Analyzing Design in the 2014 PHB, Chapter 2: Races - 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons

[@brockburker5760]

I think the biggist problem plauging 5E is that the rules have become an oral tradition. a great example of this is Uno, everyone THINKS they know how to play Uno, but if you challenge a draw 4 or tell everyone to count up score now that the round is over then you'll get stared at like you just puked in a bowl and started eating from it. Most people who start playing 5E have a friend help them build their character, presenting character creation as a bunch of dice rolls and muiltiple choice questions, meaning that they never read the rulebook and thus chose there race based off of preconcived knowlege, the picture, and maybe ask what a Tiefling is. The newbie then learns the game by playing at the table, the only time they need to consult the rulebook is when they level up, and when they make their second character, "well I know about Tieflings John played one!" So, the average 5E players has never read this section, let alone the rest of the book. This is a real shame as ideas such as Ambition/quest for imortality (literal and figurative) being what makes humans unique or Tieflings inbuilt nature VS nurture debate is lost in part due to the oral tradition that is 5E.

[@Dracoaurion]

5e PHB had the right number of Elves, 3; High, Wood, and Dark.

[@WandererEris]

I'm so glad you're talking about 3e. Not many people do these days, and even less seem to acknowledge that it was used as a template for 5e, which streamlined and stripped it down. Also, I'm pretty sure the Dragonborn debuted in Races of the Dragon, a 3e book.

[@DungeonDigest]

Ya learn something new every day. I didn't even know that book existed; my familiarity with 3E is limited to comparative research since I didn't come up playing it, so thank you for pointing this out! Super wild to see this. Probably warrants a short correction video; I'll have to get started on that

[@talscorner3696]

3e vet, here. I would be quite fine with 3.X being cast to the shadow realm xD

[@petegiant]

I don't get how all the different races inhabit a locale without it feeling like a cosplay con, with most acting as humans.

[@AMillennialNerd]

Ok, I watched your first video last week and was eager to see what you'd cook for this one. Thankfully, you delivered great content. I gleefully clicked on the Subscribe button.

[@TheGateShallStand]

Good time to tell people to start playing 1st and second edition ADnD

[@Kodiie]

Optional title: Oops, all Elves !

[@thepokemonmailman9454]

A bit outside of the scope of the video but I think that flight is alot more powerful than magic resistance from Yuanti and Saitars. Especially with an inexperienced DM. It trivialises most exploration, and because of the Lift/Carry rules along with grappeling you can act as a medivac durring combat while basically being immune to most melee attacks. I mean a basic method of balance would have been limited flight from 1-4 (gliding) but 5+ you have flight so that at least the wizard has the flight spell which is slightly better then your flight. Anyway, brilliant video.

[@DungeonDigest]

I just realized I didn't even put the flying races on my garbo-to-OP meter; we'll say they're so far to the OP Side that they're offscreen lol 100% agree with you though I don't mess with flying races. They're just such a hassle to DM for and the benefit is trivializing the game to the point you're not even really trying anymore...they just don't feel fun.

[@BlakeFaeMorton]

I think gnomes are more expressive bc the default lore is so boring we collectively decided to use Pathfinder Gnomes instead. 😂 I think the appeal is literally just the fun of playing a weird lil guy (or gal).

[@rickrogers8735]

I'm hoping you will put together a big list at the end of your analysis and prioritize at least the top 10 or 20 missed opportunities in 5.14e. It would be interesting to see whether the audience you collect through the process would vote the same way. Good series so far!

[@birubu]

Regarding magic resistance, it got soft nerfed. You are no longer resistant to all magic, only spells specifically. This means that satyrs and yuan-ti no longer get advantage against, for example, Beholders’ eye rays. This brings it down to a level that’s powerful but not all-encompassingly like it was prior. Notably, Gnome Cunning was also updated in this way for the Deep Gnome, but base gnome 2014 retains its “against magic” wording which makes it significantly more powerful, especially as the worst magic effects are often mental (although, they may have updated base gnome for 2024, I’m not sure myself as I don’t own the new books yet). Additionally, new monster design have replaced spells on their stat blocks with “spell-like abilities”, which basically copies spell text and changes the name of the spell. This effectively means that that “spell” is no longer affected by magic resistance and counterspell. See: MPMM’s Evoker Wizard’s Sculpted Explosion ability.

[@DungeonDigest]

Yeah I think given a few more years worth of monster releases, if they stick with the new pattern then magic resistance is probably gonna see a fall off in terms of its relative power. At the time the PHB first came out though, and frankly for most of 5Es run, magic resistance was really, really solid. But your added context is really good info for people to bear in mind, thank you for that.

