The Army is replacing the Black Hawk with this?

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The Bell and Sikorsky V-280 Valor has won the Army's Flight Contract and will be replacing 2000 black hawk helicopters by 2030. 1200 apache attack helicopters will also be replaced by the V-280 Valor. s it just me or does the valor look like a mini Osprey? I hope it doesn't have half the problems the osprey had.
The views expressed on this page or any derivative therefrom are those of myself and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of Defense, the New York Army National Guard, or U.S. Government. ~ A.C.

[@AngryCops]

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[@scipion34]

We lost Drill Sergeant!

[@p.d.palacio]

@@scipion34 Do you like Kroacija

[@lawrencemorris2261]

I just want to say, you underestimate how much modern gamer kids know.

[@renaissanceredneck73]

Really hating "Raid Shadow farts, I mean legends" see that shit everywhere. AHHHHHH

[@Velvex_Vancreed]

Are you going to react to the prisoner trade-off deal between Russia and the United States

[@sliver01]

Imagine someone stealing it, gives a whole new meaning to ‘stolen valor’

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@Graderman3587]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@brianrosenberger6515]

🤣 Same thing came to mind. Semper Fi Devil

[@doctorzed7706]

Ask your wife if she's pregnant. Thats a dad joke.

[@guyver441]

What are we, Russian conscripts?!

[@BLRodgers]

Little known fact is that Bell got the contract by putting Sig Sauer decals all over the airframe, which led to the Army to approving the contract out of force of habit.

[@FUnzzies1]

No

[@zb6618]

@@FUnzzies1 yes

[@Rid_Of_Thee]

Checks out

[@GM6.7]

Seems reasonable 😆

[@ericmacfarlane4249]

Oooohh…that means that unlike the Osprey was, the Valor MUST be drop proof!!

[@pokepersonzach8574]

My time to shine as an Osprey mechanic. You don’t have to be AS worried with the valor as the Osprey on its initial release. The Osprey was very much an experimental aircraft that wasn’t dealt with properly by both pilot training and maintenance practices. A lot of that has been solved. It isn’t perfect and things still happen but risk mitigation has done a lot for the Osprey.

[@AionAlexiel]

What things? Just... things... Ok

[@briandonohue5135]

@@AionAlexiel The Osprey had an average accident rate per 1000 flight hours than other military helicopters

[@jtjames79]

I've been following the development for years, bought stock last year because it seemed obvious to me who the winner will be. Between rapid development and modular design, it's bringing a lot of compute to the platform. Osprey also gets a bad rep when it's statistically one of the safest. The Blackhawk was an absolute ship show when it was new. VTOLs are just inherently dangerous. The F18 crashes at twice the rate of the Osprey for example. It just doesn't get the headlines because it's carrying two crew at most.

[@Tusker2zero2]

In my personal opinion, I can't see the Valor totally replacing the Blackhawk. Your still going to need a smaller footprint helo for tighter urban landing zones. However, I do see potential for the Valor to be an excellent QRF platform for longer range missions from an FOB. I hope they can make it work.

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

We are pretty much making falcons from halo now and I am all for it.

[@rackem6724]

V-280 had a Higher speed, longer range, more familiar system, less issues with the technical demonstrator, the only thing the Defiant had going for it was it matched the "footprint" of the black hawk. It was said that the 3 prop transmission of the defiant was significantly more complex, harder to work on, and MORE prone to failure. I think they made the right choice.

[@StopMakingEveryoneDumb]

The defiant was significantly faster. It is a fucking Ferrari. It's just too maintenance intensive for army operations.

[@toadman506]

Funny thing, the Blackhawk was considered a Deathtrap in it's formative years too

[@DefaultProphet]

As was the F-16 Lawndart. But you know whatever the mainstream media put out during development is apparently all that matters to clowns like AC

[@chrisalexander2478]

Pretty much all military airframes are until they mature a bit.

[@toadman506]

@@DefaultProphet IIRC the F-16's problam had to do with Wire Harnesses Chafing through the Shitty bulkhead Grommets, and tanking the FBW system. Blackhawks issue was the Stabilator suddenly going haywire, and nosing the aircraft in, nevermind the REALLY Bad things that Happened if one went into the Drink (Which is how HEEDS came to be). There hasn't been a Post WWII Aircraft in ANY of the Service's Inventory that didn't have it's teething Issues. That said, Rich's concerns are Valid on this one IMO.

[@rustyhowe3907]

I remember endlessly hearing about Blackhawks so much it went into conspiracy theory territory. Downright worrying when these reoccurrences keep happening, one would hope a formula would be written to avoid it happening over again with new aircraft.

[@INSIGHTCO]

@@toadman506 All the ones from Skunk Works 🦨...

[@RedBeardTheFirst]

Wait, so the owners of Sikorsky were in competition against themselves for the contract? Well played Lockheed Martin, well played

[@masonoliver8873]

Sikorsky entered the FVL competition prior to Lockheed Martin purchasing them. There was a firewall in place for employees working on the different teams.

[@MrWest-ph5yg]

Firewall lol

[@RedBeardTheFirst]

@@masonoliver8873 i didnt know that, but either way the company as a whole couldn't lose

[@philup6274]

America!!!

[@thetruthisoutthereyt]

@@masonoliver8873 LOL, That's rich.

[@FedralBI]

I remember that retired Marine General who called the Osprey "The most efficient Marine killing weapon ever developed."

[@GM6.7]

Ouch

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

Ouch.

[@jonathan-6958]

I was a lance cooley at col Bianca's retirement ceremony (if i recal hos name correctly). He took the time during his speech to absolutely shit on the V22 and i quote, he said "they lied to us about its capabilities" when he was talking about how it crashed and killed many. Never met the man but he instantly earned my respect for calling it what it is. When they would offer rides on the V22, id say "oh the deathtrap? No thanks".

[@grunt2926]

Killed more Marines then the Taliban

[@danielbeights6587]

We also used to call the osprey mid range artillery. Flys downrange, drops out of the sky, and explodes.

[@RyleyStorm]

The defiant is really living up to its name by defying all low expectations by limbowing below every one. Keep it up Lockheed you guys are doing great.

[@rivercityoverland750]

As a Blackahwk mechanic they didn't have the beat reputation either at first. They were called Crash-hawk.

[@Xephisto]

people are just nostalgic for old things. there are people who will swear up and down in years to come, that the humvee shouldn't have been replaced-- despite it being overused in every role it wasn't designed to be in. same reason people act like the 1911 is still better than any other gun.

[@dibingsdibingens8463]

@@Xephisto GOBBLESS THE NINETY ELVEN

[@jimbothegymbro7086]

I mean they did make a whole movie about one crashing

[@multimeter2859]

@@Xephisto Shit talk the 1911 again and you gonna catch these hands. 😏

[@TheGamingPrivate]

@@multimeter2859 1911 is life!!

[@TonberryShuffle]

Watching a soldier trying to do mental math really hit me in the feels 'cause that's what I and some of my coworkers are like at work.

[@DaveSmith-cp5kj]

To be fair, we never use mental math in school or even in university, so next to no one has that skill unless you are a scout sniper or something. And even then, if you have good DOPE you shouldn't be doing much of any math.

[@TonberryShuffle]

@@DaveSmith-cp5kj I was forced to do the mental math in school but it never got any better than what we see in the video. I have to use math all the time for work and my personal life and unless I'm using a calculator it ends up with me looking like a kinder.

[@vroomkaboom108]

@@DaveSmith-cp5kj I thought everybody did mental math on the regular, and i was the kid that hated math lmao

[@donoimdono2702]

@@vroomkaboom108 - it used to annoy me a lot when I was calculating shooter's target scores in my head on the range and everyone else need their phones

[@vroomkaboom108]

@@donoimdono2702 Ikr? It's the entire fun of guessing scores!

[@rezalbb]

I remember the Army grounding the Blackhawks in the mid '80s because they were dropping out of the sky like WKRP turkeys. So I wouldn't expect any replacement to happen without similar "growing pains."

[@davidyarb5885]

Nice WKRP reference for the “lawndart”.

[@ChiefCrewin]

That's the thing, people don't realize the aircraft that have been around for longer have their growing pains figured out. I've been a C130 mechanic for 9 years, that plane has been around since the mid 50s, very rarely do we have a problem the TOs or engineers haven't seen. But I have friends that work on the CV22, that thing, while alot safer than people tend to think, do have a lot of weird problems. Although, the problem AC mentioned in the video has already been fixed.

