Another Bug - F-keys Apply Bonuses Without Activation

[@Flamuu]

Obviously I highly advise against using this, if they can track you abusing this you will probably get penalized somehow. Hopefully there wont be false positives? Baffling coding decisions tbh. Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/

[@Tudestube]

If they are gonna put any efford on trying to track you using a "feature/exploit" resulting from a negligent coding instead of fixing that negligent coding, they can go and F themselves with an ablazing iron fist in the hole of their choice.

[@joca1378]

I often turn on burst fire before the last salvo or salvos reach the target, to use it on my next salvos. I also turn it off when the conditions change, like my target getting undetected or angling too much. I'm not cheating but now, especially with Edgar, i must wait till 3 or 4 salvos reach their target before i can select burst fire, otherwise it will look like i'm cheating. So what happens is that I'll have to wait say 15 seconds or more till i fire again without "cheating", which is a big nerf.

[@Hulivilivoo]

Console has a p2w commander that gives extra damage when fighter plane is active. So you shoot with battleship, look hows the dispersion, looks goood pop fighter and vóla +20% shell dmg mid air.

[@volknetai.3690]

I'm very surprised that it wasn't even update the new plane thing yet and still some bug happened

[@nooblangpoo]

There will be false positives and accidentals. Imagine shooting then pressing the F key to ready your burst.

[@MrX-un8cz]

I wonder how many Edgar player got flat broadside, use the funny button and immediately turn it off just to watch all their shell shattered, they blamed the bullshit spaghetti RNG and then they got dev struck I guess it is funny button, because something funny will definitely happen

[@Frankon81]

was one of them ^^;

[@jkausti6737]

Better question; has any game tester done that and concluded that the ship needs buffs?

[@kuhluhOG]

@@jkausti6737 I don't actually blame the testers here, because that's just a natural response to it

[@forge16hanadamaintenancedr43]

I think that’s a major reason why my Edgar felt so much worse than a mino. I always turned off the F key as soon as my guns stop shooting, so I’m just driving a mino with one extra turret but no short fuse, which is just a sidegrade if not worse. I ended up selling it because I never play it and I probably deserve a refund on the credits lost.

[@wesleygrevink8104]

This has happen so many times to me… a quick burst before getting behind a island or that last puff of smoke

[@gallusace6514]

I'm more surprised its taken the community this long to realise this bug... considering how long this funny button feature has been in the game.

[@sukositb]

Probably because the game is choke full of RNG. They would probably blame bad luck. And inconsistency is nothing new in WoWs.

[@hagostaeldmann]

A lot of bugs are just super hard to detect and are usually detected by accident for example the super firing turret bug was discovered by myself in a clan made purely by accident while testing something completely unrelated in a custom game

[@flashback0994]

I wonder also. Surely WG will make a post in the next hours or days about this bug and they will try something to fix it but everytime they tell us about such a bug after they have seen flamus video? Because it looks like they did not know anything about such bugs and than they see a video about it and post something.

[@Goldleader469]

worst part it, the chinese found it

[@aleksei5172]

Maybe majority of players doesn't play superships as often as they play t8-10. That can explain why the bug wasn't noticed earlier.

[@perfectpotato_eu4129]

World of Hogwarts

[@Halbostfriese]

The reason nobody noticed it for so long is simply because there's so many known aiming and gunnery bugs in this game that WG refuses to fix for YEARS that it is becoming increasingly hard to even distinguish them from one another.

[@berengarius8762]

​@@benjiro8793RNG of bugs

[@connycontainer9459]

@@benjiro8793 You watched the video ? That's not RNG mate.

[@Oliver_JW]

You don't understand what a joke is do you?

[@connycontainer9459]

@@Oliver_JW My bad.

[@nekostix2760]

Wargamings solution: Remove training room so people have a harder time to find bugs

[@ryanbrochu3336]

Shhh..........!!! don't give them any MORE stupid ideas!!

[@kaspervestergaard2383]

Russian way of fixing things.

