And The Mistakes Just Keep Coming - CATAMARAN BUILD (MJ Sailing - Ep 237)

[@SVHummingbird2]

Matt and Jessica, I have found that when back filling with foam, especially in an area with potentially flexible panels to clamp a backer against the side you want to remain flat to thus force the foam to spread in the desired directions...it has a mind of it's own and I have had it come out of the smallest openings even when I had large vents drilled to coax it where I wanted it to go. keep up the good work and don't get too discouraged by the set backs.

[@macman6107]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Would solve this issue really easily.

[@-RyN-23]

We used this trick when back filling gaps in areas hard to get to when building an insulating fiberglass camper shells

[@-RyN-23]

Would seal the holes with epoxy after

[@mkllove]

For broad areas like this, back filling with a conventional resin with micro balloons or other non fiber filler would be safer bet at reinforcing/sealing this area... the force this foam can generate is surprisingly strong ! Perhaps instead of trying to fair over such a big area, instead cut a large access panel over (well beyond) the bulging area with the oscillating saw tool ? Then you could excavate the excess foam and rebond the panel with a normal thickened resin or bonding agent ? That would be stronger than the existing circumstances... and cleaner since you need to gelcoat in adjacent areas anyway. Enjoy your vacation !

[@TotalBoat]

Flotation foam can be fun, fascinating and challenging all at once!! Despite any mistakes, you guys are doing an INCREDIBLE job!

[@MJSailing]

It has been an incredible help in our engine beds! We should have known better than to pour a full bucket in our transom, lol.

[@nicholasr7987]

Agreeded. They don't procrastinate either or cut corners.

[@TheAtma50]

I find all of this boat building a fascinating process and your methodical approach to it most reassuring. I would quite literally enjoy watching paint dry in your company !! Stay Safe & Fair Winds !!

[@allmomomosthomebus3895]

I binged all 240 some videos on your channel and I'm now caught up! I really enjoyed your story thus far.

[@emerkamp1]

Expanding foam can be a pain. It can do a number on house windows and walls if not careful. I know the canned version you buy in the store reacts to moisture/water. Spray it with water mist and it'll go off quicker.

[@berinslaptop]

The job is already done. But in the future I suggest using masking tape to any pour areas holes and masking tape and cover paper or masking plastic to contain the foam to your desired finish contact surface(s). It makes cleanup and finish work TOO the surface and foam 10x faster. Also if your pouring into contained locations add expansion holes if it seems needed. High expansion foam has a tendency to bulge, flex or break structures from expansion pressure. Example I've had issues in the past with foaming in fuel tanks getting pushed up from lack of proper hold down straping/screwed blocking what ever. Broke retaining systems. Just an FYI your foam bulge failure, to get around that, make MUCH smaller foam batches and drill 1/2" holes about every 5-8" in a no show area then cover the holes with masking tape. The masking tape will keep the pour contained to the area you want it to be in yet release when the foam expans and cut down on the pressure. Again masking helps with cleanup a LOT. If the work area is capable, adding a support board to press on a surface to stop bulging works well.

[@amo757]

Good advice, thanks.

[@knolltop314]

Yall have CORRECTLY developed methods to accomplish soooo many of the build requirements. There's bound to be some that don't quite go according to plan. Hope ya don't beat yourselves up much. Best of luck going FORWARD!

[@michaelcanto6175]

Too funny, I used the great foam spray on a steel door frame and the door was locked in place, had to sawsall the foam out and use a scissor jack against my truck bumper to open it! LOL What a Beast!

[@ED3]

Ones that make no mistakes do nothing. Your boat is coming together. We learn from our mistakes and improve.

[@redbovine]

For a/c in I closed areas but one of those floor standing a/c units that have hoses that go out a window. Take that flexible hose and duct tape it to the cold air outlet so you can direct it into closed spaces and let the unit sit wherever you can. I got one I use to work on stuff when it’s hot plus it’s cheap. I think I paid 120 for one.

[@piotrtrocki3842]

Cut few small holes from inside, dig the foam out and fiberglass them back in, so you don't have to use fairing compound on the outside.

[@whitneylake2107]

When I start my build I am going to remember everything you said and did. Thank you !

[@williamtoth9998]

Where have you two been. Missing your posts.

[@randalladdison537]

I'm just asking....i don't know anything but would it have helped to support that with a strongback so it could not push out?

