Analog vs digital EQ

Equalization of the sound can be accomplished both in analog and digital DSP. Which is better?

[@raulgarcia1718]

This is probably one of the best explanations on the use of eq I’ve found so far. Very practical and non judgmental.

[@spacemissing]

I normally run my equipment "flat", but I will Not use an amplifier or receiver that doesn't have tone controls. There are too many reasons in favour and too few against, including the fact that some recordings need a tweak to make them listenable.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Since audio for near 100% nowadays is already digital from the source, DSP is the way to go for most people and EQ can greatly improve the audio when used to fine tune the tonal balance. EQ is great for room compensation in the bass, tiny tweaks, loudness compensation (Fletcher Munson) and high treble rejuvenation (compensate for your age related hearing loss). The company miniDSP is a popular option for the hardware. Dirac is a popular option for the DSP firmware. Usually these products provide a bypass mode to allow the music to route through it 100% unchanged, if you want to A/B compare. DSP EQ is used for precision calibration in modern active speakers and automotive audio.

[@shipsahoy1793]

EQ is great for those reasons you cited in the analog world also. This idea of EQ being faulty is total horseshit.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@shipsahoy1793 Yes, it's horseshit. Even a US$200,000 system can sound better with some EQ tweaking. I've been listening to numerous extremely expensive systems and always tell myself that Loudness compensation is such a big issue even more so for the most expensive system where your hearing will cause a narrow-band tonal balance at low volumes. If you want the best listening enjoyment, EQ is awesome. Of course, EQ can harm the audio fidelity when not used carefully. EQ tweaking should be done AFTER the system has been optimized acoustically (speaker placement, room treatment) to stay within a slim envelope of EQ.

[@woopygoman]

@@shipsahoy1793 I think the reason why so many audiophiles dis EQ is because there's so much crappy software EQ out there and even crappy hardware EQ! Plus there's the issue of misuse. It can do more harm than good.

[@shipsahoy1793]

@@woopygoman You raise some good valid points! Hardware and software can sometimes be a problem, and any tool, when used by the incompetent, can lead to misconceptions. Oh well.. and the wheel rolls on …

[@karledwards2319]

The reason most preamps don't have bass and treble controls is that they are crude, a one size fits all solution with no adjustment other than gain with a fixed frequency response. DSP on the other hand is easily adjusted for center frequency, gain, Q, and filter type. Multiple digital filters can be used selectively and tailored to each systems needs.

[@stephenstevens6573]

When octave records records a track, that board is nothing but a huge equalizer. So, don't say that you are not a fan of eq. The recording engineer eqs the tracks as they are recorded. If your personal musical taste differs from that of the engineer, then using an equalizer is a natural choice for altering that signal more to your liking. I spent a significant part of my life playing live music, being in the studio and after my playing days, working as a live music engineer on the soundboard. Processing music of any kind is totally wrapped up in EQ. Audiophiles saying that tone controls of any kind is heresy is simply hubris.

[@jimbennett2795]

I've heard that bass and treble controls on pre amps flips the music out of phase and that's why NONE of the high end pre amps have them. Can somebody explain the real problem with them please?

[@shipsahoy1793]

👍Come in here dear boy, have a cigar! No Eq..?!🤣Surely humorous.

[@shipsahoy1793]

@@jimbennett2795 sounds like bullshit to me . The entire job of a preamp is take a signal from a source and prepare it for presentation through a power amp to drive speakers. In the case of a phono preamp, it’s intent is to boost and EQ the signal to prepare it’s entry into a line level preamp input. All this shit about bypassing tone controls is about signal purity. Filters are always there regardless.. You can still achieve a transparent sound in spite of tone circuitry.

[@finscreenname]

Exactly. The audiophile way is listen to what is given to you and if you dont like it for any reason then dont listen. Kind of like buying a car from a dealer and being told if you dont like the rims and tires and want to change them then dont buy the car. I love the Go Go's but their first two albums might as well have been recorded on a wax drum. I am not depriving myself of (imho) great music just because the engineer was asleep at the wheel.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@finscreenname that's why audiophile is another word for idiot

[@finscreenname]

Hi pass, low pass filters, crossovers, Bass and treble controls, balance, interconnects, pre amps, power amps, cables, room treatments, bass traps, listening chair position, speaker position, etc, etc, etc and yet an EQ is a bridge to far....

[@Harald_Reindl]

Audiofools...

