An Obvious Error in the Bible - Bart Ehrman

Clip taken from Within Reason episode 49 with Bart Ehrman: • What Really Happened o...
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[@CosmicSkeptic]

Watch the full episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKS8qGSOZbOrotEsi=4PTwFXUqRPqX31c9

[@JohnQTaxpayer.]

You should bring on InspiringPhilosophy to your show: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJTPdaulnJ5oec0 Additional evidence also seems to suggest that Quirinius served as governor twice which would then put him in an official position over Syria to enact the census of Luke 2:2. In 1784, a Latin inscription was discovered near Tivoli, located about twenty miles east of Rome. It is known as the Lapis Tiburtinus inscription, and according to Jack Finegan it, “…contains the statement of a high Roman official that when he became governor of Syria he entered the office for the second time (Latin, iterum). It has even been thought that this personage might have been Quirinius…”[7]

[@stevegovea1]

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Would you or have you already considered doing video or videos of how mental illnesses play into philosophy and religion. I would argue that those with mental illnesses are evidence of no god.

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

An ERROR in the Bible?! You blasphemous punk you!!

[@nothingelsetolose7661]

This one is so easy to explain I don't know how you guys don't understand this but truly every word was inspired by the word of God. God had Men write this down In order to preserve the heptadic structure, While giving the Overall general Time period Of when Joseph made his trip Back to Bethlehem God could not record it linguistically In such a way that would retain The Heptadic Structure of perfect sevens in the Bible So obviously it had to be recorded in this manner. Of course you would have to be aware of Dr Ivan Panin's Heptadic Numerical Structure code At the age of 22 he emigrated to the United States and entered Harvard University, where he spent four years, learning Greek and Hebrew, and graduating in 1882 with a Master of Literary Criticism.

[@stevegovea1]

@nothingelsetolose7661 So, maintaining slavery was inspired by god. 🤦‍♂️ What it comes down to is that why god didn't send down a book he wrote himself...so there is no interpretation or a hundred religions or branches.

[@bass-tones]

For me, it wasn't that I was afraid of going to hell if I stopped believing in the inerrancy of the Bible. It was that I (rightfully) recognized that as soon as I acknowledged there was even a single factual error, there was no longer any reason to think the Bible was a special book. It would have led to me wondering about every other verse as well. If it's possible for just one verse to be wrong, there's zero reason to think that specifically would be the only verse in the entire book that contains an error. I had subconsciously recognized that if I had acknowledged even a single error in the bible, my faith would crumble, and when you're in that deep your brain does everything it can to stop you from threatening fundamental beliefs like this.

[@utopiabuster]

The only problem is that it's not an error.

[@im-not-alone5587]

I am Christian... I think there's no reason to deny that this verse contains an erroneous claim. I tried to think about what was the conclusion of acknowledging such a fact and I came to somewhat the same conclusion as you. How should I tell the difference between what is erroneous or true from now on... I'll continue my quest but it's... Such a drag...

[@mertonhirsch4734]

Also, the Gospels don't claim to be historically accurate, they claim to be accurate recounting of what was told to the writers.

[@scoobydoo9579]

Awesome insight. The odd thing is that if the Bible is so crucial, then Jesus would have instructed his disciples to write more. None of the disciples ever claimed they were ordered by Jesus to write the Bible (except for the Book of Revelation) -- instead, they (including Paul) were all explicitly instructed by Jesus to preach and spread the Gospel (aka good news that Salvation is through Jesus Christ). Although Jesus did not refute anything of the Old Testament, he often challenged the literal interpretations many times (e.g., his view on Sabbath, stoning, definition of adultery, etc.). The logical conclusion of Christians must therefore be that the Bible is a guidepost and not literal (as Jesus didn't take it literal -- in fact, he was almost never literal in his teachings -- even the Book of Revelation is as abstract as can be).

[@gandalainsley6467]

Verses themselves have no problem there. Translations sometimes do though. I am in a good position where I don't have to question if bible is just a made up book . I just need to look deeper so I find the thing that made no sense.

[@micahhonig1575]

Just want to say I appreciate the attitude this channel has taken towards Christians who genuinely want to follow Christ while trying to be honest, open minded, and loving to others. Engaging with your content helps me think critically without feeling like I need to fight. Consider my raised fists lowered.

[@ihatespam2]

I have a hard time seeing anything in the Bible that’s ethical that a five year old doesn’t know. Jesus is god, he said every word is correct in the OT, and yet Yahweh drowns babies because he don’t like the parents. He ordered the murder of and genocide of entire towns filled with women and children. I can’t hold on to a teacher, be he, divine or not, who supports such horrors.

[@racerx4152]

ehrman is not a good source to base any belief on. endless nonsense.

[@talyahr3302]

Nice! As an ex-christian, now Unitarian I hope your open mindedness helps you continue to grow 🙏🏾

[@machtnichtsseimann]

As a Christian, having chosen to listen to individuals like Bart Ehrman, to delve into deeper questions about the Bible, Church History, Theology, it has been profoundly freeing to wrestle with God over doubts and step into greater intellectual honesty. It if looks like an error in the Bible, then at least be honest with oneself rather than bow to mere peer pressure along Fundamentalist lines. That includes peer pressure as well from the Liberal/Progressive side of the Church. We're human, we understand in part, and yet in my experience God has been very open and loving along the Path of Salvation. We are to worship Him with our minds as well as our hearts, soul and strength, aren't we? Critical thinking isn't a sin, but a fine compliment along with Trust/Faith.

[@samwize28]

@@machtnichtsseimann genuine question sorry - but why should the god from the bible be worthy of trust/faith, when he is 100% responsible for so much wrong doing? (if we are to believe that everything written in the bible happened and was written by god)?

[@Rhewin]

So many people here in the comments are missing a big point. Bart is arguing against a fundamentalist literal interpretation of the Bible. This is a view that the Bible has no errors at all. He himself has said multiple times that the Bible having errors doesn’t mean you shouldn’t believe. He does not, but he has no interest in de-converting people.

[@elias8141]

Exactly, infact if the Bible didn’t have errors I would question its validity as a historical document

[@t.d6379]

Yea right 😂

[@Rhewin]

@@t.d6379 do you also think Dale Allison wants to de-convert people because he also says that the Bible contains errors, additions, and contradictions?

[@t.d6379]

@Rhewin de-convert 🤣 do you mean revert? We have words for what you're trying to say you do not have to make words up.

[@Rhewin]

@@t.d6379 insert whatever phrasing makes you happy, just answer the question.

[@peterevensen]

Archeologist William Ramsey has found inscriptions that show that Quirinius was the military governor in Syria from 12 BC to 16 AD, although his rule has some brief interruptions. At the time of Jesus birth, Varus was the governor of Syria, but Quirinius controlled the armies and directed the foreign policy of Syria. It was thus that he supervised the enrollment for taxation also in the kingdom of Herod.

[@Samuelh777]

Correct. Ramsay's studies in Asia Minor led him to accept the trustworthiness of Luke's account. Also Bart didn't mention the Fragment of the tomb inscription of Quirinius found in 1764. In view of the meticulous care taken by Luke the historian, it would be unreasonable to accuse him of such anachronism. And indeed, archaeology has proved Luke right. A stone fragment discovered in Tivoli (near Rome) in 1764 bears an inscription in honor of a Roman politician who was twice governor of Syria and Phoenicia under Augustus. The official's name is not on the fragment, but among the merits he listed are details that, as far as we know, apply to none other than Quirinius. He was therefore twice governor of Syria. He was probably military governor at the same time as Varus was civil governor there according to historiography. The inscription, which was discovered near Tivoli in 1764, probably belongs to the tomb of Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, "proconsul" (governor) of Asia and "legatus divi Augusti" (imperial official) of Syria and Phoenicia under Emperor Augustus (27 BC - 14 AD). The inscription in question with the expression "leg(atus) ... iterum" ("legatus ... twice") suggests that Quirinius had already held another office in Syria earlier: this would explain why he enjoyed such a high reputation among the population, and consequently also reduce the supposed discrepancy between the historical sources and the passage from the Gospel of Luke.

[@rsmlinar1720]

Im commenting amd liking couse this need too be higher up in comment section if we are actually searching for the truth. Thanks for the data from and theist agnostic (aka i still have a long way either way)

[@nathanashley5260]

Thanks

[@charles13773]

Thanks

[@xpusostomos]

Clearly no inscription says he was from 12Bc to 16AD because Bc and AD didn't exist.

[@feliped2443]

Agreed - it doesn't matter about the error, what many 'Christians' have failed to do over the last 2000 years is to embody the message of Christ that come from the Gospels, that's the point.

[@utopiabuster]

Right, And, you're an expert in what embodies the message of Christ. Can you please share? Generalities are fallacious.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

Let’s see you try to embody Christ’s message

[@austinl4947]

​@utopiabuster uh the Crusades? It's pretty obvious that the church has failed catastrophically failed to live up to the message of Jesus

[@andrewvandyk]

Difficult to embody the message of Christ when it demands perfection, as He was.

[@johnbrion4565]

Actually the Catholic Church which is the true church of Christ and the largest in the world has no issue with such discrepancies and has never denied the human component of scripture. As by infallible word of God we mean the Bible is inspired by God and the books of scripture “firmly, faithfully and without error teach that truth, which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to be confided to the sacred scriptures.” Since such an error has no bearing on matters of salvation it’s insignificant and in no way refutes the truth of the Bible. Important for people to understand but people like Ehrman come from an evangelical Protestant background and don’t even realize the Catholic Church has a much more mature and reasonable approach to scripture and other religious issues.

[@noobagooba4131]

Hey Alex, great stuff again. I wanted to ask if you could make a video reviewing whether or not the Bible states that life begins at conception, going over specific examples. Cheers!

[@thegreatrest-exslave-slave9450]

I love these discussions. Church life can be tough for anyone with an enquiring mind. It's lovely to spend time with people who just want the truth.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trahs family who raised so trashy abnd sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later.

[@MrLaughingcorpse]

The people doing the video were not even there. Luke was but you decide to believe them.

[@poke_warrior]

@@MrLaughingcorpse Luke was there? How does that work exactly when the Gospel of Luke was written 85-110 C.E.? What do you say of the evidence that exists for it continuing to be altered into the 2nd century? You don't think it's possible that whoever wrote the Gospel of Luke fabricated events, embellished details (either intentionally or out of ignorance) in response to a growing Christian population in need of stimulation?

[@MrLaughingcorpse]

@@poke_warrior So now you are claiming it was altered but the so called error wasn't fixed. Right....

[@poke_warrior]

@@MrLaughingcorpse Huh? Think about what you're saying here. You said "Luke was there". Do you even realize that Luke wasn't even likely the author (there were likely multiple authors) name? Do you realize that the Gospel of Luke was written some 80+ years after the events took place? Do you realize everyone was likely dead from that time which was being written about? How are alterations made in the 2nd century any more valid of a "first hand experience" than today? Our understanding of forensics is magnitudes higher than the 2nd century (especially since it didn't even exist at that point). I have no idea how, or what conclusions of good evidence you're deriving from the Gospel of Luke here..

[@jimnewl]

From Catholic Answers: In his book Who Was Jesus? the former Anglican bishop N. T Wright states: The question of Quirinius and his census is an old chestnut, requiring a good knowledge of Greek. It depends on the meaning of the word protos, which usually means ‘first’. Thus most translations of Luke 2.2 read ‘this was the first [protos] census, when Quirinius was governor of Syria’, or something like that. But in the Greek of the time, as the standard major Greek lexicons point out, the word protos came sometimes to be used to mean ‘before’, when followed (as this is) by the genitive case (p. 89). The genitive case is a grammatical feature in Greek. It is often used to indicate possession (as in “Jesus’ disciples”) or origin (as in “Jesus of Nazareth”). Wright, however, is pointing to a special use of the genitive when it follows the word protos and protos ends up meaning “before.” He writes: A good example is in John 1.15, where John the Baptist says of Jesus ‘he was before me’, with the Greek being again protos followed by the genitive of ‘me’. In a footnote, Wright continues: The phrase is repeated in John 1.30; compare also 15.18, where Jesus says ‘the world hated me before [it hated] you’, where again the Greek is protos with the genitive. Other references, in biblical and non-biblical literature of the period, may be found in the Greek Lexicon of Liddell and Scott (Oxford: OUP, 1940), p. 1535, and the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament of W . Bauer, revised and edited by Arndt, Gingrich and Danker (Chicago: University of Chicago Press), pp. 725f. 19 . This solution has been advanced by various scholars, including, interestingly, William Temple in his Readings in St John’s Gospel (London: Macmillan, 1945), p. 17; cf. most recently John Nolland, Luke 1-9: 20 (Dallas: Word Books, 1989), pp. 101f. Wright’s Solution Wright then explains how this can relate to the enrollment of Quirinius: I suggest, therefore, that actually the most natural reading of the verse is: “This census took place before the time when Quirinius was governor of Syria.” --------_-------- The article goes on to address objections to this explanation which you can read by going to the Catholic Answers site. The point is, this is a perfectly serviceable explanation for the apparent contradiction, yet if you just listen to Ehrman, he's never going to tell you such an explanation exists.