[@bohba13]

As someone who's done coding. I felt this. I would do this and then test it and wonder why this was happening. Classic logic error.

[@joca1378]

@@benjiro8793 Look, I'm suspicious the error happens because of a much simpler "coder wanna be" tactic. Maybe they aren't even doing any query to the database. I think they may be using something like: "IF burst icon=1 THEN pen add 10" or something along those lines... :D

[@bigB2oh]

Not surprised. Legends is exactly the same way. Arthas one of the P2W commanders you deal additional damage while fighter is active. You activate the fighter when the shells land rather when you shoot. This helps with letting you fire more salvos per plane that are affected.

[@shanehebert396]

Not surprising... If I were to guess, the shells probably just have a reference back to the gun (or where ever the shell statistics are held... the stat block) it was fired from and when a collision occurs (shell hits something) it looks up the stats (through the reference) to do the various calculations. When shells couldn't change during the game, that made sense. So the burst mode changes the stats of the shells, it would modify that stat block which means any shells in flight would get the new stats when they land and did the lookup. If that's the case, then probably what they would need to do would be include all the stats for the shell in every shell, which is copied there when the shell is fired, then it can look up the stats-as-when-fired when they hit. Or they could keep the reference idea and just have another stat block (so one for HE, one for AP, one for alternate firing mode HE) and the shells, when fired, just reference the appropriate stat block. Anyway, there are a number of reasons why something like this could happen and a number of ways to fix it, I guess.

[@Nutty31313]

Increasing the amount of data in each shell could potentially increase the network load, especially when there could be hundreds of them in the air at the same time in a given battle. Given how shitty WG's servers are already, that may be an issue.

[@MoonnyMoo]

@@Nutty31313 No need to add such parameter to a net-code, client has nothing to do with it. And even if it was needed, that is a very small portion of data (boolean "funnyShell" or quantized integer).

[@steffenrumpel2784]

> would need to ... include all the stats for the shell in every shell > Pretty much the reason why they won't change it. After all, why include the additional information if that information is not used when no collision happens. So I wouldn't classify it as "a bug", rather as "a compromise with visible side effects".

[@bigpoppa1234]

Why wouldn't the magic funny button apply to shells already on the way. It's a magic funny button that has no bearing on reality, so why not, a Master Gunnery Wizard does his Tier 5 magic trick and automatically blesses any shells the ship owns, and automatically deblessed when his magic spell is off.

[@Whistler09]

How to Make the Best Spaghetti You’ll start by making the easy meat sauce. Brown your meat in a bit of oil, and then stir in onions until they soften. Then add lots of flavor with garlic, tomato paste, oregano, and red pepper flakes. To finish the sauce, add a bit of water (or broth) and crushed tomatoes. Our easy sauce simmers for about 25 minutes, so about 15 minutes before it is ready, you can cook your spaghetti. For the best spaghetti, cook it in salted water. Pasta water should taste salty. I add a lot of salt to our pasta water (it makes the pasta taste delicious). I add about one tablespoon of salt for every four quarts (16 cups) of water, which is perfect for cooking one pound of pasta. If you still have it, check your package instructions. If you’ve tossed the package already, spaghetti takes 8 to 12 minutes. We recommend setting a timer for 8 minutes and then checking your spaghetti to see if it needs longer. KEEEEWK

[@dewannee]

Oh wait, yo Ed! Let's sail right now!

[@xmlthegreat]

This is going to be a real mess to fix. It looks like F-key sets a momentary flag for the player's attributes, so e.g. when you fire, the fire function on the server checks for the Funny button flag and if it's enabled it does the 3 salvo burst with whatever dispersion and sets the reload timer to 21s. (In case of Edgar) Similarly the server checks the damage rolls only after the shells send an event saying "we've collided with the enemy ship". Each shell gets calculated individually, and before calculating, the server checks again for the funny button flag to decide what attributes the shells would have. The problem is that to fix this you would need the fire function to start tagging each shell with extra attribute, maybe a boolean wasFiredDuringFunnyButton. Even if their boolean datatype is just 1 bit (doubt it) that means increasing the data size of each shell by 1 bit, and considering hundreds of shells can be in the air at a given moment, LMAO

[@tomhollins5303]

Just make new shell types to fire when funny button is on.