[@fuzzyhead878]

Not aviation, but weren’t there similar issues with the Arleigh Burke? That thing’s a workhorse now too.

[@rezalbb]

@@fuzzyhead878 That is the rule rather than the exception. Remember what a disaster the Bradley was, then in the battle of Easting they are beating T-72s.

[@stillcantbesilencedevennow]

@@rezalbb tbf, the Bradley's issues were mostly developmental, because we have morons at the top brass spots. "I want it fast, and armored, and armed, and invincible and amphibious, and an autocannon, and missiles and and and.."

[@Jin_Kai]

Seen a lot of videos of Special forces, SEALs, and Delta talk about their love for the Marines but absolute discuss for the Marine high ups for their treatment and disregard of the Marines

[@Chumly409]

Those "high up" in the Marines with that reputation are probably Admirals when you'd think it's the Generals. Just a quick thought, just thinking out loud. No one really hates Marines if they've been in combat, and not just special forces. I think you'd have to get a frontal lobotomy to get past O-6 and I've seen more great Colonel in that branch and they got out to prove it.

[@GPhi425]

Ret Army 15T here. Blackhawks crashed a lot when they first came out too. Basically, the stabilator (horizontal "wing" in the back) had a tendency to drop and the helicopter would nose dive into the ground.. Not cool, but it was eventually fixed. I knew a Marine who worked on Ospreys and he loved them, but riding any new airframe is going to be risky.

[@MetalPigMayhem]

The AFCS would get uncontrolled input from high tension power lines. That's why a lot of the cannon plugs had filters on them troughout the aircraft. At least back in my day that was the fix. I assume that some of those old analog systems have been replaced with digital ones.

[@G.Harley.Davidson]

Ft Eustis still sucks BTW…

[@connerwright94]

Hoping to become a 15T how is it? I scored way above the requirements on my ASVAB.

[@GPhi425]

@@connerwright94 if you like turning wrenches, it's cool. Flight crew is super funny if you can get into a company.

[@connerwright94]

@@GPhi425 I’ve been working with cars since I was a child. I know it’s definitely not the same but it’s something I enjoy. Hoping everything goes well at MEPS. I’ll be kinda sad if I can’t join for some unforeseen reason. Thanks for the info and your service!

[@LongWalkerActual]

Having loaded Army helicopters into Air Force transport aircraft, my greatest curiosity is HOW will the tilt rotor fit in one?

[@curiousentertainment3008]

It won’t but it technically doesn’t need to considering it’s ferry range.

[@pauldelasco]

Velcro lol

[@warrenharrison9490]

@@curiousentertainment3008 every hour of flight time is going to affect longevity, being able to be moved can reduce that wear.

[@The-Almighty-Whitey]

That's a great point! I'm curious as well.

[@krimsonfel3676]

It won’t, the point of being tilt rotor is that they can just fly to the next pacific island by themselves.

[@heatherclifton6543]

Watching Angry do common core math was the highlight of my day

[@swansing9856]

that was hilarious

[@mathewdecorse5748]

Id like to see potato approach that problem. I see him using his fingers and toes

[@donaldmatthies6026]

@@mathewdecorse5748 until he pulls out his tally Wacker and asks what's this for!

[@RinAldrin]

I swear that video for the Valor looks like a toy commercial

[@karlbarfoot2846]

They built and flew the Valor in a year, and was initially was built to show off Bell's ability to rapid prototype an airframe. They've been flying it a lot around Amarillo, and we see it quite a bit. The biggest thing that the Army was looking for when they started the replacement for the Blackhawk was speed. The Valor is twice as fast. The published speed is sandbagging.

[@philup6274]

That classified information. Get a radar gun and make a video proving your claim.

[@LS-mb4my]

Dick riding the army contract engineers isn't going to get you anywhere.

[@_blitzreplayz_5880]

@@philup6274 I doubt anyone will just allow anyone to bring a radar gun to test flights

[@Alakarr]

Speed and range. The Valor has a ferry range of over 2000 miles and a combat radius of 500 to 800 miles depending on combat load. That range blows just about any conventional helicopter our of the water.

[@eriklarson9137]

@@Alakarr *In the land of make-believe.

[@scurveteamsix]

People forget the nickname of the UH-60 in the 80s and 90s, the crash-hawk.

[@orlock20]

Which flew along the F-16 Lawn Dart.

[@JimsEquipmentShed]

At least those were problems that got ironed out on the fly. (Sometimes literally) in 85 I can remember ours being grounded for a while due to a fly by wire radio interference issue. It was resolved, the Blackhawk was still a bloated beast, but it proved itself. The osprey never did.

[@scurveteamsix]

@@JimsEquipmentShed absolutely man, spent a lot of time on the MV-22 this past year in Africa. It’s got it’s problems, but it’s a hell of an airplane. I think the 22s biggest pitfall is it’s inability to shoot back and defend itself and it’s limited hover time. Fuck are they fast though. There are far more 60 crashes than MV crashes, BUT, there are also more 60s than MV/CVs Interestingly enough the statistics almost level out. The 22 carries more troops so their crashes are far more devastating. Lot of different variables to consider.

[@17Liberty76]

I think we should sell the surplus blackhawks to the Russian guy we just traded for a basketball player instead of just giving them to the Taliban. Either that, or see what we can get for them at Makmhud's Military Menagerie

[@bodidley5015]

Fuck no. The Marines will take them and be happy.

[@The-Almighty-Whitey]

Right! Smh

[@17Liberty76]

@@bodidley5015 that would even make sense. Just remember who is calling the shots here. The US government will go with the dumbest idea on the table

[@gamerkiller117]

Hello, this is Australia. we heard you were selling :P

[@willbutler2639]

Oh the drug addict who couldn’t stay off her weed to go play basketball. Then decided to try to smuggle it into the country. Yea really smart. Then the Bright idea by the US was to give them “The Merchant of Death” for a drug addict. Great idea, the US government makes the stupidest decisions I’ve ever seen. I would really like to see who is behind Joe Biden pulling his strings. Who types on the teleprompter for Joe to attempt to read. This courty has gone to sh!t time to get out before Russia gets to playing with the big button because we know Joe can’t and won’t stand up to Putin.

[@derrickdavis7524]

Love you Rich. But you off on this one. A lot of lessons learned to include the prop assembly tilts but the engines don’t, were put in this design. It won’t replace the Apache but the range and speed differences completely change the mission capabilities. Just the thoughts from a 30 Army aviator Q’d in both Apaches and Black Hawks.

[@jasonterrell847]

I'm old enough to remember when UH1 Huey's ruled and the UH60 Black Hawks were the problematic new thing. I'm somewhat biased and quite fond of helicopters that have smaller profiles and can sit down in small spaces. Not to mention, the way those old pilots could fly with such an acrobatic style.

[@TeIegram...me....realATQ1]

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[@professorkatze1123]

the thing with traditional helicopterdesigns is that you can still usually do an energencylanding the thing via auto rotation if something goes wrong. when something goes wrong with this tiltrotor design the aircraft just falls over and drops out of the sky like a rock.

[@flechette3782]

I was going to say the same thing. I remember people complaining, "Why don't we just buy more Hueys? Blackhawks are too unreliable!" Thankfully, these people are not in charge of technical development.

[@JustAGooseman]

@@professorkatze1123 They dont have this issue with autorotation in this case because of the way the exhausts are mounted, they don't exhaust straight down and rather exhaust straight back regardless of engine orientation which means they can't cause their own rotors to lose efficiency.

[@rancorusia]

@@professorkatze1123 the 280 isnt an osprey, and its been flying for 5 years already, so we'll see but im sure they got most of those kinks sorted out

[@lonewolf49707]

That missle rack dropping down reminded of Airwolf.

[@ridgetop8161]

And that show had better CGI lol.

[@11B_geek_with_gun]

The signature Bell fuselage reminded me of the Bell 222.

[@joelellis7035]

Darn! I just commented that. You beat me by a couple of days.

[@nickoD509]

Same.

[@HumbleDirtMerchant]

That promo was like a pharma ad. "Ask your doctor if Valor is right for you."

