Antenna Test - Incredible Thermal Imaging Camera -

[@mattdixon5299]

This was flippin’ cool! Seeing each individual element heat up was fascinating. Really backs up the theory of the antenna design too. Top experimenting mate!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Awesome, thank you!

[@thomasperina2990]

Hello Lord Callum: Thank you for this terrific video. When I had my automotive repair shop we would use this types of equipment for locating parasitic draws, cylinder temperature testing, cooling system analysis, & on my rf equipment they are terrific for troubleshooting components on PC boards etc. I consider this tool essential for electronic inthuseists, & also in the automotive repair field. God Bless Cal, & my best wishes to Wendy and the dogs. TMP, Unit 22 from N.J.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Ah! Brilliant.

[@loughkb]

People often comment on my balun, unun, and common mode choke experiments about thermal heating of the cores due to eddy currents. I have a thermal camera, but QRO for me is around 40 watts. ha. But you have power, so looking at the thermal data on a common mode choke of different core types would be a valid and valuable bit of information.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Agreed Kevin. Nice.

[@robertmeyer4744]

Great fun Callum ! I have been doing Thermal Imaging for some years now. Has many uses . Even medical uses . they are very sensitive and auto calabreat if that setting on. They can detect a very Subtle difference in temp. That why you have to read the chart . With my work as a electrician in the USA ,Thermal Imaging is a very valuable tool . Use for testing load centers and transformers and many points of heat . Finds bad connections very easy . For your radio work this is handy for testing you DX 10 and DX 50 wire . Any coils you have in the system. Any Balun or UNUN in the system. Great for toroids looking at core temperature. You can use it on your Acom amp look at 2 tubes and see if even heating of tubes. Once you get that 20 meter yagi back up take some pics of choke Balun you made and the dipole it self. You can use it in the office or shack or home in winter from inside to find cold drafts and help fix them. from outside a home you can look for heat loss and check insulation. So many HVAC uses for that camera. Fire fighters use them looking for fire hotspots or finding people in smoke filled room. You can check your car with it as well. Test radiator and cooling system. This is one of the best tools we have that can do so many different things . Cheers from NY !

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, I'm looking forward to having a good play!

[@forextraderradioman]

Thank you for this video. I also have a thermal image camera (Uni-T UTi260B) and it opened my eyes when I examinated the 12V DC power line distribution ... fuses, power pole connecters and so on. vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO :)

[@Archiewinter920]

I got one of these to use for fault finding. It's a great aid to see what is happening beyond the visual spectrum.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Ah nice

[@AK4TF]

Callum, very interesting video to see. Cool to see the elements heating up as you are transmitting. Very excited to see you get back to the antenna building and the 4 square. I just received my parts from DXE to build my own today for 40m. Need to make some radial plates, find some support poles for the DXC Sig 9 poles I'll be using. I was hoping 1 1/4" pipe would fit the inside of the mast, but I forgot you made them different than the Classic. So back to the drawing board on that. 73 Tony

[@DXCommanderHQ]

If Sig 9, then see if you can buy the Sig 9 ground post. Fits perfectly (38mm)

[@RoyalEngineersVeteran]

Hi cal I’ve shared this video on my channel Sapper Prepper UK 🇬🇧 and gave your channel a plug to my viewers, Love the content mate I’m a big fan

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Awesome thank you!

[@W7EDM]

Very informative. It's really amazing how rf finds It's path. I always suspected it was most efficient on the correct leg of a multi element antenna but this clearly demonstrates the rf going directly to the proper element. Amazing

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, exactly. Lovely isn't it :)

[@rippleeffect3910]

Yes, test everything! All the things Callum. Especially temp on things that may be on the edge of inefficient. Radiators, inductors, etc.

[@g0fvt]

I was hoping to see a circle of temperature rise around the radial field but realistically they are not only buried but the current is shared... would be interesting to see your outdoor junction cabinet at high power with the door closed....

[@jackK5FIT]

Yep the EFHW idea was the first thing I thought of. It would be interesting to see the element ends too.

[@REKlaus]

That poor little feed wire on the SO239 gets a little warm too. Thanks for another interesting video. Merry Christmas to you all. K1AUS

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Thanks, you too!

[@edwardholland36]

Very interesting video, Callum, as always. One thing to be aware of with IR based measurements is the emissivity of the material in the picture. A piece of aluminium plate (low emissivity) will typically not show anything like the actual temperature, whereas plastics, carbon fiber etc. having high emissivity will be detected with more accuracy. At work, a 150C aluminium hotplate "looked" stone cold! The experiment ideas are good ones. Transformer/balun and choke cores would be interesting targets. Thanks again, Ed KO6BLM

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes. I have discovered that. The trick is to paint the surface.