[@gregoryh4601]

Maybe Common Cense would Help! Ask first

[@karlfair]

Up until 20:00 I was thinking that foam was very forgiving. It does seem like the working time is better than some of the foams I've used. Still a little pressure on a big flat surface is a lot of pressure. I have found that putting strong backs on flat surfaces and small batches of foam, will minimize distortion. Cooling the foam prior to mixing can help as well. test the foam first, before you try the cooling method. Next year you guys really need to go up the Severn to watch the Blue Angles. It is one of their best shows. Watching an F-18 fly under the Severn River Bridge is a blast. Take ear protection, they are loud.

[@handaferguson]

Great Job!!! Thank You... :-)

[@fredbear2648]

I can not wait to see your next build after this one is done.

[@2034brian]

Hey, when you noticed the foam stating to distort the panel you should have poured some acetone over the poured foam it will eat the uncured foam and relieve the pressure

[@popsracer886]

I agree, I ran up against this with a glass hood and I was able to remover the foam with solvents, even after curing, with only needing some properly shaped scrapers. read the clean-up instructions for the best solvent to use and go at it. Good Luck.

[@JohnJohn-cu7nk]

Bread knife or coping saw are handy for trimming foam👍. Allso for pouring liquids (foam) use plastic bags like you use a cake icing bag. On the hulls channel 👋

[@markebert7336]

Think you guys need a holiday! All the best!

[@thomasstuder1624]

When you started pouring foam into cavities my thought was that could end badly because that stuff builds up pressure as it expands. I've been there a long time ago myself.

[@LanceT.]

I wonder if a little acetone poured in the gap would dissolve the foam and save the panel and the work to fix it. Obviously, you'd want to make sure the acetone wouldn't dissolve anything else.

[@bmitch3020]

That heat wave was crazy, hadn't turned my AC on so early. Glad you had a few more weeks of good weather after this recording. Hope you've got some hot weather projects planned now that summer is starting.

[@ekaa.3189]

Filling those thin gaps with foam. Fill in layers that expand to about 2-3" high. Let cool between. A cheap funnel with clear plastic hose that can be tossed after each batch. The funnel likely can be scraped out before hardening, but not the hose. There is so many areas of expertise needed for making a modern boat, or whatever. Nobody can know all of it. Teams area needed.

[@williamgrimberg2510]

Some small foam expansion relief holes at the top of any totally inclosed walls that could be patched later would probably help in most cases .

[@mysurlytrucker7510]

Its coming along great 👍

[@larrylegg8245]

That's OK Matt. Win some, loose some.

[@todayonthebench]

The pour at 19:00 I would have done as multiple smaller pours. Just laying down one shallow line at a time so that the thin layer of foam can rise upwards without having to work against the partly cured foam above. Though, multiple smaller pours of cours means more work to get it in there and the necessity to wait between pours, but should have a lot lesser risk of causing problems with expansion.

[@cliffwalker8078]

Mat You might try supporting the inside panel with a heavy surface and tap the outside with a rubber mallet crushing the poor foam and see if the panel might return to flat from memory. If that works you might then try a little sprinkling of vinyl ester to stabilize the crushed foam. Can't hurt to try.

[@williamgrimberg2510]

An electric hot knife and or a hot wire works well for cutting and trimming foam if you can fit into the work space . A lot less dust too than using a fine trimmer .

[@johntvedte8143]

Just be careful with polyurethane foam. Polyurethane should not be cut with a hot knife.

[@10lauset]

.. Cheers to you ..

[@bkackman]

The weather is crazy. I just did a road trip from San Jose, CA, to Estes Park, CO, to spend the weekend with my kids while testing to see if it could be done in my Model Y. It snowed that weekend in Estes Park (May 20, 21) and then was 99 degrees on the way back through Utah, Nevada. Of course I wasn't trying to build a beautiful boat in confined areas working against a clock. Hey, some people pay good money to sit in hot saunas!!

[@MJSailing]

The variance here is like something we've never seen before!

[@tomstack659]

Good Afternoon! When I mixed and used foam , I I used an electric knife to cut it flush, I just learned you can use a mounting tool to !! Keep up the great videos

[@nicholasr7987]

I have a $7 Japanese style hand saw from harbor freight. Best $7 ever.

[@dtaz4920]

You should use the low expanding foam used for door and window frames

[@popsracer886]

I would recommend non-expanding, this is used in the autobody industry, within frame rails, professional installation only, but I think you could find boating/DIY versions.

[@allan8004]

Hey Matt, maybe you could fill the rest with normal expanding styrene, instead of epoxy ? hope it works out for you however you go, all the best, Al

[@jackdbur]

You could try these 400ml 1:1 AB Epoxy Gun Cartridge Disposable Dual Glue Cartridge to pump in small amounts of the foam mix .