[@Rhewin]

The NRSV translation still uses “first.” This translation is the result of years of the world’s leading Biblical scholars working together, most of them Christian themselves. They went verse by verse in committee, with leading Biblical experts cross examining every possible meaning. Ehrman doesn’t mention this alternative explanation for two reasons: one, it doesn’t match what leading experts believe is the proper translation. Two, he’s arguing against a fundamental literal view of the Bible. Catholics typically don’t share that view.

[@Celeste-hl1kw]

Thank Goodness Catholic Answers exists, so that thanks to this extremely specific and niche linguistic knowledge I can remain confident that the Bible is the word of god. Phew!

[@cheftr1]

I would suggest the most natural reading of John 1:15 would be "... He was primal to me... "

[@tomasrocha6139]

The census is still completely ahistorical. Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

[@saberswordsmen1]

​@@tomasrocha6139 really, the very idea that people would have to travel to their homeland for a census in the very cosmopolitan Roman empire is just madness. Can you imagine the chaos? I think people who suggest this is plausible really don't grasp the scale at which this would disrupt society and the economy, and certainly that would lead to some other record of it happening.

[@josephcocker4184]

Quirinius . . . governor of Syria: Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, a distinguished Roman senator, is mentioned only once in the Bible. Scholars initially claimed that Quirinius served only one term of governorship over the Roman province of Syria in about 6 C.E., during which a rebellion broke out in response to a census. As a result, they attacked this passage and cast doubt on Luke’s account by reasoning that Quirinius was governor in 6 or 7 C.E., whereas Jesus’ birth was earlier. However, in 1764 an inscription was found that strongly suggests that Quirinius served as governor (or, legate) in Syria for two distinct terms. Other inscriptions too have led some historians to acknowledge that Quirinius served a term as governor of Syria earlier, in the B.C.E. period. It was evidently during this term that the first registration, mentioned in this verse, took place. Furthermore, the critics’ reasoning ignores three key facts. First, Luke acknowledges that there was more than one census, calling this the “first registration.” He was evidently aware of a later registration, which occurred about 6 C.E. That registration was mentioned by Luke in the book of Acts (5:37) and by Josephus. Second, Bible chronology rules out the possibility that Jesus was born during Quirinius’ second term. However, it does harmonize with Jesus’ being born during Quirinius’ first term, which was somewhere between the years 4 and 1 B.C.E. Third, Luke is well-known as a meticulous historian, one who lived in the era of many of the events he described. (Lu 1:3) In addition, he was inspired by holy spirit.​-2Ti 3:16.

[@clemonsx90]

" The inscription, found near Tivoli in 1764, probably belonged to the tomb of Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, "proconsul" (governor) of Asia and "legate divi Augusti" (imperial official) of Syria and Phoenicia in the time of the Emperor Augustus (27 BC -14 AD). This figure is mentioned in the Gospel in relation to the census at the time of the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem "when Quirinius was governor of Syria" (Lk 2, 1-7): indeed, this census has been the focus of intense historical debate, as it would appear that it took place twelve years after the birth of Jesus. In fact, the inscription in question, with the term "leg (atus) iterum ..." ("... twice legate") attests to the possibility of that Quirinius held an earlier post in Syria: on that occasion he could have overseen a more approximate estimate of the population, thus limiting the presumed discrepancy between historical sources and the passage from the Gospel according to Luke. "

[@radfordsmith2773]

My problem is more direct. The three maji had an audience with Herod.This prior to seeing Joseph and Mary. Conversation had included the Messiah. They had enough influence for Herod to see them...When arriving in Bethlehem they had no proxies or help. Even though they had warnings of Herod's intent to kill Jesus...These old school Hebrew bible men knew how important Jesus was...Yet , left no one to guard over the Son of God. In fact , left Bethlehem without helping Joseph and Mary to escape....These problems lead one to question the manger story all together...

[@GoofyAhOklahoma]

As a Christian who loves the historical side of the Bible, if this really is legit, then why haven't more scholars talked about this? Why is this the first time I'm hearing about it?

[@davidanderson6055]

@@radfordsmith2773 They warned Jesus and Mary and told them to leave, which they did. How on earth would some wise men with their guards ward off the military forces of Judaea? Telling them to leave and not drawing attention to themselves was best.

[@radfordsmith2773]

@@davidanderson6055 The most important being in FOREVER and you don't escort them out !? I know if it were me I'd die for him.But , these Hebrew Bible men thought not to do anything ,but , to warn the Son Of God's raisers to leave... I'm thinking that this is fiction......

[@grumpylibrarian]

I had a discussion just the other day on this. His take was that the word "πρώτη" / "prōtē" we translate as "first" should instead be "before." The NIV even has a note on this. This is only ever translated as "first" in the bible out of 100 uses, except in John 1:15 and 1:30, which are both references to the same remark by John the Baptist, and using the word "πρῶτός" / "protos." The Luke version is feminine and the John version is masculine, but I couldn't definitively say how the usage of each differs. These are both adjectives, where the English notion of "before" would be a preposition, but it's not unusual for a concept to be within a different part of speech in a different language. If any Greek speakers could let me know if the NIV note is justified, I'd appreciate it. EDIT: Fixed a brain fart; I had 'only ever translated as "before"' when it should have been 'only ever translated as "first"'. Sorry for any confusion. Of the 100 times this word is used in the bible, we translate it as "first" in 98 cases.

[@An_Arbitrary_Miscellany]

But the issue is not with the word 'first' (as in 'first census'); the issue is with the word 'while'.... as in the text "first census that took place while Quirinius was governer of Syria".

[@nothingelsetolose7661]

This one is so easy to explain I don't know how you guys don't understand this but truly every word was inspired by the word of God. God had Men write this down In order to preserve the heptadic structure, While giving the Overall general Time period Of when Joseph made his trip Back to Bethlehem God could not record it linguistically In such a way that would retain The Heptadic Structure of perfect sevens in the Bible So obviously it had to be recorded in this manner. Of course you would have to be aware of Dr Ivan Panin's Heptadic Numerical Structure code At the age of 22 he emigrated to the United States and entered Harvard University, where he spent four years, learning Greek and Hebrew, and graduating in 1882 with a Master of Literary Criticism.

[@An_Arbitrary_Miscellany]

@@nothingelsetolose7661 " God could not record it linguistically In such a way that would retain The Heptadic Structure" - so clearly god is not omnipotent then. You have just claimed that god has limitations. Is that correct?

[@MrLordFireDragon]

​@@nothingelsetolose7661 So the 'obvious explanation' is numerology? My understanding is that numerology is a pseudoscience people have used to justify all sorts of ideas. Do you have any specific, respected resources that can be freely accessed that explain this idea? I'm afraid my attempts at researching anything you're saying have mostly discovered assertions you can find a lot of sevens in the Bible and that proves one of any number of outlandish things.

[@decibel333]

This asshat has been copy/pasting that response all over....so yeah, it's not even a response to what the OP said

[@vibetech89]

And the Christians will say God gave intelligence and common sense to humans to find the error in the Bible.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him).........

[@anastylos2812]

That would be quite overly optimistic, wouldn't it?

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

@@owenallen5733 so you're saying that god gave you defective brains and that's why you believe in god? Why are you dissing yourself? Is this mascoism? Are you mascoistic? Do you get off from being ridiculed and is that why you say such stupid things? At least ask the other persons consent first before you use them for your weird sexual fantasies

[@vibetech89]

@@owenallen5733 Animals also have brain

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@owenallen5733 Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trash family who raised so trashy and sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later......... They got No God and no Dignity... something dies inside them when they stop to believe in God, but their are so patetic to admit... Soon or later they will stop to write empty shit on youtube about what we believe... Why? They are very weak, and quickly to change their mind about God... they are worthless people just like their empty atheism... but surelly they can not call theirselves atheists, but godless alone weak trash people. No respect for those liers or disgusting godless desperate ass kissers.... /they need to slpit on their dirthy mouth every morning as they deny God... but they are deceiving none but themselves, as they will paid for it, and be judge by God once death as anyone asle. (So it is better to be a son of God,m that a godless alone weak person)..... you no existence comunity is broken, and it is going to finish soon, no respect for you and your miserable godless alone weak life..... ..

[@clarenceworley3714]

Im begining to enjoy listening to Alex in the same way I did Hitchens. Great interviews and guests.

[@timothyxosullivan]

Yes, he has a beautiful logical mind, and he calmly asks these devastating questions.

[@viper2148]

Not an error at all. Luke never called Quirinius a governor (citation needed): “In studying this problem, there are two main solutions that Christian scholars offer, and each has some good merit. The first point is the terminology Luke uses when writing about Quirinius' governorship over Syria. In stating that Quirinius controlled the Syrian area, Luke doesn't use the official political title of "Governor" ("legatus"), but the broader term "hegemon" which is a ruling officer or procurator. This means that Quirinius may not have been the official governor of Judea, but he was in charge of the census because he was a more capable and trusted servant of Rome than the more inept Saturninus. Justin Martyr's Apology supports this view, writing that Quirinius was a "procurator", not a governor of the area of Judea. As Gleason Archer writes, "In order to secure efficiency and dispatch, it may well have been that Augustus put Quirinius in charge of the census-enrollment in Syria between the close of Saturninus's administration and the beginning of Varus's term of service in 7 B.C. It was doubtless because of his competent handling of the 7 B.C. census that Augustus later put him in charge of the 7 A.D. census." Archer also says that Roman history records Quirinius leading the effort to quell rebels in that area at exactly that time, so such a political arrangement is not a stretch. If Quirinius did hold such a position, then we have no contradiction. The first census was taken during the time of Jesus birth, but Josephus' census would have come later. This option seems to me to be entirely reasonable.”

[@YankeeStacking]

It’s not the first time we’ve had an “AHA! This is a HISTORICAL ERROR IN THE BIBLE!” Where a subsequent archaeological discovery clarifies and vindicates the scriptures. I’ll trust his Word and consider plausible options that fit the narrative.

[@YankeeStacking]

www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume38/GOT038282.html

[@KL-lt8rc]

...the census didn't take place until after Quirinius was made governor. There is no evidence of some 'other' earlier census. Nor did the census described (a massive empire-wide census that requires having to make a pilgrimage) happen, or even really make any sense as a claim.

[@viper2148]

@@KL-lt8rc says, “there is no evidence of some ‘other’ earlier census”. That is provably wrong. According to the official ‘Deeds of the Divine Augustus’ (14 C.E.) “ I [Augustus] read the roll of the senate three times, and in my sixth consulate (28 B.C.E.) I made a census of the people with Marcus Agrippa as my colleague. I conducted a lustrum, after a forty-one year gap, in which lustrum were counted 4,063,000 heads of Roman citizens. Then again, with consular imperium I conducted a lustrum alone when Gaius Censorinus and Gaius Asinius were consuls (8 B.C.E.), in which lustrum were counted 4,233,000 heads of Roman citizens. “

[@KL-lt8rc]

@@viper2148 Obviously I meant of Judea. There was no second earlier census just before Jesus' birth. The only reason the census was done is because Herod's son was banished and Judea became a Roman province. The census in the bible is ridiculous anyway. A census would not be carried out that way. It's obviously wrong.

[@stephenwodz7593]

The all-wise God could have avoided all of these debates if he'd simply used a better way to transmit essential information to every person in the world. Books are a very inefficient way of "spreading the word". There are copying problems, translation issues, mass illiteracy until modern times, and the thousands of years it's taken to get this information out to everyone. A half-intelligent omnipotent God could have simply downloaded all this information directly into our brains, eliminating these silly disagreements that Christians have.

[@kalu8652]

And yet there are over 2 billion people today who would claim to be christian. There isn't really a problem with the medium of written words. I understand where you're coming from though. I've wondered the same. I think if God downloaded the info into our brains, the next logical conclusion would be to question if god is good or evil, or question whether we are all under a grand delusion or being misguided. We could simply refuse to follow God's word anyway. I'm sure this comment could spark hundreds of other questions and arguments as well. It's tough, and I'm not the smartest man, but just figured I'd share.

[@rodseller9936]

😅 This is why I can't believe it anymore.

[@rodseller9936]

An omnigod could have easily developed technology and recorded everything so that way we can't doubt it.