[@kishoregidwani9598]

Not all recordings are perfect or are suited to individual listener. Since hearing choices vary, EQ helps to customize sound as per liking. In my case analogue EQ helped to give more weight to extra big and powerful speakers.

[@mat.b.]

I'm a big fan of EQing. I prefer analog tone controls over digital. Sure, digital has more fine tuning (and I use it for that on one system, i use both!) but analog is limited to factory set shaping; but digital is also more prone to clipping, and analog tends to be much noisier. It's a pick your poison situation. That said, I've always found analog EQing to have the best tone and sound. I have analog bass controls that always (always!) go deeper and richer than any digital EQ could do, if I did it digitally it would clip and sound muddy and not nearly reach as deep. Digital is like a scalpel and is great for minor tweaking, especially for treble since you can cut specific frequencies; but for bass and mids analog is king.

[@andydelle4509]

Don't like bass and treble controls? How about we also throw an old DBX expander box into the chain! Remember those? (I have three, a 119, DBX1, and a DBX3) EQ is a tool. As long as there is a bypass switch I see no issues at all. Like any tool, use it only as you need it.

[@SJMessinwithBoats]

It's still Ok to have eq's and gizmo expanders. They just will never make it into the high end or purist bibles.

[@duanewalker1011]

I own the dbx Soundfield 1a speakers, dbx 5bx ds, dbx sub synthesizer and an ADC eq. Utilization of that equipment and proper speaker placement can produce astounding results.

[@ericnortan9012]

I have an RME dac with DSP. Bass, treble, loudness and a parabolic EQ. I don't really use them, but the EQ is nice to play with. I have a terrible L shaped room and the EQ works nice to calm the bass response when we are rocking out, I can target the offending freqs and cut them.

[@allansh828]

it's quite odd that using DSP EQ inside RME DAC sound slightly smoother than using Roon EQ.

[@ericnortan9012]

@@allansh828 I agree it is very smooth. I have used many anologe EQs over the years and most of them (except for very high end that I didn't own) seemed to add audible distortions. Not usually terrible but definitely noticble by me. With the RME I get a black background, just dead silence, no filtered sound. I couldn't say about Roon. Not a fan of the built in stuff on my computer or any apps that I have used though. I do believe messing with the sound is best at the digital stage, then the anologe signal remains "pure" , at least to the signal the DAC puts out. Which in my eye keeps noise to a minimum. If any of that makes sense.

[@andrewfurst5711]

I wish more DACs used the RME approach. Although I don't have an RME DAC (I'm happy with my SMSL VMV D1SE), the RME ADI-2 (in most recent form) really is several tools in one: DAC, Pre-Amp, Equalizer/loudness, and headphone amp. While some DACs have a pre-amp function and headphone output, those are afterthoughts and don't compare with a dedicated pre-amp or headphone amp, while on the RME they are said to be similar to fairly high quality separates. And no DAC (that I'm familiar with) has the EQ ability of RME. PLUS the more recent RME DACs have tone controls right on the remote control. Although the RME DAC with remote is fairly expensive at about $1300 US (with remote), when you add up all the features its quite a bargain.

[@ericnortan9012]

@@andrewfurst5711 Ya, I bought it for the versatility. You can use all or some or none of the functions and it really performs to any need. Flawlessly to my ears. I'm sure many DACs are just as good for DA processing, but the added functionality put it over the top for me. I use it as a pre-amp, but I also own Tube pre-amp I feed with it to get that tube tone. Happy with it both ways.

[@bksve6505]

Yap.the RME is a great DAC. I am using the PEQ to adjust to my favorite room curve, to reduce a bass resonance and to compensate differences in old recordings ( versus new recordings). Source is always digital. For me it makes more sense to use an EQ than swapping components or cables. For sure it is cheaper.

[@soundgebob]

True 100% 😮 also, the equipment is a part of the EQ. if it's a digital or analog, it doesn't matter

[@improvsax]

Since you are talking about an ‘end user’ that all makes sense. I certainly use EQ when editing live music recordings (for me- multitrack to digital). It could be various reasons, perhaps I don’t particularly like the response of the microphone for the source, perhaps just trying to balance the ‘mix’. Thanks for the videos.