[@glenpeters955]

Be honest, watching flotation foam expand is a LOT of fun. 😲😲🤪

[@stevet647]

See if you can hire or borrow a gel coat peeler to speed up the repair time, faster and cleaner than days of sanding.

[@daisypooch4034]

What happened to you guys? So look forward each week to enjoying the progress on this massive undertaking. Hope all is well, and to hear something soon.

[@lyfandeth]

I think it was an F22 Raptor that I saw literally standing on its tail in midair a couple of years ago at an airshow. Pilot shot by, came back, then rotated nose almost vertical with no other movement. Incredibly loud, but amazing what the modern fighters can do.

[@muchmuchmore]

I'm suspicious that once the foam partially sets, pressure and expansion happens locally in very small areas and can no longer dissipate towards an uncovered opening. This would mean that even a pour with a wide open top will still have significant outwards pressure on all sides in contact with the foam.

[@aidenmack3054]

At least there your mistakes and not someone else’s that might night want to fix things the way they should be, wants all is done you will be filled with pride and joy of what you have accomplished❤

[@dc1544]

relief holes are needed when pouring that expanding foam into walls.

[@jamarie1972]

Gutted the foam expanded the panel, would clamps hold the pressure to keep panels straight. Life is a learning curve just some parts are steeper. Take care both of you.

[@ablemarine9072]

Have you thought of pouring your a/b foam in a bag? Pour cut and squeeze, like you do with fillets! As you know,gotta go fast!

[@tomcraddock244]

Keep up the great work!! Fair winds ⛵️

[@artamereenshort6610]

I just thought about this swelling issue. Since it's foam and it's deformable, placing a wooden board on it and hammering the board should compress the foam, enough to make it flat... you have to try it before taking everything apart.

[@MJSailing]

Unfortunately it's structural foam.... 6lb density, same as the hull is made of. It's like hitting rock.

[@artamereenshort6610]

@@MJSailing I know, But if its work (An you know it, in 1 minute ), you only need to put a layer(s) of fiberglass on it, witout taking everything apart.

[@LifeOnTheHulls]

Whaaat - 93degrees and no ice vest, you guys are toughening up. Don't Sweat the distortion on that panel mate, these sorts of issues affect every boat builder at some point. All part of the process. Ross

[@FromThePrairies]

As you move towards the heat of summer, have you considered changing up your working hours? Midnight to 10am is the coolest part of the day. Not great for the social life (I worked this shift for years and slept from noon until 8pm) but highly advantageous for productivity.

[@MJSailing]

Unfortunately we're in a residential area and don't want to make noise at night. And where we are the temperature drops at night, but humidity skyrockets, and we shouldn't fiberglass much over 85%.

[@marklapierre5629]

You needed a little bit less foam down in that slot. Lesson learned. Maybe next time put in about 1/4 of what you think you will need, then add some more after the first batch cures.

[@Phil.sailing.indochine.]

You guys ready for some time on the water yet? Koh Samui Seasons starting now!

[@MJSailing]

We are ready for some time on the water, and we should be getting it this weekend. 🥰

[@russellesimonetta3835]

Serated bread knife is a good tool for trimming that nasty foam.

[@torbenolesen8560]

Sorry you didn’t ask beforehand 🤔As the top opening is filling in, the pressure from the PU will spread at all the enclosed area with the same pressure/cm2. Because of the large vertical areas, the total inside pressure will be very large and you wiil not be able to stop the expansion. As another subscriber mentioned, very small amounts of PU to be supplyied at a time, and you will have to await hardening in between. Well, learning by doing 😊. Building a catamaran many years ago (but still renovating after 22 years of sailing), I experienced the same issues!

[@ctown6971]

I'm sorry to see all your hard work to only create more work for a small oversite on the foam. Well just keep moving forward you'll be on the blue water eventually.

[@MrFatboyrider]

Great work on the boat, I just learned that you are from Michigan. My wife and I live in Owosso. Where did you live?

[@406crusader4]

Love the 🐫

[@davidhanson3288]

Its probably to late but. If you take a flatboard 6 in wide put a piece of 2 mil. Plastic on it then pour a ribon of foam on it let it start to expand. Then move it to your seam on the board. Then both of you transfer the plastic withe expanding foam onto your seam. It will take all your hands to hold it in place some time ill use a long piece of cardboard as my backer specially if its curved.

