Klipsch Forte IV Review! THE Klipsch HERITAGE SPEAKER to BUY ????

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

★ *REVIEWING: **bit.ly/3komedS**, **amzn.to/2NYmZOO* ★ *QOTD: If you had to choose, which Heritage speaker would be your pick and why?* ★ *Love our conversation/outtakes? Be sure to watch to the end* ★ *COMMENT RULES: Please be respectful. No outside links, URLs, email addresses, etc. Violations are automatically deleted.*

[@pardiano]

Hi Andrew - Great review of the Forte IV’s. Awesome channel too (just found it a few weeks ago). I would pick the Forte IV's! My current speakers are a pair of the original Forte’s. I picked them up new in 1988. They're still working great and sound amazing. They make the music come alive. It sounds like the Forte IV’s would be even more stunning than the original model from what I've heard.

[@kevinreilly7595]

I own a Forte II pair and, after much deliberation and few audition opportunities, purchased Heresy IV’s. I could not be happier with the decision. They are paired with an SVS SB 2000 when the front end allows. I’ve pushed them with a 20 watt Vista Spark and Phono I Mk 2 mated to a Technics TT with an Ortofon Red producing superb sound without a sub as well. I have owned many nice vintage speakers over the years and I wanted to buy a pair new and determine their fate myself. So far, after maybe 400 hours, I have not wondered “what if I would have bought...” for even a minute.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

@@kevinreilly7595 your setup sounds nice! I bet it just sings!

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

@@pardiano The newer Heritage Series speakers are more refined with every generation.

[@KristiWright]

@@kevinreilly7595 That's gotta feel good.

[@stephenstevens6573]

I love the back and forth between you and Christy! Having a woman willing to partner with you in an audiophile sense must be so satisfying for you! God bless you both!

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Thanks so much Stephen! Have a great rest of your day!

[@wa4aos]

Finally, Honest reviews regarding Klipsch Speakers !!! THANK YOU !!! I fell in love with Klipsch speakers in 1979 and yet the audio rags as well as sales people of other brands always trashed Klipsch. And yes. I listened to many other speakers which were very good but none had that excitement and kick a$$ that I found with Klipsch. I started with the Heresies' and later to 50th anniversary K Horns, then La Scala's. I also auditioned the Bells, Cornwall's, Forte's and loved them all. The K horns were just too much for our somewhat modest living room. Same with the La Scala's. I finally put my original Hersey's back in service after stiffening the internals of the cabinet and updated the cross over. I also coated the horns in both speakers with a heavy rubber type epoxy to stop them from ringing and they are just excellent. I have designed and built many amps and preamps and really love the 45 tubes as the output stage. 2000 milliwatts. My preamp is also tubes and my system continues to take me away over and over again. At age 66, I will be a life long Klipsch fan !

[@thecookieman3000]

Just ordered the Forte IV. Can't wait for them to come in stock. Great review.

[@lancecooperphotos]

I moved into a house with a bigger room dedicated to music listening and after improving the acoustics I set up my model 5's and they sounded great. So much better than our last home. But. Regardless of amp, they sounded a little "shouty" can I say? around 70dbs and could not fill the room. I purchased the Fortes and holy cow, fist few bars of music and and my wife and I smiled. Playing at about 75-85 dbs regularly ( in the country with no neighbors) and they are brilliant. Tube amps are wow. Clear and clean and could probably get a lot louder and still sound great. They really fill the room and then some. You mention sense of scale and a sense of being there, you are so right.

[@redogfizbal]

They absolutely are shouty in the midrange. I don’t know why any of the reviews mentioned. Just try to watch a movie on them, deep male voices sound so unnatural

[@Harry-Giles]

Andrew, could not have enjoyed a review more than this one. Why? I have Cornwall IVs in my home office. I think you are right on the size issue for your living room. The C-IVs are amazing though. Thanks for keeping audio fun and grounded in how we live in our spaces.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@user-ys4og2vv8k]

Andrew, you are a lucky man - there are very few women who are interested in good sound and share an audiophile passion with a partner.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

I am lucky, but I'll let Kristi chime in on just how much she has a "passion" for this stuff vs. how much I've sort of drug her into it. 😂

[@user-ys4og2vv8k]

@@andrewrobinsonreviews Well, if she doesn't have an audiophile bug, then she really loves you - and that's even better. 😉

[@user-ys4og2vv8k]

@Tech & Gaming Um, this is not a problem IF money is no object. If you like beautifully treated wood - then Sonus Faber. If you like modern minimalist design - Magnepan. If you like avant-garde design - then Avantgarde. If you like ultra modern design - Bang & Olufsen. If you like speakers as sculptures in your room - then KEF Blade...

[@breakoutpete210]

I’ve never met a woman that was interested in audio, 99.9% of women don’t care, they see audio systems as obstacles. They’re not wired up like men to understand what hi end audio is.

[@downhillblur708]

My wife has a stock answer when I bring up new gear: "NO"

[@jackhalsey242]

Another fantastic review. What I really love about your reviews is how you go past the numbers and talk about “the feels”. That is what grabbed me about Klipsch when I first heard them and could not believe a speaker could transport me into a performance like they do. Tough call between the speakers. Yes the Fortes are out farther but you are not having to fit a sub into the equation. I’m really sorry that the La Scalas were too big. Your review of them was such an emotional one. Great to hear the Fortes have big but quick bass. I envy your decision. Would love to see a quick update video for if/when you make your decision. Thanks for a fantastic channel. I think I would go with the Fortes. Take care

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Thank you so much Jack. Yeah, I really did not want to send the La Scalas back. We held off as long as we could but it was the right call for us at this time. We'll keep you guys updated re: Heresy vs Forte in the end. I love my little Heresy IVs, partially because I feel they've been with us through all of our growth and so they're sort of the third member of this team which is another reason why I don't want to get rid of them. Be well!