[@timdbl7804]

Very interesting, Callum! Yes, it would be interesting to see whether it shows the current distribution on antennas 🙂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

We shall see

[@Valleybaptistmedia]

Callum, this is super interesting. I would like to see measurements along the transmission line (coax) back to the shack, but it might be impossible because every band would be different. When building FM radio stations, I have used electronic EMC measurement tools, like an RF sniffer, using a probe around the transmission line. It's about the only way to measure magnetic and electric field "hot spots." At that point, we'll install giant chokes around the hard line and re-check. The 2K to 10K FM power levels are a bit more of a challenge. Keep up the good work. 73 Dave NF6P

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes. I want to see that too.

[@1967donkey]

Interesting video as always Cal. As an M7 I thought you were supposed to give your call sign at least once when testing. Back in the day you could get an led to put on a CB antenna which illuminated when you transmitted.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Buy a R&D licence. £600 for a year.

[@vlad-st]

That shiny metal plate at the base reflects the infrared light from the sky (that's why it is so "cold"). You need to put something black (or some tape) to that to measure the temperature corectly. Also the base of the fiber pole heating up is the sign of heat transfer from your shiny base metal plate.

[@billybiker1383]

Great video Callum, would be interested to see your 20m beam 😮

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes.. I need to work out if I can lift the phone up.. Needs extremely light wind so it doesn't wobble around..

[@billybiker1383]

@@DXCommanderHQI did something similar and ended up with two bits of stiff wire acting as a cradle to keep it straight. I won’t lie my heart was in my mouth throughout the entire process when inspecting a high level cable, but we found a hot spot causing interference. Have fun Billy M0WJB/79SW101

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@billybiker1383 Yes.. Can't just use a piece of string!

[@stephenwade8093]

I like Rolly's idea, look at the end of your wire and see the action. to raise the camara if the drone wont lift it the attach it to one of your poles and do it that way.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I like that too.

[@UDX-340]

This is very fun to watch , thanks ...

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Thank you too!

[@gtretroworld]

I’m still waiting to play with one of these as i think my good mate(the rat buster)is now sponsored by hik . I have used the Gun and Spotter scopes in the past and they amaze me. I really want to try this at component level but this was fun seeing all that energy at the bottom of an antenna, maybe whack it on a long stick or on one of your poles and check for hot spots could be interesting and fun.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Send my regards to Jeff!

[@gtretroworld]

@ Will do, i guess you’ve seen his channel then. He was in here a few days ago eating dog biscuits, he loves them.😂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@gtretroworld Depends on the brand. Not so keen on Winalot!

[@gtretroworld]

@@DXCommanderHQHe’s definitely not that fussy..🤣

[@Richard_OKeeffe]

Hi Calm, we had a chat about thermal imaging at the Martin Lynch open day the other week, I knew it would be an interesting experiment. The thermal imaging also gives some assurance that a DX commander can handle over 1.5kW .

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes!

[@j.p.thearmoredchef]

Very interesting Cal! I definitely would be interested in seeing more of the element ends/whole elements under power. I haven’t played with any power yet. But it’s great to know what these thing can take. But I definitely have no fear of hurting my classic with my barefoot Ft-710

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Indeed. at 100-200W you are good to go.

[@radiotowers1159]

Interesting Calum, a longer shot of the 3/4 element should show the current peaks on the element bottom to top. Also a long shot of a dipole being used on a harmonic should show current peaks also in the same way.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, I like that too - assuming we can get enough resolution on the camera.. Or fly the drone up and down..?

[@Hamradio101]

Cal just a simple one mate, I would the temperature of the coax/pl259 coming out the back of the amp as there is virtually no losses there. Am curious to see what you do next as always Ray

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Back of amp.. Yes. I think we'll roll half a dozen mini experiments into one.

[@loughkb]

Just got to the end of the vid. I don't know if the drone is a good idea. It's processors might crash in that RF field. But that's just a guess. I know when I play with a magloop in the RV, even at only 2.5 watts, it crashes the processor in my solar charge controller that's a few feet away. heh.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Hiya Kevin my old friend.. Well, I was actually thinking the phone or IR Hikmicro device might fail too. Neither did. But we'll soon find out! LOL

[@don_n5skt]

Not sure it is possible but if you could fly it on the drone and fly up the wire with the device to see it as you move up. Thanks Callum. Interesting device. Sorry posted this before the end but yes.