[@AngryCops]

If you experience Valor for over 4 hours immediately go to an emergency room

[@The_Ballo]

@@AngryCops Here, at Apple, we decided to include the Army into our ecosystem and our geniuses come up with the iValor, a ground support vehicle for mere mortals that syncs with your iWatch, iPad, and iCloud while being carbon neutral. [iValor crashing intensifies] YOU'RE FLYING IT WRONG!

[@hllboi817]

1 of my close friends died in an osprey accident... they said the taliban hit it with an rpg.. later found out it had a mechanical failure

[@KnawedOne]

So sorry for the loss of your friend. May your heart be filled with light in his honor

[@christophervelez1561]

You forgot the real reason this is getting pushed through though. It’s because some army general is going to work for this company when he retires. Gotta keep that money flowing in troops be damned!

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@docrofo2573]

@@theo328d you spelt crash hawk wrong…😂

[@phtevenmolz5030]

Or because the Blackhawk has shown how severely limited the airframe is over the last two decades of operations in mountainous environments. “High” altitude crippling a utility helicopter is kind of ironic.

[@bradycook4254]

Sikorski’s already said they’re going to appeal to the agreement of the bell v280 which I hope do god works. Cause I’m a drone mechanic 15E UAS maintainer currently but going black hawk maintainer in the reserves. I’ve talk to pilots that’s been around both of these aircraft. The ones I work with say they rather keep the hawk then deal with those POS but if one has to be choosen they rather the defiant x. And from a mechanics point. I grew up around the hawk pictures of me working on it with my dad. My dad is a license A&P mechanic and obviously he quadruple check the work after I was done before signing it off. But back to my point the valor looks like a mechanics nightmare and everyone that has been through a fielding with any military equipment that just got to its first units knows it not like a new car. It’s problem after problem after problem for the first couple years of it’s life. And not to mention the on going bullshit maintenance after that.

[@phtevenmolz5030]

@@bradycook4254 lol you should look up the rate and number of accidents for the UH-60 and the CV-22, as well as the number of fatalities. Spoiler alert: the UH-60 has the highest rate and number of accidents, as well as fatalities, of any airframe currently in use. And they’re a horrible airframe to work on.

[@Akaterial]

The Blackhawk had a lot of crashes when it first entered service. We used to joke that if a microwave oven was pointed at one it would turn into a lawn dart. There were a lot of problems with the horizontal stabilator. There is a story of that same stabilator failing last year that caused a crash in the Sinai killing 7 soldiers. The military is a big force in pushing technology and things often go wrong in the first few years. Then the technology matures and they become mainstays just like the Blackhawk is today.

[@jasonirwin4631]

Holy fucking dog shit finally one person that understands that new technology isn't perfect when first introduced.

[@117rebel]

I still don’t want to read or hear about troops dying because their aircraft failed and crashed.

[@claridge7549]

@@117rebelexactly. New technology shouldn’t be an excuse for people dying for no reason.

[@supremecaffeine2633]

@@claridge7549 It's a pretty good excuse. New technology in most fields have a pretty good track record of being deadly early on. A decent example would be the grenade. It's over 1000 years old, but it took until WW1 before they became relatively safe for use.

[@casematecardinal]

@@claridge7549 and having outdated aircraft shouldn't be an excuse for people dying for no reason either.

[@Guyonnn]

I love how he uses super technical terms to describe these high tech machines like, “super effing bad!!” 😂

[@nickmedlin3475]

The osprey had a rough start but has come a long way since it’s creation. So much so it’s currently one of the safest airframe currently flown by the military in terms of mishaps per 100000 flight hours. The black Hawk had more crashes in the past three years than the osprey has had in its total service life. The valor was built using the knowledge Boeing learned while designing and troubleshooting the first of its kind VTOL medium lift aircraft and improved upon it. That being said like any new airframe, including the Blackhawk, the valor is going to have a bumpy first few years until maintenance trend analysis can be completed and designs improved. Simply put the Blackhawk is outdated and wouldn’t be getting replaced unless it could sufficiently meet the army’s future needs. Not that it’s an inherently bad airframe, it just ain’t cutting it anymore.

[@OriginalAustinOblivion]

The dumb part is, most of the recent mishaps, like the one in Ft.Campbell. Essentially come down to communication issues. In a multi-ship flight, it is commonplace for us to call out maneuvers to other chalks. Letting your buddies fly into your rotor disk. That. Yikes.

[@1truthbegettingtold275]

Because there is only 400 Osprey. If there was more, then it would be more incidents. Its like saying a town with less people has less crime compared to a city. There is less incidents for it to happen with.

[@swiffersweatjet7815]

@@1truthbegettingtold275 Fleet size doesn't matter in this scenario, because on a basis of per 100,000 flight hours the Osprey is twice as safe as the Blackhawk, with the Osprey having a death rate of 3.43 deaths per 100,000 flight hours, and the Blackhawk having a death rate of 6.89 per 100,000 flight hours.

[@SolidKore]

You do realize most of the crashes for the osprey was reported as human error LONG before the marines were like nah, they all break the same way when you do a certain thing. That AND their still in the news about incidents, yet the military refuses to admit it was a poor investment, prob because the amount of money invested in it. Much like the XM8 project that spent millions only to be cancelled 7 years later... Also, that statement (3.27 mishaps per 100,000 flights) is the Marine Corps ONLY, by that logic you're still wrong...the Blackhawk to this day has 1 mishap per 100,000 flights...So the Osprey is STILL 3.25x MORE dangerous than a Blackhawk. And that stat isn't JUST for the marines but Army, Army Reserve and National Guard as well...and out of 326,162 flight hours, that's 3.25 mishaps versus 9..81 mishaps...both stats taken from the last 10 years as of 2022.

[@brianlee6163]

And yet, two MORE Ospreys have crashed, killing 11 service members (and crirucky injuring another five) since you posted your comment.

[@seanlocke5366]

People love the black hawks so ill just sit back laughing at the dumpster fire for that company

[@nightmarezero8465]

@@ElBearsidente actually it isn't. It's one of the best things a marine can call in.

[@mikemcchesney2555]

@@nightmarezero8465 It seems very obvious that Bearsidente has never had need of Close air Support. LOL To this day, there is nothing better at Close Air Support. Also, I was there when we switched from the UH1H to the UH60 Blackhawk). I seem to remember AC's good buddy being nicknamed "CRASHHAWK" for many of its early years.

[@LongWalkerActual]

@El Bearsidente Do tell.

[@LongWalkerActual]

@@nightmarezero8465 I'd rather have an A-10, or obsolete A-1, for support than an F-16 or that new contraption the A.F. is fielding!!!!

[@Azrazel_qwp]

Nope. The A-10 is bad. Maybe it wasnt at one point in time, but now its getting outperformed in every aspect. Their pilots have to aim by eye and are nowadays mainly dropping bombs and missiles, the „tank-killer“ doesn't (and can't!!!) kill any modern tanks and while other aircrafts can serve multiple purposes, the A-10 can't even do one job properly. Today it's just a morale-machine

[@llillian4055]

I do love that the children had time to grow up, become officers, rank up, and finally get deployed before the thing actually flew. All I can say is ... "Iroquois 2.0 time?"

[@m777howitzer4]

Yes.

[@sdivine13]

God I hope

[@PolymurExcel]

I thought the Blackhawk was the 2.0, which would make the Valor the 3.0?

[@LA-ep2nr]

💯. The V-280 Valor will become as ubiquitous as the UH-1 Iroquois.

[@bruceleealmighty]

Wonder if they are Senior CPT's?😛

[@jeffparcel]

The osprey also has such a high downdraft that it was unusable on almost all the FOBs, they totally dust out everything causing a security hazard

[@solarissv777]

That's why 280 doesn't have rotating engine nacelles

[@MrSheckstr]

One of the many reasons why the Osprey will NEVER be Marine One

[@scorchclasstitan6727]

Then why tf do you still use them, they’re obviously an outdated and unusable design like half of our shit, back to the drawing board.

[@matt9897]

Waaah it made me too dirty!

[@AlphanumericCharacters]

I was sitting at a traffic light minding my own. All of a sudden I thought I was in an earthquake or my car was falling apart. I looked at other motorists. Nobody seemed to notice anything. I decided my car must be shitting the bed. Just then I saw two Ospreys flying over. They were HUNDREDS of feet in the air!

[@WhatDayIsItTrumpDay]

Yes, while the Osprey had its growing pains with several crashes and fatalities, the Blackhawk also had its growing pains, and actually had a HIGHER rate of accidental crashes and deaths. But nobody remembers those as the Blackhawk was a traditional helicopter.

