Another hone job doesn't pass muster!

In this episode we have to bore a v6 toyota to fix piston clearance problems.
/ powellmachineinc
Powellmachineinc.com

[@MichaelScudder72]

Reminds me of some of the contractors I've worked for. Never have time to do it right,but plenty of time to do it twice. Your channel rules. Work ethic and integrity. Always taking time to do it right a d explain how to do it right.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Right on, I really appreciate that 🙏

[@strokermaverick]

Completely, agree!

[@randallmason9687]

You can do it right, or right now. Usually not both!

[@timothyconner4255]

Heat info! Thank-you, so much!!

[@DavidM2002]

When I watch your videos, it takes me back to about 1971-72 when I "rebuilt" a 327 small block Chevy engine. Why that engine even ran when I was finished is beyond me. I really need to charge the battery on my time machine so that I can go back and do the job properly. As they say, "We get too soon old and too late smart."

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@jonathanenglish7109]

Dang I learn all kinds of stuff from this guy. Makes me want to tear the whole engine apart and re do it

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad it's helpful

[@CamaroKevin84]

I swear u have the cleanest machine shop I've ever seen.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I got ocd about a nasty shop!

[@hotrodray6802]

​@@powellmachineinc3179 👍👍👍

[@4thdimensiontravels855]

As you may know, machinr shops are the worst of the bad. And it is immaculate.

[@SDS-1]

Johnny Bravo as a machinist❤❤🎉

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@SDS-1]

@@powellmachineinc3179 🫶🩷

[@joecummings1260]

I remember way back in the day we knurled used pistons to tighten them up in the bore when we did a ring, bearing, and valve job. Sioux valve grinder that was originally dry with a coffee can full of oil hung above it to drip while I ground. Black and decker vibrocentric seat grinder, I must be old lol

[@powellmachineinc3179]

It was like that when I started

[@sunriseboy4837]

Love your work, brother. Sadly, what's missing here, is a demijohn of white lightnin', and a corn cob pipe with some decent Virginia and Kentucky blend.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I will agree 👍

[@Emilthehun]

Machine shops are like wizards. The patients it takes to do this is amazing.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We try hard

[@pimpnick4920]

I have a mill, lathe, turret lathe, surface grinder, and some other old machines I got from my friend when he bought new equipment. They are old and he made scrap metal with them. He needs more precision than me. I'm just a hack. I have done some single cylinders for my friends and myself. I love your videos. It takes me way longer to set up and sometimes I have to buy tooling that costs more than sending it out. I try to learn and sometimes I throw parts away. Keep up the work. I learn from you.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

That is exactly how to do it!

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Yup,if I could get a truck and do a 500mi one way trip to Akron ohio ,a buddy has a couple of milling machines and lathes and some other equipment he pushed back in the corner of his shop since he's doing a lot of CNC production now. He's still got a few machines set up,but it's more for himself. All they're worth to him at the moment is scrap value.

[@pimpnick4920]

@@MrTheHillfolk I'm an hour from Akron. My friend just started under cdl hauling. He had a 9k lb mill on last week. Let me know if you need them moved.

[@PCMenten]

Another masterclass in automotive machining. Thank you, sir. Always worth watching, even for non-machinists.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We appreciate that!

[@cujet]

Thinking about air cooled aircraft engine cylinders. We have taper at the top with the intention that it will expand to the correct size when it hits operational temps of about 400ºF. The taper can be as low as 0.002 inches or as much as 0.008 inches! The level of precision in modern Automotive engines is, by comparison, epic good.

[@brettshurtz4098]

Where i work the service truck i drive i had to remove the cylinder heads due to them being cracked and leaking coolant into the engine oil as well as burning it. This engine was replaced 4 years previous to my employment and when i removed the cylinder heads Stevie wonder got ahold of the ball hone and honed it. No cross-hatch, just stayed in one spot. And this engine was built by a very well known engine rebuilder / used engine dealer by the name of Dahmer powertrain here in kansas city. So i removed the engine and had it bored and honed correctly by a reputable well known machine shop. It pays to do good work. My company will never do business with Dahmer Powertrain again. By the way it was a 6.6 Duramax. Great channel. Keep up the good work. Quality work is hard to find these days.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you for watching!