[@don_n5skt]

Oh, and you could you set this up when you are running one of your live streams and see if Callum heats up while he is working a pile up 🤣

[@DXCommanderHQ]

We're going to try, yes.. With a live-feed..

[@mikesradiorepair]

Full power into the 100 foot run of the cheapest RG58 you can find on 10M or 6M. See how good of a heating element it makes for use as a back up heater for the shack. 🙂 Mike KC3OSD

[@Dennis35793]

Thx Cal !

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Any time!

[@stargazer7644]

You can't tell the temperature of the metal plate with this. Metals are mirrors at thermal IR. They reflect the temperatures of things around them. If you want to know the temp of a metal plate you need to put a piece of black electrical tape on it and that will show the plate temp.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So the alloy is a tumbled matt-finish. The PL259 has a gloss coating. Why do we see the PL259 heating up...

[@joemccormack6162]

The cold temperatures visible in your IR image, showing values as low as -20°C, are reflections from the sky, not the actual temperature of the metal surface. This occurs because shiny metal has a very low emissivity (close to 0), making it act like a mirror for infrared radiation. In this case, the metal is reflecting the cold temperature of the sky. If you move the camera or your body (even though you’re not holding it in this case), reflections of your body heat could also appear, creating a hot spot in the ima ge that shifts as you move. To get a more accurate temperature reading of the metal, paint it with a high-emissivity coating, such as black paint (emissivity close to 1). This will reduce reflections and measure the true surface temperature of the metal. For instance, instead of showing -20°C from sky reflections, the painted metal might display its actual temperature, likely closer to 10°C on that day. Similarly, black plastic coverings on coax cables and wires, with an emissivity of approximately 0.95, will produce more accurate and detailed IR images. By manually setting the temperature span on your camera to a range such as 10°C to 35°C, you can further enhance the contrast and clarity of your measurements. This adjustment is particularly useful for experiments like yours, which did identify power losses as heat in the wires it can also identify poor connections , do you need heavier wire? . By increasing emissivity of the metal parts by painting and adjusting the span, you’ll achieve more accurate and informative results. Is the power losses higher in the first portion of the wire ? I look forward more experiments from you with your new Ir camera , you could try comparing different types of wires in a horizontal dipole of different lengths say a 1/4 wave and a 3/4 wave low off the ground to let you capture a image easily on the 10m band so the wire lengths are manageable .

[@stargazer7644]

@@DXCommanderHQ I don't think you are. The finish doesn't much matter in my experience. Both finishes will show a reflection. Matte metal will just be a bit fuzzier. You're just seeing reflections from other things in the PL259s. At 7:24 notice the top of the PL259 is dark purple even though the cable is warm - it is reflecting the cold sky just as the top plate is. The bottom is orange as it is reflecting the warmer ground. I think the PL259s in the box are showing the glowing cables around them. Note at 12:25 the PL259s on the cables you're not transmitting through look just like the one on the hot cable you are transmitting through. Another thing to be aware of is the temperature readings are only correct if you've calibrated the camera for the emissivity of the material being measured. It varies between materials. Play around with the camera with different materials. For example window glass is completely opaque at longwave IR (but will show a reflection) but black trash bags are transparent.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@joemccormack6162 Excellent description of what is happening!

[@kj6155]

Very interesting video..but I have a question.... The DXC elements are not switched or isolated based on TX freq; therefore, the 1Kw was, theoretically, feeding ALL elements not just, say, the 10M element. Since the other elements are not resonant and are, theoretically, reflecting more power vice radiating RF, shouldn’t they, too, have shown a thermal increase as the reflected power is dissipated as heat? Would love to understand this further as I was expecting all elements to show a thermal increase.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Because of the incorrect impedance of the other elements, they will collectively be soaking up probably 1% of the available power.

[@M7BVV-Phil]

Hi Cal, it would be interesting if you were to download the thermal imaging app to compare the two!?!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Erm.. There's more than one app?

[@davidcoupe8097]

Hi Cal. The reason your not getting a good reading of the driven plates is because of the aluminium surface. To get a good reading of the plates is to put black tape on the plates or paint them with non matallic paint. i use to do thermograpphic serverys on HV Powerlines upto 500kv. Want to see something melt. Cheers David VK3DJC

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So the matt alloy plates are not heating but the SHINY PL259 does show some heating?

[@Archiewinter920]

That's some video I'd love to see!

