Andy Goode DESTROYS Eddie Jones | The Rugby Pod React to England vs South Africa

[@SpartanHighKing14]

I'm a die-hard Springbok supporter but I've been following Premiership Rugby closely for many years. Its very frustrating how Eddie Jones keeps ignoring in-form players. Most of the current England are so psychologically damaged from all the criticism and poor form in recent years that it makes more sense to build a new squad entirely. Guys like Mako, Jamie George, Billy, Manu, May, Youngs, Cowan-Dickie are all finished. I would love to see guys like George Mcguigan, Jamie Blamire, Caden Murley, Luke Northmore, Adam Radwan, Ted Hill and Ollie Lawrence in the match 23. These guys perform consistently for their clubs every week and are in great form. This English teams needs some new energy. All the players have stagnated and most of them look like they're not enjoying it anymore.

[@tombutcher3021]

The main thing is we all wish to see a hard fought game and entertaining. Yes we want our teams to win however you are correct why play the same players same tactics which are killing our enjoyment. Players looked shot for energy and enjoyment.

[@2011hwalker]

Great analysis. I agree with your player suggestions-eddie jones is stuck in an echo chamber and cant admit he got selection wrong over the last couple of years.

[@joemartin4751]

Couldn’t agree more. Well said!

[@fred1125]

Hear hear. Especially with regards to Northmore. Very unfairly overlooked player.

[@ryanrr2333]

I totally agree Eddie’s not performing from a coach point of view and also the players ain’t performing from a players point of view. For me there was no direction in the game and they looked lost and shouldn’t have been on the field. I think one true thing Eddie Jones has said though - most who are playing have been to private schools and all these players have ever know is winning or trying too but when things get tough they just get swallowed up by their own self pity.

[@expressoevangelism80]

One plan might be to catch the ball and then pass it to each other. Beyond that, they haven’t a clue.

[@revolution475]

Back to basics 😂

[@rcopterboy]

They couldn't even do that

[@garys8606]

As a springbok supporter … I always think the difference between the 2 teams is Itoje and Etzebeth. Every time they play .. Etzebeth totally dominates Itoje

[@mrbarbelbarbello2332]

As an England supporter, I think that Itoje is not as good as the media says he is.

[@tobyslater2011]

That is like saying "I like Diamonds better than Gold"

[@garfieldbraithwaite8590]

That is absolutely right

[@johnnyshinnichi1785]

Etzebeth dominates everyone.

[@mikespencer4922]

In the last world cup, the Todger fella had one job... just one job. To keep Faf out the game... and he cocked that up.

[@andreemurray7039]

They were rubbish the ticket price is crazy the ground has not been full for all the autumn internationals which says a lot the team getting bood off is a first sadly Jones should go

[@clemfandango619]

The ground was full. That's part of the problem - there's no punishment for bad performances.

[@regularnt1132]

Eddie jones should be ashamed. We ultimately played SA b side. Lukhanyo Am,psdt,wiese,koch,kolbe,Snyman,Reinach and many more didn’t played but we were absolutely owned

[@bobsponge3747]

As a bok supporter I must say I miss Snyman. Wish he would get back in. Hope to see him play again.

[@willk1756]

@@bobsponge3747 Likewise. As an England supporter he's a beast of a player.

[@dawidkimberg]

As a Bok supporter I don't think Bok fans made too much of these missing players because we have great depth and there is a feeling now that whenever somebody is injured, there are a number of players who are ready to step up. There are a few players missing who are world class game breakers but their replacements get the job done.

[@clemfandango619]

We're England at full strength?

[@markbruce7674]

England for the last ten years have alway s fallen just short of excelling consistently. They have all the skillsets to do it and players to execute it but they jave never had the mentality correct...they cant change their game plan to B when A is nit working...they just go numb. S.a...Nz etc are masters on average in doing this and the players arrogance has to change...you are not world champions if you have not won the final. Yiu are mot going to beat S.a id you have just drew with N.z. the excuses are also ridiculous...just listen to this clip....its been going on for years....get the players mental strength right and england can do it no problem...its never mentioned or coached..

[@IronCross666]

Jim & Andy, you are 100% right. Eddie should've gone after 2019 WC. English rugby are far from their potential.

[@dirkcampling4642]

I’ve said that as well he needs To go 👍I won’t pay for prime why are England on that it’s friendlies 🤔another way of making money 🤬 I watched a bit at Northampton saints after we played barbarians England have gone backwards imo

[@St_AngusYoung]

It could be worse. You could have our coach Ian Foster as yours.

[@fu8713]

NZ feel the same about foster lol he is totally 💩👎🏻👎🏻

[@Rickladdy]

Worth watching Squidge Rugby's opinion on the England game plan. My issue is that the path to achieving it is soul destroying.

[@alexchapman3906]

Yeah. After watching that I question how much people analyse a game or just look at the score.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

This is MUSIC TO MY EARS !!!!!! Finally someone is telling it like it is. This has been going on for nigh on 3 years in one form or another. There is nothing new here. This thread is great too, finally some hard hitting opinions.

[@waynewanderer]

i too have been calling Eddie the wrong man since the last WC . What did it for me was the final when Sinkler went off and we had absolutely no plan B at all , just bung on Dan Cole and hope for the best.............. we`ve had stinkers at 6N`s levels and haven`t really looked anything like a well drilled side for years , the odd win has gotten Eddie out of the poo . Just think about the six nations coming up , Italy are playing WELL above their usual standard , Wales maybe shite but against England they always turn up with fire in their bellies and i honestly think that Scotland Ireland and France will all give us a lesson in how to play the game

[@tonkerdog1]

Against the All Blacks our comeback merely papered over the cracks that have been evident for some years. Last weekend, we ran out of that paper.