[@tomhollins5303]

Its because they are changing the properties of the existing shell type on the fly. To fix it just create a second set of shell types, eg HE and funny button HE. If HE selected and funny button off fire HE. If HE selected and funny button on fire funny button HE.

[@ethanmonat]

Damage is calculated at time of impact, not at time of firing. With the addition of the funny button, damage is variable and depends on the it being active or not. Fairly easy bug to introduce, more than likely. Also has been in the game for way longer than the introduction of Edgar, anything which modifies damage is being calculated at impact time rather than firing time.

[@zedburg]

I love how it works both ways, no wonder some of my funny button bursts have been shite, I have the habit of bursting then turning to normal shells because I have no intention to keep using it. Hooray.

[@Laur352]

who needs a QA employee? Not WG, that's for sure lol

[@aragathor]

WG's QA employees are busy pissing people off on the WoWS discord.

[@annex3762]

e-Sports ready game? more like F-Sports ready game, where F is for FAIL

[@mbt808]

In terms of how they’d catch you: key logging. Since you are playing the game on a server, your inputs are being sent to said server. So WG could be tracking how much the F key is being pressed and the following inputs. If the f key is consistently being pressed after firing and it’s on a ship like conde, then you have someone abusing it. Also, it would be visible in the UI during replays of those are being stored and monitored. Also other players would be potentially see it in PvP and could report via support tickets. They are reportedly aware of the issue already.

[@NicktheMedic]

This is why WG didn't want us to call superships 'tier 11'.. because they are actually like tier 13-14.

[@antraxxslingshots]

Imagine the poor gunner, getting the order, jumping out of his turret...in his rocketchair, trying to catch the grenade to apply the bonus...

[@Con9359]

Im quite certain its connected to the new shell icon of the alt. firing mode, previously (iirc) it wouldnt update shell characteristics when hovering over the shell icon, which it does now. The new shell icons for F-Key only appear, when alt. firing mode is active, therefore its likely that its somehow tied to the bonus for the shells. I guess WG thought it wouldnt cause any issues (which it doesnt for dispersion bonus) but forgot Conde and Edgar giving additional bonus when using alt. firing mode.

[@madmerlot841]

It must be the same key they use for the gacha loot crates if you don't spend enough real money.

[@100krakens2]

Remember the bug where you could have increased AP pen if you would move the aiming point from a close distance (like 5 km away from your ship) onto your target very fast? WG devs "fixed" that bug by REMOVING VERTICAL MOUSE SENSITIVITY setting from the game options so that players would not be able to easily exploit that bug almost every time they shoot. I would expect the same level of bugfixing quality for this bug too. PS this one reminds me about the alarm clock aiming cheat from AT days.

[@xyz6106]

Things have never been the same since they touched the camera once.

[@ryanbrochu3336]

Things have never been the same since they launched the game. There has been a number of game breaking bugs even before the camera change, like citadeling ships with angled smokestacks by hitting the smokestack or the curving torps due to turning your ship.

[@DaylightFan4449]

like Flamu said, i dont think anything other than getting rid of the F key can fix that, WG's code is just so spaghetti

[@ThatOneDude7]

This isn't even spaghetti coding, it's hilariously lazy coding. They really just did a simple "If, Then" function. You learn how to do that in Excel/Sheets at like 10 years old ... that's tough

[@marcuswaterson]

Not the first time I've seen something like this, I remember Borderlands 2 had a pistol whose gimmick was that it had low damage but had like 800% crit damage, so you would shoot a rocket or two then swap to that pistol and deal a shitton of damage. 6:30 "Snapshotting" is one way of fixing it, which is basically when the game makes a copy (or "snapshot") of what your stats are at the moment of shooting, and then refer to those stats when the shells land. This would prevent this not-really-a-bug completely but tbh, they'll probably end up making each Edgar turret snapshot separately and end up with redundant data AKA bloat. Maybe make a 'pre-made' snapshot like what someone else mentioned? Idfk.