[@davidcoupe8097]

@@DXCommanderHQ You have enough area in the plates not to show up any heating effect for the 1 min, of key down. PL259 will show some heating with being transfer from the coax and the pig tail from the connector to the plate. Keep up the good work Cal.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I have discovered the reason and it's too long to explain here! :)

[@g1cpu]

I would be interested to see if you could see any heating effect at the ends of a half wave dipole, where each end is wrapped around an egg insulator, many of us use them and leave the endings dangling. I read somewhere if you tie / solder the bare ends back to the element that this would help eliminate any coronal discharges. So in theory would this reduce heat at the egg insulator too?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

If the loop around the egg connector was a closed loop (soldered back on itself) the heating will be less.. But I want to see that myself..!

[@johanwamokolobetsi6094]

I would like to see if there is any difference on a driven element on a qubical quad is the wire the same temperature all round or is there a peak heat at the ¼ wave piont from the coax and even the ½ wave points but any loop fed antenna would be interesting because the power has to go somewhere because its a dead short electrically 🤔

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Now that IS interesting.

[@1crazynordlander]

What are your radials of different lengths showing as far as temperature look like during transmitting?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yeah. I get the feeling we won't see anything because they're in the earth a wee bit. Will see if we can detect anything..

[@garycapson6713]

I would be interested in seeing what shows up looking at your drone looks like after a couple of minutes of flying. (as it fly's , start to finish of the flight)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes!

[@gordonpatalla5956]

Well done Calm, I'd be very interested to see how much heat is developed in a BALUN. Something simple like a 1:1 on a dipole. It would be a good lesson on how much energy is lost through matching circuits. Keep up the good work Calm, I love your videos. 73 Gord ve7uy

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, I like that idea too.

[@dienadel30]

I wonder how it does for electronics. Might be useful for finding faults on PCBs.?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Good question!

[@edppdsc]

Curious about a center fed dipole and the effect of rf on metal roofs. I run only 100 watts and the center connects of the dipole is about 10 feet away.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Erm.. Chances are the metal roof is not resonant but it would make a fine reflector for say 40m NVIS.

[@robpegs]

Do you remember the little light that could be added to a mobile whip, that illuminated when in TX. .could you try to light up some xmas lights

[@michaelltnv6741]

Awesome review Cal, I did run 1k into a dipole to see if it would light a light diode about 30 years ago, and it would burn them up fast. I used shrink tumbling to make it tight on the Aluminum dipole. It got very hot! That is really great idea. If someone had a cable to run it upto the top of the mast. Then see what the temperature would be. I figured it would way to hot. Test also to see if there is any dB loss from a warm day to a below freezing freezing outside. Hot days I always figure if the cable overheats, I would lose dB. I always wonder if the temperature affected the dB.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Copied.

[@snokones]

I would like to see the trap for 80m on the 12.4m and how it gets when you put 1.2 through it.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yep. Me too.

[@ZiggleFingers]

is the pole heating up from contact with the plate?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Who knows.

[@robertmitchum2972]

See if you can see a “Hot Spot” at the resonant point of a non resonant antenna. Would be interesting to see if you can tuna a non resonant antenna this way.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes!

[@kd5smf]

Interesting Calum, your temp in F=76 to 80 degrees. Not too surprised there. I'm not very familiar with thermal cameras. However, you might like to do an experiment on several different Baluns, & Ununs. Example, I use a 9:1 LDG UNUN with a 80m full wave skywire antenna. The unun is designed for up to 200 watt output. Your amplifier would most likely melt one of those should you test to failure. Have fun & Merry Christmas & Happy DX :) kd5smf-Tulsa OK.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes. Need to melt something!

[@nvrumi]

How much current was in the coax and wire?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

No idea

[@Rubedo777]

You are a clever bugger Calum,,, this antenna alchemy is too much for me.😵‍💫 😳 If my new pole for my vertical antenna experiments don’t give some better results… I’m going to use it for fishing and pack up.73. 💙 🥺

[@DXCommanderHQ]

HAHA

[@RobB_VK6ES]

I think it would be interesting to see the heat produced by an antenna matching unit at various degrees of mismatch. IMHO far too many are relying on a matching unit and a crap radiator. Guys are regularly bragging about matching insane VSWR on thier Xiegu portable radio but fail to realise where most of the power is delivered.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Fascinating..!

[@bigphillAchtung]

id like to see any heating in baluns/ununs :)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Good idea.

[@brianfields4479]

very interesting to watch on screen, that , which we cannot see, fascinating. regard radials, its such a diverse subject obviously , i have only done tests regard gain only, done 40 tests with on ground against elevated , both tuned. using on air and sdr,s around the world, and rbn results. on 20m, on average 1.9 s points gain every time on the elevated over ground radials. thats all i know hi hi

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Great stuff Brian. Possibly depends on soil type.