[@esserman1603]

Everyone has the knowledge that God, according to Christianity. People just reject God's existence due to man's corrupted state.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@esserman1603 I have the knowledge that there are delusional people making ridiculous, unproven, magical claims about stuff they read in a book or worse, were merely preached to. I have absolutely _no_ 'knowledge' of a supernatural entity, and so does not one other person on this planet - Intuition is not _knowledge._

[@MarcDonis]

The doctrine of biblical inerrancy leads fundamentalists to the strangest places. It is surpassed in idiocy only by its ugly cousin, biblical literalism.

[@Rhewin]

Having been raised by a fundamental literalist, I can tell you they’re at their worst when put together.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)......

[@nothingelsetolose7661]

This one is so easy to explain I don't know how you guys don't understand this but truly every word was inspired by the word of God. God had Men write this down In order to preserve the heptadic structure, While giving the Overall general Time period Of when Joseph made his trip Back to Bethlehem God could not record it linguistically In such a way that would retain The Heptadic Structure of perfect sevens in the Bible So obviously it had to be recorded in this manner. Of course you would have to be aware of Dr Ivan Panin's Heptadic Numerical Structure code At the age of 22 he emigrated to the United States and entered Harvard University, where he spent four years, learning Greek and Hebrew, and graduating in 1882 with a Master of Literary Criticism. Chuck Missler Did a great study I'm Dr Ivan PANIN Work

[@smears6039]

@@nothingelsetolose7661so then how do you know that the rest was not erroneous due to author error as well?

[@nothingelsetolose7661]

@@smears6039 What I'm saying is it's not an error that it only had to be recorded that way in order to meet the linguistic perfection of the heptdatic Structure To validate Its divine authorship The general period in which the Roman prefect Ruled Is outlined Described And even though it may be wrong For the exact timing and period There was no other way to put it linguistically to keep up the perfection of the code In fact it wouldn't surprise me if there were other So called errors In order to Preserve Then numerical Code If you're not aware of this code I suggest you Dr Ivan PANIN And And Chuck Missler Heptdatic Lecture Study on the Bible

[@michaeltelevision9229]

The Herod mentioned in Luke 1 could be referring to Herod Antipas (reigning 4BC - 39AD), famous for John the Baptist's death, rather than Herod the Great, his father associated with the infanticide.

[@albertofernandez2490]

Herod Antipas ruled in Galilee not in Judea, where Betlehem is.

[@michaeltelevision9229]

@@albertofernandez2490 You're right. And what about Herod Archelaus, his brother?

[@PiecieRoneJones]

Or Herod Biggvs Dickvs?

[@cheftr1]

@@PiecieRoneJones or Incontinentia Buttocks?

[@michaeltelevision9229]

@@PiecieRoneJones lol

[@AndySmith4501]

I really appreciate the irony of the Christmas tree 🤣

[@presentfuture7563]

Lol. Why not. Happy twinkly pagan Yuletide, fellow heathens. 🎄

[@sofellow]

Love it as well! A Christian displaying a pagan tree tradition in his living room lmao

[@CSUnger]

Interesting conversation. I’m starting to warm up to this Ehrman guy.

[@ihatespam2]

He’s a straight shooter.

[@AlphaCentCom]

I thought that was a trumpet scream at the last second. ¶But it's always good to hear the doctor's thoughts on these things.

[@Digging_Kangaroo]

An interesting thing to note is that the Greek word used in Luke can sometimes refer to “before “ so he could have been referencing a census ” before” the reign of Qurinius, The God I believe in is capable of faithfully preserving His word and there is No mistakes just seeming mistakes that are misunderstandings

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

I took a New Testament class my first semester in college because freshmen were the last to chose their classes and it was one of the few electives that was still open once I had the classes for my major selected. It turned out to be a real eye opener for me. I had never looked at it with a critical eye. I had wondered why the stories in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John varied but I never even realized that Mark and Luke weren't among the named disciples and there is some doubt that Matthew wrote the book attributed to him. It might be that others wrote those books based on the teachings of men with those names. None of the disciples met Jesus until he was around 30 years old. Any stories of his birth had to have come from his mother and father. Joseph is only mentioned as being Mary's husband in Matthew and Luke and their genealogys differ. Why was it necessary to trace Joseph's lineage back to King David anyway if Joseph wasn't Jesus' father?

[@TSpartanDR]

The Israelite prophecy said the Messiah wound descend from David (Jer 23:5). Thus, the authors likely forced the pieces together to build on the old Israelite lore.

[@abelbabel8484]

@@TSpartanDR But that's just it - how is Jesus descended from David when Joseph is not his biological father?

[@lluvik2450]

@@abelbabel8484through both mary and joseph. Naturally he was from the line of david via mary, and legally he was in the line of david through joseph

[@sentjojo]

@@abelbabel8484 The prophecy is a little more complicated than that. In Jeremiah 22, Jeremiah delivers a prophecy of a curse on King Jeconiah right before the Babylonian exile that none of his descendants would rule on the throne of David. So Joseph being from the line of Jeconiah would mean his offspring would be under the curse. However, Jesus being the adopted son of Joseph creates sort of a prophecy loophole where he has a claim to the throne as Joseph's heir but he is not under the curse since he is not Joseph's offspring.

[@braylonmiller9341]

​@@abelbabel8484 Luke and other suorces from what I understand took some creative liberties such as well jesus said he was a prohet and in the old testament it says the prophet will be born of an almah a young women which may have been mistranslated into virgin so esentially it may have been some gap filling and Mary may or may not have been a virgin at the time of Jesus's birth.

[@AssasianStudios]

An obvious error in this clip: they don't date things with years, but that governor reigned 10 years after harod died. 🤔

[@swingingvoter4309]

They (the Romans) did date things in years. Initially, they used lunar years, but by that time, Romans worked on 365 day years (known as the Julian calendar). However, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Greeks and everyone else in the region, including the Babylonians before, numbered their years as the year of reign of a particular ruler. The concept of naming years by reference to the birth of Jesus was invented by a Catholic monk in around 500 AD (known as the Christianised Julian calendar, as there were still 365 days in it. The Gregorian calendar we use today (365.25 days) was invented in around the 15th century.

[@jamesichuch]

The issue with this is that Luke evidentially doesn't use the Greek word for governor, he uses the word hegemon which is a more generic term for ruler at that point. Luke uses the term governor accurately in more specific contexts.

[@360.Tapestry]

at some point, chrstianity got caught up arguing every branch on a tree and took the woods for granted

[@TommyGlint]

Not only was there no census at the time, but people were also not required to go back to their birthplace when a census actually DID take place. A census was done for tax purposes, and it would completely defeat the whole point of accessing a province or regions taxation basis, if everybody came or left. Imagine trying to find the taxable income for Britain by discounting all non-british living and working within Britain, but on the other hand including the income of Brits living abroad. Lastly, I’m pretty sure the Romans generally did not tax client kingdoms, and thus obviously did not demand censuses in client states. Tribute was paid, but the Romans did not have any influence how the money was scrapped together. In short; any call for a census in Galilee would not have come from Ceasar Augustus. The overall taxes and census incorrectness is in my eyes much bigger than getting a date wrong. It would be like 200 years from now we debated what year exactly in the 1960’s the US invaded Canada. It should be more interesting whether it happend or not, than getting the date right.

[@MrLaughingcorpse]

I remember census takers used to come door to door of houses and ask how many resided there until they started to do it by mail. Back in biblical times they had no internet or phones or mailmen. Correct me if I am wrong but they probably had to arrive in person and take a head count. That would mean people who were out of town had to come back home to be counted.

[@egonomics352]

Then what is Luke attempting to do? According to you it would make no sense then for Luke to do this and it would fall on dead ears among his audience as the jig would be up. He would know it and his audience would know it. If that was the only way to read and understand the text that is. Rather, Luke is hearkening back to David's census in 1 Chronicles. Luke, and the other Biblical authors, do this often. For example, the first two chapters of Luke's gospel is a direct parallel to David's encounter with the ark of the covenant. There he is communicating to his audience that the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, is the new ark of the covenant.

[@skindred1888]

​@@MrLaughingcorpseout of town...and living somewhere else are two different things.

[@Sc00terider]

I am in agreement with @TommyGlint.... a census value is for taxation reasons.

[@ESKERDRIVE]

The distance from Nazareth to Bethlehem is 151 kilometres which equates to approximately 90 miles. And it is said that Mary was on a donkey and we presume that Joseph had to walk. Just to attend a census that did not exist !!

[@jamesmaybury7452]

I don’t know why some people have a problem with the observation that Josephus is wrong in many places.

[@mullettcentral2186]

J. MacArthur Notes on this matter.... "Luke 2:2 Quirinius was governor of Syria. Fixing a precise date for this census is problematic. Publius Sulpicius Quirinius is known to have governed Syria during a.d. 6-9. A well known census was taken in Palestine in a.d. 6. Josephus records that it sparked a violent Jewish revolt (mentioned by Luke, quoting Gamaliel, in Acts 5:37). Quirinius was responsible for administering that census, and he also played a major role in quelling the subsequent rebellion. However, that cannot be the census Luke has in mind here, because it occurred about a decade after the death of Herod (see note on Matt. 2:1)-much too late to fit Luke’s chronology (cf. Luke 1:5). In light of Luke’s meticulous care as a historian, it would be unreasonable to charge him with such an obvious anachronism. Indeed, archaeology has vindicated Luke. A fragment of stone discovered at Tivoli (near Rome) in a.d. 1764 contains an inscription in honor of a Roman official who, it states, was twice governor of Syria and Phoenicia during the reign of Augustus. The name of the official is not on the fragment, but among his accomplishments are listed details that, as far as is known, can fit no one other than Quirinius. Thus, he must have served as governor in Syria twice. He was probably military governor at the same time that history records Varus was civil governor there. With regard to the dating of the census, some ancient records found in Egypt mention a worldwide census ordered in 8 b.c. That date is not without problems, either. It is generally thought by scholars that 6 b.c. is the earliest possible date for Christ’s birth. Evidently, the census was ordered by Caesar Augustus in 8 b.c. but was not actually carried out in Palestine until two to four years later, perhaps because of political difficulties between Rome and Herod. Therefore, the precise year of Christ’s birth cannot be known with certainty, but it was probably no earlier than 6 b.c. and certainly no later than 4 b.c. Luke’s readers, familiar with the political history of that era, would no doubt have been able to discern a very precise date from the information he gave." So - while it appears to be an error, can it not be true that Quirinius have governed twice?

[@lVideoWatcherl]

Why would anybody have to travel for a census, which is/was held basically exclusively for taxation purposes? Furthermore, assuming that the person that is meant is that Roman as the guy you're quoting does, is nothing but presupposing biblical correctness. Considering the immense amount of absurdities in the bible, the default position with any of it should rather be that it is wrong until confirmed, not the other way around.

[@tomasrocha6139]

Luke's census is completely ahistorical. Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

[@blairtinkle4563]

Love Bart Ehrman; I've read many of his books.

[@smartalek180]

Prof Ehrman is that rarest of all things (or, to be more precise, he WAS): An HONEST and COURAGEOUS believer. He didn't try to deny, hide from, or spin the facts, but went where the facts took him. And they took him straight out of his religion.

[@indisa099]

A mistake is actually a very serious issue. If one thing can be wrong, then lots/all of it could be, no?

[@MichaelAChristian1]

There are no mistakes. The King James Bible is Perfect. these are same liars who said King David was mythological . Did they REPENT afterwards? No because they hate God. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved.

[@Ex_christian]

@@MichaelAChristian1no Christian cult Bible is correct. They ALL contain contradictions! The Christian cult love to spread their lies and hate! And how is a make believe person going to save us from their make believe sky daddy that screwed up a lot in the Bible?

[@jhill4874]

What do you expect when Representatives are claiming that they were appointed by god to their office, not the vote of their constituency? And that they are only answerable to Jesus and not their voters.