[@agr7879]

Exactly. I’m sick of hearing about those ‘10 mins’ as I am the semi final in 2019. The following week, we get totally dominated by SA. Our pack is a major worry. It used to be our only strength! NZ, SA, France and even Ireland are miles ahead of us now

[@smoozerish]

As an Irishman I'm begging England to keep Eddie Jones in charge

[@2011hwalker]

well he will absolutely be gone post world cup. 100% he is toast.

[@celticlofts]

@@2011hwalker: He didn't even last that long which is good for England. He should have gone post 2019 World Cup.

[@davidpearn2484]

Well Borthwick isn't any better

[@danielokeeffe6358]

For such a surly man, Borthwick has truly been the banter choice

[@howardamor3042]

As a previous international rugby analyst, I can say that 75% of tries are scored off quick ball, viz NZ. You sometimes need slow ball but the object should be to use that to ultimately create the quick ball you need to beat defences. England ball presentation is currently 50% slow and 40% medium slow. You can play the intergalactic back div & flankers off slow ball & the only way they'll make a dent is if the defence screws-up. Eng must build attacks creating ever quicker ball and ultimately play much faster more often

[@crisfilips2908]

England have some of the most incredible players ever and Eddie Jones is making a dinner that a frog wouldn't eat. This is 2022 going into 2023 and the coaching is like it's in the dark ages. The comment from Eddie Jones of "I don't care what anybody thinks" says it all. Same with Gareth Southgate. These people need to let them play how they play best. With freedom!!!!!!!!!

[@2011hwalker]

well in fairness Southgate opened the game up today and made a good selection

[@garethhills6569]

‘Some of the most incredible players ever’ 🤣🤣🤣

[@biondinoxyz1993]

None doubts he is a great coach, but nothing is working ATM. Press conferences are becoming more and more ridiculous. What he did with Japan was outstanding, he's not capable of replicating that success with England full stop. English rugby has so many entertaining players hopefully they will come through and play exciting rugby.

[@oldmanwillyboy2786]

He's not a great coach! He's been a lucky coach, and a solid coach, at times! But he's basically a conman! A good one, but just a conman.........Unfortunately, even good conmen start losing the plot, when they start believing their own BS!.........

[@mikekelly321]

What are you on about? He took England to a world cup final.

[@oldmanwillyboy2786]

@@mikekelly321 I suppose if you rate 2nd place as something to be excited/proud of, losing a final, he might seem like a "great coach"............And maybe that attitude, of "2nd best" being good enough, is why England are in the situation they are?.............One rarely (or never) hears of NZ or Boks fans, pundits or players(past & present) saying "but we got to the RWC final!" And sounding happy, or even content with not winning that final!........ Plus do you honestly believe this England team/squad, with the softest draw possible, will win the RWC in France? Throw in his/England's record since then.............

[@galatzy01]

@@mikekelly321 Three years ago, world of rugby has moved on.

[@jasonwadsworth1160]

@@mikekelly321 yes, a one off performance against the all blacks, but a team that plays consistently and to their strengths and knows their game plan, would have produced a better game in the final. England don't know how to attack, and still don't.

[@jdQuinnn]

In defence of the England pack-the much vaunted France pack couldn't get the better of the Boks playing with a man advantage, among the forwards, for 70 minutes (of which the last 10 minutes was against 6 forwards) .

[@jakemiddleton5266]

Yes, but last year England found a way around the SA advantages and won the game with similar levels of scrum pens, territory and possession. This year they went back to the gainline obsessed physical game. England simply don't have the personnel to do that. They do however have the personnel to play a fast, dynamic game based around turnovers, broken play and backs who can win one-on-one's. Slade barely featured, Marchant has become disenfranchised and is going to France, Hassell-Collins and Murley didn't get a game. Lawrence and Daly didn't either. Manu played 13 despite being a 12. Dombrandt and Earl weren't called up. Mako, Genge, Sinkler, Stuart, Curry and a fair few others have proven they can play a looser style but didn't because of the tactical choices. That comes from the leadership team and coaches.

[@nahshondaniel5824]

@@jakemiddleton5266 last year u had a biased ref

[@jakemiddleton5266]

@@nahshondaniel5824 Every team can always blame the ref. For example, you could easily argue that this year you has the biased ref! Clear blocking on the first try, knock on and playing the ball on the ground for the second. It doesn't achieve anything to look to the ref, not the players and tactics. I'll admit, England rode their luck a year ago. Sometimes the 50/50s go your way. Just like they did for SA against England. Unfortunately for you, you needed those 50/50s against Ireland and France. Even if you didn't get those tries you'd have found others against England. Absolutely dominant. Last year England found some SA defensive weaknesses and had far more tenacity in their own defence. Which is impressive since they had a far less experienced team including players who've not had a cap since.

[@eoinh3816]

Ireland didn’t give the Bok Pack an inch

[@davidpearn2484]

​@@jakemiddleton5266 God give it a rest you lost again get over it England are way behind Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and probably Australia.

[@TheMarketSniper1]

Malherbe is a quiet as a church mouse, yet is a scrummaging Monster, picture of humility with pure strength, ENG need some quiet set piece megapower, scandal not to be in World XV

[@RugbyJackal]

Goodie, you had me at 'wizards sleeve.'

