Another Smash Cheater Caught and Banned

[@myboy_]

Crazy that even with a superhuman sdi macro his defense still stinks

[@epitome8639]

In a way it makes sense though. Instead of practicing defensive techniques like everyone else they just rely on a computer to do it for them, so they don’t put in the effort of learning good defense or neutral

[@jaw2835]

goat take 🐐

[@myboy_]

@@jaw2835 you're my goat jaw

[@BURRDAWG_]

Cheaters are typically really trash at the game they cheat in. I've 1v1d a cheater in a csgo aim map when he turned it off and it was 15-0 i won. He turned it on 8-15 I lost.

[@drsipp407]

@@myboy_ you’re my boy

[@Littled0013]

He had an SDI Macro and still gets comboed lol. Honestly he needs it.

[@Yarharsuperpirate]

It just proves that those who rely on cheats, tend to suck at the game

[@totalcomedyisland1355]

his macros suck lol sdi wont work if youre sding the way you shouldnt be it you could sdi into get true combod cos you got the wrong sdi

[@GiftfromGod333]

Fox Up tilt IS THE MOST PUSSY MOVE

[@imalsoTOMATO]

Still boggles my mind how people cheat in a mod for a 20 year old game. Insanity.

[@Swagtildawn]

Still boggles my mind why you would even want to cheat in a game like this. You aren't going to win any money or recognition or anything. Just a weird ego trip.

[@ParagonPKC]

I think some people like to tinker? Just my two cents

[@versenh.1982]

@@Swagtildawn they probably want to see how people react online

[@blackeroni]

People will always crave power and domination in all facets of life.

[@turkeyman631]

@@versenh.1982 but there’s not even a chat… seems pointless that they’re both hoping someone notices they’re cheating and makes a KZbin video about it.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

This series is so entertaining and informative it ALMOST makes me wish for more slippi cheaters. I mean I don't want that but I want more videos lol.

[@topemeister3000]

What is slippi

[@miguelbravo8906]

@@topemeister3000 a multiplayer mod for melee

[@topemeister3000]

@@miguelbravo8906 Thank you, brother

[@mistaecco]

In general I try to keep away from this sort of video since it tends to fill my recommendations with "SCAMMER EXPOSED" and "GLOVER SPEEDRUNNER CHEATS - WORSE THAN HITLER" for about a month. I'm making an exception in this case because I knew you'd do a great job of explaining the quirks that make melee melee, and I can't help but love that. Thanks for doing what you do!

[@Miitsu222]

Yo link to that glover vid

[@thegameandwatch2799]

YT says you can delete the video from your watched history and it shouldn't recommend similar videos after that

[@AkramSaheb]

@@thegameandwatch2799 my question is how do you cheat worse than hitler? How did hitler cheat ?? He was a bad person but did the third reich have some sort of a+b a+b start or something.... or wolooloo to spawn soldiers

[@bimgus5808]

We need the Glover vid

[@666crippled666]

They lied about electric floors, shrunken heads, thumb lightswitches, nipple wallets, skin lampshades, giant freezers, masturbation machines, cages with bears and eagles, and more. What makes you then believe in their gassings claim?

[@CharlotteMimic]

If anyone has a BRKL#540 in their region, consider extending this ban to irl events! Hardware SDI macros are likely to work on GameCube/Wii as well.

[@kered13]

It doesn't matter if he ever cheated in person or not, he cheated and that's grounds for a ban. Sadly unless this guy is a total idiot I doubt anyone will know who he is.

[@curtana373]

i bet he is finnish

[@OhSoTiredMan]

It doesn’t matter if it is hardware or software because it’s still gonna read the inputs either way.

[@strangejune]

@@OhSoTiredMan Dolphin macros don't work on a Wii.

[@LWDIII]

“Basically it’s a defensive technique that’s…really hard to execute. By a human anyway” *laughs in Wizzy*

[@JohnCena-ep2mz]

I'm pretty sure I saw a forked tongue when he was sipping in between sets

[@ianstedman8672]

Exposing how cheaters cheated on tape and shaming them for it is a big step in the right direction to making the problem stop and I applaud you for it.