[@DaveTexas]

In college, I took several courses on the Bible as literature. This was at a state university and the Biblical Studies courses were not religious in nature. The courses I took were taught by a Methodist minister but he was clear about the courses being a critical look at the Bible, not a church Bible study. We learned about all sorts of problems with the Bible in terms of incorrect historical facts and also self-contradictions. This was some 35+ years ago and I don’t remember much of what we talked about, but I do remember all the problems with the timeline of Jesus’ birth. As the ordained minister put it, the writers of the gospels were simply making up a narrative to tell the story in a way that matched the prophecies in the Old Testament. Nobody knew what had happened when Jesus was allegedly born, so they just made stuff up. Most of the gospels were written that way; there was some sort of source that contained quotes from Jesus (called "Q" if I’m remembering correctly) that the writers of the gospels had access to, and they filled in the stories around these quotes with whatever sounded plausible. I was impressed that a minister would admit this so openly. I was honestly taking these courses to allow me to have a good foundation of knowledge to use against "Christians" who claimed that atheists didn’t know the Bible. I ended up knowing far more about the Bible than 99.99% of Christians do. I’m pretty sure the minister who taught these courses was a closeted atheist who just wanted to keep his church job until retirement. He made no secret of the fact that he did not believe that the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. He also did not believe it was divinely inspired. He told us it was a collection of oral myths and histories that had been told from generation to generation for hundreds or thousands of years before being written down, combined with pure fiction that was written to tell a particular narrative that matched what the Old Testament said it would be. Add in all the letters written by early Christians - all trying to convert everyone to their new religion - and then write and rewrite everything many times over until you ended up with something that felt mostly cohesive. Needless to say, there were a bunch of students who dropped these courses every semester because they couldn’t deal with the truth about their holy book. They’d argue and even cry in class about it, and then they’d get schooled by the minister who knew what he was talking about. It was tremendous fun! A couple of friends of mine and I would occasionally go get drinks with the minister after class, and I ended up being friends with him for years after I finished college. I think he was trying to help young people on their journey to atheism, even though he always said that he was just teaching a non-religious look at the Bible.

[@doubleh3085]

That's a nice story. I'm pretty sure gatekeeping christianity and christian beliefs is and most of the time has been a problem. I myself had a pretty secular education so I have no strong feelings in favor or against christians. I will say, however, people who want to exclude others from their religion in order to make it stronger are just damaging their own reputation as the nice man in the video points out, christians haven't *always* been so hardcore fundamentalists and any modern common sense christian will tell you you don't need to damn people to go to hell anymore to belief in the truth. It's a harsh world out there and living together in peaceful coexistence has never been easy. It's very arguable who's the greatest threat to christianity: atheists or ultrafundamentalists.

[@Kendojin]

.... but the book of Luke doesn't say Herod the Great. It says Herod the Tetrarch, who was the deceased Herod the Great's son Or am I missing something? Feel free to jump in and help me

[@elias8141]

I know nothing about this. I just want to be notified when someone say something.

[@Kendojin]

@elias8141 you're welcome to it! I love learning and anyone else like that is my people haha If I may continue my thoughts while we both wait... Reading through it a few times, Luke 1, 2 and 3. Their claim is just not clear enough by what I see... Not enough to say it IS a mistake. But more like "if Luke meant Herod the Great then it is, but it seems like he meant his son"

[@KL-lt8rc]

Quininius wasn't the governor of Syria while Herod the Great's Son ruled Judea either.

[@Kendojin]

@@KL-lt8rc that would be convenient for me if it were true. can you give me their differing range of years? Maybe I saw incorrect info. Wikipedia shows them lining up

[@KL-lt8rc]

@@Kendojin Quirinius was appointed at the same Coponius was. Coponius replaced Herod Archelaus in Judea, after Herod Archelaus was banished.

[@ObserverPilgrim]

How do you know if the other sources are accurate?

[@garypedigogaeu5787]

“ I don’t know and I’ve got a PHD. “ There it is. It’s funny how people sometimes reveal themselves without realizing it. Believing that holding a degree means you’re especially intelligent rather than educated is not very intelligent.

[@njhoepner]

The factual error with Quirinius is one thing - well, one of two, since "Luke" claims directly that it was an empire-wide census ordered by Augustus, which of course is false (in fact I think the original readers would have known that too). The other problem is why would a census require a person to go back to where their great great great x 15 or so grandparent was from? There is no conceivable way that such a requirement would be anything but detrimental to the purpose of a census.

[@brianalmeida1964]

I've always felt that the point you raise is more damning than the inconsistency with conflicting dates. The point of a census is to discover who lives within a jurisdiction for taxing purposes. Having people return to ancestral locations totally defeats the whole point of a census!

[@njhoepner]

@@brianalmeida1964 I would say it's a flimsy plot device, because "Luke" knows he has to get Mary to Bethlehem somehow.

[@HHGary]

It makes total sense to require people to return to their homeland to be counted... the people you grew up with would know who is missing.

[@tomasrocha6139]

@@HHGary But it require Joseph to go to his ancestral homeland from 1000 years ago where King David was born, not to his birthplace. It's an ahistorical plot device to get Jesus of Nazareth born in Bethlehem as prophecy said the Messiah had to be.

[@andrewwasson6153]

@@HHGaryCan you imagine the airports in America if people had to return to their ancestral home whenever there was a census 😂

[@mutabazimichael8404]

Always like these short videos

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)....

[@dancollins4425]

One would think a story written by an instrument of god would not get basic historical facts incorrect.

[@dancollins4425]

Conjecture.@@MarkPatmos

[@monty3854]

I'm getting strong "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" vibes from Alex at the end.

[@matthewlennon6289]

I thought it was more a gracious acknowledgement of those Christian’s interested in well-reasoned philosophy. From what he said it also sounds like Christian’s make up a significant minority of his viewership, certainly not a majority, and the implication that he’s censoring or altering his views to placate a portion of his followers seems unlike him in my estimation. I disagree with your comment and what it suggests

[@monty3854]

@@matthewlennon6289 OK, thanks.

[@ugetsu2093]

The other problem with the Bethlehem story is that descendants of David 1000 years later would mean tens of thousands of people turning up there. After all how many great etc grandchildren children would there be by then?

[@Rhewin]

It would have to be direct lineage to count as being in the “house of David,” but even still, that’s insanity. The closest I believe we have on record is people being required to return to the place of their current citizenship for the census.

[@JonS]

After 45 generations how could someone choose which ancestor's homeland to travel back to? And how does this help with taxing people, which is what censuses are for: counting where people are living at that moment, so you can tax them?

[@cyber_rachel7427]

Precisely this. A fun fact about the late Christopher Lee that always pops up in posts about him, is that he is a descendant of Charlemagne. The problem with this fun fact, is that it also applies to me. And everyone in my street. And everyone in England. And everyone in all of Europe, actually. That's how population genetics works. Likewise, 16 million men have genes have genes derived from Genghis Khan; would they all be expected to return to Ulanbataar for a census? I obviously don't expect biblical authors to understand genetics; that would be stupid. But thinking *Romans* would expect a bunch of provincial non-citizens to return to the birthplace of any given ancestor is stupid too

[@yblackie]

Is that really a "problem" or just something you don't understand?

[@jimnewl]

Let's run with that. Why would it be a problem? That would certainly explain why there was no room in the inn, or anywhere else except a dingy stable.

[@benjaminandrades8951]

4:43 It seems to me that the most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books: that is to say that the men by whom the Scripture has been given to us, and committed to writing, did put down in these books anything false. [...] If you once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement [...] there will not be left a single sentence of those books which, if appearing to any one difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away, as a statement in which, intentionally, [...] the author declared what was not true - Letters of St Augustine 28.3 Bart Ehrman is wrong. Belief in Biblical inerrancy is not only taught by the Church, but it's also always been part of Christian belief, the Bible is without error and though there have always been people who deny this, it's the traditional belief of the Church.

[@benjaminandrades8951]

Also 5:33 It is heretical to say that any falsehood whatever is contained either in the Gospels or in any canonical Scripture. - In Job 13. Lect. 1, St. Thomas Aquinas Unless Bart Ehrman is prepared to say either that the most important medieval theologian is not part of "Christianity" as he uses the term or that the 1200s are "modern times", he shouldn't say stuff like that. That's crazy talk, if anything.

[@xpusostomos]

I would think so, it's up to ehrman to cough up a church father saying scripture is in error

[@simonrmerton]

I have to say I was most surprised to hear you speak of the resurrection as fact.

[@geomicpri]

I was surprised by that too, but I don’t think he meant it was a fact. He was saying that it’s a detail of the story that everyone agrees on as a fundamental part of the Christian narrative.

[@upublic]

another meaning of the word Fact is Case or Matter. Or alex was just speaking from a christian POV

[@RussellStrosnider]

The Lapis Tiburtinus found in the 1700s mentions a governor who ruled for a second time. Many historical scholars believe that this person was probably Quirinius. Add that to the misunderstanding of when Herod the Great died and you have muddy waters. The fact is that Luke has been proven time after time to be accurate and that our understanding of chronology was incorrect. Luke mentions these historically factual people and gives time periods so that there is no question that he researched and verified what he wrote. For us to doubt it 2000 years later shows how modern day historians mock the first person accounts because of arrogance or ignorance. They were there, we weren't. I'm putting my money on the actual eye witness.

[@KaiHenningsen]

Of course, there's a much worse problem with that census. No census as described has ever happened. That would make zero sense. Roman censuses had the goal of figuring out who owed how much tax. It was all about the money. To figure out how much money Joe owns, before the time when bureaucracy already knew all about Joe, the only reasonable way was to go where Joe lived, look around, maybe talk to some people (but probably not), and guess some number. Then note it down, that's what we'll expect Joe to pay from now on. It was certainly *not* telling Joe to go on a weeks-long journey (during which he can't earn money he'll need to pay his taxes), to a place completely meaningless in the context of taxes, and that he likely won't even know what it is (do *you* know where your male-line ancestor lived 1000 years ago?). Of course, the whole reason for this story was to get Jesus born in Bethlehem but otherwise living in Nazareth. And notice that the other gospel with a birth story does this in a completely different way. Pretty much every detail is different except for those two cities. Makes it kinda obvious that these stories are literary inventions, not history.

[@mattkuhn6634]

Regarding why it's so difficult for Christians to admit that there are errors in the bible, as a Catholic, this was always one of the things that distinguished me from most of my peers at the presbyterian school I went to. I was introduced to the historical-critical method pretty early, and as such I was disabused of notion of scriptural infallibility. That said, I feel like the Catholic Church is broadly, if indirectly, responsible for the modern thrust of fundamentalism. The crimes and sins of the church that led to the Protestant Reformation led to Martin Luther rejecting the very idea of tradition as a source of religious teaching, and ushered in the era of sola scriptura. It still took hundreds of years of evolution and schism to get us to where we are today of course (as Prof. Ehrman says the real origin of the modern concept of fundamentalism was during the Third Great Awakening) and it's not like the Catholic Church hasn't butted heads with science, I just feel like this push towards biblical inerrancy was an overcorrection caused by the venality of the Catholic Church.

[@MrLaughingcorpse]

Or could it be possible that the governor gave temporary governship to Quirinius to conduct the census because he didn't want to go there to do a head count or that he was just a screw up of a leader which he was?

[@tlufo]

I think it depends on how it was taught, I was in catholic school all the way to high school (in Mx), and was in those last years that the priest did a 180 on what the school was teaching as you may infer a lot of "faith teaching" was not done by the priests but other people, dang I don't even remember what they where called but you can guess moms in majority, who else had time those days. Anyhow, the priests were vastly more open for discussion and above all to not take the writing literal but to understand the message, as I get older the priests teaching resonates a lot more, read it and understand it, don't follow to the commas for the sake of doing it, don't memorize fragments to make a point and so on. I guess I was lucky.

[@xpusostomos]

Instead of all this waffle, why don't you tell us where the church fathers said scripture is in error, then we can settle this.

[@adamturner8732]

It's not an error... it's a mis translation of the Greek. It's more accurately commander. He was a ruler. One who is governing. (A type of governance job) which historically and factually he was at the time.

[@xpusostomos]

@@adamturner8732 I should probably ask you to cite the BGAD lexicon to support that claim, but I can't be bothered. The truth is, we only know in vague terms what the bible says. Was Christ the "only begotton son" of god, or the "one and only son" of god. Nobody knows. And if we did know, we still wouldn't know what that means.

[@willowsparks4576]

tl:dr luke states that mary and joseph went to bethlehem due to a census when corinius was govenor - problem is that he was govenor 10 years after Herod died meaning that mary and joseph wouldve had no need to flee from herod trying to kill baby jesus

[@irinak43]

I just interested what Allex thinks about such question. Is the conflict between religion and civilization? Thanks

[@willguggn2]

Christians of all flavours flooding the comment section. :D

[@albertmiller3082]

Divine inspiration is understood to be infallible, impeccable and perfect. Getting dates wrong is something humans do, not a feature of direct divine channeling. Whether direct divine channeling is a thing at all is a broader (& useful) question to ask. Nonetheless, here is a simple contradiction that is impossible to reconcile without some contortion of reason or circumstance. This single obvious human error begs the credulity of the balance of these Biblical texts. Simple as that.

[@robgrano6814]

Not if you don't believe that inspiration = "divine channeling." Not all Christians do, and this is true for Christians throughout history. Fundamentalism of this sort is a late-comer.

