blood is an entirely separate game - effectively a skirmish wargame set in the Conquest universe using Conquest models. But since I play Infinity (and potentially Warcrow in future), a skirmish wargame wasn't something I was looking for as much as a proper rank-and-flank. However I am interested in First Blood as part of a linked mission / campaign system for Conquest, where First Blood games link into full Conquest games. I'm hoping to get to that at some point :)

[@bedwyr84]

Rob, mate, I don't know what line of work you're in.... But if you're not getting paid for your ability to digest a subject and present it in a compelling format to an audience.... Well, you're selling yourself short.

[@bedwyr84]

P.s. I might just take OODA loop to work.