[@Jake19774TW]

It's even funnier when you realize that having consistently perfect SDI would make you predictable and when your opponent figures that out you'd be even easier to combo then if you just did it yourself

[@SufferDYT]

More like it doesn't matter if you have perfect sdi if you don't know how to use it.

[@RTU130]

Yes

[@Eldoofus]

Macro SDI is only truly dangerous when used by someone who already knows how to SDI by his own.

[@shoyupacket5572]

such is the beauty of melee

[@turndownforwalt]

This is like true crime for Slippi and I'm fully here for it

[@2600AltF4]

[@twelvevoltage]

Seriously imagine cheating on unranked and still getting combo'd XD

[@mr.bubbles4439]

Absolutely inhuman sdi into the worst side b recovery imaginable LMAO

[@ArcadeStriker]

*g u r v a n* Aside from my endless amusement at the genius idea of having the name always spelled out with an audio over your narration, its very interesting to see you cover something like this; thought that the last time I would see Melee cheating was in that AsumSaus video about the guy that had a memory card with a beefed-up secret Pichu and brought it to tournaments (but got caught)

[@NonRandomUser]

Sadly for BRKL, there's no programmable macro to GIT GUD.

[@donwald3436]

Programmers: "I wrote a program." Python programmers: "I wrote a Python program."

[@Naito9874]

I was like "Gurvan is definitely french" and then noticed the audio file was called dimanche (which is french for sunday)

[@thargimpaler]

Absolutely love these breakdowns! You make this highly technical subject so easy to understand, and entertaining as well!

[@CasuaICole]

It's quite interesting to see the skill difference of smash DI cheaters. I remember there being a peach that was doing the same thing. Although they both had the power to escape any combo they ever wanted, they both manage to somehow get in worse situations than if they were SDI'ing, or even DI'ing normally. What's even the point of using macros if you don't know how to use them to gain an advantage? Just play the game normally.

[@skyninegaming]

Melee feels like the strangest game to cheat at for me. I could understand really brutal inputs like the new subfloat turnip z drop to pull turnips as fast possible, and maybe perfect ledgedashes, but those can make or break a tournament game and so easy to tell if you're cheating IRL

[@xdeathcon]

@@skyninegaming melee is a weird game to cheat at because you either have to be actually good to get any use out of your cheats, or you have to automate so much of the game that it's exceedingly obvious and you're barely doing anything on your own. I wonder if this case was more along the lines of someone just being curious to see if they could do it

[@xdeathcon]

@vaLy Different games require you to have different levels of skill to be harder to find. In something like csgo, you can tune cheats to be rather hard to spot with even a mediocre skill level because of how the whole game functions as opposed to something like melee, where it's much more difficult to get positive results from cheating

[@SSB_Seal]

Popped off for the Nikki cameo

[@freddyjdukes]

to catch this cheater, you must analyze them getting owned by someone else

[@myboy_]

Well no matter how many macros he has he still sucks at melee

[@spintowin8971]

@@myboy_ that'd make it fun

[@onewingedakuma6835]

That sudden ai voice that says Gurvan’s name is hilarious and gets me every time

[@JLMetak]

That's not an AI that's Gurvan's actual voice.

[@aidanakbar1789]

I love how even with an SDI macro bork still cannot escape combos at all

[@link0192]

I actually had no idea you could get Banned on Slippi that’s crazy lmao

[@belladonna_fox]

I’d love to see a graph with boxx/F1 inputs to see how consistent they are. Also wizzy’s wank di would be cool to see go through the script

[@ln8496]

Most top melee players havent caught up to the weakest smash 64 players in terms of sdi

[@tiramusubi]

B0xx only allows for like 2 sdi inputs Wank DI on a gcc is busted by comparison Not sure if Frame1 carries the same sdi nerf that b0xx does tho

[@belladonna_fox]

@@tiramusubi it does not

[@lightbrand_]

I really struggle to understand the point of even having such a macro

[@kingd8m]

Because people get frustrated losing over and over again in a game thats over 20 years old. They desperately chase the dopamine release that is winning, regardless of whether theyre actually building skill

[@SJQVlogs]

I got canceled on the smash subreddit for reporting slippi hacking in August of 2021. To see you dissect these inputs in these videos is bizarre, because everyone refused to believe someone was using a macro to cheat on unranked.