[@albertmiller3082]

@@robgrano6814 Good point. The simple truth that so many different views on this (& every other Christian issue) exists points to the reality that no single “divine plan” exists as an accessible reality for devoted believers. Assuming the premise that the God of Abraham exists and is anxious to witness vulnerable humans choose God- why do dozens and dozens of versions exist? It isn’t as though humans in different times and across continents can’t agree on what a “perfect sphere” is nor is there debate across cultures about the sum of adding two plus two. These realities are self confirming every time a human examines them. It’s like gravity - an obvious force that doesn’t falter. The force of Yahweh is not like that. Yahweh has written three holy books- The Torah, the New Testament and the Koran. These 3 books don’t always agree with each other. Oftentimes these books don’t even consistently agree with themselves. The Divine Message of Abraham is garbled and inconsistent wall to wall. The devotees of Judaism, Christianity and Islam argue among themselves and one another, on and on, endless doctrinal disputes. Why? If there is a sacred True North then every pure Sacred Tradition should unerringly point to it like a divine compass. The truth is not iterative or interpretive. Water freezes at 32 degeees Fahrenheit no matter where you conduct the experiment. Yet the “Perfect word of Yahweh/Jehovah/God” is impossible to discover scientifically. There is zero consensus and the disputes have raged for centuries and cost millions of lives. Jews and Christians and Moslems fight to the death even now as you read this. Where is the voice of their common God in light of this nonsense? 🤷‍♂️ Real genuine things present themselves as real genuine things and they endure that way. An electric motor is a real thing. A microscope is a real thing. The “word of God” is anyone’s guess and the proof is evident no matter where you read about it. Human ideas about what is or isn’t good and bad vary from time to time and place to place. If a consistent Universal Voice was speaking Sacred Truth to every human ear, we would not follow thousands of different traditions. The fact that “holy people” disagree with one another over and over and over again isn’t acceptable if a pure source was trying to get us all to believe in one truth. Blaming humans for hearing a Perfect Truth differently than each other is misplaced blame. Perfect Truth rings true to every ear that hears it. What humans call “religion” is not perfect nor is it necessarily true.

[@gemmagreene362]

The census was always my problem. I have a degree in Classics and I know that Rome (fiscally) did not care where your family came from, especially if you were a non-citizen. It would be like the UK government demanding that I register to vote in the London borough where my father was born (and to pay my council tax there), when I do not live in London. But I did once live there, so it’s not as outlandish as Joseph registering in a town in which we are not told he had ever lived.

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

Hey Alex! I've always respected how you present yourself, even though we have different stances. I am unable to articulate my position as well, but, thankfully I typically don't see a lot of what I believe are called "courtier's reply" or "Argument from fallacy" going on. Sure some jabs here and there, but nothing too egregious. Anyway, I'm really not interested in getting into a lengthy conversation about this, but isn't there like 5 or 6 different Herods in the NT that are all related, spanning longer than Jesus's earthly life? "Herod" isn't a title or anything, but was a name given to multiple men across a lineage, or various branching family members or something.

[@Samuelh777]

Of course Bart didn't mention the Fragment of the tomb inscription of Quirinius. In view of the meticulous care taken by Luke the historian, it would be unreasonable to accuse him of such anachronism. And indeed, archaeology has proved Luke right. A stone fragment discovered in Tivoli (near Rome) in 1764 bears an inscription in honor of a Roman politician who was twice governor of Syria and Phoenicia under Augustus. The official's name is not on the fragment, but among the merits he listed are details that, as far as we know, apply to none other than Quirinius. He was therefore twice governor of Syria. He was probably military governor at the same time as Varus was civil governor there according to historiography. The inscription, which was discovered near Tivoli in 1764, probably belongs to the tomb of Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, "proconsul" (governor) of Asia and "legatus divi Augusti" (imperial official) of Syria and Phoenicia under Emperor Augustus (27 BC - 14 AD). The inscription in question with the expression "leg(atus) ... iterum" ("legatus ... twice") suggests that Quirinius had already held another office in Syria earlier: this would explain why he enjoyed such a high reputation among the population, and consequently also reduce the supposed discrepancy between the historical sources and the passage from the Gospel of Luke. Ups.. Luke was right.

[@vladislavp3951]

Absolutely based.

[@michapawlak2015]

Not "probably", but "maybe" belongs to Quirinius. There's a debate about it for already 100 years, because of lack of sufficient evidence for this claim. There is also problem with interpretation of one word, which might mean that this senator was twice a governor or twice a governor of Syria and Phoenicia. We don't know it. So in conlusion - there is lack of evidence for this claim. The other thing is there is no reason for Joseph and Marie to travel to Bethlehem. Taxes were and are taken not from place we were born, but from place where we live in. This movement of people in Judea would create more chaos in taxation system, because how to collect taxes from small village of Bethlehem, when we registered more people, than actually will pay it. The major reason to place this story in Gospels was to relate Jesus birth with prothet that will be born in this village. It's not history, it's miraculous introduction of major character, typical in writing.

[@Samuelh777]

@@michapawlak2015 Luke 2:4 actually gives us the historical reason why Joseph and Mary travelled all the way to Bethlehem: Because he (Joseph) was of the house and family of David. This new, unrestricted census was supposed to count every nation by family and tribe (which is why Joseph, from the tribe of Judah, had to return to the hometown of his forefathers). Property and income values were not recorded in this registration. The Jews had to return to the place of origin of the tribe to which they belonged to. Therefore, It actually makes perfect sense that Joseph and Mary travelled to Bethlehem if you understand the historical background of Augustus Population census described in Luke 2:1. This was the first general census conducted outside Rome that included the people of the Roman provinces. It's obvious that the Author Luke was a very reliable 1st Century historian. It seemed fitting for Luke, after having carefully searched out and investigated all the events accurately, from the very beginning, to write an orderly account for most excellent Theophilus.

[@tomasrocha6139]

Luke is completely wrong. Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

[@Samuelh777]

@@tomasrocha6139 Were these scholars there 2000 years ago? Nope. But Matthew, Mark, Luke and John certainly were. They know better. ‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:1‭-‬4‬ [1] Since many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, [2] just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, [3] it seemed fitting to me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in an orderly sequence, most excellent Theophilus; [4] so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.

[@stu1002]

One thing to note here is that this is not what one might call an error which creates a serious issue. The debate is around something like an 8 year time gap. My point here is, it's not like Luke Attributes something massively anachronistic from 100 years out of place which would cause us to question the whole veracity or authenticity of the account - rather, it's the sort of error (if it is an error) which could be a perfectly legitimate error. Second thing though: It's not as open and shut as portrayed. There is some debate about whether the wording of Luke 2v2 is "While" or "BEFORE" Qurinius was governor. If it's "before" the problem completely disappears, and this comes down to a single word. Now - it's true the majority of texts we have say "while" (which would be incorrect) but there are some textual variants which are compatible with "before" - and the theological claim is only ever that the texts AS ORIGINALLY written were inerrant, not that the transcription processes have been. So where one is talking about a single word - it's possible Luke wrote "before" but a very early copying error made it "while". Can I prove that? No, of course not - but it's not an unreasonable speculation. Finally, Bart overlooks the fact that there *is* some degree of speculative evidence that Qurinius may have been governor twice - from the sepulchral inscription of Quirinius found near Tivoli in 1764. It's not a slam dunk contradiction - there's a fair bit of murkyness around this - certainly enough to give look some leeway and benefit of the doubt.

[@jackaltwinky77]

There is no “Slam Dunk” debunk, or Gotcha moment in pointing out contradictions within the Bible. The problems become: when you are told the Bible is never wrong, and then you find out that it is, that’s a problem. When so many people devote their entire identity to the words of this book, and then you can show where the book itself doesn’t agree with itself, that is a problem. Matthew has the birth take place 1-2 years before Herod the Great died (He orders all infants under 2 killed), which is dated to between 4 and 1BCE. Quirinius was governor in 7-8 CE, a date 10 years different, which cannot be made where both are true. They are mutually exclusive dates. Then you have what the family did after the birth… In Matthew they run away to Egypt until after Herod dies. In Luke they casually return to Nazareth after presenting Jesus at the Temple (approximately 8 days old). So when was he born? 2 BCE? Or 7 CE? Where did he go after? Egypt? Or Home. The reason this matters is they’re telling different stories about the same time period. Do either of these things really impact the narrative of “Jesus was sent to die for your sins,”? Well… no. But it casts into doubt that the 2 gospels that have a birth narrative can’t agree on when, and they both have incompatible genealogies… but that’s a different matter. The point of this contradiction is: the 2 books that tell the same story don’t agree on the details of the story. If they get the birth wrong, what else did they get wrong?

[@NevetsWC1134]

@@jackaltwinky77but as the first post said. It could easily be a miss translation. That is what needs to be looked at. Is the English being translated correctly from Greek to latin to english in Luke. And from Aramaic to the greek then latin to english in matthew. and not just english. which version of English were they translated. its not a simple pick up a book and go yep contradiction. you have to dissect it.

[@TheHuxleyAgnostic]

There's no actual name on the tombstone in Tivoli. Christians have just inserted Quirinius. It could belong to a number of actually documented two time legates.

[@kalu8652]

@@jackaltwinky77 Don't you think with 40+ authors, with vastly different backgrounds, writing over 1500+ years, there would be at least one slam dunk contradiction between the bible and reality, that disproves the Bible? I mean, the Quran was written by one person and there are plenty. Yet here we are on KZbin debating atheism vs Christianity because there aren't any. Intelligent people like Alex debate in their heads between atheism and Christianity. The fact that the Bible aligns with reality and can't be debunked is a miracle itself. Makes you think

[@johntiggleman4686]

@@jackaltwinky77 And since it's "the inspired word of God, there should be no errors...but then Matthew and Mark John (possibly John also) were illiterate, and could not write. So there may have been time errors when they dictated what they wanted written down. I'm no scholar, BTW.

[@tiotavopregunta502]

Alex having a christmas tree,that is surprising😅😅

[@Fluffyunicorno]

In the year 1764 an inscription known as the Lapis Tiburtinus was found in Rome, which, though not giving the name, contains information that most scholars acknowledge could apply only to Quirinius. (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, edited by H. Dessau, Berlin, 1887, Vol. 14, p. 397, No. 3613) It contains the statement that on going to Syria he became governor (or, legate) for ‘the second time.’ On the basis of inscriptions found in Antioch containing Quirinius’ name, many historians acknowledge that Quirinius was also governor of Syria in the B.C.E. period.

[@tomasrocha6139]

Luke's census is an ahistorical plot device to explain why Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem as the prophecies said the Messiah had to be. Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

[@willemrm4033]

He was a "governor" of two other regions before. He never was ruler over Syria twice.

[@jacocilliers2145]

Nowhere does it state that Herod the Great that was King at the time. Herod's son was also called Herod and so was his grandson. Matthew 2 only states Herod the King of Judea was reigning,thus refering to Herod's son,most likely.

[@KL-lt8rc]

Herod's son wasn't king of Judea. He would have ruled north of there in Galilee.

[@jacocilliers2145]

@@KL-lt8rc He had another son Herod Archelaus with his wife Malthace that reigned in Judea

[@KL-lt8rc]

@@jacocilliers2145 That also doesn't work. Herod Archelaus was banished and replaced by Coponius. Quirinius was made governor of Syria at the same time that Coponius was appointed in Judea. There was no time when a Herod ruled Judea and Quinius governed Syria.

[@scienceexplains302]

Only “the great” had been king. His sons were tetrarchs

[@jacocilliers2145]

@@KL-lt8rc This was in 6 to 9 after the birth of Christ.

[@troyfreedom]

It is the most important part of the story. It either means the divine creator isn’t concerned about its message or there isn’t a divine creator and all of this is just fabricated storytelling by men. Once I challenged the narrative of biblical inerrancy and found it to be a lie; I dropped any faith I had as well. Christianity is dying one mouse click at a time.

[@robgrano6814]

LOL -- you're applying a critique of fundamentalism/inerrancy to Christianity as a whole. That's an invalid broad-brushing though, because millions of Christians are neither fundamentalists nor inerrantists, myself included.

[@troyfreedom]

@@robgrano6814 Ok….what is the method you use to determine what parts you find valid and worthy to call yourself a Christian?

[@robgrano6814]

@@troyfreedom It doesn't really have to do with the validity of the "parts" so much as it does having a valid interpretational framework. When I realized that the fundamentalist framework/method doesn't hold up very well I didn't chuck the whole thing. I started looking at the other frameworks. Specifically I started looking at the early Church: how did *they* interpret the Bible? To make a long story short, it took about five or six years, but eventually I came to the conclusion that the Eastern Orthodox had the method/framework that most mirrored how the early Church's hermeneutical principles operated.