[@oncomics1128]

Christmas lights on 1kw+ :) I think there is a reflection from the driven plate. Is the driven pigtail regular wire? Oh! End effect! I would love to see that. Does anyone make a camera gadget that can detect watts RF?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes. Pigtail is DX10

[@tinysolarshack9615]

Hello Callum, Bryan KC8HPS here. Interesting video. Perhaps for the difference between feed point and wire end temperature, how about conducting the test at night or very low light. I would suspect the difference in temperature plus removing solar radiation as a factor you might see better what’s going on. Thoughts? Cheers 73

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I'm getting conflicting reports about this metal plate. Thing is, it's a matt finish and other components that are shiny *are* heating up. For instance PL259.. Strange one.

[@tinysolarshack9615]

@ I suspect your readings will very by the amount of mass, and surface area a component has I.e. how well it can store or dissipate heat.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I have discovered the reason for this.. But there's not enough space in the margin to contain it. Another video!

[@darz3]

before you redo the test, what about the calibration

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Calibration is done every 10-seconds auto-magically (according to destructions)

[@GH0ST369]

The pole looks to be absorbing the heat, not really radiating it as a source.

[@sm3ttz]

make a balun and push some W thru that. Bet it will get hot.

[@W0CES]

Time for a new Drone. DJI has one with FLIR camera.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Send one.

[@LMGGPMG]

...I Got the Balls ...😂😂😂👍 I did 1kw on a 28mhz quarter wave grounmounted vert on stranded wire with radials and the top 6 inch melted and floped, I used solid core and it took a minute key down.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Woo-Hoo.. OK.

[@garyclark4930]

Nice video. Your thermal imaging camera gives you a good idea of what's going on. What you're getting off your mast is reflection. The surface of the material makes a difference in how it appears. The expensive cameras have adjustments in the setting for the different surfaces. I used to preform surveys of electrical panels in our power plant. We used a $10,000 Flier camera. I think this is an affordable alternative. I wouldn't mind having one. Gary KF6EWO

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Thanks for the tips!

[@akiddoo8113]

Kewl! Or should we say hot?

[@highflowhighflow9896]

reflected areas give misreadings on thermal cams

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So the alloy is a tumbled matt-finish. The PL259 has a gloss coating. But the PL259 doesn't suffer the same and DOES show heating up..

[@galileo_rs]

Thermal cameras have a problem with high emissivity (reflective) materials like aluminium.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So the alloy is a tumbled matt-finish. The PL259 has a gloss coating. But the PL259 doesn't suffer the same.

[@galileo_rs]

@@DXCommanderHQ Top of the connector shows -C, bottom is at +15. Same on the bottom plate, one section is at +15 the rest is -C which is obviously physically impossible.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I have discovered the reason for this.. But there's not enough space in the margin to contain it. Another video!

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

You've been huffing and puffing a lot more noticeably lately Callum. Look after yourself buddy.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

No.. That's the audio compressor lifting up extreme quiet.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@DXCommanderHQ Good! 👍

[@MONTY-YTNOM]

LT2T

[@w8lvradio]

Even a dummy load one of those oil filled jobs would be interesting look at the heat signature. As would looking at any of your transceivers. Finally if the IR signature can be picked up from a distance, it would be interesting to point at some HOA or in your case council Karen's to measure their anger signature... 😂 73 DE W8LV BILL

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Great suggestion!

[@davidm.wilson3736]

I’m am more like my dad than I care to admit. The one that gets me is, if you drain the water bottle, fill the damn thing up. Why would you put in back in the fridge empty. Arg

[@DXCommanderHQ]

That's a very odd comment! LOL

[@davidm.wilson3736]

@ Callum, apologies. This comment was in response to something Ape and Jim made in their video about being like their parents. Again , apologies as it might have been a bit off hand without context. Happy Christmas Be safe David

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@davidm.wilson3736 Don't worry.. I knew is would have been something!

[@davidm.wilson3736]

@ Thanks Mate. Happy holiday to you, the family, your workers and friends. My DX Commander is working great. Love it David

[@JonathanPhillips27]

Black reflects ir radiation

[@joakimlindblom384]

Do the thermal test in the dark... First from long distans and the part that get warm oyu can take a closer look at ;) SA7JAL

[@paulwynneroberts1731]

This should be really cool. Merry Christmas Callum. 2W0IEP 73