[@hugobaptista8755]

Hi Andrew and Kristy, I have been watching you guys since last January. I never stopped since then. I Ioved a couple of your videos and decided to subscribe to the channel straight away. I love your reviews and your emotional side into it. Along with Steve Guttenberg, you are the channel i enjoy to watch the most. Hands down for your work. I really love it. Because of your review on the Technics SU G-700, i am considering to buy it to the system i am trying to setup. Along with the Forte IV's (i was almost desperate to have your review on them, thank God you managed it). Thank you so much. So i will try to put both of these two together in the future, and hopefully with a tube preamp as well. About your decision between the Heresy IV (which was my choice before the Forte IV's), the KHL 5's and the Forte's... i would advise you to take an "in between decision". I mean... an emotional one (keeping the Heresy's IV), and a technical one (the Forte's IV), due to their best "all around" sound between the 3 pairs. I would agree with Jack Halsey on this decision. I would also like to suggest you guys to get in touch with Steve Guttenberg (if possible), to make a video with a discussion or an interview between you guys, about gear, audiophilism, reviewing videos, musical taste, etc. That would be really great to watch, if possible. He seems to be a really nice guy and i believe he would accept to do it. We all love this hobby, and we are not competing between us, so i hope that you, reviwers, are not competing either. Each channel has a charm and a thing of it's own. It's an image of you as reviewers but it has also your personality in it. And i love both of your channels (as i am sure that many other followers like me do as well), which i watch on a regular basis. I hope you guys are doing great, and keep up your fantastic work. I will surely keep up watching you and join your channel very soon. Cheers 👍🏼

[@jameshannan367]

Hi everyone, a year ago I purchased a vintage pair of Klipsch Forte II's and there is no other speakers I have heard that sound like an actual live performance. I am a musician with high quality musical instruments in my house (Steinway model B grand piano, '67 Gibson ES-335 guitar and '73 Fender telecaster custom, Fender vintage silver face tube amp, Pearl drum set and Yangisawa tenor sax) so I have a good A-B comparison. The Klipsch make me feel like I am "there" in the performance especially listening to analog (LP), and especially with the high quality pressings (interestingly, I can hear the difference between records that were remastered digitally and those direct from the original analog tapes, once the sound is digitized it loses the analog 3D texture and sounds brittle to me). I remember listening to Klipsch in high end hi-fi stores in the past and they always outperformed every other speaker but I was unnecessarily concerned that they were suited for big loud rock only. This is not the case, I listen to everything from classical, opera to jazz to rock and all music sounds great on these. If you value the emotional impact and excitement of feeling like you are listening to a live performance, I wouldn't hesitate. I paid about $1k for the vintage Fortes off of eBay - the newer ones are Im sure better and more refined, but there is a big price difference. I do covet a set of La Scalas which I remember hearing demonstrated and really liked fore the ultimate Klipsch experience

[@mistert7958]

You'd love the Chorus II, Forté on steroids !

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

@@mistert7958… Not necessarily, the Forte II’s play deeper than the Chorus II’s, even though the Forte’s have a 12” woofer versus the Chorus’ 15” woofer. The Forte II’s handle 500 watts peak while the Chorus handles 1,000 watts peak. (I believe they both use the same tweeter and midrange.) The Forte II’s are 99db efficient while the Chorus II’s are like 100-101? (iirc?). So while the Chorus II’s might simply play louder, for those of us who care more about quality over quantity the Forte II’s play deeper bass… therefore would be considered a better choice.😮 😉👍

[@mistert7958]

@@tigerstripeeyes9871 I've enjoyed both, and have kept the Forté II's. ✌️

[@scottcarlon6318]

Not being a rich man, I have been squirreling away funds to replace my old outdated speakers. And while saving up have been speaker shopping. I had it narrowed down to the salk SS 6m or the Forte's. The Salks having a beryllium tweeter would offer better pinpoint imaging, the bass dynamics of the Forte's tipped the scale in their favor. So, in 2 weeks, next payday, I will place my order for the Forte's in walnut with the white linen grill cloth. I'm so excited! ! !

[@surfmorworkless]

I know this is a year after you wrote it but….congrats on your awesome speakers. 🙂

[@bngs1983]

Congrats on the speakers. What amp are you driving the speakers with?

[@andypomeroy6747]

I'm just getting back into vinyl. Started with a 50 watt NAD integrated amp driving Heresy IV's. I love these speakers. Playing mostly old records from the 50's-80's, but most are 70's pressings. My $69 Numark turntable with a Nagaoka MP110 cart sound great. Anyone who hears these speakers comments that they sound better than digital. I played a 1977 reissue of Led Zeppelin II for my guests and young & old alike were blown away by how good the sound was. After that demo a few of the 20 somethings are going to invest in an audio system. I'm excited to get back to the hifi shop and demo Forte IV and Cornwall IV. The first time around I loved the La Scala, but this time around I will know the Klipsch sound. Your reviews are so in depth and I like hearing your wife's opinion!

[@davidle7864]

Very subtle but notice that Andrew is a very good listener. He never interrupts Christie (I think I spelled her name correctly) and let's her finish her comment even when he already knows he wants to say something. Great job!

[@rickdavis2151]

I Purchased a pair of Forte IV speakers a couple of months ago and could not agree with you more! They are the sound I have been looking for! Really enjoy your channel!!!

[@elvincuevas1727]

Andrew, regardless of if you can live with the Cornwall IV on a daily basis you should request them for a review. We need your opinion and point of view about the sound of the Cornwall IV regardless of size. Now you have covered almost every Heritage model so we need to have the complete picture and the review of the Cornwall IV is a must. :) We watch your videos to learn about products, not to learn what do you like in your space because of the size. :) Hehe... Joke aside - please bring the Cornwall IV home for a deep review. Thanks! Happy Easter!

[@ralphonsnowflakes]

I have the Cornwall 4 & Heresy 4 and run them both simultaneously. I love them. If I want a lighter jam I’ll turn off the Cornwalls. That’s not very often though. The wall of sound is pretty sweet. I’m getting the Forte 4 next to run all of them simultaneously. Can’t wait! I’m using the NAD Amps and I’m pretty happy with them.

[@buddyjenkins7188]

So sorry to hear that the La Scallas have gone back. Mine are never leaving. I did send a pair of Heresy IV's to my son.

[@santiagoaguilar8429]

Damn send me a pair too!

[@buddyjenkins7188]

@@santiagoaguilar8429 The deal is he has to change my diaper when I go to the rest home. Are you in?

[@santiagoaguilar8429]

@@buddyjenkins7188 I'm already a nurse. I do that with random people in the emergency department already lmao so sure

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

😄😂🤣 I never expected that comeback!!! Classic!!