[@alan_e_]

Lol, imagine being in the FPS scene were the majority of pros are using humanized undetectable aim assists and using basic hardware cheats to continue cheating in LAN. You'll be told to "get gud" even though you still top .1% in the game without cheats.

[@BURRDAWG_]

@@alan_e_ Dan m is that you!

[@chiyo-chanholocaust8143]

I like how we've reached a point where playing games can be easily analysed through scientifically method

[@dungeonscrew491]

I love the MTG lands in the background, the Unglued lands had amazing art and is still some of my favorites

[@Ricky_Grade10]

I have never played smash but for some reason I find your video fascinating and impossible to stop watching. Wish more competitive games had people like you.

[@WTI96]

The only thing I have to say for this “Dang, you’ve had nearly 20 years to get into the pro level legitimately, and you decided to cheat at a 20 year old game. That’s sad asf.

[@giospage]

You thought the creator was gonna see this comment and pin it huh? You it quoted and all

[@WTI96]

@@giospage huh? I didn’t even quote anyone, I just said what I said

[@diegomacias5872]

I love that Mr. Robot shirt. Didn’t know they made them.

[@mrt8bit692]

Hey Altf4, I'm currently learning python and would love to take a look at the source code to the python script you used if you wouldn't mind!

[@awsomesaucers97]

I'm interested in what the actual values are of the non-one peaks and dips shown at around 5:10. When I first saw them, they seemed far too regular to me to have been caused by polling rate issues. Not to mention that the values they appear to take seem very close to 0.707, or 1/sqrt(2). If these are the analog x and y inputs, wouldn't those inputs be corresponding to a 45 degree or other diagonal input? This would make sense to me as many of the programmed SDI input seemed to include diagonals.

[@awsomesaucers97]

@@gregoryford2532 I'm not entirely sure, I'm just going off how he says "they don't exactly hit the peaks every single time" at around 5:20, I assumed he meant the spikes that don't reach a full 1 value. Not sure though, would like to hear from him to see what he meant originally

[@Gurvanson]

Yeah we thought it was out of sync, but actually it's likely just diagonal inputs.

[@wtf17727]

You can also program error into a bot. I bet there are bots already that are indistinguishable from real players, you just have to have a lot of patterns and some inconsistency.

[@awsomesaucers97]

@@wtf17727 that's a good point, I had considered that but at the time of the upload I guess I didn't think the person making the bot would think that deeply. Although it's certainly possible consider how few lines of code it would take to put slight inconsistencies into the final inputs.

[@ohcomeon1111]

This prob happens a lot more than we think

[@Memerath]

1:33 me when i'm trying to play melee but my pet earthworm keeps having seizures on the analog stick

[@ShadowMewto]

I could watch this man read a phone book.

[@urcommonlad6358]

An education on smash online cheating techniques is just what i needed this morning. Thank you AltF4.

[@ThirtyfourEC]

These are always a treat. GG Bork. These give me high hopes for ranked. Would it be possible to implement an input cap so players get automatically banned from online play? Maybe just flag players at the very least before ranked comes out? In certain games developers use speed caps to tell if players are cheating. Half Life has a speed cap for forward movement, not backwards. Certain MMOs have a acceleration cap where unnatural acceleration results in an instant ban or suspension.

[@2600AltF4]

Basically, yea. The same basic metric shown here will be there to identify these kinds of macros.

[@vivecanada1]

Awesome video. Love the John Avon lands on your wall, looks BA.