[@dchiznit209]

I haven’t seen any movies about an Osprey Crash just yet.

[@jarrodscapin7294]

I was stationed at Camp Lejeune during the V22’s test phase. They were having a lot of issues. The Osprey Program quickly became known as The Lawn Dart Program.

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Fucking hell, Marines call EVERYTHING which flies, lawn darts... I've had more than a few AV-8B mechanics make the same statement about the Harrier. A Viper mechanic said the same thing about the new AH-1Z.

[@TheAnnoyingBoss]

Listen bro I think how one motor can power both props at reduced rate in event of engine failure might help improve survivability.

[@SnifferSock]

If I hear another Camp Lejeune drinking water lawsuit...

[@turinturambar8622]

I guess you didn't drink the water since you'd be totally dead rn apparently.

[@wizardemrys]

tons of well, anything when first implemented don't work right. But as time goes on things get ironed out.

[@STB-jh7od]

In 92, (yeah I'm old) we were calling them "crashhawks" a year before the Battle of Mogadishu. With the engine placement, arming this will have same issue as Osprey-no forward facing weapons, or at least very limited. Notice from the video the rocket pods were lined up with the propellers/rotors.

[@STB-jh7od]

@ECN019 US started looking for replacement for Huey due to short comings discovered during Vietnam, single engine, lack of armor protection for crew. The report also led to creation oh Hind 24, cause it was open to public, Russians sent it home.

[@tararaboomdiay7442]

How many forward firing weapons are there on a Huey, Black Hawk, Chinook, etc? Remember, this is being bought as a troop transport, not a gunship. Gunship versions have been proposed with forward firing weapons a'plenty, but at this point it's premature.

[@STB-jh7od]

@@tararaboomdiay7442 the ad video showed it armed. The huey, Blackhawk, Lynx, etc have multiple hard points for weapons-missiles, rockets, gunpods. Chinook doesn't, but in Vietnam some were made into gunships similar to spooky and specter planes.

[@BluntSouthernBelle]

@@tararaboomdiay7442 Even with its purpose being troop transport, it's still a fair/logical thought for it to have hard placed gun/protection ports. Especially if they're going to be spending all that money already. Fortify it to safely transport troops, evac, provide an escort, whatever it is that's needed and get the country's money's worth. Just my 2 cents.

[@946towguy2]

@@STB-jh7od They UH-1Y is an excellent helicopter with a 4 blade main rotor and twin GE-700 series engines.

[@mike-pl8sn]

We have lost an enormous amount of Blackhawks also look at the early years of the Blackhawk helicopter, and you will see that most people wanted to get rid of it and go back to the Huei. Yes, it’ll take some time to get the bugs worked out and unfortunately people will probably lose their lives while they do that but this is going to be a much tougher air frame that can carry more can fly farther and can fly faster.

[@ColonelClusterFunk]

Huei: Huawei's first helicopter that definitely isn't a Huey despite its almost perfect resemblance

[@ChronicAndIronic]

Exactly. People who refuse to change and adapt will die with their old ways

[@manofaction1807]

That's why we get paid the big bucks... Still don't have to like it. Lets hope they can get the bugs out before we really need to have it ready to go.

[@angelamaro3480]

Midway through: "some of you will die before we work out all the bugs, but that's a sacrifice we are willing to make"

[@Jlnorman42]

"Some of you may die! But thats a sacrifice im willing to make"

[@alexjohnston3948]

tilt rotary aircraft have come a long way since the Osprey, however, the Osprey had roughly the same crash percentage that the UH-60 did initially. The V-280 valor is significantly faster and holds 4-6 more people than a 60 can.

[@floridaemergencypics7261]

My cousin was one of the 19 marines who were killed in the Arizona crash. Ever since that happened we’ve hated the Osprey ever since and just watched as more marines got killed. It was unbelievable and horrifying.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@CombatIneffective]

The Osprey is more susceptible to vortex ring state than other helicopters. They didn't know that at the time of the crash. They changed the flight profile since. The Osprey also flies higher and faster than a blackhawk. The Taliban used to hate the Osprey because they couldn't hear them and after breaking contact from an ambush, would run headlong into marines that were inserted by Ospreys into their path of withdrawal.

[@wtice4632]

@@CombatIneffective where can i read about this?

[@CombatIneffective]

@@wtice4632 here is a decent article on it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_state

[@buschacha]

@@CombatIneffective I’m not saying that’s not true, but we had an Air Force Osprey fly over a building I was in stateside and we genuinely thought there was a friggen train rolling through base

[@thomastassara3752]

Ex-osprey mech now working in the H60. A large problem with the osprey is it’s size. That much weight on a fulcrum causes aircraft to vibe itself to death. The operational tempo also didn’t allow correct maintenance and a huge problem with incompetence of marine corps training of aviation mechanics caused a slew of problems. I think the small frame of the 280 will help but learning to fly it will be completely different from a Blackhawk and will sadly but naturally cause accidents

[@Fitnfat86]

As an osprey flyer and current test and evaluation guy, this is the only comment in this whole thread that is accurate, articulate, and grounded in facts. Now get that shit outta here! You know comment sections are only for irrational regurgitation as first hand gospel!

[@hawkeye7527]

Theoretically, this is being chosen due to the focus on the Pacific. They want a troop transport and weapon support aircraft system that will provide greater range and speed. The Valor provides double the range and increased speed (I don't recall how much faster). So in theory, it meets the requirements of the war that the Pentagon believes we may be fighting next

[@richardjohnson1180]

You are absolutely correct

[@mikej9470]

I didn't consider that, great point! I really thought the Defiant was better but this makes me reconsider.

[@Armoredcompany]

Except that it doesnt. LZs in the Pacfic are typically even smaller than in Europe and the Middle East. This thing can't fit into the LZs that a Hawk can. In a clearing that you could fit 5 hawks, you can fit 2....maaaaaaybe 3 of these things. It honestly closes more tactical doors than it opens.

[@hawkeye7527]

@@Armoredcompany But it's better suited for island hopping. Even if that means using ropes for dismount. Idk for sure, I'm not involved in the decision-making process, but everything I've observed and been told indicates it's not a choice made on a whim.

[@Armoredcompany]

@@hawkeye7527 except very few soldiers, especially regular grunts, get trained in fast-rope operations. Hell, i spent 4 years flying and I never got to train for it as an aircrew member. This means that the training of the combat arms guys will have to drastically change as well. Just because it has a longer range and faster top speed still doesn't somehow make it smaller, and without the rotating wing it will be absolute HELL to stage on Navy ships because of size problems, thereby making it also unsuited for island-hopping over existing platforms. Also fast-roping is cool and all for insertions, but how do you get the wounded and the dead out? Sure the med Blackhawks have the hoist, but its a last resort as it leave the bird a sitting duck for even longer than simply landing and means loading times take 10 times longer than they should or could. Plainly put, this thing just simply isn't designed to take the current roles or the Hawk, it just cant.

[@brianbeach4504]

I gotta stop watching angry cops in the office. I"ve lost count how many times I've tried to not spit my coffee out.

[@nomnomxddd7341]

Army in the past: this state of the art technology is not good enough, we need better Army now: yeah, looks good enough to me

[@Gamerguy826]

It reminds me of the way the Army completely snubbed the 76mm Sherman because the mentality was "Our 75mm Shermans are doing fine, we don't need them" and even rejected the Pershing at the time because the engine and transmission were horrible and needed more time for a rework. The difference between the Army in the 40s and 50s and now is night and day and it comes down to one word... patience. The modern Army has none and we're all suffering for it.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@Gamerguy826]

@Boomstick McNugget For the record the Army almost outright rejected the Pershing. The Panther was known for throwing it's transmission every 200km (I think) and it was so bad Panther crews would often carry spare transmission kits.

[@Wolfshalifi]

The Lowest bidder

[@MrBassmann15]

The Army was always this way. Just look at the jeeps from WW2. The original jeeps were indestructible, but they cost too much money. We got the cheap ones instead.