[@davidsagarra9841]

I just bought a pair of Forte IVs thanks to Reviews like the one in this video. I paired them with a PrimaLuna EVO400 and the system sounds fantastic!

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Very nice!

[@Goofypikz]

Thought you guys were Klipsch biased, so I went to listen to the Forte 4’s today. Damn, was I wrong! They look like something from my grandfather’s lounge, but what mind-blowing sound 😁🤩. Now I need to convince my wife...

[@Deelman222]

This video was fantastic! The hard work from you two really shows! May have to try a Decware now with my Fortes after watching this, bet it will be an improvement from my class D Pioneer AVR

[@KristiWright]

Hey, thanks!

[@johnfallen3909]

You betcha!

[@thomjarvis2922]

I really enjoy your reviews. The overall presentation you provide as well as your extremely professional and erudite explanations/descriptions are on a whole other level than others. The fact that your wife Christy ( unsure of her spelling), adds her thoughts from her own perspective is truly unique and valuable. The storied WAF is a reality for all of us old married guys. This is very important and sets you apart from other reviewers. My wife also likes the fact that this is a holistic type of reviewing style. Keep up the good work, I think you two have have discovered the sweet spot for realistic audio reviews for real people. All the best from Yellowknife.

[@lesmatthews459]

I almost bought the Herresy 1V's a few months ago - but decided to stay with my Cerwin Vega D9's! Glad I did!

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Nice.

[@GoodwinGlassworks]

I've got a pair of the Forte IV and the last house I lived in had 8' ceilings and the pool/music room was a giant rectangle with tile floors. A speaker pulled from each corner(long distance apart)...me favorite set up was using an older Yamaha to power it....and as mentioned here...some records(particularly Stan Getz or Dire Straits)...the sound was as if it was live...and..bring the volume up and I could feel bass punch while sitting on the couch in the center back against the wall. I LOVE that! I think these speakers need some openness and volume to really show what they are...and a good acoustic room

[@quantumdecoherence1289]

Just sold my RP8000fs and bought the Forte IV. Getting delivered next week on pallet. Can't! Wait!

[@tedrubinstein2003]

I have RP8000fs also and am looking to upgrade to the Forte 4's or Cornwall 4's. It's hard to find a place to hear the difference in person. Have you yet or anyone else heard the difference in person and how much you gain with these.

[@hochgonzalo8923]

Klipsch heritage loudspeakers are awesome. I've got modified Chorus 2's and simply love them.

[@KristiWright]

Good afternoon, everybody! Wow what a morning. KZbin testing my patience today! Hope you guys are having a great weekend. Enjoy the video!

[@joshdekubber3631]

Good afternoon!! Thank you both for helping me decide on the Fortes! Now I just have to figure out the rest of the setup🙃

[@the_maxx31]

Definitely worth the wait! Thanks!

[@gdemirjian]

I found it in the Klipsch Kg4. Most balanced with great dynamics and realistic imaging. I am lucky enough to have two pair. They are in pristine condition.

[@sogunbiyi]

The review I've been waiting for! Highly appreciated. And to answer your question...Forte 4 plus a sub 😅

[@ejcheck]

Very Good Review. I bought a pair of Forte II's in 1989 ($1000) and still run them as my Mains. If I had to replace them it would be with the Forte IV's. They hit the right balance for sound, size and keeping in tune the wife's decorating ideas. My other half puts up with a lot from me when it comes to audio, but parking 2 VW Bugs (La Scala's) in the living room would not work for her. I have now retired and setting up a Man-Cave in a new home. I'm running a 2 channel system with the Forte II's running in parallel with a pair of JBL L100 Classics through a McIntosh MA352 Integrated Hybrid amp. The JBL's are stock and sound lovely alone. The Forte II's have new x-overs (Crites) with bi-amp/wire capability, and recently when one of the tweeter horns fell apart I replaced the tweeters with MAHL upgrades which provided a great deal of additional high end detail. The sound with the pair in parallel is exquisite and the MA352 barely gets warm with the 3.75ohm load. I would suggest that you review the MA352, it has turned out to be an extremely versatile amp. I nearly got the MA252 but the MA352 head and shoulders above with many useful options not available on the 252 - It has Capacitance Adjustment for phono cartridges - yes it does make a difference. - It has 2 independently selectable outputs that allow for a Subwoofer or 2nd amp. I'll be adding a Mcintosh MC275 to the 2nd output and run the Forte's off this for a full tube setup while the JBLs run on the solid state output (1). I can then choose JBL, Forte or Both. - More power than the MA252 - 352 has EQ, but not the 252

[@Ford363Stroker]

I LOOOOVE Forte IV. I run a dCS Rossini into an Accuphase A70 into my Forte IV’s and audiophiles look at me like I’m nuts for such a low end speaker. But for me those horns are like having a concert in my family room while still having room for the rest of my furniture.

[@JukeboxAlley]

This is an awesome comparison by the way, and i see myself getting those model 5s down the road, i have model 23s in here right now im restoring, which i preferred even over the model 6, my favorite klh.

[@jjnewbold]

Lol, yep. Got me on the "What about Cornwall IV?"

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

HAHAHAHAHA!

[@jjnewbold]

@@andrewrobinsonreviews look, you and Steve Guttenberg are THE speaker guys on KZbin. End of story. And his reference is the Cornwall. So yeah, dying to hear your take on it. Also the actually attainable Tekton Lore! I'll only get a Cornwall if I inherit money. Lol

[@newton5954]

Review Cornwall Iv please best reviewer for this right here is it coming ? 🙏

[@evangaudet]

I’m torn between the Forte IV and Heresy IV for all of the same reasons you are. Bass is important to me, but then again, I’ve been listening to Paradigm A2 Bookshelf speakers for 8 years and the bass on these little bookshelf speakers has blown me away. Would I like deeper basement bass? Absolutely. But these little bookshelf speakers have been making my hair stand up for 8 years. So with that in mind, I really feel like I could pick the Heresy IV over the Forte IV because they just look better in the room with their smaller profile and with the new ported back I think I could be satisfied. Honestly at this point I need to hear both in person.

[@lesmatthews459]

Check out Paducah Home theater. They do a comparison of the two.