[@lunsmann]

Numancia (that T8 Spanish premium cruiser) has a funny button with improved damage on it's AP shells. I tried it out today in operations (who cares - they're bots), but because the guns on that boat are so inconsistent, I doubt I gained much of an advantage. Shatters and bounces still happen like normal.

[@BestShifty]

This reminds me of those dented pictures of russian preachers blessing weapons ... +2 holy damage

[@unknownpersononline]

Kiitos Flamu. I enjoyed your vids when you were a salty CC and I was a paying customer to Wargambling. I enjoy them even more now that you're basically animal testing and having fun and I'm NOT even a customer to Wargambling. People talk about many gaming companies as if they're Evil Assholes, but Wargambling is absolutely up there in the top tier of moneygrubbing, lazy coding, lootbox gambling crap that are the worst of gaming today.

[@mihaitha]

It basically checks if burst fire is active when the impact is calculated, they didn't code the shell characteristics to the actual shell.

[@sambalzone94]

Istg the game has so many bugs. One of the oldest being HE dealing overpen damage from time to time. That has been there for the longest time but rare enough for WG to just ignore it even existed. Another being the ballistics just broke when you are shooting a land target over an island (in operations). Shells will just go for the island instead of the target.

[@dlm9709]

I did this all the time with the Spanish cruisers, swapping between the best type of shot for the scenario... So doing that with ships that get buffs to the shells is absolutely possible to do on accident

[@howoad]

im so glad i quit this game a while back

[@dereban5654]

Imagine if the Spanish cruisers kept the penetration buff they had in testing. Maybe it's a leap in logic, but perhaps they were aware of this bug as far back as then and removed the penetration buff so that there wasn't a more obvious example of the bug. If people were randomly citadelling Yamatos in Castillas by messing around with the F key, a lot of people would have heard about this already.

[@Hahlen]

This might actually bring me back to the game

[@ShiningDarknes]

They would have to make it like a consumable where you hit the button then you can't turn it back off manually until it gets used. Prematurely turning it off and nerfing yourself is fine in their eyes if this would cause you to not be able to toggle mid-flight with no repercussions. Yes, you would still be able to toggle mid-flight but then the thing stays active until you fire again. It isn't a perfect solution since you could just fire one turret and probably get around it but I honestly don't see any other way other than removing the button and completely reworking it.

[@Chrinik]

Imagine if this skill had an effect on dispersion, and the shells suddenly magically course correct in mid-air.

[@tsuaririndoku]

The funny thing is that. WG can’t ban players using this bug either. Because people can accidentally deactivate mid flight as well. Means. WeeGee can’t tell who is abusing the bug or not. Plus, this is considered game breaking bug that people will exploit it. Which by default. The only Fix WeeGee have to do is remove Ships with funny button. Straight up nerfing the Superships.

[@davidblackman1586]

let's go tier 11 in KOTS!!!

[@mindwis3]

just when i got used to turning off burst right after firing... so that is why volleys were sometimes so disappointing... jeeeeez.

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

Hmm... I don't know how hard it would be to just apply the modifiers to the shells as they're fired, but in theory changing the F key to a different shell type with different reload characteristics (as opposed to HE, AP, SAP, etc.) might also be a possible fix - if a spaghetti one.

[@timonbergmann4602]

I think if they add some kind of timer to the f key, they can fix it. After you shot your guns, you can't use the f key equal to the duration of the travel time of the shells. It's a lazy fix, but it's a fix

[@clefsan]

The F-key bug I had experienced before was that you could not trigger the F-key in panamerican cruisers while torps were your selected weapon. But that is only an occasional annoyance, whereas this bug here is so nuts that you could keep a forest full of squirrels fed throughout winter with it. 🤣🤣🤣

[@graysongreydeathcarlyle]

More people need to see this, god damn.

