#220

In part one of this video, we started to answer the nine most important questions about wireless communications for Arduino Makers. In this video, we will continue and dig more into the matter. If you did not already watch the first part, I strongly suggest clicking on the link in the upper right edge of your display now.
Grüezi KZbinrs. Here is the guy with the Swiss accent. With a new episode and fresh ideas around sensors and microcontrollers.
In the first part, we talked a lot about the influence of carrier frequency and started to understand the concept of bandwidth. In this video, we will cover
- The significance of bandwidth on wireless communication
- The different modulation principles
- Methods to increase the reliability of wireless connections
- And we will learn which methods were preferred by spies
And we will use all our knowledge to compare two well-known wireless modules, the NRF24L01, and the RFM69. Both representing very different concepts
Links:
Part 1: • #219 9 Important Quest...
NRF24L01+: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bHFXGCkC or bit.ly/2Ngxwzx
NRF24L01 Long Range: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EelCKjA or bit.ly/2NgExQN
RFM69HCW: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cfm7Bn1m (Always use high power version, you can reduce power if needed)
Supporting Material and Blog Page: www.sensorsiot.org
Github: www.github.com/sensorsiot
My Patreon Page: / andreasspiess
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If you want to support the channel, please use the links below to start your shopping. No additional charges for you, but I get a commission (of your purchases the next 24 hours) to buy new stuff for the channel
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[@rodrigo_dm]

Andreas is one of the best electronic related channels on youtube hands down. Always with some really high quality material. nice job man, keep it up!!

[@CTCTraining1]

Rodrigo DM - you are spot on and soon will reach 100k subscribers.

[@rodrigo_dm]

thank you I guess...?? hahaha

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your nice words!

[@JohnJCouture]

Wow! Thank you for an EXCELLENT tutorial. For people like me that never took formal classes on wireless technologies, this is perfect because it starts with the basics and builds. Also I appreciate your calm presentation unlike some of the presenters that always seem to be screaming into the mic, trying to be a showman or simply do not know how to make a video. Andreas, you're the best!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your nice words. I am no more 20 and try to create my videos as I would like to get them presented...

[@willofirony]

Thank you so much for these two videos. You have simplified the presentation of wireless communication between maker projects ; while including enough detail to aid sensible decisions regarding the choices available. As with your videos on antennae, you have reduced the confusion regarding the subject. Both these series will become references in the toolbox of every maker.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your nice words. We will see. I would be glad if these videos would be watched by many people. There is still a huge lack of knowledge out there...

[@sethrd999]

Very well put together Andreas, right to the point and everything well described in detail. Well done sir!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@laverdanick]

Hi Andreas, thank you for posting all of your videos. I only watched the summary of this video, as that was the bit that interested me. You mentioned that to overcome the 9dB link difference between the two modules the transmitter needed to be 10 times more powerful. It would actually be 8 times, as you double the power every 3dB. I do find your videos interesting, thank you again. Nick.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right. I also should have used 10 dB as an approximation. As I said in my first video I simplified a lot.

[@eddyfontaineyoutu100]

Very well prepared subject and presentaion 👍👍👍 ! Thank you Andreas !

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@Zhaymoor]

what a great video man !! you are a treasure for makers ! thank you sooo much

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your nice words! You are welcome.

[@lasersbee]

1:50... Your little hand should have a white glove on it.... :whistle:

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good idea!

[@kyleg223]

Amazing video as always!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@zolatanaffa87]

Nice and useful video as usual. Very kind and Clean explanation. You remembered me of an experimental connection with a 10 mW laser diode ( in Early '90ies... long time ago) with a modulation in current of the diode then probably AM. They reached 88 km of distance: the transmitter was on a Hill near Bologna and the receiver was in the middle of the country near Argenta, a little town between Ferrara and Ravenna. The beam was about 1.5 meter of diameter and received with a parabolic antenna with many pointing difficulties. They said that the analogic modulation was perfectly readable . .. Long Live to transmissions pioneers! Thanks Andreas!

[@AndreasSpiess]

As you wrote: In addition to the electrical challenges, these experiments have a lot of "mechanical" issues like finding a good and open field as well as pointing the direction. Especially if the beam is only 1.5 meters. It is a wonder they managed to reach this distance.

[@zolatanaffa87]

I found a bulletin from the Guglielmo Marconi committee that made the connection. I have to make amends: the distance although equally considerable is 40 km, not 80 km as I remembered. On 01/04/1997 from 21:00 to 22:30 there was a record connection in bilateral laser in telephony between Vaglie, a town located between montecalderaro and monterenzio (590 m. Above sea level) and Morgone pass on the embankment of the river Reno between Molinella (Bologna) and Argenta (Ferrara) On 10 April 1997 the record was improved by one Km. 30 and 20 mW lasers were used (not 10 mw as I had written by heart) and in reception lenses fresnel from 600 mm in diameter all mounted on military type tripods combined with optics for pointing. here the link to the bulletin page where you will also find the description of the mechanics part www.radiomarconi.com/marconi/record.html Thank you for your patience and sorry for the inaccuracies ... but many years have passed!