[@troyfreedom]

@@robgrano6814 I’m curious to know whether you find these stories to have actually occurred in time and space. Is it important for you as a Christian to know the author of Luke made a error regarding King Herod being alive during the Quirinius census?

[@robgrano6814]

@@troyfreedom I have no opinion on the truth of this alleged error. I'd have to dig deeper into the debate. However I do believe that the things happened in space and time, but that doesn't mean that the "reportage" needs to be 100% accurate. Recall that many people believed in the events long before the written records were promulgated. It is one of the errors of fundamentalist/literalist thinking that the Faith is based on what the Bible says. In fact the Faith existed years, perhaps decades, before the written records did. The Bible came out of the Church, not the other way around.

[@capnscarleg]

Blueletterbible seems to disagree, stating that Quirinius was governor from BC 4 to BC 1, and then again in AD 6

[@lopski8166]

I know of 2 possible explanations for this supposed error: 1. The word translated as governor here (hegemon) can simply mean leader. This could be used for positions like a legate (overseer of a province), or lower administrative positions like a procurator a prefect, etc. Luke uses the term (hegemoneuontos) for Pontius Pilate even though Pilate was a procurator or a prefect, not a legate. According to Josephus, Varus (not Quirinius) was in fact the governor of Syria at the time. Though according to Tacitus, Quirinius conducted a military campaign in nearby Galatia/Cilicia (Annals 3.48). That occurred sometime between 12 and 1 B.C.. (See also: Erich S. Gruen, "The Expansion of the Empire under Augustus" in The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume X: The Augustan Empire, 43 BC - AD 69, (Cambridge University Press, 1996) pages 153-154). It’s entirely possible Quirinius had a leadership role outside of being a legate in Syria at the time. 2. Some scholars such as Durham NT Wright suggest the translation reads “the census took place before the time when Quirinius was the governor of Syria” (Who Was Jesus, 1992 pg 89) because the Greek word for first (protos) can mean “before”. For example, in John 1:15 it said “he was before me” where protos is used for the word before. There’s some disagreement on this suggestion. But to Luke’s credit, he knew about the census that took place the year that Quirinius became governor, A.D. 6, correctly associating it with the rebellion of Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37). By saying it was the first/beforehand (protos) census, he could have been distinguishing between the more famous one in A.D. 6.

[@JeffreyIsbell]

Minus the extortion of Hell and the indoctrination of inerrancy, most religious trauma would vanish. So would the cudgels zealots use to oppress innocents. So, that’s the reason I stress the errors. They ARE a big deal to those who abuse others with this flaw in human nature called religion.

[@scoobydoo9579]

Those using religion to abuse are utterly heinous. That said, at this day and age (unless you live in a militant state, which unfortunately there are many), we all have the right to choose to believe or not believe -- if something is the truth (not saying if Christianity is) we can't really blame it on others' behaviors to defend us for not recognizing the truth, especially when it comes to something as important as the existential question (unless we are a kid and still rely on our parents to think for us).

[@feihceht656]

​@@scoobydoo9579there are no universal truths, you're still lost in the sauce of needing to believe in some sort of other to justify you because you can't justify yourself

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)...

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@scoobydoo9579 Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)......

[@scoobydoo9579]

@@feihceht656 Ha, even a coldblooded killer can justify oneself (see Francis Crowley's self assessment: "Under my coat is a weary heart, but a kind one - one that would do nobody any harm."). Every adulterers, murderers, thieves, rapists, (even lying toddlers) etc at one point or another managed to "justify" their own actions. It is certainly not that I can't "justify" myself -- it is simply that it is so elementary and meaningless to do so. The Bible called it the Original Sin because it is so basic -- humans "think" they can tell right from wrong. Look around you -- do you think humans can tell right from wrong?

[@northstar_7]

If you read the preface to a bible, they mentioned errors are made as they we’re written by men, inspired by God. I personally think that’s an honest and upfront mention to take into consideration. You should do a similar analysis on Koran next 😉

[@swissarmyknight4306]

So how many errors are there? On what issues specifically? How are we to know the true verses from the satanic verses? Its all a load of hogwash.

[@samselvaraj8171]

@@swissarmyknight4306 honestly, christians don't have to be hell-bent in believing a Bible without any factual errors like the Quran. Bible was written by multiple authors spreading across 1000s of years and multiple different locations. Bible, as a text, tells us about God written by men who have been inspired by God.

[@felipereyes1440]

​@@swissarmyknight4306That preface included in many editions is mostly reffering to translation and transcription errors. Some of the people who told the stories weren't even writing themselves because most people didn't knew how to write back then. Due to translations, it isn't clear if the original text meant before or after the mentioned government in the video. Small things like that can cha ge some stuff, but the main messagge and content is overall the same. If you know more than one language you can do the test yourself, and you'll see that some parts vary in subtle ways that can be more or less impactful. The problem is, we don't have the original copies and most people don't know how to read those practically dead languages.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)......

[@thaddeusgenhelm8979]

I mean, if you consider how many books were written as scripture for Christianity that the council decided to just... Not include in the Bible, it seems a lot more like people wrote stories, and picked their favorites, and then decided that the ones they liked best must have been inspired by their God. How good of him to have only given inspiration to books that supported the positions they wanted the religion to have. A very great and convenient god, that.

[@arthuroldale-ki2ev]

Even when I was a boy , I could not see the difference from a Bishop waving a tin box on a chain about, with smoke coming from it and a Witch Doctor throwing bones in the air. ( I thought them both nutters or worse)

[@therapheal_2278]

Bible verses your pastor will never show Exodus 21 Deuteronomy 23:1-3 Numbers 31:17-19, Ephesians 6:5 Psalms 115:16-18 Deuteronomy 25:5 Deuteronomy 25:11 Mathew 5:17-20 Leviticus 20:13 Leviticus 19:26 Mathew 15: 21-28 Luke 9:26-27 Jeremiah 14:14-15

[@malirk]

4:29 - Dr. Ehrman gives the exact apologetic we'd hear in defense of this. I'd simply say to them... *"Ok. Then we both admit the Bible has errors in it."*

[@mastermousemice6940]

This would be a response against a fundamentalist or evangelical, but not all Christians follow those theological movements. For example, I am a moderate, so I don't affirm inerrancy, only infallibility.

[@wmradar]

The difference between inerrancy and infallibility being...?

[@foolharde-love4322]

​@@mastermousemice6940 Could you explain to me why this isn't mental gymnastics? what are your definitions of errency and fallibility?

[@mastermousemice6940]

@@foolharde-love4322 The two words are defined differently. In/Errancy relates to any error, of any kind, down to the structure and spelling. To believe in inerrancy is to deny any error of all and any kind. In/Fallibility relates to the conceptual truth or falsehood overall. To believe in infallibility is to hold that the concept of something is without error. We make this distinction all the time, for example, in poetic language. Here we see an errancy ('the moon danced in the light') presented in such a way as to show a truth ('the moon was very pretty').

[@vibz8346]

@@wmradar I suppose the former is affirming the truthfulness of every single statement of the Bible, the latter is similar, but only concerns credal matters, and explains away other errors as mistakes of man. Here, when the writers were "guided" by the holy spirit, that was only in relevance to theology.

[@grapeshot]

That was the case that would mean that I would have to somehow go to a number of countries in West and Central Africa and just wander around. I would have to start at Senegal. But of course, we know Romans did not conduct census like that. And women were not counted in the census. So there would be no need for a heavily pregnant woman like Mary to go on a journey like that.

[@JonS]

Censuses are about counting where people are actually living so you can tax them. Joseph having to return to the home of a 45-generation removed ancestor (and why that one ancestor?) is nonsensical.

[@mikemckean1005]

@@JonS Even if it was where his father was born, or Joseph himself was born, it's nonsensical. There's been no census ever that was conducted that way.

[@SuperChicken666]

And what would even be the purpose of such a census? This is probably a bigger issue than who was the governor of Syria. I don't have a PhD, but it's likely just a literary device to insure that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

[@albertofernandez2490]

@@SuperChicken666 Romans conducted censuses regulalry, to asses the taxes.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)....

[@garycpriestley]

The "divinely-inspired" and inerrancy should only apply to the original as each successive copy or translation must necessarily be influenced by fallible humans.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trash family who raised so trashy and sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later......... They got No God and no Dignity... something dies inside them when they stop to believe in God, but their are so patetic to admit... Soon or later they will stop to write empty shit on youtube about what we believe... Why? They are very weak, and quickly to change their mind about God... they are worthless people just like their empty atheism... but surelly they can not call theirselves atheists, but godless alone weak trash people. No respect for those liers or disgusting godless desperate ass kissers.... /they need to slpit on their dirthy mouth every morning as they deny God... but they are deceiving none but themselves, as they will paid for it, and be judge by God once death as anyone asle. (So it is better to be a son of God,m that a godless alone weak person)..... you no existence comunity is broken, and it is going to finish soon, no respect for you and your miserable godless alone weak life..... ....

[@81Wordsworth]

But isn't the larger question not when the census happened but whether it happened at all?

[@stormhawk3319]

“An obvious error”? lol It’s full of them from the first page.

[@reaganlecroy7773]

Wow, get OWNED Christians!!!!!!!

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trahs family who raised so trashy abnd sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later.....

[@JacobMLeBlanc]

my main takeaway from the bible based on my upbringing as a catholic is basically “be kind.” that also happens to be my main takeaway from my limited research into laveyan satanism. haven’t delved into the muslim or buddhist religions at all but i presume they also would give me the same takeaway, so i don’t bother researching them. maybe i’m wrong but i’m intuitively very confident all humans want peace and love for all life, whether they are aware or/admit if or not.

[@MrBjoern91]

"Be kind" is definitively not the main message of Islam. The main message is to submit to god (Muhammed)

[@kalu8652]

The main message of Christianity is not "be kind". It is that we are made in the image of god, to glorify god, that we walked away from god, but god saves those who will put their trust in him through Christ, by grace through faith. Being kind is an aspect of it, of course, but its not the central theme. I would say dying to yourself, walking with god and truly knowing him are more central themes than that. Not looking to debate, just sharing!

[@ponpo185]

Now you have to wonder why Alex bothers researching something so incessantly he gains nothing from

[@johntiggleman4686]

@@MrBjoern91 Don't you mean Allah? Muhammed was his prophet, if my memory serves.

[@thomaspickin9376]

@@johntiggleman4686 Muhammed was his final prophet in Islam (which actually means submission). Jesus was also a prophet in Islam, but Muhammed was the final one so he's got the 'final word' on a lot of stuff.

[@No2AI]

We are clearly not dealing with entities that reason as we humans do - this is the confusion!

[@BrooklynA785]

Actually many Roman officials were co-leaders. You’d often have two people recognized as a ruler at the same time. Just review a list of Rome’s Emperors. Some historical documents will only mention one leader, some another. Also notice the default assumption that the perceived error, if there is one, is with Luke’s account, not Josephus’.