[@sailormansteve7642]

I would like to see an EQ for people with hearing loss. It would be great if I could enter my hearing loss graph and have the EQ automatically boost the correct frequencies the correct amount so that I can hear the music the way it was recorded. There are a lot of older audiophiles who would be able to use this. This would be a lot like a hearing aid built into your stereo.

[@biketech60]

Thanks , I hadn't considered this possibility !

[@Fastvoice]

No problem to get such a graph from a specialized hearing aids shop with audio lab. Every city has at least one. But you'll be surprised how steep the curve can come down in higher frequencies (above 7-8 kHz when you're older). Nothing sensible to compensate here for a EQ in your system because the amount of more dB needed would be way too high. That's the job of hearings aids which do exactly what you wish for.

[@sailormansteve7642]

@@Fastvoice The problem with hearing aids is the microphones and speakers are very low quality. Size is much more important than music sound quality. Music through airpods sound a lot better than music through my hearing aids. Streaming music through hearing aids has very bad sound quality in comparison to a good pair of headphones. If I could combine great speakers and amplification with the proper EQ graph that would be the ticket.

[@Fastvoice]

@@sailormansteve7642 So go for it and try! Just get your hearing curve from a doctor or an audio lab. Then load your music into the computer/digital audio workstation, grab a graphic EQ plugin and create a reverse EQ curve to your hearing curve. The latter is completely free if you have a Mac with GarageBand - there's a plugin included called "Channel EQ" which let you do this (there are similar ways in the Windows world I guess). Then listen to it on your audio system and tell me if that sounds right for you. I highly doubt it.

[@pablohrrg8677]

It may already exist. My cell phone has "Adapt Sound" which test your hearing and adjust the sound to your personal need.

[@RedFightingMood]

Hi Paul... Not an analog letter but a digital question, so I hope You'll love it just as much 😇 I'm thinking abaout buying a DAC/AMP combo and can't jump over the thing of digital vs analog volume control knobs... In the past analog knobs have been causing channel imbalance in the proces of adjusting the volume while the digital ones resolve the issue by correcting all those volume levels and all... So how do You see it and what is it today? For instance iFi Audio is all about analog volume knobs... Why is that when they can just get digital and go on like normal audio gear companies? Should We all fear the channel imbalance of the iFi volume knobs or is it a thing of the past? THX in advance kind sir Paul 🤗

[@JamesWang007]

Good points sir, but I'd like to add that vinyl = eq. Speakers, such as Watt Puppies with big ole woofers are eq. If you like some chorus or flange effects to your guitar, there's that phase shift and in small amounts is almost magical. Ain't pure that's fer sure, red pill or blue pill haha.

[@slerched]

Analog us analog, digital use digital makes perfect sense. In terms of using EQ, well I have to admit, I am hard of hearing and have hearing aids. I will adjust EQ to match my hearing aid curve (in much, much, much better granularity than I have in the HA itself) so that I can remove the hearing aids and still hear what the artist expected (as close as I am able to replicate that giving me crappy hearing, of course). Parametric EQ, with L/R level EQ control is a game changer for me. But EQ, as Paul says, isn't for everyone. For me, it's great.

[@sailormansteve7642]

What program are you using for your EQ?

[@slerched]

@@sailormansteve7642 I do all my EQ inside Jriver Media Center. The Parametric EQ gives per channel adjustments and works pretty well. I admit I primarily on use the hearing aid EQ I need for earphones/headphones but have done on occasion for listening on loudspeakers.

[@stimpy1226]

Roon's Parametric Equalizer used judiciously until you get the hang of it is really wonderful and so is there algorithm for upsampling.

[@aceofspades6667]

klark teknik dn370 is what I own.. a 30 band 1/3 octave analog fully balanced EQ. I don't always use it but I put it in the chain when I want to change the frequency response of certain headphones. For example I like a +3 to +6 eq in sub bass region frequencies for HD800s.

[@johnk6837]

Obviously per your taste, but I would keep any Eqing within a +/-3db range at home. 3db is the perceived loudness of doubling or halving the audible signal, which should be more than enough to iron out any issues you hear in your system.

[@jimbennett2795]

Why don't high end pre amps have bass and treble controls? I've heard there is a phase problem when dealing with them. It would be nice to turn the bass down on MOFI records. I run Audio Research tube Amp and Pre amp and I remember back in the day when I bought them NONE of the high end equipment had them and everyone I talked to said it messed up the phase / sound. Love your channel by the way !