[@УЛукоморья-ш3п]

Привет! Для вспененного полиуретана можно использовать большой шприц или кондитерский шприц - удобнее

[@Naturalook]

Take heart. Your wrinkled skirt is solvable…. My buddy injected behind the walls of his van interior, completing the project before he ever saw the outside of his van because he was working in his narrow garage… The van body was destroyed! So, from when the episode started I was just waiting for how bad it went… BTW there are techniques injecting small amounts with a tube, and slowly layering it up…

[@larryboles629]

Matt, was the foam core in the engine space part of the build instructions, or was this an MJ upgrade? Be happy, be safe

[@marksrcmodels41]

Using your vibrating tool at a right angle you can easily remove the excess foam by attaching hacksaw blade which will relieve a path and the excess tension causing the buldge in the fiberglass. Unfortunately speaking from experience

[@jnjentinc]

Our professional we hired even did this when we had the spray foam insulation done on the bus. I had to go back and cut the foam out ( luckily had just enough space to dig it out and then I reattach the outside of the bus to the foam. So it’s not a rookie mistake 😉 but ya sucks it happened to ya guys.

[@fooman2108]

I know this may sound simplistic, but one easy (CHEAP) way to trim expanding foam is to go down to a thrift store (Salvation army, etc.) and buy an electric bread (or carving) knife....New, they are not particularly expensive, but for $2.00 each you do not care if they get screwed up. Usually you will find that the knives themselves are not particularly sharp but usually the price it right!

[@Combatwhombat]

A hot wire foam cutter can be picked up for as little as $12 from walyworld for a simple straight edge. For more complex surfaces you can get a freehand one for $30-40. And yeah, then you intentionally use more foam so that it can be cut down. The problem of expansion force and relief before warping parts however is a bit harder to deal with. If there's a threat that the expansion will clog the relief path as it cures allowing the inside to continue to expand and put too much pressure on the container surface, more relief points are necessary. It's easier to drill some relief and fill the holes in later than to resurface a warped container.

[@bird718]

so much work has gone into the catamaran.... i somehow thought it would of quicker

[@Tomm9y]

Hope you find a solution for the tricky foam,

[@cruisingwithrangertugwande8041]

Could you use empty chalking tubes that you fill with foam mix and use the chalking gun to squeeze foam into cavity?

[@JohnJohn-cu7nk]

Guy on another channel just uses plastic bags the same as cake icing bags I think his channel is called on the hulls

[@pipercolearchitects]

Pour smaller amounts at a time, and add holes on the back side

[@documetricsinc.6135]

Granted that this is a job that takes as long as it takes, but I'm wondering if you had a schedule in mind and how your progress so far matches up with the original schedule. Are you ahead, behind or on schedule for your 2 year build?

[@mikea1893]

why don't you get some pipe insolation or other tip of foam insolation for large gaps like that to fill and glass over it? or window spray foam insulation it does not expand as much.

[@MJSailing]

Window one part foam isn't truly closed cell and absorbs moisture. Also, the idea was to use a structural foam which has a hard density..... Obviously this was the wrong choice :)

[@triprobinson2808]

DOH:) MATT STEP BACK FROM.THE FOAM AND WALK AWAY. LOL SH-T HAPPENS. CARRY ON CREW..

[@lyfandeth]

A disposable plastic pastry bag might work to pour into odd places.

[@gsh341]

Two part foam is something you have to be very careful with. Not giving it sufficient space to expand will result in all sorts of problems.

[@nasanction]

Are there any solvents that would desolve the foam?

[@Calusa.Wanderer]

Hey guys, do you have an affiliate link with total boat? Need some of their stuff and thought I would help you if it could. Scott

[@leejuby8242]

One recommendation as someone who works with foam all the time try not to touch foam until it is fully cured. It will remove easier when cured and you upset the cell structure when you play with it. The 6lb foam should not be used in closed enclosure as it will distort unsupported surfaces that have a structure of less than 6lb density.

[@ronverbonach3992]

I made that same mistake Underneath the floor of a boat It distorted the bottom of the hall we had to cut the floor of level the foam

[@SteelDoesMyWill]

FYI, expanding epoxy foam does not have such an aggressive exothermic reaction and is far less likely to put too much pressure on the wall inside the void. Far more expensive and harder to find, but I think the investment in the right product is far less expensive than the labor/materials to will have to put into fixing that wavy bulkhead.

[@gregoryh4601]

Well Said Luke . Hope they listen also Your line of Work Would save this Couple a lot of Money & Weight. And they could do there Own Repairs. Let’s see what Happens. Luke. Take Care Peace Be With You. Just a Fan. 🍺

[@tomatobrush3283]

Do you wish you paid more for a temperature controlled building location or do you still think your location was ok?