[@8gazebo]

The Forte IV is the ghost speaker of the Heritage series. The Forte IV, while much smaller than the Corner Horn and La Scala, actually occupies more space when pulled out from the wall for similar bass and spatial dynamics. Grab a tape measure and check. Physics like the devil require space for the sound and he always gets paid to produce the results. This ghostly illusion of the Forte IV, however, has enabled permission to indulge many audiophiles who choose to share space with decorator types. That said, I love the Cornwall IV, born to live on a wall, yet, living equally well, built INTO a wall or cabinet unit to hide it's required giant size. Like the Forte IV, the Cornwall IV also boasts the mid and high range qualities and dynamics of the Heritage high end, including LaScala. The bass, while different is large, tight, and musical. Some say it is the most ample and best bass of the heritage series. While physics, sizes, and faces vary, the large musical hugs of the Cornwall IV are as addictive as the Heresy IV, but, oh so much more mature, alluring and intoxicating! Instead of seeing the music in a comparative box or in front, the music of the Cornwall IV reaches out and envelopes the soul into the middle of the performance without moving from the chair.

[@kirkhouser2198]

Klipsch Chorus I here. When we moved, the house selection revolved around finding a living room that would work for the speakers. Most modern houses had wrong shaped living room spaces.

[@jorisdeschauwer6255]

Can't wait for the review of the focal in the background... 😉 👍

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Coming soon.

[@newton5954]

I agree. Even perhaps the focal Aria even better step up! Man I’m in between both Aria 948 and Cornwall Iv I own... focal is better for detail and refined sound ! Klipsch even though have it is just fun and different sound but not what I call refined or hi fi sounds like harsh poop to say compare to Aria 948 period! Would you ever consider reviewing the Aria 948 ? kinda $$$ but I’m sure you can do it and get it in.. but great video man 🥇🙏

[@NosEL34]

I know this is an older video but I had to come back to watch it. I just sat down and listened to these at a Dealers semi showroom..and they are extremely impressive. I will say I haven't heard a Klipsch speaker in many many years. So going from memory and from all the negative things said about Klipsch I've just never been interested. I mean a lot of people really dog on them. No bass, lean sounding, too high pitched, too forward, etc. etc. After hearing these Forte's I need to revaluate my thinking of Klipsch, and maybe I should give some of their other speakers a chance. These speakers did not sound like what I expected, and the bass was good, male voices were not "lean". The size and volume of sound these throw is remarkable. I really enjoyed listening to them. It certainly did not sound like what all the Klipsch haters described. But I do agree with Andrew, I believe these could be best appreciated with a high quality source and recordings...and a dedicated listening room would be even better...wouldn't that be nice lol

[@realshaolinprince]

I wish Klipsch would make Heritage style subs

[@KristiWright]

💯

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

YEEESSSS They must!

[@ega9831]

Kristy’s engaging comments were a great complement to your review. I loved it!

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@alainbesario6679]

for me heresy IVs, because of my smallish room 13.5 ft x 11.5ft w 9ft ceiling, great job again guys, and they're gonna arrive hopefully 2 weeks from now w/o bias

[@aaronfrench8322]

Please request for the Cornwall!!! We all love your reviews on Klipsch Heritage Speakers!!!

[@gregoryblake3377]

Bass matters and placement is free words to live by my friend, thank you.

[@abelfonseca]

Great review guys. You two make a great team and complement each other perfectly.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Thank you! Appreciate you tuning in today!

[@DrewHawken68]

When Andrew looks hurt when Christie suggests getting rid of the Heresy was classic, loving the addition of her comments at the end.

[@rodgermacfarlane4641]

Thanks to you and your good lady for a brilliant review. I live in Dubai and we have a great Klipsch dealer called Dubai Audio. I called in to their store yesterday morning to see what was new and since it was so quiet I had plenty of time to give a pair of Heresy IVs a good listen. I was so impressed that I planned to go to their main store to listen to the Forte IVs. However, having watched your review I decided that I could get just as attached to a pair of Heresy IVs as you have. So this morning I pulled the trigger on a pair in black ash - the last pair in the country for now. They will be hooked up to my Cambridge Audio EVO 150 that I am already very attached to. I will let you know how I get on. Thanks again.

[@DavidSchroeter]

Dubai Audio are great dealers. From my experience, they are a no bullshit organisation!

[@jtaylor0727]

Great review... enjoyed every minute.... wow speaker selection is hard. I like my old Klipsch RB-75s a lot.... but after seeing your 8000f review I bit that bullet and I am Very very very happy. Wife and I say what you say about many ... it's like the musicians are in the room. I am sure these IVs are better but like you mentioned $$$$ wise the 8000f buck for buck is amazing.... one question... do you ever find this. I sometimes with some music play the 8000fs and the RB-75s at the same time... is that too strange... a no no or what??? For some music they seem to really compliment on another. Is that crazy? I am old ... so I know what you mean about KLH... I knew them when they were very respected... and then they became toys. I am so glad they are back... that was a great review!!! Thanks very much. Oh those two Klipsch I mentioned are on an 80 watt NAD C 356BEE

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

I LOVE the 8000Fs. They may be the best buy among all the Klipsch speakers honestly -and yes I'm including the Heritage Series in that statement. AS for playing them at the same time as another speaker, so long as you amp/receiver can handle it and you like it, you do you!

[@jmilton5842]

I will choose the Forte IV, but I currently have my sights set on the KLH MODEL 5 for all the reasons stated.

[@chandlerlofton6536]

Cornwalls changed my life. That is all.

[@addonisryan]

Firstly I love you both, you two are amazing, It is such a blessing to watch a youtube channel run by husband and wife I can tell that besides loving what you do , you really love each other..Personally, and I'm basing this on your description/review of various Heritage loudspeakers. I would go with the Forte 4.I like a large floor-standing speaker, which doesn't lack deep bass, yet I also look for that LIVE "you are there" sound. I am a live sound engineer. I prefer that way of presenting music in my home when possible. I love deep, clean(fast) bass that hits me .Subs are great but getting the desired result from just the speaker itself is almost always better. The Heresy would probably be good,while the use of a sub may add the extra bottom end it is missing, subs don't always achieve the same "timing" as built-in woofers.I'm a huge fan of you two, please continue doing what you do. it gives me and so many others a sense of the "real world performance aspects of so many different pieces of electronics as well as what it's like for a couple to live with them on a day to day basis.