[@platapus112]

The funniest part about the program is the army was like, can we have a helicopter that goes 250 knots? And then the Marines come in and go, "CAN WE MAKE IT GO EVEN FASTER?" and requested that they would need it to go 330 knots

[@TeIegram...me....realATQ1]

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[@RavenWolffe77]

Faster than an A-10

[@sdoo-ou2ni]

it was the Air Force gets involved it'll the production of Grant will wind up going even faster

[@patrickweaver1105]

The Blackhawk is too slow. With MANPADS being so cheap and effective all helicopters are in danger of becoming obsolete. This thing will still be too slow. Combat losses are going to be catastrophic if something can't be done. I swear they need dropships from science fiction.

[@platapus112]

@@patrickweaver1105 it's a helicopter of course it's slow. This program isnt about survivability under fire, it's so they have something that can be used as a QRF aircraft for long distance operation. They wont get even close to the front with them

[@Gamerguy826]

Army R&D personnel from the 40s would probably cry if they saw the standards of today.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@sirtango1]

Or wonder exactly how that many saboteurs infiltrated the U.S. military and its contractors!

[@meirsimchaesral5095]

@eedd sdsdoh they did

[@auscam6666]

whooah Dat Sir

[@meirsimchaesral5095]

@eedd sdsd there was the m2 carbine/m14 bullshit numerous shit aircraft, and crap anti-tank weapons. The worst offenders seem to have been between wwii and Korea. Nothing like peacetime for dumb ideas to fly under the radar

[@TeufelHunden927]

This excited me as an aviation Marine, because this means we’ll be getting black hawks. Our main helicopters are Huey’s, cobras and tigers😂

[@kathrynr.7065]

King Stallion! Beast!

[@sgtsuperhate9796]

The Corp got their baby upgraded to the nines ....

[@aj3751]

I'm jealous that you guys still use Huey's though. That's one bad bird!

[@whatabouttheearth]

😂 Corps always getting hand me downs. I used to always say the Corps is the ghetto of the military, Army and Navy are middle class, and the Air Force is rich up town.

[@MrJohn7002]

It's funny because it's true! 🤣🤣🤣

[@douglamoureux9416]

The cgi rocket pod looks like it was influenced by the 80's show "airwolf" which the helicopter in the show was a modified Bell 222.

[@christophergreen2892]

My first thought was "Airwolf" as well. And that lower budget show had better weapon effects 35 year ago than that CGI garbage. Now that I think of it, Babylon 5's (dated at the time) CGI was better than this shit they sent to get a contract. I bet someone (or several) is getting a nice job after retirement, like during the M247 Sergeant York fiasco. The lack of flight footage has me expecting a report in under three years that the mini-Osprey can't get rained on. While the mini-Osprey design has me expecting a report in under three years that it crashes in variable wind speeds.

[@solarissv777]

@@christophergreen2892 it has flight footage. It has been flying for much longer then a Sikorsky bid. The question is: why AC didn't include it?

[@christophergreen2892]

@@solarissv777 You're right, the US Military channel has a little flight footage mixed with clips of that garbage CGI. I found a heavily clipped but better video on Bell's youtube channel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn-TkpinmL5pns0

[@shimmyshimmyko-ko-bop594]

I wonder if the Valor's "wings" fold into the fuselage to make the footprint smaller. The B-17 prototype also crashed on a test flight. It went on to become a legend.

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

No, it doesn't. They have plans for one that does if the navy shows interest.

[@tinybatman9502]

I worked with the osprey for years. I just hope the valor can actually hold hellfire missles and have some form of gun(s) on the front. The osprey only allows for a machine gun in the back. It technically could have a belly gun but it was never implemented. So, the osprey is very limited to transport aircraft. If this V280 can actually shoot things and fire missiles, i'll be impressed

[@khahinmetameta7826]

Somehow the army will tack it on

[@user-pq4by2rq9y]

> 20mm vulcan turret on the side > hellfire missiles on the wings > targeting pod > thermal camera You got yourself a vtol mini "Spooky". I know it is easier said than done but I can see troops on the ground loving this thing.

[@Willrocs]

Your description made me moist

[@Ohnoitsthatguy-620]

I love how the army keeps coming up with new and exciting ways to make me not want to join backup.

[@FUnzzies1]

If the Valor is stopping you from reenlisting, we are better off.

[@Ohnoitsthatguy-620]

@Scatoogle Oh, it's just one of many reasons, it's not even top ten. I guess my service to my country is meaningless because I'm wary of a vehicle design based on a machine with a dubious track record. For what it's worth, I hope you never lead troops in combat, because you sound like someone with no reasoning power.

[@StudentEMT]

@@FUnzzies1No the fuck we aint, soldiers have a certain skill that takes atleast 20 weeks of training, 10 for basic, 10 for advanced (sometimes even more), so maybe getting a death machine that is certain to kill soldiers when there is a shortage is not a good idea

[@StarwarsHalofreak]

@@FUnzzies1 The Valor is still very new technology, so with new military technology comes it's setbacks, and quite potentially, casualties. I don't blame folks who got out for not wanting to get back in just to get stuck on a brand new chopper that hasn't gotten past it's teething phase yet.

[@FUnzzies1]

@@StudentEMT sure thing kid

[@Brecconable]

Marines: how do we stop crashing aircraft? Army Warrant Officrs: allow us to introduce ourselves

[@ryankuypers1819]

After we finish our coffee.

[@RogueFox6]

That wasn't a RoboCop module system, that was Airwolf

[@yodu45]

Airwolf was more believable than this cgi ad!

[@mattballman5906]

Thank God someone remembered Airwolf!!

[@11B_geek_with_gun]

Aww dammit! You beat me to the punch!

[@pdav3213]

The *concept* of tiltrotor aircraft is awesome...and the engineering magic worked to get the Osprey from concept to reality is impressive. From my extremely limited knowledge and exposure to Ospreys, it seems that they have issues that we don’t often see specifically with helicopters or airplanes. It's something about the hybridization of those two that presents unique challenges. Even with these advancements, the technology is in its infancy and we are still missing something (I don't know what, I'm not smart enough) to safely bridge the gap between rotary and fixed wing aircraft.

[@mike-pl8sn]

So, if you turn the valor sideways, it is the same length from wing tip to wing tip as a black hawk from tip to tail, and then from tip to tell on the valor is the same distance as the rotors of the Blackhawk so technically it does fit in the same footprint. It just fits in it sideways.

[@cheeseninja1115]

yeah, I think people are underestimating how short it is and how big the Blackhawks rotors were. The valor is a bit wider of a foot print, but with the massive range and speed the fact you'd have a bit less landing options becomes a moot point.

[@gremlin_uwu]

@@cheeseninja1115 I mean, you can fold the blades so......

[@cheeseninja1115]

@@gremlin_uwu can't really fold the blades in mid landing lmao

[@tararaboomdiay7442]

For the competition, the Army specified that a certain number of aircraft with a a specified distance between turning rotors and from surrounding terrain had to operate from an LZ of a specified size. Valor meets that requirement

[@a330flyguy2]

I'm surprised they're not wearing leather bondage dog masks in the video.

[@CombatArmsChannel]

During my time in the Corps, I only crashed in a CH53, so by process of elimination, I'm all for more Ospreys 🤭

[@MNIMWIUTBAS]

Given that the Osprey is the safest rotorcraft operated by the military I'd agree.

[@alexwalker2582]

Osprey does have a lower crash rate than the Blackhawk, Osprey crashes just get noticed more because of the greater number of people that fit on the Osprey (and therefore get killed/injured).

[@cpK054L]

I've flown in several CH53's... never had a problem C5s, C130s, no problem Ospreys... only been in one... I don't know if I like... I don't remember....

[@iplayfoofee3547]

flown in hueys, ch53, and ospreys. by comfort i say opsreys, 53, then huey. but i hate the 53s becuz its always leaking, and somehow im always sitting on that oil stain seat.

[@SuiLagadema]

Those kids were playing "Crash Simulator 3000". I remember a documentary from the History Channel (when it showed actual history) in which they called the program manager because one of the prototypes crashed. When he arrived, they told him that only 2 soldiers were injured, both with mild sprained ankles and the blackhawk suffered minimal damage. If there's a helo in which I would feel safer crashing, it would be a blackhawk. Like you said, not everything is statistics and numbers.

[@TeIegram...me....realATQ1]

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[@jadenwracing8176]

I gotta say, This is my first time watching you and I’m really impressed. A lot of military channels are pretty cringe, they are always trying to please the audience. Your video felt much more natural and genuinely hilarious Great work!