[@1111110010010]

so today is not a good day to play tier 9-11

[@-tr0n]

The coding is fine, simple is better. This is super simple, button push = more pen + more damage. But it needs a timer tied to shell flight time/reload, obviously. Or turned into a latching button that once pressed it doesn't reset until the burst is fired. Also I'm convinced that WG bends your shells in the air, wouldn't be surprised if the accuracy works once fired.

[@marvincasteel4876]

WG + Quality Control = Zero +Zero!!!

[@KaguyasBeat]

You thought this man went insane talking about magic being in this game now. He was telling the truth. Here's the proof.

[@yourfavoritelawnguy2722]

The same company selling you pixels for $120 a piece. And people pay it.

[@Electrikall]

Simply simply lovely... Seems like their code logic probably has one if statement that checks if you press the button, like its either true or false. This is dumb.

[@JB-ys5bf]

Their temporary solution is going to be locking out the funny button until the shell lands with whatever bonus is applied (standard or boosted) for ships that have these types of funny buttons. I also want to know what it will do on victoria because it's AP shells change drastically with its funny button

[@bobcat2960]

So the solution WG may try to use/workaround is add a time delay to that F key Burst mode activation, ie: a 10, 15 to 30 second countdown delay to the key's activation. Maybe?

[@oskillaFTJ]

13:43 guilty as charged here

[@kaalen24]

This in addition to the multiple aiming bugs still not addressed. But they want to charge you $150 bucks for a ship every time you turn around.

[@matthewcasady6276]

I don't know how they would know for sure someone is purposely exploiting this unless it's done almost every shot. It is very common on shoot and then immediately hit the f key so that way you are ready as soon as your next shot comes up. You don't want to have to think about hitting f while you're aming your next shot if you don't have to.

[@wangoif7301]

The accidentally nerfing yourself thing is so tragic.

[@SallinKari]

I'm not an experienced programmer but it really shouldn't be difficult to fix it. Rather then a global flag that applies to all shells, simply have one that applies to the shells fired while the funny button is active, that way when it gets to the calculation, it checks the shell flag not the whether the funny button is currently active.

[@shengweikang4935]

I think it's applying the accuracy bonus as well, the Conde part the first shot was only 8 hits, then its 11+ every shot after

[@ryanbrochu3336]

Most likely not. Dispersion is calculated the moment you fire your guns.

[@shengweikang4935]

@ryanbrochu3336 I understand that's what it is supposed to do, that's why I think it's starting to apply it from the second shot

[@honoredstone9535]

At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if it was possible to fire a HE salvo and swap it to AP mid-air and the other way around. This wouldn't be the "expert loader skill", but the "braindamaged loader skill". 🎉

[@patrickgulotta5620]

The hole Aimbug is around since about two weeks, again! BB shells with sure aiming, go ridiculously not to target...

[@LimonenZitrone]

And since WG keeps adding other ships with F modes (like numancia a while back and probably others as well), this isn't even a problem only for superships. I wonder what, if anything, they will do about this 😅

[@HJW018]

E-Sports ready game btw. Ready for the Olympics according to WG. (probably)

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

Looks to me like they simply forgot to check if there are any shells going downrange and if so, not to apply the buff. Should be simple to fix, but it is a ridiculous oversight.

[@DixxyV]

It's really weird to code it like this. They can treat shells regarding the angle of shot impacts and calculate whether it's a ricochet or not individually, but not the damage and pen value?

[@drmiyu6964]

Can you test the other F key because I remember the railgun bug a few months ago

[@SamGib]

I think this is a deliberate design for anti-cheat. The data structure for the projectile is deliberately missing the damage value. This way cheaters can't modify the damage value to create a super projectile that can do 10,000 damage, but rather let the server do the calculation. When the shell hit, it just query which ship fire it and whatever status and damage buff it got and gives the max damage number, run through the armor penetration calculation, and output the final damage number. Of course, there is a way to let the server validating the damage value coming from client before doing the actual damage, but rather going this route, they decided just let the server do the calculation from the get-go is simpler. Disclaimer: Not a game dev but have some programming background.