[@ramonmelo2799]

You are the best! Great work Andreas!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@petelynch9468]

Bear in mind that long range is not necessarily a good thing. A signal that travels further has more potential to interfere with another user. It can also be monitored from further away. If you are security conscious you might not want other people to know what the temperature is at your house, or to be able to turn your lights on or off.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right. I hope I covered this point of security. This video should give the info to do such decisions with some basic know- how

[@avejst]

Thanks for sharing😀👍 Interesting project as always 👍

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@puriap250]

This was great. Thank you.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@BrunoHorta]

Super cool :) thanks

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@jwh103]

What a nice video thanks for your contribution

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@wafiullah-shafia]

Thank you for this topic I so much interested

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@PhG1961]

Awesome !!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@davorinrusevljan6440]

Grat video, thank you! I am wondering if I could establish communication from engine compartment to passenger cabin the car, and which one would be more suitable for that task, LoRa, NRF24L01, or NRF24L01 Long Range

[@senorjp21]

You know from first hand experience! More!

[@AndreasSpiess]

People were killed for smaller mistakes. And you would lose your channel :-(

[@johanneswerner1140]

Yes! Actually... Maybe no. He might have to kill us then....

[@electronic7979]

Useful video 👍👍

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@marinehm]

Thank you so much for this follow-up video. Is it possible for the RFM69 Lora module to transmit Data from a GPS module?

[@AndreasSpiess]

The RFM69 does not do LoRa. And you can transport what you want. You have to write the right code for that

[@udith-pz4tv]

Thanks........

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@SteveWrightNZ]

Good work. Mention also, the better effectiveness of higher-frequency antennas.

[@AndreasSpiess]

That you can build more elaborated antennas of the same size, you mean? As a result of the smaller wavelength? A ground plane, for example, should have the same performance on all frequencies. It just gets smaller with increasing frequency

[@SteveWrightNZ]

As in, higher frequency antennas can have much higher gain - can be used to recover that free-space loss. Compare the gain of a large 868MHz yagi against a 5.8GHz dish.

[@hdeamon]

Andreas, you have a good understanding of all radio stuff. Could you please advise if it is possible to track cell phones presence nearby (~5 meters) by those small data transmissions that they do from time to time? My googling shows that even it is possible, it'll quite expensive solution. What do you think?

[@AndreasSpiess]

You should be able to do that using SDR radio. However, it might not be simple. Maybe you wait for my SDR basics video or google yourself.

[@hdeamon]

Thank you, looking forward to your new videos.

[@ErkanOkman]

👍👏

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@Nabilphysics]

good..from CRUX

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@philpayne4579]

Hi Andreas, is it possible to do another video about ESP-Now duplex communication. It's very hard to find any information about it or projects using it. I'm interested to know if it's possible to have a master and several slaves to duplex or is communication only simplex between master/slave?

[@AndreasSpiess]

We use duplex for our tank project. It works at least with two ESPs. I did not try more. Here you have a working example: github.com/leonyuhanov/ESP-NOW-TX-RX

[@Ed19601]

Great explanation. I was wondering if you indeed tried the NRF24L01 long range from that particular AliExpress link. Seemingly similar ones I got somewhere from aliexpress certainly were not long range, but if you actually tried the ones from that particular link I'd happily will order some

[@AndreasSpiess]

I bought mine long time ago, so no warranty. But AFAIK you Schuld see the additional PA chip. As I said, I had no big success with these boards over distance

[@Ed19601]

@@AndreasSpiess thank you. I will try with the TMRH20 library

[@daque1960]

Great video. Thank you. Any chance you will do Bluetooth sometime? It would be nice for short range using a micro to talk to a phone or emulate a human interface device (keyboard mouse joystick etc)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did some BLE stuff already

[@daque1960]

Andreas Spiess thanks I’ll look for them. So many channels I get confused who has done what.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Just stick with mine ;-)

[@TMS5100]

i choose rfm69hcw for most of my projects.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good choice!

[@stripeyhorse]

Love the little hand. Ive been delving into 433mhz lately due to low power usage. Any ideas on a good Arduino based chip to use for ultra low power usage. A video on this would be great.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I just got a few Moteinos for that purpose. Whisper Node is another such board. I used it in my „wardriving“ video

[@stripeyhorse]

I loved that you did the whisper node board. Such a great video. I'm going to use one for my small summer greenhouse controller. I live in Tasmania, Australia. Ill look into this Moteinos as well. Thanks for writing back Andreas. Huge fan.

[@AndreasSpiess]

And the whisper came from Australia if I remember right.