[@mrlazda]

There are some high-end preamp (not exactly high high end but in 10000$ range) with EQ on top of my head is that Mark Levinson made some.

[@SJMessinwithBoats]

@@mrlazda Don't see any current models with bass and treble controls, maybe I skimmed the website too fast. They have a Subsonic filter, 15hz, makes sense for Vinyl. They have a high pass at 80hz, that makes no sense to me to do that.

[@mrlazda]

@S J sorry, my bad, it does not have a name of Mark Levinson company, but Cello (other company created by Mark Levinson), and I do not know if it is still in production it was introduced in 80, I know for it bacouse my friend who is audiophile (I am not in litterla sense, I perfer studio equipment) and he like Mark Levinson product have it. The correct name is "Cello Palette Preamplifier" according to my friend.

[@doubleuseven]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an analog eq affect the signal just passing it through? I mean, there are physical components affecting the signal in one way or another. I would appreciate if this was an option when inserting a modeled eq. On or off, not just 50/60hz hiss. Or it is just hiss we get "extra" with an analog eq?

[@michaelturner4457]

Reading through the comments, I think the melted looking PC keyboard was a main talking point from this video.

[@evedubwise]

Thanks! This really helped me! 🙏

[@glenncurry3041]

As you say, if you are forced into the digital world, then yes perhaps DSP is better as it works in the time domain rather than frequency. But if you are staying analog. room and speaker placement is the best tone controls.

[@greg1030]

EQ could never be that important to me to fix any recording that needed it to then buy a $5K hardware version of a Pultec or other hardware version. But like he said, I would never do an A/D conversion just to use a plug-in. Happily, I left vinyl long ago, so EQ plug-ins (well designed ones) should always give me clean changes on all of my source material. Trouble is THE most common damage inflicted on my vintage 1960s/70s recordings was dynamic range compression-and usually applied globally and excessively in the mastering room. These "necessary" sonic crimes were legitimized to prevent overloads on AM radio and so record labels wouldn't get complaints about mistracking from consumers and their cheap vinyl players-or even SOTA turntables of the day. So now those with high res systems end up victimized because much of our favorite music that was so badly compressed sounds like shit because there's next to no dynamic range. And unless there's some kind of AI-driven solution years from now, there's no way to restore those lost dynamics.

[@frankienebula]

Do larger 18 woofers require more power then 15 woofers?

[@anonymex22]

Also the question is not a good one. Primary usage of EQ at end time is isophonic curve reproduction (Which normal people never be able to reproduce in the low end) regarding room speaker and device capabilities! Changing the sound to your taste is a bad idea as your certainly not as good as producer/artist! As soon as you have the right/most representation of the isophonic curve you can lower or boost the both end according your taste (which i also do not recommend) , that's why amplifier never get a mid range if done in the state of the art! If you use analog which i do recommend you need an eq behind/in front of each analog device specially for tape, to correct in case of need Very high end/record curve in case of low speed usage/no adjustable bias , on vinyl also to correct 16RPM in the very high end. In digital the source should not be modified as even if bad quality reproduction, there is no issue regarding bandwidth! In most case unless your on dsd 256/512 it sound bad because it's bad nothing more, adding mathematical (digital) correction to something bad = something bader!

[@bluesky6361]

Audyssey MultEQ XT32 rocks!

[@Oystein87]

Love that I can deactivate tone controls completely in my amps menu💖 But my tone controls are digital... Don't need to be analog in a amp.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

Great advice IMHO. I use only one source which is a digital streamer/DAC with nice triode analogue output. The player software (moOde) has a parametric equalizer built in, and it works well to fix up the dips and peaks at the listening position. I see no degradation in sound quality with the dsp in the signal chain but big improvement in sounding natural with a flat response.

[@davidfromamerica1871]

“I live in a Digital World” “I live in a Analog World” Someone should write the lyrics to those two songs.

[@geddylee501]

Rush come close with 'Analogue kid' and 'Digital man' ...

[@HotMetalVideos]

Paul, what ever happened to the project you spoke of in past years to have a digtal EQ that stored meta data so that anytime that album or song is played, your stored EQ is automatically recalled?