[@DopetheWind]

Sikorsky engineer here. Yeah I dunno man. We tried, really really hard to do our beloved Blackhawks (and all S-70s) justice. The only thing we can think of is the Army really liked the nice 300 knt and better range numbers Bell has.

[@stillcantbesilencedevennow]

We don't blame the engineers homie. We know you guys try like hell, with asinine demands placed on you guys. It's the brass, the CEOs and the investors who pull this dumbass ish.

[@somebodyelse5820]

You have to wonder how effective that range and speed will be. On paper it sounds nice but when are you ever going to use that much range in combat? If your air control has extended so far away from base that you need a completely new helicopter, you should probably reign it in a little bit or build another base.

[@DivusMagus]

@@somebodyelse5820 islands in the indo pacific near Chinese coast is a good example. You won't always have a proper runway for larger cargo planes so this is a good in between. And black hawks simply don't have the range to go from island to island.

[@petehaack5228]

Please don't tell me you had anything to do with the Mike. I loved my 30+ years flying my A's, A+'s and L's, but that damned Mike.....that's where the 60 went off the rails.

[@triggerbot3284]

To be fair, the Blackhawk kinda had double the amount of fatalities within the same 30+ years the Osprey has been in service. So while it's kinda dark to call this "teething issues with new designs", that's kinda what it is.

[@agentbarron3945]

i mean, thats like saying that cars have double the fatalities as motorcycles over a 30 year period... One, everyone and their mother drives, the other, a relatively few amount drive. Sure cars are dangerous, but nowhere near as dangerous as a bike. just looking at the total deaths, im 100% not surprised a Blackhawk has a staggering amount more than an osprey, the blackhawk is the bread and butter for airborne teams, the other, idk, i dont think ive ever heard of it doing more than a few resues (which why not just use a blackhawk for that too?)

[@triggerbot3284]

The example given seems to be disingenuous (at least accidentally) to the point of the above statement. Any new technology will have it's first few years or decades worth of trial and error. In this case, the Osprey being one of the few active craft utilizing tilting rotors means that it will get the bulk of said trial and error and obviously has. On the latter point: The Blackhawk is numerically superior and is usually much more identified due to how many roles it fills. In this instance, any type of situation that an Osprey would be needed... will be shared between it and the Chinook, a similar sized albeit narrower twin rotor heavy lift/medium troop transport helicopter. Given the Blackhawk is multirole, it makes sense as to why you would see it more often. However, despite popularity... you either want something very fast (an MH-6 for instance) or something that can extract everyone at once without the possibility of there not being enough space.

[@adv_skarr5362]

Ok but whats the ratio of use between the two? Id bet the blackhawk had 2-3x as many missions as the osprey

[@triggerbot3284]

The ratio is going to be skewed regardless because even if we only factor in an equivalent amount of service years for the Blackhawk, it would still win because it's a general purpose helicopter and not a heavy lift/medium load tilt rotor aircraft. As stated before, the Osprey basically shares a role with the Chinook (which is nearing the end of it's life cycle, so chances are it will start fulfilling the role a bit more) and as such is not going to have near the amount of flight time. However, if we were to be gracious and say that the Blackhawk has ran 2 to 3 times the missions, it makes sense then that in those first 30+ years of service it had a high fatality rate that exceeded the Osprey's by leaps and bounds.

[@bo0tsy1]

Better than a huey

[@mikemosley535]

The one that lost only had 60 hours of flight time… And a crash…. So… There’s that… The 280 had 260 hours of flight time and zero crashes.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@lip124]

DAMN, that sucks

[@Clinical_760]

as a former 15T, i dont like either platform. the V-280 was a project that started in the early 90’s and it was FLAWED. Took Bell over 30yrs to get one to stay in the air. DefiantX was tossed together so damn fast with so many intricacies that it just wasn’t working. the rear facing turboprop’s clutch plagued the drivetrain. Although, the Alpha model Blackhawk had issues with cannon plugs receiving false inputs and the rear stab nose diving birds into the ground, it was easy to figure out. V280 still crashes after 30yrs of R&D

[@danieljonhson6367]

Ask the mechanics who are going to work on them what they think about them , they'll let you know how good or bad they are.

[@ElGreco15]

I tried. They were all dead from alcohol poison.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@CombatIneffective]

All mechanics hate everything they work on in some form or another.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

@@CombatIneffective not really. I hate things that were designed by an engineer who's never touched a wrench. I dont hate things that need to be serviced, its literally my job, but theres a way to be a good engineer and then theres a way to be an average engineer.

[@CombatIneffective]

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Sometimes its not the engineer that does that but the designer. Engineers have that problem too. They try to get the function to work and forget the form for it. The designers then come in and work on the form and forget the function. A good example is watch old mythbusters and see builds from Jamey Hyneman vs Adam Savage. Adam was an artist and Jamey was an engineer.

[@ronaldholverson257]

I was witness to the clutch slip on the v22 in Iraq in 2009. The damn thing wobbled into the air maybe 60 ft. In front of me. It was horrifying to witness. I thought it was going to come crashing down on top of me.

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[@noname-nq5zn]

They've been trying to figure out how to make that since the fifties stop was in 1957 Popular Mechanics

[@AngryMarine-il6ej]

It should be noted that, in spite of the number fatalities during the development of the Osprey, from 1989 to 2006, a lot of the flaws were corrected and is now considered one of the safest aircraft in the USMC inventory and has since then had a lower mishap rate. Also, it costs on average, $9,000 per flight hour as compared to $20,000 per flight hour for the CH-53.

[@bryanjones14]

So says a airwinger 😂

[@Copenboro]

Here we are a year later- the entire fleet of ospreys was grounded for 3 months cause they crashed and 8 died in Japan. In my marine corps career- we've lost more marines to ospreys falling out of the sky than we have in combat. Don't believe this garbage- POGs are known to be filthy liars

[@jamesocker5235]

Good point

[@jetSCP]

They tried this replacement shit when they made the F35, but logic of how many issues would arise from replacing so many mission specific aircraft overtook stupidity. Not to mention the amount of pilots that were well trained to their aircraft would have to get used to a new, highly sensitive multi-role fighter, that probably has less capability for each mission considering it has other roles to fit in. And yea, this 'new blackhawk osprey' is stupid wide. I can't imagine it having the same capability as the blackhawk.

[@jeffreyphipps5099]

There is a Marine unit that had to change their moniker from Widow Makers to something far less historic when they transitioned to the Osprey. The CGI air frame looks like the old T-37 Tweet from the 50-60s.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@kalamazoo-Fcar]

Which one? The only time I ever heard of widow maker thrown around was towards harriers AKA North Carolina lawn darts.

[@William_Bryant]

7:16 The face made when AC says, “Allow me to explain.” should absolutely be the next Angry Meme Revue homework template.

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[@Shy_Knee_Side_Up]

Supposedly by making the engines stay horizontally fixed and just having only the propellers move up and down they were able to achieve a much higher degree of reliability and lowered maintenance. If you notice that is the major difference in the engine configuration from the Osprey to the Valor.

[@cheeseninja1115]

it also allows for more rough terrain landing and take offs as there is less overall worry about anything getting sucked into or thrown by the turbines

[@Lotvk]

yeah but I'm not buying your plane so stop trying ok

[@TheAnnoyingBoss]

It's definitely an interesting engineering change. It is pretty wide but shoot bro we got bigger tanks to carry I guess

[@mattkennedy6115]

I understand why AC would knock the video demo of the valor it looks like a damned toy commercial But Id like to think that the top brass got a live demonstration or two and the reasons behind their not being any video readily available of the valor in action is that it’s classified

[@johnadams8445]

Oil sumping was an issue but mostly yes cuts down maintenance tremendously. 🤔 it's like engines don't like operating while going vertical to horizontal. But that's 70s and 80s logic.

[@GrantvsMaximvs]

The amount of crashes per flight hour show the Osprey to be a very safe aircraft

[@murphyseanm]

The AH-64 Apache has a different competition for replacement and it looks like the RaiderX is going to win. The V280 Valor is a second generation for its technology and has a ton of flight hours behind it. The Defiant is a lot of new tech that is not proven and will need a lot of work and is more likely to be delayed. Another part of this is Bell H-1 line is closing and they need to keep production open and I think that had some to do with it. Also the V280 has longer range and more speed which will matter for any Pacific war that will require long distances to be traveled. Objectively this was the right choice.