[@ataxpayer723]

Your machine shop is very clean, and well maintained. Nice job.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yes, we take pride in our shop and work!

[@Neal-lf7rk]

I see it all the time on KZbin. Dingle berries using a dingle berry and swearing "that's all you need right there".

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yup

[@Gary65-fl4rz]

Been assembling engines for over 50 years, thought the grey sludge was a normal part of break in. I think it’s time for the local machine shop to get up to speed. Once again, thanks for the information

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Right on

[@grantfuller2016]

I’m a motorcycle mechanic and recondioners who couldn’t get their heads around tight tolerance have been one of my biggest issues over the years . Current guy is good , I just tell him “ no more than 1 thou - if the piston just falls through the bore under its own weight then it’s loose enough . Did have to take one back that needed a little “ push “ , but in all honesty. If that was my engine , I would have assembled it like that and run it in a bit longer . 30 years ago I didn’t matter what you asked for - they always came back 2 1/2 - 3 thou , basically 3/4 worn out . .

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@srberus]

Lord save us. I had the argument 10 years ago. This is a great video, and I appreciate all the information

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad it was helpful!

[@waltermcmahan5096]

Love the way you explained the need to check tolerance of any work on clearances no mater who does your machine work. You sound like my grand father and father who had a black Smith and small machine shop just out side of your town of iva until early 60s thanks for all the great work you do and keeping the trade correct ❤

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely!

[@Mr688895]

Just ordered a hoodie but still holding out hope for the, “Hang loose, Let’s get into it!” edition. Great video and very informative. Thank you.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

There coming

[@RustyorBroken]

Say what you will, but Ray keeps busy.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts.....

[@111000100101001]

He got plenty of action.

[@GeorgeFarahGNR]

Thanks Again Daniel. and yes we requested to have over sized pistons to next available size and the response was “there isn’t any, only std bore” Love the videos and quality you pour into the machine work.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We appreciate the business!

[@artt3165]

When I was running the shop we measured everything before it went to the machine shop and measured everything we got back. Then we assembled the engine. I was never a fan of having the machine shop assemble engines because it was too easy for somebody who wanted to cut corners to hide that in the assembled engine. I never had a bad machining job with the "regular" shop I used but I did run into problems when we couldn't get the job done by the regular shop due to scheduling problems. If you NEED to know the actual size of things I've found the mid priced Chinese tools will get the job done. When I was teaching we had students using that stuff all day and it was definitely close enough ( 5-6 tenths ) to my Starett & Mitutoyo ( made years ago) tools.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@BC-wg5pq]

Ty great video, really informative, much appreciated.As a tradesman learning something new correctly is much appreciated .

[@jamesmanassah566]

This type of job needs an acronym... "The RCDBHJ" - the Ray Charles dingleberry hone job

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@jim8027]

It blows my mind the crap some shops think pass as acceptable work! Good thing this block ended up at your shop, because it gets done right and the owner will have a good motor.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We really appreciate the vote of confidence!!

[@mikeleschber33]

Another great video! As I watch your videos, I think.....why don't these shops watch your channel to learn the right way to do things? I have learned more from you in the past year about engines and machining , than I have in 20 years of reading and watching others. I wish I lived close by so I could work for you for free just to learn. Thanks!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Awesome, I really appreciate you

[@glenurban3596]

Thank god for an honest man. I do this type of thing every day and that's exactly how things are. I bore for .003-.004 short of size. .0025 will work but safer to leave a margin or error. Well done.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯 ty

[@dc6233]

I love this guy, he's such a smart and well spoken dude. Those Kwik Way machines are amazing, made to last a lifetime!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Tyvm

[@robinfulton9057]

I’m liking these Ray Charles stories, keep up the good work. 👍

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad you like them!

[@sbelyo]

I absolutely love your approach to this subject! I can learn more by listening to you talk about it that I ever could reading it. Can ya'll build a motor for my ZL1?

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@sbelyo]

@@powellmachineinc3179 very cool... I'm having trouble deciding what to build. I'm at 623 HP to the rear wheels (2013) on stock short block and heads running E60. I want to go to 7.0L will that be ok?

[@frasercrone3838]

As always, a great video for learning new stuff. I watch several KZbin machine shops and I like seeing the different machines that do the same jobs and how they have changed over the years.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad you like them!