[@bladeofky]

Oh hey I have the exact same keyboard and mouse

[@anonymex22]

To finish if you need correction after isophonic alignment and you will (even if not recommended) there are two main reasons: - 80% of mastered sound is very poor in the mid/high range resulting in a +5/+25db in the low range so you need the lower the low end quite all the time. The good reference are old mastering not new! it's easy to hear when you're aligned! Specially digital which is furiously and unnaturally high in the 20/60Hz range! Why because loudness war and mass quality devices heavy reduction in the low end and for digital unatural low end bandwidth behavior well known in electronic music, etc, ask JMJ he well fought for this problem unfortunately still active! - You have hears disabilities! In that case to have worked with that kind of people, you need to switch to analog, digital distortion are so huge that it's painful for these people. One of my friend terminated with only piano or bass digital sound! Unless you can afford dsd 512 files, better go to analog less prone to distortion in the mid/high range. It's better to 1-4% distortion on all the bandwidth instead of 1-100% with digital (even filtered at dac stage) for these people! And no having a dac with 0.000000000000001% thd won't solve the issue! Again digital full of technical stupidity dreams...

[@ditto_75]

Everyone's opinion in what sounds good varies. An equalizer and or Dsp is in my opinion an absolute must have tool for any type of audio. So, you just dropped 2 grand on a pair of speakers and your heart broken because they just don't sound good. Scrape up and buy a Dayton Audio Dsp 408 (can't be beat for the price) or if using your Pc as a source then use Equalizer Apo and I guarantee those speakers are going to sound great and just how you want them too.

[@keithwiebe1787]

I've been using my automatic dsp setup in my Yamaha (Ypao) receiver to eq my homemade khorns and it takes away the midrange fatigue and boosts the highest freq. where the ev t35 tweeter drops off. I don't feel bad doing it as Klipsch's own flagship Jubilee now boasts dsp.

[@jonathanginofilippi]

Musicolet on the cell phone ... Has31 band EQ ... So lovely

[@Psyclonus7]

Unrelated, but what kind of keyboard is that?

[@michaelturner4457]

Microsoft Natural Keyboard.

[@digggerrjones7345]

@@michaelturner4457 Actually, it's the Microsoft Sculpt keyboard.

[@laurelhardy4064]

It looks like someone has put the keyboard in the oven.

[@JSSTUDIO-wr2jq]

👍

[@jonthurston8275]

Digital EQ is clearly problematic since, for a start, there is no digital boost beyond 0dBFS so attenuation affects bit depth especially in midrange and treble (so called HF cramping).

[@andydelle4509]

Yes, but who delivers content that close to full scale? Reference is -20dBFS.

[@pablohrrg8677]

The simpler, the better.

[@gotham61]

I thought Paul wasn’t a PCM fan?

[@snoozzell]

You can't eq dsd without very specialized hardware

[@gotham61]

@@snoozzell That’s my point

[@brandonburr4900]

Paul. I know you guys used audeze headphones. They have always taken very well to eq like most planar headphone do. I need to not belive this till I purchase I pair of isine audeze headphones using the iPhone eq adjustments. Now using equalizer apo ( witheace ui ) for headphones i finally it. It . Perhaps this won't translate as well to the speaker crowd but it definately does for the headphone crowd. It can take an ordinary audeze lcd 2 and turn it into any sonic flavour you wish it to be.

[@Gary_Hun]

SOMEBODY left their computer input equipment on an overheating speaker amp...

[@NeilDSouza7]

Use HQ instead of EQ - LOL🤣🤣🤣

[@SJMessinwithBoats]

Pauls gonna campaign about the tone controls again. Anything for controversy

[@Jigaboo1929]

Good morning I farted Paul

[@digggerrjones7345]

This guy is hypocrisy and contradiction incarnate. When any given manufacturer "voices" a component, they are "EQ-ing" them in essence.

[@anonymex22]

Analog eq are way better than digital eq even if technically less flexible, further more dsp are working in a virtual mathematical world which result in complete lost of integrity and awful sound when going to far in the + range! Just good for again a full digital chain who worth nothing because at the end always finish into an analog amplifier! just try tu push a +12db at 16Khz on both of them the analog will make great result, the dsp awful ones! Again digital is only technical dream full of bugs! When you can always use analog gears! Today it is well known that digital is useful only when you can't afford a real gear, but never should be the way to go if you can afford the real one! Specially for end users there is absolutely no interest in destructing more the original source with DSP! It can be tolerated for music makers (the more rich are using mixer eq instead of dsp) but those one always finish straight into one analog one before the final analog print! Remembers digital perfection is a pure myth!

[@dean6816]

Music's not meant to be perfect!