Analyzing the Guitar Technique of Ida Presti

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

Many thanks to all the people who have commented with such great insight into Ida Presti’s life and technique. As you might can tell from the video, I was unaware that her right hand technique involved playing off of the right side of the nail as opposed to the more commonly used left side, and although you might think I would have noticed this while studying all this footage, I sure didn’t lol. This certainly explains quite a lot about her hand position, and although part of me wishes I could redo the video with this in mind, I’m going to leave it be. Of course a part 2 is always a possibility in the future. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their insight.

[@crasigb]

She is amazing. I personally think her hand position is to get the cleanest nail attack. It is likely a lot to do with the shape on her nails guiding the position of her wrist.

[@picksalot1]

In the mid 1970's, Ako Ito and Henri Dorigny stayed at my house for a few days for a Concert they were giving at the local University. I had the good fortune to have a few informal "lessons" with Ako Ito, protege of Ida Presti. Ako Ito explained how the strings were plucked starting from the pinky side of the fingertips and slides towards the thumb direction. At the time, this was called the "French Style" of plucking, in honor of Ida Presti. I adopted the style for a few years, as it had some immediate advantages in terms of clarity, precision, speed of the stroke, volume, and less ware on the fingernails. Ako Ito almost exclusively used ami rest stroke when playing scales, which she played very rapidly, easily, and with great precision, just like the virtuosic technique of Ida Presti. It was a marvel to watch her play close up, sitting right next to her! Ako Ito was always very pleasant, cordial, happy, and generous with her time. She was a joy to speak with, and showed me how to play in the French Style of Ida Presti. Henri Dorigny was much more reserved, and practiced long hours alone in his bedroom. I barely spoke with him. Both were very committed to playing in the Duo tradition of Ida Presti and Alexandre Lagoya, and worked diligently to emulate their style. Like Lagoya, Henri Dorigny usually played scales with index and middle fingers, plucking from the thumb side of the fingertips towards the pinky side. Listening to them play was very much like hearing the recordings of Presti and Lagoya, in style, repertoire, and tone. It was like having a Time Machine. Ida Presti was able to simultaneously hold down four E notes on the guitar fingerboard, a truly extraordinary feat that astounded audiences of the time. Ako Ito showed me that she was able to perform the same feat with her equally small hands, fretting the 5th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd strings, leaving the 6th and 1st strings to ring open. I have large hands, and it's a struggle to do that on the very best of days. I ultimately abandoned the French Style due to the awkward, and somewhat uncomfortable hand/wrist position, but often use the ami fingering for scale and similar passages.

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

Awesome info, thank you for sharing!

[@gilbertwalker3222]

In terms of the colours and the tones she got out of the instrument, she’s one of the best to ever do it. I often find myself preferring her recordings to Segovia’s.

[@ruggerobelloni4743]

I wonder why no one seems to know that around the age of 9 she studied with Maccaferri, which was confirmed to me in person when I visited him in New York in the 80s. At 87 he was still in awe of her genius and told me she repeated all phrases and passages taught INSTANTLY like someone who mastered the guitar in another life. Her right hand position is a variation of Mario's who learned it from Mozzani. Both men used a metal thumbpick as seen in many photos on the Harp guitars net. Mario also taught Len Williams who taught John. He played for me and his continuous tremolo like a mandolin ( Pami ami ) was like Mozzani's, Taraffo's and Terzi's. Maybe Mario's identification with Selmer and Django, whom he never met but called a miracle of Nature, has obscured his classical concert and teaching past.

[@TalentedDilittante]

Thank you. I didn't know that.

[@dedos-pima]

That flagpoling is a left over that some artists like Sabicas and many others learned with as children. The little finger was used to hold and pack together the other fingers together when making a chord such as E. I've asked about this over 30 years of living in Spain from many artists and they all, to a one, tell the same story. Like the two finger bar you will see Sabicas, Paco, and many others use, it's genesis is rooted in their early technique formation. Lack of strength made them find a crutch in these two techniques.

[@alwix4557]

Thanks for the video 🙏 Ida Presti was one of my teacher's teacher. I personally don't play with this wrist position and with the right side of the AMI nails (as she does), but it's interesting to know this technique exists and can work. Some great guitarists, like Thibaut Garcia and Emmanuel Rossfelder, still use this kind of technique. Cheers

[@reivax5742]

That right hand position is reminiscent of that taught/used by Agustín Barrios. I haven´t been able to find videos of Barrios playing, but you can see the position in various pics on google images. The 90-degree angle when playing apoyando is also similar to that used by Paco de Lucia when he plays picado very fast.

[@joyeverytime9229]

Thank you for sharing a very good and useful video May you always be successful.

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

Successful? Nah. Blessed? Only when I realize it.

[@eblackbrook]

Notice how in the section on pinkie flag-poling where you can see Lagoya behind her, he is often flag-poling right in sync with her. As to why flag-pole at one moment and not another, I think certain positions / arrangements of contraction of the fingers makes sticking out the pinkie more natural / favorable to the function of the hand. This is at least the case for some people (including myself).

[@PortlandGuitarDuo]

Very good insight on technique, I believe the final analysis would be, when you completed the basic classical guitar technique than you need to develop your own natural technique to achieve your best potencial . Would you be open doing a video on the Romero, Pepe Romero. Thank you, James manuele

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

Love your thoughts James. Pepe is one of my very favorite players, so as long as I can keep doing videos I will definitely cover him at some point.