[@TheMarketSniper1]

Respect for the candour on England. In Mitigation I do feel RSA has been a bit under the radar, That Front Row is one of the best we turned out in awhile from a nation never poor in that space, same for the Lineout, with Mostert truly growing into his role. The World XV only having Marx in the forwards is laughable. Bok Pack takes wXV pack. I felt RSA dominated the Irish in the forwards & beat the French Pack with PTSD off early, but was wasteful in other places & picked up needless RED cards from once off errors. I do feel there is a 'jack the lad 'petulance, wannabe hardman unearned strut in Johnny Hill & to some degree Itoje too, with being the 'Afters' heroes, but not actually being the bosses they think they are in talent and legally in the contact. Englands greatest recent performance was 2019 WRC semi where i felt score wise NZ got off lightly, ENG's forwards established ascendency & were brilliant. Unfortunately RSA is the ideal team to counter ENG's strength & for RWC's will be a Bogeyman team on account of countering ENG's traditional strengths. ENG will do better in tight forward contests vs AB's & maybe AUS in a RWC, by style imo. EJ won a medal with RSA in 2007,. I don't feel ENG have the talent to outplay RSA at their forward first game, So a coach change is unlikely to change that, after a new broom effect, they will battle with a set peice kings side when RSA is not gone off the rails as they are sometimes want to do in between WC's. Just my view, but best if ENG avoids Boks, Hope AB's knock them out & then need to be better vs NZ, prev week was flattery, they deserved a beating there Beadens card was soft imv. & penalty stream friendly to twickenhams booo level. Good luck enjoy the recovery & tourny as it comes.

[@speak_your_truth.]

Needless red cards Lol. 🤡

[@joewoodland8635]

I agree with everything you've just said but it's not as if we don't have the talent available for selection that we could target SA weaknesses. Quite frankly the inflexibility of england smacks of arrogance to me. And it costs us games.

[@noelmaher4633]

I was at the Irish game, your deluded}

[@expressoevangelism80]

My cry once more for Rob Baxter to be recognised for the talents and fore-site that he has exercised for many years. Andy Farrell and Saun Edwards are 2 other guys with proven potential. It would be nice to keep it English.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

And look what happens when we do. We have no proven international coaches on this island. They come by once in a century. Shaun Edwards has been ignored for years by the RFU. There is noone else except Farrell and he is very busy in Ireland. What has Baxter done??

[@daviiidoff]

Hands off Farrell bro he’s ours 😂

[@jakem834]

Rob Baxter is not international standard. Hasn’t adjusted to the way the game is played. Mark McCall would be the obvious choice after Scott Robertson.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

@@daviiidoff I know. Its a bummer!

[@admiralbenbow5083]

@@jakem834 Id take a slightly different tack on that one. We dont know if Baxter is international standard because he has no track record. Neither has McCall.

[@johnthomson7717]

Cost of matches is on the up - Scotland vs Wales £130+ per ticket then £26 for 4 cans of Gordon’s GnTs X 2 people for 80mins 😮

[@waynewanderer]

GnT`s??? jeeez there`s ya problem pal , the games gone proper woos

[@tjsteenekamp6588]

As a Springbok fan my view is that he should stay. Seriously though, he is a far better technical analyst and has shown that when he helped us in 2007 at the World Cup.

[@trentsutton896]

I’m a kiwi and If Razor gets the job for England ill be a red rose fan for sure ! Hope he gets a chance . I Love the English People there banter and the characters they have in the England squad are awesome 👏🏻

[@inBODwetrust13]

Maybe the Premiership isn't as amazing as you lot sell it as being? The clubs overall don't do particularly well in Europe despite the competitions literally being designed to benefit the English clubs. Compare it to the URC where you have the likes of the Ospreys struggling down the bottom with most of the first choice Welsh pack while the equivalent Premiership team might have one or two international calibre players

[@ivanmynhardt]

I love Andy Goode since he had a stint at the SHarks in Durban and Jim spending some time in SA in his youth. I can appreciate their opinions on most things because he love the game and have a unbiased view which is refreshing. Most Podcasts are so biased.

[@dairet1945]

Goode would run the backs better than anyone on the England team at the moment. Very under rated guy.

[@jasonclarke104]

But imagine the food bill

[@whtwht]

Yes the Saracens one of course

[@admiralbenbow5083]

I disagree. Strongly. He was never worth his place. Only Johnson thought so and that is or was a recommendation for nothing. Goode was bloody lucky to get a single cap.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

@@whtwht I think he means the Leicester one on the video.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

And a very over rated fly half.

[@lexas1]

And it was Springboks Lite. Their injury list looked like their team list. I watched some Stormers last night, so much pep, so much imagination, so much finesse in the offloads. Quite a contrast to England.

[@daneswan1025]

Definitely not Springboks lite... the only serious omission was Lukanyo Am, the rest are pretty much on par with the starters on the weekend.

[@surfsnow1371]

@@daneswan1025 lol..Lood De jager, Am, Vermeulen, Psdt. Definetely Boks lite.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

My pub second team could have given England a run out at the weekend.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

Try watching some premiership then you will see why people here are so F pissed off.

[@kevinbaxter7390]

RFU will keep face and stay with EJ,s regardless. EJ,s picks his mates must have some Southgate blood in him. All about Opinions!! Tuilagi. BV .Faz.Nowell .May. Cockiseinga. Thanks for your time 👏

[@leuvenisaplace]

The Southern Hemisphere teams will take a lot of belief away from the shambles of the English set piece. I thought the English backs looked sharp with the ball in hand against the AB backs, who still may be a bit stigmatised about events at the 2019 WC. The Bok backs had no such problem.

[@nefarious8278]

Nah it’s just cuz NZ have a shit head coach aswell

[@marlecmarine5393]

Eddie Jones has never recovered from 2019 loss to SA. He has to go, he is deluded and has been wasting the time of the England players, it is sickening to watch. The RFU is cowardly, they need to sack him.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

Totally.

[@2011hwalker]

100%

[@Davidkxf]

SA would have won that WC final that day, no matter who they played, they wanted it so bad.