[@DrPepsidewWBO]

Unrelated but I love your magic land posters in the back Beautiful, that's my favorite Island

[@kapothegod]

completely unrelated but where’d you get that mr robot shirt👀🔥

[@jebusdiabetis]

First time watching channel, love the lands

[@JioLLLL]

i can't believe he was banned just for being better. hopefully one day we can see justice for this honest man

[@atomsk01]

Crazy story! I'm a fan of those Magic; the Gathering land posters in the background too

[@GrimHC]

Whenever a video is edited with microsoft paint it makes it so much easier to understand for me

[@oveia4671]

As someone who has never played Melee and barerly saw any tournaments, where do I start playing? Maybe just starting in sleepy? Any tips on how to play the game?

[@mjl167]

Random, but I absolutely love your SM64 paintings in the background. I wasn't aware that such macros were a thing so this interested me.

[@VegitoBlackityBlack]

My question is how TF is the video clip of the cheater ONLY 19.6 kilobytes????? 0:28

[@ThatLegitBeast]

The replay only records controller inputs and then the launcher plays them back again. Plenty of games do replays like this and are also used to catch cheaters, the first Doom comes to my mind.

[@VegitoBlackityBlack]

@@ThatLegitBeast thanks

[@paol3642]

The french accent when saying gurvan was priceless lmao x)

[@paol3642]

@@gregoryford2532 Well yeah I can tell since I'm french myself x) There's also a little joke in his slippi tag "Aime Touquet" which in french sounds like "M2K"

[@alphamew1773]

unrelated to the video, but where did you get that set of unhinged basics posters? I've been wanting either those or the unstable set for a while

[@Greywander87]

When I saw the input spazzing, my first thought was that it could be a faulty controller. If there's a busted wire or a faulty connection to the stick, it could, for example, cause it to read wildly random inputs if e.g. you point the stick in a specific direction. I actually had an issue kind of like that on one controller, except all it did was that pointing the stick up wouldn't read as going full up. This caused issues where trying to move forward in some games would cause my character to start walking instead of running, or rapidly switch between running and walking. Anyway, based on the analysis later in the video, it looks like the input spazzing is not, in fact, random, and is quite regular, so yeah, probably cheating.

[@thatdude3977]

This confirms how top player are so good also. Check the controllers. That panda 5000 controller DW has is kinda insane.

[@abcder733]

Nah, Arthur's sister is cracked

[@Nicknyte]

Instant Sub. Love you forever AltF4, bans and all.

[@StalinkTz]

what is even the point of cheating on freaking melee online? there isn't even a ranked mode and no one really is watching you so your not gonna impress anyone. that's kinda sad tbh

[@KaitouKaiju]

Clout and streams

[@ROYBGP]

Are those MTG full art land postersin the background? That's sick

[@Hyde472]

My immediate assumption was he was using one of the box controllers rather than a gamecube controller.

[@RC-mx5du]

Love the thumbnail. Banned for Jumpsquat

[@netsofdeath]

Repping the Evil corp shirt. Mr. Robot doesn’t get enough love. Also, Great vid!

[@Zillahgds]

The John Avon posters are so nice when theyre that size

[@Rom0.5]

I'm pretty sure I ran into this guy last time and was pretty suspicious about his SDI !

[@xxwallzxx4509]

I know there are fast players out there with the joystick. Esam is one of those. He also takes pride on it at times. Not sure if there would be people who can reach that level of speed. But there also might be. But it is something said from a person who doesn't know himself on how fast people can actually get with a joystick.

[@arkb0t379]

Tell us more about this Magic deck you're working on though 0:28

[@KuhEssen]

If there are ever hard line cut offs where a program can catch this, the criminals will just go directly below the cut off. Tough to catch all the cheaters

[@hispookyburrito]

The second I heard about performing perfect frame inputs in a online match that can have input lag that's when this got crazy.

[@Spunney]

No input lag in rollback :)

[@roguewizahd]

another great video 👍no wasted space v well edited

[@Maxime-ng7kd]

There you have it folks, Gurvan is French

[@apacheking7256]

bro was really out here spazz di'ing

[@dbap4155]

Cool series keep it up. Quick question about how slippi is tracking mmr regarding quit outs, if a player quits out does that effect mmr of the players?