[@douglasbuckland8280]

Learn something new every time I watch one of these videos...

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Awesome

[@keysautorepair6038]

This always goes back to. It’s never the machinist fault when you don’t have the tools to check the work you paid for who really pays the engine shop always blames the builder every machine shop I have been to is way behind months and when you get something it’s usually junk nowadays glad someone actually cares about it being done right.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We try hard!

[@Steelhorse741]

Ray Charles sure gets around.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@stevej8478]

Learn something every time. Thanks for all the effort and time it takes to make one of your videos.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I appreciate that!

[@wraithgard]

this sounds just like my recent 4 cyl build. i asked the machine shop to just touch the cyls with a hone so i had a nice surface to break in my rings. engine ran great before refresh. i saw shadows on the thrust side and trusted their measurements of the bores as it showed to be in spec for std size pistons. i have skirt slap until the engine is warm :(

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep, it's scary out there

[@wraithgard]

@@powellmachineinc3179 considering its just a noise im not very motivated to take it all apart again. i purchased the parts to do it if the chance arrises, then comes the task of finding a good machinist.

[@cooolfly]

Both entertaining AND informative! Thanks for taking the time…

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@jimamizzi1]

Thanks for sharing Daniel, all of us here really appreciate you going through all this extra work off filming

[@powellmachineinc3179]

My pleasure!

[@strokermaverick]

No doubt, it's right now! Great job, sir! Always a pleasure, watching your channel!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@mosesadk454]

I have argued for years that you dont thneed expensive mics and dial bore gauge. I have Chinese measuring tools that are supposed to be made to ISO 9001 standards that i bought from Jegs ,years ago. I agree with you that it's a reference number. I work on snowmobile and motorcycle motors .

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯 correct

[@bobhudson6659]

Glad to see the keyboard experts are still contributing. Low gear for honing? You haven't ever done this before. The only motors you have done were junk. You don't know how to read any micrometer. Your measuring standards are not accurate. What else might they say. All I can say is that you need to have thick skin to put something up on KZbin. Yours is a lot thicker than mine. I would challenge anyone who sits behind the pseudonym to say their comments face to face and show me that do actually know what they are talking about. Also the many race winning engines they have built. That's why I have no intention of ever putting anything on KZbin. You do good work Daniel, Aleesha and Andrew. Keep it up. Have learnt heaps. Retired mechanic/manual machinist in lathes and milling machines in Land Down Under.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep, it's crazy 🤪

[@ibntheibn]

You guys are really inspiring on here one day i can build a engine i just do mobile mechanics self taught and i do good work

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, we really appreciate that 🙏

[@jackhaskins6855]

I think this guy is from Massachusetts!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO Awesome channel 👍

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Brooklyn....

[@apex107lrp]

You should trademark "Built By Braille Engineering"....😋

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@gtgarage]

The block I'm working with now, a 351W roller block, had all cylinders well within spec although a good honing would have brought those measurements to the spec limit except for one issue - all the cylinders had a .001 to .0015 'dip' on the exhaust side within about 1/2" from the top that put the cylinders out of spec. Odd, I thought. Going in for .020 overs.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@ovalwingnut]

Pure Gearhead Gold (PGG). You've completely changed the way I'll "shadetree" a motor in the future. The check is in the mail my firend. p.s. A clean shop is a canvas for a happy life. Clearly you must be very happy Thanks so much.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, we r really appreciate you

[@corndog6700]

Hey brother, I get it. I've been doing aerospace machining and flight parts for a long time. I hear some people talk about how they are accurate to within . 0002 over a 36in table he supposedly hand scraped. Not in your garage you didn't. The biggest question is, how did you check it. You aren't going to use a height gage on your little granite block to check flatness, squareness, true position, perpendicularity and everything else, that's a pretty tall order. Especially using that GEM indicator they've got. Or Baker Welding 1 inch travel indicator. But I also get the budget guys and theyre used stuff. Not everybody can afford a nice new block or crank and rods, for a class that doesn't pay anything for a win. I was in the industry, for years, and I can't afford to do it, even doing 90%of the work myself.