[@biglongun]

@@Davidkxf South Africa had already lost in that tournament and would have lost again to NZ. England that day were poor

[@Davidkxf]

@@biglongun I know I watched every minute of the entire world cup. I said SA were unbeatable on the day not through out the tournament.

[@bradleycooper1609]

The RFU is run by amateurs and Eddie his a busted flush you guys spot on with your analyst thanks for saying what most Fan's are thinking 🏉🏉🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🌹👍😁

[@leplessis8179]

A new blazer every year (on expenses), free entry to all the games, free travel to all the games, free food at all the games, - and no responsibility. Why, the RFU committtee will all be satnding as MP's next ................

[@murraymoore5662]

I think England should have an ENGLISH coach - that in my opinion is the key ingredient in the South African recipe.

[@nicholaswiltshire6356]

Couldn't agree more. I'm NOT being racist at all but WE invented the bloody game and I firmly believe that whatever country you are, a HEAD COACH should be from that country. And I firmly believe that it should be simply country of birth and parentage for who you should represent. End of. How many Samoans, Fijians or Tongans have played for the All Blacks??? Play for YOUR country guys, NOT for the glory of another nation.

[@grantcrossley9854]

As a SA supporter and getting frustrated by some of their play lately, I was looking forward to seeing the England side give them a really good game and possibly beat SA. I have always been impressed by England over the 90's up until recent and felt that England always selected the number one player in each position and you could always be assured of an exciting backline performance. Where is that backline that ran SA ragged in 2018. Even though Jonny May is still around, I never saw him on Saturday. Marcus Smith can put himself about at times however his defense against Arendse was extremely poor. Where is George Ford or is there another option in England? The two fly halves and essentially a loose forward at 13 leaves the whole lot of questions. Eventually Jonny May decided to go and give the forwards a hand. I don't think anyone will fault the RFU if they make a change. All the best for the season ahead.

[@jakemiddleton5266]

Yeah, I think England are caught between trying to be physical (we saw that won't win us a World Cup, thanks for that tough lesson!) and playing as they are in the English Premiership which is more focused on using quick ball and attacking with the backs. Currently the personnel is an odd mixture of both and it simply doesn't work. In Smith's defence, he is England's best attacking 10 by a mile. At his club he regularly generates tries for his team from broken play in his own half and on the backfoot which only a handful of international 10s can do (Ntamack, Mo'unga, Russell are the only other 3 I can think of). Farrell and Ford have done it less times in their careers than he has done this year. And I do not expect any static 10 to make the cover tackle when the winger is running at full speed with that much space. I doubt there is a 10 in World Rugby that is touching him in that situation. The problem is that Smith doesn't play that role at his club, but then is expected to know how to defend a 1-on-1 out wide for England. Mental. Just let your 10 defend where they are comfortable. Losing a bit of gainline isn't the end of the world. Carter always lost ground in defence, but they didn't throw him off somewhere he would be exposed just to avoid losing a bit of ground.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

The source of the problem IS the RFU. They picked Andy Robinson, they picked Martin Johnson, and they picked Stuart Lancaster. Long ago they ignored Brian Ashton and they have ignored Shaun Edwards for 10 years +. Now they cannot make a decision on Eddie Jones. You have no idea of the level of incompetence and ineptitude of these people. They cannot organise a pissup in a brewery.

[@adriaanjacobs5073]

The Springboks love giving the English rugby lessons eh?

[@smanqele]

Ok, SA supporter...

[@admiralbenbow5083]

@@adriaanjacobs5073 And when it goes the other way you stop gloating dutchman, and start whining about referees.

[@mykeday]

Eddie is still bitter about losing in 2003. He's playing the long con. It's all about taking them down from within. It's his revenge.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

That just about equates with believing in Q Anon.

[@mykeday]

@@admiralbenbow5083 it's called sarcasm

[@admiralbenbow5083]

@@mykeday I know...

[@stefwessels955]

As mike Tyson says.. “everyone has a plan until he gets punched in the face “😉 I’m sure they started with a good one.

[@tombutcher3021]

Lets take on SA at their strongest abilities. Ahh we came off second. rinse repeat...........

[@danielpickess2027]

Don't moan about the ticket price, just don't go until it's reasonable

[@Timothy_Pitt]

That spectators go, indicates they think ticket prices are reasonable

[@Br0kensaint1]

Honestly as a South African i think the criticism again Eddie is a bit harsh. I don't think it's a doom and gloom situation. England has the wood over New Zealand. Eddie has a good rugby brain.

[@Kernowking101]

I bet you'd like it if we held onto him!

[@speak_your_truth.]

Eh?

[@Br0kensaint1]

@gavinmanclark4434 under Eddie England has looked a very different side. We as South Africans never felt easy when playing any side coached by Eddie.

[@richardd7328]

I've never seen an England Scrum pushed backwards at Twikenham

[@ventnorgoosen4239]

The fact that the executive board members of the England rugby team prefer to remain anonymous gives off a bad impression of their leadership. It makes me appreciate how Rassie is accountable for his antics whether he is right or wrong he has the balls to make decisions knowing there will be backlash, the calibre of men are different. After watching this video I respect Rassie more.

[@Gilescowdemdem]

So much YES to this. I honestly wouldn't mind the losses if we looked like they were building towards something and the games were exciting, players showed energy and passion etc etc. Also need to give serious consideration to the brand of Rugby we're playing and whether this 'master plan' is doing more damage than good, even if it does turn out we win the world cup (somehow). The premiership is in tatters, peoples cost of living is through the roof, is this really the time for a brand of rugby that literally no fan can defend and get excited about?

[@billparry7058]

Jones did a good job when he started but it's clear he has reached the end.

[@Go_for_it652]

Explain how Eddie held held England back . He doesn’t tell players to do certain actions .