[@monorail0]

Awesome video! Do you have any ideas behind the greater intent of the cheater? Like do people try to use these mods in tournament and they are testing them on Slippi? Seems like a lot of work to go through for a hardware mod.

[@2600AltF4]

Only speculation, but people tend to cheat when they feel like they "deserve" it. Bork is clearly a mid-level player who has spent a considerable amount of time playing Melee, and tries to cheat to skip ahead.

[@NeZCheese]

@@2600AltF4 Yup. People don't cheat to become better players, people cheat to become better players faster.

[@riluna3695]

Some other mindsets I can imagine would be: 1) Cheating to break a frustrating skill plateau 2) Considering their own clever "workarounds" as part of the "skill" they use to win 3) Wanting to see their name on top of the leaderboards and forgetting that morals exist And perhaps others. There's never just one reason people do things, even if one reason is far more common than the others.

[@asdffff9677]

macros are generally banned in tournaments but no controller rules are enforced, so if someone wanted to, they could use an SDI macro at a super major. It just hasn't really happened yet.

[@asdffff9677]

Also, they are definitely using a box style controller to do this, which is much easier to program for perfect SDI than creating a gamecube controller mod of your own and installing it.

[@spartanlink_047]

First video, nice Unstable land cycle artwork.

[@Nikkerman]

You should post more of these, I think a slippi cop is needed to put cheaters into their place

[@Souleman561]

Great video, even tho I don't play melee at all, I love smash bros and the logic used in the video is spot on

[@hanthonypiano]

I didn't expect to be so intrigued by this vid. Python is so versatile I want to spend way more time with it than I do. Have only really been using it to batch download videos and down res hdris

[@alistairknightsly440]

so just out of curiosity what if mans was playing on a smashbox and just had the inputs

[@vicentesanchezjr.3877]

He's just a z-jumper. He's not cheating haha

[@cryosen]

He just has a really good gaming chair

[@vicentesanchezjr.3877]

@@cryosen that too

[@jay1724]

I can’t see the plains art in the background but I know it’s their seeing the island, swamp, mountain and forest

[@yiayiasboy6312]

Screw the netplay falco, whats that yawgmoth decklist lookin like 👀

[@2600AltF4]

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-04-22-yawgmoth-combo/ :)

[@coolerthanafrieza4726]

Am i the only laughing his ass off every time he used the sample the guy sent him of his name??? 😂😂😂

[@adamsager22]

This is likely unrelated, but back in the super NES days, I had a controller that I bought that had all of the street fighter 2 moves programmed in somehow. Like if I was playing chun Li then I could just hit a button and she would do the thousand leg kick thing. What I'm saying... I guess is that the tech itself isn't really new. Though the way it is implemented is... I guess. Plus the controller had rapid fire and was way overclocked.

[@adangelo]

love these breakdowns but the unlabelled chart axes are driving me insane dude

[@JackOfAllRAIDs]

"...when you want to hit the right stick on the controller..." Hits the left D-pad button. Maybe I need to AltF4 this window.

[@Zegreiart]

Is that Swamp and Mountain land art on your wall?

[@krabborg4454]

Cool vid but I kept looking at the full art Lands behind you, do you play MTG?

[@Luuklin]

Good analysis, not sure I'm convinced this is a macro running on hardware though. Macro programs tend to struggle to keep their inputs synced with a game's framerate, seems this could just be something like AutoHotKey to me.

[@ohcomeon1111]

What's that?

[@calebrobinson6406]

Im no computer science major, but it sounded like if you use software to introduce a macro then controller polling isnt an issue?

[@Luuklin]

@@calebrobinson6406 Macro programs create the same artifacts because they usually can't make exactly one input per frame reliably. Sometimes they'll make two inputs in a frame (only one of which will register) or they'll make one input last two frames. We can't really know if this is a macro program issue or if it's a controller polling issue from the replay file.