[@MJSailing]

Considering our rent each year for the tent is $2, we're still pretty happy with our decision. 😉

[@thomasw5430]

Wow you guys edited this video fairly quickly. Unless the commencement was last year, the Blue Angels did the flyover yesterday! I know this because they are up here on Long Island performing at an air show this weekend! Ow, as far as the foam incident goes, don’t be too hard on yourselves. This is the first time you are doing a job like this. If you aren’t making mistakes, you are not learning! Enjoy the 10. Days or so away from the build and the yard!

[@tonyfromaus7855]

Mad respect. But. Are you wasting your effort sanding between paint coats? I have often seen paint peeling off from the surface it’s painted on but never ever seen paint peeling off itself in layers. I just can’t see how it ever needs a sand between coats if time hasn’t weathered the surface. Any thoughts?

[@JCrook1028]

Some paints require it. The instructions tell you how to apply it. At 2:46 you can see the directions on the can. Sand between coats with 220 grit...

[@tracynichols7206]

Use double tube gun with mixing tip

[@BillB23]

My dad often told me if you don't make any mistakes it means you're not doing anything. Alas, there are days when, by that criterion, I'm exceedingly busy.

[@johnpeterdean1653]

What do MaxCruise do. HCMC is way above 90F during 6 months of the year ???

[@fairwinds9630]

they use tropical hardeners,

[@MJSailing]

It's vinyl ester and not epoxy. No tropical hardener. They have dozens of employees working, so can manage the speeds needed to finish in the heat.

[@Cameron-ur2tk]

Shit happens, you guys are crushing it. Not surprised about the foam, once you learn the power you become much more knowledgeable on when and where to use it. You got lucky on those engine beds not pulling of/ bulging out so don't get that greedy again. Also in any heat that shit goes off Chernobyl, if your doing large batches keep a bucket near by so you can toss the batch should anything happen and also put down plastic.

[@donr416]

I've heard a lot of horror stories about expanding foam. Lesson learned.

[@MJSailing]

We had a pretty bad one from our first cruising boat - a Sabre 34 MkII. Went to insulate the fridge and it expanded so much it came out the cupboards!

[@albatros1752]

😶‍🌫and what You say in the moments like that ? 😫......... UPS !😜

[@jasongrinnell1986]

Live and you learn. Ain’t it fun?

[@ewn0077]

The exothermic heat warped it not the pressure

[@ablemarine9072]

With the heat being too excessive to do your painting, Have you two looked at portable A/C units? They are fully portable and small enough to allow you to use them in different compartments of your vessel.the units drop in to your area, then have a discharge hose attached to allow you to work in comfort and not hinder your progress. Just a thought! I have worked on boats for many years in Florida during the summer months and always carried the portables with me to help facilitate my projects! My first A/C that I adapted to theses conditions was a cart with a marine unit installed and then used upwards of 30 feet if the 4 inch hose to push cool air into engine rooms cabins etc. Surely you would be more comfortable and productive should you choose to look into the aforementioned solution. Love your Channel and your attention to making sure that Your Home is proper and safe and strong for years of service ahead. Nice to see you pay that price! Production boats won't be as well built as yours because if your thoughts and care to perform the task above and beyond. This will serve you for many years ahead of you! Be Safe and We'll! And Thanks for your diligence in not cutting corners.

[@SteelDoesMyWill]

I second that emotion... the secondary benefit to cooling the space is that A/C units actually remove humidity from the air. Drier air is almost more important than temperature (almost). I will say, however, where they are located on the east coast probably only has sporadic heat waves. It just doesn't get that hot and stay hot often enough to justify the investment in extra equipment and the power draw.

[@tomsims7081]

where are you guys

[@zihnigurdereli]

💖💖

[@Cptnbond]

What is your estimated timeline for this project?

[@MJSailing]

We are hoping to splash in the fall of 2023.

[@imabeliever244]

Just when you think you have an easy fix, it bites you in the butt. I was wondering if it would work beforehand and questioning why you didn't just fill the gap with thickened epoxy? Live and learn. By the time you get to the faring part, Jess will be an expert and it will go quickly. haha

[@PasiSavolainen]

You might've gotten away with cutting that piece out before the foam solidified, leaving "only" cuts to glass/fair

[@NewZealandPakeha]

Coulda clamped it back in

[@claudeelliott3993]

OOPS!!

[@adventureswithryan5474]

The thumbnail looks like Jessica is pointing out another scratch in the gelcoat that I made!

[@lesabre1972]

what does watching the episode again do for you?

[@caracamano71]

👏👏👍😃