[@casematecardinal]

Exactly this. I've been trying to tell people about the raider. Its going to be badass. Its like a modern Cheyenne

[@michaele1564]

The problem is how long the damn thing will be on approach. Better only land at secured LZs otherwise they are a bullet sponge. Say good bye to air assault or really any lift mission besides ass and trash. If they do put a 30mm on it is it going to extend down 6 ft below the aircraft like Dr gadgets arm to clear the rotors for firing anywhere more than plus or minus 10 degrees of the nose?

[@Pilotmario]

@@michaele1564 You do realize that an opposed landing is likely going to involve Iglas, which would handily put any of the competitors and predecessors out of the sky, right?

[@michaele1564]

@@Pilotmario I am sure this thing will have lircm or atircm for ir sams (or even a kinetic kill system). But with this all they will need is an HMG anywhere within 700m at the speeds it will be at on approach and thos are everywhere. Even more prolific than SAMs.

[@Pilotmario]

@@michaele1564 Helicopters aren't much different in that regard either, and their slower speed makes them even more vulnerable in that regard. It's a lot easier to shoot at moving targets when those targets are moving slower, and helos fly slower than tiltrotors.

[@steveconnolly2693]

remember the Blackhawk crashed into the woods during its fly off with Bell and Sikorsky showed up and put new rotor blades on it a flew it out as is in a few days. thats was one of the many reasons it won

[@TeIegram...me....realATQ1]

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[@TheAnnoyingBoss]

Interesting

[@ozzy7763]

That was at Ft Campbell wasn’t it ?

[@steveconnolly2693]

@@ozzy7763 yes I believe so

[@NicCageForPresident2024]

This is one thing I do not miss about being in the army we always end up having to be the guinea pigs for some failed new project or change to gear, weapons, vehicles etc. Not only that maybe instead of replacing the Blackhawk start out by putting some of these out in service see how they actually work in reality and then transition from there and even then you can still maintain a fleet or so of Blackhawks while using the new magical flying machine

[@scaleworksRC]

Yeah F that noise

[@russetwolf13]

The hilarious part was we used to do that. Guns-a-go-go anyone? Testing out the viability of attack helicopters by strapping guns on chinooks. But procurement has become so politicized, slow and expensive they keep trying to skip the whole testing phase to speed things up. Which results in the F-35 gaining a reputation as a bloated white elephant because we started building the damn things before most of the tech was finished. Instead of doing what the old army might, hooking all that fancy cockpit HMD shit and networking into some testing mules. Get the party piece working, maybe throw it into some F-15s for combat testing before you build a plane around it. It's not like there was a rush, Russia ain't got a single squadron of SU-57s built and we know for sure it's a paper tiger.

[@davidgoodnow269]

@@russetwolf13 F-35 was never supposed to be anything but a test-bed for technology development, that's why its technologies were not, "fully baked." I remember coming across a pair of them in 1992! It's a disastrous piece of crap, because it was never intended for production! When *every plane* is a prototype, things are *always* going to be reliably faulty and horrifyingly expensive!

[@gprz1]

What’s the deal with everything being done by 2030? Some sort of magical date?

[@FUnzzies1]

@@davidgoodnow269 every word of that was a lie

[@TheJanabeke]

I appreciate these types of videos so much. I"m not military, but was married to the Army for 7 years. I am 41. I totes remember 8008s on calulators lmao This video had me laughing until I had tears in my eyes and that is a thing that SHOULD NOT EXIST WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAFETY OF OUR TROOPS!!!!!! HOOOOAH

[@jameslopez5652]

Gotta help ya out =). It is actually HUA. Heard Understood Acknowledge =P. Just poking some fun at ya. Navy version, Hooyah! Chief Electronics Technicians Submarines (SS/IDW) Retired.

[@Toadnabber]

WOW! the sound proofing in the Valor must be awesome. When he give the briefing I could actually hear him.

[@keel3r433]

Yes, add more points of possible failure with the machinery! That's smart, especially when it's flying you through the air!

[@casematecardinal]

Youre right, like a very easy to hit tail rotor that causes you to lose all control and crash... oh wait thats the Blackhawk

[@keel3r433]

@@casematecardinal You would rather have 2 rotors sticking out?

[@casematecardinal]

@@keel3r433 harder to hit, not to mention, it can br more heavily built and armored.

[@keel3r433]

@@casematecardinal So a rotor sticking out to you is harder to hit, yet you said the tail rotor sticking out is to easy to hit? You're contradicting yourself bud. If it's more heavily armored, that would also mean it's going to weigh more, meaning less cargo capacity/speed/maneuverability.

[@calebposey3196]

Pretty sure the this is only supposed to replace Blackhawks. The FARA project to replace some Apaches is a separate but related program, with Bell offering the 360 Invictus, a pretty conventional light attack/recon helicopter.

[@SuperRandomNinja1]

I commented that and then scrolled down and saw your comment and now I feel stupid XD

[@jugg1266]

What is the Raider X supposed to replace if the 360 is for Apache?

[@calebposey3196]

@@jugg1266 as far as I know, there are 2 acquisitions programs. FARA is for a new attack recon helo to SUPPLEMENT, not replace, the Apache. Raider X and 360 Invictus are currently competing in this program. A separate program to replace Blackhawks is was just completed, with the Defiant X being beaten by the 280 Valor. (The names and designs looking similar, at least from Sikorsky, and the fact they are both helicopter programs running at the same time seems to have confused a lot of people)

[@SuperRandomNinja1]

@@jugg1266 They are both competing to replace the Apache and Kiowa it's not one is replacing the Apache and Kiowa while the other is doing something else. Before the military can adopt any piece of technology they have to hold fair trials of a multitude of competitors. That way somebody can't just buy from their friends. Also the competitors can challenge the selection if they believe it wasn't fair in which case the entire thing will be reviewed and if it looks like there was favoritism for any reason it will be thrown out.

[@SuperRandomNinja1]

@@calebposey3196 From what I've seen the intention is for FARA to eventually replace the Apache and the Kiowa. Consolidating 2 air frames and one that are much faster with a longer range. To simplify logistics and keep costs down. And hopefully also a lower radar cross-section although that's more of a bonus goal since there's only so much you can do with a helicopter. It seems especially with what we're seeing in Ukraine the Apache maybe coming to its end in its ability to rule the sky with man pads stronger and better air defenses and everything becoming more prevalent. The ability of an Apache to get in close from flying low and wiping out everything in sight seems to be at an end. And the Kiowa being able to do reconnocence is just a sitting duck. So this new helicopter seems to be aimed at taking attack and reconnaissant helicopters in a different direction then the contemporary method. To continue to be effective in this new battle space. Or at the very least to simplify logistics consolidating air frames.

[@handyearly3653]

Is it Electric? “You would know he is a Russian Spy”…..😂😂😂😂 Thank GOD I am finally retiring.

[@TheMilitantHorse]

Saw the demo for this at the Maneuver Warfare Conference, and I was quite intrigued. I knew well about the Osprey and I heard many Captains and Field Grades asking about this vehicle. It was great. I'd love to see his reaction to the Abrams X by General Dynamics. They basically put 3 crewmen into the front hull behind a PC setup with an autoloader in the turret.

[@GRIZZLYSGEAR]

Sounds like Steve Martin in Sgt. Bilko...

[@caboosemacs]

They copied the Armata?

[@haph2087]

​@@caboosemacs If simply using an autoloader and a lot of computers counts as copying the Armata... Sure. But you could just as well say that they were copying any of the other european tanks (by using an autoloader), and slapping computers in to make it "modern" (I have literally no idea whether the utility justifies the costs, and won't claim to, but fancy computer stuff does look pretty cool.)

[@user-ri4kl2kv9d]

When I was in the military in my AIT I talked to a few people who were door gunners And they always used to talk about the new A1 Cobra gun ship . It's and it's unique profile It's forward looking appearance was so thin that the enemy would have to aim to try to hit this thin small object as it was approaching at a high rate of speed a 190 mh.

[@LANCEtheBOIL]

cobras were the coolest copter ever

[@jameslopez5652]

@@LANCEtheBOIL I would go with the Comanche, though it never entered service. Was a fucking cool copter. But, the Cobras are badass in their own right. Love the AH-64Ds as well. I mean a helo you can fire at targets behind a hill/cover is OP AF.