[@jessehunter362]

i feel like you can interpret his name as c’monking pretty well

[@TehFoamy]

Nice Unhinged land art on the wall 👌

[@DifferentNerd]

“Gurvan” 😂😂

[@AATGClan]

How do you view button inputs with a replay? I have m'overlay and it works in game but anytime i try and use it when viewing a match. it does not work. what do you have to do to get it to work for replays?

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

Great video. Am I wrong that pro players don’t actually wiggle the stick for smash di? They just wiggle out hitstun and time their smash di?

[@gpmegaman]

Did you consider he was using smashbox? He would be able to get inputs quite faster than your controller.

[@lejaarmy]

Love those John Avon unhinged lands

[@lemonviper]

Why anyone would cheat in this flipping children's party game is beyond me.

[@smashboxdevs1428]

This kind of cheat doesn't require actual hardware. You can create a virtual joystick and implement the macros there. If you're using a keyboard, you can also implement it there by hooking into your OS's keyboard state. You can also use a combination of these 2 - say X360CE, vJoy, Vigem - and implement your cheats there and hook your real controller in through it as well. And at no point do you need to hook into the gamestate data (ie, peek at memory) - since the timings for nearly everything is known - you just program your first button in a sequence, the appropriate wait until the next action, the next action, next wait - etc. Tons of ways to get macros into Slippi, and almost all of them are FREE!

[@chipklip2]

those mario 64 paintings are cool

[@Clout2147m]

Are you familiar with Evil Corp being an actual crime ring at one point? I can't remember who and what it was affiliated with but. Yeah

[@cluelesscardgamer]

It's not about semen being banned or not, it's about wanting to FEEL naughty and like I'm sticking it to the man

[@starryyknight]

3:44 "18 is the average" 18 is the mode, not the average :) other than being pedantic, wanna say this is great video!

[@RonWolfHowl]

*Nitpicks:* At 3:44, you claim to illustrate the average, but you're actually illustrating the mode. At 5:11, you plot the X,Y values and claim they're not exactly perfect. In fact, they are. Diagonal presses don't reach the full value since they're bounded by a circle, instead reaching cos(45 deg) = sin(45 deg) = 1/sqrt(2), or around 70.7% on both axes.

[@2600AltF4]

The first nitpick is totally correct. I think in my head I meant to say "typical" value or something. Mode would be most correct, but a bit technical. The second one, I sort of glazed over the details of this since it was getting really technical and kind of didn't matter. But you're right that the peaks of the graph aren't the inconsistent part, it's actually the pattern of them over time.

[@ClashBluelight]

Wait, aren't mean, median, and mode all called the averages? So wouldn't calling a mode an average be correct?

[@RonWolfHowl]

@@ClashBluelight They aren’t all averages, only the mean (aka the “arithmetic mean”) is. One name that _does_ apply to all of them though is “measures of central tendency”.

[@RonWolfHowl]

@@ClashBluelight In everyday speech people do sometimes call the median the “average” though, for instance. That’s why it’s best to avoid the term “average” if you mean something more specific.

[@ClashBluelight]

@@RonWolfHowl Really? I was taught that those three made up a group called the averages. Guess my school was wrong.

[@Narcomoeba1]

Are those magic the gathering basic lands hanging on your wall?

[@hydra4370]

while this is obviously cheating, it looks more like an unskilled player using an SDI macro to make up for their poorer performance. They probably thought "if it's possible humanly, it shouldn't matter if I do it digitally", but the smash community and especially melee is all about natural feats/ and integrity. I think it's ultimately meaningless because it's an online ladder but should obviously never be allowed locally. Some people are more focused on the end result, and not the hours of grinding it takes to get there naturally.

[@JaneViolet_]

But the cheated SDI they're using _isn't_ humanly possible. It's not just putting them on the same level as top humans, it's going well past it.

[@EnaBBQ]

I don’t play smash but I was wondering, could them be playing in a keyboard? Mapping directional keys to the analog. Since with a keyboard you can press multiple keys at once, those reactions look less crazy

[@OhSoTiredMan]

Imagine them using WASD and the arrow keys at the same time 😂

[@Spunney]

Clearly not using digital judging by the rest of their inputs