[@BisiLIFE]

For me, it's a no brainer: Collect Scott Robertson and *any* coach he regards. I'm a NZ fan _(don't get me started on Foster😖😤)_ and I *definitely* don't support England in the 6 Nations...however, I do like a lot of these Eng players. Moreover, I think they have the potential to be a truly top world class rugby team. But they need Robertson to do it. And they need him NOW! He has already said he wants to coach at a RWC✅ He is happy to coach *any* nation at a RWC✅ He's a winner✅ He understands forwards play, being the coach of Canterbury, as opposed to the Blues✅ And here's the *REAL* reason why England RFU should do this now: It will send a *SHOCK WAVE* throughout world rugby. Every RFU, coach and player - esp those teams who fancy themselves as potential RWC 2023 winners - they will *ALL* take note of England. All of them. A sim *Ha NILE!* Can you imagine what that announcement would do for the England players, and potential England players? In the words of that ol' conniving maestro, emperor Palpatine: DO IT!!!!!! Go out and bring him in sharpish. and enjoy 2023😉

[@ianwright782]

I was there Saturday. 81000 people stadium but judging by the ones permanently getting up and walking around, discussing their new kitchens and those just generally chatting during the game less than quarter were there to watch the game. Most don't seem to worry about the price of a ticket.

[@waynewanderer]

it really pisses me off , there are some who turn up at Exeter (and other grounds i`m sure) who stand with their backs to the game until a try is scored and the crowd cheers , they will literally talk and talk and talk about absolutely ANYTHING except rugby , they just want to get smashed and take a fkn selfie!!

[@Alex-qv5ln]

I don't think these criticisms really hold water if you view the performances of Eddie and the other England coaches in their full context. Based purely off of win percentages, he is the most successful coach England have ever had. Even with the disappointing results this year, we are still more or less as successful as were in 2018, and Eddie went on from that year to give us some of the best quality rugby we have ever seen from an England side. Detractors claim that the idea that Eddie is being reticent to deploy his most effective game plan in order to reach the team's apex at the same time as the world cup is wishful thinking or conspiratorial, but looking at the evidence in its totality, the argument that Eddie has simply lost it, and the best course of action is to bin him off is untenable. Firstly, Eddie as a coach has always held the world cup as the highest priority for his international sides, and the rfu in contracting him made clear that what they wanted from his premiership was a world cup, first and foremost. Following from this, a repeating pattern of Jones' sides, even when the team's win percentage is successful relative to the team he's leading, he has always dipped in success in the year prior to the world cup, before rocking up to the tournament itself and exceeding the expectations of all of his naysayers. This happened in 2003 with Australia, 2015 with Japan and 2019 with England. He was only a technical advisor for South Africa in 2007, but elements of this pattern still emerged. Based on this very superficial analysis alone, it is clear enough that Eddie absolutely has significant designs for next year that we are not entirely privy to. Whether those designs will be successful is a more complicated argument, but denying their existence entirely is simply irrational. Just based off simple statistical analysis, this should be clear, you could come to this conclusion even if you didn't know the rules of rugby. Keeping on with statistics before I talk about England's gameplay specifically, it is also true that international test rugby is the closest it has been at least in my memory. With this in mind, it's my opinion that people tend to misunderstand odds and probabilities. If it were possible to perfectly calculate the objective quality of each team and their staff, and use this to perfectly calculate the odds of each fixture, it would hypothetically be possible for England to be objectively better than all the other top five or ten teams in the world, but still to come out with even more losses in a year than we saw in 2022. As such we have to take each performance, especially each loss, on its own merits. From this perspective, it's unfair to judge Eddie on a poorer than expected 6 Nations performance. England lost three games in that tournament, against Scotland, Ireland and France, in that order. Knowing Eddie, its safe to say his aim for this tournament was to throw Marcus Smith in at the deep end, choosing to grow his potential and understanding of England's attack, while (to a greater extent than other coaches) keeping the final puzzle pieces of his game plan in hand, at the risk of subpar performances in the here and now. From this perspective, the tournament was a great success for England, as Smith improved game on game, gaining a lot of intelligence, patience and maturity as a ten while keeping the flair, talent and skills that makes him so exciting in the prem. The Scotland game saw Smith at his most fresh, oftentimes squandering attack opportunities in favour of going himself, playing as if he were still at Quins rather than an international test game. That game was only lost by three points, which given Smith's improvement over the tournament means that, England could have very feasibly won that game with the Smith we saw at the end of the tournament. Eddie knew the risk of bleeding a new fly half in this way but he did anyway, something which I think should be commended. Wasn't hesitance to take such risks something that did Joe Schmidt in? The Ireland loss is not something anyone reasonable could blame Eddie for. In fact the way England managed to keep the scores level for 70 minutes against an Ireland side on top of their game ought to have made opposition coaches nervous. The France loss was in a way to be expected given their utter dominance in the competition to that point, but even then, the scoreline did not reflect the game: England were very strong in that game, and shut France down in a way they hadn't experienced up to that point. If my memory is right, France scored two unlikely tries due to some flash moments of individual brilliance that could have easily gone the other way. All this to say a slightly disappointing result in a competition against some of the best teams in the world playing their best rugby in years, while still doing a lot better than 2018 hardly spells doom, and using the 6 nations defeats as a stick to beat Eddie over the head with is hardly fair. Especially, again, while we know for a fact that Eddie wants this team to play their best rugby contemporaneously with the world cup, and is definitely keeping aspects of his game on the training camp. However, it's not just the 6 nations but the autumn which has the people riled up, but looking closer at the defeats, I think they tell a similar story. While in the 6 nations, Eddie wanted to spur Smiths improvement (among some other new players) while laying down the foundations for a new attack pattern while also getting the measure of their biggest threats, France and Ireland (this is a big oversimplification). In the autumn, I imagine Eddie wanted something similar, except this time, moving closer to his complete game plan due to the return of Farrell giving England their captain back and providing them with the dual playmaker system Eddie has favoured in the past, and is vital to the new kind of attack England are developing. People are quick to say that 'Smith and Farrell doesn't work,' to which I say, maybe have some patience? Rapport, chemistry and trust to the level that Ford and Farrell have achieved takes time, and the two had hardly played together until this series, except for a pretty successful series in Australia. Getting the two experience together while keeping under wraps what he wants to keep secret and winning games is a tightrope which is tricky to walk, and all things considered, upsets like Argentina are in a way inevitable. However, the game was only lost by one point, England dominated stats across the board and scored some really good tries in my opinion. Argentina, especially under Cheika have been playing really well, capable enough of an upset against one of the top teams, it just so happened that this time it happened to be England. And the only thing that did us in for that game was poor discipline, a very fixable problem. This brings us onto the New Zealand game, which Eddie detractors massively undervalue. Judging solely by the quality of players New Zealand have the best in the world, and for that game, they played the game the best it can be played in my opinion, and England not only matched them but exceeded them in the second half (not just the last ten minutes). Maybe people ignore the significance of the result due to NZ's poorer performances a year or two ago, but recently, they are back, and playing the best rugby an All Blacks side is capable of playing (Seriously I love this game). Even more promising is the fact that during that game (especially in the second half) England I think indulged, more than any of their previous games, the most in the kind of attack Eddie is planning to bring to the fore next year. Maybe if it wasn't for a once in a career mistake from a new scrum half who otherwise had a great game. And Finally, the SA game. This was an abjectly weak performance, with not a lot of mitigating circumstances. One thing that might be mentioned is that bringing out a performance in attack in the same vein as the last week against NZ really would give the game away, in fact I'd be surprised if we saw much of it in the coming 6 Nations. That doesn't however, excuse the defence and the set piece. I don't see how replacing Eddie will magic these better however, and current defence coach is leaving before the next 6 Nations anyway. Digging deeper into England's gameplay itself and what we might expect to see next year will require looking further into what Eddie tends to do with respect to the teams and players he has had access to. I don't understand enough specifically about the complexities of modern tactics to write too much about it but I will say this. Something I think should go without saying about Eddie is that he is extremely ambitious, extremely talented and extremely successful. Recent dips in form aside, Eddie is one of the best coaches modern rugby has seen, often being the trendsetter for a lot changes the game has seen over the years. Something especially exciting is that when everything clicks, England have the fastest ruck speed out of any of the top nations. In open play they utilise this by splintering the traditional pod structure used by most teams and often allowing forwards and backs to become interchangeable in open play (this is another big oversimplification). It is definitely unorthodox, and ambitious, but isn't ambition what we want as fans? And seeing how Eddie had shown up when it matters, not just once but numerous times, seeing Eddie binned off right at the last hurdle would just make me feel. . . Sad. But that's just me Definitely didn't mean to start writing so much when I started typing but there you go. Apologies.