[@stripeyhorse]

Andreas Spiess they sure did. Just joined your patreon as well.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your support!

[@nkronert]

What? No comments on the transmission method preference by spies vs the preference by Spiess? 😊

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-))

[@misterx6863]

the atm wich kind of connectivity work? wifi?rfid? bluetoth?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know

[@lightdark00]

The hand pointer needs some cuff links. What kind of a channel do you think this is? 😱

[@AndreasSpiess]

I had to google "cuff links" ;-)

[@EliSpizzichino]

Has anyone tried the zigbee modules? I have used them in the past and they are quite reliable and you can choose the frequency. I don't remember the detail beside the fact I remember I used firmata (it was more then 10 years ago) but I would choose them again if I want to monitor say a vineyard and I don't have to travel around. I don't see the point of joining a network like LoRa if I just want to communicate with my devices right? Does the RFM69 let you do you private com without having to join LoRa along with their restrictive policies?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Network or not is your choice. I made a video about LoRa direct connection if you are interested.

[@EliSpizzichino]

I've been following your LoRa video with great interest, I've also see you hack with the ikea lamp that use zigbee. But I was curious if you ever tested for long range communication of the zigbees. I still have those and even if they are not the cheapest option nowadays they are quite powerful. Maybe I'll test them when I have time and let you know.

[@langtidsminne]

Is QPSK applicable for makers?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know simple chips which support this modulation.

[@domoledlight]

Thank you very much for your channel ; I have learned a lot. I want you point of view on my project . to summarize my project : I have a esp8266 webserver using websocket witch control gpio's very well by loading SPIFF html page on my smartphone (garage door , sensor ect) . I want to extend my project by using a pair of HC12 (si4463) What i want to do is to add a esp8266 (with 1 HC12 ) acting as a bridgge (wired with the esp8266 server) to communicate to an other esp8266 witch have a HC12 . I am blocked at this point. what the goal : when Websocket receive a JS message from my html page 1) he send a code (1234) to the esp8266 bridgge by wire protocol . 2) the HC12 pick up this code and send it to the other HC12. 3 when the HC12 receive this code i do whatever i want . Do you think my approche is right or I have to work on something else. Thank you for your help. Nb : i did not achive wire to esp8266 when hc 12 is connect to the server esp8266 it's mess the wifi communication independent hc12 work good but alone

[@AndreasSpiess]

As usual, I would separate the components and start what the two HC12 and two FTDI connectors. If this communication works you replace one FTDI with an ESP. Maybe you want to use Serial2 on the ESP to keep Serial for debugging. No web. Nothing. Only if this works you can add your web server sketch. Concerning interference: This should not happen if your devices have a certain distance. So experiment at which distance the interference starts. BTW: I do not know what you mean with "Wire protocol". The HC12 I found does not work with I2C

[@domoledlight]

Thank you for your fast reply ; in fact i wanted to make an extention of my esp8266 server. 1) my esp8266 server work well " activate door , switch ect . 2) when i put hc12 direct to esp8266 server wifi don't work. 3) 2 esp8266 ( without wifi) associate with 2 hc12 working good too ( I can send the command to activate gpios to the esp8266 receiver by hc12) The final idear was : to connect esp8266 server by physical wire ( using wire protocol) to the stand Alone esp8266 hc12 witch send the commande to the hc12 receiver. So if i can achive this the result would magic. 1) HTML send JS request to websocket 2) if websocket receive the request code (1) example. 3) Esp8266 server send by serial protocol the code (1) 4) Then esp8266 HC12 pick the code (1) and send it to the final esp8266 HC12 I think i am more clear

[@domoledlight]

You are right The HC12 I found does not work with I2C

[@zazugee]

i was only hearing "Laura" xD

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@Putzerlblade]

This episode is missing in your LoRaWAN playlist

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you! Now it is added...

[@ajaybnl]

First Commenter. *WoW*

[@redlines2535]

2

[@bangonkali]

3

[@rwils6333]

4

[@Electronieks]

5

[@AndreasSpiess]

6

[@Iceteavanill]

First hand Experience with spies? Were you a spy once or where do you know that from ;)

[@fritschalterheijden318]

Seen his surname?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I only did the communication link.

[@tablatronix]

holy shit that pointer is hilarious

[@aaron41]

tablatronix throwback to monty python

[@AndreasSpiess]

I was quite common before the internet age ;-)

[@WereCatf]

You've made a lot of videos on LoRa and other radio-stuff and here you mention their inherent insecurity; I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but it occurred to me that you just might be interested in a post I just wrote yesterday on how to use AES-encryption for LoRa, when you're not using Things Network and are just transmitting directly between your own devices. If my post isn't to your liking, okay, but I just thought to mention it -- questionable.space/2018/09/26/dont-snoop-on-my-data-aes-encrypted-lora/

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the link. Very interesting post!