[@m1a2abrams50]

The Different Branches' Views on the Osprey- The Airforce: yeah so this turbine has this weird glitch so we're going to stop using it for a while The Marines: It's a feature, embrace the suck

[@ar3317]

That was the AFSOC CC's attempt to add ammo to the argument for ending the program

[@chris82z1]

A lot of military aircraft killed a lot of people before the Osprey. The Valor does indeed nearly fit into the footprint of the Blackhawk. Compound helicopters are very cool, but they will not ever compete with a fixed wing tilt rotor. The Valor is going to be good. Just like the F35's will finally be adequate once they all upgrade to adaptive cycle engines.

[@JoseRodriguez-dw9dv]

It gets replaced by someone identifying as an attack helicopter instead lol

[@koffeekage]

Really excited, i cant wait to see how the marines adapt and overcome trying to keep this thing in the air with half of the required maintenance budget.

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

*army.

[@koffeekage]

@@ironstarofmordian7098 are the marines not going to adopt this thing?

[@Scriptedviolince]

@@koffeekage They have their own special tiltrotor all for themselves and nobody else.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

I'm waiting for the cyborgs of Public Security Section 9 to be deployed by a couple of those babies!

[@JainZar1]

@@koffeekage They are going to adopt the Valor airframes that age out of Army service.

[@TheDave159]

Done a lot of work with suppliers and I can say with 100% confidence that Bell could have supplied a piece of toast and won that contract. Some politicians and generals are getting very rich over this, which then needs replacing making them even richer. Same deal with the Abrams replacement scam and the Afghan withdrawal "screwup"

[@ItsJustEliHere]

I used to go to the air show as a kid in my local marine base. I have a vivid memory of a marine telling my 9 year old self to never get in an osprey if I wanted to live, after I told him how cool it looked.

[@cochacopen]

It'll be hilarious when some officer involved with the program grabs Angry Cops and makes him one of the first soldiers to actually fly in one of these things.

[@tylerbradfield9981]

Lived near DC and I'd see stuff fly over. I could always tell when an osprey was overhead because they were so much louder than helicopters

[@Scriptedviolince]

I mostly rely on the high pitched whine from the turboprop.

[@ronjones-6977]

That's just the screams of all the Marines inside falling to their death.

[@casematecardinal]

They're much quiter while cruising.

[@akacurmurdar1]

These are going to be waaaay too expensive to use like a Blackhawk.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@chippewaguy4193]

So that’s why they let the “merchant of death” free. They need a guy on the ground to sell all these left over blackhawks.

[@kingtiger435]

I personally really like the SB-1, I am however concerned about its reliability, it's pretty advanced and a lot can go wrong, especially compared to the black hawk

[@wilfdarr]

I'm right with you: a VTOL aircraft with that kind of speed definitely has a place, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it!

[@kingtiger435]

The 'valor' however is a complete different story, that thing gives me so many red flags, I especially don't like that it's replacing both the apache and black hawk, as Hy said you can't expect everything to be multi-purpose (and do it well) and frankly I'd be surprised if the 'valor' will be able to do even one of its purposes well.

[@PBMS123]

@@kingtiger435 I imagine that like other platforms there will be a number of different variants to fulfil different roles. So rather than being an Apache and a black hawk all-in-one all the time there will be a VUH280 and a VAH280

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@ragingassassin6659]

@@kingtiger435 the thing that gives me the biggest red flag is the way the engines transition to vtol. It not only looks complicated and unreliable but also looks so fragile for the kind of platform it's planned to be.

[@thomasbessis2809]

The apaches are actually being replaced by another programm called FARA. Sikorsky's entry to that programm, the raider-x, is visually very similar to boein-sikorsky's defiant

[@thegreatdogzilla5855]

The apache is not being replaced. The new fara is a "scout" helicopter. I think the old one is called kiowa.

[@Mortlupo]

@@thegreatdogzilla5855 It's basically RAH-66 Comanche - part 2.

[@rrenkrieg7988]

@@Mortlupo why not just dust off the old comanche project and integrate the new tech on that, RnD has already been put down on that why not just continue it?

[@Mortlupo]

@@rrenkrieg7988 Because the Comanche is a two-man scout, not a utility chopper for starters and secondly built on thirty-year-old tech.

[@rrenkrieg7988]

@@Mortlupo i meant use the existing project comanche for the FARA scout requirement, you misunderstand

[@joemartin8651]

That missile drop reminded me of AirWolf from the 80’s

[@ElGreco15]

Does it play like Top Gun on the POWER GLOVE?

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@tarektechmarine8209]

It had lasers, and actually flew.

[@namelessdrifter651]

Stop talking about it an be about it! Greatest statement ever!

[@nathansmith5333]

"Sir, the enemy has stolen Valor." "Damnit chief I don't care if they wear the wrong medals or something" "no sir, they stole that billion dollar aircraft, Valor"

[@kyfiss9176]

As a Blackhawk mechanic and having deployed with the bird I can honestly say the valor is probably going to be an expensive mistake. The army is focused on finding a new high tech platform to transition to which works in fixed wing applications such as cargo planes and jets but is completely unrealistic for helicopters. When you are constantly taking rounds to the airframe or landing in dust sand gravel or other um paved surfaces and doing missions such as hot infil/exfil a durable airframe is by far the most important thing. And in terms of the inevitable maintenance in a combat zone the more simple the airframe is the better. I think this new aircraft with perform great in testing and probably do well during conus operations but will prove to be to unreliable and or to difficult to maintain in a combat zone not to mention how the increased size will and I’m sure harder maneuverability will limit its mission capabilities. Overall cool aircraft I just don’t believe it’s the replacement we are looking for or need.

[@theo328d]

🔴say black hawk 10 times really fast🔴

[@lancerd4934]

I believe part of the rationale of tiltrotor aircraft is that the increased ferry range means you don't need to fly the things out of austere improvised airfields close to the combat environment.

[@CombatIneffective]

You are spouting off the same worries the press had for the Apache during Desert Storm. The sand and heat would be too much for the airframe, etc. Not only did it perform quite effectively, it was crucial to opening the air war.

[@charlessalmond7076]

@@CombatIneffective some systems work out and some don't.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

@@CombatIneffective nah, I think it's safe to say that the apache flew and was capable of what was advertised, no sign of that yet from this thing. Instead we get a 2003 video game ad for your generals.

[@Fixingeverthingwithaengine567]

The v22 had problems with the switch between the 2 rotors. It was on the military news a few weeks ago.

[@leemalco8715]

My old boss was a firefighter in Maryland, very close to Pax River and they were always out trying to do SAR when the V-22s went in the water. They got shooed away by the Navy, but yeah, that happened, and it happened a lot. That thing is such a death trap it makes the H-53 look perfectly safe by comparison.

[@2FlyCaptain]

The issues with the Osprey are way overblown by media hype. Since the 80s when it first flew, there have been only 13 crashes that result in hull loss for the Osprey. The Blackhawk itself has had way more crashes and fatalities in the first years of its service life as well. The accident rate for something like the AV8B is more than triple that of the Osprey per flight hour. That being said, just because something is a tiltrotor doesn't mean it's not very different. Also as you design more and more of something it gets better. Pretty sure the Wright flyer wouldn't meet today's safety standards.

[@drok6692]

The scene with the missile pod coming out of the bay doors gave me serious “Airwolf” vibes, remember that show about the helicopter in the 1980’s? The Air Force should just build Airwolf - problem solved.

[@quan4271]

Are we forgetting that the Chinook is the actual workhorse of Army Aviation and does all this and more on an airframe from the 60s?

[@MNIMWIUTBAS]

The chinook can fly 2400 mi at 320 mph?

[@AP-rt4br]

​@@MNIMWIUTBAS who is going to fly a mission that long without a toilet?

[@quan4271]

@@MNIMWIUTBAS haha you got me there, fair point, buuut can this machine? I mean we haven't even seen it do....anything.

[@christianboswell6681]

The Army doesn’t even have a replacement for the Chinook in the pipeline yet… or at least not one that’s been made public. The 47 is probably gonna be the B-52 of helicopters, with a 100 year life span.

[@benjohnson575]

@@AP-rt4br it's got a ramp you can lower...

[@NevadaGamingWedge]

I can see it now. Army takes one look at the new chopper, shrugs it off and just uses the Chinook for everything.

[@TeIegram...me....realATQ1]

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