[@Alex-qv5ln]

Also I was ballboy for a Champions cup game between wasps and leinster seven years ago in which in the final minutes with the game drawn 20-20, Andy Goode made the decision to go for the drop goal and proceeded to absolutely cork it into the corner flag, and that level of competency really feels analogous to the rfu at the minute, smh.

[@maddiebarnes]

literally shut up. no one cares

[@maddiebarnes]

there are an infinite number of universes....

[@maddiebarnes]

also hi Alex

[@kennethdale6260]

Andy Farrell and Shaun Edwards are a must for England at some stage.

[@thewomble1509]

Robertson and Edwards would be the dream team.

[@csdvideouk]

We’re awful. Let’s not forget we lost to Argentina at Twickenham… bar a 10 minute salvo against the All Blacks this Autumn has been very damning. It’s clear as day he has to go.

[@2011hwalker]

got to go, absolutely clown at this point.

[@patrickcoote8441]

I thought Ireland did great at not inviting South Africa’s back three into the game and although super physical and defensively strong they didn’t create a lot. If you look at a lot of the South African scores they are all off England lose play or penalties. What are England planning as a foundation? It looks like a power pressure game but Smith’s DNA is to run with the ball and does that in his day to day. Some changes could allow them to start with the power and use finishers when the game opens up.

[@patrickfarrell5092]

I really enjoyed Andy and Jim's analysis. Jim is right, some coaches hide behind World Cup expectancy, it really yanks my chain, it should be about the here and now, roll on 6 Nations. Respect from Ireland 🇮🇪

[@diogeneslantern18]

I remember when Andy Goode played in SA - was it the Lions? Or the Sharks? I like him 🤗

[@jasonclarke104]

England cannot win the WC2023 under EJ so there’s nothing to lose by sacking him. Get the future in now and let’s start enjoying watching rugby again.

[@mykeday]

A huge amount of money is there to lose due to his contract.

[@edharding9363]

alot of mentions of the ticket price, how bad was it?

[@BLUES_N8]

So many talented consistency players in Premierships Rugby

[@andrewturner5449]

Its not just Eddie Jones its the players as well,just like 2015 all over again.

[@mungo101]

Farrell has no place in the team let alone the squad. Mako is over the hill. Billy is a one-trick pony and seems to have regained the timber he had shifted. Complete lack of leadership - Farrell has never provided that. Seems that the team is disjointed and think that starts with the Jones-Farrell relationship. Need to be brave and get rid of Jones - how much worse off can we be? There is only potential upside to a change of Coach and Captain.

[@redneckReno]

agree with Hamilton about pegging everything on the World Cup.... Win now....win consistently and the World Cup will work itself out....