[@michaelwright1602]

I went with the KLH Model 5, and very happy!

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

“He chose poorly…” (from the old, dying knight/crusader in “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” after the guy drank from the wrong cup and died/melted away)😂

[@BillyBombastic]

Andrew, we love you, we need you to review the Cornwall 4. it's not going to go away 😄x

[@Harry-Giles]

Yep. Listened to this again. Superb insights and great take on the Forte's.

[@gregorytrane7828]

Good review. You might want to check out the new classic KLH 7 speaker when it comes out. It has a 13" bass driver and 5" mid-range with the same tweeter of the KLH 5's. It goes lower on the bottom end and probably clearer in the mids because there is a 5" instead of the 4" on the KLH 5's. It should be an interesting comparison.

[@stevenmoore1443]

I bought a pair of the Forte IV's and I absolutely love them. This review is pretty spot on from my experience, with one exception. I did go with the Forte IV rather than the Heresy IV because of the bass performance. I've also found (contrary to Andrew and Christy's experience) that they can be placed pretty close to the back wall (Klipsch I think recommends 2" - 8"), where as I think the ported Heresy needs more room.

[@rndm4642]

Liked the video before even watching. Cornwalls next! Got some LSII’s recently and totally agree...they’re an emotional attachment kind of speaker.

[@garysmith8455]

Andrew, I HAD to review this video presentation again. Well, happily, my local brick and mortar store has the FULL Klipsch line, right up to a beautiful pair of Jubilee 75th anniversary on the showroom floor ! I just purchased (NOT HEARING THEM!) the Forte' Four in the same finish and grill that you have there. I also picked up new Willsenton R8 integrated. I have learned TWO MAJOR FACTS for your information. #1 Roy Delgado voiced the Forte' 4 to be as close to the Klipschorn as possible. The low end response is beyond that of the Cornwall / Heresy and La Scala !! #2 The Forte' 4 has a one of a kind 12" woofer! (to excite the 15" passive radiator) It is only shared by..........................the new JUBILEE !! Thats right!, a K-281 woofer is very beefy and very long through with the largest voice coil in the entire line of woofers! There you have it. Alongside my Martin Logan Classic 9's from the Masterpiece series with all Parasound Halo Pre and Amp, I LOVE having two completely different designs which live side by side. Fun stuff for sure ((O:

[@robk5745]

Great discussion at the end, I can tell the difficulty you’re having picking a beat and also letting us know how to buy which one. Forte iv is definitely end game, would love to hear it with some decware magic lol

[@markd4292]

DecWare integrated sounds good. I am seriously considering this combo with the Forte IV. Either that or a decent class A. I heard Atoll is pretty good: class A up to 40 watts or something before going AB.

[@rodrogers7553]

You need to hear the Cornwall and the Klipschorn.

[@RicoFlako]

I’m a huge fan of the channel and watch all your reviews religiously. You definitely inspired several of my purchase decisions like my Jamos and heresy IV’s. The one thing I would honestly love to see more of on your channel is the actual process you go through to evaluate speakers. I know it is probably different for everyone but I’m sure plenty of us would be interested to see your process. I’m all over the place when I do it. I hop around different seats in the living room, unplug the sub, spend an hour adjusting treble and bass and obviously listen to a lot of material. I can’t help but think, I could be doing it all wrong.

[@2ChukBuk]

Love this episode...and your t-shirt.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Thanks Teddy! Appreciate you tuning in!

[@KristiWright]

HA. We were just wondering if the downvotes were related to the shirt. I'm venturing it's the regular haters who come through and dislike anything we put up. Living rent free, y'all! 😍

[@bchboy1206]

First time here, great job! I have wanted Klipsch since my AIr Force days in the 80s and now I finally have 5.2.2 RP8000f system but I want some nice heritage speakers and I was kind of tossed up between the Cornwall IV and the Forte IV. I really don't mind saving and spending the money but once getting above the Cornwall it's too big and the Heresy is just a little too small. I think the Forte IV will be my choice. Thanks to this and a few other reviews.

[@bruceheitkamp1724]

Really great review. How about a Klipsh sub review. What would be a good Kilpsh sub to match with the Forte IV and Heresy IV

[@rosswarren436]

Indeed. Which sub pairs the best with each one. And considering the price difference between the Heresy IV and the Forte IV, how close could I augment the Heresy IV to be as good as the Forte IV without hitting the same price point?

[@garylethbridge6220]

Great review. Comparing the klh 5 to the forte 1v is surprising because in Ontario the klh retails for 3000.00 and the forte 1v is 6600.00 They should not be even be close..so hats off to the 5

[@davep2945]

Unfortunately the La Scala design does not allow for enough horn length to go really deep. But, as you guys have mentioned, everything else is in a class that very few product under $20,0000 can hope to match. And that's not really because Klipsch is the best or anything, it's simply a by product of a well designed horn speaker. The Klipshorn has tremendous bass but requires a perfect room setup in order to be it's best. It is easily the most difficult speaker to place that I can think of from any brand. You have to accommodate the K-Horn, it will not accommodate you! The Cornwall and Forte IV's become by default then the best value in the Heritage line and the easiest to place despite the effort required and offer the best overall balance without subs or special room design. The Forte III's were phenomenal and though I haven't yet heard the IV's I am sure they are a step up because I have heard the difference in the Cornwall and Heresy III's and IV's. If you love the Heresy's but miss the scale of the Forte IV's try placing the Heresy's on short stands and possibly bi-amping them then add a pair of seriously quick subs and you're there! The only thing I've heard in the ball park price wise that comes close to matching the Cornwall and Forte for speed and dynamics as well as that live sound are the Tekton Double Impact and Moab. But If the Forte's are too big then forget about the Tekton's! The trouble with hearing speakers that dynamic and live sounding is that everything else sounds like something is missing in comparison. Yep, I've heard better detail for less money. Yep, I've heard deeper bass for less money. And, yep, I've heard greater resolution for less money. But each time I heard better in another speaker for less money it was a one trick pony. Resolution was the only thing it did better. Bass was the only thing, etc... As for a combination of all factors and dynamics/speed and realism everything else that matches or comes close, save for the Tektons, is two to ten times or more the price. Including other horn designs. You have to decide what's important to you and go from there. But despite what the bandwagon Klipsch haters will tell you the Heritage line speakers when properly set up are incredible values in the speaker world.