[@miprofe1063]

Well tried and with some good observations! It's not surprising that you couldn't tell whether she was using rest or free stroke since she used something half way between the two. Her right hand 'turning the lid of a jar' movement was to apply greater leverage to the string in specific instances. As her hands were hyper-extensive, in many aspects she would be a difficult model for most others to follow in any detail.

[@fingerhorn4]

Presti is an example of why "technique" or hand position is secondary to what is going on her MIND. Way more than half of a gifted player's sound and performance resides in their musicality. This channel is in danger of sweeping that aside and relying on visual, rather than intellectual or creative cues to establish why one person is a better player than the next. It is interesting to see what great players are doing mechanically, but it's not that important. More interesting than her hand positions are her musical decisions.

[@ThibautKurt23]

Thanks for this one

[@ThibautKurt23]

Please try her husband, since hé had a longer career there is more footage available with very close look to his right hand. Or maybe some of his former students as Olivier Chassain or Emmanuel Rossfelder, or student of the first one like Thibaut Garcia (it's not me although we share the same first name and both play guitar), you will find the same hand position

[@calvinbeedle8534]

I wonder if she had her thumb in that position whilst doing rest stroke to cut the overtones from the other strings. Rock guitarists do this with their palms to clean the sound up. I tried it after watching this and it does have that effect.

[@JohnB.6251]

I second the request to do one the technique of Pepe Romero. Best tremolo on the planet, developed in a way you can feel like it's river flowing effortlessy by... - John B.

[@rjlchristie]

No no no. Her wrist isn't extremely elevated or "tall" at all. Rather, it is extremely turned. Generally it is actually quite low, hence she is constantly adjusting the hand. Also, it is as a consequence of the low wrist that her knuckle/basal finger segment angle is almost a straight line - and that in turn requires the adoption of the extreme 90deg angle between the basal segment and the middle segments of the fingers. Your faulty observation of wrist elevation has invalidated much of your analysis. Finally, no analysis of Presti can be taken seriously without addressing the consequences of her right-hand attack. She plays off the right-hand side of her fingertip/nails. It is fundamental to her hight hand technique. To read an analysis/promotion of Presti approach it is worthwhile to seek out articles on Presti by Alice Artz, who advocated the approach.

[@TalentedDilittante]

Mr Allred, Ida Presti follows her instincts--having felt her way into the guitar at an early age, under her father's tutelage--such that Andrés Segovia said after hearing and watching her at the age of 9 years, "I have nothing to teach her." He wisely meant that Ms. Presti played by instinct, i.e., naturally, and that it obviously worked for her. (Frederick Noad taught me that there is NO difference between the right hand position for tirando or for apoyando (when playing naturally and, therefore, easily). Having learned that way, there is no visible or real difference of the position of my right hand when playing the free stroke and for the rest stroke. (BTW, for a long time, Ms Presti claimed to play off the right side of her nail, but that was because, when playing arpeggios, her wrist was straight--giving her that (misleading) feeling. She was somewhat embarrassed to acknowledge the truth when someone pointed out that she actually played off the left side of the nail, as did everyone else.)

[@demejiuk5660]

Not an expert but I think she's the GOAT.

[@wilfriedhalter5190]

In such a context background music is really disturbing !

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

Lol too bad then

[@eblackbrook]

You didn't say anything about how she used her nails on the strings. It is claimed that she (and Lagoya also) played using the right edge of the nails rather than the typical left edge. Given that idea, I found her wrist angle in these videos somewhat surprising, . Did you omit mention of that because you simply cannot really tell in the video footage, or do you have some doubts?

[@CharlesAlexanderAllred]

I have never heard that, but it’s very interesting. Her angle of hand position is quite unique, so to me it seems possible she could be using the right side of the finger tip to play. But in these videos my observations are for the most part based on what I can see.

[@eblackbrook]

@@CharlesAlexanderAllred There are some videos here teaching this technique from someone who (I think) learned directly from Ida Presti: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4iUoXeOo7h6rqs

[@eblackbrook]

@@CharlesAlexanderAllred I switched to outside nail edge playing a few years ago trying to improve my ergonomics, having read about this and thinking I was adopting Presti's technique. But I hadn't seen any videos like what you show here. I arrived at a totally different hand position, something more like what lute players use. Works for me, but then, I never had any hope of being remotely in Presti's league anyway!

[@jamesrenz9475]

Alice Artzt, who studied with Presti, has a number of detailed videos on KZbin describing and demonstrating Presti's right hand technique. Presti, according to Artzt, used the right side of the nails. Also, apparently when Presti went to Segovia for instruction at a young age, upon hearing her, he told her there was nothing more he could show her that she did not already know. Amazing player.

[@demejiuk5660]

That is WILD that you could go through a whole degree without ever becoming aware of here. I had heard of her before I even got serious about CG. There seems to be a disconnect between modern generations and OGs as you put it. In terms of technique, tone, performance practise and ideal instrument design. I remember teaching my teacher about the inégale rhythm after he blasted a player for using it. Pavel Steidl is still carrying the torch in this respect. But yeah my teacher had a real problem with Segovia and Carlevaro for their performance practices. (Rhythmic offences particularly). He was convinced this was a unique problem to guitarists as he was unaware of performance practices of before.