[@doraldeddy1836]

Think it’s disrespectful of EJ to continually talk about the WC and seemingly park the 6 Nations. Every game should a target to win. Not jam tomorrow ie. The WC! As far as that’s concerned, there’s Bob Hope and no hope IMO!

[@arnolddalby5552]

Eddie Jones is playing his old Kick and Tackle rugby. Rugby is played with ball in hand attacking the defence.

[@Rickladdy]

100% agree with Jim on the 'World Cup' point 👏

[@PrimalBlue-l6o]

Sounds like the issues facing Wales, Australia and NZ regarding coach retention and performance. Seems only Ireland and France coaches are safe.

[@jacquesdutoit7373]

I reckon Goodie would be coaching the backs better 👍

[@johndonson1603]

Edie Jones must have a wizards sleeve .

[@EEllis84]

From an Irish man watching England play;a few of your players have miles on the clock and at a stage in their career now when they can't impact a game

[@honest1296]

The world cup should not be mentioned by any coach in a non-world cup year. It is hiding behind a loss as Jim says.

[@lanceelliott1145]

As a South African I know the Boks played well and that England weren't at their best. Having said that Eng played a HIGHLY motivated and Pi$$ed off Bok side. The 50/50 calls that went against them in previous games and World Rugby's silence with regard to addressing 2nd rate reffing had infuriated them. Normally Eng only plays a motivated Bok side.. Eng were bad but against any other top side would not have looked as bad, given the circumstances. This Bok mindset was a one-off which any team would have struggled to counter. Eng will improve, remember how the Boks came back from being about 6th a year out from the previous WC to winning it.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

Strange isnt it that noone else is whining about referees. This has been a S African habit for decades, there is nothing new here, and guess what, its always the Boks that get the short end of it. Boks tour to Europe, won 1 lost 3 just F deal with it instead of the whining and the excuses. It is REALLY ugly.

[@conormarren]

Jones exemplifies the carrot or stick method, if you use the stick, you get good results for a short period of time, but then the donkey gets tired of abuse and doesn't know what to do anymore because he keeps getting the stick no matter what. Balance is key. No way England win the WC under Eddie Stick Jones

[@Driver2616]

As an Ireland fan here, I am imploring you guys over there in England, please keep Marcus Smith at number 10 for the next Six Nations competition. Thanks 😂

[@ribotc40]

100% It’s wearing to hear the World Cup referenced time and time again. That tournament should not be used to justify below par performances. Surely? Do autumn internationals matter? Do six nations matches matter? No team can exist with the sole purpose of the World Cup. No other teams appear to either?

[@Firepunch5001]

Will England come approach Rassie Erasmus as the new coach?

[@brettfleiner4906]

Eddie's biggest issue is he only selects players that will bow down and accept his weird and childish style of belittling people while flexing his "superior" rugby intellect.

[@diarmooc2621]

When some of his backroom team left last month he said how it wasn't bad blood and he likes to improve coaches and see them move on to bigger things..... What about the actual England team Eddie? You know, the job you were hired for?!

[@mikewillemse3761]

you can only play as well as you are allowed to by your opposition. England were never allowed to get out of the starting blocks and were solidly outclassed.

[@GarthWader]

Absolutely correct not helped by team selection and tactics.good to see a Jones team take the opposition on in the forwards to tie there back row in early doors.

[@nickrad6966]

Goodey's a legend

[@petes9524]

Jeeze guys, unclench the sphincters, England aren't "rubbish", they're just average. What you don't understand is that the Boks are on track to win their 4th RWC and dominate for the next decade at least😉

[@andrepoole2712]

I cannot disagree with this. The assembly line of players waiting behind their first choices in every position is most frightening!

[@LansMalherbe]

Great interview

[@Valhalla88888]

If the Scots beat us at Twickenham in 2023 (remember in 5 games we've only won 1 game against the Scots) Jones needs to be sacked on the night after🤗

[@curty920]

Mweshimiwa do not let anyone stop you from doing your job, you understand your duty.

[@andrewsmith-cm9qw]

The World Cup is a far away event in a foreign country that has fuck all to do with today and the price of kippers the game you are playing in is the only game a rugby player should be concerned with the World Cup is the default go to for crap coaches hanging on to the last penny (Jones Townsend Pivac )

[@duncanprice3088]

Rugby is simple. Kick, run, and tackle COMPETENTLY. Get those 100% , you are 80% there. England KEEP IT SIMPLE. STICK to BASICS. Do not be FOOLED by coaches whose favourite fig leaf is to chop & change players ad lib. FORGET the flashy stuff. Sophistication comes off excellent BASICS. Learn to WALK , and then RUN. And then GO GO GO !.

[@anthonyball6413]

Agree with Andy entirely. England have been consistently poor since the 2019 World Cup. And I do not blame the players - It's the leadership from RFU through to Eddie Jones. It makes my blood boil that Farrell is managing Ireland and Shaun Edwards has been consistently overlooked. Why are they not part of the England setup? Watched the Inside Line videos? It's a circus. Reform required top down so that the players we have are supported and led well. And we need one Captain. It's not pass-the-parcel. Oh...and RSA were fantastic. Full credit to them.

[@TimboStash]

Lost the scrum, lost the lineout, lost the aerial battle, lost the collisions but most importantly.. no running from depth and NO TEMPO! Look at the speed of Ireland and Scotland's rucking and distribution. We have reverted to big ball carriers running into bigger lumps, getting slowed down and then running out of tempo. The annoying thing is that this can be easily fixed. Change the angle of attack, move the defences around etc. Take inspiration from the Premiership, which is fast flowing and full of talent.

[@davos4268]

Eddie has a cunning plan… .

[@crisfilips2908]

Any team that allows the team to kick out for a draw is not a winning team.