[@bigsled12]

Thanks for the advice on the Heresy's. The Heresy's sent me into the world of budget hi fi along with some tube equipment/SS mix . I have the iii's on 2' cement stands and tilted towards my ears. I am trying to learn more about bass . They are somewhat thin in that area. Do you have recommendations for budget friendly subs ? Do I need two ( one under each speaker) ? Need to stay at 1000.00

[@thomaskolar465]

I chose the Heresy IV for existing physical constraints. One had to fit into a shelf (box) 16.5" wide by @3' deep. The rear radiator would have lost it's effect. For extra bass I got the 120SW sub, and for mid the 450C center. Works great with RP 600Ms for surround in a 5.1 system.

[@lamecasuelas2]

"That Is just the easiest to eliminate": I think that Andrew's heart broke a little bit

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

It did. The Heresy IV are like my buddy at this point. So, yeah, her comment cut deep. 😂

[@KristiWright]

😂 🤷‍♀️

[@lamecasuelas2]

@@KristiWright you are savage!

[@jharsh3376]

You looked like someone smacked your ice cream cone to the ground.

[@KristiWright]

@@jharsh3376 😂

[@johntocho8954]

Thank you guys! Heresy 4 would still be my choice, mainly because of where the speakers would live in my home. I have listened to both Heresy and Forte, and while the base is definitely better in the new Forte, I just don't think it would make enough difference (and may be overpowering) in my home/room for the cost difference. Excellent review as always, and you really did surprise me with how close you said the Forte sounded to the LaScala.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Sound reasoning John! Thanks for watching AND yes, the Forte IVs manage to get closer to the La Scala than I'm sure Klipsch would like me to admit. Nevertheless, unless you need that absolute true to life scale and transparency, you can get away with the Forte IVs for sure!

[@romankaplan4676]

Great review and a 100% accurate on the Forte IV :) They’re pure magic! Pair them with a decent Marantz and it’s audio heaven. They’re picky as hell on placement but I actually love that since you can give them completely different personalities based on what content you’re in the mood for. The one thing that I would totally disagree on is your observation on them NOT being brutal. They’re are pure EVIL with poor recordings. Garbage in, garbage out. They make no excuses and no attempt to hide anything. Just my experience with them :) As a matter of fact, that’s how everyone who has experienced them in my space describes them.... AWESOME... and BRUTAL. As always, great review and info!!! You guys are awesome!!! Thanks

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

I guess I'm basing my not brutal commentary on how much better the model IVs have been compared to the IIIs in the Klipsch lineup. The IIIs, to me, were Brutal, at least the mark IVs can be tolerated with garbage recordings -unless you turn them up to 11 in which case all bets are off.

[@gaborozorai3714]

I have owned Cornwall III's for 5 years now and cannot even imagine how the IV's can improve on them. Whether it's classical chamber music or screaming rock they just sound like the real thing without ever breaking a sweat. So they get my vote. Yes they are wide but as they can be pushed back against the wall they intrude less into your living space than the Fortés.

[@gaborozorai3714]

@Hoy Sum Corn-wall means corner or wall placement. I guess it depends somewhat on the room but in theory they can be as close as your cables will allow.

[@hailtothevictorz]

Yes, Andrew, the Cornwall is the Goldilocks speaker.

[@maxpower78-15]

Also glad i watched again to hear the comment about the prior versions being a bit more forward. There are lots of people selling older models, and ive viewed all the posts. Many times my fingers itched and wanted to click. But patience. My stereo deserves the perfect speakers.

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

Nothing forward about the older Forte II’s, unless you drive them with harsh-sounding equipment. I have THREE sets of Forte II’s, which I bought used, and they sound BETTER than the newer IV’s because they go all the way down to 32hz. A smart, intelligent man would buy a set of Forte II’s and highly upgrade their crossovers with the best audiophile caps/resistors/air coil inductors/internal wiring, and better brace the cabinets internally or just build a much thicker, well braced cabinet from 1” thick or more MDF with their choice of real wood veneer or custom piano gloss finishes. All of this would cost less than, equal to, or slightly more than a new pair of Forte IV’s, but would look AND sound far more amazing! Those cabinets from the factory, well, they suck… so a major cabinet upgrade is essential. Their crossovers from the factory are cheap, so again a major upgrade is essential. The older Forte’s use phenolic tweeter & midrange diaphragms in them, while the newer use titanium, so there’s another upgrade, IF you so choose. I would also dampen the cabinet’s inside walls, the backs of the plastic horns, and the woofer’s and passive radiator’s stamped steel frames… to reduce any internal ringing. But after you upgrade them, that’s where the real fun begins! You can totally embarrass your “audiophile” buddies who spent gazillions of dollars on their speakers yet are blown away by yours that only cost you a few thousand. Some get really mad that they didn’t think of it themselves, save a ton of cash, AND have a more enjoyable listening experience… while others will NEVER admit that for the money, they sound better than their $30,000+ speakers. Any horn loaded speaker can sound “forward” when powered with the wrong equipment or when using cheap crossover parts and cheaply made, thin cabinets. So the solution is to simply fix the original designer’s mistakes.

[@mkfmkf55]

Get the Forte IV's for the dynamics, bass, & overall realism, plus made in USA. If you get the KLH's you'll wish you got the Forte IV's.

[@robertgustafson4507]

I own a Klipsch Heresy III. I also have 2 12" subwoofers and an electronic cross over to the subs at 80.. The speakers are set up 10" from the back wall. The Heresy III are that last of the non ported speakers and sound quite nice near to rear wall. They are set up in the living room and optional placement is not realistic. My viewpoint is that the buyer needs to determine which Klipsch works best in your listening room. With the sub cross over at 80, the Klipsch threes sound works well. In a dedicated listening, room the Fours would interest me. Thanks for reviews that include +/- of the speakers and components. The dialogue between you and Kristy really works well . It works well. Keep up the good work.