[@corndog6700]

Good show.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@glenurban3596]

Stone length should be 1/2 cylinder length. You can shorten the stones as needed. Honing slower always works better than faster. You should have been in low gear to finish. Good job just handy hints from a brother at the same level. Operating old machines into the future and still winning.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Stones are cut down, what do you mean "low gear"

[@someonehasthisid]

I don't doubt it a bit. Back in the 80's I bought a rusted El Camino from a guy with a fresh 350 and I could see the Engine Rebuilders tag right on the front of the block.They were a volume shop located in Little Rock. Pulled the motor for a swap and thought I'd just freshen it up and there it was, bored .030 with 4 cylinders still sporting shadows in the middle plus a 307 crankshaft.

[@yarrdayarrdayarrda]

I haven't bothered to check with the newer engines like the LS, but the old 350 Chev engines, the clearance was in the bores at standard. If you order a new set of standard pistons, well they have say 0.003" clearance built in. Now you have 0.004 or 0.005 piston to wall clearance. The only place for standard size pistons is a brand new block or one that has been sleeved back to standard.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

No, a cast piston in any water cooled engine will have .002 or less

[@YZFoFittie]

I like to use LS blocks that can just be honed from STD to clear a 2618 piston. That's a cherry block...

[@laytonturpin864]

Thanks a million! I still get a giggle out of the Ray Charles reference!!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@ibntheibn]

as a reference is smart

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@Dave.S.TT600]

Awesome ... Thanks for the video

[@powellmachineinc3179]

My pleasure

[@bassettraceengines]

Thanks for sharing !! That engine would run but would knock and use oil.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thanks, definitely

[@jimgandee2570]

So interesting to learn about shaving the peaks off of the cross hatch! That was accomplished by just by using finer abrasive?

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Correct

[@edreeder9853]

I sure wish I could learn this business, it's just amazing.!!!!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

You can!

[@billyhorton5779]

Failing to check ring end gap after a rebore is a mistake that only has to happen once to a person to make you a believer! The excessive blowby that resulted from the parts store supplying standard rings to an oversize cylinder required complete removal and disassembly of a newly rebuilt engine to install the correct size piston rings! Check and recheck while its apart, mistakes happen! Been there!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@RealDougFields]

I have turned down work for this reason. A customer comes and says "I just need you to hone it and give me a good surface for new rings." If it is out of spec I say "No Thanks." -which is like every time.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep...but this customer wanted it done right, the shop chose to ray Charles it

[@mikelawler2278]

My wife said it should be Stevie Wonder in Ray Charles' shop since Ray passed.

[@DangerousSportsForSeniors]

You could have measured that mess with a feeler gauge. Thanks again for sharing

[@powellmachineinc3179]

You bet

[@brettsanderson8680]

After watching so many of these Machine shop videos I have noticed a trend of really poor machine shop work coming to all these different shops. I know they are out there but I cant believe there are THAT many shops that are turning out work this bad and still able to stay in business. What I'm hoping is "I got it back from another shop and it was like this" is just code for "I watched sloppy mechanics and tried to dingle ball it myself, But I f'ed it away and now I don't want to admit it".

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts

[@donaldhalls2189]

Both entertaining and informative,

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty

[@scudzuki]

I have 0-4" Chinese mikes from the 1980s. They are as precise as the Mitutoyos, Starretts, and Browne & Sharps I also use. I also have a Chinese dial bore gauge set from the same era. They're as good as any I've used. I've seen some real crap tools from China, too.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@timothybayliss6680]

I know there are 4.070 ls3 pistons available for guys that just need to clean up. 0.005 lets you clean the holes up. I wonder if a shop actually did this, this doesnt look like something i would do with a drill and a glaze breaker.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

No cast pistons are available in .005 over, that's mostly a Ls thing

[@NoMatter78]

You need to have a show on MotorTrend.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol, probably not ready for that yet

[@futten3230]

was just thinkin to myself just before you said it that i looked like a dingleball job

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@paul44235]

The previous shop obviously didn't use torque plates! Lol

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely....or a bore gauge

[@brianalbrecht4423]

i'll tell ya Daniel ...4 a blind guy....ol Ray...keeps him self busy...!.."ray charles hone job"...!..lmao ...thanks 4 the practical & correct content...!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯, you are very welcome 🙏

[@Gorilla.Guitar]

i was an engine builder for 35 years.. more so than any other mechanism, including the human body, requires more attention paid to the details than any other.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@johnd5805]

When I saw Ray Charles I had to click. Lol lol

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@mikenixon4637]

Good stuff. Lot of bad technique out there. I preach this same message of mic piston, transfer to bore gauge, and use the bore gauge in the cylinder. Constantly.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Right on

[@gothicpagan.666]

From a younger generation we say Stevie Wonder👌

[@frankkreyssig7626]

The engineer that thought an open deck cylinder bore was a good idea😂

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@MarineGrunt]

Now is when I wish you'd break out the profilometer and check that cross hatch . Just for fun of course , it has to be corrected anyway .