[@drcruelty]

My bet is their FIX will be to create a long delay in activating or deactivating the F key. Ignoring that this will severely reduce it's effectiveness for targets of opportunity.

[@rechtsguy4005]

War Gaming and Gaijin really do have something in common...

[@sarinhighwind]

that opening dispersion. hahaha

[@ComeonmenID10T]

hmmm try if it works with the secondary's as well, let the secondary shoot and activate the F key, might have some more damage

[@charleslynch340]

Its not a lack of testing that is the issue, the real issue is why the fuck would you even tie the F key bonusses to a specific point in time and not simply attaching it to the duration of the salvo flight time or just changing the parameters of the shells specifically (like firing two types of AP shells, when you F key, you fire AP shell 2, when you turn off F key, you fire AP shell 1). And we wonder why there are so many bugs in the game

[@NormusDiabolus]

Wouldnt it be easier to test it with Zorkiy and BB extremities? With its normal 22mm Pen and 33mm Pen with funny button.

[@dobbysurround1540]

watching this feels good to know i deleted the game since a week ago

[@pudelosha]

No worries. They will apply spagetti-fix, for example 10 second cooldown after you hit F key :D

[@clmwrx]

Yup. Really begs the question, did they really not test for this or they did and just figured what the hell

[@tyrodin_]

e sports ready

[@luckymies205]

So where you can send a report about Bugs?

[@mantabloke8141]

Cant wait to see you use it in game :)

[@Erololo]

OF COURSE!

[@GermanMeskStupidMan]

This was un noticed for almost 3 years

[@clmwrx]

Un noticed by the masses at least

[@arthurbrickley4108]

You can see the AP shell icon change when it is activated. The ap shell goes full red when it is active and red striped when normal.

[@ezequieldg7509]

its impossible for wg to police every shot from every player on every battle. they either fix this or issue a blanket warning that they wont be able to back up.

[@marcingrzybek8516]

That's not spaghetti coding, it's cyka soviet-style coding

[@maxwelllittle5291]

Playing Edgar and timing your F key to have burst when every volley hits but off when you shoot.

[@exseen24]

could it be cause of the engine calculating on it instead of on cast (good ol old mmo engine)

[@infeedel7706]

omfg in the Twitch comment says it all

[@romandolgiy4351]

It'll be patched tomorrow, you are not a;;owed to pen CVs. Or, more likely, they'll just slap another 50mm plate on top.

[@Frankon81]

Was in game for at least few months... maybe years.

[@clmwrx]

Has been in game since those ships were added

[@mefodius2]

Just tested this on CIS, and it seems CIS is not affected by it.

[@Con5tantine]

Its literally only checking if the F key is engaged when it makes contact...

[@zhuravlevivan4622]

Wait, so Edgar has other buffs on F-key other than burst fire?

[@clefsan]

Yes. +100% armor pen and +50% damage

[@hansigasus2006]

This could be fixed by just checking if the consumable is on cooldown

[@stefanb.8462]

Secret Numancia buff

[@ComeonmenID10T]

WeeGee the thinking Mens action game

[@CMDRFandragon]

Can they fix the x key bug? Cuz I swear aint no fkin way the Massachusetts is as inaccurate as mine has been. Lock on a ship and the game doesnt update properly, treating my shells as if they arent locked on? Cuz I swear, one game my shells are *moderately* and useably accurate, the next, its just an entire game of "where the fuck is that going?!" Also, game is adding damage/pen bonus abilities now? Yet BBs have to remain bullshit levels of inaccurate? Time to update WOWS to give every cruiser Repair party(Its been used as a gimmick enough, time to just make it the norn for all ship classes). Then buff BB Accuracy a bit. Also, Cruisers, with way more accuracy and RoF getting damage/pen buffs that allow them to basically be near BB levels of penetration, pretty dumb I gotta say.

[@TR-kk2bh]

What about dds ? Any contestants there?

[@VUO4E]

Why so sure about the dispersion...?

[@TeeLamba]

They are just going remove the pen bonus for both ships and pretend it never happened