[@bigsled12]

What subs did you end up using /does it matter ? Thanks > learning

[@phonatic]

And once again, a beautiful review. Your wording is really, really good as I can always clearly imagine the sound characteristics you're talking about. Now, I am really wondering, how do you store all these interesting speakers?

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

We have given up our spare bedrooms to storage. We went from a three bedroom home to a 1 bed, 1 bath apartment basically 😉. Thanks for watching!

[@KristiWright]

We need a bigger house with a studio. We live under a small mountain of boxes - some held together by trash bags b/c some people are cheap AF. LOL

[@phonatic]

@@andrewrobinsonreviews Wow, that's what I call dedication! 😳

[@phonatic]

@@KristiWright Oh, that really sounds very much familiar to me. ;)

[@DQ-su6qf]

I bought the forte 1’s when they first came out & later -1- forte 2 that was offered after the other was damaged..Have always loved them as my primary speakers & can’t imagine a better sounding home theater system..Great review & I would consider upgrading after hearing your review… FYI: Just sold my Dahlquist DQ 10’s…

[@navinadv]

I had the original Chorus, which I was forced to sell as I couldn’t carry it when I left the US. It made lovely live music powered by by an Adcom 535. I also has gotten an old DQ10 for free from a neighbour and spent a lot of time modifying it and learning about loudspeakers. I replaced the midrange with an Audax 12cm polypropylene cone mid, the tweeter with a Decca ribbon, and several of the crossover parts. The other speaker I wish I hadn’t had to leave behind was the Maggie SMGa. They weren’t terribly efficient and were coloured but the music they made powered by a B&K ST140 was beautiful.

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

If I was you, I’d buy a pair of Forte II’s and the use the Forte I’s for the rears!😂

[@abgehtdapeda4981]

Because of your Technics SU-G700 review i bought one, and i´am still very pleased of it. Now i would like to change my speakers and the Forte IV could be the choice, but i hesitate with the order, because i don´t know, if the amp and the speakers are the right match!? Have you ever heard this combination? Maybe the amp is too neutral for the Klipsch ... 🤔

[@DickCarr]

should be fine...no problem at all....the efficiency of the Forte's allow for most any amp match up. Any potential brightness or bite has been lessened with the new crossovers and toeing in or toeing out can tune this more as well. Hope that helps.

[@MrMuyee]

Had been waiting for this review, it came at the right time. Thx you Christy n Andrew for honest reviews all the time.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Thank you so much Baba! Appreciate you joining us today!

[@KristiWright]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnfredmurray]

Another great review Andrew and Kristi! I plan on picking up some new speakers this summer. Considering the Heresy IV's or the KLH Model Fives. Would be great to see you do a shootout with the Wharfdale Linton Heritage compared to the Klipsch and KLH. Love that shirt!

[@JedWunderli]

I bought the original Forte's back when hey came out (can't remember when that was - late 80s???). I still have them and they are the main left and right in my surround sound system. Love them.

[@JbobFishhead]

Andrew - Your beloved Technics Su-G700 and these Forte IV's. Have you paired the two and how do they sound? I know this is an older post but I searched through hundreds of comments and I was hoping to see something on this Amp with this Speaker. Good match or not?

[@allenmajors4806]

In response to your request, - given space constraints, if I had to choose a Klipsch, it would be the Forte IV. I love the sound of the Cornwall and the La Scala (have actually heard both of them), but they are too big for my living space. If I had the room the La Scala would definitely be it of the Klipsch line. My current speakers are ProAc D20R (ribbon tweeter) and JBL HDI 3800 (compression tweeter nested in a wave guide/horn). Current electronics are Bel Canto, Technics, and Luxman. I much enjoy your videos, thank you for your work(!).

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

You sound like you have a good setup! I had Bel Canto once upon a time and loved them! Thank you for watching.

[@bricksbeersbeards9368]

been an owner of forte II for nearly 30 years, sound the same now as they did the day I purchased them back in college, when they were WAYYYYYYY to expensive for me...looking back...great decision. got excited when the forte III was released, didn't like the sound as much, seemed like they couldn't dig as deep, and subtle differences in the updating, so I held off, I'm excited by the IVs, they seem fabulous, if I get them...what do I do with my IIs?!

[@fanclub670]

You just have to sell it...😉

[@m.d.f8470]

hi, i listened to these speakers along with chorus 2. the chorus 2 are still the best

[@sidvicious3129]

Andrew, I’m loving how you are doing things with the reviews and asking Christie in the end her opinions. I would like to see for a couple of reviews Christie in front doing the review and you behind the camera giving your opinions. We need more women audiophiles or music fans in the mix. I love the channel regardless.

[@SteveSmith-cm1hx]

My whole front sound stage in my HT is Klipsch and that's all I will ever have. Those speakers are beautiful. Great video.

[@patrikbjorling4391]

That smile at 18.21...I can tell she is a keeper!❤️

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

She's the LOML.

[@KristiWright]

@@andrewrobinsonreviews AWWWW You're mine! Sorry for grossing up your thread, Patrik. 😂

[@patrikbjorling4391]

@@KristiWright Love it!

[@stephenbrockway5899]

@@andrewrobinsonreviews She truly is special. A gift to be cherished. She gets what you are trying to do. She also understands that when you get the sound right the emotional connection can be magical.

[@armandorancano6415]

Andrew, I wanted to thank you for this excellent review. Along with other positive reviews, it prompted me to try the Forte IV. Not much to lose when you have a good vendor like Crutchfield. I had recently bought the RP-8000F when I read your review. As someone who never showed much respect for Klipsch I was first enlightened when I read reviews and subsequently purchased the RP-600M for my office area. My percussive Cuban music played the best I'd ever heard, which prompted my purchase of the 8000 for my main system. I very much enjoyed the 8000 after the break in period. However, the clincher to try the Forte IV was the part of your review where you said it was a good match for those who like to feel their music up close and personal. It connected with me. Luckily, the 8000 was still on trial and I was able to return them. I appreciate that you focus on how a speaker feels more than the specs and all the other attributes reviewers cover. I did not attend Audio Science Review University. The Forte IVs are still breaking in but every day is an anticipation of where in nirvana they will go next. They fit my room to perfection and, along with my PS Audio BHK gear, the joy of listening to music happens with more frequency than ever before.