[@jamesbarringer2737]

I've studied ancient history of many cultures within an Ivy League setting. The thing that is so disturbing about both Alex and Bart, is their belief that their knowledge is somehow perfect enough to declare these things. That's completely at odds wtih epistomology - in particular given the vast distances in time we are talking about. Now for me, I only believe it makes sense to hold up the Bible to standards it sets within it's own pages. The whole issue of errors within the scripture is more than adequately set by the Biblical statement, "the Scripture cannot be broken." That does not seem to allude to being "error-free" but rather that the Bible will continue to work effectively for the purposes for which it was written, namely, "for encouraging, rebuking and training in rightreousness." Encouraging, rebuking and training in righteousness is the purpose of the Bible as described within it's own pages. As a prophetic statement, using the Scriptures' self-referential purposes (the only purposes that make sense to judge it by) - to be useful to encourage, rebuke, and train in righteousness - that the Bible will not be broken, indeed, seems to have proven out over the last 6000 years - a mind'bogglingly long period of proving itself out. Over this time, under the Bible's influence, we have changed, and continue to change, from a world defined by "might makes right" to a higher, more loving, more self-sacrificial set of ideals. BUT - from a purely historical accuracy point of view - it is NOT possible for a Bart Ehrman or an Alex O'Connor to make a clear case that Luke's statement is an error. - whether or not it factually is They both are demonstrating an epistomologically false - 100% false - level of confidence in both what they know and can know, given the vast amounts of time that have passed. An honest historian would never assert such certitude. I have always been bothered by Bart Ehrman unscholarly level of confidence in Ocham's razor - that the easiest answer is most often the right answer. Ocham's razor has its place, but it is the weakest of arguments. Out-of-expectation things happen ALL THE TIME. It is not the least bit rare for something to occur which is outside our routine expectation. It is appalling that just because something falls outside our routine experience, that Ehrman writes such things off so completely. That is NOT the role of historian, to answer things in that way. It blocks out truths. I have never seen that kind of overconfidence in any other area of ancient history. Ehrman, who on occasion has seemingly argued he is a trained historian and NOT (rather, a trained textual critic - Erhman even states, "Textual critic?!?! What in the world is that), may be unaware because of his lack of training. Or perhaps the rich rewards of asserting false certitudes is simply too lucrative. I've studied ancient cultures and literatures under trained historians, and as a general principle the trustworthy ones never make the kind of assertions of certitude that either Ehrman or O'Connor make here and elsewhere. That belief is purely and 100% against reasonable historical practice. We do not have anything close to complete knowledge of 2000 years ago (or even 2 days ago or even 2 minutes ago), and, indeed, it remains well within possibility that someone of the time actually being discussed may have a factually true understanding that other recorded testimonials may not be aware of. Luke may be right, and we understand we have a woefully poor lack of resources to confirm or deny it's validity. That is what an honest historian would state. Both O'Connor and Erhman seemingly make the assertion that it is 100% certain, that they are in the right on this. That kind of certitude is 100% wrong and arguably disqualifies either one's opinion, because it is a kind of belief that, from a genuine, historical espistomologic point of view, is completely iand 100% in error. It simply is not possible to have anything close to certitude on this on a purely historical basis. A simple example: In 500 years, at a time when transportation is entirely self-run, a case is found of a traffic accident - when one car runs the traffic light. There are but two witnesses, and two separate cars. Because each driver has clear incentives to give information which exonerates them, the case is entirely left to the two witnesses'. One witness says at the moment of the accident the light was a red STOP signal. The other says at the moment of the accident, the light was a green GO signal. If the reader was Ehrman or O'Connor, they would state with 100% confidence that the two witnesses are contradictory. But they don't realize they don't understand the full functioning of a traffic light of 500 years earlier - that when one light shows GREEN, it is probably showing RED in a different direction. The seeming "contradiction" is easilly explained by things they do not know, and quite likely CANNOT know. Every historian I have studied under, particularly of very distant history, has this awareness of this as an issue. Both O'Connor Erhman act in obliviousness to this truth - whether or not they are, I don't know. But the certitude with which they express these opinions makes it very clear, this is not about understanding TRUTH - as historical truths as old as these are impossible to know with any reasonable level of certitude. These are people trying to win an argument, without regard to truth. Maybe Luke got this wrong, or maybe he lied (it seems dubious a man who went on to be martyred for his testimony would lie, but he might - would Erhman or O'Connor even risk martyrdom for their assertions?). Or maybe he was right and we simply lack other sources that confirm what he testified to. The validity of the Bible to do what it declares is its purposes, are not broken by as minor a detail as this. But what we do get out of this is neither Ehrman nor O'Connor are discussing this in good faith, i.e. with a reasonable understanding of what they could reasonably know about a time 2000 years past.

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

"I can rationalize believing this" is a very far distance from "this is probably true".

[@clemonsx90]

I appreciate the long post and your argument against immediately applying Occam's Razor is solid. Aristotle says that an educated mind entertains ideas without necessarily accepting them, so Erman is essentially teaching ignorance. Your point is especially germane since other commenters have pointed out archaeological evidence for a prior governorship in the BC period. Erman's argument also assumes that Luke is writing for people in the distant future, when he was in fact writing for people who would actually know if Quirinius and Herod were alive at the same time. His citation of Josephus makes it worse, since it makes it clear that everyone in the Roman Empire knew who Quirinius was. Maybe Bart Erman thinks it's a wishful possibility for their to have been a prior term of governship, but the people of the Roman Empire would be as aware of it as we are of Justin Trudeau or Donald Trump.

[@ihatespam2]

Your entire statement is meaningless. The Bible states God murders children when he don’t like the parents, that’s unethical. People look for objective morality well, it not here and what is is evil. The science is all wrong and the history is full of errors. And clearly parts of it are mythology. So what exactly to you get from it if it is unethical, and inaccurate? I mean you have to have on blinders to not see the ludicrousness of that collection of stories being taken in anyway as “gospel”

[@xpusostomos]

Whatever you might think about the epistemology of governors, the bible is flat out wrong about adam and eve and the geniology.

[@tomasrocha6139]

The census is completely ahistorical. Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

[@ItsThatGuy1989]

It’s interesting, since becoming Orthodox I don’t have an issue with some historical details being wrong in the Bible. Church authority and tradition mitigates any issues with that. I’d imagine it’s the same with Catholics as well. It seems primarily a Protestant issue, when they rely on scripture along as their sole source of infallibility. If any detail is wrong, how can it be trusted? It can collapse that worldview for some easily

[@swissarmyknight4306]

So your worldview is based on "church authority" with no factual underpinning? What a way to live.

[@poke_warrior]

Curious, if you don't use the bible how do you arrive at the conclusion that ANYTHING resembling Christianity is actually true? For example, if we eliminated every single Bible from existence and wiped everyone's memory - do you still think that Christianity would naturally find itself existing again?

[@ItsThatGuy1989]

@@poke_warrior If you eliminated all bibles today, I would say you still have at least the Orthodox and Catholics that have the correct theology in that they Affirm the Nicene Creed. The first 300 years of the Church there was no "bible" in that they pieced it together over time. Oral tradition, discipleship, etc. was essential. People like St. Ignatius of Antioch really helped establish the early church. And if one thinks the Holy spirit guides and leads to both the bible and Church, then you can hold that men make errors, but that the essential doctrine isn't lost.

[@poke_warrior]

@@ItsThatGuy1989 You're only addressing one half of my point. What I'm asking is "Is Christianity self-evident?". If we eliminated all the bible AND wiped everyone's mind - would Christianity once again come back as it is? The point I'm trying to make is that without the Bible, Christianity does not exist. Christianity is, itself an evolution of Judaism. You can't say that the Bible didn't exist for the first 300 years of the church - it absolutely did. The new testament didn't in it's entirety but the old testament certainly did. I have very sincere doubts that Christianity is self-evident. I think I'm right because as with all religions, it only enters different geographical areas through other Christians. People don't hear the voice of the Christian God and become Christians. They become Christians through the introduction of the bible or another Christian telling them stories that resonate with some part of them.

[@ItsThatGuy1989]

@@poke_warrior the church 100% taught Christ’s teachings before the texts were established in these communities fully. Again, St. Ignatius is one of these people. He was taught by John the Apostle, and is how he received it. Sure, if you wiped out everyone who heard the gospel and didn’t have any apostles or anything, there would be no Christianity. The same could be said for literally anything in existence man.

[@OmniphonProductions]

There's another interesting nuance at play with regard to these dates. Not only is it impossible for Jesus to have been born while Herod was alive _and_ Quirinius was Governor of Syria; the Christian Calendar places Jesus' birth (0 A.D.) when _neither_ was true...four years _after_ Herod's death (4 B.C.) and six years _before_ Quirinius' governorship (6 A.D.). P.S. George Schultz was the Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan, but _prior to that,_ he served under Richard Nixon as Secretary of Labor _and_ Secretary of Treasury respectively. (I only know this because Schultz was frequently in the news when I was a child; he was the face of diplomatic relations (and nuclear disarmament) between the USA and USSR.

[@newnoggin2]

I am sick of this debate about details in the Bible! It is all Bronze Age superstition and myths.

[@jursamaj]

I disagree with Alex here. I think people should take errors like this *more* seriously. Sure, "it's not the point of the story", but the story is making the factual claim that God brought salvation. If it can't even get such a simple historical fact correct, why should we believe it's much larger claim. The whole point of putting the Herod & Quirinius details in the story is to make it more believable. But since 1 or both details are false, that does the opposite, making the story *less* believable.

[@gsr4535]

Iron Age/Bronze Age man's writings trying to understand life and the universe. Of little relevance to today's life.

[@davidbean6973]

Why didn’t God just “inspire” his apostles or any of the early church leaders to notice these scriptural errors and contradictions and correct them? Was the original version so sacred that it could not be altered?

[@opperturk124]

I have a nice philosophical hot take: Hurting someone who is perfectly stoic, and therefore be less sad is less bad than hurting someone who will get super emotional over it. With hurting i mean like stealing from them or killing their mother.

[@seantoal5261]

It’s certainly not better for you

[@opperturk124]

@@seantoal5261 true

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

I mean, that depends on your ethical framework and on what you mean by "less bad". Less harmful? Less morally depraved? Are we looking at the outcomes of your actions, or at the moral character of your decisions? If you try to do an evil thing but fail, is that less evil? Etc. etc.

[@clemonsx90]

If you discovered a cure for cancer, but intentionally withheld it for monetary gain. Would it be wrong?

[@opperturk124]

@@clemonsx90 yes. You have the ability to save lives but dont

[@LoveAllAnimals101]

The bible. The perfect template for fiction writers to be inspired and craft their art!

[@HistoryBloke]

I am a Christian and have a simple answer. Luke was mistaken, which is fine as he was a man, and who was ruling during that time is not a crucial part of the Gospels. This is why complete and total literalism is flawed, imagine taking all of Revelations as literal truth and not prophecy.

[@Non-religiou]

Christianity is not even true at all.

[@HistoryBloke]

@@Non-religiou I disagree, and hope that God will show Himself to you one day. Have a wonderful and blessed life.

[@obiwanduglobi6359]

What do you think about the fact that in the very oldest version of the Mark gospel, the whole resurrection story is missing. It ends with an empty tomb. How come?

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@Non-religiou Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him).......

[@zenon3021]

@@HistoryBloke my opinion is that the Bible's a fantasy-fiction book with talking trees, talking animals, magic, witches, zombies, and mythical global flooding. And if you ignore all the fantasy elements and just look at the Bible MORALLY it's not much different from the Quran: sexist, homophobic, promotes slavery and infanticide... Thus, in my opinion, the Bible is a backwards fantasy-fiction book (morally backwards & scientifically backwards)

[@the_luggage]

You look high, or very tried, Alex; hope you're well, look after yourself! Great video, thanks.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

What matters to me is the absence of a contemporaneous, first person, eyewitness account of the resurrection. There is only decades old hearsay.

[@RobotProctor]

Why don't you have a separate clips channel instead? I already listened to this. EDIT: sorry if this came across as "why did he waste _my_ time?" I just think it's a common pattern, and I bet lots of folks like me would prefer that. How would he know if we didn't give feedback? Didn't mean to rub folks the wrong way here.

[@frostthegrey]

idk just dont click on it if youve already heard it

[@user-qq5du7iv4t]

Lol

[@bladdnun3016]

@@frostthegrey It may not always be obvious that the video in question is a clip of a previously aired video. It's not a big deal, but it can be annoying.

[@anonxnor]

He has a separate clips channel

[@plato8427]

So self righteous lol

[@TheTruthKiwi]

Biggest error in the bible: People claiming that on omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofed everything into existence from nothing.

[@t.d6379]

As apposed to chance? Have you seen the mathematical chances of that, that being everything coming from nothing?