[@leafhater1]

Love it

[@powellmachineinc3179]

@@leafhater1 ty

[@patrickwendling6759]

Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 TRUMP 2024

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@kevinwest3689]

I'm so glad I ran across this comment and the response to it. My grandfather was one of the suckers that gave his life in WW2

[@stacetriebwasser6425]

Ray Charles seems to be gettin around these days!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep, he's driving again

[@stormyyoung6344]

Thanks for teaching me something today.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Any time!

[@bowtiekid329]

I noticed that there were 3 round fingers that protrude horizontally from the boring head. What are you moving or turning to make these 3 shafts come out of the boring head to center the boring bar in the cylinder? BTW, thanks for the comments about piston/cylinder clearances with standard pistons in a used "UP" non-standard block! I have a 2002 5.3 Silverado LS engine that has piston noise for about 3 minutes total running time at each start up! Doesn't take any oil, but the noise is noticeable only on cold start-ups! Thanks again so much for your videos! Very helpful in many aspects of engine building!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

You are very welcome

[@hotrodray6802]

🔔😎🇺🇲Informative IS entertaining !!!! YeeeeHaaaaaw!! 25 yrs ago at the race shop I did all the block work except line hone. I set it all up and the boss did that. 🙄

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯, awesome

[@xxkingslayemxxgamer5553]

At least they stopped and let a professional check it

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely, It could have been bad

[@timtrax918artisan8]

your not throughing anyone under the buss, they litterally fell under it all by them selves sir

[@powellmachineinc3179]

You have a point

[@rickseeman5679]

To get more Rvk I go up on pressure for the last thou to size.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Will try that

[@mikesh8968]

Just the idea of jumping between metric to imperial specs give me pain...lol On the old motors u probably can get away with semi rebuild (Build simpler and not high HP)Also maintenance was easy and affordable....oill is at cheap preventative med But when technology moved to high HP U better rebuild it right the 1st time

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@vg23air]

fascinating

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty

[@daileydriven]

I was always told that aluminum blocks needed to be machined using torque plates to keep the cylinders from going out of round. However, the people making these statements were not machinists. I was wondering what your opinion is on this.

[@NoName-yr1jv]

Well done 👍

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you 👍

[@johnnycu]

I never knew you could overbore a Toyota V6

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@MrTheHillfolk]

You can overbore anything,question is if oversize pistons are available.

[@Anthony-nw5zv]

Informative and entertaining 😊

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad you think so

[@johnbonifas6040]

Can you make a video on the proper way to use the gage

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Will do

[@Basketofdeplorables173]

you would think if it was dingle berry it would have gotten rid of the shadows.

[@richardflagg3084]

Measuring doesn't have to be Chinese rithmatic. I really enjoy all of your content. Thanks Cuz

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Awesome, glad

[@NeilEnvySA]

They Honed the Shit out of it. If you do that the Hole gets larger and out of round. Bore it oversize and fit new pistons. Will cost more money,but it will be done right.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep, that's how it works

[@scottymoondogjakubin4766]

Not a big fan of open deck cylinder bore cooling ! Its hell on head gasgets especially if its turbo !

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep

[@chopperguy57]

Learned alot

[@powellmachineinc3179]

AWSOME

[@havebenthere]

did RAy Charles help with that one? Lol

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@stewartmckinley7058]

30° crosshatch min

[@craigbowers4047]

You know Ronnie Milsap and Stevie Wonder are out there doing machine work as well.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ray runs the hone at Stevie wonders speed shop

[@georgedreisch2662]

So, y’all saying they didn’t use the deck plates, when Ray Charles honed that Toyota block, with the dingleberry hone? 😜😘 Might’ve used a 4” flap wheel. Them dingleberry hones ain’t cheap!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts