ANOTHER Lockheed 12A Crash! NC2072 17 June 2024 Jackson, GA.

Another very rare Lockheed 12A accident. This is the one involving Dan Gryder in Georgia. UPDATE: The tailwheel appears unlocked in the landing video, this can happen even if you have the lever in the correct position as the locking pin is held in with a bungee cord that can fail...
LINKS:
• N93R Lockheed 12A Chin...
• Fixing the Main Gear S...
• Air disaster Lockheed...
www.flightrada...
/ dan.gryder
MERCH: blancoliriosto......
Flying Eyes 10% OFF: flyingeyesopti....
PATREON: www.patreon.co...
GEFA Aviation Scholarship: goldenempireflyingassociation...
Learning The Finer Points -10% OFF! www.learnthefi....
Theme: "Weightless" Aram Bedrosian
www.arambedros...

[@nizexlizzy]

Pretty good video with all of the details you could have had. We did only work on the right gear and while tightening the brake line, didn’t tighten it enough. We tested everything on the ground before flying and didn’t see any leaks. Apparently when we started flying and the gear was retracted, it twisted the line enough to loosen the brake line. When landing, and the tail wheel lowered, it started moving to the left as the left wheel assembly is a little tighter than the right. This has been the normal operation since I bought it, and requires a tap on the right brake to keep straight. Locking the tail wheel doesn’t really stop this motion but would have kept us straighter for longer. However, if you look at a longer arc you would see we would have more than likely hit the gas tank. The Lockheed’s tail wheel does’t retract and has never shown any signs of trying to ground loop. If you don’t have brakes you can’t control most tail draggers. Some are light enough to control with rudders but the big ones are impossible. It was just a tragic situation with a ton of little miracles that made it all work out. I hope to be able to get her back into the air but it is going to be a job.

[@blancolirio]

Thanks for the update Niz!

[@JonnyJetPilot]

Most importantly no lives were lost. Hoping for a speedy recovery for everyone!

[@dhones23]

Good job once again Juan. Respectful and concise. I’m sure you’re correct that D.G. will have a story to tell, he always does.

[@johnlucas2037]

Thank you for the clarification. Wishing you and the others a full and speedy recovery! This too shall pass!

[@ericfielding2540]

Thanks for the clarification from the person who was doing the work. Best wishes for a swift recovery.

[@tennesseered586]

Former DC-3 instructor here (but without Lockheed 12 experience). You don't want to "fly the tail down" after a wheel landing in a heavy airplane. You want to keep the tail up high for as long as you can in order to keep the fin in the slipstream and the rudder effective. In fact, don't touch down tail low at all when you are first learning to wheel land. Roll the mains on and push the yoke forward to unload the wing and to put some weight on the mains. Many people get spooked by this. They think they are going to nose over, but they won't. Keep pushing as you slow to keep the tail up. Don't let the tail down right away and certainly don't try to "pull" the tail down early or you could lose directional control-you probably will lose directional control doing that. I don't know how the brakes are on a Lockheed 12 but on a DC-3 the brakes are very effective. Even so, you can brake hard in a DC-3 while on the mains, tail up, after landing. In that case, you do a balancing act between heavy braking and pulling back on the yoke to keep the nose up-but only do this if you need to stop quickly. By that I mean, better braking is not a reason to prematurely lower the tail. What you often see nowadays are pilots landing tail low and then bringing the tail down much too soon after a wheel landing, done in the misguided attempt to obtain better steering and better braking. That technique only makes steering and braking more difficult. I saw this poor technique being done on KZbin videos from the recent D-Day celebrations in England. That's also what I see happening in this present video but the tailwheel wasn't locked and that would have been the biggest factor in this accident. Did they not lock it? Or did the locking mechanism not work properly? I understand that this flight was the initial post-maintenance flight. The DC-3 tailwheel is locked with a shear pin that is designed to protect the structure from an overload. We always carried an extra shear pin because you can't safely fly a DC-3 if you can't lock the tailwheel. Does the L-12 have something similar that could have failed? On an airplane with a locking tailwheel, the takeoff is always done with the tailwheel locked and it is kept locked throughout the flight. There is no reason to unlock the tailwheel in flight and you shouldn't do it. If you unlock, then you have no guarantee it will re-lock properly before landing and no way to test it. It might or it might not; there is no indicator other than the control position. You can't tell for sure on a DC-3 and probably not on an L-12, either. Since the takeoff is always done with the tailwheel locked and it is left locked during flight, why was this airplane's tailwheel seen swiveling on landing? I wish the three injured people a full and speedy recovery and I hope the airplane can fly again. It's a miracle the two up front escaped death after such a great huge tree trunk came through the cockpit.

[@richardpedersen9189]

GOOD COMMENT!!!

[@josephoberlander]

This does indeed seem to point to a failure? Because I can't imagine trying to take off with it unlocked - it would be immediately noticeable, even just taxiing a bit into position. I don't see any damage or parts flying off - just - it's not locked. So maybe the forces during takeoff damaged it and it wasn't noticed because the plane was about to lift off anyways? There is a short period where the wheel is going very quickly because the tail hasn't lifted yet that a sudden bump could do that?

[@tonywilson4713]

Great comment. All I can add is you have described the EXACT same landing procedure I was given when learning to wheel land in a Super Decathlon. Tail High - Slight nose down AFTER contact - then hold it until the plane runs out of speed - then gently let the tail down. I have a degree in Aerospace and the description by my instructor made PERFECT SENSE. That slight nose down (push forward on the controls) reduces the angle of attack and with it a REDUCTION in lift. This helps steer the plane because the rudder is NOT being blanked by the wing as the speed falls away. It also helps prevent the plane lifting back off the runway which can happen if you pull back to soon because that increases the angle of attack and INCREASES lift. I also not that Jack Anderson (below your comment) says basically the same as you.

[@PRH123]

In the video, does it appear that he landed as you advise, or could he have held the tail up a little longer?

[@alanm8932]

Regarding not unlocking the tail wheel in flight... As some of the purpose of the flight was to confirm that no "killer items" could get missed in the check lists, I'm wondering if the tail wheel lock was deliberately set to unlock in flight, to check that it was caught by the check list? And either not reset to "locked" (unlikely) or was reset to locked but didn't actually lock. As you say, there would be nothing unusual about it not re-lockling correctly in that circumstance and hopefully the guys on board fully understood that and would not be doing it. (Unless there's something unusual about the tail wheel lock on the 12A that allows a reliable unlock/lock operation in flight). In a way, it would be nice if this was a mechanical defect rather than an operator error but is that likely when the tail wheel was presumably locked OK during takeoff?

[@mattj65816]

Well, here’s a video you need to watch to the end. Wow.

[@Scottyg8050]

Lmao for real. I was about to click another video when I heard the hot off the press. Absolute slam dunk.

[@kneel1]

Omg same i just started re watching from beginning thinking i missed him mentioning him earlier because i was like WAIT. WHAT?! (At the end) Is that for real?

[@zapfanzapfan]

Always good with proper video evidence.

[@swiftadventurer]

Except the END of the incident is missing.

[@JamesTK]

@@swiftadventurerthe end of the incident is the photos. That’s good enough. YT doesn’t take too kindly to some content

[@ericfielding2540]

Good to hear that the three people onboard are likely to survive. It is amazing to see airplanes built in the 1930’s still flying, but losing two airframes in one week is sad.

[@DanG-sx9le]

Unfortunately, I am not sure Dans ego survived. In a few days we will know, AND probably have the DTSB report exonerating everyone named Dan on the flight deck.

[@tonyasmith5437]

@@DanG-sx9lethis made me laugh out loud for real … and so accurate.

[@First-Name_Last-Name]

​@@DanG-sx9le I'm not a pilot nor have any aviation knowledge, and googled "DTSB NTSB" since i though it was another new branch of NTSB, but for domestic transport (hence DTSB) I was so wrong.

[@jimimmler9110]

I don’t want to speculate, and Yes I agree that any number of malfunctions could have contributed to this crash. But reinventing an established cockpit flow at a critical phase of flight is a potentially problematic situation. Regardless of the right seat prowess.

[@oliabid-price4517]

I hope that is repairable, but it does look like quite an impact. 😢

[@MarcosElMalo2]

“Trying to land a shopping cart backwards.” What a great description.

[@paulis7319]

When I got my tailwheel training in 2004 the instructor said "it's like pushing a shopping cart backwards." Never thought of it as landing a shopping cart backwards till now. lol

[@pokerbosscycler]

check list top 5 lock the tail wheel gee.....

[@terrysmit4629]

nobody seems to give a damn about the poor tree!

[@ronaldglider]

Was just about to enter this as the best comment I heard about landing the Electra!

[@TexasKid747]

@@pokerbosscycler I wonder if there is any indication of "tailwheel locked" on the panel. Somehow, from 1936, I'd guess not.

[@RustySax1949]

Juan - I must say that even though I know you and Dan don't always agree, I must applaud how respectful you are in this commentary. Thankfully no fatalites, except maybe the airplane. As always, Cheers from GEG!

[@scifikid108]

Unlike Dan in his latest Facebook post who's having a dig at Juan

[@davidwebb4904]

Despite reaching a completely wrong conclusion. Just looking at that video its clear as day its a right brake failure. Nada to do with the tailwheel.

[@812MSS]

@@davidwebb4904 OK Dan

[@GenoSalvati]

@@812MSS See note pinned at the top of the comments. Brake failure.

[@hamadalthani6248]

I've been a pilot for 40 years, I must say that you have beautifully constructed an argument without stepping on someone toes. GA and airlines need people like you. Nowadays, I fly my own tail dragger (Extra300), and they tend to run away very quickly especially in a narrow runway with a cross wind+ the additional gyroscopic effects. Keep the good work 👏

[@billt2341]

Glad that Dan and others survived the mishap, thanks for the video.

[@stevedemoe1359]

I hope I’m not the only “non airplane guy” watching this. Channel. I’m not a pilot. I don’t work in the industry at all. But something about they say you describe these instances makes it a very interesting topic to me. Thank you Mr Browne for all the hard work you do👍

[@chrismoule7242]

Ditto. I find it fascinating. I am also astounded [though of course I should not be] by the amount of knowledge that you have to have and to maintain.

[@Chishannicon]

Same here, except I'm a "non-airplane girl." I'm actually quite afraid of planes, but they also fascinate me, and Juan's expertise coupled with his "no bs" style keeps me coming back to his videos.

[@hamsterama]

I'm also a "non-airplane gal." I'm an accountant, and I don't work in the airline industry. Never took any flying lessons, and I don't plan too. I just think airplanes are cool. I fly several times a year as a passenger either for my job or to visit family. I love the whole experience of being tens of thousands of feet in the air in a giant, metal bird. I don't think it's strange at all to be a plane enthusiast without knowing how to fly. Think of all the train enthusiasts out there who don't work in the rail industry.

[@m1zzkt]

@@Chishannicon Same!

[@alvon911]

You’re not alone here. I work in EMS and the funeral business. I have no interest in flying, I’ve never liked it. But I find aviation fascinating and enjoy learning about it.

[@GlideYNRG]

Regardless of who was in command / on board, hope they all make a good recovery. Can't take any joy out of seeing anyone or an airframe banged up. Thank you for an informative video Juan.

[@jackanderson1598]

I owned 5 DC-3s and 1 Lockheed L-18. I always wheel landed and kept the tail high for directional control on roll out. The tail only came down when it wouldn't fly any longer. At that point, my groundspeed was minimal, and I could then pin the tail down with the elevators. 8 years and never a problem.

[@BoomVang]

Dan preached the same thing on his dc-3; keep the tail wheel high.

[@gordjenkins9574]

Same for the Grumman Goose. They have a tailwheel lock but they’re not needed when you land as you describe.

[@XRP747E]

Me too.

[@mikebell2112]

Dan's latest video, he showcased keeping the tail up a long ways down the runway.

[@zak2u2]

@@mikebell2112 Can't wait for Dan's Sunday video. We can be certain he will be honest.

[@craftykoala]

3 separate Medevac Helicopters responded. Each of them air lifted out. First responder comms were pretty intense.

[@av_oid]

Is it on an ATC website?

[@ronjones-6977]

Two for the 3 injured men and 1 for Gryder's ego.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Dan G was medevac too?

[@terrydavis8451]

@@ronjones-6977 AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I thought he lost that in the corn field.

[@cremebrulee4759]

​@@terrydavis8451he will NEVER lose that.

[@bighaasfly]

I used to ride my bicycle up to the airport and go over to RPM aviation so I could see the old aircraft that they had there. I never got tired of looking at them. Loved it! Thanks for the report Juan. Pity they cracked up the airplane. I hope they can get it repaired. Sure is a pretty old bird.

[@mikeh-p7q]

That's a long hard ride up. I used to work on the mountain top.

[@wesleybender6145]

No bicycle. Drove up to Cal-Nat. Ralph Ponte flew F7Fs during fire season and did most of his RPM restorations off season.

[@sonoftherepublic9792]

Thanks much, Juan. Hope everyone makes a full and speedy recovery. This could have easily been much worse. Personalities aside, the flying community needs to rally around the aviators involved and wish them well. Great eyewitness video - looked like the tailwheel was spinning around like a top…

[@oldglory1944]

Would appear right aileron application involved ? The resulting YAW could be contributing ?

[@DanG-sx9le]

I agree. Dan needs to get back to work so he can pay off his debt to Cook.

[@Look_What_You_Did]

@sonoftherepublic9792 Found the trumptard...

[@ValerieGriner]

@@DanG-sx9le You are a TRUE JERK! What has Dan ever done to YOU? He's a great asset to the GA community and he has a BIG HEART. Leave him alone and bully someone else, or as they say..."GET A LIFE!"

[@hotrodray6802]

Reminded me of those damn pos Maule tail wheels 50 yrs ago.

[@PlataxJazz]

Glad all survived and wishing them all a speedy and complete recovery. These are the kinds of crash reviews that are very sobering, but critical to prohibit them from happening, again. Thanks for the good review, Juan.

[@Speedbird9L]

Wow! That tree certainly embedded itself into the fuselage. No wonder they all got pinned in their seats. I’m glad they all got out to tell the tale.

[@gracelandone]

As usual, the thoroughness of your reporting and knowledge of subject matter is impressive and simple enough that even us back-seaters can grasp it.

[@catherinesarah5831]

🦘🇦🇺 Thanks Juan for the respectful coverage of such awful event. Happy to see everyone got out alive. ✈️🙏

[@billflag841]

Good on you for not focusing on Dan, especially since you've recently had a tense relationship.

[@PTANV-x2g]

We’re going to down here in the comments, rest assured

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

Dan G i asked what to do if a non IFR pilot gets into sudden IFR due he says for months not to turn if emergencies.. and to wait a good time to turn. He posted back to KEEP GOING INSIDE THE CLOUDS until i break to VFR on top.. To not turn 180 because its dangerous. LOL..Really? What about if the tops are at 25,000 feet up. ?. That advise has killed thousands i think. He has Emergency Turn FOBIA. Emergency Turn Fobia some have. They freeze instead of turning when needed. I trolled him. I was a CFI of Bush Pilots from 1995 to 2001.. LOL..

[@CaptainReverendo]

@@CFITOMAHAWKhow is this relevant to this video 😂

[@drspock3454]

What am i ing? I haven't heard Juan say anything bad about Dan. They used to do videos together but then stopped but that doesn't mean they are having a tense relationship?

[@Studio23Media]

@@drspock3454 Did you miss the stolen tower light saga?

[@rustyneuron]

Juan is a class act. He is treating this crash with just as much respect and factuality as he does any other incident. Hopefully Dan recovers. Gryder is definitely not one of my favorite human beings, but I wish him a speedy recovery and thank Juan for presenting us, as always, with excellent commentary.

[@Halli50]

One more caution light for me: I am an old pilot flying an old airplane (well, not quite THIS old, but still...). The aircraft (a Helio H295 Super Courier) is not difficult or tricky as such but it IS a heavy 6-seat taildragger and it IS a handful. To compound the situation, I am flying less and less every year and I suspect my "patina of experience" is sneakily becoming a thick layer of rust. I am seriously pondering when to limit my flying to the trusty old Avid Flyer we built in 1987 - it is light, nimble and has has a very similar field performance. Still, I seriously need to consider when to call it a day (I'm approaching 75).

[@Sports-Jorge]

Try to fly with the next generation! Once given the experience, they can act as a safety pilot allowing you to fly longer, and you can pass down your knowledge so these planes can keep flying. It’s a win win win 🫡

[@seansoccer100]

Please don’t wind up on this channel🤞

[@HomesickforAlaska]

I think you may have already answered your own question to yourself. Fly with a young CFI that's trying to build hours possibly. Or just a younger competent pilot that may not get to fly as much as he would like. SAFETY FIRST!!!!

[@mikejettusa]

Forewarned is forearmed. You obviously care enough to do the right thing when the time comes.

[@occamsrazorblades]

A man's got to know his limitations. -Dirty Harry I live by these words.

[@TheAlphahirogen]

Was the tail wheel not locked, or did the lock pin simply break? In slow motion, it looks like the first impact of the tail wheel it had a decent amount of side load, potentially enough to break the locking pin. Should be fairly easy for the NTSB to determine quickly. Not placing bets on which one it was, but it's pretty obviously the cause of the accident. In a former life, I was a UH-60 crew chief and it seemed every pilot with any amount of experience in the bird had broken at least one tail wheel locking pin in their career. I got to issue a few "necklaces" myself after replacing them.

[@nadyamullen6098]

Yes very possible, when I flew Beech 18's I had one break and another jump out of locked on a bumpy grass field.

[@jessicav2031]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. It seemed a bit crazy that a flight to demonstrate the importance of following checklists would crash because they didn't follow the checklist.

[@crissd8283]

I doubt the side loads were that big. The tail came down nice and straight and it was on grass. It did come down a little hard but that should put side loads on it. Unless the pin was already substantially fatigued.

[@HongyaMa]

@@crissd8283 All it takes is a quick jolt on a side loaded roll out

[@crissd8283]

@@HongyaMa It looks like a good smooth landing with no real side loads on grass. If you can break the pin with this landing, they would break all the time when flying into paved runways. It could be the pin already had a fatigue crack and this finished it off, but I have a hard time believing a good pin would break that easy.

[@scottboelke4391]

I met this aircraft and owner last year. It's a beauty! He told me he's a software guy and travels with this airplane where his business is needed. I thought it to be an expensive mode of travel, and was duly impressed.

[@zak2u2]

Thanks Juan. I know you hear us say it but I hope you really understand what a valuable resource you are to the aviation community.

[@northface484]

I can't imagine D.G. not having the video running...

[@rob737700]

He probably doesn't want to incriminate himself.

[@HongyaMa]

@@rob737700 Don't be an ass

[@mikebell2112]

Again.

[@jiyushugi1085]

Yeah, kinda like all those cockpit voice recorders that get over-written.....

[@DanG-sx9le]

He has probably been busy deleting video.

[@dennislyons3095]

Always good to see everyone survived! Painful loss to the world of old airplanes. As an owner of a 1942 Howard I can attest to the maintenance issues with dealing with a very old airplane which does not have a good parts supply. The learning curve can be steep as you said Juan. It requires a lot of attention at every step. Keeping the energy direction lined up with the longitudinal axis can be a challenge in these airplanes with the long, heavy props that act like gyroscopes when changing attitudes from level to tail on the ground.

[@kenhurley4441]

Hi Juan, I met you at Benton KS. I got to fly that plane on July 17, 2020. She flew beautifully!

[@kenhurley4441]

I've flown a Cessna 140 and it takes a lot of right rudder to keep it straight.

[@matthewclark9012]

Excellent analysis, as always, Juan . If I had a choice of flying with either you, or Dan Gryder, I would select you , 100 % of the time 🎉🎉🎉❤❤

[@drenk7]

Thank you Juan for an excellent teaching experience, on such an old classic aircraft. Glad all occupants survived. As an owner of three 1946 taildraggers, single engine, after your rudder looses effect due to a lack of airspeed reliable brakes are essential for directional control. Especially in a cross wind.

[@RedBud315]

I used to see one of these planes flying out of Long Beach, CA airport every morning about 7:20 and later learned it was delivering the daily fresh fruit and veggies to Santa Catalina Island. Beautiful aircraft. Hopefully this one is repairable and good to hear all survived.

[@rayhall7759]

Yea…..i got thrown out of Kroger for landing a shopping cart backward! Management was not happy!

[@brianwaters7489]

The first thing I noticed coincidentally when I happened to see the footage of the landing earlier in the day, was the tail wheel castering upon landing. It can be seen doing this at the 14-15 second mark as soon as the tail wheel touches down.

[@bernieschiff5919]

Or the locking pin broke as someone mentioned here, a possibility on an older aircraft. Did the left brake bind as gentle pressure was applied? Let's see if the checklist was done correctly, there should be a consistent story with 3 in the cockpit, glad there were no fatalities, the initial news photos looked bad.

[@brianwaters7489]

@@bernieschiff5919 A real possibility. Although, I believe if the pin broke on tail wheel touchdown, the wheel would have remained straight, then castered. Whereas the tail wheel started to caster immediately even though it had barely touched yet.

[@davidalderman9547]

The tail wheel pin can break as it touches down once it snaps you will almost immediately get the shimmy it can feel vary violent

[@stephen_crumley]

It was definitely not locked, it’s a simple mistake any human could make. A very gentle landing on a very well maintained aircraft. I could see how someone with an ego to protect could try to use a broken pin as a blame barrier though

[@bretyoung1869]

Juan, great analysis, you are the best investigator on KZbin !! Hope all involved are going to recover, so sad. 🇺🇲

[@elosogonzalez8739]

As a huge fan of the Lockheed 12A, I'm saddened by the loss of these two magnificent aircraft. I hope those involved have a speedy recovery. There is another Lockheed 12A owned by the Parras Brothers in the Bay Area. Could you do a follow up to show the airplane and the procedures for operating this aircraft. The Lockheed 12A is a rare airplane, I'd hate to see another one lost. It's a complex aircraft. Since this was a "Shakedown" flight, I wonder if there was another issue with the gear. It did appear the tailwheel was unlocked. Damage was extensive, but it does appear it could be rebuilt. I hope so.😢

[@josephoberlander]

As bad as it looks, if the damage was mostly contained forward of the wings, it's likely rebuildable. With a lot of work, of course. Probably won't see it flying again for a decade.

[@elosogonzalez8739]

@@josephoberlander I've seen less restored back into a flying aircraft. I hope photos of the airplane gets outta that tree. Glad everyone ,I'll be ok. As much as I love airplanes; People matter more.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

What in the Wide, Wide, World of Sports? There can not be that many 12A still flying? And yet we have two crashes in days of each other?🤷🏽‍♂️🛩

[@langdons2848]

Just coincidence my man. These things happen, but agreed it's surprising.

[@adam-hd7kg]

lol. wide world of sports.

[@weschilton]

@@adam-hd7kg Ah brings back memories! I totally heard that in Howard Cosell's voice!

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@@langdons2848 like the whole thing about celebrities dying in threes?

[@langdons2848]

@@WALTERBROADDUS I haven't heard of celebrities dying in threes, but Google says it's a thing. But it's a big world out there, lot of people dying every day.

[@onkelfabs6408]

That calls for a thorough DTSB investigation.

[@psalm2forliberty577]

Dan got there as quick as humanly possible, CLEARLY.

[@182QKFTW]

@@psalm2forliberty577 Again...he's pretty good at this:/

[@thepurpleufo]

@@psalm2forliberty577 HA HA HA!!!

[@LatitudeSky]

Knowing Dan, his investigation will reveal the shocking news that he wasn't actually there. Or doesn't remember anything and there's no video.

[@carlzimmerman2017]

@@psalm2forliberty577 Dan might not be an un-biased voice in this case....😁

[@stephencopeland238]

IM NOT A PILOT IN ANY WAY/SHAPE/FORM but I do have a passion for older historic civil aviation - I really appreciate your channel for all you do in support of aviation and I feel your knowledge and experience is second to none so for me - you are my 'go-to-guru' when I want to know what really happened. Thank you so very much for sharing this

[@mmoly-cj4bd]

Great job as usual Juan. Always tactful and considerate in your explanations with the information available at the time of your videos. And, with great follow-ups later on. I would think that a tail wheel inspection would be on the pre-flight check list. You could lock and unlock the tailwheel and lightly push on the empennage side to verify each position or maybe you can visually see the locking pin prior to flight.

[@joncox9719]

ALSO, when you are at higher speeds and try to pull the tail down too fast, you increase angle of attack too soon and too much lift will get the mains "LIGHT" reducing the weight on the mains, reducing the effectiveness of the brakes and directional control. Always let the tail settle on it's on! "DO NOT ask me how I know!" ha!

[@josephoberlander]

If you look at old videos, they stand on the thing until it almost falls straight down as an after-thought. Looks scary, but the plane won't actually flip over. But this looked like a pretty well executed landing with very little bounce. They either forgot to lock the thing ( easy to verify from the lever position ) or something snapped.

[@GFSwinger1693]

"they crashed into a tree", "but they are out of the woods"

[@MaxRunia]

😂

[@catherinesarah5831]

Just another case of they couldn’t see the forest for the trees. 🙏

[@number1genoa]

Sounds like a question from the Branch Manager :-)

[@catherinesarah5831]

@@number1genoa 🤣 I think you should leaf that alone, after all the root cause hasn’t been determined. I’ve heard the Branch Managers bark is worse than his bite. Wouldn’t this be funny if it was the family tree they flew into. 🙏

[@stuartadamsrailfanningvideos]

Thank you for another interesting video! Glad to hear all onboard the Lockheed 12A will be okay. It looked like a a great plane. I'm a former railroad employee. One of my duties was to be a railroad equipment operations pilot (or instructor as a better term.) I was the Acting Motorman Pilot Instructor for the Willamette Shore Trolley (WST) in Portland, Oregon, operating a pair of 1991 built Replica Council Crest Vintage Trolley cars. Being a Motorman is a huge responsibility, operating a 50,000 lb trolley car! Every time I went out to instruct new Motormen, I always went through our instructor's checklists, including the emergency situation checklist. All Motormen I tested knew that if something went wrong, I taught them how to evaluate the problem and make a decision, especially if it was a mechanical or electrical problem, which could have potentially led to a fire risk. However, you can't plan for what might happen. That was another talking point, was that things happen, and to make the best informed decision with what they had to work with at the present moment. I was very safety minded, unlike some of our other Motormen Pilot Instructors. Everything I taught our Motormen all came down to one thing: safety, which included another key item: ALWAYS follow the checklists! The checklists are there for a reason! I instructed several Motormen. After that, I was promoted to Acting Assistant General Manager of WST before I stepped down to take a job outside of railroading.

[@nsmith440A]

Juan is so respectful. Good work as always.

[@thoughtful_criticiser]

Fortunately it's a lesson that hasn't cost more than anyone can give. Just pain, suffering and money, all can be overcome unlike the 15th. These aircraft are beautiful but they do extract penalties for errors. Hope all involved are repaired to full health soon.

[@dougrobinson8602]

Many thanks to the first responders for a successful airlift. Looking at the photo of the crash it's amazing all survived. I wonder if the pilots had only lap belts in the aircraft. Shoulder harnesses were the first thing I did after I bought my Cessna 140.

[@TonyRule]

*_"Shoulder harnesses were the first thing I did after I bought my Cessna 140."_* As someone that suffered facial fractures in a crash nearly 25 years ago, I'd say that was a good idea!

[@georgepelton5645]

I am so thankful all three will recover. Sad to loose such a beautiful airframe, but perhaps it can be saved. Dan's report will be interesting to watch, for sure.

[@edgarmuller6652]

Thanks for the review. Glad that there are no fatalities.

[@h2oman983]

I accidentally ran across Dan's video before seeing your report. I'm exercising the same professionalism in this response that you use in your videos. I also much prefer the synopsis you have put forth than the production I saw elsewhere. Keep up the great work.

[@wayneroyal3137]

I believe that’s the one I saw at Triple Tree last year. Glad all are ok.

[@MADHIKER777]

Juan, your knowledge of these old aircraft is amazing!

[@davidwebb4904]

Amazingly wrong…..

[@dogfoodking]

Wow..i can't stop saying wow...Gryder on board just blows my mind!

[@ZERO-911]

Thank you Juan. Your analysis as usual was heavily researched, concise and absent of judgement. We all learned from you, as always. It's Dan's unsupported knee jerk judgements and statements that have left me irritated with many of his past mishap "analysis" on Y.T. You did what you always do. You gave the operating crew a fair shake in your report. Maybe Dan will watch this and absorb that technique/skill from you out of gratitude,,,, maybe. Thank you again for yet another amazingly educational, researched, concise and nonjudgemental analysis. Most importantly you emphasized that all onboard are on the survivor's side of the ledger thus far,,,GOOD NEWS Indeed!

[@bertram_oredrock]

Prayers for all aboard the aircraft for a speedy recovery. Thanks Juan brown for this great report.

[@JoDaddysGarage]

Sad to hear about this. I knew the previous owner and he spent many years restoring it. He had us add paint to finish the restoration and the plane was used in the movie Amelia. I hope the passengers survive their injuries and make a full recovery.

[@SteamCrane]

Looked like a good landing, they kept the tail up pretty well, you can watch the elevator. I'm wondering about the recent brake work. Possibly left brake grabbed, or right brake was mushy, air in the line. At least they all survived to help with the investigation.

[@jaredjones6292]

On the pilot/owner KZbin video, about the repairs being made, it's interesting to note that at about 3:38 he talks about the how they didn't put the tailwheel in sand, and just locked it to the ground...then says something to the effect of "hope that works." Don't know anything about airplane mechanics, but that seems like a lot of weight to the tailwheel while having the front jacked up. Is it possible the pin was damaged during this time?

[@nixxtable]

Juan, I am flying from LAX to Miami tomorrow, and guess what its an AA 777 300er, my first time on my favorite plane. Pretty excited. Keep up the great content, much respect.

[@natural-born_pilot]

Thank you Captain Brown for this presentation of what we know so far on the incident. Glad to know there were no fatalities.

[@Ro32da72]

Darn trees - they know the most awkward places to stand. Very glad to hear everyone made it out of this in reasonable shape; it could have been so much worse. Props to all involved in the rescue and subsequent care of these three chaps, wishing you a speedy and full recovery.

[@Studio23Media]

That airport looks sketchy all around! The runway isn't even flat! 🤯

[@ibbylancaster8981]

Holy Cow!!! A buddy of mine owns a place there and I have flown out of it with a friend in his cub about 4 years ago. I also used to go out there as a kid in the 80’s with my grandfather who was an A&P and the guy who originally owned that airport. Glad all survived.

[@Fletch001]

Much respect for Glen Hancock. I use to watch his videos of him working on the aircraft he owns and must say he seems to be a very good A&P mechanic.

[@SteveMartin-dz5ih]

I'm glad Glen, Dan and their passenger are recovering. In Dan G's recent video, and even on Juan's flight in Glen's Lockheed, the tailwheel lock handle is filmed in the up position in flight. Handle up, unfortunately is tailwheel UNLOCKED on the Lockheed 12A. When the tailwheel lock handle with the silver knob is pushed down, it detents towards the captain, and locks in at the bottom. The spring feel when operating the handle comes from the spring on the tailwheel locking segment (clearly) shown in Glen's video of him resealing his tailwheel unit on his workbench. By Lockheed design, the locking segment (not a pin) is spring loaded to the unlocked position. When the handle is pushed down the cable moves forward, pulling the segment arm and spring forward, and the chunky locking segment engages in a cut-out, locking the tail wheel straight. Glen's Lockheed / Beech comparison cockpit tour video also shows the handle up which makes sense in the hangar. Handle up is unlocked. Additionally, Glen's Lockheed has pilot's and co-pilot brakes, modified to use Beech-18/ Goodyear parts. Beech 18 brakes can be challenging to bleed due to the Goodyear brake shuttle valve on both left and right brake calipers. The shuttle valves are required for pilot and or co-pilot brake dual pressure inputs. With a possible spongy right brake, the tail wheel lock if engaged, may have helped keep it straight, at least Kelly Johnson thought it might.

[@charleshaggard4341]

It is good no one is seriously hurt. Can't wait to hear Dan's description of what happened. I watch you, him, and Scott regularly. Thanks for the video.

[@bobwilson758]

Looks like they were seriously injured -

[@mikevandebunt811]

For the record, this is the Electra that was used during the filming of the 2009 film Amelia, staring Hillary Swank.

[@cremebrulee4759]

Thanks for that information.

[@jcarne1015]

Never flown a twin, but have extensive tail wheel time. Both in locking and non-locking versions. While flying my Pitts, equipped with a Haigh locking tail wheel, I have occasionally forgotten the pitot tube cover, but have never forgotten to lock the tail wheel before takeoff.

[@VMCAviationVideos]

Thank you for this excellent factual report Juan. I'm happy to hear that Dan Gryder and the two other guys are OK.

[@TheGeorgiaRover]

I got some photos of this beauty back in 2010 at the Wings Over Atlanta Airshow. Hate to see this, but glad all aboard survived.

[@linedog6186]

Nice of you to take the high road on this Juan. Even though there has been some tension between you guys, both have a goal of safer skies, both do a great job.

[@davidpearn5925]

We had a 12A in our hangar at Moorabbin airport (VH-ASV) which we traded for a second Beech 18. (VH-FIE joining VH-FID). My first tailwheel landing was in the 18 > FID. I frightend Capt George Sprigg by NOT 'pinning' it from a skip, but doing a tricycle recovery.....a three pointer. I didn't understand what the problem was........ until I learnt just how ineffective those ruders were when down low and blanked. Great times from the 60s.......

[@Neil_]

Thanks for being such a class act.

[@markb.1259]

Great to see the professionalism in your coverage in Dan's accident. Life can change in an instant. Thank you for your video Juan!!!

[@CentralStateMower]

Great job Juan, I didn't realize Dan Gryder was involved in an aircraft accident until today.Very thankful to hear that there were no fatalities!! It must be kind of surreal to do a accident video on a crash involving someone you have collaborated with on aviation safety videos.

[@crjlife_9082]

It’ll be interesting to see what they find. In the video you can clearly see the tail wheel free castering after it touches the ground. Either it wasn’t locked or it was and there was a mechanical failure of the locking mechanism.

[@stevecartagena9410]

Glad all are ok. This is the second incident I know of with Dan on board. Scary. Thanks for the update.

[@TRIPWIRE330]

You're not done flying a tail dragger until it's tied dwn.

[@TonyRule]

*you're

[@MediaMaverick_]

Excellent review as always. So thankful all will recover.

[@andrewjackson5127]

Gryder must have 9 lives. He seems to crash about once a year in mysterious circumstances, whether he's flying or being a passenger..

[@cadesmith4278]

Just don't schedule a flight with Gryder and Jack Roush together...lol

[@eddylauterback1312]

Should have lost his license when he was arrested because of a flying incident. (Google. It was on the news and paper)

[@pigdroppings]

Look at the very interesting photo at 14:42 It appears the the tree they hit went right between the two pilots. Now ... that's good ground piloting.

[@Studio23Media]

Yeah I've noticed that. It's quite ironic. I don't ever want to be on a plane with him.

[@nadyamullen6098]

@@sncy5303 also on the VIP party in Texas list I see

[@johnglowacki5515]

I vote for a mechanical failure on the tailwheel lock. Great analytical exam of the situation. Hoping for full recoveries for all.

[@jameshuggins7320]

Are you an MLB ump?😂 Clearly unlocked bro

[@nadyamullen6098]

@@jameshuggins7320 yeah there's no way the pin could have sheared or any mechanical issue with the tail locking mechanism.....impossible bro

[@bobwilson758]

Tail wheel lock system could have broken or not set to lock position , but it does act a bit Strange on tail touch down before t-wheel spins around like a button on a shithouse door . Here come the trees ! 🌲 Such a cool aircraft ! I see the owner pilot loves that machine -- Sure glad these fellas lived thru the crash - not sure about speed at time of impact ?

[@747driver3]

@@bobwilson758 I’m voting Dan was on the controls trying to show him a thing or two.

[@johnglowacki5515]

@@jameshuggins7320 well. no. This is clear as mud.

[@planespotter4494]

A friend owned an RV7 and got a fancy new square section tailwheel tyre. It was horrible, producing vicious veering from side to side. He replaced that tyre with a traditional round section tyre and the ground handling went back to being predictable and docile.

[@trinity72gp]

What a beautiful aircraft she was 😍

[@EneTheGene]

Is. Or at least it looks very repairable for me.

[@trinity72gp]

@@EneTheGene I hope so

[@Seeber420]

@@EneTheGene im not sure, that one pic of the tree in the middle of the cockpit looks bad, unless it's just a camera angle making it look like that.

[@thomasward4505]

Very good job on the polishing but I'm pretty sure that's not going to get fixed

[@skyedog24]

Yes in my opinion these should be put in museums so that future generations will be able to see them too 😠

[@shannonmc7090]

Glad everyone is okay! Looking forward to hearing what Dan has to say on Sunday. Thanks!

[@silaskuemmerle2505]

He'll say it wasn't an incident it was a demonstration of how the earlier crash happened

[@DrDeuteron]

3 souls on board, 3 airlift medivacs, ...do you know what 'ok' means?

[@cremebrulee4759]

@silaskuemmerle2505 😂😂😂

[@billbeyatte]

Great report. Thanks for the physics lesson regarding the CG on tail draggers.

[@paulnelson5314]

What a shame, such a pretty ✈️. Godspeed to a quick recovery to all

[@garymoss5475]

Thanks for your “straight and level” analysis of this and every report. WE learn a lot.

[@docholliday6635]

Glad dans ok.. hey i like you both..idc about all the other drama, life is more significant than tiffs.. y'all are both older guys, and i respect ya both knowledge is key and in y'all's case its invaluable.. ✌️🇺🇸

[@RetreadPhoto]

You’re right, Juan deserves a lot of respect.

[@docholliday6635]

@@RetreadPhoto Both of them do.!!!!!

[@docholliday6635]

I do respect juan. And dan, and hoover from pilot debrief..and flywire.. i respect all of them..

[@joesilverbliss1721]

Juan enjoy your channel. Can you please do a video on the June 17th crash of a twin engine piper out of Albany NY. The pilot didn't make it. It was big local news. The problem occurred a minute or so after take off. Thanks

[@jlvandat69]

Appears that landing the 12A is rather "scientific" as compared to most newer airplanes.......the flying ain't over until the beast is parked.

[@robertadams2857]

I would say it’s more “art” than science

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

That's true of all taildraggers, and I'd go so far as to say all powered machines (cars, boats included).

[@rippervtol9516]

My older instructors always said "The flights not over till your at the bar, on your second round" never stop flying the plane.

[@paulis7319]

@@paradoxicalcat7173 with over 6000 hrs of tailwheel time, I agree 100%

[@raulcrudele1]

Hi, i usually fly a PA11 taildragger. Instead of locking rear wheel, we use it by means of rudder pedals, to keep the plane straight into the runway centerline. If you lock that wheel, you have less tools to command the machine. In this particular case, it looks like the rear wheel was loose and probably not commanded by any means. Regards!

[@beno177]

Open your mind and understand that locking the wheel is on the list and just like getting the gear down. Cable broke or other linkage issues. Have time it these and other old ac. Opinion--you need room and not grass. You need breaking on a hard surface when things go wrong on the ground. Sad for Dan but it’s not very likely that they forgot to lock. Old ac have issues. You need room. Not only length but width and paved.

[@pittss2c601]

Don’t get on the brakes. Let it roll out until the end of the runway. The locking tailwheel keeps the plane straight even when gently applying one brake. My Pitts Special S1S had the locking Haigh tailwheel. It was nearly impossible to control at high speeds unlocked. Delmar Benjamin always said about his Gee Bee R2 that "if he loses his brakes, he loses his airplane".

[@brentdykgraaf184]

Glad all are above ground. Dang it Dan.... get well sir.

[@brentdykgraaf184]

Dan..met you in old Zeeland MI. With rotating disc prop video...lucky bugger. Get well sir. You and Juan have more people to save. I thought every 3 pilot knew groundloop gremlins live in the F.B.O.,s office bushes waiting for a taildragger.

[@malalexander3515]

Thanks Juan, great reporting and analysis. Your background and experience is most helpful.

[@captaindunsel2806]

If the tailwheel suddenly goes missing, I have an idea of who might have taken it.

[@DanG-sx9le]

And........it will be sitting next to the tailwheel lock control.

[@VMCAviationVideos]

Haha, that is funny. They might also find a 'light'.

[@DanG-sx9le]

Dan went up with him to do a review. I would hate to see what his checkrides are like!

[@joez.2794]

He didn't "take it." He "preserved it's integrity." For the FAA.

[@mwhe3111]

hahahahahahaa

[@golfbravowhiskey8669]

Main thing is everyone is OK. If you save that video and watch the landing in super slow motion it almost looks like something broke to me on the tail wheel. Mine did that 10 years ago or so on a super cub.

[@lostinasia25]

After seeing photos of impact with tree I'm glad there was no impact fire. Things could have been very bad with two pllots trapped in wreakage and fuel fire.

[@skyepilotte11]

Glad everyone walked away, sort of. Dan should have a real story with him in it next Sunday. It does appear something went wrong with the tail wheel. Thx Juan

[@InMyBrz]

and one hell of a headache

[@CaptVirtual]

Well so much for using the electronic checklist. I'd say Tailwheel: Locked is a killer item.

[@neilfoster814]

99% of my pilot in command flights have been on tail draggers with non locking steerable tail wheels. After the main wheels come into contact with the runway, you are doing what is called "The rudder pedal dance", that's to say, keeping the tail straight and preventing the aircraft from swapping ends on you. You continue to do that dance until you are down to a slow taxi speed, allowing you to use either differential braking, or the rudder connected to the tail wheel by springs. Like the old saying goes, you fly the aircraft all the way to the apron.

[@blancolirio]

Remember, this is a NON-STEARABLE locking tailwheel.

[@hotrodray6802]

Big flaps block airflow to tail.

[@navion1946]

You can see both rudders fully deflect to counter the left yaw. But without the tailwheel being locked it just wasn’t enough. I doubt this design could be certified in today’s world, there is just not adequate control.

[@davelove9211]

If the tailwheel has to be locked for takeoff, one wonders how it became unlocked during flight. It's certainly not on a checklist to unlock after takeoff, but definitely on the checklist to ensure its locked before landing. The possibility that it broke or dislodged the pin on takeoff, or then the landing. Investigation will tell.

[@701Builder]

Exactly! If it was a missed checklist item, it would have been missed on takeoff. The field looks rough and bumpy, when the wheel came down a side load could have snapped the locking pin spinning the wheel. There would be no reason to touch the lock in flight.

[@hotrodray6802]

Retractable .... Smh

[@wangfury]

They very likely did not lock the tailwheel before takeoff. With prop blast over the rudders, steering with rudders is effective immediately. Plus Dan stated on his video that he prefers to not use the tailwheel lock...(!). It's much more critical to lock the tailwheel for landing, when rudders have little authority and the brakes can be unreliable. Having it locked would have kept the plane on the runway!

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

First thing the tailwheel does when it touches the ground is flap around. Does not appear as though the tail wheel locked. Whether that was a failure of the pilot or the mechanism is to be determined.

[@davidwebb4904]

Right brake failure. Nothing at all to do with the tailwheel.

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

@@davidwebb4904 a right brake failure with a locked tailwheel wouldn't cause the tailwheel to swing loosely the way it did in the video.

[@davidwebb4904]

@@jrod_pilot_miami A tailwheel does not have active steering. It points along the axis of travel. With the right brake failure, the tailwheel is along for the ride.

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

@@davidwebb4904 I understand that. Look at the video. At the moment the tailwheel touches the ground it rotates around, as if free of its lock. Again, this could be a failure of the lock or failure of the pilot to lock the tailwheel. But from the video evidence we can all see the tailwheel lock failed, independent of a brake failure.

[@davidwebb4904]

@@jrod_pilot_miami Which had little relevance to this accident, which was 100% caused by right brake failure.

[@JFon-ck6mg]

Despite the lack of lock, it seemed to "fall in line" and the deviation began a full second or two afterwards so may be unrelated?