[@pathfinder1273]

Okay, you made the claim, now prove it.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trahs family who raised so trashy abnd sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@pathfinder1273 Then do not tell me this is not a sick cult with godless ass kissers and godless alone trash people that are so obsessed with what other believe and the reflection of other people believe. No respect for those sick godless people. For Real? What kind of stupid empty cult is this nothing offer nothing gives, but empty BS? As God really cares about what you think and your stupid philosophy empty words as godless alone trash person (anyone who deny God is a godless alone trash person)… Another reason none can respect you, you are a lier as any modern Goddenier.. And we hope the next generation will be better then you and forget about you and your empty stupid worthless atheism not even worst to clean my ass. … you are just empty like it. Then why only godless alone trash people are obsessed with hell, while we are not? Another reason to do not be like them, and live with this constantly fear… What idiots! For really you did not get those empty Videos where godless alone people constantly talk about God, showing their obsession, are made not to help anyhow your godless alone life but to trap you into this empty stupid cult called atheism they know we live in the time of stupidity and godless trash people so they need to capture them as more as they can. They know you are the most stupid, weakest and alone people in the face of earth and they need to take advantages on you. They know you run anytime you see godless ass to kiss it. That what this empty BS cult atheism make you be, without God and without dignity. But let see how you are in trapped in this cult: Let see how many godless rats are here with their empty words and life, just as their cult called atheism. Why? Why Godless alone trash people want see the existence of God when it is clear that if they and all the things they see around (earth, stars, planets and so on) if they are creation something must created them. For real no respect for those godless blind trash people. God is what they do not know have and do not know in their miserable alone trash life. But God will take care about them as well, once death as anyone alse. Let's hope we will have better generation that those godless alone trash one.... We really do not need this empty and worthless cult called atheism and those modern godless alone idiots who thinks God cares to exist what those poor alone people think about him. No respect for them and their miserable godless alone life. (they are also godless ass kissers, as they run anytime they see a godless alone person... that what happen when you do not have God in your life, you lose your dignity, and you start to be disgusting in that way)... Oh anyway when you stopped to believe in God something died on you but you are so pathetic that you are not willing to admit it (right?). What trashy people without shame they deny their creator, and they will be judge for it.... Liars ad patetich as any Goddeniers. so their worthless empty life without him.... They are even the weakest people, because if they are wrong, they are the ones who will pay for denying God... Won't be in their shoes. No respect for them.... I told you this godless is the worst generation (those people are just empty and worthless as the cult they are in), and when it will be gone with their stupid empty, worthless atheism that does not going anywhere, that do not offer or teach anything, none will complain about it, not even those very weak losers!!!!! ... Do not call them atheist but godless alone souless trash. Let's forget about those worthless empty people and their worthless and empty cult do not even good to clean the dirtiest motel. WHEN YOU WILL BE GONE NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU AND YOUR STUPID CULt CALLED ATHEISM. You are the worst of people, no respect for you:... those are juss godless alone trash people, liers as any Godeniers with less thing sacred in their miserable alone godless life… those weak people are so weak and alone that they wait for an empty videos from an obsessed godless person to kiss his ass, disgustingly (no God, No Dignity) it would not change their life, actually more alone and empty, (they do not even have a real community) empty life they live empty shit they are in like this stupid cult called Atheism! No respect for them. (They are very weak, empty and frustrated people, a life that none will accepted, but those godless alone trash idiots).. those who say there is no God will pay for it, soon or later... No won't be a godless alone trash person into an empty cult not even good for my ass such atheism, that offers them nothing. But emptiness and lonlyness for their miserabile godless alone life. No respect for them. They are just empty as their cult called atheism. But they will pay this soon or later, and all the emptiness for nothing they are facing in their ridicolous miserable alone life! It is time to throw on the trash empty atheism and godless alone trash people, they are not even worthless to clean shit. You can not respect them and their emptiness! It is over for you, trash is not even good to clean you of all this atheism BS. No respect for you. Let's really hope we can have a better generation and forget this godless alone trash one as quickly as possible. IT IS OVER, it is time for you and this nosense called atheism to go back from the nothing you come from. No respect for you. You will pay all this shit, soon or later... Today I will put your BS atheism in the toilet and flash it and you godless alone will shut up, ok? You are worthless and empty as your stupid cult. No respect for you.... This is the worst, weakest, empty generation, and when it will be over with their stupid empty cult called atheism none will complain it. IT'S IS OVER, godless alone trash.... Those godless alone poor people are playing with the fire, and they will pay for it, and even badly........ They are so desperate and frustrated in and empty stupid life... No sorry for you. Let's hope in the next generation, let's hope in a better generation, and let's forget this one and trhow it on the trash with their stupid, nosense cult called atheism that will lead them anywhere. No respect for you again..... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GODLESS ALONE TRASH PEOPLE AND YOUR EMPTY STUPID ATHEISM NOT EVEN GOOD TO CLEAN THE DIRTIEST TOILET IN THE WORLD... You got no peace over there (and if God is real you will be and are f.... up.. You godless alone people are so weak)......... God will care about you as well, poor person.... (you life is more miserable and empty without God, but you are so patetic to realize it). NO respect for you and your empty cult called atheism....... You are just frutrated,obsessed, miserable, alone godless person that does deserve any kind of respect, just to be so. (Lier as any Godenier)....... IT IS OVER FOR YOU GUYS, YOU AND YOUR STUPID EMPTY CULT ATHEISM That does not even deserve my piss….. all this just show how much those godless trash people are frustrated (to do not have what people have sacred and holly) no respect for them. it is time to throw away that empty bs cult called atheism that does not explain anything and it is not even good to clean the dirtiest toilet. Godless alone trash people, liers as an any Goddenier, dishonest and the worst and stupidest generation ever had. Let’s froget about this godless trash worthless generation and waiting for a better one. (By the way you will be judge as anyone alse once death by God, do not think you will escape because you deny him, as a godless alone rat as you are (You are also a disgusting godless ass kisser, that anytime you see a godlesss ass you run to kiss it. because you got no God and no dignity in your miserable godless life) NO RESPECT FOR YOU (your life is more empty and miserable without God, but you are the only fool to do not get it… WHY?)... this godless alone trash generation is the worst... Let's hope we can forget about them and have a better one. No respect for them and their stupid empty cult called atheism...... Godless weak people (you are weaker now and later ponce you will confront God, no matter what you sick people think about him)........... They do not deserve any respect, with their godless alone trahs family who raised so trashy abnd sick to deny God. (and they will also pay fgor it, soon or later........

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@t.d6379 So, "I don't think there was a chance that the universe and life could've originated naturally therefore the abrahamic christian/jewish/islamic god" right? Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins and gods. It is human nature to make stuff up when we don't have all the facts and christianity, judaism and islam are no different. Out of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet and the millions that have gone before NOT ONE PERSON knows exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang or the Planck Epoch to be more specific. If anyone claims that they do know then they are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both. In saying that, it is almost infinitely more LIKELY that the universe originated naturally, or has possibly always existed in some natural form, and wasn't poofed into existence by some omnipotent entity from another dimension. We exist in a natural universe my friend, not a magical one. Indoctrination, fear, ignorance, wishful thinking and cognitive dissonance are powerful things. We are most likely not immortal and the universe most likely doesn't give a fuck whether we live or die. Yes, it is incredible that life originated and that you and I were lucky enough to be born. If it didn't and we weren't we just wouldn't be here to observe it and argue about its origins. Nothing supernatural has ever been shown or proven to exist whatsoever.

[@rodbenson5879]

As a Christian I go one step further and say these historical inaccurracies are a feature not a bug. They give weight to the gospels being authentic historical documents written near the time of Jesus' life and are not latter fabrications that would have ironed out all the inconsistencies so they would meet some weird inerrancy test imposed by those who conflate an inspired word from God with an actual dictated word from God (a Muslim not a Christian concept). I would be much more worried if Matthew, Mark, Luke and John perfectly aligned as then they would just be creations/adaptations from a single source. Having said all that, because the gospels are truly early historical documents one also must be careful about dismissing what they say as in error too quickly. A case in point I seem to remember is John 5:2 NIV - Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. For many years scholars thought this was a Johanian invention until the ancient site was confirmed by modern archeologists. In other words, unsurprisingly, John details here were correct right down to the covered colonnades.

[@danielmozumdar6224]

Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, a distinguished Roman senator, is mentioned only once in the Bible. Scholars initially claimed that Quirinius served only one term of governorship over the Roman province of Syria in about 6 c.e. during which a rebellion broke out in response to a census. As a result they attacked this passage and cast doubt on Luke's account by reasoning that Quirinius was governor 6 or 7 c.e. whereas Jesus birth was earlier. However in 1764 an inscription was found that strongly suggests that Quirinius served as governor (or,legate) in Syria for two distinct terms. Other inscriptions too have led some historians to acknowledged that Quirinius served a term as governor of Syria earlier, in the b.c.e. period. It was evidently during this term that the first registration, mentioned in the verse, took place. Furthermore, the critics reasoning ignores three key facts. First, Luke acknowledges that there was more than one census, calling this the first registration. He was evidently aware of a later registration, which occurred about 6 c.e. That registration was mentioned by Luke in the book of Acts (5:37) and by Josephs. Second, Bible chronology rules out the possibility that Jesus was born during Quirinius first term, which was somewhere between the years 4 and1 b.c.e. Third, Luke is well known as a meticulous historian, one who lived in the era of many of the events he described. Luke (1:3) In addition, he was inspired by holy spirit. 2 Timothy (3:16) info: JW.ORG.

[@albarosolis5969]

The fact that they are trying to prove a date was wrong 2000 years ago to discredit the Word of God is in itself proof that they don't have much to stand on

[@Tanner404]

Well I would argue that if it's the word of god it should have 0 contradictions at all, even if it's something as small as a date 2000 years ago

[@albarosolis5969]

@@Tanner404 it's not an error or contradiction it's so close that we can't prove it I can put on a archeologists that can show that the bible is right and we will go in circles but people can't deny that our Lord Jesus Christ came did miracles cured diseased people died on the cross than over 500 people saw him after he was resurrected that is recorded in the Scriptures and by Roman an Jewish non Christian historians

[@albarosolis5969]

@@Tanner404 the facts are there I was not a believer in the word of God until I was 35 someone came shared the gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ took away the veil from my eyes most people don't believe the bible and never read it or they hate God which they say they don't believe in

[@Tanner404]

@@albarosolis5969 What facts? Other than what's written in the Bible (like the 500 thing) you haven't shown me any proof that the bible is true. I have read the Bible several times and I used to be a Christian which is why I left

[@albarosolis5969]

@@Tanner404 historians wrote about Jesus Christ not only the Bible the medical journal affirmed Jesus Christ died on the cross he cut time in half BC and AD his disciples turned the Roman empire on its head

[@FriendshipUberAlles]

The presumption here is that the mysterious source that is conspiring to put the events together in a way that reveals details of proofs in some insipid and easily believed way is the presumption that the mysterious source has no similar feelings or tendencies of thought as human beings do. When one truly considers the mysterious source to have similar human feelings, then all of these proofs and little games of belief that reveal profound facts of life become more. What they are: extremely generous offerings from the demand of love as God.

[@FriendshipUberAlles]

Considering that spirit demands that life walk a course of the truth, it exemplifies, and that this time that we all live in right now, just post you know, second millennium AD, that this time requires some kind of truth before the nascent technologies that are to come reveal the spiritual connection and certain other ways, it's from the perspective of someone who was a purely scientifically thinking person upon realizing this, so clearly apparent that there is no room for doubt that I wonder how anyone else does. And then I listen to you guys speak and hear your pedigrees of faith and I. I realize how difficult it must be to try and answer questions from a non-scientific viewpoint that clearly pushes the point to the absolute. Which Christ is.

[@jonathandavidshepard2728]

Cool interview. Very helpful for me as a believer. The letter brings death, the Spirit brings life.

[@lesterross1]

An Obvious Error in the Bible......It is not in the Fiction section of the library.

[@Patrick-ho3st]

Wait, where does it say Herod was reigning?

[@dyvel]

The error doesn't matter? It doesnt matter that the word of the supposed perfect god is erroneous and that God thusly isn't infallible?

[@rebelresource]

I think the reason why Luke got it wrong is more important and is one of the reasons why I want to start a KZbin channel to respond to this.😊

[@nasirfazal5440]

I had a political discussion with secretary Shultz at MIT, he worked for Reagan. .Prof.Dr.Nasir Fazal Cambridge USA

[@jayfrank1913]

I knew that Schultz was Reagan's Secretary of State because it was on the news and in the newspapers I read. I have never spoken to him nor do I have a college degree. Have people forgotten the 80's already?

[@cygnustsp]

But... If Luke was completed by 80ad, wouldn't there have been people who recognized this error immediately? Did anyone ever address it?

[@MichaelAChristian1]

These atheist hate God. They don't care. They know Luke is correct. These are the same fools who said King David didn't exist. Did they repent? No because they hate God.

[@xpusostomos]

Even if there was, the chances that they (A) cared and (B) wrote about it and (C) weren't ignored and (D) it was preserved to today is incredibly unlikely.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@xpusostomos What about the lineage names to Jesus in both Matthew and Luke? They don't agree and no one seemed to care and that's super obviously not in agreement. You'd think people would care. But there are number discrepencies in Kings and Chronicles too. Why preserve those?

[@TheStrangerSpeaks10]

He says that the other sources (plural) all contradict Luke, but isn’t it just Josephus?

[@OneStepToday]

The Catholic Pope issued a Bible interpretation decree in 1993 against the American fundamentalist way. Defining it like this - The actual term fundamentalist is connected directly with the American Biblical Congress held at Niagara, N.Y., in 1895. At this meeting, conservative Protestant exegetes defined "five points of fundamentalism": the verbal inerrancy of Scripture, the divinity of Christ, his virginal birth, the doctrine of vicarious expiation and the bodily resurrection at the time of the second coming of Christ. As the fundamentalist way of reading the Bible spread to other parts of the world, it gave rise to other ways of interpretation, equally "literalist," in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. As the 20th century comes to an end, this kind of interpretation is winning more and more adherents, in religious groups and sects, as also among Catholics.

[@andrejjackson3890]

Luke 2:1 is the decree going out for ppl to be registered to be taxed(while Herod was still alive and Jesus is born). Luke 2:2 is more detail to when the tax Actually first took place: When Quirinius was governing Syria.