[@CalebWillden]

Nice structure and appealing voice and visuals! In my experience, the ability score bonuses form half-elves can actually be quite potent when using Point-Buy to determine your abilitiy stores or if you roll particularly good stats. Makes it fairly easy to get 2 or even 3 abilities up to a 16 (+3) from level 1, which most other races can't do. I believe Variant Human exists because Feats are a variant rule and Humans in prior editions always got a bonus feat. Even though +1 in all abilities CAN be nice, they could have also given two or three skill proficiencies, like as if you took the Skilled feat. When I play gnomes, I enjoy the eccentricities that the race basically gives me permission to bring out. I can be zany and say or do things that make no sense and it seems more natural and acceptable than it would with most others. I also enjoy the idea of being small, lanky, and unassuming. I quite enjoy Pathfinder's lore for gnomes, where they have explicit ties to the Feywild and their health degrades until they die if they don't live exciting enough lives. I definitely understand the lack of appeal, though. Honestly, though, if they were removed from 5e, I'd probably shrug and move on.

[@DungeonDigest]

The half-elf does flourish in point-buy, you're definitely right. I think I don't weight the racial ASI assignments in the PHB much just because of how the Tasha's rule really changed the game on that front and made it a non-issue, and its such a good & easy fix that I'm baffled it didn't carry into the 2024 PHB -_- there's so many races I never would've touched because of the ASI assignments but that now I can run with whatever class and just see what their racial features can do in those classes, and thats such a good thing. Dead on about Variant human, although I'd argue feats should never have been considered optional to begin with: I don't know anyone that bans them. It feels like a "this didn't get tested enough for us to feel confident in them, soooo if they're unbalanced just ban em" kind of solution. I liked the BG3 take on the human though; a free skill pick makes sense and that militia training for polearm and shield proficiency was novel. No other race gets shield proficiency. I didn't know that about pathfinder gnomes; that's pretty genius for explaining their shtick honestly. I appreciate the insight!

[@TalesFromElsewhereGames]

Another great breakdown!

[@DungeonDigest]

Thank you kindly sir!

[@jensjohansen8050]

Nice to hear you got a mic upgrade since your first video =) A great video overall. I hope that you will dive more into what you would change and how. Maybe that is coming later? I completely agree with how WotC needs pick a lane. IPersonally, I'd rather see a stronger Standard Array and then drop all racial ability improvements. Keep the flavourful abilities, but no +2 STR =). And I don't understand why Low-Light vision from 3e got shafted. It is a flavorful semi-darkvision.

[@DungeonDigest]

Yyyyeah that first mic set up was rough, but I won't say I love the new one either; gotta record in a coat closet with an old Razr right now XD Someday I'll be able to upgrade my recording situation; we'll get there... I've been making notes here and there throughout the scripts for when stuff is egregious enough to warrant a need for change and proposed some alternatives, but those suggestions ARE pretty spread out: I def want to cap this whole series off with a pass over the 2024 PHB and basically take a checklist of all my grievances with the 2014 PHB and see if those got addressed (I've noted in a few places in future scripts where that's happened but definitely haven't been thorough yet)

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Humans: Adequately flavored garbage.

[@sketchyfox7368]

Honestly Yuan-ti is very tame as a race in mordenkainen and is one of the better balanced races in that book. It was really strong in Volo’s, but their magic resistance only applies to spells now which is a very niche feature when compared to advantage against all magical effects as it used to be, and their poison immunity got downgraded to resistance. So now they have two decent but quite situational resistances (poison and spells), some mostly flavourful racial spellcasting and that’s pretty much it. Compare it to elves with prof bonus misty step (especially with insane riders like damage resistance for every type like shadar-kai), initiative smites on bugbears that break incredibly fast when combined with action surge and gloomstalkers, permanent flight from Aaracokra, and so on so forth. The book’s definitely full of broken options, but Yuan-ti is far from being one of them.

[@DungeonDigest]

Volo's yuan-ti were absolutely cracked with a damage immunity of all things, but I'd maintain having advantage on saves vs spells and the poisoned condition (both very widespread) and resistance to one the most common non-weapon damage types in the game is still one of the more optimal feature sets out there. Plus they get a free cast of suggestion once a day, which is a very powerful spell for its level. I think yuan-ti are still really high up there. Bugbears are probably one of the best melee-oriented races out there thanks to Long-Limbed and Surprise Attack, Surprise Attack on its own is very good, but its not a guarantee since but it's contingent on good initiative which requires some investment to secure consistently in 5E. Flying is always gonna be too ridiculously useful on player characters to be permissible in any game I run, same reason they were banned in AL for so long (still not sure why they got unbanned). But yeah I'd agree the shadar-kai/eladrin/astral elf are *probably* ahead of yuan-ti just by dent of having all the elf features AND free misty step multiple times a day.

[@franswaafranswaa5026]

Their designs are alright but the borderline racist direct plagiarism of meso American cultures (painted too with a particularly wide brush) rubs me the wrong way.

[@Lycaon1765]

Another banger! :)

[@billylin8800]

Personally, While species were good as they were i do sometimes wish they were actually more mechanically hefty, to make them a real foundation of building your character,

[@DungeonDigest]

I can see how that could be desirable but I think its probably for the best they're as simple as they are, as far as that goes toward meeting 5Es goals of being more lightweight than prior editions. Plus the more mechanically complex they become, the more likely you are to run into the optimal option constriction that arose in previous editions and early 5E where certain races were pretty pidgeon-holed into certain classes because of their ASI spread.

[@jamesm1567]

Good vid. I appreciste the EQ change on your voice from video one, but i think some more softening would improve things. Too much high end. Add some compression and eq to a bit lower just to get rid of that shiney sharp frequencies that make it a tad painful to listen to on headphones.

[@DungeonDigest]

That's super helpful thank you! The recording situation is less than ideal for sure and I don't have a background in soundwork so I'm literally just scrouging youtube for resources on that stuff.

[@jamesm1567]

@@DungeonDigest don't worry you're doing fine. Editing in post can fix recording shortcomings. Just remember compression and EQ.

[@Cosmic_K13]

Will you also be evaluating the power of setting specific racial options? If not, what would you rate the shifter overall? Im in the camp that they are pretty weak for the concept they are going for in comparison to even just the phb races.

[@DungeonDigest]

This project is primarily aimed at comparing the core rulebooks from the 2014 release to the new ones coming out this year. It'll be a long one, but if this channel does well enough there's no reason not to dig into other types of content: tier lists, module deep dives, DMing advice, worldbuilding stuff...I got a few ideas lol As far as the shifter goes: they're pretty middling power-wise. They're not the worst by any means, but they're definitely not a "strong" pick. The skill proficiency is a fairly standard racial trait, nothing bad but nothing crazy. The temporary hit points from the Shifting trait are a nice little damage buffer once per short rest, and a couple of the shifter forms offer some decent value: Beasthide's +1AC is nothing to sneeze at, and Swiftstride's movement and disengage + move 10ft on reaction is also a nice, although it requires a decent grasp of movement tech to benefit from since the withdrawal distance is pretty short; the ideal circumstance is you've baited something with multiattack and only melee attacks into spending its full movement to close distance with you, and by withdrawing 10ft you're out of reach for all attacks following the first. It's an effective kiting tool on the right class. Longtooth and Wildhunt are pretty underwhelming though.

[@Cosmic_K13]

@@DungeonDigest agreed on longtooth. Wildhunt has specific utility on barbs to nullify the downsides of reckless attacks. This also makes prone fighting and fighting while flanked a decent strategy. Conceptually, I'm a massive lycanthrope fan, but shifter feels like a pale imitation.

[@DungeonDigest]

@@Cosmic_K13 Yeah I don't *love* the shifter mechanically but they occupy an interesting place in Eberron lorewise, which I do appreciate. The Ravenloft book would've been a great place to go all out with some sort of lycan-lite lineage to go alongside the dhampir. Give it a once-per-long rest transformation that lasts character level x 5 minutes, and grants rage-like damage & damage resistances that requires silvered weapons to mitigate, claws or bite attacks that can also be used with a bonus action, a movement speed buff, advantage on perception checks involving smell, and MAYBE pack tactics. That feels more like a werewolf to me. Can't speak to the balance there cuz that's all spit-balling, but it's where I would start.

[@mirieus]

When I DM, player characters are always human, the other races are too overpowered, the classes are already too strong.

[@DungeonDigest]

Hey, your world, your rules, right? I don't allow flying races for the same reason, but my players like variety, so might as well leave the rest of it open. I am strongly considering removing darkvision as a racial trait from future games though: I really like that shift in Shadowdark and I think it'd do a lot to make things more interesting, so we'll see.

[@mirieus]

I would remove Darkvion too, it makes dungeons a lot easier for players

[@brycejordan8987]

I do have to ask do you mean only generic humans because variant human is generally considered to be one of the best races in the game (admittedly dependent on what feats you select). I'd also go as far as saying that while generic human is bottom tier, dragonborn are arguably even worse. Fine to restrict things but was curious.

[@mirieus]

@@brycejordan8987 generic human, no feats, no multiclass, no death saving throws. The DM determines what subclasses can be used by the players, depending on the setting.

[@Zooker25]

Just make your fights harder.

[@milo8425]

One elf is too many elves

[@DungeonDigest]

Found the dwarf

[@methmeth]

I am happy they got rid of the half races in the 2024 rules, honestly. It feels like all the bad ways we treat biracial people. Like thinking about why half-elves/orcs only mention their non-human half of their lineage gives me the ick.

[@DungeonDigest]

You know, that's fair. There's def some problematic stuff wrapped up in that dynamic, esp. with the old half-orc stuff. But I'd also be lying if I said I didn't miss them; the vibe of not-fully-belonging-one-way-or-the-other hits stronger with half-orcs and half-elves than I think with any other character option; it's hard to replicate that as effectively as they managed to nail it. Plus there's the angle that cutting them from the book is a form of erasure, which I don't think I really buy personally but I could see how someone could make that argument. The poor guys are in a rough situation anyway you slice it, though, I think that's fair to say.

[@The-0ni]

I am actually biracial and growing up seeing half-orc and half-elf actually made me feel seen. Reading entries about wanting to identify with one or both cultures and never being fully welcomed was true for me at least.

[@zednumar6917]

Remember in 2E when they went to the trouble of creating things like planetouched orcs as variant half-orcs that were not part human? Pepperidge Farm remembers...