[@quantumdecoherence1289]

Same quagmire. Getting ready to return the 8000s for the Fortes for one last purchase. I like the look of the Fortes much better. Can you tell us a little more about the differences?

[@tedrubinstein2003]

I don't know if anyone will ever see this as your post was 6 months ago but after time what do you think of the difference between the 8000f's as I am looking to do the same thing, maybe with the Cornwalls.

[@armandorancano6415]

@@tedrubinstein2003 Sorry for the delay in answering you, Ted. The 8000F is a wonderful speaker but does not have the weight and authority of the Forte IV. However, in a smaller room I would have kept the 8000Fs.

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

I gotta go with Khorns. Because if you're going to spend more than just a few grand on speakers, just be patient and save until you have the ones you not only literally can not doubt or better-deal but also that people will fight over who it goes to in your will. I am already saving. By this time next year.

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

But go with the new “sealed back” designed ones instead of the traditional old school open back design. The sealed backs have MUCH deeper bass that goes all the way down to 20hz and can be placed anywhere in the room. The open backs only go down to like 35hz or so and MUST be placed into corners right up against the walls or no bass.

[@themarklar8759]

Great review Andrew and Kristi! If it was Klipsch I'd pick the Forte IVs. But I bought the KLH Model 5s earlier this week thanks to your review and can't wait! Question Andrew, for amps I've got my eye locked on the Technics SU-G700 now. I've seen your glowing review on YT as well as your review on Home Theater Review, which was even more thorough and glowing I felt. The Model 5 and Technics SU-G700 would seem to be an incredible match (two very neutral pieces with very little coloration and the music gets to shine) but I am wondering your thoughts on the Model 5 / Technics pairing vs maybe a Yamaha 1200 pairing on which one you'd prefer.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Model 5 and Technics is a safe bet, as is the Yamaha. I personally would do the 700 over the 1200, but you're likely going to be very happy with either.

[@fredheidepriem1142]

So, the real deal is the La Scala with the McIntosh. That particular combo(and particular sound) was my nirvana. Then, divorce. My life has never been the same…

[@Selrisitai]

You had to sell them, or did your wife get them? XD

[@peebs1963]

I love my Forte 2 Getting cornwall now for 2 channel McIntosh . Hope I'm not going below my expectation of the forte. Thanks for taking the time and making a video . Take care . Be safe

[@tigerstripeeyes9871]

Stick with the Forte II’s… trust me, I have THREE pairs and zero desire for the Cornwallis. Just concentrate on their placement and the upstream gear and you’ll be alright

[@michaelvaladez6570]

Better to be safe than sorry. Size matters...don't compromise.

[@weldsj8847]

Doing some fantasy shopping and saw these and the Klipsch Cornwall IV... 15" woofers vs. 12" on these. Just saying: I need to win the lottery. Need enough extra $ to keep wife from killing me :-)

[@michaelvaladez6570]

@@weldsj8847 Win the lottery and a big house and your man cave can be huge..Klipschorns here you come..just saying and put on some Billy Joel or Capenters..( don't know your age or taste..just appease the little woman...

[@remiandrepedersen868]

Personally, I use a good EQ system for my Heresy, to get a little deeper bass, and a little more natural midrange. I also use a high quality separate system and a strong amplifier, which also makes the bass a little deeper, compared to a weaker one. By the way, what I like better about Heresy is that the micro details come out a little better, due to the fact that the horn of the midrange is slightly smaller than what Forte has. But larger horns of course give more dynamics. There are pros and cons to everything.

[@allenmurrell]

I get the feeling you both cried a little when you boxed up the La Scalas - and maybe cheered a little when you found something that was more livable and near as could be to the La Scala.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

I cried listening to the La Scala, and I cried boxing them up...because I hurt my back doing it solo. Ouch. 😂

[@Powerpickle68]

I would pick the Heresy IV because of size and not having to play with placement as much as you described. Placement adds to displacement of a room, mine is not big enough for that. If the bass isn't enough then I would add a sub or live with what is since I'm not a bass first or bass heavy person, I also have to consider the neighbors.

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

Good choice and for many (because of reasons you describe) the Heresy IV is likely going to be the ideal Klipsch Heritage speaker.

[@mf2652]

I was on the fence.... And then I just bought some Cornwall 4's :/

[@andrewrobinsonreviews]

You...have chosen wisely. Enjoy 'em!

[@Harry-Giles]

C-IVs for me as well. So much fun.

[@erikhoogantink4995]

Andrew, please please do test the Cornwall. It is wider but because it is front ported you can place it closer to the wall. That might work in your room. I am planning to buy heritage speakers as I am a long time fan of klipsch. Your opinion could realy help make a choice. Love your channel. Regards, Erik from Holland

[@Grooverski]

I would say DONT get CORNWALLS4. You might end up loving them to the point of no return. Fair warning.

[@rekodo_intl]

Andrew, I like how you setup the "use case" for the Forte IVs: choose it if you have a dedicated listening room where you are listening to hi-res audio or great vinyl pressings. Always great reviews from you and Kristi.

[@jeffdort9073]

I really think you should at least give the Cornwall a shot. They are big, but they may dominate the room a bit less than the LaScala

[@newton5954]

Agreed 🤘🥇

[@GIDoobie]

Just got the Forte III and I’m powering it with a super cheap Dayton hybrid tube amp ($100 as a restock) sounds incredible. Phono has a slight hiss but they are incredible. I would love to hear the fours with a real tube amp. I will say not only is the bass quick but I felt a chest /clothes moving thump like a concert. I haven’t heard/felt any home speaker (minus a giant pair of home theater subs) EVER do that. Nice review, keep the awesome content coming.

[@myplacerighthear3691]

Okay so recently and I know this video is more than 3 years old.. I just found the Golden goose. Two matched pair of the Klipsch forte model 3.. new that's new in the box never opened sitting in a warehouse for the last 6 years..😊 bought them for song and when I received them I opened them up.. plug them in and I'll tell you they sound identical to the Klipsch forte model 4.. in an absolute Sonic perfection.. the price paid for the two matched pair that's four matched speakers American Walnut with salt and pepper screens. Praise paid less than the price of one new pair of the Klipsch f o r t e 4 ... Always be on the hunt be patient you'll find what you're looking for in time if you have the ability to do a deep search