[@davidhales7770]

The RFU is a joke we are going nowhere as team we need a massive clearance to give us half a chance at the world cup

[@kristian762]

I agree with the sentiment regarding blooding new players, don't put them in jist to see if they're good enough. Only put them in if they're already good enough, and play to win.

[@eddieaguirre605]

American here how much have the tickets gone up?

[@rogermoores9416]

England haven’t looked like scoring a try through the backs since.... I don’t remember.

[@speak_your_truth.]

Steward has scored a few recentlt, what are you on about dude?

[@ottavio2dr]

Andy Goode is a simple soul!

[@dulls8475]

Jones will stay because we dont have the money to remove him.

[@iansymonds6127]

Well that didn’t age well

[@dulls8475]

@@iansymonds6127 No i thought they would try to save the money. Anyway what do i l know about Rugby.

[@agr7879]

Jones simply has to go. Immediately. Gatland, Robertson or Borthwick, I don’t care. There’s no excuse for England, with all its players and resources playing at Twickenham against teams at the end of a long hard season, constantly under performing. No excuses. 4 weeks together in camp and this is what we get. What’s happened to our pack? Our scrimmage?

[@joeboonmusic4004]

Definitely love to see Robertson or Borthwick… Part of me just wants us to wait until after the WC. Then get Shaun Edwards, give him the job he deserves most!

[@agr7879]

@@joeboonmusic4004 unfortunately, he’s just signed a new four year contract with France. Again the spineless rfu miss out on the outstanding Shaun Edwards. Gatland and Edwards would have been the dream ticket

[@joeboonmusic4004]

@@agr7879 I didn't know that... How disappointing! Can you imagine what he'd do with this crop of players?! Still, Borthwick or Robertson would be awesome.

[@mygoogle1482]

they've been absent(rfu) since the rwc final debacle, then he had the 6 nations debacle of picking half the sarries non prem players, then he continues to pick players he knew in his first few years - delivering shocking results with a couple of glimmers in 3 years! which effectively blocks majority of talent required. Jones needs to go now - literally today. But hes not the key the rfu are - theyve literally mismanaged the professional game into a situation where we are the alleged richest union and have demoted a team and managed to have two go bust. Theyve focussed on investing into the womens game signifcantly and now theyre making a loss!! So inept in everything they administer - those in charge have to go.

[@gholfin2124]

The review panel consist of the following twickenham staff: The cleaner, The apprentice groundsman The window cleaner Hence an anonymous panel!!

[@marktucker7976]

Bring Stuart Lancaster back, really good coach

[@grahamriley8124]

He is an excellent coach but he cannot do the top job. He is not suited to it. He would be an brilliant part of the coaching team.

[@michaelsimpson4400]

I agree, no clear direction of play. You look at certain premiership teams and you know before kick off how they will play. With England, you don't.

[@jaselikesbikes]

If England are going to change their playing phylosophy and thereforer their coack they need to do it now to give the new coach a fighting chance. Therer are many examples out there where a new coach revitalizes the team.

[@CleanCutt]

Eddie has lost his mojo. Once a genius ... but sadly no more. Time to move on.

[@starrider529]

As a SAffa, I think Eddie fucked-up by by formulation his game plan based on the traditional Forwards domination play of the Bokke. The game at Twickenham clearly showed that the Bokke have changed that to the 70's/80's/90's style of running game. Sure, the physical onslaught of the Springbok forwards will always be there, but combining that with a lethal back-line, have caused a bit of frustration. England have some of the best players in the world, as do most of the big rugby nations, and we can see that in most club rugby, with players from different countries honing their skills. Ultimately, it all boils down to the national coach to read the game plan of different teams and to select the right players. RWC 2023 is probably going to be the most equally contested tournament ever. Let's see what happens, and may the best team win.

[@paulcottam128]

totally agree i listed to EJ at the press conference after the match as was amazed he must of been watching a different game he is just full of BS, he thinks he is some incredible strategist and forgets about everything else , he has had his time were are going backwards but he wont go till after world cup because RFU havent got the balls to do anything hence the secret review panel

[@darthmaul408]

Whenever I watch England, it’s evident that it’s not the best that they can be, or even close to it. From Eddie Jones’ autocracy to bad selections, it has impacted England massively in terms of progress. They have been left behind by the likes of South Africa, Ireland, France and if everyone was fit, Australia. Jones should have been sacked after the 2021 6 Nations.

[@christianwithers7335]

...energizer Borthwick 👍

[@stevewturnbull]

Henry Slade is a great player but he loses the ball too easily in contact. He's also scored when the opposition were a man down and stretched. But the key issue for me is a lack of creativity, intensity and risk-taking. We showed that in the last ten minutes against the All Blacks. But we need to do that from the start and maintain it for the full game. The pack - our traditional strength - was outclassed though.

[@charlesmorton1891]

I concur with Comrade D as a Bok/Rugby Union fan! Jones was not very good in Australia but has had some lucky breaks: Assistant to Jake White and a great one-off performance with Japan. He is both confused and confusing. Farrell is past it as are the Vunipolas. There is nothing settled in this camp especially amongst the backs. Either play Smith or Farrell but not both and preferably not Farrell. The spine of a team is 2;8;9;10;15 and they have been chopped and changed as if Jones is still experimenting. At this level a coach needs to decide a core of players, have standby subs and may wish to test a player on a one-off basis but not against top-tier opposition. I hear excuses like the huge Bok pack which in fact was about 40kgs lighter than England. Jones is just not up to this standard. But neither was Woodward his biggest critic, so perhaps the fault lies with the "57 Old Farts" across the road.

[@charcolew]

Posting this after the Fiji debacle and the criticisms of England and the players are identical to what was being said here.